I really appreciate all of your analysis of HIUH! The way you organize your arguments and support it with textual proof helps me better organize my own thoughts and feelings about it. Thank you!
You are very welcome! Itâs fun to write things out because it organizes my own thoughts too!
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OMG, the term starts again on Monday. My time for having brain space to publicly obsess over HIUH is coming to an end. (I will continue to privately obsess in my own head, of course â HIUH lives there rent free.) But there was so much more to say!
Anyway, letâs do Kastor and NikandrosâŚ
By contrast to all the amazing canon parallels, I am fascinated by the roles that @thickenmyblood has Kastor and Nikandros are playing in HIUH.
I mean, in canon, the two characters are very straightforward. Damen loves Kastor and Kastor is completely disloyal and prepared to kill Damen to get what he thinks he deserves. Damen loves Nikandros and Nikandros is completely loyal and would lay down his life for his true king.
But again, these are roles best suited to a pseudo-historical world of kingdoms. In each canon relationship, Damen, as the Crown Prince, holds a particular power (for Nikandros to cede to and for Kastor to resent and seek to destroy).
The absence of these royal dynamics in HIUH allows Damenâs relationships to Kastor and Nikandros to be delightfully more complex. And the two relationships/characters parallel and contrast with each other in interesting ways.
In terms of their relationships with Damen:
They each have the closest perspectives on Damenâs depression since all Damen does in the months after the breakup is go to work and sit around Nikandrosâ place.
They have known Damen the longest of anyone left in his life.
They each present relationships that Damen must work through in his process of introspection (though Damen does not know this about Nikandros initially).
They can each, for their own reasons, be incredibly dismissive of Damenâs feelings.
Interestingly, in terms of their characters, the other thing they have in common is that the source of some of their most problematic behavior is their resentment of a child.
Kastor resents Damen for having been favored by their father and not only chooses to blame Damen along with their father, but also assumes that, as a much younger child, Damen would have been able to perceive and understand their fatherâs favoritism.
Damen ignores him. âDad didnât force anyone to stay at the house. They worked for him, and he paid them for their work. Not everyone takes the holidays off. It doesnât mean dad was exploiting them.â
âI never said he was. I said he was paying them to play house with you.â
âWhat?â
âHe was too busy with work,â Kastor says, âand you were a half orphan. Do you actually think Hera, Chryses, and Brios wanted to be there? They had families too. They stayed because dad paid them, because he didnât want you to grow up unbalanced.â A snort. âNot that it worked out too well, in the end.â
Damenâs legs have gone numb. He thinks of standing, of walking out, but canât muster up the strength to do it.Â
Kastor goes on talking as if nothingâs happened. To him, it hasnât. âYou know, after we had lunch the other day I kept thinking about Hera and all your nannies. Every time I went over to dadâs house, you had something new. A toy, a bed, a fucking babysitter. It used to make me furious. But now?â He pours whatâs left of the wine. âNow I just feel sad for you.â
Kastor is drunk. Has been for a while now. He looks less like their dad like this, which Damen is glad for. Itâs always made him feel strange, the way Kastor can transform into someone older, with more authority, with just a gesture.Â
The polite thing to do would be to leave, quietly, and pretend this has never happened. Never bring it up again. Deny it, even, if necessary. Damen knows this. Damen has done this once before, for Laurent. He never brought up what happened at the company function all those years back. He should do the same now, for Kastor.
âWhy did it make you furious?â Damen says. âYou were too old for toys, and you had aâyou didnât need a babysitter. Your bed was bigger than mine.â
âItâs not about the fucking bed, Damianos.â
âWhat is it about then?â
Kastorâs hand goes pale around his glass, then back to normal. If he squeezes that hard again, the glass will break. âI canât do this,â he says, as he pushes himself away from the table. âItâsâIâm not fucking doing this.â
Damen stands as well. He feels like someone stuck on the wrong side of a mirror, his choice narrowed down entirely to another personâs. âDo what? Weâre just talking.â
âItâs never just talking when itâs you.â
The table between them seems to wobble, unsure of whether to shrink or stretch. Damen thinks this might be the closest heâs ever been to Kastor.Â
âThereâs nothing sad about having people work for you,â Damen says. He thinks that might be what Kastor was getting at earlier. Some internalized class shame. âThey spent the holidays with us because they were paid to, yes, but thatâs the way the world works. Would you go to work if you didnât get paid to do it? Dad firing nannies because he was indecisive or something isnât inherentlyââ
âIndecisive. Dad, indecisive ? Youâve officially lost your mind.â
Theyâre almost shouting again. This time, Damen doesnât care. âIf you would just explain what you mean instead of having me guess your fucking riddles like weâre ten years old, then maybe I wouldnât sound like Iâve lost it.â
âYouâre insane,â Kastor says, even louder than before. âYouâre just rewriting things to make them suit your craziness. Dad wasnât indecisive about your stupid nannies, Damianos. He kept firing them because you called them all mom and wanted them to practically live with you. It freaked him the fuck out. And honestly? I donât blame him. You freak me ââ
âDaddy?â
Kastor steps away from the table. All of the sudden, he is like a man changed, reformed. Even his voice comes out different. âDid we wake you up, sweetheart? Uncle Damen was just leaving.â
(Also, intriguing little snippet re: Laurent just snuck into that passage.)
But anyway, it is wholly unreasonable for Kastor to expect Damen at the age of having nannies to have recognized how his behavior based in the absence of an involved parent had been interpreted by adults and influenced their actions. And itâs very dismissive of Damenâs experiences growing up (which, to be fair, Damen dismissed in himself for a long time before Neo).
Kastor definitely stopped therapy too soon!
Nikandros, meanwhile, has lumped Nicaise (who came into Damenâs life at the age of eleven!!) in with Laurent as a toxic and manipulative force in Damenâs life.
Itâs obvious now to Damen that Laurent had been wrong at the coffee shop, wrong to assume Nicaise was on a crusade to spend more time with Damen. Nicaise has been inviting Damen placesâBerengerâs houses, Laurentâs own apartmentâbecause he knows Laurent will be there. Because he wants Damen and Laurent to be together again.
Damen ignores the prickling sensation in his chest. It doesnât exist, he tells himself, because why would he be upset to find out that a teenager doesnât actually want to spend time with him? Nothing about what theyâve been doing has been normal. Nicaise isnât normal.Â
Nikandrosâ words, years old, come back to him now. That kid doesnât care. Heâs not going to call you in five years on Fatherâs Day. Like a parentâs scolding, the memory has come far too late to be useful.
Nikandros is doing the mouth thing, that soured-up expression he canât hide when he wants to say something but knows he shouldnât. Aktis calls it his bitch face.
Damen breathes in. âJust say it.â
âDo you talk about Laurent?â
He does, sometimes. But itâs not a thing, itâs not often. Itâs always in passing. Still, saying no outright feels like cheating. âI mostly talk about Nicaise.â
The mouth thing worsens. Nikandros gets up. âIâm gonna get you more water.â
âDonât bother. Iâm not thirsty.â
âI am,â Nikandros says, and disappears into the kitchen.
The sound of rushing water travels from the kitchen to Damenâs ears, but itâs not loud enough to drown out Nikandrosâ voice. Damen doesnât know what heâs muttering about, the words low and cut off, and he doesnât care enough to ask. Itâs not hard to picture Nikandros, standing in front of the sink, glass of water in hand, sayingâwell, what heâs always said. That kid doesnât care. That kidâs fucking trouble.
âYou justâyou fucking love it.â Nikandros is walking again, half a circle, then back, then half a circle again. âYou fucking love being his dog. He calls, you answer. He asks, and you drop every single fucking thing for him.â
The thread stretches, wobbles. âI do.â
âAnd for what? Are you that desperate to play daddy?â
Damen doesnât reply.
Nikandros scrubs his face with both hands. âDamen. Damen . Iâmâdo you think heâs changed? Is that it? He hasnât. People like him donât change.â
People like him. âWhy donât you like Nicaise?â
âWhat?â
âNicaise,â Damen says, calmly, slowly, numbly. âYouâve never liked him. Why?â
âAre you being serious right now?â
Damen tips his head to the side, waits. His hands are not tingling anymore.
