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I was allowed full access to any books, movies, and internet I wanted fully informed about our family beliefs and practices but I was given no supervision once I reached about 13 because my parents trusted me to stick to the rules or not as I felt and come to them if there was anything that I had questions about.

As long as I said where I was going, who I was with, and when I was going to be back and then phone if anything changed I was allowed to do pretty much as I pleased from 13 onward.

I moved back in with my parents after university and the first conversation we had was my dad telling me that if I felt like they were treating me like a child to please tell them because they had no intention of doing so.

password protected my computer so i had to get permission every time i wanted to use it

put a passcode lock on our pantry so we couldn’t eat without permission

regularly checked our internet browsing history

shut off the internet at regular intervals, including when i needed it for university homework

did monthly checks of our bank statements and would confiscate money if they didn’t approve of our activities

in response, i went behind their backs and opened a new bank account, got a secret job, bought my own groceries, and used the wifi from the school across the street. they didn’t succeed in disciplining me. all they did was force me to distance myself from them.

youre implying that i haven’t discoursed in good faith with terfs before, I have tried and it is not productive. in my experience most of the ppl in your community go out of their way to be assholes uncritical of their own misconceptions about sex & gender, and their own bigoted & harmful ableist, transphobic, homophobic, hypocritical, etc behaviors, or tend to be so insanely obtuse abt these things that it’s not worth the trouble of discussion. Also, whenever I fucking interact with even one of them an unseen Trojan horse wheels over & eighty different idiots almost invariably lead by that opabinia person get out and start annoying me for the rest of the day. Their behavior is virtually no different from the tradnat reactionaries & anti-feminist altrightists or whatever also populating this site and baiting & harassing people as well with the “discourse with me u cowards!!” bullshit.

Why do you need to be kept “safe” from the genital preference discourse? You aren’t the one being coerced into sex out of guilt or told to change your physical sexual orientation for someone’s personal feelings. Cryptos exist for their own safety, because “terf” is cried out at the drop of a hat, and posts like these are made. I’m sorry you get harassed, and I believe you when you say that you are and I don’t condone it. But we are getting harassed too. You believe we deserve it because we disagree with you.

Who is and isn’t comfortable with those terminologies in the gender identity community doesn’t erase the fact that it’s offensive to many lesbians. “Afab nonbinaries” aren’t excluded from the criticism I’m referring to. You must have no knowledge of sexism if you don’t see “non men dating non men” as extremely sexist? Ever wonder why “non man” is ok, but “woman” causes such distress? Women do not all appreciate being labelled “non men” ....think about why that is. I know you’ve heard of sexism. (I’d have just as much of a problem with calling gay men “non women dating non women”)

I’m not rising to your calling me a creep, especially when you’re the one referencing a software made by an accused pedophile, who thinks he’s Light fucking Yagami. This software exposes IP addresses and puts people at risk of censorship and doxxing. It’s difficult to even research it without the threat of viruses. You didn’t use it, but why would you tag it?

It’s a different opinion because nobody can even define “woman” anymore without exposing their superficiality, the term “transgender” has no concrete meaning that anyone can identify or agree with. You argue amongst yourselves, sometimes we agree with some of the opinions shared!

I scrolled through her blog awhile but found no evidence of anon hate. I could have messaged her with my grievances, but since I’ve not had very good experiences interacting with terfs (and like, Im pretty sure she was aware she was violating DNI’s bc there’s no way she couldn’t have noticed them- I assumed she merely didn’t care), I decided it was best to make a post. I don’t know if I actually put a target on her head or not because, again, I couldn’t find proof of hate towards her when I looked, and you’ve yet to provide evidence of that happening. So I have no reason to believe anybody took my post and decided to do anymore with it than block her.

of course you ‘don’t have to interact with anyone you don’t wish to’, the issue is that she was interacting with people who didn’t wish her to by following them, and made explicit on their blogs that they didn’t want people like her interacting! that’s what we call ignoring boundaries! and she seemingly made a habit of this too. “terf”, ime, is not a term used arbitrarily- and if it seems to you like way too many people are accused of being terfs that’s probably because too many people are. if terfs are facing difficulties with harassment, perhaps - perhaps - it could have something to do with the fact they’re so obsessed with proselytizing that they relentlessly insert themselves into posts and discourse where they are unwanted, and instead of blocking / avoiding the types of people harassing them they.. continue to try obsessively interacting with those communities? do you deny that they very frequently and happily interact with those that don’t want them around, and even state as much, and then complain when they receive negative attention?

