#borgia ask

character: hate them | don’t really care | like them | LOVE them | THEY ARE MY PRECIOUS

ship with: I talked a little while ago about how I thought Cesare should have been in a romantic relationship with Leonardo da Vinci and I’ve only gotten more and more into idea since then. I just think it would have been thematically perfect, to watch them be each other’s muses as they pursue their own goals, both of them ultimately loyal only to their own minds/visions. Also, those two actors had a lot of chemistry and gave a lot of tension to their performances, you really felt like they understood each other and I just think it would have been perfect. 

friendship them with: Alessandro. No exclamation point because I’m not even gonna bother pretending that I’m saying something controversial, this is just like... something everyone knows. These two friends complimented each other in terms of their arcs and they constantly challenged on another. They had sweet moments, sad moments, scary moments... what’s not to love? 

general opinions: Cesare... I love him as a character, but trying to explain why I love him is complicated. He’s an extreme character to be sure, in every sense, I love how he can kind of inhabit the highest highs and the lowest lows at the same time. I think fundamentally to me, his character boils down to a singular question, “how do I become a legend?” And through the whole series, we’re watching him kind of... pursue that question and along the way he kind of goes on these little tangents “do I even want to be a legend?” or “what does it even mean to be a legend?” but he’s always motivated by this central goal of of being remembered and writing his name in the pages of history. I mean, this motivation was even present in the little things, one character detail that I LOVED was that they had Cesare paint his face in skull makeup in order to hide his syphilis scars, rather than wearing a mask which he disdains as “for the common man.” It’s made even more wonderful by the fact that Cesare Borgia historically did wear a mask, so we have this sort of commentary of the character commenting on the historical truth and going “No! I have to be even more dramatic than that!” because he’s trying to be a mythic figure, not necessarily a historical figure. Like this dude is trying so hard that it gets ridiculous at times, but that’s what makes it so wonderful!

We see him do so many things in pursuit of this goal, some of them truly great, some of them truly awful. But what was so great about his arc in Borgia to me is that it was only when he realized he had to stop trying to be great that he could truly ascend. “Be nothing, Cesare. Be no one. Disappear into the infinite.” That quote is so amazing to me because I think it is Cesare realizing that he has been so motivated by his own self-image that it’s prevented him from actually reaching his full potential. And then when he dies, the story allows him to “rise from the dead” and he is reborn as a myth. That’s what I think we’re seeing when we see all those cardinals gossiping about Cesare’s death, they’re speculating, inflating how many men he killed before he died, saying maybe he didn’t even die! We’re watching them “resurrect” Cesare by turning him into a legend. There was even a poster for s3 that had the tagline “End of a reign, birth of a myth” and that’s exactly how I’d describe it.

character: hate them | don’t really care | like them | LOVE them | THEY ARE MY PRECIOUS

ship with: These asks are making me wonder if I just fail at shipping, IDK I don’t really ship Giulia with anyone. Maybe she found herself a hot dude in Carbognano idk, I’d ship that.

friendship them with:  SILVIA!!! I loved how the show never let you forget their friendship. NGL, that moment where Giulia is in the church praying after Silvia died, completely vulnerable... I cried so hard. You realized that it was hard for both Alessandro and Giulia to lose Silvia and I’m really grateful that the show didn’t just center Silvia’s death around Alessandro. 

Oh my god Borgia! Without a doubt lmao. Okay now strap in because this is gonna be a full on dissertation omg.

I know it seems like an easy choice for me to make, bc I’m not as personally interested in the Borgias as historical figures, especially compared to my love of the Saga of Ragnar Lodbrok. However, I have kind of undergone a shift in how I view historical fiction. I don’t love things just bc they are accurate or inaccurate, I like deviations as long as they add to the story you are trying to tell.

I mean for example, the choice to have Lagertha divorce Ragnar instead of the other way around. The choice to flip the ages of the sons so that Ivar is the youngest. To have Ragnar start out as a farmer, in search of a new land. These are all good changes in the sense that they positively impacted the story Hirst was trying to tell and carried weight and meaning about the world he was building. They were deviations with a point and purpose that helped create a strong narrative. I’ve started to move away from “historically accurate” and towards “historically inspired” in the sense of was the author inspired by these historical aspects, were they trying to say something through this portrayal. I’m not describing it very well, I want you to have a specific intent basically, as pretentious and vague as that sounds.