âWhat is there to like? That kidâs a fucking brat,â Nikandros says. âYou canât even take him to a family dinner without him making a scene, and heâs, what? Eighteen? Come on.â
âDid you tell him that? Did you call him a brat?â
Nikandrosâs mouth thins. He looks like Kastor. âDamen.â
âDid you?â
âAnswer me this. Have they been asking you for money again?â
âWhat?â Damen says. And then, as the thoughts trickle down: â Again ? What the fuck does that mean?â
An exhale, defeated. âI donât want to fight with you. Thatâs not why I called.â
âMaybe I do,â Damen says. âYou told me youâd stop. Time and time again. You said youâd stop bringing him up, bringing Nicaise up. But you wonât. You canât.â
âYou bring them up,â Nikandros says, âall the fucking time. What am I supposed to do? Smile and nod along, like it doesnât make me fucking sick? Like the way they take advantage of you isnât wrong?â
âWeâre not even together. Weâre not together. Do you hear the shit youâre saying? How is he taking advantageââ
âIs the kid there?â
Damen holds onto the counter. âItâs none of your business if he is.â
âSo, yeah, he fucking is. Itâs Friday night, and youâre stuck home babysitting that deranged little shit when heâs not your responsibility anymore. What? Is money tight? Canât he pay for a fucking nanny? Itâs Friday night, and he dumps his kid on you, and then he gets to go out and have fun, which is what you should be doing. Whatâs next, huh? Is he going to make you pay for his college tuition? Make you buy him an apartment when he drops out? Damen, if you let him, heâs going to fucking milk youââ
Nikandrosâ reaction to Nicaise makes me very angry! Thatâs why there are so many excerpts!
Okay, so we know now why Nikandros hates Laurentâand he wasnât entirely wrong (though he wasnât that right either)âbut Laurent and Nicaise are not one undifferentiated person. And the difference between the responsibility Laurent and Nicaise bear for their behavior based on their ages is HUGE.
Nikandros has chosen a completely unreasonable interpretation of Nicaiseâs trauma-induced behaviors. If a kid is struggling that much at that age, itâs not because theyâre inherently unkind, uncaring or manipulative â itâs because of something theyâve experienced that they have not been able to process!
Nikandros has also (perhaps to be protective) minimized and belittled Damenâs desire to parent Nicaise. I think we can see Nikandrosâ influence at the beginning of the story and in the time just before the beginning of the story after the breakup. At that time, Damen does not believe he is allowed to still parent Nicaise and has preemptively protected himself by not pursuing contact with Niciase post break-up. What Laurent and Nicaise have sometimes interpreted as Damenâs lack of care is actually, I believe, Damen in denial because he thinks he cares too much and that he is no longer able to give or express that care.
I think all this also gives us reason to reinterpret something else. In Chapter 19, I believe not for the first time, Laurent points out that Damen kept Nicaise compartmentalized from other parts of his life. Laurent takes this to mean Damen is embarrassed by Nicaise and doesnât want Nicaise for the long haul. But if we think back to Damenâs initial description of why he didnât want Nicaise to wear feminine-coded things, we see that it is a well-meaning but highly problematic effort to protect Nicaise from harm.
âOkay, then what was the problem? What made the things Nicaise wore girly?â
âThey were covered in glitter and sequins. He had this pair of shorts he loved, and they had this⌠pink patch sewn into one of the pockets.â Damen rubs his hands on his thighs again, not liking how damp they are, how tight his skin feels. âTo school, he wore normal clothes, but only because I insisted. On the weekends, heâd just play dress-up. At fourteen.â
âLetâs go back for a second,â Neo says. âYou keep mentioning school, Damen. Was that your main concern? The fact that Nicaise would be teased by his classmates for wearing certain things?â
âYes.â
Neo nods. âSo you thought you were helping Nicaise prevent bullying of some sort.â
Bullying. Damen tries not to roll his eyes. âYes,â he says again, because itâs true.
âThen what was the issue with Nicaise wearing those types of clothes at home during the weekend? No one was going to bully him there.â
âAre you honestly going to tell me thatâs normal?âÂ
An awkward silence settles over them. Damen thinks he shouldnât have used that word. Laurent had practically banned him from saying it at home, wouldnât even hear Damen out if ânormalâ was part of the argument, but this isnât home. This is Neoâs office, and so Damen should get to say whatever he wants.Â
âWhat do you think would have been the normal thing to do?â Neo says. The confusion Damen is feeling must show on his face, because Neo adds, âWhat I mean is⌠What sorts of clothes should Nicaise have been wearing at fourteen?â
âI donât know.â
âYou canât think of anything?â
âEr,â Damen says. âJeans?â
âGood, jeans. What else?â
âI donât know what kids wear these days. A t-shirt? Sneakers?â
âOkay. Now, what did you wear as a kid?â
That was over a decade ago, Damen wants to say. What does that matter? Why canât they talk about whatâs actually important here, which is Laurent dating a fucking stranger?Â
âI guess the same things. Jeans, t-shirts. Gym shorts.â
âCould it be that maybe what you think is normal for a fourteen-year-old to wear is just what you used to wear at fourteen?â
Damen blinks at him.
âI have nieces,â Neo says, âand they dress horribly, in my opinion. Fashion is very fast-paced. Most of the time it doesnât survive the passage from one generation to the next.â
âThis isnât about fashion.â
âWhat is it about then?â
âNicaise is confused,â Damen says. âHe needs stability. Rules. A schedule. Playing dress-up is fine when youâre six and a girl, but not when youâre⌠At fourteen, shouldnât his main concern be finding a girl he can ask out on a date?â
Neo picks his coffee up again. Three short sips this time. âYou used the word âconfusedâ. What do you think Nicaise is confused about?â
âWhat he wants.â
Theyâre running out of time to reach a conclusion. Damen feels wrung out, like something thatâs been squeezed far too tightly and then left alone to decompress.Â
âWhat should he want then?â Neo says.
The question hangs heavy between them, not accusatory but prodding. It feels like there are fingers scratching at Damen for answers, trying to slip under his skin and examine there too. All Damen has ever wanted is for Nicaiseâ
âTo be happy,â Damen says. âItâs like he keeps picking misery over being okay. He should just⌠make the easy choice, you know. Being a teenager is hard enough, why make things even more complicated by trying to stand out like that?â
âMaybe thatâs what makes him happy.â
Damen snorts. âRight. Because being picked on at school is awesome.â
So now we think about Damenâs friends and what he implicitly (if not consciously) knows about them. He knows they will judge Nicaise, so he keeps Nicaise away from that judgment â less to protect himself than to protect Nicaise. But now, through therapy, he has learned both that his actions were hurting Niciase and that he genuinely desires (and maybe deserves) to parent Nicaise and to parent him well.
Which circles us back to Nikandros. Previously, Damen ignored Nikandrosâ comments about Nicaise to keep the peace, and mostly kept the two apart. He also allowed his own desire to parent Nicaise to be belittled. Now that is no longer good enough. He needs to actively defend Nicaise and his feelings for Nicaise, and he does this by ending his friendship with Nikandros.
(Granted, he could have tried to articulate this more clearly and directly to Nikandros to at leave give Nikandros a chance to rethink his stanceâŚ) But breaking with Nikandros is Damen breaking with his old behavior and affirming his commitment to Nicaise.
Nikandros also serves as an unhappy mirror on Damenâs old dismissiveness around Laurentâs mental health. When Nikandros speaks, Damen is sometimes hearing Nikandrosâ judgment, but he is also hearing his old self.
âLetâs drop it then. Never talk about him again.â
âFine.â
âGood.â
âPerfect,â Damen says. And then, âHeâs not mentally unstable. Just because he has to see a therapist, it doesnât meanââ
âWe said we were going to drop it,â Nikandros says.
âYou canât just make things up and expect me not to correct you.â
âDamen, you were the one that kept going on and on about his medication and fucking shrink appointments last year. Not me, you . So can you just be honest with yourself for once?â
Damen thinks about leaving. He sees himself standing up and making his way downstairs, exiting the pub and getting into his car, then driving away. He sees himself ignoring Nikandrosâ texts tomorrow. He sees them not speaking for another month or so.
But then Damen also thinks about what Nikandros has said, about how itâs true. He should come to the gym with me, Damen had said last year, instead of just chugging down three pills a day. It canât be healthy . And, Yoga could help. You know, the stuff Jokaste and her friends do. And, I wish heâd stop shit-talking me to his shrink. Heâs so fucking crazy sometimes I â
âYouâre right,â Damen says. âWe should just drop it.â
I think this offers us one possible answer to a question that Neo poses about the difference between the two relationships which interests me:
âHow did you decide to set those boundaries with Nikandros? What made you do it?â
Damen rolls his left ankle. It sends a rush of blood to his heel, his toes. âI donât know. It just⌠happened. We started disagreeing on things.â
âWould it be fair to say you identified some things that bothered you and that was what prompted you to take the measures that you took?â
âYes?â
Neo nods and nods. Not a good sign. âHave you not felt that way about other people? Like they were crossing a line, like they were aggravating youâŚâ
âEr,â Damen says. âKastor? Weâve been doing pretty well recently. He doesnât boss me around; I do more stuff for the firm.â
âSo, what exactly is the difference between Kastor and, letâs say, your uncle?â
âMy uncle called me a faggot.â
âKastor has shown a tendency to call you things, too.â
âIâm,â Damen says. âWhy are you comparing them?â
Neoâs pen lifts from the paper. âIâm trying to understand your thought process. What makes someone worthy of a second chance or, sometimes, several chances. What doesnât.â
Why does Damen seemingly give up completely on Nikandros, while he and Kastor start to make forward progress? I have a few theories:
First, as I just said, I think Nikandros reminds Damen of his own failings, which makes him harsher on Nikandros because he is very angry at himself for hurting Nicaise. Kastor may feel Damen has many failings, but theyâre not very fair assessments and Damen hasnât taken on responsibility for being a clueless kid (nor should he).
