#capitol lore

- The Snow -

Doylist

The tragedy of pears and the elm. A critic to gay representation in Collins saga (Originaly Trilogy + TBOSAS + New Book). 

Watsonian

1. Homosexuality in the Capitol (The start of everything, or why I belive Capitol was NOT a lgbtq+ friendly place during TBOSAS era + this the post we joke of my prediction).

2. Homophobia in Capitol and the Districts (This PART of an answer I give to Grace in an ask game, so there's a bit of snowbottom at the start that yall can ignore to see my thoughts over the subject).

3. Skull for Homosexuality in Panem (A guide for my ideas on this subject, eventually I should do posts explainning those but yall are free to ask about the points exposed there).

4. Trans Experience in Panem (I answer a question Gaulnon did to me about my thoughts over trans experience in Panem).

5. Transphobia and Trasness in Panem (Haymitch CEO share some dope ideas about the subject and I talk about them too).

-Lucretia H.

[ The heiress of blood. A small but significant scandal that tarnished the family's name for a couple of years, until the resolution came and fortune favoured Lucretia, the unfair winner, rumoured to have committed forgery, theft, blackmail and even murder, according to the wildest rumours.

° I’ve said before how I personally don’t think the Capitol in TBOSAS was lgbtq+ friendly at all, while I don’t think there was criminalization of the act, there was too much rejection and censorship of queer expression, so I think film and television were governed by a code that dictated what was decent to show on screen (which became more radical after the war) and a common thing that was not shown was the depiction of queer couples, so I think one of the first things he started to smuggle in were independent erotic films about queer couples.

°this relates to I think he wanted to be an actor, and in fact he studied at an arts college for a while but ended up dropping out because of financial problems, so that film thing started because he was very fond of that medium and probably many of his classmates ask his help (he probably appear in some films even).

°I think Pluribus probably did drag.

Have a good day !!! :3

REALLY CURIOUS THO ABT YOUR OC. BC WHY U NEED LOOK FOR THAT INFO. OFC ONLY IF U WANT TELL. Now thats indeed funny as hell and what a coincidence... To many THOUGHTS.

Abt the Harringtons IM VERY HAPPY TO TELL, I loveee their total canon lore (I made up that shit), probably u have see more posts abt it bc lately for some reason l been in a plinystrabo mood, that its a ship I made accidentally one day and now me and vicó we are a bit too much into them lmao but before talk abt lore I would like talk about how all the Harrington conspiration born in first place and why its exactly that Plinystrabo happen, I think I say it before but I would do it again bc I think its funny

So it all start bc Pup it was one of the first mentors that got me curious, I think this was mostly for two reasons: 1) Despite tbosas being located in post war Capitol we barely meet any character that was part of the military, that fight for real in the front, so the tiny mention of "commander harrington" from the navy really catch my attention 2) I really consider curious we got Pup and Pliny Sir dilemma mention while we got Coriolanus and General Crassus conflicts going on (and on a similar note Sejanus and Strabo issues), more bc at least people its ALWAYS SAYING HOW MUCH CORIOLANUS ITS CRASSUS 2.0, so him really having such tone of pity for guy that his father want made him a copy of himself it was something else to me, I call it joking the trinity of issues with your father.

This provoke than later when I start to think in the Plinth family interactions with others families in the Capitol, I consider that doesn't sound crazy at all that Commander Harrington may meet Strabo Plinth that manufacturer munitions, to me made sense and I go from there doing many hcs and all end with plinystrabo borning at some point ah, but lets go nooow with some more specific data.

FIRST I SHOULD UPLOAD THIS FROM A LONG TIME AGOOO LMAOOOO but I think I was waiting got any idea abt pup' wife but oh well, may I should accept that may not happen lmao

The names I give to Pliny parents have something to do with the plinys (the real ones, the old and young) but I totally forgot what connection I did lmao, so those are the names just bc, whats relevant abt them itsss pliny' dad was a warrant officer in the navy, his mom work there too but as an accountant, they meet in a dance of new year festivities and they danceee together and they fall in love and they stay married until death till them a part <3

