偽りの楽園

Sorry if this sounds weird I'm not attacking you or anything, but are you only saying that precisely because you're a mahiru oshi? (not referring to you) For real, who counts the days since the last main story like that, very very menhera behaviour. What about the other oshis, who literally don't give a shit about mahiru, and is holding a grudge that because of THEM their game is about to be destroyed. Game developers have their own plans, whenever I ask customer support for another game they be like こういう仕様です or we can't reveal our plans for the game. I don't get offended because it's their right. They can't be telling 一般人 confidential info. I've had my oshi not have ANY NEW CARDS for 1 year straight. People do point it out on twitter, but they don't go and attack the company building (difference between level headed jp and crazy cn i guess).

Other people do like rouga, the world does not revolve around incest mahiru. So they do admit, it's 100% about their oshi is so unpopular he's gonna be even MORE unpopular with another guy around so they have to kill him before he even exists in the game (セルラン speaks volumes about a キャラ人気). Guess as a 他推し myself, I can ask infold to delete mahiru because he makes me mad uncomfortable, and he diluted the gacha pool for me.

Also it's very entitled behaviour. They gave this as the launch content, take it or leave it. As an additional character you do not get the same perks as a 初期キャラ. Simple as that. Wasting resources to make it completely equal is the true wasting of resources. Story-wise? In 日日日's words, "もう書くことない".

Answer:

No, I’m looking at this situation as someone who only says very loosely that Mahiru is my favourite character in the sense that he's the one I have the most goodwill for in a pool of indifference. Other people kept track for both Mahiru and Shin, but the immediate number I saw only mentioned Mahiru so I only referenced that. The overall argument also affects the other existing love interests for future content. This means it's not a matter of interest only to Mahiru fans.

The thing is, you’re looking at the situation with the mindset that this is a Japanese game following Japanese expectations, which it is not. Waiting upwards of a year for an unpopular character in a game with 40+ characters may be normal for a Japanese game, but that cannot be interpreted as respect for fans of that character either. Japanese players do complain about those things and they do end up quitting over that. It may not have as much fanfare as this particular situation but it does happen.

Chinese-made otome games of this type (companionship) follow Chinese otome game expectations, which are mostly that the heroine of the story is you, the love interests are written within Chinese regulatory and genre conventions, and there should be growth in the relationships over time. This means that the character actually has to get content updates to match those expectations.

In games other than Love and Deep Space, you get to see the heroine’s interactions with all the men, which means absorbing their content is usually a necessity rather than optional. In For All Time/Lovebrush Chronicles for example, you have to read the story of all of the love interests to understand the overarching world. That is how they balance the content. Their updates are not individual standalone card stories like Japanese games. It is not entitlement as much as expectation in this case.

It’s easy to call Chinese fans crazy, but ignores a lot of the events happening locally in China. Papergames has a reputation for exacerbating fan hostilities and straight up ignoring cautionary, prior experiences (the famous Shou/Ling Xiao addition into Love and Producer). Like I said prior, it was the attention of the wider public that caused them to immediately withdraw their plans since they’d dismissed initial backlash, issuing a statement of intent to release Rouga, but reversed the decision once national attention was on them.

This also has nothing to do with what tropes you, me or anyone else individually for that matter, find uncomfortable. Even with the known addition of Mahiru and Shin, complaints have been there literally from the beginning about content disparity. The fear is that this type of imbalance would only get worse with a new addition. Papergames has done nothing to address this disparity aside from one announcement in the recent Rouga stream promising “more content” which was one of the reasons for backlash. 

(continued)

So let's say you have completely ignore Wolfy Man. You focus on your man, you like the sweet words he said to you but wait! Why did it went from 40 minute story to 30-20 minute story? Oops! They gotta make more room for Wolfy Man content so gotta cut some time! What is that? Main Story is delayed more to make room for Wolfy Man? I guess it's another likely one more year main story wait time as if that is not worse than FGO where players waited a year until Lostbelt 6 update. Hey wdym I gotta wait 1-2 more months of Solo events until it's time for my man? But waiting for more months for 30-40 minute content is ridiculous! Hey wdym I gotta wait more months or maybe a year for one content of very little romantic progress of my man? That's going to take too long!

You see, JP Otome gacha is fine since they operate differently. Quantity just doesn't work on CN Otome gacha format and PG's decision isn't making anything better. Hope they could understand but knowing their emotional outbreak, there's no hope for them and that game itself :>

Reply:

I understand and agree with your point that increasing the cast means increasing developmental time/diluting gacha pools. However I think the cancellation of him (by Papergames, not the social “cancellation” by fans) extends well past just the effort required to maintain the content and backlash from the community. My understanding is that Papergames only made this move after political and social issues were dragged in which attracted the attention of the wider population/government.

There was good reason for the greater fanbase to reject this update and there was good reason for Papergames to heed their words. They failed to (or they refused to, in line with their usual stance), which led to escalation and eventually what I see as an ultimatum from the company.

The comparison that has come up several times in the international community with regards to adding in love interests as “normal” doesn’t apply because fundamentally the goals of Chinese companionship otome games like L&DS versus Japanese developed, mostly self-contained games like Ikemen Villain are different. Companionship means the relationship is meant to grow with the player in simulation. Self-contained games (route-based) don't portray continuous relationship evolution and new content only serves as additional/extra content. 

Growth is also significantly harder to implement if every update means that the developer needs to update the relationship for 6 characters, with content that is in much greater quantity. Though that being said, even without the 6th addition, updates were already a problem with Xia Yizhou/Caleb not having a main story update in upwards of 500 days already which players have already seen as a betrayal of equality for the love interests.

So all in all, a difficult situation for the developer was made worse by poor handling before and after the matter. If the company can’t even keep a majority of fans happy, then blaming fans for not taking it sitting down is just shifting the blame.

I suppose this is the difference between the court of law and the court of public opinion.

My personal disclaimer is that I am not a defendant nor claimant in this case. I do not want to argue with anyone nor do I have the energy to. 

I’ve looked at the judgment summaries and the other releases made and the general idea is that Hanamura sued Yuiga for defamation over the claims of tracing. As Yuiga made the allegation of tracing, she needed to provide adequate evidence of such claims. The court examined Yuiga’s evidence and based on creation times of certain pieces, access to each piece, the overlapping lines and similarities arising from styles. The court ruled that some pieces were chronologically impossible or inaccessible, that heavy editing (rotating, size changing, mirroring etc.) was unreliable and that stylistic conventions meant that features were likely to show similarities. Consequently this meant that there was insufficient evidence as the entire comparison process was considered compromised.

However this does not mean they ruled that Hanamura had never traced anything, ever, the ruling was that there was not enough evidence for Yuiga to make that claim and therefore was defamation. The finding is a clear “there is not enough evidence to prove that she had traced Yuiga’s works” which is a separate finding from “she is innocent” which requires its own proof. 

The fact that Yuiga’s claim relied heavily on overlaps that required a degree of editing was detrimental, as the court concluded that was not a reliable method of demonstrating tracing. This was a reasonable criticism since they also demonstrated that there could be overlaps with anything if you force it enough. The main issue is that there is no means to identify false positives with false negatives in this way and when the method itself is questioned, the burden of proof becomes very high.

There’s no indication of what proportion of the works Yuiga claimed as evidence fell into each category so it’s difficult to comment on how the case was handled.

In the case of generally targeted games, I’m not confident that it’s purely a budget issue as normally these kinds of RPG/adventure-type games are largely targeted at guys to begin with. Whether a self-fulfilling prophecy or something else, there may not be enough incentive to include content that would be popular with girls. When you have a title that skews too much to one demographic, adding in content for the other demographic may negatively affect the primary one. We can see this kind of reaction from fans of otome games and galge, when at its heart they are similar, but each target audience has hesitation to engage with the others’ content.

That being said, my understanding is that a majority of male players of games with JRPGs with romantic elements are largely indifferent to them rather than actively seeking out games with that content. For the most part, pairing characters are usually for the benefit of in-game buffs rather than relationship chemistry.

For romance game fans, I suppose such content is a bonus, but that is unlikely the case for everyone.

Message:

Ya know, about the "western audience" playing Otome. While there's many valid statements to say how non east asian players doesn't understand Otome, there's ONE major thing where the other side doesn't want to understand the kind of self insert the "west" wants which end up making themselves not be considered a self insert anymore even tho deep down they still do to certain aspect. If I explained it to them, they might get angry and insist on not considering it as "true self insert" which goes to say they don't like to understand, lol. Cuz right now, the essence of self projection has deteriorated so much that even a hand or eyeless illustration isn't enough anymore. It even has deteriorated so much that their definition of self inserting now is making the screen exist and not the "you are in that world" of implied narrative as that's not considered self inserting according to them anymore and now the screen existing is their only means to be part of inserting and be the "purest" now.

East asia Otome players just tacitly agreed that a protagonist being pathetic aka not having active role makes it not only easier to self insert but also more screentime for the male leads. But the non east asia, while they don't hate male leads having the focus cuz they know that's the market of the game & they also like the male leads, they absolutely despises writing that purposely makes you, the protagonist, a dumb one that cannot help but be pathetic. They want a role that doesn't make you be purposely dumb to be much more closer to the man you love. It is especially worse when the non-active role makes you implied you are not part of that world all along so what's the use of self inserting when there's nothing to insert? But because every self insert games and novels always gets rid of traits that actually moves the plot forward smoothly to make you closer to your man in the name of "ambiguity", they just cannot self insert at all and gave up considering themselves as that.

Even when it comes to discussing about the game. In east asia if you comment about the female protagonist even if it's not more than male lead, you're not considered self insert. But non asia can just make you consider as self insert or not depending on your own because they believe every individuals have different methods.

The last thing is funny even tho this is more in general stuff than Otome but it's still considered. Both east asia and west have hatred to the protagonists for different reasons, lmao. In west, focus on protagonist means it's self inserting. For east asia, focus on protagonist even if not defining traits means you are a shipper or a parent 😂

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It’s normal that there will be differences in the way people perceive these features depending on their locale since it would be shaped by their cultural experiences. However I think that is more of a reason to stop each side from willfully poking their heads into the others’ to critically prod at the differences. After all, I think everyone has points of contention when viewed by others but the reason for that view is more often than not overlooked. 

For example, the point about heroine being passive as the accepted default in Asia is not necessarily true when considering the differences between Japanese and Chinese otome game fandoms, which are both Asian. Japanese fans may prefer that (only in the case of self-inserting, since those who do not, prefer a proper personality) but Chinese fans prefer a heroine who can grow with her love interest and thus does not always only play a supporting role in the background for the man to shine.

As much as I don’t want to see these things…yes I have.

I think with this incident and all the other recent incidents in the JP otome game fandom, things have begun to reach a boiling point where everyone is just airing grievances whether they’re appropriate, deserved or not. Adding in recency bias, people don’t even realise that referring to the player character by their default name has been done in the past as well.

There’s always some sort of goal post moving when it comes to these kinds of criticisms.

Even if they’re talking purely about gacha games, there are non-romance games aimed at women like Touken Ranbu, Twisted Wonderland etc. which would satisfy the desire for only male characters without the (otome) romantic attachment. In fact it was the same kind of mindset that helped these games blow up in Japan to cause a shift from purely otome games on mobile towards development of non-romantic (joseimuke) games as well. The non-answers of "if you want a male character, go play *insert gacha otome here*" were never made in good faith since they’re unlikely to be familiar with any of the titles before offering it up, so while they’re irritating, I don’t think anyone expects it to be taken seriously.

Unfortunately, while Japan has had the last decade or so to adjust to the market shifts and changes with the inclusion of non-romance games, other countries are still experiencing that first exposure without really understanding romance games in the first place. 

Glad you said it is an un-woke opinion because that’s just it lol. While I don’t fully expect people to understand that otome game developers and fans have had to fight tooth and nail to get to this point, dismissing the entire category as “mainstream therefore should make way for others” is clearly misunderstanding where otome games stand currently within the gaming community to begin with.

It isn’t mutually exclusive, because it’s not a zero sum game. Having both otome games and inclusive games are a possibility given if people show enough interest or passion. But the way people lobby straight at otome gamers/developers is forcing it to become a “one or another” situation. This is the reason people should support those who do provide what they want instead of telling others to expand their scope.

Does it get exhausting? It’s exhausting the first time it rolls around, let alone the 50th time, in the same month hahaha. This is the biggest reason I’ve started reducing the amount of time I spend on twitter.

Male MC drama and “otome games are not good enough as is” whatnot is honestly the most exhausting, next to all the unconscious racist behaviour that’s rampant. With the amount of spite people have toward a genre they supposedly are fans of, they could have lobbied for more games under the genres which have what they actually want instead of snubbing them due to their own prejudices. But unfortunately this is what the internet is like most of the time now, people are irrationally unwilling to revise their positions nor accept suggestions.

For the first time I feel like I’m not terminally online enough to understand what is happening.

But anyways, I don’t think anime itself is the best point to learn Japanese/culture from either.

Socially, 僕 (boku) is used by men in conversation with their equals or lower, while 俺 (ore) is used similarly but with those more familiar/close to the speaker. Both are considered too casual for formal situations but boku is softer.

Otome games aren’t a hobby, they're a lifestyle— Just kidding. Thanks for reading my posts. People’s interests come and go so it’s not surprising that some people end up quitting for one reason or another. For otome games, it also depends on how much access you have to different titles whether it be by funds or language because variety is important to how much interest you retain.

I’d be lying if I say I didn’t get sick of the same kind of plot developments, character archetype portrayals or just poor story telling in general, but in my experience, this kind of issue only happens when you stick with a specific creator (company or writing team). That’s why I play widely; play games on different platforms, games from different eras and doujin games. This is the best way to effectively find some interesting games.

As someone with a whole other life offline (surprising, I know), it also means that recently I haven’t been able to play on more inconvenient platforms like PC and console as much. That’s where mobile games come in for me. When I feel something lacks depth, I can switch back to a self-contained console game once I have free time. And repeat the process, which stops it from becoming a monotonous hobby.

That being said, it’s not as if otome games are my only hobby either. So it's important to maintain some sort of balance, between hobbies, between platforms and titles. As you can probably also tell, I also don’t usually force myself to finish a specific quota of games because the moment you start doing that, it begins to feel more like a chore than a hobby.

Hello! I tried to poke around to see if there was anything substantial from official sources but as expected, these are probably all internal considerations so it’s difficult to comment on conclusively.

Have there been any recent otome game anime adaptations?  

No, there have not. CollarxMalice was the latest anime adaptation from my search as well, unless you consider the Uta no Prince-sama movies also part of an otome franchise, then that would be the latest otome game-based anime.

2. Why have there been less anime adaptations of otome games?

I’ve reframed this question from ‘are there less’ to ‘why are there less adaptations?’ since it’s a given and I believe you’re also thinking along the same lines already. I think there’s a lot of reasons for this, many of which have to do with the trends in Japan. The biggest one arguably is the decreased interest in otome games in general as can be seen in the number of titles released compared to historical numbers. This trend has been mirrored by galge as well, and also in the amount of anime adaptations of them (this is a list of R18 game anime adaptations to 2022, a majority male-targeted, but I think it translates my message adequately).

Anime adaptations of anything require a substantial amount of interest, capital and potential returns. If the source material’s own market is already struggling, branching out (as in the case of anime adaptations) is likely to cause more loss. Tangentially related are these questions I answered in the past about a decline in shoujo-media anime adaptations.

However, while we may think of “media mix” as anime series or movies, there has also been an increasing number of other types such as live actions (movies or dramas, also touched on in the questions above) and stage plays. All of Otomate’s top-selling otome games have been adapted for stage as can be seen on this list. Whereas in the past top otome game sellers have had anime adaptations alongside stage adaptations (eg. AMNESIA, Code Realize, Hanayaka Waga Ichizoku etc.), more recently we’ve seen many stage adaptation only announcements (9RIP, Bilshana, Piofore etc.). However live action adaptations are likely to fall under the same constraints as anime productions as functionally they are similar and rely on similar forms of mass-marketing and large audience base to recoup costs leading to higher risk. The latest live action adaptations I could find were Hakuouki (2022) and Doubt (2019) which are just as infrequent as anime adapations.

Potentially a reason for stage play-only preference would be a lower associated cost for production in comparison to anime or live actions given a lower upfront cost, with a shorter run and minimal post production. There would be a higher financial risk in adapting for television or cinema such as the need for famous actors, well-known staff and broader distribution to increase visibility and chances for success. Stage productions can overcome these through using lesser known actors and staff while being less reliant on mass marketing due to audience size constraints thus decreasing cost. Additionally with an interested audience already present at the venue means they can also sell merchandise directly removing associated middleman costs (store distribution, shipping and logistics). This acts as a safe means for generating revenue on top of reducing risks of losing money. In comparison, when anime or live action productions fail, the losses tend to be greater due to the initial greater investment.