Kastor doesnât hate Laurent or Nicaise (he actually communicates with them when Damen isnât) and actually seems to recognize Damenâs parenting role before Damen fully does.
âDo you still talk to Laurent?â
Kastor does not look surprised. If anything, he seems relieved. âAh,â he says, because Kastorâs always been one to gloat. âYes. Sometimes.â
Sometimes. Damen hasnât talked to Laurent in weeks, not since Nicaise staged their little reunion, and before that months had gone by without a single text or call or voicemail. But Kastor and Laurent talk sometimes. Thatâs good to know.
âWhy?âÂ
âWeâre not friends,â Kastor says, which only makes Damen feel more out of place. Does he think Damen doesnât want them to be friends? Does Damen not want them to be friends? âOr anything, really. We text once in a while, mostly about Galen.â
Damen frowns. âGalen?â
âNicaise asks for pictures of him. He refuses to accept my momâs friendship request on Facebook, so I send Laurent photos of Galen that he can show Nicaise. On occasion. Itâs not a thing.â
âWhy not text Nicaise directly?â
Kastor snorts. When he runs a hand through his hair, messing it up, he looks too much like their father. Damen ends up looking away. âIâve blocked his number. The little shit kept spamming me with that photoshopped picture ofââ
âThe rabid beaver,â Damen says, smiling despite it all. A bitter hurt starts to spread in his chest, suddenly unleashed. âThatâs nice of you.â
âYou sound surprised.â
I am, Damen thinks. Instead, he says, âI need to ask you something.â
Kastor pushes himself away from the door. âWeâre going then. Next weekend, or the one after that.â
âJust us two?â
âNo. Galenâs coming too.â
Damen frowns. âIsnât he a little young to go fishing?â
Kastor frowns back. âWhat? Why?â
âHowâs he supposed to hold the rod?â
âIâll buy him one for kids,â Kastor says. Then, already halfway out of Damenâs office, âDo you.â
âDo IâŚ?â
âDo you want to bring someone.â
Iris? Kyra? What is Kastor talking about? âLike who?â Damen says. âIs Jo going too?â
Kastorâs eyes roll and roll and roll. âItâs a boys' trip.â
âIâm not,â Damen gets out, awkward and confused, âseeing anyone right now.â
âFor fuckâs sake, Iâm talking about Nicaise. â
3. Also, Damen and Kastor have ways of improving their relationship that donât require head-on confrontation of their issues. Once Kastor actually tells Damen how much heâs working, for example, Damen is able to agree to take on a larger share of the work. This isnât the deep source of Kastorâs resentment, but establishing greater equality in their working relationship serves as a proxy solution.
By contrast, there is no temporary way forward for Damen and Nikandros without Damen both admitting the ways in which Nikandros had a point about how Laurent treated him AND confronting Nikandros about his judgment of Nicaise.
4. I think that throughout this fic Damen has been struggling with the idea of family. He starts the fic with a strong sense that being biological family is a bond that has to be respected in some way. They shouldnât speak ill of their father. They should honor their fatherâs relationship to Makedon. Kastor is his brother and so he can treat Damen however and Damen will just take it.
This extends to a sense that family cannot be chosen. Damen doesnât get to parent Nicaise if heâs not with Nicaiseâs guardian. Damen cannot try to fill the whole left in his life by his biological mother (and his fatherâs distance) by cultivating a relationship with someone elseâs (Nikandrosâs) mother. Â
And I feel like that may be related to Damen not trusting that people not biologically related to him wonât just leave because they have no formal obligation to him. So I think for Damen, Kastor will always be in his life. But if it comes down to Nikandros or Nicaise, heâs decided to choose Nicaise. (Though again, I hope he will rethink that and approach Nikandros with more honesty. And that he can flourish with a better understanding of chosen family and of what he deserves from the people he cares about.)
Bright side of his rigid family ideas: He gets to cut off Makedon once Kastor points out (if rudely) that he isnât actually biological family.
Kastor puts his chopsticks down. âI donât know what youâre so upset about. Makedon has always hated Vere. He was the one that threw the biggest fucking fit when he found out dad wanted to move to Delfeur, and back then it was still Delpha. Thereâs no way you didnât know that.â
âI knew, but heââ
âAnd anyway, why do you care what some old fart thinks of you?â
Damen closes his mouth, opens it. âHeâs our uncle.â
âHe was our fatherâs best friend,â Kastor says, managing to make even the simplest statement sound like a lecture. At least heâs used the right pronoun this time. âWeâre not related by blood, and even if we were Iâd still think heâs an idiot. Maybe even more, actually.â
They only have fifteen minutes left of their lunch break. Any moment now, Marianne will knock on the door and ask him or Kastor or both to sign some papers, to send an email, to make a call. Damen wishes sheâd come in right now, before he says something heâll regret.
âYou sound so,â Damen starts, and stops. Heâs so tired of feeling stupid; heâs so tired of not knowing what to say. âI didnât know thatâs how you saw things.âÂ
âWhat is that supposed to mean?â
Dadâs words sneak out of him: âFamily is family.â
âAccording to whom?â Kastor says. He doesnât sound playful anymore, or sarcastic. He hasnât moved, and yet Damen feels as though Kastor has gone away, replaced by a stranger that looks like him. âDaddy dearest? Was being nice to Uncle Mak on the will? I must have missed it.â
Damen clenches his jaw so hard his molars ache. âDonât.â
Anyway, I donât have a great wrap up to this post, but I really appreciate the complexity of HIUH Kastor and Nikandros and the depth it adds to the characterization of Damen as he navigates his complicated relationships with each of them and the meaning of family.
ayo I don't even go here (not involved in whatever fight ur fighting) but deflecting someone calling Laurentiis abusive (which he was. he was toxic.) by calling their comment abusive is a little...ironic, isn't it? Uhm. Follow your own advice? They didn't say anyrhing disparaging you...like at all. lmfao. grow up, perhaps?
You are correct, I was not disparaged, nor did I claim to be.
I wrote:
If a piece of fanfiction makes you so angry that you feel the need to send abusive anonymous comments to the author and/or ask that author to pass on your comment âcorrectingâ the opinion of a reader writing about that story, you should probably stop reading that fic.
I named two distinct actions that would indicate one is angry enough that one ought to stop reading a fic:
Sending abusive anonymous comments to the author.
Asking the author to pass on a comment correcting the opinion of a reader who posted about the story.
The first of these has happened to @thickenmyblood several times that they have shared, and many other times that they have not. The comments have not just disparaged their story, but have disparaged them as a person. I do consider that abusive, though obviously on a spectrum where the consequences are much less severe than other types of abuse.
I feel strongly that anonymous and personally disparaging comments sent on social media are a form of abuse.
It makes me angry that Maca experiences this form of abuse for a piece of artistic expression. It is all the more frustrating because I believe the criticisms of the work itself are not well founded. And, yes, I do think it is ironic that the content of the anonymous comments I consider abusive is about Laurent being abusive.
I do not know if the anonymous person who took Action #2 has also taken Action #1 in the past. Because they are anonymous. But sending a criticism of a fic to a third party through the author is passive aggressive at best. In any case, I wished to make clear that I don't think either action is warranted when the more obvious answer is to close the tab.
I am not claiming to have been the target of abuse. I did, however, feel I was being called out for my opinion on a piece of fanfiction. After all, the person specifically requested that the ask be forwarded to me because they could not make the ask here. So when Maca sent me the ask, I answered it here by detailing my interpretation of HIUH Laurent using textual references.
I do not think posting 5K words on the topic of whether Laurent is abusive and what that means in the context of HIUH and Captive Prince canon constitutes a deflection, but YMMV.
Am I feeling particularly salty because of some obnoxious holiday family drama? Yes. Yes, I am.
But I don't apologize for defending Maca. (Though Maca has never asked for me to do so.) And I answered the ask I was given. Quite thoroughly.
