"Special Interview: The Past, Present, and Future of Pokémon Mystery Dungeon"
Nintendo DREAM. Volume #181. Spring 2009.
Translation by Smaturin. Editing and formatting by NeonHumBuzz.
Seiichiro Nagahata (Chunsoft)
Director, Head of Development Department
Shinichiro Tomie (Chunsoft)
Development Department, Planning Section, Game Producer
Hironori Ishigami (Chunsoft)
Development Department, Programmer
Kunimi Kawamura (The Pokémon Company)
Development Supervisor, Head of Development Management Department
The newest installment, Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky (hereafter referred to as "Sky"), is set to be released soon. This time the subtitle is "Explorers of Sky," but from the perspective of the average player, during "Explorers of Time" and "Explorers of Darkness" (hereafter referred to as "Time" and "Darkness"), one would likely imagine Dialga and Palkia when thinking of "Time." So "Time/Sky" would seem like the normal way to go. Why did you start with "Time/Darkness" and then go on to "Sky" for this game?
Kawamura: That was exactly what I wanted. To have our players think just that. As I’m sure there are still people who have not played Time/Darkness yet, I cannot say anything specific, but a Pokémon from Time actually appears in the first ending. And in the story after the ending, a Pokémon from Darkness appears. Does that explain it!?
Kawamura: Also, if we went with "Time" and "Sky" just because it was Dialga and Palkia, that would be too plain and predictable. And so we brought in "Darkness" in order to differentiate.
In that case, what were you imagining with Sky?
Kawamura: Sky is also "Space" and "Air" and can have many different meanings.
Shaymin’s Sky Forme is also based on "Sky."
Kawamura: Aside from stuff like that, we made Explorers of Sky with the concept of it being the definite version of the Explorers series. And so we wanted to convey the sense of expanding. "Sky" just happened to be perfectly fitting, but it took us a while to reach that conclusion. We also considered the "Sky" of outer space, but it was pointed out that this did not seem very bright. During development, there was also a film title that had "Sky" written as "Frozen Sky" (2008 film "Pokémon: Giratina & the Sky Warrior"), and so we wanted something more straightforward, and settled on the current "Sky."
For "Sky," the new additions for the protagonist are Riolu, Shinx, Eevee, Phanpy and Vulpix. How did you go about selecting these 5?
Tomie: When selecting the protagonist candidates for "Red Rescue Team/Blue Rescue Team" (hereafter referred to as "Red/Blue"), I confided in Kawamura-san during the process and came to the realization that the Pokémon I would choose were not very popular.
Tomie: And so I withdrew from the process for Time/Darkness, and had Kawamura-san choose them. Also, there was a member of staff who really wanted Phanpy included. In the end, it’s better for the story if the protagonist and friends are Pokémon that look cute.
Kawamura: Also, with Eevee, there was this girl from France who was a fan of Pokémon Mystery Dungeon, and told us, "I love Eevee so much, so please make it the protagonist!"
Tomie: There was a keynote in France for Time/Darkness. And we received that question.
Kawamura: Eevee is especially popular among girls. Other criteria would be how expressive they were, the readability of emotions when they pop up in the portraits. The evolution, popularity, and if they look cute when walking… we considered different aspects while choosing until the current lineup remained.
"Remained." So there were many other candidates at first?
Kawamura: Indeed. For instance, Buneary was a candidate, but as its Ability is "Klutz," it cannot use the effects of the items it holds. Pachirisu was also a candidate, but when entering the early dungeons, it would be very difficult if you didn’t have a move that was decently strong. There were various reasons like that.
It’s been the case ever since Red/Blue, but what is the reason for "answering questions to determine the protagonist"?
Tomie: Ultimately, it comes from the setting of "you = protagonist", and "you have suddenly turned into a Pokémon one day." While being able to choose freely would be fine, that feeling of "boom, you are this Pokémon!", and having it decided for you might make it more relatable. Besides, I thought that if you don’t know which Pokémon you will become, then having one that is closer to your personality will allow for more conversation between players. Like, "I became Turtwig" and "I’m Torchic."
