LittleMinx

mark: did someone order a large pizza?

me:

It's not like one of the first things we learned about Sam was that he lost his best friend right in front of his own eyes.

It's not like the very first thing that happened to Monica was her finding out that her mother died while she was gone.

It's not like Valkyrie lost her entire sisterhood and became an alcoholic to numb the pain.

It's not like Rhodey watched his best friend sacrifice himself.

Just to be clear and so you know who’s behind the keyboard I’m the internet’s worst nightmare: a white woman (North African but transparent af). And I have NOT seen the show (I’m behind, I’m so behind), but I actually believe that it’s irrelevant.

I’m not gonna quote the entire interview (but please do read it because the first half is actually really insightful on the importance of being Captain America for Mackie and what it represents) because it would simply be to long, however I will use a bit more context than what’s usually cited.

The other half of Sam’s journey on the show is the transformation of his relationship with Bucky Barnes (Sebastian Stan) from simmering resentment to a lasting and profound friendship. That translated into several scenes of emotional and physical familiarity between Sam and Bucky that some fans interpreted as a budding romance — similar to how some Marvel fans desired Bucky and the first Captain America, Chris Evans’ Steve Rogers, to be a couple.

So this paragraph starts the second half of the interview and informs us of the quality of the characters friendship and its evolution. The familiarity (the heck is that supposed to mean) is important, as it breaks a standard in how “men” are supposed to act: crying, hugging, being open about their emotions… We know that it “breaks a standard” as it was easily interpreted as being more than a simple friendship. It therefore implies that some people refute that idea of intimate (or normal) friendship.

Mackie points out that he’s played in these kinds of waters before, in an episode of “Black Mirror” in which he and Yahya Abdul-Mateen II star as best friends who play an immersive, virtual reality video game that allows them to simulate being a man and woman in a sexual relationship. But he resists an interpretation that Sam and Bucky are sexually or romantically attracted to each other.

We now know that Mackie is not against playing roles that are “ambiguous”. I have not seen that episode of Black Mirror so my deduction might be the most obvious of the century but the relationship between his character and Yahya Abdul-Mateen II’s does have romantic homosexual undertones, they seem to act in a way that kicks that door wide open. For Sam and Bucky, it must remain close (according to Mackie (but spoiler: I agree))

“So many things are twisted and convoluted. There’s so many things that people latch on to with their own devices to make themselves relevant and rational,” he says. “The idea of two guys being friends and loving each other in 2021 is a problem because of the exploitation of homosexuality. It used to be guys can be friends, we can hang out, and it was cool. You would always meet your friends at the bar, you know. You can’t do that anymore, because something as pure and beautiful as homosexuality has been exploited by people who are trying to rationalize themselves. So something that’s always been very important to me is showing a sensitive masculine figure. There’s nothing more masculine than being a superhero and flying around and beating people up. But there’s nothing more sensitive than having emotional conversations and a kindred spirit friendship with someone that you care about and love.”

Now, the choice of word is more than questionable but the link between the previous paragraph and this one makes it clear that what is “twisted” and “convoluted” is the interpretation of the nature of Sam and Bucky’s relationship. He is not talking about homosexuality here (it would make no sense given the way the sentence is phrased). My best guess would be that it’s the scenes and moments shared between Sam and Bucky (the moments of familiarity) that are used to build a narrative which takes away from the nature of their friendship. In our quest to normalize and give representation to the LGBTQIA+, we denormalize other behaviors, such as a normal healthy friendship between two males (be it Sam and Bucky or Bucky and Steve). I do believe that for Mackie it was important to highlight Sam and Bucky’s friendship, and that seeing people turn it into a possible Stucky 2.0 “scared” him, in a way.

“Sam and Steve had a relationship where they admired, appreciated and loved each other,” Mackie continues. “Bucky and Sam have a relationship where they learn how to accept, appreciate and love each other. You’d call it a bromance, but it’s literally just two guys who have each other’s backs.”

What’s important for him is how their friendship evolved, how the two characters grew closer. While on the one hand we had Jake Gyllenhaal and Tom Holland embrace their real-life closeness and joke about it saying “it’s not a bromance, it’s a romance”, here Mackie calls it for what it is: a friendship.

We all try to see ourselves in the characters we love and for this reason I think that it would’ve been better had Anthony not adressed the shippers at all. It’s not like it’s going to change anything, shippers will keep shipping.

However, he is still allowed to express his opinion, even if you don’t agree with him. I believe (correct me if I’m wrong) that Sebastian is perfectly fine with shippers, and that’s his right. Mackie has the right to disagree (respectfully, which he did.)

It is clear to me that Sam and Bucky’s friendship is important and means a lot to Anthony. And I’m probably missing a whole other side of this debate since I’m, again, transparent af. I haven’t been in Mackie’s shoes so I can’t truly appreciate just how important being Captain America is to him and that may, also, influence his opinion on, and reaction to this whole debate.

Anyway this is way longer that I wanted it to be and than most people will care. I just hope I made sense.

EDIT: Also, in case I didn’t make it clear enough: if you want to ship, ship away, it’s your right too.

EDIT2: I may add a keep reading thingy tomorrow ‘cause this is long af. But I’m too lazy to get out of bed to do it now so, my bad!

Just remember to be respectful and to love one another.

Anthony Mackie was definitely talking about how mlm relationships tend to be sexualized and fetishized by a lot of people out there. He didn't especify who, he didn't say “the lgbtq+ community sexualizes all male characters” or “if you ship sambucky you're a fetishist”. When he gets asked about that, it's not exactly about sambucky, but yes about male relationships as a whole, and if we're referring to that, he's actually right. Shipping only mlm couples and sexualizing every friendship between men is fetishization, and it happens A LOT.

It is okay to want to explore and talk about the friendship between Sam and Bucky, which definitely exists, and unfortunately, they are not canon, and it's not their obligation to necessarily ship them. That part of the characters is not up to them, and whether the fans choose to ship them or not, is not up to them too. He points out the details about Sam's relationship with Steve, and with Bucky. He says:

“Sam and Steve had a relationship where they admired, appreciated and loved each other. Bucky and Sam have a relationship where they learn how to accept, appreciate and love each other. You'd call it a bromance, but it's literally just two guys who have each other's backs."

While his statement is literally what happens in the movies and in tfatws, it is also okay to want something more than just friendship from those characters, and it's also okay to ship them, and somehow look for some queer representation in them, since the mcu 'til now, has a massive lack of that. You also barely see interracial queer couples out there in TV, so maybe a lot of people tend to rely on the hope of what they might become/might be, looking for a bit of their own representation as well too, and that's so okay.

I also believe that some parts of his speech can be very confusing, a poor choice of words in my opinion, and a lot of people out there might read it all wrong. It doesn't mean you can't ship sambucky, or not post your fanfics, fanarts and headcanons about them. He never said that you can't or shouldn't ship them, he simply points out that not all male relationships have to be romantic to have love, or show any signs of affection. It's up to you to take it as romantic or not.

I saw a lot of people, especially non-black mcu stans and lgbtq+ folks using his words to throw hate and be racist towards him. I totally understand if you are upset with his statements, but think a lot about what you are going to say, and do not make anti-black declarations because you won't be right. You'll just be racist, and an asshole.

…

Some random person: You two are so cute together! How did you meet?

Bucky: I hit on him at the gym

Sam: You side-eyed me from across the weight room and then followed me out into the parking lot and bench-pressed my car

Bucky: