thinking about egregious dykery deltarune tweet
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thinking about egregious dykery deltarune tweet

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god it's hard to tell because of the lighting here, but her expression when she thanks Kris for walking her home is so loving it hurts.
I don't want to hear a single thing about how she's replacing or abandoning Kris, you look at her face and tell me she has any intention of ever doing that.
how polite!!!!
New chapter means new absurd widespread meme that spawned over night
Okay, can we talk about how Susie interacts with Orange for one second? Like, I see absolutely no one talking about these two, which definitely has some implications regarding Susie's past. Look here-
Susie had a whole thing about hiding her tail, right?
And it's clear that Susie is actually empathising with Orange with her situation.
Susie trying to reassure Orange that it's okay they aren't human or look like the others...
And this one is the most interesting, because it seems the whole thing about "pretending to have the odd one fit in" clearly upset Susie here. Normally, Susie isn't someone that would resort to back to "beating up enemies" like in Ch 1, but its clear that she didn't like the direction of how things were going that she forces the group to act in this way.
We know that Kris' whole thing is about how they feel different from the rest of the town for being the only human in a town full of monsters, right? Orange seems to be a reflection of this, yet it's SUSIE, not Kris, who empathises with Orange the most here, out of all of the 7 Flowers. They even have a whole thing about them being HUNGRY when we first meet them, and Susie has food insecurity.
The whole hiding the tail thing, humans not having tails, Susie trying to reassure Orange that it's okay to be different.
Guys. Do you not realise what this is all implying?
Could Susie have lived with humans...?
That's why Susie was triggered when they tried to pretend to be a mouse to make Orange fit in. Because that's what happened to her. Susie says that those who usually tried to be friends with her often did it as a joke.
Holy shit.
Orange is a parallel to younger Susie just like how Aqua is a parallel to younger Kris. (And note that cyan and orange as considered opposites/complimentary in UTDR with the whole "moving vs staying still" mechanics of the two.)
There's also the fact that Orange is the one who ends up becoming besties with Pink. Pink being the Kris + Player parallel... Orange and Pink is Susie and Kris. oh my god.
...AND NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT THIS???

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I genuinely do not understand how people are calling chapter 5 filler when it sets up so much about the games themes of escapism and being stuck in the past and how eventually you have to let go and move forward.
This is done through literally every aspect of the chapter like Asgore’s arc of moving on with his life and accepting what has happened before it hurts more people or Susie considering castle town her home (which is how both the chapter starts and ends) while also introducing more for her to care about in the light world in contrast (her relationship with Noelle).
But most importantly it’s done through Ralsei, the focus point of the chapter, and his existence as “the impossibility” being directly brought into question by Flowery who both repeatedly challenges his ideals and also introduces the concept of beings who are somewhere between lightner and darkner. Which is seeming more and more likely to be what Ralsei is too.
This chapter feels like a distraction from the big plot revelations because that’s the point. “One last adventure before the sun goes down.” It reminds the player just how meaningful and fun the dark worlds have been just after their fate was brought into question through the prophecy.
If deltarune does end with the lightners having to let go of castle town / the dark worlds and the player having to let go of the game it’s going to hit a lot harder with chapter 5 then it ever would without.
obsessed with kris using things the player can't see to communicate with other characters. drawing on the window in the diner. 80% as much honey on toast as usual. silly faces and nodding/shaking their head. changing the tone of what we make them say to make it clear that they mean it differently. i love that it's shown time and time again that kris ISN'T apathetic about anything. kris wants friends. kris has boundaries and wants mom to know that what she did made them feel bad. kris wants the people in their life to be happy and kris wants affection. i love kris deltarune
I’ve seen a lot of people calling weird route Noelle “Changed Noelle” like she’s some other person or being entirely now, and while I do think there’s some level of fantasy elements affecting her through the thorn ring and the soul, I also think it ignores so much of her character to act like she’s some completely different person than normal route Noelle. In reality they’re just two sides of the same person brought out through contrasting experiences.