There are many new elements to Sky, but the Special Episodes have drawn the most attention.
Tomie: When it came to creating Sky, at first, we were thinking of making small changes to the scenarios of the main game. But after reconsidering it, we realized that it should not be touched. If we did make changes, it would just be adding a little something to the start of the story, or adding a little story after the ending. Those were the only choices we had. If that is the case, then we might as well add a side story, which would give us more freedom and allow us to expand. That was the conclusion we settled on.
I understand that the Special Episodes appear after advancing in the story to certain points?
Tomie: They do get unlocked as you play the game.
Kawamura: For instance, if Bidoof’s Special Episode appeared in the beginning, it would not be as enjoyable, since you do not understand what Bidoof’s role is in the main story. They are made to appear on the Menu Screen at the perfect time, when the foundation for enjoying the story has been set.
By the way, will the results of playing these Special Episodes be reflected in the main game?
Ishigami: Acquired items can be carried back with you to the main game. Otherwise, it would not be very fun.
How did you decide what character’s perspective to use for the Special Episodes?
Tomie: First of all, I knew that I wanted to use Grovyle. Ever since development on Time/Darkness had completed, I wanted to do it if I got the chance.
Kawamura: In order for players of Time/Darkness to enjoy it, we chose characters that had a lot of interactions with the guild members or protagonist. Like Bidoof (laughs).
These Special Episodes, like with Grovyle, for instance, it’s a story about returning to the future through the Dimensional Hole. Did this setting already exist during Time/Darkness?
Tomie: Not as a setting, no. Personally, I did have a vague idea of how it would be. As it relates to the ending, I cannot give away too much here, but I received a lot of comments from fans who wanted us to "save Grovyle too." I understood how they felt, and since it was from people who felt very strongly about Grovyle, it made me very happy. On the other hand, there was also a part of me that felt, "that's wrong." And with Sky, I had the chance to do something about it, which I was happy to do.
So Grovyle will appear in some other form… is that what you mean?
Tomie: Yes. It also means that Grovyle was doing his best! In the future world.
Spinda's Café has been added as a new facility. What is it, exactly?
Ishigami: As you advance in the game, I think you will have a lot of leftover items in your storage. Kangaskhan Storage has limited capacity, and so we wondered… if the leftover items could not be used for something else.
Tomie: Being able to turn Gummis into drinks is quite nice, isn’t it? If you pick up a Gummi, you definitely should go to the Juice Bar to get a drink.
The Recycle Shop also looks very interesting.
Tomie: It is quite interesting. I think that I’ve spent nearly half of the game wandering around there.
Ishigami: It’s like a place that you definitely want to stop by every time you come back from a dungeon.
What kind of prizes can you win with the Recycle Shop lottery?
Nagahata: We made it so you can acquire some amazing items now. Like a scarf that raises your abilities, and things you usually wouldn’t be able to acquire until after the ending. But you can now get them early on.
The Secret Bazaar is another new element. Under what kind of circumstance does it appear?
Nagahata: In general, it is random. You can be walking and the hidden staircase will just suddenly appear. So, you wonder what it is and you go inside to find the Secret Bazaar sprawled out in front of you.
Kawamura: We wanted to have players experience some good things inside of the dungeon, so it wasn’t just the thrill of encountering enemies that you cannot beat. "Ah, there are interesting places like this." We prepared a place where you don’t have to fight.
One thing I thought was incredibly interesting was the Lookalike Items. Like the Oren Berry instead of the Oran Berry.
Tomie: I was the one who was in charge of this new element. I had decided to think about it after I finished writing the Special Episodes. And so when I came to the staff with it a few months later, saying, "I want to do this," they all started saying, "what!"
Tomie: The staff did not receive it well at first, but when I was writing, they gave me a lot of ideas. And from there, Kawamura-san and the other staff went through them until the current Lookalike Item was what remained.
Kawamura: It is very interesting!
Nagahata: It’s pretty terrible, isn’t it? (laughs)
Tomie: It’s fun to see the Reviser Seed being used. The programmers worked hard to make that.
Nagahata: They made it while saying, "won't this make young children cry?"