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The questions of Laurentâs being and behaviorâŚ
I have been informed, via @thickenmybloodâs asks (since mine were apparently not set to accept anonymous asks â which I have now changed) that my opinion about HIUH Laurentâs character is incorrect. I have been informed that heâs abusive.
My PhD isnât in English (though it is in the humanities), but my wife was an English major and she has often told me that interpretations arenât right or wrong, but they are stronger or weaker in the sense that they are supported by the text.
So, letâs goâŚ
First things first. Let me be clear about the following:
The question of whether or not Laurent is abusive in this piece of fanfiction has no bearing whatsoever on whether any person you know in real life is abusive.
Similarly, any arguments that Laurent can change or that Laurent deserves a second chance have no bearing whatsoever on whether any person you know in real life can change or deserves a second chance.
Neither HIUH nor any fic should be taken as a life advice manual. Just because there are therapists in this fic does not mean that @thickenmyblood is a mental health professional or your therapist.
I am also not a therapist, nor am I trying to give you life advice when I speak of my enjoyment of HIUH.
But if I were to give you life advice, it would be this: If a piece of fanfiction makes you so angry that you feel the need to send abusive anonymous comments to the author and/or ask that author to pass on your comment âcorrectingâ the opinion of a reader writing about that story, you should probably stop reading that fic. It is clearly not good for you. Metaphorically speaking, you are in an abusive relationship with that fic and you should end it. Write the story off and move on.
Okay, that said, the question of whether Laurent is abusive in HIUH is probably more of a series of questions:
Has HIUH Laurent engaged in abusive behaviors?
If so, do those abusive behaviors necessarily indicate that he is and will always be an abuser?
If not, what evidence do we have that HIUH Laurent can and will stop engaging in abusive behaviors?
If HIUH Laurent stops engaging in abusive behaviors, what reasons, if any, does HIUH Damen have to return to the relationship despite past abuse?
BONUS:
A. Is an HIUH Laurent who harms Damen through abusive behavior mischaracterized relative to the canon source material?
B. Is an HIUH Damen who chooses to be with Laurent despite past abuse mischaracterized relative to the canon source material?
1. Has Laurent engaged in abusive behaviors?
Yes. Although we are limited by a potentially unreliable narrator (Damen), who does not believe Laurent is abusive, we are clearly and intentionally both told and shown in the text that Laurent has engaged in abusive behavior. We are told when Neo explains as much to a skeptical Damen:
âThen you must know Iâm only trying to get a feeling on how educated you are on the subject of abuse between romantic partners.â
âBut why ? I just told you Laurent and I neverââ
âDo you know what emotional abuse looks like, Damen?â
âYes.â
âGive me a definition.â
Itâs hot in the room, all of the sudden. âItâs⌠making someone. Feel bad.â
âItâs consistent and repeated humiliation,â Neo says. âGaslighting. Manipulation. Verbal abuse can sometimes overlap with this. Have you ever experienced this while in your relationship with Laurent?â
âWe werenât abusive.â
âDid you insult each other?â
âNo,â Damen says. It was so long ago, it was a lifetime back. He canât remember. âItâsânot like that. Humiliation? We neverââ
âYouâve said that sometimes Laurent made you feel as though the things you were feeling were inadequate.â
Youâre being a fucking idiot, Laurent had said about the pink sweatshirt. âWhat if he was right?âÂ
âItâs never right to invalidate your partnerâs feelings.â
âWe werenât abusive.â
âDamen,â Neo says, the soft caress before a blow. âWhat if we think about it fromââ
âThereâs nothing to think about. Iâm telling you, it wasnât like that. How the fuck did you get to that conclusion? Because I complained about us arguing?â
Neo ruffles his notes. âContempt. Shame. Hurt. Thatâs what abusers thrive on. Thereâs quite a lot of those things in here.â
âLaurentâs not an abuser,â Damen snaps.
âMaybe not, but he grew up with one, didnât he? These are learned traits.â
Damen folds forward as though to vomit. ThatâsâHeâs made a mistake. They argued, they yelled, they said things they didnât mean, but they never hit each other or threw cutlery at each otherâs heads. They went to bed angry, and Damen slept on the couch, and there would be rolling eyes and huffs and annoyance in the following days, but thatâs notâLaurent is notâ
Youâre sweet, Damen had said, hand to Laurentâs cheek. A sweetheart. He remembers meaning it, remembers Laurent not liking it. He also remembers Laurentâs sweetness, scarcer in the end and cloying in the beginning. Breakfast in bed, letting Damen pick what show to watch, giving up half his trail mix bag because he knew Damen liked the dried fruit pieces most. Youâll do great, you always do great. A protein shake prepped and ready to go, peace and quiet the nights before important court days. But also bigger things, biggest things. There wasâand sharing a bed, and curling up under Damen to read, and letting Damen carry Nicaise up the stairs, and holding his hand under the table as firm functions, and kissing just to kiss, just because, justâ
Heâs explained Laurent wrong.
And we are shown in the moments when Damen and Laurent talk and Damen expects a belittling response from Laurent:
âThere are,â Laurent starts, stops. Starts again, âI didnât.â He has both elbows on the table, which he used to despise. Tables are for cutlery and food, not limbs. Something about the way he rubs at the skin under his eyes makes Damenâs stomach cower as if expecting a blow. âAgnes recommended it months before youâcame back. It wasnât my idea.â
âI met him?â
For once, Laurent doesnât mock him for his question. âIt was at that school play I couldnât go to. The one Nicaise got that huge part in.â
âI want to know when the twenty-four hours are up,â Damen says, loudly, too loudly, âso we can go to the police station and report him missing. For fuckâs sake, Laurent, will you stop ? He could be seriously hurt, and youâre sitting here, berating me about the way I phrased a question. Do you even give a shit about him? Do you evenââ
He cuts himself off when he sees Laurentâs expression. Like he did last time with Nicaise, Damen braces himself for whatâs to come, goes over the list of things Laurent can hurl at him, tries to minimize the inevitable damage. The comment will be about Nikandros, about his soft childhood in Ios, about the time he tried to discipline Nicaise by himself and ended up covered in vomit.
Â
Nothing happens.
Thereâs only Laurent, turning his face to the side so Damen canât stare at it any longer. In the silence of the car, Laurentâs breathing shakes.
âIs his name really Dog?â Laurent says, sitting down next to Damen. Between them, the two cups of coffee and the small pile of croissants both steam. âI didnât believe Nicaise when he told me.â
âI,â Damen starts, lie ready on his tongue, and stops. Itâs very meta. âIâm not good with names.â
Laurent picks up his coffee instead of agreeing with Damen. Instead of mocking. The space between their bodies is comfortable enoughâtheyâre not touching, not even their knees or thighs. Theyâre not looking at each other either, not with the entire park stretching green and busy in front of them.
2. If so, do those abusive behaviors necessarily indicate that he is and will always be an abuser?
I take this to be one of the major points of contention on the part of the angry readers. As you can probably guess, I donât think the text suggests that Laurent in inherently abusive. Besides the stuff coming in my answer to question 3, we have several reasons to believe that Laurentâs abusive behavior is the product of particular circumstances rather than a generalized personality dysfunction.
We know, and Neo just reminded us above, that abusive behaviors are learned behaviors. We know Laurent was abused in multiple ways before he was able to leave his uncleâs house. We know that he is still very young and that it has not been that long since his uncleâs trial. We know he has not been comfortable talking to Damen about his abuse, which gives us reason to believe he still experiences a great deal of shame. That shame is hinted at here:
âHe respects you,â Laurent says before Damen has made up his mind about the yelling. âHe looks at you and sees a standard to meet. Normalcy. Itâs hard to disappoint people you respect. Especially people like you.â
âLike me.â
âYou do things your way. Everyone else does them wrong.â
âThatâs,â Damen starts. The absolute inaccuracy of the phrase leaves him hanging. âWhat the fuck?â
Laurent ignores him. âHe doesnât respect me, and he also knows I have no room to judge. Itâs different. Weâreâitâs just different.â
We also know that Laurent is specifically and intentionally not abusive toward Nicaise. We have seen that he has been absorbing a ton of anger, vilification, derision, denigration from Nicaise almost entirely without complaint and without lashing out at Nicaise in return. In fact, after the breaking of the paperweight, when Laurent feels that he might not be able to avoid reacting in a way he will regret, he calls Damen to safely remove Nicaise from the situation. Having taken the lock off Nicaiseâs door for reasons many parents would no doubt consider justified, he realizes it was a mistake:
Damen doesnât look down at the twisted little bolts on the floor. âActually, you should watch this part in case you ever want to dismantle it again.â
âI wonât.â
Damen rubs his sleeve over a weird spot on the knob. âYouâre betting a lot on Nicaiseâs hypothetical good behavior.â
âIt was dumb, taking the lock away as punishment. IâŚâ Laurentâs thumb glides over the edge of the glass. It traces a full circle before stopping and going white, digging in. His jaw twitches like heâs munching on something. âPrivacy shouldnât be a reward.â
âWasnât this about safety? He locked himself in, wouldnât come out or reply when you calledâŚâ
Laurentâs reply is slow to come. After a while, Damen stops expecting it to come at all. He goes back to testing the lockâtwice, waiting for that click soundâopens the door, closes it, and rattles the knob a bit. Just to be sure.
