Exploring the missed potential of Anders' character
Anders was an interesting character with a backstory and a set of characteristics that would have been amazing if explored further, but I believe his character's potential was tragically squandered by bad narrative choices and poor writing.
Here's a list of how I think his narrative potential hadn't been fully explored:
His name really isn't "Anders" -- it was a name given to him when he arrived at the circle at age 12 and was so traumatized he refused to speak, not even to say his name. BioWare has never revealed Anders' birth name. We also know that he has Anderfels heritage on his father's side, who migrated to Ferelden as a boy. It could have been revealed, through his birth name, that he has some connection to an Anderfels-related plotline: he could be related to the First Warden, or his family could have prominence or influence in the Grey Wardens of Weisshaupt.
Anders is a mage, a Grey Warden, and a host to a Spirit of Justice. This combination of spirit healing (already a rare branch of magic), Blight magic, and a connection to a Spirit of the Fade has never occurred before in known canon. Anders being connected to the mages, the Circle, the Grey Wardens, the darkspawn, and Fade Spirits means that there is a whole world of possibilities to explore with that combination, so many things you could do with his character.
Leveraging off Anders' connection with Justice, a potential key to finding the cure for the Calling could have involved possession by a Fade Spirit. (We already know Fade Spirits are essential to curing Tranquility -- perhaps there's more we could do with that.)
Anders could potentially be a companion to both the Hero of Ferelden and the Champion of Kirkwall, depending on your World State. If your HoF didn't die during the Archdemon battle and continued to Amaranthine, Anders (together with Justice) is the only NPC companion who has traveled with both the HoF and Hawke, and is also a potential love interest to Hawke. (Zevran and Isabela also are NPCs acquainted with both the HoF and Hawke, but only Anders has been a party companion for both.)
Anders could potentially be the only known Grey Warden to have met both the Architect and Corypheus.
Anders could have potentially have battled demons in the Fade three times: his Harrrowing, the Blackmarsh sequence in DA Awakening, and the "Night Terrors" Feynriel rescue mission in DA2. Considering these experiences, plus the fact he has his own in-built Spirit GPS in the form of Justice to help him navigate the Fade, Anders has the highest potential to be the one to rescue Hawke/Stroud/Loghain/Alistair from the Fade (if left there in DAI and has the potential to be rescued).
Anders may have political connections to the throne of Ferelden, if Alistair was made King, and was present at and endorsed Anders' conscription into the Wardens.
If your Warden was Mahariel, Anders would have a common connection with Merrill. If your Warden was Amell, Anders could have an extra connection to Hawke, having known their relative. A Warden Amell or Surana could also have an added layer of their relationship with Anders, having grown up in the same Circle together. (Anders just has a lot of connections to famous people and an extensive network that would have made everyone on LinkedIn jealous, is what I'm sayin đ)
Anders being a prominent figure in the mage rebellion could also have been explored further -- especially in relations to Fiona, who was coincidentally another mage advocating for mage freedom and with a connection to the Grey Wardens and Alistair.
I just think it's tragic that Anders had so much potential -- arguably one of the characters with the most potential in the overall plot -- and yet BioWare squandered all that potential to push their brand of "grey morality".
The narrative and writing could have framed Anders as a heroic character -- it would have been so easy, the chances were right there -- which would have opened up the chance to explore the potential of his character further in subsequent works, but instead in DAI, BioWare doubled down on slandering his character to drive the point home that he was a villain, and closing off further exploration of his character post DA2.
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Anders approval drama never dies, does it? It's a big button pushed whenever Anders is being enjoyed too peacefully and someone wants to resurrect the Abhorrent Anders vs. Flawless Fenris agenda. (Look, Fenris is flawless but it's not a zero sum game).
Here's the thing, though, in over 10 years the desire to discredit Anders has only ever gone hand in hand with trivializing what he represents within the larger themes of the narrative and that's the main reason for the pushback and frustration. It's unsurprising Anders and Fenris are both loved and prioritised, they're two sides of the same dented and downtrodden coinâ a mirror of each other (not a trigger for each other)â people are right to relate to their struggles and flaws, and desire the best for them.
However, Anders (as with most DA2 characters) is also a rushed series of sociopolitical metaphors stuffed into a passionate and traumatized activist whose mental health is deteriorating on screen in a game that doesn't know how to say anything salient without also giving fascism a soap box. He's inconsistently written because DA2 is careless with its allegories and metaphors. (That's not even getting into how Anders/Justice is based on a irl person with bipolar, particularly dark considering you can choose to mercy kill him).
Anders is mage rights in a game about mage rights. His deterioration parallels the deterioration of the 'relationship' between the mages and templars in Kirkwall. His whole character arc asks the question of where the line is between Justice and Vengeance. He blew up a symbol of his oppression. All this makes him a iconic and memorable character. Yet he's also serving as allegory for historically marginalized identities imprisoned by authoritarian governments. His innate magic, its treatment, and his ostracism serves generally as metaphors for queerness. This is to say that a formally enslaved character shouldn't have been the biggest mouthpiece for being pro mage internment and abuse, and neither Fenris' or Anders' trauma should have been used to two-sides an argument that is very clearly one-sided.
