#cybermanolo

I have a question that's maybe outside of your scope, but an the dramas I see take at least some liberty with historical fashion (I'm thinking for example of the males' facial hair). Is there any drama that really aims to be completely accurate? Or I'd love to find a documentary that depicts some pre-revolution era fashion. One that truly reproduces the fashion, even if it's not attractive to our modern eyes. Thank you!

Of recent dramas, Court Lady and Palace of Devotion have costumes and makeup that look like they are based on historical extant garments and/or primary sources, so are plausible clothes for the era these dramas are set in. But I don’t think any drama can really make its mission to be completely historically accurate in its costuming, because as you say in your ask, it’s not a documentary about historical clothing. It’s a drama, and in the end, it’s going to tell a fictional story, and costumes are a tool to tell that story. I’ve also said before in this post that there is really no such thing as historical accuracy, there are only dramas that incorporate more or fewer historically-based elements into their dramas. Even then, dramas may cherry pick what to be accurate about for aesthetics.

Yes, obviously the drama producers will sometimes share the historical sources they’ve consulted in the design of the drama, especially when they’re trying to sell their drama as being “historically accurate”. But even then I would hesitate to entirely “trust” that claim because it will be done for the purpose of promoting the drama, so they’re likely going to hide the aspects of the design that they took creative liberties with.  

This is a good post on things to look out for to see determine how much artistic liberty a drama might be taking with its costuming.

Honestly kinda weird if it's a trope, sorry but not my kink XD

Kind of funny tho

I have no idea

if someone has a solid meta or theory on this, I’ve yet to find it, but I have like, a vague, not fully-formed opinion?

which is basically that the one of the main elements of this genre (specifically danmei) is irreverence for one or more taboo (or maybe more accurately: prohibited, unacceptable?) subjects  

I mean the very definition of “kink” is a sharp twist or curve in something that is otherwise straight (no pun intended) so in a more general way, it is usually something outside of widely accepted/perpetuated “norms” or “social mores” 

just as an example, wei wuxian’s demonic cultivation (raising & using the dead for his own ends) is outside the accepted norms and social mores for a culture that treats death with reverence, care, and respect

so groping in a coffin is... probably less likely to be seen as outside the social mores in a society that doesn’t hold the same reverence for death

I mean, the whole “your kink is not my kink” is not an extension of “ship and let ship” it’s actually a reminder that 3k+ distinct cultures in the world will all have different kinks because they all have different social mores

and all fiction is a result of culture in which it’s written. This is why danmei novels rarely ever (I can’t think of a single one, actually) have half naked men in suggestive poses on the cover; danmei is generally accepted to be fiction, as in imaginary, as in not something that does or can exist in real life (so the depictions of the characters reflect that - even when you do get them, they are stylized 2d art)

meanwhile, you won’t find a single RJ Scott novel for sale without a photo of some dude showing his nipples on the cover, which in my opinion, is more of a reflection on the western audience’s attachment to fictional characters as real people  

chibisquirt said: @cybermanolo it is SO DUMB and SO FUN, it is like Tamora Pierce wrote Pirates of the Caribbean-style nonsense into Wuxia setting! I love it!

cybermanolo said: Damn honestly after the clusterfuck that The Wolf turned out to be I was wary, but this seems tempting… 🤤

Legend of Fei is extremely fun! I haven’t seen The Wolf so I can’t speak to that one, but Pirates of the Caribbean is the perfect comparison: LoF doesn’t take itself too seriously, but it commits to the premise. There are definitely heavy emotional beats but Zhao Liying and Wang Yibo are so fun together that it balances out in my opinion. If you like adventure and unfolding intrigue, I think you will like this. If you like a varied cast of characters where the women are allowed to be strong in different ways, I think you will like this. Most of all if you like a main couple where she’s fighty and he’s desperately in love, I think you will like this.

I've seen it several times in c-dramas, and I gather that the words mean something close to 'holy woman'. But every time I encounter it, it's in relation to a country or a people. It's always 'the saintess of - this place/tribe etc-'. So I wonder if there's something more to it.

Examples include Xiaotang from evernight, Haitang Duo Duo from Joy of life, and Sha Hualing from Scum Villain. Can you help?

hm... i just met Xiaotang tonight. I’m on ep 27 of Ever Night now! And i haven’t watched JoL(i’m actually on ep 7ish? but don’t remember because i stopped back in march and forgot to pick it back up...) or SVSSS yet. 

You’re right that the words mean holy + woman. I think that says most of what you’re trying to get at but maybe if we talk about the character 圣 a little more, it’ll be of help to you. 

圣 can mean holy or sacred on its own. It is used with the character for person (人) to mean saint or sage. A person of great skill can be known as the 圣 of something. One example is tang dynasty poet Du Fu who was called 诗圣. In some sense, it takes whatever it’s paired with and shoves that thing on a pedestal. [also note that this is the same 圣 for JC’s name 三毒圣手 with 圣手 meaning a highly skilled practitioner of some sort]

So what is a 圣女? If you look up 圣女 in pleco, it gives you the Virgin Mary or a female saint/martyr (e.g Joan of Arc). It can be a holy woman or a priestess of something (pleco PLC definition). It can be a woman of impeccable virtue, someone soon to become an empress/consort, or refer to a goddess. (the latter three are from pleco hanyu da cidian definition) 

In my experience, 圣女 in wuxia and xianxia are all females with a specific role of some sort within a cult, religion, or tribe. I think of it as a woman shoved on a pedestal who is expected to perform to those expectations and serve whatever group she is the 圣女 of (hand waves about great power and great responsibility and sprinkles in great beauty into it. like i said, pedestal). The implication, to me,  is that her group exists outside of standard Chinese virtues (think either jianghu where 义 reigns supreme or some sort of confucian 仁-based morality).