Ishigami: We even placed an explanation for the Lookalike Items in the tutorial.
Nagahata: You have to tell them that first. We were worried that if it came out suddenly, it would make people cry.
Various new elements have been added in Sky, but how is the difficulty in comparison to Time/Darkness?
Nagahata: Personally, I made it with the intent of it being about the same as Time/Darkness. And so it may seem easy for those who have played the series before, due to their experience.
Kawamura: In fact, during the Pokémon personality test that determines the protagonist in the beginning, you are asked if you have played Time/Darkness before. And the data balance changes a little depending on if you answer "yes" or "no." And so players of Time/Darkness and new players should be able to play it a little differently.
Nagahata: Also, in Time/Darkness, there were items that only appeared in Time, or only in Darkness, but in Sky, they all appear. For instance, in Time/Darkness, you may not have been able to get a Gummi that fits the protagonist type, and so you couldn’t raise your IQ… but this time, they appear with better balance, so the beginning of the game will be easier in some ways. However, we have also added some dungeons with higher difficulty.
For instance, a dungeon that is more difficult than Zero Isle…!?
Nagahata: There is. I thought that there would be no meaning in making something that was the same, so we made it even more difficult.
About the Exclusive Items from Time/Darkness, are there even more of them now?
Nagahata: There are. We have added nearly 400 of them.
Ishigami: We have them for everyone, including the Pokémon who did not have Exclusive Items in the previous games.
Kawamura: As there are many more types now, we made some adjustments to Croagunk's Swap Shop to make them easier to collect.
Nagahata: Since there are so many types of Pokémon, it’s quite difficult to get the Exclusive Item that you want, right? And so we added a system where if you "bring a certain item, you will receive an Exclusive Item." Also, you are able to send Exclusive Items from Time/Darkness over to Sky.
Ishigami: There is an advantage to sending Exclusive Items as well. As their Rarity goes up by 1 rank.
That’s very convenient! By the way, are Exclusive Items the only thing you can send?
Nagahata: No, you can send all items that were acquired in Time/Darkness over to Sky. For instance, if a newcomer who is starting with Sky, receives items from someone who played Time/Darkness, they may be able to enjoy a smoother adventure.
Aside from items, are there any network elements between Sky and Time/Darkness?
Ishigami: Interactions such as rescue requests and team battles in the Marowak Dojo are also possible between Sky and Time/Darkness. Request passwords can also be used as is. However, in regards to Wonder Mail, we plan to reveal something new for Sky, so it will not be compatible with Time/Darkness.
Kawamura: Furthermore, we have added something new in the form of demo dungeons. Ishihara (The Pokémon Company President and CEO, Tsunekazu Ishihara) had suggested that we could send a demo version through a Wi-Fi connection. Though, there were various problems, such as with capacity, and it was a lot of trouble for Chunsoft to implement.
Ishigami: In other words, even without the DS cartridge, you will be able to download and play the demo at Wi-Fi Stations and free spots. Also, players who have Sky will be able to send the demo dungeons to friends who do not own the game.
How much gameplay do they offer?
Kawamura: Some will be easy for complete beginners, while others will be challenging for Mystery Dungeon veterans. We made it with about 6 variations depending on difficulty.
Nagahata: Due to the limits with capacity, they are very compact. But they are made to convey what kind of game Mystery Dungeon really is.
As this is the first Pokémon Mystery Dungeon interview for Nintendo DREAM, please tell us how this collaboration between Pokémon and Mystery Dungeon came to be.
Kawamura: From the beginning, Ishihara was a big fan of Chunsoft’s Mystery Dungeon: Shiren the Wanderer series. So the start of it was the idea… that by combining this gameplay with the vast variety of Pokémon, we may be able to create a new world. I am also a big fan of Chunsoft’s games, so I was sure that the results would be very interesting. And so Ishihara went to Nakamura-san (Koichi Nakamura, Chunsoft Representative Director) and asked, "want to do this together?" and that led to where we are now.
Including each version, Sky will now be the 5th installment. Honestly, did you think it would continue this long?
