Not a ton of snark, but maybe someoneâll find some humor in my first draft hahaha
Before I go off, let me say a few things. The first is thank fuck for Paul Strack, you magnificent mad lad. The second it that there are three different timelines to know about when talking about the eymologies of Elvish. They are internal, external and publication history. Internal History is the history of Tolkienâs languages in-verse. So when Paul Strack (and I will be following his example) says âprimitive,â âancient,â âarchaicâ or âold,â he is describing the languages history in-verse. External is how Tolkienâs languages changed throughout his life. So when Paul Strack describes a language as âearly,â âmiddle,â âlate,â âearlier,â and âlater,â he is referring to the external development of Tolkienâs Languages. Publication history is self-explanitory in that itâs the order that information about Elvish languages was published to the general public.Â
âWhy did you explain all this to us?â you may ask. Iâll tell you. Itâs because I hate using the term Nandor.Â
FIRSTLY, no one in-verse used that except some crusty old Noldorin Historians in Aman and knew *nothing* about what happened to them after they refused to cross Hithaeglir, and they could only remember that the leader was named LenwĂ«, so like??? (WJ) This is like Washington Irvingâs âA History of the Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus,â where some guy uses sources to write an adventure story framed as a historical biography and *somehow* the guy getâs popular. And *thatâs* not even my biggest issue with the word Nandor
My BIGGEST issue with using Nandor is itâs etymology. As many people know, the Quenyan word Nandor means, âthose who go back.â (SI) This is supposedly referring to how this group refused to go beyond the Hithaeglir. What many people do not know is the in-verse history of the name or that there even is an in-verse evolution of language. Nandor is derived from the root (n)dan- which describes the reversal of an action or to undo something. The full definition from the War of the Jewels, is â...indicating the reversal of an action, so as to undo or nullify its effect, as in âundo, go back (the same way), unsay, give back (the same gift: not another in return).â Tolkien also gives this all a primitive form ndando, which means âone who goes back on his word or decision.â So. Thatâs why I donât like it. It says about a whole ass group of people that âThese are people who go back on their word, these are flakes, you canât trust them.â
âŠ.
âWhat other terms can I call them by then?â Literally anything else, I donât care. Here is a list and short description of each term.
Danwaith (S.) this was used by the Sindarin lore masters, though sometimes they confused it with Denwaith. This is formed from the words [dan] and [gwaith], which becomes [waith] later in Sindarin. [Gwaith] refers to a group of people and [dan] means âback to,â so the name means âPeople who go back.â LenwĂ« (N.) is the leaders Quenyan name, but his other name is Denweg, hence the confusion. Danwaith, as far as I can tell, is a carryover from when Denwegâs name was Dan, which Iâll get to in a moment. (WJ)
Dana (Nan.) This is actually from Tolkienâs Middle period (external), and the only Middle period one Iâll go over, so I wouldnât recommend using it, But Iâll give a quick overview. During this time, the leader of the Dana was named Dan (or DĂąn) and this is what the Dana called themselves. However, as you might recall, in-verse, (n)dan- come from ndando, so itâs unlikely that theyâd refer to themselves as that. Itâs other forms are Danas (pl.) and itâs angelized version Danian. (LR, WJ, PE)
Lindi (Nan.) This is the one I use. When the Lindi first came into Beleriand, they called themselves Lindai, which is the old Teleri clan name (LindĂąi -> Lindai -> Lindi (Nan) or Lindar (Q.)), but it had become Lindi in their tongue (WJ). Derived from the Sindar or directly from the Lindi, this is also what the Noldorin exiles used. This is derived from the primitive Elvish word lindÄ meaning âsweet sounding.â The singular is probably Lind. (WJ, PE)
Lindil (S.) After the Sindar recognized the Lindil as kin, they adopted the name Lindi and gave it the form Lindil or Lindedhil (WJ).
Laegel (S.) This term later replaced Lindil among the Sindar. It means âGreen-Elf,â which is a familiar term for us all! Itâs plural is Laegil and itâs class plural is either Laegrim or Laegel(d)rim. (WJ)
Laiquendi (Q.) This is the Quenyan translation of Laegel. It was translated by the Noldor, though it was not used very much (WJ).