âMy uncle made it about safety too,â Laurent says. âLocks on doors were for adults. Not children.â The lonely ice cube in his glass floats around aimlessly, not quite touching its confines. âThe first to go were the bedroom locks. What if thereâs a fire and you canât get out? What if someone breaks in through the window andâwell.â Laurent smiles, small and ugly. âThat kind of thing. You know.â
He ensures that Nicaise sees a therapist, meets with that therapist regularly, and follows professional advice about putting Nicaise on medication.
Laurent also maintains a strong friendship with Ancel, whose judgment the text has taught us to trust, through Damenâs evolving relationship with him. Laurent is capable of non-abusive, non-superficial relationships.
3. If not, what evidence do we have that HIUH Laurent can and will stop engaging in abusive behaviors?
From the moment we see Laurent interact with Damen in the present of this story, he is trying to treat Damen better. Not because he thinks he can get back together with Damen, but because he realizes he needs to make a relationship with Damen possible for Nicaise. We have already seen above that most of the time when Damen expects Laurentâs ridicule in this story, he does not actually receive it. In very stressful conversations, when Laurent does lash out, he now tends to pull back or even to acknowledge and apologize:
Coffee. Damen takes two long sips, trying to rinse the bad taste out of his mouth. Theyâve had arguments in public before, probably louder than this one. For some reason, the thought isnât as comforting as Damen would have once found it. They broke up to be better than they were together, didnât they? They should be better. Except this doesnât feel better. Or different.
Laurent says, âThat was out of line.â
Now, cooled off, Damen feels clammy. Wobbly. He knows Laurent is right, and yet the thought of sitting through a reprimand makes him want to melt away. âIt was.â
âIâapologize.â
Damen looks up from his coffee to Laurentâs profile. Heâs facing the wrong way, Damen thinks stupidly, because the window is to their left. âYou apologize.â Half a question.
âGo ahead,â Laurent says. âRub it in.â
Damen doesnât want to. Nausea is curling around him, closing in. âI was out of line too, so.â
And we know now that Laurent has thought through some of his past behaviors toward Damen:
âI was angry at you,â Laurent says, âall the time. Sometimes it was justified, but when it wasnât I justâI found ways to justify it. That wasnât fair. Of me.â
Damenâs palm is numb around the glass. âWhy were you angry?â
âNicaise.â
âJustified,â Damen says. âAnd the rest of it?â
Laurent is facing him again. âPaschal says I have a tendency to expect the worst from everyone. Especially you. Youâd make comments, and Iâd think you were being cruel instead ofâŚâ
âInstead of what? Ignorant?â
Laurent doesnât reply.
âThat makes no sense,â Damen says. âWe never argued about me being fucking sadistic. We argued about you acting like some things were obvious and I was simply too much of an idiot to get them.â
âI never thought you were an idiot.â
âYou said it often enough.â
âIâmâsorry,â Laurent says. âIt doesnât change anything, butâeven if you had been the biggest idiot in the world, you didnât deserveâŚâ A blinking spree follows. âIâm sorry.â
We know that Laurent is still in therapy, and we know that he has been talking about his relationship with Damen there because Paschal has suggested couples counseling for them. And Laurent has invited Damen to do that couples counseling, showing that he wants them to build a better foundation for their relationship going forward.
4. If HIUH Laurent stops engaging in abusive behaviors, what reasons, if any, does HIUH Damen have to return to the relationship despite past abuse?
Damen is deeply in love with Laurent. At the beginning of the story, he is in denial about this fact, but the uncontrollable flow of his thoughts still shows us how much he feels the loss of their relationship. Once he and Laurent are speaking again, seeing improvements in their communication, and experiencing moments of comfort and fun in their interactions â and once Laurent has broken up with Maxime â Damen admits to himself that he wants to be back together. Neo, as usual, prompts the self-recognition:
âIâm asking you to think about what life might look like in two years,â Neo says, âfor you and Laurent. Time does not only pass for you, Damen.â A smile, crinkling the corners of Neoâs eyes. âThatâd be ideal, wouldnât it?âÂ
Two years. Damen sits with the question for a while, looking at it, prodding it. In two years, Nicaise will have gone away to college. Maybe Laurent will move, relocate, start over somewhere closer to Vask. Heâll post about his new life on Instagram, or details of it will make it to Damen as second-hand gossip. They could still be friends, over text or the phone or fucking letters, Damen thinks, yet thereâs something bitter in the back of his throat, filling up his mouth like vomit. Maybe Laurent will date again. Probably. Most likely. And Damenâ
When he looks up from the armrest, Neo is looking straight back.Â
Damen canât say it. Earlier today, as he typed his last email of the day at the office, he kept drafting a plan for todayâs session. Heâd explain his argument with Laurent, then the party at Ancelâs, then the way he keeps looking at Laurent in all the wrong lights, in all the wrong ways, and still finds himself wanting to kiss him. Neo would make a disapproving face, maybe, but it would be easy to brush off; anyone that doesnât know Laurent would find it hard to understand how easy it is to want to kiss him. Except that isnât all Damen wants.
What Damen wants isnât a settling of the score, a cleaning of the slate. He doesnât want to do it once for old timesâ sake, or twice out of gluttony. He doesnât want to make any long-distance phone calls, write any letters, see any pictures on Instagram of Laurent and someone that isnât him. He doesnât want things to stay like this, in this careful antiseptic stage. He doesnât want them to be friends.
âItâs not what I want,â Damen says, at last.
Neo leans back into his chair. He rolls his wrist once.
âYou think itâs what I should want, right? Letting go and all.â
âI wouldnât say that,â Neo says. âShould and shouldnât are very loaded words. It also doesnât matter what I think you should or shouldnât do, in general. What is it that you want, since weâve already established what it is that you donât?â
Donât make me say it out loud. âI want,â Damen starts, and stops. The words look so stupid, jumbled inside his head. I want him back, like Laurent is a toy someone took away and wonât return. Like Damen is a child, begging. Donât make me say it. Â
Seconds trickle by, piling into a minute. Then two.
âDo you want to be in a relationship with Laurent again?â
âI thought I already was,â Damen says. âA friendship is a kind of relationship. You said that.â
Neo closes his eyes, keeps them like that for a while. âI did, yes. Let me rephrase thatâdo you want to be in a romantic relationship with Laurent? Again?â
There is no loophole this time, no two-meaning word Damen can latch onto. The truth sits heavy in him, not on his chest but somewhere deeper, inside a little crevice between some (probably important) organs. Saying no would be lying, saying yes would be diminishing.Â
âI want things to be good,â Damen says. âThatâs all.â
And in chapter 19, Damen is brutally honest with himself about how, even after everything, he still wants Laurent:
âYou meet new people,â Neo says. âYou go on dates, make new friends, find new interests. Despite what you might think right now, Laurent isnât your only option. Dare I say, Laurent might not even be your best option.â
The room is dark, darker than it was when the phone call started, but Damenâs eyes hurt like heâs been staring at a ball of light for too long. Everything hurts in a strange, modest way. A throb here, faint. An ache there, heatless.Â
âI donât want other options,â Damen says.
âWell.â
âHow fucked up is that?â
âPretty fucked up,â Neo says. It makes Damen stop blinking.
âLuckily, youâre already doing therapy. Itâs only bound to get less complicated from here on. Or more, depending on how you look at it.â
âI donât even wanna look at it, to be honest.â
âThen donât. Take time off, let things cool down, think about whatâs been said⌠No one is asking you to choose right this second.â
Itâs not that anyone is asking. Itâs that it feels like heâs already made his choice.Â
âYou didnât tell me,â Damen says before he can think not to.