NR Noelle is a deeply troubled and hurting girl who finally gets a chance to heal, to find people and moments that make her not want to “run away” anymore. That’s why Susie is so good for, she’s someone Noelle romanticised hurting her only to fall in love with the Susie who would never.
WR Noelle is a deeply troubled and hurting girl abused and taken advantage of by someone puppeting the body of her estranged best friend who she deeply longs to reconnect with. Someone she trusted would never hurt her only to be proven wrong in the opposite way to Susie.
She’s still Noelle. She’s who Noelle could have always been and who she’s been trying so hard NOT to be her whole life. But you forced her to become this. You pushed all of her worst traits she tried so hard to hide until they broke her beyond repair.
You did this.
She isn’t possessed, I don’t even think she knows she’s in a video game like I’ve seen so many people assume. All I see is a suicidal girl begging to break free from the cycle of quiet abuse her life has been for so long, now that it’s gotten too bad to cope.
She’s real. Under all the fantasy of the soul or the dark world, she’s a painfully real person having a painfully real breakdown.
You did this to her.
i knew it from the start

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There really was a lot of importan relationship moments taking place in or around water this chapter.
The cute Suselle confession at the lake
The Krusie angst at the water ledge
The Kralsei scene in the bath
And Kriselle and the, well… *gestures at the horrors*
This was indeed the Relationships Chapter!
I was thinking on it this morning a bit, and I suspect that perhaps a lot of people were frustrated with this chapter because they were expecting all this lore and answers and such, and instead we mostly just got stuff about the relationships, and people consider that...frivolous, I suppose?
But the reality of it is is that this chapter was basically Toby beating us over the head with a giant squeaky hammer labelled THE WAY THE CHARACTERS FEEL AND CARE ABOUT EACH OTHER IS GOING TO BE REALLY IMPORTANT FOR THE STORY YOU GUYS!!!
Toby Fox why must you always make my favourite characters / duos die in a glorified double suicide…
First Chara and Asriel and now Kris and Noelle…
“If YOU could do something crazy right now, what would you do?”
“I’d jump out the window! I’d grow big angel wings, and fly as far as I can, gazing back at it all…”
I know every suselle shipper under the sun (pun intended) has been drawing this scene but I HAD to okay
(we don’t talk about the weird route)
Wordless version:
OH MY GOD THE FLORALSEI SHIRT WAS FORESHADOWING FOR CHAPTER 5

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New Noelle
all right so. another post, this time asking What The Heck Is Up With Susie This Chapter?
i fully trust that there's a reason for this (and have a bit of my own thoughts on the matter), but did anyone else notice the weird inconsistencies with susie in chapter 5? here's a list of things i noticed that felt weird:
she can wear ribbons now. that's nice for gameplay reasons (esp with this chapter's secret boss, where you're heavily disincentivized to use healing spells & you want to be spending ralsei's action on Lovely Boy), but it's kinda weird for her characterization. if it were just this, i'd say "awww look she's grown more comfortable with herself!" but....
adding onto that, she's chill with being called Princess by flowery. that feels weird/ick for a number of reasons: 1) due to how GNC she is, and this is really feminine; 2) it could easily be taken as something derogatory, but she's chill with it; 3) given what types of other games this chapter is referencing, it has the implication of removing her agency. think about classic JRPs; do those princesses... do anything? do they have agency? no. but that's susie's whole thing. she breaks the rules, she won't let herself be controlled, she goes against the grain. but not this chapter (more on this later)
she ditches ralsei and kris to find flowery & does not intuitively understand stuff that's going on with them. she isn't able to empathize with them. that's a First.
she doesn't get mad when presented with the possibility that ralsei could be doing way more than she currently does. she doesn't even question it, despite how much she pressed her last chapter about it. she's just like "oh sick you can do fireballs". she also just casually accepts what flowery tells her about the metanarrative of the game and does not ask ralsei for more information. moves on. it's very strange.
i really did not expect her to be so gung-ho on noelle stuff this chapter, given how chapter 4 ended. i thought she was going to struggle to be present for her date because of how distracted i thought she'd be by the prophecy & knight. i even had it on my ch5 bingo that she'd end up unwillingly ditching noelle partway through to handle dark world stuff (ironic in retrospect, given how it actually played out). instead, all she can think about is noelle. everything is about noelle to her. even at the very end of the chapter, she brings it back to noelle. this is coming from a girl who intentionally used noelle's crush on her to get access to her house in search of a code in chapter 4. this has been building, true — but not to the point where every one of susie's thoughts revolves around her.
susie has begun to take kris for granted. in previous chapters, she expressed insecurity over kris' presence for many things, becoming awkward or shy whenever she would say "well, of course you'd be there". and she always explicitly said that of course she and kris are sticking together. she's continuously nervous about and surprised by kris really wanting her around all the time. she (and noelle!) even think to themselves that it would be easier to be alone together if kris were with them. this chapter? she seeks none of those affirmations. and the chapter ends on her literally shutting the door in their face, not allowing them entrance into her "home" when they have so eagerly welcomed her into theirs.
and speaking of the end of the chapter, it's very strange for her to single out kris and name the dark world as their thing. this is something a lot of players are able to recognize, noting that kris remains a constant for susie between the dark and light worlds, but susie herself does not. her friendship with ralsei is just as meaningful to her as her friendship with kris. ralsei is not a fantasy or escape for her. ralsei is very, very real. it would make more sense if she brought her into this conversation, but she doesn't. ralsei is depicted alongside all the other darkners in the dark world. she is not treated, for the first time ever, as someone more meaningful than the average darkner to susie.
we need to remember that susie is very, very scared of losing the One Good Thing she's gotten. she's deeply protective of Kris, Ralsei, Castle Town and all her other friends, and she doesn't want other people butting in on it because that might mean she loses it. it's why she's so reluctant to let noelle join the party in chapter 2 despite liking her. it's why she's so protective of the dark world. it's not really about the escape, the fantasy, as much as that is a huge motivation for her; at the end of the day, what susie cares about most is her friends. the bonds that she has, against all odds, managed to form.
these behaviours are weird for her. passivity is not susie's style; she is not the type to sit back and let stuff happen or go with the flow. she isn't the type to accept the role other people want her to play. her whole arc last chapter was about believing in herself and gaining confidence! it was emphasized to her, over and over, that she has the power to change fate! that she can write her own story. that she can become more than what the prophecy has designated her to be.
yet in this chapter, we see that susie is, more or less, going along with the prophecy. heres a couple things to note about the prophecy and how it depicts her: 1) the depictions of her as "the girl" are significantly more feminine in appearance than she normally is (styled long hair, dress/robe); 2) the language is very passive. "love finds the girl", not "the girl finds love". "the girl, with hope crossed on her heart", not "the girl who crossed hope onto her heart". its passive. what did we note earlier? this chapter, susie is more okay with femininity and she is taking a strangely more passive role in the narrative.
so, here's my take.
in this post, i talked about the "intended narrative" as written by Gaster. here's a screenshot in case you dont wanna go read it:
one of the things i noted was that suselle is clearly meant to be part of that "intended narrative", something that will inevitably happen regardless of anyone's actions. something that, perhaps, Gaster is pushing towards. in-universe, Gaster has written a story, and this is part of it.
what im now wondering is... is this somehow a Gaster influence on the narrative?
is he speeding up, Somehow, what's happening? have these relationships not progressed to the satisfactory point yet? is he developing them faster in order to reach the level expected for these arcs?
idk how the hell he would even manage to exert influence like this (perhaps because we finally had a titan unleash last chapter? it unlocked something?), but it's at least plausible. im doubtful that kris did or said anything to make her distrustful during the night (we do get confirmation that they jumped out their window, but given that susie slept in their bed in castle town, i'm really doubtful that they managed to talk to her about anything substantial).
i dont believe this is just OOC writing from toby. i trust him too much for that & the quality of the work up to now (and including Everything Else in chapter 5, too) speaks for itself. so i'm wondering what this shift in susie's behaviour could mean, and i don't really believe that she's just falling far too deeply into escapist fantasy, either. perhaps that's it, but all these things still nag at me if so.