Tawarwaith (S.) This term translates to âForest (tawar) People (gwaith).â (UT)
Galadrim (Nan.) is a collective plural that means âTree-People.â The Sindarin equivalent is Galadhrim
Silvan (Eng.) Alt. Sylvan Surprisingly, this isnât an Elvish word at all. Other non-Elvish Words to call them include, Green-Elves, Wood-Elves and East-Elves
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The Elf Lord who brought Dior the Silmaril; what was going through his head?- Commentary
Iâm not making anyone read my snark, but itâs under the cut
The Passage in question:
âThere came a night of autumn, and when it grew late, one came and smote upon the doors of Menegroth, demanding admittance to the King. He was a lord of the Green-Elves hastening from Ossiriand, and the door-wards brought him to where Dior sat alone in his chamber; and there in silence he gave to the King a coffer, and took his leave.â The Silmarillion, Of the Ruin of Doriath.
Relationship with the Sons of Fëanor
âBut the victory of the Elves was Dear-bought. For those of Ossiriand were light-armed, and no match for the Orcs, who were shod with iron and iron-shielded and bore great spears with broad blades; and Denethor was cut off and surrounded upon the hill of Amon Ereb. There he fell and all his nearest kin about him, before the host of Thingol could come to his aid. Â Bitterly though his fall was avenged, when Thingol came upon the rear of the Orcs and slew them in heaps, his people lamented him ever after and took no king again. After the battle some returned to Ossiriand, and their tidings filled the remnant of their people with great fear [if I had a dollar for everytime the writings implied Green-Elves were cowards, Iâd have about $6 because thereâs so little written about them], so that thereafter they came never forth in open war, but kept to themselves by wariness and secrecy; and they were called Laiquendi, the Green-elves, because of their raiment of the color of leaves. But many went North and entered the guarded realm of Thingol and were merged with his people.1â
â...And the Orcs took the fortress upon the west slopes of Mount Rerir, and ravaged all of Thargelion, the land of Caranthir; and they defiled Lake Helevorn. Thence they passed over Gelion with fire and terror and came into East Beleriand. Maglor joined Maedhros upon Himring; but Caranthir fled and joined the remnant of his people to the scattered folk of the hunters, Amrod and Amras, and they retreated and passed Ramdal in the south [see!! Literally right here, in my previous post I bitched about this--no one else is written like that!!]. Upon Amon Ereb they maintained a watch and some strength of war, and they had the aid of the Green-Elves; and the Orcs came not into Ossiriand, nor to Taur-im-Duinath and the wilds of the south.2â
â...and the sons of FĂ«anor wandered before the wind. Their arms were scattered, and their league broken; and they took to a wild life and woodland life beneath the feet of Ered Lindon, mingling with the Green-Elves of OssiriandâŠ3â
âThe Nelyar [Teleri] were most reluctant to leave their lakeside homes; but they were very cohesive, and very conscious of the separate unity of their Clan (as they continued to be), so that when it became clear that their chieftains Elwe and Olwe were resolved to depart and would have a large following, many of those among them who had at first joined the Avari went over to the Eldar rather than be separated from their kin. The Ăoldor indeed asserted that most of the âTeleriâ were at heart Avari, and that only the Eglain*** really regretted being left in Beleriand.â After writing about the Tatyar (Noldor who remained in Middle-Earth) and their bitterness towards the Noldor, Christopher Tolkien writes, âThis ill-feeling descended in part from the bitterness of the Debate before the March of the Eldar began, and was no doubt later increased by the mechanisms of Morgoth; but it also throws some light upon the temperment of the Ăoldor in general, and FĂ«anor in particular, Indeed the Teleri on their side asserted that most of the Ăoldor in Aman itself were in heart Avari, and returned to Middle-Earth when they discovered their mistake; they needed room to quarrel in.11**â
Amon Ereb is where the Green-Elves buried their king and lamented him ever after. During Dagor Bragollach, Ambarussa and Caranthir flee to Amon Ereb, where they âmaintained a watch and some strength of war.â Thereâs two ways this can be: We can ignore the line âhad the aid of the Green-Elves;â Since the Quenta Silmarillion was written in universe and has been revised in universe, you can say that thatâs not an accurate retelling. You could instead say that since there is a War going on, the Feanorians just built there and the Green-Elves feared the  retaliation of Murderers. Following that, even if this were not the case and the Green-Elves were understanding, there is bound to be some dissent or some begrudging feelings for building a fortress on their beloved kings grave. The other option is to accept the line and say that the Green-Elves allowed them to build there. This would imply that they have a phenomenally good relationship with the Sons of FĂ«anor (or at least 4, 6 & 7) to allow them to build on Denethor's grave. Though I do not think the first option is liable since the Green-Elves attended the Feast of Reuniting, when Thingol only sent two Elves in his stead. In addition to this, The Sons mingled with the Green-Elves after the Fifth Battle, which if canon is to be believed and that âa stranger might pass through their land from end to end and see none of them4,â If the Green-Elves didnât want to mingle, they wouldnât have. The next mention of their location (in the published Silmarillion) is after the Elf Lord brought the Silmaril to Doriath, when they were âgathered again from their wandering,â so while itâs not explicit that both the Sons of FĂ«anor and the Silmaril were both within the borders of Ossiriand at the same time, it is implied [đ]. Though it seems that there is some bitterness between the Teleri and Noldor [I wonder how different their familial structures are--the Teleri stick together and thatâs extremely important to them. There also seem to be excpetions to this since the Teleri are on both sides of the sea⊠and Iâm not saying that family isnât important to the Noldor (look at FinwĂ«âs family), but when given the choice, a large majortiy left their families behind or left them to cross the Ice]. Though the Lindi* are a subsection of the Teleri, they are (along with the Avari), often an afterthought in writings [Iâm not kidding--WJ/374 â...when the [Elves of Aman] spoke of the Eldalie, âthe Elven-Folk,â he meant vaguely all the races of Elves, though [they] were probably not thinking of the Avari.â], so I am unsure if the second quote could apply to the Green-Elves or if C. Tolkien was specifically referring to the Tatyar. Regardless though, it seems to me that the Noldor and Teleri have something in common--theyâre both Avari at heart and love Middle-Earth. [whatâs so great about Aman anyway :/ clearly not much, if the majority of elves wanted to stay/ returned and only left for Aman when the Elves were *dying*]. Though the Second Kinslaying takes place after the events asked about, Iâm going to touch on it briefly as well. Specifically, how â...[the Teleri] were very cohesive, and very conscious of the separate unity of their Clan (as they continued to be), so that when it became clear that their chieftains Elwe and Olwe were resolved to depart and would have a large following, many of those among them who had at first joined the Avari went over to the Eldar rather than be separated from their kin.â Teleri donât like to be seperate from their families and donât do so lightly; this, to me, implies a high emphasis on family compared to the other clans. The Sons of FeĂ€nor, who they gave safe harbor to and allowed to build on their kings grave, really spit in Green-Elves of Ossiriandâs face when they killed their close kin in Doriath. [Big Yikes]
Relationship with the Sindar
âBut the victory of the Elves was Dear-bought. For those of Ossiriand were light-armed, and no match for the Orcs, who were shod with iron and iron-shielded and bore great spears with broad blades; and Denethor was cut off and surrounded upon the hill of Amon Ereb. There he fell and all his nearest kin about him, before the host of Thingol could come to his aid. Bitterly though his fall was avenged, when Thingol came upon the rear of the Orcs and slew them in heaps, his people lamented him ever after and took no king again. After the battle some returned to Ossiriand, and their tidings filled the remnant of their people with great fear, so that thereafter they came never forth in open war, but kept to themselves by wariness and secrecy; and they were called Laiquendi, the Green-elves, because of their raiment of the color of leaves. But many went North and entered the guarded realm of Thingol and were merged with his people.1â
â...Of those Nandor who took refuge in Doriath after the fall of Denethor is it said; âIn the event they did not mingle happily with the Teleri of Doriath, and so dwelt mostly in the small land Eglamar, ArthĂłrien under their own chief. Some of them were âdarkhearted,â though this did not necessarily appear, except under strain or provocation.â [this is called âbeing normal.â We all have a dark side that appears under strain of provocation. Maybe theyâre noted as such because everyone keeps being a dick] âThe chief of the âGuest-elves,â as they were called, was given a permanent place in Thingolâs councilâŠ7â
Iâm going to paraphrase this next bit by a lot, since itâs a couple pages worth of material11âŠ
Celben: the Sindarin equivalent of Kalaquendi; all Elves other than the Avari and includes the Sindar. It is also equivalent to Eldar (Q.) and Elloi (T.)
Morben: Originally only referred to the Avari, but as other Children became known, it came to mean âAnyone dwelling outside Beleriand, or entering their realm from the outside.â âThe first people of this kind to be met were the Nandor...when the Nandor were recognized as kinsfolk of Lindarin origin and speech, they were received into the class of Celbin.â However, later in Note 9 which discusses Eöl and Maeglin, âSome of the Nandor, who were allowed to be Celbin, [*allowed??* wtf is this? Is this a VIP club??] were not any better,â is written and the Note goes on to discuss Saeros.