Whether Anders approval is in character is besides the point because it shouldn't have been an option in the first place. It was a trivialization of Fenris' enslavement (thus of slavery overall), their relationship (they don't hate each other that much, God), and Anders' cause (making him a monstrous hypocrite is justification for killing him and dismissing the mage cause). What's more, their rivalry itselfâ without development, resolution, or catharsisâ leaves less thoughtful players feeling vindicated in hating, abusing, or discarding both of them in ways that mirror how they are treated textually. It was irresponsible Dragon Age storytelling and DA2 shouldn't get a pass for its careless aspects because of a neverending compulsion to throw Anders under the bus.
Well, my piece is said and now I'll keep loving both Fenris and Anders in peace đ â¤ď¸.
This is kind of sudden, but do you think that Anders is/was devout at some point???
You mean re: Andrastianism? I think so, yeah.
I mean, itâs canon that his father was a devout Andrastian and that was the main reason his father sent him away to the Circle:Â
The Circle, the templars, theyâve shaped my life. I was no more than twelve when they came for me. My mother wept when they fixed the chains to my wrists, but my father was glad to see me gone. He had been afraid, ever since the fire in the barn. Not just afraid of what I could do, but afraid of me, afraid my magic was punishment for whatever petty sins he imagined the Maker sat in judgment upon. (I have the source linked on this post)
Growing up in that environment, and then being sent to the Circle where the only perspective allowed is the Chantryâs strict version of Andrastianism, I think he internalized a lot of that (I wrote some about that at the above link).Â
A lot of his personal struggle from Awakening onward is reframing his own faith to be more accepting of him and other mages. All the spiritual authorities in his life have always held the perspective that magic is inherently sinful and evil, and that thereâs nothing a mage can do to truly prove themself - that they deserve imprisonment, abuse, and oppression because of what they are, regardless of what they actually do.Â
He internalized a lot of that, which is why sometimes he seems to contradict himself: he says that magic is a gift from the Maker rather than a curse and that mages shouldnât have to prove themselves any more than non-mages do, but at the same time he still has this fear of being a âBadâ mage (i.e. not being in full control of himself and his magic at all times; merging w/ a spirit; etc.), and he still has a lot of unquestioned bias toward mages who fit into those categories that the Chantry deems âBadâ (e.g. blood mages, even when their blood magic isnât being used unethically - tho I also think some of his knee-jerk negative reactions re: blood magic are from Justice, since he seems much more harsh about it in DA2 than he does in Awakening).Â
Also, growing up in the Circle means he didnât get any perspectives on magic other than the Chantryâs, so heâs really ignorant about Dalish clans, Avvar and Chasind traditions, etc. I mean, spirit possession is a rite of passage for Avvar mages, but thatâs something he would have never heard of in the Circle, so he sees possession as something that will inevitably end up badly. Basically, he grew up in a highly censored environment that views every one of those cultures as inferior and wrong, so he has a lot to unlearn & relearn. Itâs also why heâs so ignorant about Tevinter - heâs skeptical about what the Chantry says about Tevinter because he already suspects that so much of what the Chantry teaches is propaganda. The thing the Chantry focuses on in their criticisms of Tevinter and the Imperial Chantry is the acceptance magic (including blood magic), rather than whatâs actually wrong with Tevinter: slavery, exploitation, imperialism, wealth and class inequality, etc. (all of which the southern Chantry also engages in or ignores, so of course theyâre not gonna strongly oppose those).Â
He also has the occasional crisis of faith, like in the Legacy DLC, after meeting Corypheus. When he learns that some of the Chantryâs teachings about the origins of darkspawn could be true, he starts to doubt himself - âif the Chantry was right about this, what else were they right about?â (which Iâm p sure in his mind also translates to âif my abusers were right about this, were they also right about me?â). Itâs worth noting that heâs also more likely to go into those self-doubt spirals when heâs in a depressed mood episode, I notice - a lot of his depressive thinking is tinged with the same self-hating, self-fearing rhetoric the Chantry tries so hard to ingrain in Circle mages. He tries to fight back against those teachings, but it can be extremely challenging for him, because thatâs what spiritual abuse and growing up in an echo chamber can do (for a more extreme example, check out what the Circle mage Keili has to say in DA:O).Â
TL;DR: I think he tries to be devout in his own way - that is, to find a way to be devout that doesnât have to adhere to the Chantryâs doctrine. On his good days, he talks about how Andraste would have never agreed with how the Chantry has construed her teachings (e.g. in Awakening, if you examine the statue of Andraste). He talks about how the Maker created mages, and their magic is a gift rather than a curse (e.g. in his manifesto - a lot of his arguments are actually made from a faith-based perspective, which indicates both how personal it is for him and also his understanding of how much influence Chantry doctrine has over society as a whole). He talks about how heâs Andrastian, but that doesnât have to mean he supports the Circle - how he can believe in the Maker and in Andrasteâs teachings without agreeing with how the Chantry has interpreted the Chant.Â
But on his bad days, he still struggles with his faith because Chantry doctrine and all of the spiritual authorities in his life have taken a hard stance of âmagic is bad and mages donât deserve to be treated like people,â and itâs hard to break free of that when the authority figures and institutions that have had control of you your entire life have repeated it ad infinitum. Tell someone enough times that theyâre irredeemable and they might start to believe it, no matter how much of a rebel they are. Personal recovery for him involves being able to reframe his faith in a way that embraces people like him, and itâs an uphill battle, but he works at it.Â
I want to draw attention to this conversation Anders and Isabela have in Act 3 of DA2 ...
Anders: "There is justice in the world."
Isabela: "Is there? You want to free the mages. Let's say you do, but to get there, you kill a bunch of innocent people."