But that’s what Borgia felt like to me, that there was a lot of fascination with the world and the discussions in it were full of intent (god I need to pick a better word). Like, I made a compilation post of some of the moments of religious discussion in Borgia, with Tom Fontana’s statement of intention about Borgia as a series. The interest I had in that statement wasn’t whether it was historically accurate or not, but the fact that it clearly laid out the feeling Tom Fontana intended to capture in the world of Borgia. People struggling to reconcile their religions with science, to understand their faith within the context of a much more complicated world. I mean, that conversation where Alessandro consents to Giulia having a cesarean section? That is a big moment that lays out new science conflicting with his faith and I think it’s really well done.

Vikings definitely had that sort of vibe for me, in the first 3 seasons. But I do feel that it’s devolved and become very simplistic. Vikings season 1 so beautifully captured the “curious spirit” of the Viking Age that Hirst was trying to portray… in a way that highlighted how raiding wasn’t the only aspect of their society. That economic need and lack of land was in part what drove them to push outward. But now it’s turned into “we must embark on a new way of life” and it’s a bit… not simplistic or even incorrect (like war is bad lmao) but I think it kind of betrays the themes of the first two seasons in a way. Because the first two season to me highlighted how it wasn’t just “bloodthirsty vikings love war” and yet that’s what the fight is now. And that’s not me saying that like the raids in the first two season showed that the characters were good or correct, obviously. But they set up an understandable world that I don’t think is present in the later seasons.

Also, I love the way the character arcs formed in Borgia. They were cohesive and subtle in a way that Vikings has never been lol. What I enjoyed was that characters could struggle with the same thing throughout all the seasons, while still moving forward and undergoing character development. Like, Lucrezia killing Juan! I loved that it wasn’t played as like… the moment she turns into a femme fatale or something nor is she constantly stuck in a rut of “did I do the right thing or not”. Instead it’s something that affects and informs a lot of her actions throughout the show in a believable manner. She can choose to leave her guilt behind in s2, and yet still in s3 tell Alfonso killing his brothers will change his life forever and their blood will be unwashable from his hands.  It reveals her own feelings, yes she can live with Juan’s blood on her hands and yet that action fundamentally changed her life forever even if it didn’t ruin it. Compare that to like Floki killing Athelstan (or Lagertha killing Aslaug) something that definitely negatively affected his life and yet… he never really dealt with emotionally, not even the fallout.

Always answering lol, even if it takes me like a month :P

Ok, so I had to take a lot of time to think about this because I love a lot of the Borgia costumes and also I just have a lot of thoughts about Borgia costumes in general, so it was difficult to confine my thoughts to just five lol. But I’ll save you my whole screed on what I think of the costume design and what I think they got wrong or right on the show.  On to the top 5 (most of which I’ve giffed lol)

1. Cesare’s golden ceremonial armor from 2.05: The entire outfit, him showing up in gold from head to foot was amazing. I mean, it was shocking and dramatic and it fits because this is Cesare as he wants to see himself. It was a striking, legendary image and the detailing was really beautiful… Also, he gave his armor a six pack and nipples, what a king. 

2. Vannozza dei Cattanei’s red gown from Lucrezia’s wedding: I think it’s fittingly sad in a way, that Vannozza to me, was the most strikingly dressed woman at the wedding. The jeweled cross she wears simultaneously shows her wealth and how pious she has become. The gown itself is gorgeous and elegant, but as I said before, it’s very striking and eye-catching. She arrives so beautifully, to what she thinks will be a proud moment for her, after all this is her daughter’s wedding. Yet, she isn’t allowed to sit with the family and she doesn’t get to spend much time with her daughter and IDK, I just felt a lot of sympathy in this moment and I think this was the PERFECT gown to highlight Vannozza’s character/situation in this moment. I’m probably overthinking the intent here but it doesn’t matter lol, I think it’s so beautiful it would have made my top 5 regardless.

3. Dorotea Malatesta’s green and yellow gown: Not only was this a ridiculously pretty dress (seriously I just love the pattern of the fabric), it was perfectly accessorized. The gloves? The cap? This is a lady who knows how to make an entrance!

4. Lucrezia Borgia’s gold dress from s2: Well, first this is just a really beautiful gown. I actually view this as the peak of the aesthetic the costume designer was going for with the women’s fashion in s2. I also love how her yellow veil is shot through with pink! It adds such a nice, soft touch to the costume overall.

5. Guilia’s red and blue gown from s3: No big speech about what this dress represents, I just think it is GORGEOUS. I think the combination of the red and blue gown, with the blue-and-purple shot veil is what really sells it. And of course Giulia just wears it so well!

I watched all of Borgia when it was still on Netflix, unfortunately the series got taken off of Netflix. The rights on season 3 must have been different (I think  Netflix co-produced that season, which might be the issue) so season 3 isn’t easily available in the US.