youre implying that i haven’t discoursed in good faith with terfs before, I have tried and it is not productive. in my experience most of the ppl in your community go out of their way to be assholes uncritical of their own misconceptions about sex & gender, and their own bigoted & harmful ableist, transphobic, homophobic, hypocritical, etc behaviors, or tend to be so insanely obtuse abt these things that it’s not worth the trouble of discussion. Also, whenever I fucking interact with even one of them an unseen Trojan horse wheels over & eighty different idiots almost invariably lead by that opabinia person get out and start annoying me for the rest of the day. Their behavior is virtually no different from the tradnat reactionaries & anti-feminist altrightists or whatever also populating this site and baiting & harassing people as well with the “discourse with me u cowards!!” bullshit.

claiming we should identify as bi because we “fit” a definition is a fundamental misunderstanding of how identity labels work. labels are not determined and defined for us. we choose our own labels and we define our own labels. we use labels to express ourselves, which others don’t get a say in; start conversations with, based on our experiences; build communities with, with others like us. they are ever-growing and everchanging.

people who explain their attraction in the same way could use different labels, and vice versa. gay men have always had different terms based on parts of their identity that they felt were important enough to need its own term. there was never a time when bi was an automatic, mandatory label for being mspec.

because identity labels are personal and self-identification is more important than shoving everyone into boxes based on definitions other people determined.

something that’s worth remembering is the bisexual community has been accepting and welcoming other mspec labels for decades:

Bi Any Other Name: Bisexual Speak Out: “Pansexual people have been actively involved in the bisexual community since the 1970s.”

Bi Women Quarterly, 1984: “Some felt that labels were restrictive, that they lived a bisexual lifestyle but did not refer to themselves as bisexuals.”

Bisexuality: a reader and sourcebook by Thomas Geller, 1990: “Personally, I believe first and foremost in the right to claim one’s own identity and be recognized in terms of that identity: the right of each creature to name itself.”

Bisexual Manifesto, Anything That Moves #1, 1991: “Many of us choose not to label ourselves anything at all, and find the word ‘bisexual’ to be inadequate and too limiting.”

Closer to Home: Bisexuality & Feminism, 1992: “Rather than try to define each other out of existence, we need to accept that we aren’t all the same.”

Closer To Home by Elizabeth Reba Weise, Anything That Moves #4, 1992: “As Margaret Mihee Chloe points out in her essay, ‘identity is that which makes one recognizable to self and other.’ The plurality of names, and the combinations used, are all attempts in our clumsy and woman-wordless language, to create this identity, to make ourselves recognizable.”

A Bisexual Feminist Perspective by Liz Highleyman, 1993: “When I think of queer anarchism, I think of breaking down the strict boundaries constructed between the categories of sexuality. So, I guess I think of bisexuality, omnisexuality, pansexuality as being more ‘anarchist’ that strict homosexuality or heterosexuality.”

Bisexual Politics: Theories, Queries, and Visions by Naomi S. Tucker, 1995: “how we make sense of the world and live our lives as bisexual, pansexual, omnisexual, multisexual, ‘just sexual,’ androgynous, genderfucked, bi-gendered, non-gendered, gender-indifferent, or ‘don’t label me’ human beings seeking to create communities with those with whom we find common cause, even (or maybe especially!) if our labels don’t happen to coincide.”

Anything That Moves #11, 1996: “Call For Submissions: ATM is particularly interested in work by bi/pan/or-similar-sexuals.”

Labelous Statements by Anne Killpack, Anything That Moves #19, 1999: “Whether you call yourself bisexual, polysexual, multisexual, pansexual, me-sexual or refuse to be labeled altogether, if you are like me and find people attractive regardless of their sex or gender, then we need you.”

Getting Bi: Voices of Bisexuals Around the World edited by Robyn Ochs, 2005: “Some identify as queer, pansexual, or omnisexual. Some deliberately use labels strategically, identifying differently in different social contexts. And some eschew labels altogether. We considered subtitling this book Voices of Bisexuals and Other Folks Along the Sexuality Spectrum, recognizing that the word bisexual cannot possibly encompass all whose identities challenge the binaries of gay and straight.”