This relevant bc its part of Pliny sad arc lmao, but moving with Pliny he have a very good relationship with his parents and its very grateful of their efforts bc the thing with the Harrington its they are kinda new money, they were a bit of high middle class, so actually they aren't part of those old circles of old white money in Capitol, which influence a lot bc Pliny' parents honestly push him a lot in pressure bc the idea was always that Pliny could get there!!! HE JUST NEEDS THE RIGHT CONTACTS AND DO THE RIGHT WORK!!! (This made for example the infamous incident that kept crassus bitter at night for years and its pliny did not study in the academy -and pup studying here get him very happy! and proud! and why pup could get the grades for mentors thing bc his dad its like bonk him in keep his shoes clean and study, he would scream too if discover pup once inside its using his uniform as a mess tbh- but he do a crazy amount of extra curricular activities which include the boxing club, bc the Academy along other prestigious schools were part of a famous torneo and basically Crassus was part of the boxing club, and Pliny beat him, break his perfect record and why CRASSUS WAS HIS HATER).

So a lot abt Pliny' own background have to do with assimilation (guy its code switching as crazy), abt Pliny having his own struggles to deal with Capitol society and all of those impact a lot in later what will be the plinystrabo and his mixed child pup and his divorce with penelope, but abt Pliny and Pup I will talk now, Im gladdd too u like my silly draw I really want draw theeeem <3

I go with vibes honestly but Pup at least read to me as a very ankward teen, like hes an idiot lmao but to me he feel more ankward, and my head go to one of my fav tropes thats charming dad x loser son, to me they have the potential, so a lot of their relationship its that Pliny its overwhalming too "mr perfect" (he didnt have much choice abt it if he really want like ascend in Capitol society, yk yk yk very talk in certain way, not shit talk in his face people like CRASSUS, had to look in certain way + the pression of his parents and his family, it not affect him negatively in his opinion, and it dont, its a complicate bc he really no feel as a failure never and have a lot of self confidence but also its a bit abt how pliny have to do MORE and how thats a thing very exhausting), hes very friendly, very sociable, extreme handsome (the fancast its idris elba lmao if u mind, thanks to vico big brain), like very good at a lot of shit, and bisexual (THIS SUPER RANDOM BUT I MENTION BC ITS A THING THAT TORTURE PUP TOO), which made Pup scream and cry bc guy have a bit of inferiority complex, he try to be cool like his dad, then get his teen phase of "I wanna be my own persona, MY OWN SELF" but cant like really do that much (no that his dad really want him to be a copy of himself, its simply pliny get this "I know how you need do things, exactly like ME" which made many confusions with pup bc hes then like "SO MY DAD HATEEEE MEEE", this hard bc his mom sometimes would agreed that pliny its not giving a good advice so pup go screaming more bc HE KNEWWW, HIS DAD ONLY WANT CRITIZE HIMMM which again dont but u know be a teen its like that, guy get afraid of dissapoint others) and its strangely embarrased of be seen with his dad and will hiss if someone pull on him a snow of ("you are / you look like your dad"), ITS COMPLICATE BETWEEN THEEEEM.

I could say honestly too a lot abt Pliny but lets go abt his marriage with Penelope, she also work in the navy, Im seeing if shes like an engineer in the submarine partss (oh I FORGOT BUT THE HARRINGTON GET LIKE BUSSINESS IN NAVY ASSETS, why he meet strabo at some point), very dope girl, the problem its they get together to soon and confuse things a bit. They were better friends, even coworkers if you say, they really spend a lot of time together before she go to specialized into her area and Pliny go more typical in want ascend in ranks, like the trainning they meet and Pliny its a romantic in the heart, I think he really want in the deep a big family and got that "magical love story" of his parents for himself but like nah as romantic partnerts they didnt work so well, that marriage only didnt break before bc took them a while recognize it and then dark days, not best time lmao to ask a divorce and honestly, pliny was sure it wouldnt happen I MEAN IF WE LIVE WAR TOGETHER WITH OUR BABY, THATS NOT HAPPENING (it happen lmao, pup was like 8 so he did a bit of drama and then go very neutral abt it, I think bc he live more time with his parents separate than them together, bc even in the war Pliny was like commander, he was not exactly at Capitol so wasnt really that much surprise when they sit him down and explain he would spend some holidays with his mom family and others with his dad family, hes like whatever but the big contra of that its why HAPPEN THE PLINY MATCHING OUTFITS JSHSHJHS)