âTell you what?â
âHow bad it was.â
Laurentâs thumb traces the t in team. Itâs a bit crooked, even from Damenâs perspective. âIt was pretty bad,â he says, slowly, âbefore you came back. Things were better once he started seeing you again.â
âYou call that better?â
âYes,â Laurent says.Â
I would have come back, Damen thinks, if youâd told me. Except itâs not true; he would have come back for much less. Heâs here now, sitting across from Laurent in this mediocre coffee shop, talking things out, making an effort, thinking of reaching out to finally, finally, hold Laurentâs hand.Â
Itâs strange, looking at Laurent and knowing heâs the only other person on earth that feels the same way he does. Where else would Damen go? Who else would he talk to? No one will ever get it, not the way Laurent does. And Laurent knows it. He must, or else he would not be sitting here either. There is only this, Damen thinks. At least for him, there will only ever be this.
So there is that. Damen is hopelessly devoted to Laurent. But that doesnât make getting back together with him a good decision. Love would not be a good reason to return to an abusive relationship.
Another NOT good reason would be Damen believing the fact that he made mistakes cancels out Laurentâs harmful behavior. The text makes that explicitly clear through Neo:
Neoâs pen hops; a period appears at the end of a sentence. âApologies can be hard to navigate. Itâs sort of like⌠Youâve wronged me, and you know that youâve wronged me, and now youâre apologizing for it while expecting me to forgive you. Itâs quite a lot to put on a person.â
âThere are degrees to wrong,â Damen says. His chair feels smaller, like itâs locking him in instead of holding him up. The armrests keep getting in the way of his elbows. âAnd itâs not like I didnât have stuff I had to apologize for too. I donât get why youâre trying to make this seem like a bad thing.â
âIâm not.â
âThen whyââ
âDo you think you deserved an apology from Laurent?â
Damen leans back and back and back, until his shoulder blades find something solid. Did he deserveâŚ? Heâd wanted one, once. In Nikandrosâs guest room, with only beige and white and terracotta everything around him, heâd had staring matches with his own phone. Heâd thought Laurent might call, at the very beginning. Apologizing. Begging. But Laurent never did.
âYeah,â Damen says.Â
Neoâs head begins to tilt. âYou donât sound too sure about that.â
âI am sure.â
âAll right,â Neo says. âWhy do you deserve an apology?â
âI told you already. He treated me like I was an idiot.â
âHow?â
âHowâwhat?â
âHow exactly did he treat you like you were an idiot? What were his actions towards you?â
âI,â Damen starts, but something in Neoâs face makes him pause. âHeâd say things when we argued.â
âSuch as?â
âThat I was an asshole.â
Neo nods. âAnd how did you feel when you heard him say that? Did you feel like it was fair?â
âI felt like he was an asshole,â Damen says. âSometimes.â
âWhereas now you feel like he was right?â
He was right about Nicaise. And maybe about Ancel, too. âI donât know what you want me to say.â
âI donât want you to say anything,â Neo says. âIâm just trying to get you to think about things from a different perspective. Laurent apologized, which is an importantânot to say crucialâstep in rebuilding any kind of relationship. But it seems to me that youâre holding onto this newly found belief that because you acted a certain way, because you made mistakes, you somehow deserved the way he treated you throughout the last stages of your relationship.â
âThatâs not what I think,â Damen says.Â
âAll right. Then you think you deserved the apology because the way he treated you was wrong.â
âYes. ButâŚâ
âButâŚ?â
Damenâs face feels hot, the heat lodged right over his molars. âDoesnât it kind of cancel out? Like, we both fucked up.â
âThose are two different issues,â Neo says. âSo no, they donât cancel out. What he did to you and what you did to him are obviously connected, but someone doing something wrong or bad is not an excuse to do the wrong or bad thing back to them.â Neo gives his pen a tap. âOr it does, I suppose. It depends on your belief system. But you donât strike me as an âeye for an eyeâ fan.â
I donât want any eyes, Damen thinks.Â
I interpret the failed second try (or second strike) of Damen and Laurentâs relationship to have been somewhat based on the âcancel outâ reasoning from above. The âcancel outâ and move past approach  did not work because they failed to address the many insecurities, communication failures, and problematic patterns that plagued the first time around. A discussion with Neo (again) makes this clear. Damen hasnât yet learned to listen to what Laurent is saying without letting his insecurities and anger get in the way:
But Damen isnât in Laurentâs position. Youâll never get it, Laurent had said about Nicaise. Maybe itâs true. âI get why he did it. Iâve been thinking, and itâs notâI get it. Nicaise being embarrassed, wanting Laurent in the room because he was the least angry ofââ
âI donât think thatâs why,â Neo says. âOr at least, thatâs not what youâve just told me Laurent said about the whole thing.â
âWhat?â
âLaurent talked extensively about roles. Did you notice that?â
âNo.â
âHe presents himself as the scapegoat for Nicaiseâs anger, while youâre the one Nicaise admires and wants to impress.â Tap, tap, tap. Damen imagines Neoâs fingers flying across the keyboard. âIt seems to me Nicaise wasnât concerned about the different intensity levels of yourâas in, yours and Laurentâsâanger. He knew you were both angry.â
âLaurent was better at handling it.â
âWas he?â
âI couldnât stop thinking about the guy,â Damen says. Guys, his brain supplies, helpful as ever. âI still canât. Even now, I know itâs notâthatâs not important. I was yelling at Nicaise. I wasnât listening.â
âAnd thatâs why Nicaise didnât want you to go with him to the clinic?â
Damen closes his eyes. He needs to repaint his ceiling, do something about the lack of texture there.Â
âLaurent said something about abandonment,â Neo tries. A nudge. âYouâve mentioned Nicaise doesnât do well with change, that heâs got a tendency to latch onto routines and people. Do you think it might be possible that he was trying to preserve the relationship he has with you?â
âBy keeping me out of a medical examination room.â
âYes.â
âThatâs what Laurent said.â
âWell,â Neo says. âIt sounds plausible.â
Damen wanted magically for them to be over their past:
âRight,â Damen says. âYou donât do should and shouldnât. I forgot.â
âAre you upset?â
Are you angry with me? âI donât know,â Damen says. âWe were supposed to be past this, and now itâs out there and I canâtâwe canâtââ
âHow were you supposed to be past this, if this had never been discussed before today?â
âYou said itâs impossible to discuss everything.â
So, I donât think itâs a strong interpretation of the text to say that @thickenmyblood is trying to present Damen in an unfairly negative light in order to excuse Laurentâs much worse behavior and thereby make it okay for them to get back together. Cancelling out isnât what the HEA of the story is set up to be about.
That said â and given the fact that Damen is still in love with Laurent â what GOOD reasons might Damen have to try the relationship again?
For one, he is beginning to understand better what the fights with Laurent about Nicaise were about. Moreover, they have now explicitly acknowledged that they are co-parenting Nicaise and Laurent has expressed a clear commitment to them parenting Nicaise as a team.
For another, Damen has a much improved understanding of the role of therapy and the complexities of mental health. He has a long ways to go on this front, but I donât think weâll see him dismissing or belittling Laurentâs mental health needs. Moreover, Damen has ways of addressing his own mental health needs and talking things through with a person who doesnât share his triggers and emotional investments around Laurent.
For a third, he has made a commitment to working through their issues in therapy and has concluded that he trusts Laurent to try just as hard as he will to repair and strengthen their relationship.
Crucially, Damen has also learned to stand up for himself when he feels Laurent is implying that he is incapable of understanding things. This means he can point it out and Laurent can recognize when he is retreating into a defensive, harmful pattern. This also allows Damen to indicate that something isnât obvious to him and to ask Laurent to explain it kindly and clearly. I think that is the only way they can reconcile their very different life histories and relationships to social normativity.
ONCE AGAIN, believing this about HIUH Damen relative to HIUH Laurent does not mean that I believe this is something all (or even very many) real life people who were previously in unhealthy relationships should aim for or could achieve. Â
Which brings us to our bonus questions:
A. Is an HIUH Laurent who harms Damen through abusive behavior mischaracterized relative to the canon source material?
No, in fact, this is not a mischaracterization. Laurent abused Damen in canon. He took him as a slave. He sought Damenâs public humiliation. He had Damen whipped to an extent that would have killed most other people. He placed Damen in a situation that (for almost any other person) would have resulted in a violent public rape. He also forced Damen to engage in public and non-consensual oral sex. Later, when he understood Damen more emotionally and was feeling insecure or threatened, he lied about his feelings and motivations out of shame and self-hatred and with the aim of hurting Damen enough to drive him away.
B. Is an HIUH Damen who chooses to be with Laurent despite past abuse mischaracterized relative to the canon source material?
Damen fell in love with Laurent after all that abuse because he came to understand its source and because he saw other sides of Laurent that were caring and honorable and expressed a commitment to achieving justice, even if not by fully honest means. He came to understand Laurent as a survivor, even before he became aware of what exactly Laurent had survived. He stuck with Laurent through all of Laurentâs attempts to push him away and fought for what should have been an impossible relationship. And throughout this process, he learned about his own naivete and to question key elements of his upbringing, like the quest for war glory and the belief that âperfect treatmentâ justified slavery.