Isabela: "What about them? Don't they deserve justice?"
Anders: "Yes."
Isabela: "And then what? Where does it end?"
Isabela: "It's like a bar brawl. People are continuously pulled into the fray, and nobody remembers why it started."
Isabela: "Justice is an idea. It makes sense in a world of ideas, but not our world."
(emphasis mine)
I think this bit of dialogue is SO telling of Anders' thinking and motivations in Act 3.
He is fully aware that his action of destroying the Kirkwall Chantry is deserving of retribution. He submits himself to it after the act is done. Anders and Justice fully agree that the people who died in the Chantry explosion are deserving of justice, too.
Which is why they readily submit themselves to Hawke's judgement. They will not fight back. Anders and Justice both agree that a price must be paid, and were ready to pay for the price of their actions with their lives.
And this is exactly the reason why they did not involve Hawke in the full extent of their plans.
Because it would have implicated Hawke too.
Let me say that again.
If Hawke knew the full extent of Anders' plan, the full truth, Hawke would be implicated in the act and be deserving of retribution, too.
Anders wanted Hawke to have a way out, a "get out of jail free" card â if Hawke was ignorant of Anders and Justice's plans, Hawke can claim innocence and be exempt from retribution. It's all on Anders' head now; only Anders deserves to be punished. Hawke is protected and safe.
(And for those of you who are saying, "Anders should have involved Hawke, because Hawke would have found another solution to the problem" â I firmly believe that Anders had no other choice and had exhausted all other options. But that's an argument for another day.)
Players who played a fully mage-sympathetic Hawke, who did nothing but support Anders throughout the game, and feel "betrayed" because Anders would not let Hawke in on the whole plan and support him fully â this is why. Anders acted alone because he knows Hawke deserves to escape the ordeal unscathed.
And sure, Hawke can still feel "betrayed", in the sense that a mage-sympathetic Hawke would have willingly faced the same retribution and willingly paid the same price for being complicit in the plan. They would still want to chastise Anders for excluding them from it â which is why you have this dialogue option:
Hawke: "I might have understood, if you'd only told me."
Anders: "I wanted to tell you. But what if you stopped me? Or worse, what if you wanted to help? I couldn't let you do that."
And Anders explains this, exactly. He knows Hawke is too important to Kirkwall to be implicated (and if romanced, he loves Hawke too much to see them implicated). This is why Anders decided to act alone. This way, Hawke could never be pulled into that "bar brawl", to borrow Isabela's metaphor.
I guess some players are upset because they're like, how dare you take that choice away from me? I'm the player, I'm supposed to have full agency over the narrative. But tbh, I personally think it can be a more fulfilling and memorable narrative if the NPCs also have a degree of autonomy, and are capable of acting outside of the player character's control.
I suppose a portion of players miss this little insight because Isabela didn't stay after Act 2 to trigger this Act 3 banter with Anders, or they rarely had Anders and Isabela in the same party line-up in Act 3.
So what do you think are anders best traits (other than him worrying about mage rights and him being a compassive healer?) I really love him and I love the way you write about him so I'm just curious.
Thereâs a lot I love about him :0
I mean, on a personal level, heâs a really relatable character for me, so thatâs part of why I like him so much.
But I also like him as a character in general. (Iâll put this post under a cut bc it got long.)Â
Him being a compassionate healer and being incredibly passionate about mage rights are huge parts of his character and theyâre honestly two of the biggest things that make me like him so much.Â
Like, hereâs a person who was subject to systemic abuse for most of his life, who knows full well the repercussions of rebelling against the status quo, but does it anyway, because his convictions are just that strong. He knows that the Circle and the Chantry are fundamentally wrong. Heâs experienced and witnessed firsthand what happens to people who fight back. Hell, when we meet him Awakening, heâs only just recently been released from a year of solitary confinement for running away - he just got out and as soon as he was able to, he ran again. If he gets caught and sent back to the Circle again, heâs going back into solitary confinement at the very least, and by the time heâs in Kirkwall, heâs also possessed by a spirit, so heâs risking just being killed outright. Heâs risking everything by fighting back so openly and actively, but he does it anyway.Â
And itâs not just Justiceâs presence that makes him so willing to fight. Even when he was running, he was fighting back, because by constantly running away, he was refusing to submit. But in Awakening, Anders did feel like he couldnât have any impact on the status quo - he believed that things would change eventually, he believed that the way mages are treated is inherently and fundamentally wrong and one day things would be different, but he didnât think heâd ever see it in his lifetime, and he didnât believe he of all people could do anything to enact change. Justice helped him realize that he could be an agent of change, but that fire and that strong sense of right and wrong were already there - it just needed to be validated and encouraged, which Justice did for him.Â
And I do like that Anders needed support to be able to get to that point, bc I feel like thatâs... realistic, yâknow? I donât like the idea that everyone should have to fend for themselves and not have to rely on others to stand up and fight. He couldnât do it alone, and thereâs nothing wrong with that. He hasnât gotten much support from others throughout his life, so I like that in this instance, he had someone to lean on. (And I still wish there were more opportunities to support him more actively in DA2.) Â
Like, it was difficult for Anders to admit to those feelings of powerlessness - which is entirely understandable, because in his experience, showing that kind of vulnerability could get him killed or worse (if the templars considered a mage to be weak-willed, they might not even give them a chance at the Harrowing and just make them Tranquil outright - and Anders is canonically mentally ill, which I imagine added an extra burden in terms of hiding his vulnerability). So, outwardly, he talked a big talk about only being concerned with his own freedom and pretends to be more apathetic and careless than he actually is.Â
