ShortyPink_Ink

The way I see it, it’s all about “recognition” and “functionality”, which creates the commentary on how this relationship is presented and identifiable in fiction, not to mention between real life people. “Recognition”, in a sense, happens on the individual level, but can either be funneled through what otherwise is already established in society—this being what makes it something to BE identified by the individual—and/or, it can be gained and tailored by personal experience by said individual.

In other words, “What it means to be a sibling” is going to be dependent upon what can be understood through an established concept and/or an individual’s recognition of this concept’s functionality. 

What? Expecting me to say: “Oh, it’s people who do this and this and this and this together…”? Yeah well, whatever I’d list down, it’d more than likely just be a component of what the “true” answer is, which is going to be interchangeable depending on who you ask and what they essentially recognize as a sibling relationship.  It makes you wonder then, is there really a definitive answer? I don’t know if I can truly say yes in a way beyond the literal (especially in having a relationship as opposed to only just being siblings by fact), but what can be observed and compared are the commonalities between people’s recognition of this functionality. Somewhere between that is where a general answer can be noted.

You’ll find this common for most things, whether about romance, siblings, family, personality traits, themes, etc.—how many times have you heard: “well I wouldn’t do that” or “this is totally this” or just simply, “I see it this way”. Be a part of any Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, Supernatural, etc.—ANY fandom, really and for more than just shipping. You’ll see this eventually.

Recognition of functionality. If it’s congruent with how someone can recognize it, then that’s what they’ll see it as. “I calls it as I sees it”, and all that.

This can go in a way of even symbolism or subtext that requires “pre-knowledge” outside of the text. These things are used a certain way because people decided it to…well, be understood a certain way. I mean, the color white being a symbol for this or that didn’t just happen out of thin air—this patterned usage and understanding was passed down as a way to be recognized and further utilized a particular way. More simple than that, like for adult jokes—these are purposely written in a way for an adult to understand because they’re expected to have the knowledge available to do so, where a child otherwise normally wouldn’t.

If we’re thinking about how do we get there—recognition—I tend to think about how the world essentially establishes these things as concepts to be understood.

For context, Misha Collins mentioned both Cas/Dean and Sam/Dean ships in a tweet, and I guess apparently people got offended by the mention of Sam/Dean? He wasn’t even comparing them, just mentioning ships within the fandom in a funny thing about Amazon or something. Like guys, they literally even made fun of Sam/Dean in the show—all the production staff should be pretty aware of all this shipping stuff in fandom.

This, however, does make me question the mindset here about those against incest shipping.

Are people offended by incest purely by the premise of having romance between those who are related by blood, or is it offensive by having romance with those you just share a related by blood emotional connection with?

At first, the answer seems to be strictly due to the blood relation. But then….why? Seeing how consistent people are okay with shipping those who solely have the emotional connection, I feel the real answer seems to be because a fan can’t reconfigure blood related character relationships in their headcanons like they want to without suffering that cognitive dissonance of platonic ≠ romance.

Which, this solely being based on the blood relation, is so….hypocritical?

This is where I start to question people’s logic.

Some people in any fandom have no problem shipping characters who only have the emotional connection of platonic familial relationships, that is, if they’re NOT related by blood. Then it’s good, then it should be safe to think about a “brother” being with a “brother” and…..

Hm.

See, usually you’d have people ship this example on the premise that the emotional connection changes. In other words, they wouldn’t view each other as brothers anymore if they were to be in a romantic relationship. Problem solved. Let’s write the fics.

But, why reconfigure something that is important and represented for the characters in the context, even when there is no deviation or conflict with that established emotional connection? If the real issue here is “don’t have romance with a sibling”, why would it matter whether or not they’re related by blood? To ease your mind if you do want to ship them?

What?

Especially in Supernatural, a show where literally Dean himself talks so much about how “family don’t end with blood”—this is one of the strongest, meaningful themes in the show. Why the hell should someone reconfigure the relationship if what is presented in the context IS a platonic familial relationship in the first place? How’d you even get there?

You’re still shipping brothers, as they’re presented and meant to be identified as. It reminds me of the bullshit with Sesshomaru and Rin shippers back in the first Inuyasha series—it doesn’t matter if you headcanon Rin as older, how did you even get the idea of shipping them when all that existed is the relationship between an adult and child? You’re shipping an adult Rin with an adult Sesshomaru second, but you’re shipping a child Rin and adult Sesshomaru first, otherwise the thought wouldn’t even occur. Who looks at the relationship between someone who looks like an adult and a literal seven year old and fantasizes about romance blossoming there? Especially when it follows all the patterns of the adult acting as a hogosha (guardian—parent sentiment)?

What the fuck?

If what exists in the context is what it is, then that remains the basis of your ship no matter how you reconfigure it in your head. So if they’re brothers on-screen, even if emotionally, that’s still the foundation for you.