Nagahata: If I am being honest, I was not thinking about anything. It was like, we will release it, and if it is received well enough, we’ll continue. Ultimately, Red/Blue were quite popular, so I think we were really lucky.
Also, the world of the Pokémon Mystery Dungeon series was pretty shocking. It's a world without humans and only Pokémon, where they talk normally. How did you come up with this idea?
Kawamura: If there were humans in the world of Pokémon Mystery Dungeon, this might not be the best example, but I thought the Pokémon would be like pets. In order to make scenarios where the player will relate to them, it would be best for it to be between Pokémon. However, since that had never been done in a Pokémon game up until then, we had to think about it seriously.
Tomie: Actually, when it comes to the world, while they do not make any appearances, humans do exist as far as the setting goes. But when discussing the world with Kawamura-san at the start, she said that she wanted to keep "Pokémon trainer throwing Pokéballs" as a separate thing. So, if it’s going to be a world of just Pokémon, which you can control, then the problem is how you make them communicate. After all, they have to be able to talk. And so there was much trial and error. At first we even considered having them say "pika-pika," and then have the meaning in parenthesis.
Ultimately, I think the world of Pokémon Mystery Dungeon was a great success. For Time/Darkness, we had a lot of comments from readers of Nintendo DREAM saying, "the story was amazing!" and "I cried!" How have you felt player reactions?
Tomie: As for me, I’m simply very happy. To be honest, that makes me more happy than the sales numbers. As someone who is a creator for a living, hearing that kind of reaction is a joy and gives me purpose in life. My feelings are really just, "thank you so much."
I get the impression that the stories are a lot more dramatic compared to the main Pokémon series. Was this always the direction you were going in while making it?
Tomie: I wouldn’t say that we were aiming to do that. To be honest, there was a lot of trial and error when it came to the scenarios. And there was a time when I considered going in a much more light-hearted direction. But then Ishihara-san said he wanted to "go with a classical story." And so I wondered how we could go with a classical approach. "Well, let’s go with a story of friendship between the protagonist and partner!" So after that was finally decided, I started writing what is now the finished story.
So Ishihara’s suggestion of "classical" is the reason for the current dramatic storylines.
Tomie: For instance, when it comes to Time/Darkness, there is a scene where bubbles are being blown by the coast. While writing the plot outline, I had decided at that point that I wanted to begin and end the story with bubbles. I thought that it was the life of the story while I was writing. As the graphics are also important for this scene, in spite of us not really having much time to spare, we used up a lot of time, and the person in charge of the graphics worked hard to depict it.
Then we should pay attention to the bubble scenes when playing Sky as well! By the way, what is the relationship between the worlds of Red/Blue and Time/Darkness?
Kawamura: That’s a secret. They might be connected, and they might not be connected. Perhaps it is a different era, or a different world. We’ll leave it at that (laughs).
It’s very interesting how unique Pokémon can be when it comes to personalities and the way they speak. Who is it that decides on such things? (Translator's note: "-desuwa" is a sentence-ending participle used primarily by characters who are supposed to be feminine and elegant.)
Tomie: It’s generally me. After deciding on the roles of the Pokémon, I make them talk in the way that I feel is right. However, there are times when it is the other way around. Where the speech patterns are already decided, and the role is considered later. This was the case for Sunflora in Time/Darkness, where Kawamura-san chose Sunflora for the role of the Pokémon who speaks with "-desuwa."
Kawamura: When it is a character that Tomie-san is very particular with, he is able to go on ahead with the specific scenario, but when that is not the case, there is just dialogue for Pokémon A and B, and then we choose a fitting Pokémon later.
Tomie: When I’m still at the point where the scenario is not fleshed out yet, for instance, like with the guild apprentices, the writing just mentions them as a large group. But by assigning roles for parts that I had just written in the spur of the moment, the story often starts to expand in various ways.
Was Bidoof’s tendency to say "-degesu" decided beforehand? (Translator's note: "-degesu" is an old-fashioned sentence-ending participle often used for comical purposes.)
Tomie: Bidoof came first. For some reason, Kawamura-san was a big fan of Bidoof, and would say, "please put Bidoof in it, please put Bidoof in it." And so I thought, "well, I better put Bidoof in it." I don’t know why, but he ended up saying "-degesu" (laughs).
Next, I would like to talk about characters who are especially popular in the Pokémon Mystery Dungeon series. Let’s start with Gengar from Red/Blue!
Kawamura: How nostalgic (laughs).
Tomie: From the beginning, I had been thinking of making Gengar a villain, and wrote up to the story’s ending that way. But then Kawamura-san said, "there should be a little hope for Gengar too." I thought it would be enough to just have Gengar pull out and save the protagonist from the underworld, but the others felt that Gengar was still a villain. And so that was why I started writing the story about Gengar and Gardevoir that happens after the ending. I felt that if I am going to write a conclusion for that story, then I also had to conclude the Ninetales legend as well. And so I faced it head-on while writing.
Kawamura: What we wanted to say was that "there are no bad Pokémon." Though, there are some who behave badly for a reason. I wanted to leave a reason or an anecdote that showed that Gengar was not a villain until the end. At first, it was really meant as a little bonus, so I didn’t expect as big of a reaction from players. Tomie-san’s scenario was also quite wonderful, and it was pretty much given the OK in one shot. To anyone who has not played it yet, please give it a try (laughs).
With Time/Darkness, we must start with Wigglytuff.
Tomie: Wigglytuff. This is going to be a little long (laughs). In Red/Blue, Wigglytuff was selling "Friend Areas," and while this might sound like a bad way of putting it, it was basically land flipping. At the time, my impression was just of a "single Pokémon who had a store," but I saw some fan opinions on the internet, and came to the realization that this character was more complicated than I thought. People were saying, "Wigglytuff says "friend, friend" a lot, but he doesn’t even have any friends."
Tomie: I thought, "this character is actually quite deep." And so I started to think of using him as a sub-character in Time/Darkness. It was around that time that Kawamura-san said that she wanted something like a guild in Time/Darkness. We thought, if there is a guild, the protagonist and partner should live like apprentices. In that case, we’ll need a Guildmaster. Wigglytuff is the only one for that job! We decided it like that.
Guildmaster = Wigglytuff! It kind of seems straightforward, but maybe not…
Tomie: He is a genius. And as a genius, there are some things that only he knows, which dictates his actions. But it looks strange to those around him. But if you look at the big picture, it all comes together. He is that kind of character. And so I felt strongly about having Wigglytuff create a guild, so we could have the protagonist live there.
As it will spoil what happens after the ending, I cannot give too many details, but I really liked the part with the Grand Master of All Things Bad.
Kawamura: In that case, you’ll like Sky even more! Even from the music, it will hit you like Acupressure (laughs).
We cannot talk about Time/Darkness without bringing up Grovyle and Celebi. In the first place, why did you choose Grovyle for the criminal role?
Tomie: During the plot writing stage, it was actually Lucario who had the criminal role. And it was like that for quite a while. But one day, Kawamura-san said, "Lucario has a strong reputation for being a Pokémon of justice, and does not seem like a criminal." And so I started to think of which Pokémon I could use instead. Kawamura-san then selected a few candidates. And it was Grovyle who stood out more than the others. However, Grovyle is an evolved form of Treecko, which meant it could feel too similar to the protagonist and partner. We struggled over using it, but in the end, I think we made the right decision.
Why did you make Celebi a different color?
Tomie: In terms of the story’s setting, it was necessary for Celebi to be there. But when it came to having Celebi appear in the future world, Kawamura-san said, "there is a pink variant of Celebi, so let’s make her pink!" At that moment, my idea of Celebi changed into what is in the game.
Kawamura: The regular Celebi is green, and so if she is with Grovyle, it would be green and green. Also, I wanted her to seem special, as she has the role of the time traveler. A Celebi that is not normal, with a different color. And I chose pink to give off the impression of a girl.
In the official setting, Celebi does not have a gender.