Btw I want to add the note, that Penelope being her name was evil on my part because she would wait for him for 20 years? she wouldnt <3 also funfact abt pliny the elder that we supposed Miss collins do reference to the two plinys, well that pliny irl in theory die trying to rescue some people from the eruption of a volcano, which kinda reinforce why I give pliny certain traits, he's btw very smart and very competent at his work, I remark this bc I believe a big why Pliny could really break into those elite spaces its for his service during the war as commander (I personally have this theory, bc according to what we know Capitol was like having no defenses on air nor they did very good in earth, whats left that may have doing it good? WATER! Or the navy!), I think too his family used go to vacation to d4 and he probably got many district people under his command + his own background, thats what made the pliny want show some sympathy to the plinth family when they move, in particular to strabo who he kinda admire bc since strabo its a pure haterrr and hes winning the I dont give a fuck competition, and pliny its like "OMG A RABBID DOG, HES SO COOL (And hot." Whatever's wrong in vesta is in him too).

Hmmmmm and then maybe a movie recommendation? (I need to watch more movies I watch literally none lol) and just in general... how are you? How's your university?

That's all for now! Take care <3

A WEEK LATE BUT WELL HERE COMES THE ANSWER. First sorry bby grace for taking so long but I wanted to take my time to write long replies and well last week uni had me busy with stuff but now I'm free (At least for a week *dance*). NOW (after sleep 8 hrs) I'm great <3 thanks for asking and yooou bby grace?? How is everything going this week for uuu? besides the fact that global warming is trying to melt us ofc ofc.

Opinion little popular. well I don't know how unpopular the word may be because people hardly talk about snowbottom lmao but I think it's that for me casca WAS NOT a victim of crassus in any way. or not the way casca implies at least.

I clarify that this is obvious obvious my interpretations and deductions, i think the text in canon does promote a certain idea, in particular to establish a certain connection between snowbottom and my hiatus ship, with friendships and betrayals, but reading a bit too much over certain lines I got some conclusions... explaining them, we need start that the thing for me is that casca was not really in a vulnerable situation respect to crassus to begin with. 

as casca is born and raised in the capitol, and most likely from a wealthy family similar to the snows. So casca being friends with crassus blood drinking districts is too different from sejanus being friends with coriolanus. even if they both had some awareness that the snows suck, bc well sejanus was in a desperate situation, he literally had to beg for crumbs of human decency as no one wanted to be his friend,

While I 100% believe Sejanus was aware that Coriolanus was bigoted (like everybody in Capitol honestly) and that he also own many other personality flaws, coriolanus still was worth of be his friend bc he never openly showed the particular hatred he felt for his family (snow worm was actually polite and kind in his behavior -if not in his thoughts- with Ma, for example) and he actively did certain actions that showed he cared about people in a way not usually seen in the Capitol (a particular kindness, let's say), even if again some his actions weren't healthy at all (like snow obviously concern about sejanus in d12 at his eyes, but he show it by be controlling and rude and sejanus not blink never at that, which is worry). 

Well, all of that, I don't think that was the case with Snowbottom at all.

crassus wouldn't have to hide in any way that he's violently bigoted with casca. I don't think he would pretend anything with him. and casca decided to be his friend because he genuinely liked crassus as a whole and, dare I say, because they thought similarly, like they probably shared worldwide in many aspects pre-war (I think a lot about the fact he himself admit the ideas of the games were JOKES. and private JOKES. the homework wasn't a casual talk -and I would still side eye if was purely a casual talk- but how disconnect you need be of certain aspects in life to the jokes with your bestie be about hypothetical scenarios of CHILDREN OF AN ENEMY DYING in such a CRUEL WAY, the only scenario I can think of the joke not being such negative shit its if casca visualize the games as some absurd / silly thing but again casca not think the games were a stupid concept, he himself say he was clever for it. which made it all sinister to me, and while I believe a lot he changed his views after war, there's something to say about him probably gaining mostly the knowledge of the districts as people under the you can't underestimate your enemy, again that's mostly shit he say in text, districts got some value since in war proof they weren't stupid nor inferior to capitol people, since they proved be a threat). 