This also shows a lot in terms of his sense of humor - itâs a lot of morbid sarcasm, irreverent joking, gallows humor even - because he uses it as a shield and a coping mechanism. Ngl, I love that aspect of him, itâs one of the things that started endearing him to me in Awakening first. I play my Hawke as having a similar sense of irreverent, snarky humor, so they play well off of one another. Humor as a coping mechanism is a character trait I tend to appreciate and relate to a lot, haha.Â
Anyway, I think in actuality he cares so much it hurts. It might not seem like it when we first meet him in Awakening, but I think itâs just that itâs easier and psychologically safer for him to pretend he doesnât care than it is to admit that he does care but feels powerless to change things. It takes a lot of strength (and also support from others, which again, is something that Anders hasnât had much of throughout most of his life) to be able to confront your own vulnerability and try to channel it into something that benefits others.Â
But even in Awakening, his actions often contradicted the âI donât care about anyone but myselfâ talk - if you tell him to run away in the beginning of the game, heâll do so, but he shows back up like five minutes later because he felt like he couldnât leave the Warden to fight the darkspawn alone (he jokes about being âbad at the whole âfugitive from justiceâ thingâ, which... turns out to be way more accurate than he may even realize in that moment). In the endgame, heâs not eager to go along with the Warden to Amaranthine, but if you do bring him, heâs one of the companions who will argue against leaving Amaranthine to burn - his instincts might tell him to run, but he cares too much about the survivors in Amaranthine to leave them to their fate.Â
Not to mention, canonically, spirit healers are kinda rare. They derive a lot of their power from spirits of compassion, which means earning spiritsâ trust and cooperation. A person who isnât compassionate probably wouldnât be able to earn that cooperation of a spirit of compassion in the first place. Not to mention his interest in being a healer in general - itâs a big part of his identity, to the point where in DA2, one of the things he worries most about is not being able to heal anymore because heâs so afraid that he or Justice will accidentally hurt one of his patients.
I think a lot of his attachment to the healer role is also tied up in his own internalized belief that he has to be a Good Mage in order to deserve freedom - it seems contradictory, itâs something that goes against his stated principles, mages shouldnât have to prove themselves and be âgoodâ mages according to the Chantryâs fucked up doctrine to deserve freedom and life and love, but he lived in the Circle for at least half his life and he definitely internalized a lot of the hateful messages they taught about mages. Fighting against those teachings is a constant battle for him - which also ties into his occasional crises of faith, because heâs an Andrastian and all the spiritual authorities in his life have taught him that heâs a non-person, that heâs inherently sinful and cursed and deserving of subjugation because heâs a mage.Â
So, he has a lot of moments of self-doubt. He has a lifetime of trauma and abuse that affect his present well-being. He has a lot of self-loathing and a lot of fear of himself (the latter esp after merging with Justice). He doesnât see himself as worthy of love or care, even if he talks passionately about how mages deserve those things - he often doesnât give himself the same consideration that heâs willing to give others. He has an incredibly complicated relationship with his own anger - because his anger is totally and completely justifiable, but it scares him, because he associates rage and anger with demons and loss of control. (I think a big source of the conflict btwn he and Justice is how they differ re: embracing and accepting anger. For Justice, that anger is righteous fury, itâs justified, itâs a source of passion and change. For Anders, itâs a source of fear and insecurity a lot of the time. I think a lot of their miscommunication is rooted in that fear.)
But Anders works himself half to death trying to help as many people as he can for as long as he can, and even though heâs barely making a dent in all the suffering he sees in the world, even though heâs risking everything, he just keeps going, because thatâs how strongly he believes and thatâs how much he cares. Every mage he helps escape the Gallows, every patient he helps in his clinic is worth it to him. That kind of perseverance in the face of hopelessness and doubt and a world set against you is really admirable to me.
And I also like how clear it is that it doesnât come easy to him. Itâs not just some inspiration porn âyou can do anything you set your mind to if you just try :)â thing. He stumbles a lot. He fails a lot. He spends most of DA2 in a constant state of anxiety and desperation (esp since he really doesnât get much support from the people closest to him, except like⌠Justice and Hawke, if you play Hawke in a supportive role). Heâs idealistic, but he canât help but dip into periods of hopelessness and depression and doubt - partly because he has a mood disorder, partly because thatâs just⌠expected for someone whoâs seen as much shit as he has. His life is messy and heâs tired and it shows. But even when heâs running, heâs fighting. Sometimes, survival is in itself a form of rebellion and heâs a walking example of that. He is stubborn and although sometimes itâs a negative, it also has its perks. And that passion doesnât just manifest as rage - itâs also love, because lbh, he is a hopeless romantic (in a dorky, endearing way at times) and in his romance route he loves Hawke fiercely. Â
Itâs a shame that he didnât get more positive character development in DA2 (itâs no secret how resentful I am toward the writers, he and Justice really deserved better). I headcanon him over time learning how to communicate and coexist with Justice; learning to practice self-care and be kinder to himself; more fully accepting that he has a right to be angry and he doesnât have to prove that heâs deserving of personhood or love.
And he has a fair amount of flaws for sure - he has a tendency to project his insecurities onto others (e.g. Merrill), heâs not a good ally to other marginalized groups (e.g. elves), he sometimes lashes out at others when they donât deserve it (which, although I understand why he behaves that way, it still isnât fair to others who are on the receiving end), he was manipulative in the âJusticeâ quest (I understand his motivations but despite his intentions it wasnât acceptable behavior) - but I think he has an ability to better himself in those areas and I like to headcanon that personal growth for him. (Thatâs not to say I want him to be a flawless character - nobodyâs perfect, and a flawless character would be pretty flat and unrealistic, but I also like when characters are allowed to have personal growth in a positive direction.)
I guess, in all, heâs an interesting, likable, and relatable character for me - I wish the writers treated him better, I have a lot of criticisms wrt how he (and Justice) were written (including how Anders was treated as a bipolar character), and Iâm also willing to criticize him where itâs deserved (I have a whole tag full of meta w/ my criticisms of him) - but overall heâs one of my faves.
 Tbh the reason why DA2 is my fave game in the series (despite all of my criticisms of the writing in it, esp Act 3) is the characters. Hawke is my favorite protag and DA2 has probably my favorite companion group - like, Anders, Merrill, Fenris, Isabela, and Varric are some of my fave characters in the whole series - so the characters are ultimately what make me like that game. Â
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idk if you knew of this, given that you haven't played much DA:I (not that I blame you; it's a bad game), but in one of the DLCs it's revealed that the Avaar frequently interact with spirits, with Avaar mages merging + de-merging with spirits as part of their training. I was wondering how you felt about this? I think it's great to know it's canonically possible for Anders & Justice to separate if they wanted to, but I also feel like it diminishes Anders' story line in DA2?
Iâve only done one full playthrough of DA:I (I tried a second but couldnât get through it because it just puts me in such a bad mood). BUT I did play that DLC and I liked it better than the entirety of the main game. Mostly because of all the lore we got on the Avvar.Â
Personally I didnât feel like it diminished Andersâ storyline in DA2, really. I think it actually adds to it.Â
Anders grew up in the Circle from age 12 on, and every bit of information he got about magic was from the Chantryâs perspective. Thereâs so much about magic he doesnât know specifically because he was a Circle mage and that information was deliberately and systematically withheld from him and other Circle mages, to keep them suppressed and dependent and demoralized. Circle mages are isolated from the rest of society. They have little to no contact with non-mages outside the Circle. Theyâre taught only what the Chantry allows â which is synonymous with what benefits the Chantry. Alternative views â including those of the Avvar, the Chasind, the Dalish, Tevinter, etc. â have no place in the Circle. Anders is ignorant about a lot of things because he grew up in an echo chamber where dissidence was punished and information was heavily restricted.Â
Anders doesnât know that possession is reversible because heâs been taught all his life that it isnât, that itâs a death sentence. The Chantry might not even know much about Avvar beliefs and practices, but even if they did, they still have a vested interest in promoting the idea that possession is always bad and always irreversible, because thatâs one of the main reasons they give for why mages are dangerous and need to be imprisoned and controlled. Anders not knowing this key bit of information fits right in with this overall narrative.Â
Also, although Anders is obviously pro-mage liberation, he still internalized a lot of negative beliefs about himself both as a mage and as a person in general. Mages shouldnât have to prove themselves as worthy of life or freedom any more than non-mages, but mages in the Circle are nonetheless forced to prove that theyâre both trustworthy and useful enough to not be made Tranquil or killed. So, even in Kirkwall, Anders is still hung up on the idea that he has to be a âgoodâ mage, and unfortunately the criteria that he was taught for what counts as a âgoodâ mage is pretty restrictive and unrealistic. He spends a lot of time hating and fearing himself, especially for those things that he has been indoctrinated to associate with âbadâ mages â e.g. being possessed. Itâs also why he has so much trouble reconciling the fact that blood magic isnât always bad.Â
The fact that spirit possession is actually reversible doesnât change Andersâ characterization or development in that respect. The inner conflict is less about whatâs actually real and more about what Anders was taught to believe, and gradually breaking free of that. Whether the possession is reversible also doesnât change the fact that Anders feels like he breaks everything he touches and a lot of his guilt is related to how he feels like he somehow tainted Justice. Reversing the possession wouldnât get rid of that guilt he feels over how he (in his opinion) hurt his friend. That part of his characterization is intact regardless of whether Anders eventually learns that possession can be undone.Â
But aside from all that, I personally headcanon that Anders and Justice are able to heal their relationship over the years, learn new ways of communicating, and learn how to copilot in a way that works for both of them. It eventually gets to a point where it feels natural and they couldnât imagine separating from one another, even if they do eventually learn itâs possible. So I guess for me, the new lore added by the Jaws of Hakkon DLC doesnât really ruin Andersâ DA2 storyline for me because I already headcanon his relationship with Justice as something he wouldnât want to reverse even if he could (obvi in Act 1 he probably wouldâve reversed it if he could, but in my headcanon, by Act 3 heâs much more at peace with it).Â
Question: when we first meet anders in Awakening do you think he killed the templars that we see on the ground, or is that not something he would do because he could be punished if he did get captured later?
(sorry itâs taken so long for me to answer this!)
Anders says the darkspawn killed the templars and I think heâs telling the truth there. He also says he doesnât feel sorry for them that they died, and heâs also telling the truth there, lmao - and I donât really blame him for that. But I donât think he killed them.
Anders is smart. Heâs impulsive sometimes, heâs faaar better at short-term planning than he is at long-term planning, and heâs defiant as hell (often recklessly so), but heâs very aware of his position in the world.