Kawamura: When it comes to Pokémon Mystery Dungeon, due to circumstances with development, there was a need to decide on "girl talk" and "boy talk" in advance. And so we set temporary genders. I am sure you know about the Pokémon movie with Celebi ("Pokémon 4Ever", released in 2001), where Celebi had a mischievous and boyish personality. We wanted to be separate from that. It is just my fancy, but there is a proper reason for it (laughs).
I really like Celebi’s somewhat painful feelings towards Grovyle. While adventuring with Celebi in the future world, she says something quite different from the usual when you talk to her. And it is so…
Kawamura: You’ve played quite extensively (laughs).
Tomie: Those kinds of interactions between Grovyle and Celebi came out quite naturally as I was writing. I showed the other staff what I had written, and they said, "Celebi is tsundere, huh?" But I just thought, "oh, really?"
Kawamura: You didn’t write it like that deliberately.
Tomie: If anything, I was holding back there a little.
It was more extreme in the beginning!?
Tomie: I wouldn't call it extreme, but it was a little more straightforward.
Kawamura: The future world is so dark and brutal, so I think that Tomie-san wanted to include that as a single bright storyline. Of course, if it depicted something too close to romantic emotion, then we would have to add a lot to the setting later… and so we kept it at a point where the players could just finish the story within their heads.
Tomie: Indeed. Though, I ended up having to write a Special Episode afterwards anyway.
In other words, Celebi will appear in a Special Episode!
Kawamura: Please look forward to it (laughs).
Also, in Pokémon Mystery Dungeon, the small characters really move with a lot of detail. It is very fun to watch, and I feel the intention behind it.
Tomie: The biggest thing is the love and passion of the person in charge! Also, whether they can make it while understanding how to stylize the character properly. Having a Pokémon jump up and say, "I’ll do my best!" and make it really look like it’s doing its best, that is the power of stylizing. Also, there is timing and pacing. A lot of small details. For instance, there is a scene in Treasure Town where Grovyle is being pulled away by Dusknoir. The others are all following Grovyle with their eyes, but the timing was purposely shifted for each. It’s these kinds of details and efforts that give them a soul and breathes life into the creatures. This is not me, but the work of Tanaka-san, who is really particular when creating.
Kawamura: A real character theater master (laughs).
Also, the Pokémon have to walk within the game. Is there someone who decides, for instance, which Pokémon walked on all fours or hops around? It was with this game that I first learned that Treecko walks on all fours.
Kawamura: There are times when we receive ideas from Chunsoft that are reviewed, and there are times when it has already been established, and we send them instructions on how to make it. Also, whether or not the results feel like a living creature, or if it is fitting for a friend who will always be walking with you. In the end, it is about love. Love!
Please leave a message for readers of Nintendo DREAM.
Kawamura: As the cover art suggests, it is an expansive, refreshing, enjoyable game that is also of great value. Additionally, this one includes something that will make you want to keep it in your bag, so please pay attention to that.
It’s the Sky Jukebox, right?
Ishigami: Compared to Time/Darkness, I think that this game has about 1.5 times more content. Not just in volume, but there are lots of new elements such as Spinda's Café, so you should be able to play it for a long time. Please give it a try.
Tomie: We really put our souls into making this game. So please, everyone. It would make me so happy if you would play it!
Nagahata: Combined with Time/Darkness, a lot of new elements have been added to Sky. My personal impression is that it has double the amount of content. It really is a good deal, and so I would very much like for people who have already played Time/Darkness, as well as people who have never experienced the series before, to play it.
Final question. What is your favorite Pokémon from Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky?
Kawamura: My favorite Pokémon is… all of them! However, if I had to choose just one, then it would be Lapras.
Tomie: During Time/Darkness, I kept saying that it was Palkia. I love the arrogant personality and sense that it is going wild. While writing the story, I wondered if such a violent Pokémon should really be a god (laughs). But it would be boring to say Palkia once again, so it’s going to be Sableye for "Sky."
Nagahata: I’ve been saying this for a long time now, but Bulbasaur really is my favorite. The reason is incredibly simple. Its Pokédex number is 001.
Ishigami: It’s Munchlax for me. Not only because it is cute, but I kind of like that from the beginning, it can do all kinds of moves at random with Metronome.