I don't think casca couldn't make other friends, I don't think he was excluded and although he is well aware of crassus' other crimes, he still just seem bother with the fact that crassus failed to him personally, more than the extreme big chances of crassus abusing his wife (I think definitive the phrases about mrs snow implied heavy an abusive relationship, but even if not still they made clear wasnt a perfect relationship nor good, and casca say aloud it was MRS SNOW WHO CHOSE SELF DESTRUCTION, it come mostly from Collins views of course but inner universe, Im again side eye casca so bad for that. bc I think we all can agree if the relationship wasn't nice, it probably was bc of crassus treating bad mrs. snow -my baby julia in my hcs- bc mrs snow its described as kind, and we see Panem its very patriarchal and in particular snow family had proof some sexism very bad.) or the games killing children matter even (theres something to be say, casca its well aware gaul and the system as a whole its what allow the games to continue, this a thing actually reasonable coriolanus point out to him, why hold such grudge against crassus if hes fucking death? he literal die BEFORE THE GAMES START! but still casca its mad to be USED than be saying omg children are dying he's 99% grumbling bc HIS EX USED HIM. on why I said he sucks so bad but not for what most people think I'm afraid. tho I don't mean he not felt guilty and bad and tormented by the games and his participation but its notable he keep using crassus to let go his anger.)  

which led me to the so-called biggest betrayal. That's the mess of the scholar project but I personally think it's more interesting if this is more similar to the snowcote situation (in coriolanus really NEVER WANTED HURT CLEMENSIA. HOW THE HELL HE WOULD KNOW GAUL WOULD DO THAT LMAO), that's crassus wasn't trying to use casca to get only a good grade, like of course it was part of why he do it, but too casca admit he was gonna fail gaul class and pluribus gossiper and witness neutral over them, say he remember crassus saying to casca he do him a favour. 

so to me crassus honestly thought by delivering the project he was helping casca. I think it's funnier and add in how the games were this theoretical shit that crossed all limits to become an horrendous reality (that I would argue made sense since the theory was born from a not so nice place already! since again casca and crassus were both very disconnect from the districts suffering and struggles to see beyond gaul asking homework, thinking the enemies were non existing, without see under their feets oppression and abuse will explode in their faces years later with a war bc they got an enemy of their own invention by benefit from their starve and death. 

to me gaul see it coming btw, why probably she asked the damn project in the first place, def one of the many things I believe war proved she being right from her worldview.)

NOW ABOUT HOMOPHOBIA. I THINK THERE ARE TWO THINGS GOING ON. To me the reception of homosexuality in the capitol and districts are different, but let's get to it, I think coriolanus grew up in a relatively conservative environment in general with respect to this issue, especially in the upper class, kind of what I described with Bell about how there is no criminalization or direct institutionalization but there is some censorship of more kinky expressions of homosexuality, very puritanical thing you know? I think gay marriage existed but in a fairly limited way compared to heterosexual marriage rights, and this goes on all through his youth, hardener a bit post war with very rigid gender roles. 

until eventually you start to see a tendency in capitol to open up about homosexuality, I think the middle class especially is the one that undergoes a cultural change and probably demands more equal rights and perhaps the elimination of certain informal but discriminatory practices (like this slight censorship I think there might be in the media about not showing homosexual relationships, it is possible in certain jobs, especially concerning the government you could be fired if your sexuality was discovered, denial of same sex couples to get access to same healthcare, etc), by the time of katniss I think even the upper class has already opened up to the subject, although retaining the typical structures of heirs instead of children, marriage contracts, marriages of convenience and practice at the same time of exploit poorer people in capitol by subrrogate pregnacies or in eugenics practices like babies labs.

now I think that coriolanus approved of homosexuality and made it possible? em. yes and no. ITS A BIT COMPLICATE.

one aspect that for me coriolanus has to his advantage is that he is an absolute hypocrite lmao

he measures himself by certain terms and other people by others, as I said in my personal perspective coriolanus probably didn't see it right that pluribus was a feminine gay man to certain extend, again the minute he got mad at him he decided to criticize the way bell dress and the fact that he misses his dead husband? but as long as bell doesn't mess with him, coriolanus will be absolutely fine with him being gay.

but when it comes to himself, well yes he will have strong opinions, while I usually describe coriolanus as a straight man who became obsessed with a man rather than actually bisexual, my perspective is usually when I go under the he was actually bisexual it's that he would be extremely homophobic internalized, so he would deny himself the chance to have a relationship with a man bc he couldn't accept his attraction to them. I think that if he did at some point it was probably under prostitution (not directly seeking it himself, but as if letting someone take him to a brothel/gift him a winner to convince him of something) with someone younger and “effeminate” because he would like to think he is the "real man" (althought could be maybe too outside that environment) and if he did allow himself to be penetrated by another man more "masculine" or got a relationship with, I can imagine it went very badly for the poor guy involved since snow would be very paranoic about his reputation.

however that is his personal aspect, I think publicly yes he would look to insert himself in a heterosexual narrative, perfect wife and children, all "normal", but wouldn't mind in the end let capitol go more homosexual friendly, but it will be of course under his own terms and to his favour. for example one aspect I can see he benefit it's to promote the idea the districts are homophobic (and they were but exactly by his intervention and propaganda, in particular I can see snow ban homosexuality from peacekeeper service, the type of shit you can be expulsed from it, and like peacekeeper we know was a common way to people from the districts to get a decent payment and it's related a bit to social ascention inner districts. he would do this as some form of control, along other things made in subtle ways to forced in the districts heteronormative ideas, by propaganda, made tesselas and other "benefits" exclusive of straight marriages, I think districts not having marriage for same sex couples but instead some type of adoption or free union may be other! along let in the districts that usually are more brutalized by the peacekeepers like d11 or d12, allow the peacekeepers can put gay people in jail! only thing I consider form new book. but I feel the homophobia again in districts its a very thing of its own were many aspects would affect like class social inner districts, again I'm sure some workers class can be more indifferent or chill about it than the middle - upper classes inside the districts, etc.)

like sorry guys but I can see capitol citizens complaining about how on their vacation for d4, some locals judge two men that kiss in public, so really those people saying they should spend their precious tax dollars on giving free medical help to the districts, are stupid! the districts hate you! they would burn you alive if they knew you were gay!!!!! #snowlandsontop2089 #reelectpresidentsnow #capitolforcapitols

I MEAN. coriolanus wasn't exactly cheering them but he def wasn't complainning over them neither. I think he would have applied a little bit of what he did with sejanus, like he's not necessarily open about being anti gay or pro gay, just act indifferent, let certain things happen when it's inevitable and let everyone think what they want, like yes he hired that senator because he's gay, sure.

finally about the movies...

seeing moonlight on your list gave me the idea and since you like languages and their conflicts I offer you:

Sueño en otro idioma. <3 its a mexican lgbt+ film and ITS VERY GOOD. its focused in the lost of indigenous languages too.

other two options that may you like check:

Chicuarotes. this one I think for that time we talk abt snowfall series, since got in similar topics but ofc in México this time.

Huesera: the bone woman. terror lgbt+ mexican film. focused in maternity horrors, gender roles, and lesbians!!! its such a good movie I swear.

IT HAPPEEEEN. IT HAPPEN!!!

Who the hell are these bitches. This the family of Julia. Better know later as Julia Snow, the mother of Coriolanus.

Some random data: Sickness girl. Homeschooled. Isolated. Sing and play the piano. Shy and very good girl vibes (its deeply selfish and a bitch in secret, who swear its a good person -yes Coriolanus took it from her- <3), a lesbian that dont know can date girls

in the roman empire, june was the most popular month for weddings due to its connection with Juno. obviously, that reason doesn’t apply to the Capitol, but I can definitely see a bunch of capitolites hearing about these june weddings in ancient rome and making it a thing because they thought it was cool.

so june becomes the most popular month for weddings in the capitol. having a june wedding is also a sign of higher social status since they’re so expensive and venues are basically impossible to book. june is basically known as wedding season amongst wealthier capitol citizens.