Another argument against film adaptations (both live action and anime) falls under a feature of the source content, multiple routes. When deciding whether to adapt an otome game for film, there would likely be a limit to the amount of content that could be featured due to time constraints leading to a linear story unlike the source material. Thus staff would have to either adapt a specific game route, merge route stories or create a completely new story. This presents as a dilemma for the source material as:

Adapt the content faithfully and it will cannibalise the number of potential new players who gain interest in the source game

Adapt the content too poorly by taking liberties and it will harm the reputation of the source game, losing interest from potential players

I am most definitely! Not a native! Not even native level! Hahaha. Just a weab.

This wouldn’t be the first time I’ve been asked about learning Japanese, not gonna lie.

Regardless of the method of learning, I believe the biggest concern for any learner is motivation. It is important to have a goal that can keep you focused. If one isn’t even passionate enough to keep trying as mistakes and confusion would be constant when one is new, it would become impossible to retain any useful information. 

I’ve reiterated that my method was constant exposure after professionally taught fundamentals (for example learning in school, taking classes). I did have a short gap between quitting the subject in school for other reasons and picking it back up with otome games a few years later which could have been demotivating, but luckily when you’re younger, these skills are retained much easier.

So my main advice would be to find a method of exposure and constant stimulation that you personally find enjoyable. Anything else is secondary to that because as the saying goes, “when there’s a will, there’s a way”.

I’ve compiled some questions I’ve answered in the past that might be helpful for learners depending on their level:

Places to obtain digital manga and their pros and cons

Otome games aimed at younger audiences with simpler language

Oh, oh no. Hahaha. You’ve made me realise that I didn’t do enough research when I wrote that post 7 years ago. I don’t think the post is accurate at all anymore. I’ve gone back and revised the blog post.

The reason I completely forgot about it was because all the recent discussions about the term misconstrues the “otome” part of “otome game” to literally mean “it is targeted at maidens (otome) so only maidens can play”. This kind of logic is flawed in that no further clarification can ever be made as to what constitutes a “maiden”, leading to discussions rife with misinformation.

In the context of that tweet, the descriptor “otome”, “BL”, “yuri” do not refer to the audience nor the protagonists, but to the content matter. All three are categories of romance so it's specifically about the types portrayed. Otome means that the romantic content is GxB, BL (boy's love) means that the romantic content is BxB, yuri means that the romantic content is GxG. In the case of galge/”gal games”, which are romance games that focus on BxG romance, it is not immediately obvious just like the otome label.

Here it is purely from the perspective of marketing and what drives commercial companies to categorise their products under these labels. This is a previous question I got about “otome” media outside of games and how I came to the conclusion “otome” is about content. 

In my post about yumejoshi and fujoshi to a minor extent, this perspective is purely about fandom. The terms yumejoshi and fujoshi are fandom terms whereas when I mention demographic, that is referring to marketing terms. For example, BL products aren’t targeted at fujoshi, it’s officially considered targeted at women. However despite this broad labelling and that women do not necessarily all share the same interests, in actuality it targets a subgroup of women who are interested in gay romance. “Fujoshi” is the self-given fan label for consumers of that content; companies do not refer to their fans in an official capacity in this manner.

In my original blog post, I thought “otome” referred to a fan group in the same way as “fujoshi”, but for BxG shippers and distinct from yumejoshi. In terms of the label “otome” for otome game fans, there does appear to be evidence that early fans were referred to as “otome” in fan media which was then adopted by commercial game companies. However, nowadays not many, if anyone at all, refers to fans of otome works as “otome”. Otome media is still much more likely to be branded as content for yumejoshi by fans despite a fan poll of almost 55 thousand people demonstrating a majority of players did not self-insert or consider the heroine as themselves when playing otome games.

So to summarise the correct information:

Otome, yuri, BL refer to romantic content, specifically ship conformations

Otome and BL games are both categories of games aimed at a female audience but not necessarily the same people

Yumejoshi and fujoshi are self-given fan labels, they are not official demographic labels

I hope that makes it clear what I meant without confusing you further. I feel guilty writing something incorrectly earlier, so I can only hope there wasn’t much damage done.

I’m not sure what I can really do to measure this change?

There are people who say they will never buy a game again from Broccoli but whether they did that or not, I have no way to check.

Otome games, particularly one off purchase games, as a market is also getting smaller and smaller so players will feel particularly more inclined to protect their niche. However people have been complaining about the same things we’re seeing now about otome games as far back as 2011.

Otome games didn’t “separate from BL and galge”, they originated as something else to begin with. There were games that attempted to mix these elements early on, but given they were overtaken by the specific genres, they likely proved to be less fruitful for companies to pursue over limiting the games to specific content.