Captive Prince is a seductive and enthralling trilogy. And we willingly suspend any disbelief about whether Laurentâs trauma can truly be overcome simply by Damenâs noble nature and magical healing cock.
Why not do the same for HIUH? (Or, you know, just stop reading it.)
Although I do think Maca may owe us some healing cock. Just sayinâ.
To combat the sense of dread coiling in my body at the impending holiday arrival of my father and stepmother, I offer you this whimsical moment.
Whether it comes in six weeks or six months, I am very much looking forward to Chapter 20 (while at the same time in complete denial about the fact that @thickenmyblood posting Chapter 20 will mean no more HIUH updates).
I mean what could be better after all this therapy and miscommunication than an actual couples counseling scene?
I mean, unless it was a MUSICAL couples counseling sceneâŚ
(If you like HIUH but hate Taylor Swift, donât keep reading.)
So hereâs how I picture it:
[PASCHAL is in a chair. DAMEN and LAURENT are sitting next to each other on a couch, but stiff and not touching.]
PASCHAL [leaning forward]: You both want to try again.
[DAMEN and LAURENT nod.]
PASCHAL: So, letâs talk about why things didnât work out the first time.
[DAMEN and LAURENT stare straight ahead.]
PASCHAL: Damen, why donât you start? Address Laurent.
[DAMEN turns to look at Laurent as the opening bars of âAll You Had to Do Was Stayâ by Taylor Swift play. Suddenly, singingâŚ]
DAMEN: People like you always want back the love they gave away.
LAURENT [turning to face DAMEN]: And people like me wanna believe you when you say you've changed.
DAMEN: The more I think about it now, the less I know.
BOTH: All I know is that you drove us off the road.
LAURENT [standing up and looking back at Damen on the couch]: Hey, all you had to do was stay. Had me in the palm of your handâŚ
DAMEN [standing too]: Then why'd you have to go and lock me out when I let you in?
LAURENT: Hey, now you say you want it back. Now that it's just too late. Well, it could've been easy. All you had to do was stay.
BOTH [each looking at PASCHAL as if pleading their case]: All you had to do was stay.
All you had to do was stay.
All you had to do was stay.
All you had to do was stay.
DAMEN [looking at LAURENT again]: Here you are now, calling me up, but I don't know what to say.
LAURENT [looking back at DAMEN]: I've been picking up the pieces of the mess you made.
DAMEN: People like you always want back the love they pushed aside.
LAURENT: But people like me are gone forever when you say goodbye.
BOTH: Hey, all you had to do was stay. Had me in the palm of your hand.
DAMEN: Then why'd you have to go and lock me out when I let you in?
LAURENT: Hey, now you say you want it back. Now that it's just too late.
DAMEN: Well, it could've been easy. All you had to do was stay.
BOTH [looking at PASCHAL again]: All you had to do was stay.
All you had to do was stay.
All you had to do was stay.
DAMEN [looking at LAURENT]: Let me remind you, this was what you wanted. You ended it.
BOTH: You were all I wanted. But not like this.
LAURENT [sinking down to the couch]: Not like this.
Thanks for the love on the earlier post! Clearly, like me, you canât get enough of analyzing HIUH. Allow me to test that theoryâŚ
HIUH is both an easy and a hard read. On the one hand, the writing style makes is go down smooth. On the other hand, the plight of the characters burns (in all the best ways). And sometimes you just want to shake some sense into them!
I am obsessed with HIUH to a borderline unhealthy degree. I love the style and subtly of the writing (but thatâs a whole topic for a different post). I love how frustrating and heartbreaking and hilarious (Iâm looking at you, Ancel) it can be. Iâm obsessed with how much it makes me feel.
Typically, when a chapter is posted, I read it once, then go back and read the previous chapter and the new chapter again, then reread my favorite little sections again and again. Sometimes, I start at the beginning of the story and read all the way through. Itâs never not worth my time.
So, anyway, perhaps this obsession explains how very defensive I feel when I read people commenting on how unlikeable Laurent (or Damen) is, or how they canât imagine feeling good about them getting back together. I mean, itâs fair for them to feel however they feel as readers, but alsoâŚ
Of course they have to get back together, because they are MEANT TO BE!
Which brings me to the question of canon parallels.
Because we, as a fandom, know that they are MEANT TO BE because of Pacatâs trilogy, and more specifically, because they had SO MUCH to overcome. Only a couple that is MEANT TO BE still comes to be despite the fact that one killed the otherâs brother and the other took the one as a slave had him nearly whipped to death. I mean, thatâs a lot to get past.
And herein lies the genius of HIUH. Because Pacat was able to set up this drama by setting her story in a pseudo-historical world of kingdoms and old-fashioned, army-clashing warfare. It was neither farfetched nor unreasonable that Damen killed Auguste. And it was believable (to everyone but Damen) that Damenâs brother tried to have him killed in a coup. And it was fair enough that Laurent swore vengeance, which, combined with the trauma he had experienced, ultimately allows us to forgive his cruelty. Also, Damen may not have whipped slaves, but he owned them, so he ultimately lacks moral purity (despite a common desire to grant it to him in fanfic, which I totally understand, because he has honor! Itâs hot!). And they all live in a world before therapy, so theyâre just gonna have to kind of suck up their trauma and go on ruling.
But how do you plausibly transfer this meant-to-be-despite-all-odds to a modern-day setting?
You can make them both modern royalty (which is always fun), but you canât make Damen own people or have Laurent be casually sadistic and still have us root for them. Laurentâs trauma can be the same (unfortunately, because shitty adults still get away with abuse), but he canât take it out on Damen in the same way. And Damen canât be a catalyst for the trauma to the same degree either, because itâs hard in modern setting to imagine him having justifiably killed August and then Laurent being able to move on.
So how can two people hurt each other so much and still come together in modern times? By being exes, it turns out! Who knew?
@thickenmyblood knew!
And from that amazing canon adaptation of the overall conceit, @thickenmyblood goes on to create so many other canon parallels. Iâll number them (in order to assure you this post isnât actually endless), but Iâm sure itâs not an exhaustive list:
1. Damenâs quest begins when his privileged world, which he has never examined very closely, gets turned upside down. His unquestioned acceptance of slavery becomes an unquestioned acceptance of toxic masculinity, which also parallels with Damenâs unquestioned pursuit of war glory (the Original Toxic Masculinityâ˘). His complete inability to recognize what every single reader can see â that Laurent was abused by his uncle â becomes an unwillingness to hear about Laurentâs traumatic experiences or accept their mental health consequences. His quest to regain his throne becomes a quest to regain his sense of self, which leads him to therapy, which leads to a realignment of his priorities that ultimately puts a connection to Laurent high on his list (as in the books).
2. Which makes sense, I think, of why Damen still cares so much for Laurent in HIUH despite his recognition of Laurentâs behavior. As in the books, he, like a few of the people closest to Laurent, sees beneath the judgmental exterior to Laurentâs resilience, deep care for people like Nicaise, and well-hidden playfulness. Lest we forget, the running over the rooftops was a key moment for Lamen â the banter and wordplay they can still find in HIUH post-breakup gestures to that playful connection/reconnection.
3. Meanwhile, Laurent remains a survivor in both worlds, and alternates between dedicating almost everything he has to simply persisting despite his uncle and trying to carve about a more purposeful and livable existence, which he at the same time does not fully believe he deserves. He is willing to protect and fight for Nicaise in ways he isnât always able to fight for himself.
4. Nicaise, as in canon, sometimes desperately appreciates that, sometimes need to push, push, push until Laurent gives up on him the way he canât stop fearing Laurent will.
5. Meanwhile, just as in canon, the only means Laurent has found to protect himself is by keeping his deepest self hidden and feigning indifference and superiority when he feels vulnerable or hurt. Did Laurent break up with Damen to protect Nicaise? Yes, absolutely. But, as I argued in the previous post, Laurent also breaks up with Damen because he believes deep down that, in the long term, Damen could not love the real Laurent because the real Laurent is fundamentally unlovable.
6. And he clearly told himself Damen would be better off without him, and without Nicaise, too. Like in canon, heâs willing to sacrifice his own chance at happiness to let Damen have his. He probably figured he was letting Damen go back to his charmed and trauma-free life. Which was less charmed and trauma-free than Damen thought it was, as it turns out (thank you, Neo). Which just takes us right back to Damenâs canon obliviousness and rose-tinted glasses.
7. Consider also that Laurent comes to give Damen his first and second chances because he is so desperate for Damenâs help that he has to push aside his anger, pride, and fear and let Damen in just a little (calling him for that first date, showing up at his house looking for Nicaise + asking him to take Nicaise after the paperweight). This mirrors his decision to take Damen with him to the border. But, just as in canon, whenever he lets Damen in just a little, Damen surprises him and worms his way back into Laurentâs closely-guarded heart.
8. Similarly for Damen in canon and here, Laurent is easy to hate when heâs being icy, superior, and hurtful, but impossible for Damen to hate when he pays close enough attention to see Laurentâs vulnerability. A lot of this comes through in HIUH in Damenâs careful notice of Laurentâs body language. When not clouded by his own insecurities, Damen can still read Laurent like a book.
9. Also worth noting is the way @thickenmyblood translates the differences in how Damen and Laurent think. As in canon, Damen is very literal and practical, thinking in straight lines. He is well suited to the law. Laurentâs thinking is more complicated, theoretical, and more attuned reasoning born of trauma. He is well suited to academia. But since there is no court intrigue in this modern setting, these differences are displayed not only in their communication differences, but through the contemporary complexities of sexual orientation and gender expression. Laurent (and his friend group) navigate these things effortlessly, while Damen (and his friend group) find it needlessly confusing and easy to mock. But like in canon Damen really should have understood court betrayals for his own sake, so too should this Damen understand how his thinking and friend group have prevented him from being fair to those he loves and fair to himself.
10. And if we want to get really metaphorical, we can say that Kastor "kills" their father in this by forcing Damen to realize he wasn't as good a father as Damen cast him in his memory. Although in this case, the metaphorical killing of the father opens the possibility for a more genuine relationship between the brothers, instead of destroying it...
And letâs stop it there, yeah? (Off to read the user manual for my new dishwasher.)
Having created this Tumblr for no other purpose than send HIUH (Hand in Unlovable Hand) asks to @thickenmyblood, I figured why not dedicate winter break to fic analysis posts?
So let's start with the title!
How could you possibly be here if you're worried about spoilers, but...
Hand in Unlovable Hand.
At first I was oriented toward the Mountain Goats song (âNo Childrenâ), you know how it goes :
I am drowning
there is no sign of land
you are coming down with me
hand in unlovable hand
And throughout the fic's posting, lots of readers have been alternately finding Damen and then Laurent very hard to like (which was an awesome reading experience in and of itself because fanfic doesnât always tend toward deeply complex characters). So the sort-of-toxic relationship view felt plausible (except I was always going for âappears-toxic-but-is-actually-true-love-and-totally-fixableâ because this is make-believe anyway and itâs based on CP, so).
But now Iâm thinking, what if the âunlovableâ is actually about people who think they are unlovable? And what if thatâs not just both Damen and Laurent, but also Nicaise?
So, like, what if what this little family actually has in common â even if Damen appears to have a very different history and Laurent has said they are too different â is their individual fears that no one will ever really love them?
Like Nicaise obviously doesnât think Damen can actually love the real him and tries to be on his best behavior (even while pushing Damenâs boundaries). And Nicaise seems like heâs doing his level best to drive Laurent away, so that when Laurent eventually abandons him â as he fears - he can pretend thatâs what he wanted anyway.Â
And Damen has panic attacks about Maxime not because he gives a shit about Maxime but because heâs let Maxime represent the idea that Laurent never really loved Damen, but was just using Damen and moved on quickly and painlessly. And Damen had no mother and had a distant father and a resentful half-brother and heâs only just beginning to believe that chosen family can be real family.
And Laurent completely doesnât get that Damen has this insecurity because he sees Damenâs life as so normal and charmed.
And, finally, even though our unreliable narrator thinks Laurent has always been in control of everything, including their relationship and entrance into the family formed by Laurent and Nicaise, Laurentâs insecurities (on nearly full display in Chapter 19) have been sprinkled throughout this fic like breadcrumbs.
In the original breakup:
âWeâre different. We want different things.â
Damen said nothing. The coffee was ashy in his mouth. Dry.
âIâve got Nicaise,â Laurent said, âand I canâtâthis is not working. It was never going to work.â
In the overheard conversation with Ancel:
Ancelâs back is all Damen can see. His hair shakes from roots to ends when he tilts his head in Laurentâs direction. âI thought,â he says, slowly, âthat you wanted different.â
âI did.â
âUgh, Laurent, youâre giving me a headache. What even is the proââ
âIâm not,â Laurent says, louder than before. The shock of sound works like a slap, and Damen wants to move back into the hallway, to scurry to the other bathroom, to leave them alone, but his legs simply wonât take him there. â Iâm not. Iâm stillâyou heard what Nicaiseââ
In Laurent's interpretation of the breakup:
âYou wanted out,â Laurent says, âso I gave you out.â
But Damen finds Laurent so loveable â and he didnât ever really talk to Laurent about the effects his abuse â that he canât understand how unloveable Laurent feels.
So I feel like they three are all so much alike (and so lost in insecurity) that now theyâre all talking past each other.
But I also feel like when they come back together in the right way, the family will be so good for each other, damn it!
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[Modern AU in which Damen assumes Augusteâs little brother is completely indifferent to him, until Laurent slowly takes control of Damenâs sex life and itâs all Damen never knew he needed.]
Nikandros looks up from his studying when Damen gets back to the apartment. âWasnât expecting to see you again tonight.â
Damen shrugs and sits down in front of the TV. He pulls up the Netflix menu and flips through options without settling on anything.
Nik comes over and sits next to him. âAre you alright, man?â
âIâm fine. What?â Even to his own ears, Damen sounds weird. âSometimes I go out and donât hook up.â
âI mean, âsometimesâ is a bit of an overstatementâŚâ
âIâm not trying to. You just seem off, is all.â Nik turns and takes a closer look at Damenâs face. He frowns. âAre you seeing somebody?â
âNot really. I mean, no.â
âNot really,â Nik repeats. âWho are you ânot reallyâ seeing?â
Damen waves his hand. âNo one. Itâs just, like, a thing.â
âA thing?â
âYou wouldnât understand.â
âNot without more specific nouns, no.â
Damen sighs. âItâs like⌠I mean⌠have you ever had someone order you around? LikeâŚsexually?â
âLike dominating you in bed?â
âI mean, beds havenât really been involvedâŚyet.â
Nikâs face is doing something complicated. âHave you joined the BDSM scene? Like do you have a Dom or something? Not that Iâm judgingâŚâ
âNo! I mean, I donât think so. I mean⌠thereâs not a scene, really.â
âDamen,â Nik asks, suddenly serious, âhave you consented to this?â
âYes, of course!â Damen says. âWell, not in so many words, but itâs not like heâs holding a gun to my head.â
âHe?â
âThey,â Damen says quickly.
âYou know thatâs not the definition of consent, right?â
âObviously.â
âOkay,â Nik begins, in a tone that brooks no argument, âI amâunfortunatelyâgoing to need more details.â
Damen can see how, from Nikâs perspective, this is a reasonable request. Also, Damen may be secretly dying to share something of all this.
âOkay, so remember last weekend at the bar when I took that guy into theââ
âYes,â Nik interrupts. âI remember.â
âOkay, well, they, um, told me to do that.â
âThey told you?â
âIt was a text.â
âThey texted you toâŚâ Nik declines to finish the sentence. He frowns, thinking. âWait a minute. Were they there? At the bar?â
âNo.â Damen shakes his head for good measure.
âDude. You canât lie for shit. Who was it?â
âIâm really not going to tell you that,â Damen says.
It takes Nik less than thirty seconds to work it out on his own.
âOh my god. Itâs Augusteâs brother, isnât it? Whatâs his nameâŚâ
âLaurent.â
Nik shakes his head. âI knew he was going to be trouble the moment I saw his face.â
âWhat?â
âHeâs, like, the Platonic form of your type.â
âHeâs Augusteâs little brother!â Damen protests.
âWhoâs apparently in charge of your sex life!â Nik counters.
Fair point, but... âI havenât even touched him.â
âYou realize that only makes it weirder, right?â
He does⌠âBut itâs so, so good, Nik.â
Nik covers his face with his hands. âI really wish you hadnât told me this.â
âI tried not to!â
âDid you, though?â
Damen feels like a weightâs been lifted of his chest. âIâm really glad you know, though.â
Nik sighs. âOf course you are.â
Damen knows he must have a stupid look on his face. He feels giddy. He hears Nik take a deep breath and knows whatâs coming.
âI know you donât want to hear this, Damen, but be careful, okay? You havenât even talked about whatever this is. He could just be toying with you.â
Damen shakes his head. âI donât know why, but I trust him, Nik.â