He pushes just far enough that he can get away with without being killed or made Tranquil. He pushes far enough that he will be punished for it with physical abuse and (ultimately) a whole year of solitary confinement, but he stops short of doing things that would give the templars an excuse to kill him. He even uses those exact words - âgive them an excuseâ. Heâs well aware that heâs walking on a razorâs edge, and heâs also well aware that he wonât be able to get away with it forever, but it doesnât make him back down, because the minute he does, they win, in his mind.
To him, this is the most defiant thing he can possibly do: disobey and then have the audacity to survive no matter what they throw at him. He knows they have power over him, but he isnât going to make it easy for them, even if heâs repeatedly punished for it. And I think itâs what keeps him going - if he stopped fighting, he would lose the will to live.
But we also see that he knows heâs at the end of his rope. The templars who arrive to apprehend him accuse him of killing his templar guards, and he knows thereâs nothing he can do to make them believe heâs innocent - that even with no evidence, theyâll seize the opportunity to get rid of him once and for all, because as much as they say heâs just a nuisance, they also see him as a threat to their power and control. Heâs an example of a mage who wonât bend to their will, and it hurts their ego and threatens their status. They are looking for an excuse to kill him.Â
Last time he was brought back to the Circle, he was put in solitary confinement for an entire year. Heâs looking at more solitary, or worse, if heâs brought back to the Circle again, and he knows it. Itâs no wonder heâs so willing to join the Wardens despite the risks. Itâs a choice between death now or death later (which is a theme that comes up again in DA2).
I think itâs also something that contributed to his decision to merge with Justice, tbh. Once the Warden-Commander left and he didnât have their protection anymore, he knew that it was only a matter of time before the templars came after him again. He knew that the Wardens probably wouldnât be bothered to protect him if it became too troublesome for them. Then Rolan, an ex-templar Warden showed up, and Anders figured (probably correctly) that he still had ties to the templars, which made Anders feel cornered, and - well - it was probably one of the final deciding factors making him want to merge with Justice and desert the Wardens. Â
Why would DA2 Anders spout the chantry's explanation of demons and spirits? Wouldn't his merger with justice allow him to know better?
In my interpretation?
Anders has endured pretty much an entire lifetime of abuse,and a lot of that abuse was spiritual abuse. That means heâs internalized a lot of toxic beliefs about himself and the world that heâs still struggling to unlearn. A lifetime of indoctrination telling you to fear everything you are is just not something that goes away easily. And one of the things the Chantry and Circle harp on the most is how scary the Fade and spirits are and how mages can never ever let their guard down even a little bit or theyâll get corrupted by demons or their own power/temptation/sin/weakness/whatever. Because mages just get held to a higher standard of scrutiny when it comes to this stuff than non-mages ever do.
Even before the Circle, he was taught to fear magic and spirits and demons. He was raised by a devoutAndrastian father who disowned him the moment he found out he was a mage - in Andersâ words: âMy father was glad to see me gone. He had been afraid, ever since the fire in the barn. Not just afraid of what I could do, but afraid of me, afraid my magic was punishment for whatever petty sins he imagined the Maker sat in judgment upon.â
Then he was forced into the Circle, which is an incredibly abusive environment for mages. The only perspective they get is an Andrastian perspective, specifically the Chantryâs interpretation of the Chant that tells them that mages are basically the source of evil in the world. Theyâre treated as abominations waiting to happen, taught to hate and fear themselves, and told they have no place in the world or at the Makerâs side, except as tools for the Chantry to use as they see fit. That theyâre not allowed to have freedom, love, family, or community - that those things are not for them, that they donât deserve them. That they donât count as people. That the Circle is the only place for them, because they canât be trusted to know whatâs best for themselves, and they canât be trusted around ânormalâ people. That they should count themselves as lucky for the Circleâs and the Chantryâs abusive brand of paternalism and forced helplessness. That theyâre alive because the Chantry allows them to live, and that they should be grateful for it. Theyâre never allowed to forget that.
This is the sort of thing that children are subjected to from the moment they arrive at the Circle. Under that sort of strict indoctrination, itâs no wonder so many of them turn out to hate and fear themselves. One of the most striking examples we see is Keili in DA:O, who literally thinks the best thing she and her fellow mages can do for the world is kill themselves - that theyâre inherently sinful and their only chance for salvation is to just disappear from the world (some screenshots of things she says here). We also see mages in the Gallows talk that way, too (screenshots here).
That is the kind of environment Anders spent many of his formative years in - he was forced into the Circle at age 12, which means he spent his teen and young adult years (during which identity formation is a key part of psychological and emotional development) hearing this and only this: youâre lesser; youâre more prone to temptation than non-mages (and if you do fall to temptation you will be held more accountable for it than any non-mage would); if youâre not constantly on guard against yourself, you will become a monster; if youâre victimized by a demon, it is your fault and youâre the monster, not a victim (even though a non-mage would be seen as a victim under similar circumstances - e.g. Cullen, when heâs victimized by demons during âThe Broken Circle,â is seen as victim, even though none of the mages systematically thrown at the mercy of demons during their Harrowings are seen as victims); etc.