That is to say, I don’t care as much about incest shippers as I would ones that are like, pedophilia. The severity there is much worse, obviously, and I am not by any means comparing the actual crux of these issues. What’s being compared here is the shipping logic in the fandom—where the type of cognitive dissonance happening is the same with shippers rationalization for how they ship characters. Incest shipping, blood or not, is much better in comparison, not to mention the latter is, at least by the standards of the headcanon, not really this anymore because of the “change” of how the characters see each other.

Which is just, if that is something that is so important to them…

Well, I typically don’t care too much as long as fans aren’t trying to deny what the actual context is in actual discussions. You do you, I guess, that’s what shipping is for.

Which I mean, listen, I get the concentration of “eww, don’t be romantic with someone you share blood with”—I’m not exactly being an advocate here. But for me, my opposition is so much more based on the fundamentals of how we recognize and define those types of relationships. The romance concept naturally clashes with that of the platonic family relationships.

Just like with what Dean says, the above philosophy of recognition doesn’t “end with blood”. I don’t care for seeing incest anymore with people who aren’t actually related by blood because the existing meaning of family for an individual goes WAAY beyond that simplistic factor. Ya’ll know this.

But, apparently don’t care, I guess.

However, I just find this idea of being outraged by blood related incest shippers a bit fallacious when people also actively ship those who have the context of the emotional connection anyway—you know, something that is written and important for the characters. Stories that show a conflict with this, like one of the characters explicitly not feeling the same way, or if in the actual context, the deviation of this relationship is made—hell, I’ve read a manga where two people fall in love, but then LATER find out they’re related and have to struggle with the truth and their feelings—those situations are a bit more understandable, especially the latter in how we think about love. But like, man, if the context is literally about found family and that is their relationship without any sort of complication……

Is the aspect of the blood REALLY the thing that bothers you? Or is it really because only an emotional connection is something that can change without presenting a conflict for you?

If the way we recognize and appreciate familial bonds goes beyond blood, I find it odd that shipping philosophy doesn’t do the same. And then you get mad when you’re basically doing the same thing.

I just don’t get it.

Wow. This is getting ridiculous. All the people screaming at Square Enix NA for the localization/translations of FFVII Remake—you really should stop and think about what perspective you have at this moment. I understand though, really, and I’ll express why further down, but seeing the rationalization at the heart of these criticisms is making it difficult to not be frustrated at the fandom’s behavior.

A lot of you are really showing you haven’t spent the time understanding the localization/translation process that takes place within the company. Not to mention, that you refuse to listen to what the people who are officially involved with the game are telling you. This process in question directly involves the localization team internally in Tokyo at Square Enix Japan. A process that is accomplished alongside the developers and staff directly involved with the project in Japan. The recording sessions where people are physically location-wise isn’t one unified place, nor might be those who are outsourced to be a part of the process, but communication and involvement is retained through this process across the world. There are a myriad of paratext that describe this process that Square Enix has done for many different projects—Kitase talked about this for FFXIII, Nomura talked about it for KH3, and now Ben Sabin talks about it in multiple interviews for FFVIIR (here and here, go nuts). Ultimania interviews also typically cover it as well, the Asako Suga (Supervising Dialogue Editor for most KH games) interview in the KH3 Ultimania is a very good one as well. Honeywood, who was responsible for beginning the steps to a better localization process after the OG FFVII, left the company with a good foundation here for what they do and how it’s achieved.

Differences based on the team, circumstances, and even those outsourced to assist should be considered for every project SE does, but the overall approach to localization/translation is done about the same way. Has been for years now, with the changeup being in what is affected by the goal of either closer or simultaneous releases between the different languages, especially ENG and JPN. It’s a joint effort and everyone is on the same side—if you have a complaint about how something was handled in the game, this isn’t the sole responsibility and accountability of one person or one division of the company. The localization team are still people who work on the game, the final product we receive, directly and deserve more recognition than being treated like outsiders to, what could be considered, the primary developers.

But, that’s even if the issues at hand are actually issues to begin with.

It’s absolutely okay if you don’t like the way a localization turned out, that’s totally fair to not be satisfied. If a fan’s mindset behind translation/localization is to get the same experience of that of the original language, then I can’t blame you for such a goal—if anything I feel the same way, and objectively that’s a good goal to have. Additionally, it’s also fair to even have a preference between any of them, and I definitely encourage learning and understanding whatever the primary language is for a game.

However, I would implore you to also understand that this goal, through the effort and agreement of those creating the game, can be met in different ways, and analogous to that, a translation can be expressed in a multitude of ways within a context. There is an allowance of flexibility to capture the context in whatever way they see fit—and if it has a different approach or wording than the original, that does not make it “wrong” or a “mistranslation”. This type of thinking is very limited in how translation/localization works, especially for a creative project, and it fails to acknowledge the multitude of ways in which something can be said, and how contextual elements can influence the expression that can be made. There’s a difference between being wrong on a translation level by the book and being wrong contextually. It certainly can happen both ways, but often, fans will complain of things that aren’t contextually “wrong” to a consequential degree and that were intended to be the way it was in the target language.