âNow word went swiftly among the Elves of Ossiriand that a great host of dwarves bearing gear of war had down out of the mountains and passed over Gelion at the Ford of Stones. These tidings came soon to Beren and LĂșthien; and in that time also a messenger came to them out of Doriath telling of what had befallen there. Then Beren arose and left Tol Galen, and summoning to him Dior his son they went north the river Ascar; and with them went many of the Green-Elves of Ossiriand...In that battle by Sarn Athrad Beren fought his last fight, and himself slew the Lord of Nogrod, and wrested from him the Necklace of the Dwarves; but he dying laid his curse upon all the treasure. Then Beren gazed in wonder on the selfsame jewel FĂ«anor that he has cut from Morgoths iron crown, now shining set amid gold and gems by the cunning of the dwarves; and he washed it clean of blood in the waters of the river. And when all was finished the treasure of Doriath was drowned in the river Ascar, and from that time the river was named anew, RathlĂłriel, the Golden BedâŠ5â
The Green-Elves and the Sindar are both a part of the OlwĂ«âs Host that split off in Middle-Earth, albeit at different times. The Green-Elves had the âFriendship of Thingol,6â and âwere welcomed by Thingol as kin long lost that return, and they dwelt in Ossiriand, the Land of Seven Rivers.1â Tolkien writes that his fall was âbitterly avenged,â so Thingol probably held Denethor himself in high regard. Some even merged with his people in Doriath. However, there is more to this story. âIn the event,â is not an often encountered phrase but âIn the event thatâ is, so myself and others were confused at this wording. As it turns out, the phrase means that after discussing what couldâve been, youâre now discussing what actually happened. âIn the end,â âas it happened,â and âas it turned out,â are synonymous with âin the event.8â So this means that the majority of the Green-Elves who migrated to Thingolâs kingdom were unhappy within his kingdom, [and they likely wouldnâtâve been able to leave...and where would theyâve gone? To the Noldor who Thingol hated and wouldnât allow them to leave to join or their kin in Ossiriand who hold family in such high regard?] and though they had a permanent seat on his council, they were also called âGuest-Elves,â which likely alienated them more. I also want to discuss the classes of Calben and Morben; At first it does seem to follow the published Silmarillion--that all of the Green-Elves were welcomed as kin and subsequently, entered into the class of Celben. I donât think that is the case anymore; I think instead, the ones who merged with Doriath were âallowedâ to become Celben and those who returned to Ossiriand remained Morben [This really is a VIP club]. It could be, of course, that Green-Elves of Ossiriand are the only ones of the Lindi to hold the title of Celben--the rest of the Lindi throughout Middle-Earth are Morben. Moving on though, the Guest-Elves probably seldom left Doriath and werenât in much contact with their kin in Ossiriand, so itâs difficult for me to say how this impacted Ossiriand Green-Elveâs and Sindarâs relationship; it seems that there was a very dichotomous relationship between them. [read: I just think the Sindar are a fickle bunch] But! Either way, the Green-Elves in and out of Doriath are kin and while that may have caused some tension--Teleri donât like to be separated from their family and donât do so lightly--they are still *kin* and would not take too kindly to their families being slaughtered over a jewel. I think that the Sack of Doriath would be enough âstrain or provocationâ to bring about their âdark heartedness.â [tbh, I donât think any Elf would, but other than people being dicks, they gotta get their âdark heartedâ reputation from somewhere lol]
Curses, Dooms and Prophecies in the Legendarium
âNow word went swiftly among the Elves of Ossiriand that a great host of dwarves bearing gear of war had down out of the mountains and passed over Gelion at the Ford of Stones. These tidings came soon to Beren and LĂșthien; and in that time also a messenger came to them out of Doriath telling of what had befallen there. Then Beren arose and left Tol Galen, and summoning to him Dior his son they went north the river Ascar; and with them went many of the Green-Elves of Ossiriand...In that battle by Sarn Athrad Beren fought his last fight, and himself slew the Lord of Nogrod, and wrested from him the Necklace of the Dwarves; but he dying laid his curse upon all the treasure. Then Beren gazed in wonder on the selfsame jewel FĂ«anor that he has cut from Morgoths iron crown, now shining set amid gold and gems by the cunning of the dwarves; and he washed it clean of blood in the waters of the river. And when all was finished the treasure of Doriath was drowned in the river Ascar, and from that time the river was named anew, RathlĂłriel, the Golden BedâŠ5â [The Elven forces didnât take many casualties, but wouldât they want wergild? Also, other then Beren being Tolkienâs SI or revenge, why would the Green-Elves want to fight? They seldom engage in open war, and donât like strangers so??? Is this apart of their alliance with Doriath if they had one? Did they hate Dwarves that much? Did they want gold? What the fuck is up???]
I will not write out every curse, doom or prophecy. I am only going to list them. [there are so many, I didnât even list them allâŠ] The point of me listing all of these out is to show just how much power these types of things have in the Tolkien Legendarium and even if they are a self-fulfilling prophecy, they tend to come true in some way.
The Doom of Mandos
MĂźm cursing Nargothronds treasure and the Nauglamir(in some variations)
The Dead Men of Dunharrow
The Curse of Morgoth; "the shadow of my thought shall lie upon them wherever they go." And the events after HĂșrins release
Eölâs curse â...Here you may yet die the same death as I.â
Beleg to TĂșrin; âIf I stayed beside you, love would lead me, not wisdom.â
Melian to TĂșrin; âThere is malice in this sword. The dark heart of the smith still dwells in it. It will not love the hand it serves; neither will it abide with you long.â
Glaurung to TĂșrin; â...but thou carest not for that Glad may thy father be to learn that he hath such a son; as learn he shallâ
Melian to Thingol; âFor you have either doomed your daughter, or yourself. And now is Doriath drawn within the fate of a mightier realm.â
Huans Fate
The Lord of Nargothrond cursing the treasures of Doriath and the Nauglamir
There is more, but I think you get the point.
I want to touch on how the River Ascar flows into the River Gelion and â...after Sirion Ulmo loved Gelion above all the waters of the western world.4â In addition to this, the Green-Elves of Ossiriand rely on their rivers, not only for the nourishment water provides but they also âlived in the protection of their rivers,7â meaning that they also relied on the rivers for protection. I also want to point out that Ascar is the most upstream river of Ossiriand. âWhy does this matter,â you ask âWhat does this have to do with curses?â WellâŠ. The meaning of Ascar is ârushing or imperious (moving forcefully or rapidly).10â In addition to the river's name signifying its nature,  itâs also written that â...[the rivers] fell steeply and very swift from the Mountains of Ered Lindon.9â So there is no way that cursed gold is staying put. If the Green-Elves [and Ulmo] were upset at having cursed gold in their river, that they rely on for protection, imagine how upset theyâd be if there was cursed gold in the Galion, that borders all of their land.
Personally, I think that if it were any other Elf-Lord, we would have had a different story. The Silmarillion has a tragic thing going on where, if a tragedy is prevented, another one would take its place. Here, if it was any other Elf who was in possession of the Silmaril, the Second Kinslaying may have been prevented, but the Silmaril wouldnât go to Valinor.
The Sindar and Green-Elves seem to have a dichotomous relationship, where the Sindar seem to accept them as kin, but also refer to them as outsiders. The Noldor (specifically the Sons of FĂ«anor) and the Green-Elves seem to have a better relationship, but there is some old bitterness between the Noldor and Teleri and any good relationship wouldâve been destroyed following the Second Kinslaying. But to answer your question, what was going through that Elf Lords head? I think it was something along the lines of "Ah! Cursed Jewelry that has poisoned our river and has been the cause of many deaths, better get this out of here before the Sons of FĂ«anor or my fellow Green-Elves who like them more than Doriath find me!"
*I donât like the term Nandor and I refuse to use it unless I have to. Itâs derived from the primitive elvish word ândandĆâ which means, âone who goes back on his word or decision.â âPrimitive elvishâ is used by Paul Strack to describe the internal (fictional) evolution of elvish. âLindiâ is what the Green-Elves called themselves. [it seems like thereâs at least 4 different ways to refer to them and I liked Lindi the best. One day Iâll finish my âPlease call them anything else than Nandorâ post.]
**I am aware that the quote continues to contrast this with the relations between Sindar, Green-Elves and other Avari elves, but this talks about the second age so I chose to not include it.
***âThe Forsaken.â The Sindar named themselves this, but it only refers to Sindar who wanted to go to Aman but arrived late or looked for ElwĂ« for too long. CĂrdan is their Lord and they are the most friendly towards the Noldor.