Like, so much of a mageâs supposed âeducationâ in the Circle is basically being told over and over and over again that at any given moment you could âfailâ to be a âgoodâ mage and be overwhelmed by demons - and that, if that happens, itâs your own fault for being too weak and not faithful enough. They arenât encouraged to try to understand the Fade or spirits or magic - theyâre only taught to fear them and hate the part of themselves that connects them to the Fade. Alternative beliefs are censored and stifled. All they hear is that the Fade is scary, spirits can never be trusted, and demons are everywhere. And questioning those beliefs could be a death sentence, because any sort of curiosity or doubt or anything else that can be singled out as âtemptationâ or potential weakness can get a mage killed or made Tranquil without even a chance at a Harrowing. If the fear of demons by itself isnât enough to keep a mage from questioning, the threat of death or Tranquility often is.
The existence of the Harrowing only drives that point home. It serves no functional purpose aside from terrorizing mages, keeping them in line, and creating a hierarchy among them, to keep them divided and alienated from one another. It does absolutely nothing to make a mage immune to demonic possession or to strengthen their control over their magic. It doesnât do anything to predict or change how they might use their magic in the future or under varying circumstances. It doesnât prepare them for anything (they arenât even told ahead of time what the Harrowing entails, or even when theyâll be taken for it - theyâre just woken up in the middle of the night by surprise and taken to the Harrowing Chamber and told theyâre going into the Fade to prove themselves). Literally all it does is throw them at the mercy of a demon to scare the hell out of them and give the templars an excuse to cull the âweakâ - if a mage takes âtoo longâ (which seems arbitrarily defined), theyâre killed. Mages arenât even the only ones who can be tempted by or possessed by demons - we see non-mages get tempted and possessed by demons all the time throughout the games - but mages are the only ones forced to undergo a Harrowing, and they are never seen as victims for being targeted or possessed by demons, even though non-mages are.
All of this is to say: Anders was raised to live in abject fear of demons. Heâs a spirit healer, too, meaning he works with benign spirits frequently and he has to be even more hypervigilant about what he lets in and what spirits he interacts with. Beyond just being afraid of what demons could do to him, heâs also very fixated on the need to be a good mage, to prove to himself and everyone else that heâs not weak, that he does deserve to be treated like a person. Now, no one should ever have to prove their personhood or that they should have basic rights, but thatâs the position mages have been put in: they have to prove that theyâre as deserving of basic rights as anyone else - and even then, as Anders says in Awakening, thereâs nothing a mage can actually do to prove themself. Theyâre condemned because of what they are, regardless of what they actually do.
But this mandate of âprovingâ themselves is really effective in keeping them suppressed, too - the Circle presents itself as a faux meritocracy. The Chantry defines what counts as a âgoodâ and ârespectableâ mage, praises those who are appropriately submissive (gives the âgoodâ ones slight privileges over other mages, but never so much privilege as a non-mage would have), and punishes those who rebel too much (with death, Tranquility, or torture - e.g. a year of solitary confinement for Anders, or lashes for any Gallows mage who so much as speaks to a civilian). You get mages fighting amongst themselves - blaming their fellow mages who donât toe the line for how mages are treated, rather than blaming the templars and the Chantry for oppressing them in the first place. Itâs a very effective divide-and-conquer way of keeping mages subdued and having them turn on one another instead of on the oppressive institutions keeping them subdued. Tie obedience to self-worth, teach that from the time theyâre children, and you effectively declaw a large portion of mages, so to speak.
Especially when religion is brought into the mix, because then itâs not just about self-worth, itâs also about faith and what the Maker and Andraste think. The dehumanization of mages is framed as something divinely ordained rather than orchestrated by everyday people, which gives it authority above and beyond mortal matters. Itâs not just the Chantry or templars or non-mages in general who see you as lesser: itâs your own god. Being told time and time again that your Maker thinks thereâs something about you that is inherently wrong and bad, that thereâs no place at the Makerâs side for you unless you submit and be perpetually apologetic just for existing? That takes a toll.
Anders internalized a lot of this stuff. How could he not? Again, this is the echo chamber he grew up in. And he struggles against it. He really, really does. Heâs in a constant process of trying to redefine his faith to make room in it for people like him. In Awakening, he talks about how Andraste - an ex-slave who led a violent rebellion against her oppressors - wouldnât approve of how mages are treated under the Chantry. In his manifesto, he talks about how magic should be seen as a gift of the Maker, not a curse. Heâs a devout Andrastian who has been rejected from his faith and is trying to reframe it in a way that accepts him and people like him.
But he also has a lot of self-doubt. There are times when he does refer to his magic as a curse, even though sometimes he argues itâs not. Faced with even the possibility that Corypheus really was an ancient magister immediately throws him into a crisis of faith - âif the Chantry was right about this, what else are they right about?â basically translates as âif my abusers were right about this, were they right about me?â Heâs been rebelling his whole life, but it also doesnât take much to make him doubt himself, especially since he doesnât even think highly of himself in the first place - heâs always talking about how he doesnât deserve friendship or love or care.
This stuff is really, really hard for him to shake. And on the surface, he does a good job at challenging and questioning at least some of what the Chantry taught him, but on a deeper level, a lot of this stuff is going to take a lot of work (and support!) for him to unlearn. And the things that are hardest for him to unlearn are these basic beliefs about spirits and demons, because again, demons pose a very real threat to him, and the Chantry and the Circle emphasized that threat to be even more frightening than it already is by itself. Demons are always on his radar, itâs an ever-present threat - which must be exhausting. But in his mind, fearing demons is what has kept him safe, not just physically but also spiritually and in terms of his own self-image. Falling to a demon doesnât just mean death, it also means failure in his mind - failure to be a âgoodâ mage, failure to prove himself as being just as much a person as any non-mage. Itâs all very much tied up in his insecurities and self-loathing.Â
So itâs no wonder merging with Justice throws him so much. Justice challenges what Anders thinks he knows about spirits and demons and the Fade - and what Anders thinks he knows is also whatâs been, in his mind, keeping him safe all these years. Loss of control - whether itâs being able to control himself and his own power, or being controlled by others like he has for most of his life - is arguably one of Andersâ biggest fears. It makes sense given how much of Andersâ life revolves around control as a concept - control over himself (against demons, against templars), control over his magic, control over his own life and future (something he never had in the Circle, and to some extent still doesnât have). Demons are probably one of the first things that come to mind when Anders thinks about losing control of himself - itâs what the Circle taught him, after all. So when Justice âtakes overâ and it feels to Anders like âlosing control,â Anders starts to question whether Justice might be becoming a demon (even though, imo, thatâs not at all the case).
Anders has trouble moving beyond that spirit vs. demon dichotomy. He tries to fit Justice into an either/or category, but itâs just not that simple. Thatâs why Anders goes back and forth so much - sometimes he gets defensive about how Justice isnât a demon, and then sometimes he catastrophizes over what if Justice is a demon? Anders has trouble finding peace with that grey area (and it doesnât help that Anders doesnât even have the most stable sense of his own identity). Those shifts in perspective are also often linked to Andersâ mental state at any given time - when heâs depressed or anxious, he tends to catastrophize more and slip into that âI ruin everythingâ rumination spiral (and those are the times he starts up with the âIâm an abomination/Justice is a demonâ thing).
When he first tells Hawke about Justice, itâs almost like heâs idealizing a memory - âheâs not my friend Justice anymore, heâs vengeance now; my anger corrupted himâ - because Anders is prone to catastrophizing and blaming himself anyway, and itâs just what he defaults to when things donât turn out the way he expected. But Justice was never flawless in the first place. Justice always talked about vengeance as a possible form that justice could take. This isnât something new that Justice got from Anders - itâs just that Anders has a tendency to blame anything he perceives as negative on himself.
What also scares Anders, I think, is how readily Justice embraces Andersâ anger. Of course he does. To Justice, Andersâ anger would seem righteous - itâs an entirely valid response to oppression and abuse. It isnât inherently destructive - it can be channeled to change things for the better. But Anders associates his anger with loss of control - how often did the Chantry talk about the dangers of rage demons, of losing control of your emotions and making yourself vulnerable to demons? - so the fact that Justice is so okay with that anger is probably a red flag in Andersâ perception, even though itâs⌠not actually a bad thing (imo).Â
Anders has trouble processing the fact that spirits just arenât as black-and-white as he was taught, so when Justice shows signs of things that Anders was taught to associate with demons, instead of saying âmaybe this isnât as simple as I thought,â he stays within the Andrastian framework and jumps right to âdoes this mean Justice is a demon now?â (Merrill is right when she points out that Anders might benefit from questioning the Chantryâs rigid teachings about spirits.)
I think that Anders can learn to challenge these beliefs, but itâs just gonna take time and support. He doesnât suddenly âknow betterâ just by merging with Justice because he doesnât actually have straightforward access to Justiceâs thoughts - he admittedly has trouble even distinguishing between his own thoughts/emotions and Justiceâs a lot of the time, unless itâs something theyâre in direct disagreement about (e.g. Andersâ romantic interest in Hawke, lmao). Anders canât talk directly to Justice anymore to sort through this stuff, so he jumps to conclusions that (imo) are distorted by his own negative self-image. He used to be able to talk to Justice when they disagreed (which they did often, and they both grew from talking through those disagreements and explaining their differing perspectives). But now, when Anders doesnât understand something, all he can do is just assume (and what Anders tends to do is assume the worst). He ends up pushing Justice away instead of trying to understand him, which is obviously unhealthy for both of them because theyâre sharing a body and mind now.
Then consider also that one of Justiceâs biggest fears is probably becoming a demon, and... well, it would be easy for Anders to be influenced by that without even realizing it. And honestly, Anders constantly worrying about whether Justice is a demon is not good for Justice, either. Which is why itâs important for Anders to be able to let go of some of that fear.Â
tl;dr - Whatâs holding Anders back is a fear of questioning what he thinks he knows. Justiceâs presence doesnât solve that - and in some ways, it makes Anders cling even harder to his sense of certainty about spirits and demons, because otherwise he feels vulnerable.
It might seem strange for someone who is otherwise so willing to challenge the Chantryâs doctrine, but there are just some things that Anders is hesitant to challenge too strongly, and the spirit/demon thing is one of them. Believing that thereâs a strict dichotomy between spirits and demons, and that he has a good handle on which are which, allows him an illusion of safety - and safety is not something he has much of in his life. Admitting that itâs just not that simple is a scary thing for him by itself, and thatâs without factoring in him being an abuse survivor who is still trying to shake the toxic things his abusers forced him to believe about himself and the world.
I think he can learn, though. Itâll just take time and support and patience, and he needs to be able to feel relatively safe enough to begin seriously challenging these beliefs. Heâs just not in a safe place in Kirkwall, physically or psychologically - at least not as far as we get to see in the game itself. (I have headcanons about him and Justice learning to coexist better over the years, but the game doesnât reflect that.)
Hopefully that makes sense - was kind of distracted by construction noises outside during most of this so hopefully itâs not incoherent or too repetitive or anything. :P