I mean jeez, it’s all too typical that to a fan who has engaged in heated, and probably nonsensical, debate of LTD shit for 20 years would want to look at the differences through the lens of this offense. I’ve seen the same shit before in other fandoms and it’s stupidly petty.

Was it written for Olette to say “What a romantic story!” because the localization team are “Sokai” shippers? Or, is it because they saw the opportunity to add a more direct connotation to Olette’s response to Kairi telling her about Sora? You know, the person she literally has romantic storytelling with?

And for the hot topic, was Aerith’s lines in the train graveyard of claiming Cloud as her bodyguard there to preserve some apparent self-indulgent need to be “Clerith fans”? Or, was it done to express that light part of Aerith’s character in this situation where both other people are clearly much more tense? With a line of dialogue that characteristically match what she is physically doing?

“Context” is multiple and broad in meaning. The context of the circumstance and the responses by either characters did not change in either the JPN and ENG version, but there was however a different approach to their lines that emphasized a certain connotation that already fits other elements of the context of the scene. It really isn’t an issue objectively or false in nature, and there’s no means in which you can say it’s not intended to be what it is when the people with the authority of working directly on the project collaborated with the very same people you’re saying it goes against. It’s made, finalized, and meant to be what it is by decision.

C’mon, if you’re actually comprehending the multitude of resources that describe the localization process SE as a whole does for their games, knowing this is done with cooperation with the developers and those who can even fluently speak ENG and JPN who are on the development team [e.g. Yasue for KH3]—how can you truly have the audacity to say that something isn’t intended for how it was written in the target language? Really. Now there are certainly mistakes and contradictions that can be pointed out that actually DO change context and affect the understanding of the game’s world—FFXIII being the example for lore concepts—but people going line by line and pointing out the most inconsequential differences, things that don’t actually change the context of the scene or contradict all pertaining elements/persons involved….

Wow. Let’s talk about the actual mistakes that matter for understanding the story and not a line of dialogue that hits your personal nerve regarding shipping.

Wanting the game’s localization/translation to be as close to the original language [specifically, the primary language of those creating it] isn’t a problem, but the behavior and rational I’m seeing that treats this process by the lens of the LTD definitely is. Not to mention, the lack of understanding that the above goal can be met on a contextual level that has every right to be additive in whatever way the official team who produce these games see fit in the chosen language. The FFVII fandom really needs to stop treating everything as some conspiracy and mal-intent to give a false version of a game that everyone’s, including the development staff, efforts have been put into. This commentary that SE NA are the ones to blame, that there is even blame deserved to be had, and that the translation approached wasn’t intended by all parties involved in the process—how about we wait until someone from the development team somehow reveals that the localization managers rebelled against everything they worked on together and the end result was different than expected.

1. She withstood the Demon Tide attack

2. Stopped Sora’s heart and body from fading away

3. Acted as the “light in the darkness” for Sora’s Lich sequence

A lot of people correlate #3 to #2 because of Sora’s line of “You stopped me from fading away”, but there are more layers that can be inferred to it outside of what she does for Sora in the Final World. The narrative and imagery invokes the idea that Kairi was also responsible for keeping Sora [and Jiminy] from being killed once again by the Demon Tide AND leading him to Olympus Coliseum where Riku’s heart was. Remember Chirithy’s words right before Sora departs the Final World before the Lich sequence:

ENG: Look for the light in the darkness!

JPN: 闇を照らす光を探して (Look for the light that illuminates the darkness)

What Chirithy says acts as the basis of Sora’s understanding of Kairi being the light in the darkness—even in the JPN version this realization is word for word ( 闇を照らす光 ) in what Sora is referring to when he finds Kairi in the Demon Tide. The “kept me from fading away” is appropriate for the initial Lich sequence because otherwise, Sora (and most likely Jiminy—where it’s kind of not explained deeply) would’ve just died all over again by the attack, unless I’m missing something there from why he and Jiminy survived that time around. It follows the light in the darkness statement, so dialogue-wise the meaning makes sense.

If we follow the narrative from there, that means that Kairi’s light [heart] acted as the key to the start of this sequence—particularly to get to Olympus Coliseum and later back to the Keyblade Graveyard. I’m assuming this is the reason why Sora saving Riku’s heart in the Lich sequence didn’t go against Young Xehanort’s statement of:

“What do you think the power of waking is? It’s for traversing hearts to reach worlds. Not for traversing worlds to reach hearts.”

Sora most likely unknowingly used her heart [light] to reach Olympus, whereas for everyone else he was searching the worlds to reach their hearts. That was him “looking for the light in the darkness”.

It’s also nice because it’s reflective of Re:Mind where Sora traces the connection to Riku’s heart to find the sixth piece of Kairi’s heart. Kairi helped Sora get to Riku, and Riku helped Sora get to Kairi—they acted as a trio even if they all weren’t completely aware of it. lol