Not Bisexual Enough? by Tracy, Bi Women Quarterly, 2009: “The following people, while one could technically label them as ‘bisexual,’ have vastly diverse experiences that need to be acknowledged: ‘lesbians’ who have sex with men, ‘straight women’ who are turned on by girl-on-girl porn, people who are mostly attracted to the same sex, people who are mostly attracted to the opposite sex, those who are attracted to people ‘regardless of gender,’ and so many more. Clearly, there is a demand for many more labels.“

“What’s in a Name: Call Me Bisexual or Call Me..” by Ellyn Ruthstrom, Bi Women Quarterly, 2009: “Whether we call ourselves bisexual or queer or omnisexual or any other word, we hope to keep our community strong and vibrant for many years to come. I was very cheered by the discussion in the workshop and the way that people expressed feeling a connection to each other, despite the different terms.”

and lastly, a quote from The Bisexual Index: “We don’t think everyone who is sexually attracted to more than one gender needs to identify as bisexual. Why think outside the gay/straight box only to insist there has to be a limit on how many more boxes there is?”

claiming we should identify as bi because we “fit” a definition is a fundamental misunderstanding of how identity labels work. labels are not determined and defined for us. we choose our own labels and we define our own labels. we use labels to express ourselves, which others don’t get a say in; start conversations with, based on our experiences; build communities with, with others like us. they are ever-growing and everchanging.

people who explain their attraction in the same way could use different labels, and vice versa. gay men have always had different terms based on parts of their identity that they felt were important enough to need its own term. there was never a time when bi was an automatic, mandatory label for being mspec.

because identity labels are personal and self-identification is more important than shoving everyone into boxes based on definitions other people determined.

something that’s worth remembering is the bisexual community has been accepting and welcoming other mspec labels for decades:

Bi Any Other Name: Bisexual Speak Out: “Pansexual people have been actively involved in the bisexual community since the 1970s.”

Bi Women Quarterly, 1984: “Some felt that labels were restrictive, that they lived a bisexual lifestyle but did not refer to themselves as bisexuals.”

Bisexuality: a reader and sourcebook by Thomas Geller, 1990: “Personally, I believe first and foremost in the right to claim one’s own identity and be recognized in terms of that identity: the right of each creature to name itself.”

Bisexual Manifesto, Anything That Moves #1, 1991: “Many of us choose not to label ourselves anything at all, and find the word ‘bisexual’ to be inadequate and too limiting.”

Closer to Home: Bisexuality & Feminism, 1992: “Rather than try to define each other out of existence, we need to accept that we aren’t all the same.”

Closer To Home by Elizabeth Reba Weise, Anything That Moves #4, 1992: “As Margaret Mihee Chloe points out in her essay, ‘identity is that which makes one recognizable to self and other.’ The plurality of names, and the combinations used, are all attempts in our clumsy and woman-wordless language, to create this identity, to make ourselves recognizable.”

A Bisexual Feminist Perspective by Liz Highleyman, 1993: “When I think of queer anarchism, I think of breaking down the strict boundaries constructed between the categories of sexuality. So, I guess I think of bisexuality, omnisexuality, pansexuality as being more ‘anarchist’ that strict homosexuality or heterosexuality.”

Bisexual Politics: Theories, Queries, and Visions by Naomi S. Tucker, 1995: “how we make sense of the world and live our lives as bisexual, pansexual, omnisexual, multisexual, ‘just sexual,’ androgynous, genderfucked, bi-gendered, non-gendered, gender-indifferent, or ‘don’t label me’ human beings seeking to create communities with those with whom we find common cause, even (or maybe especially!) if our labels don’t happen to coincide.”

Anything That Moves #11, 1996: “Call For Submissions: ATM is particularly interested in work by bi/pan/or-similar-sexuals.”

Labelous Statements by Anne Killpack, Anything That Moves #19, 1999: “Whether you call yourself bisexual, polysexual, multisexual, pansexual, me-sexual or refuse to be labeled altogether, if you are like me and find people attractive regardless of their sex or gender, then we need you.”

Getting Bi: Voices of Bisexuals Around the World edited by Robyn Ochs, 2005: “Some identify as queer, pansexual, or omnisexual. Some deliberately use labels strategically, identifying differently in different social contexts. And some eschew labels altogether. We considered subtitling this book Voices of Bisexuals and Other Folks Along the Sexuality Spectrum, recognizing that the word bisexual cannot possibly encompass all whose identities challenge the binaries of gay and straight.”

Not Bisexual Enough? by Tracy, Bi Women Quarterly, 2009: “The following people, while one could technically label them as ‘bisexual,’ have vastly diverse experiences that need to be acknowledged: ‘lesbians’ who have sex with men, ‘straight women’ who are turned on by girl-on-girl porn, people who are mostly attracted to the same sex, people who are mostly attracted to the opposite sex, those who are attracted to people ‘regardless of gender,’ and so many more. Clearly, there is a demand for many more labels.“

“What’s in a Name: Call Me Bisexual or Call Me..” by Ellyn Ruthstrom, Bi Women Quarterly, 2009: “Whether we call ourselves bisexual or queer or omnisexual or any other word, we hope to keep our community strong and vibrant for many years to come. I was very cheered by the discussion in the workshop and the way that people expressed feeling a connection to each other, despite the different terms.”

and lastly, a quote from The Bisexual Index: “We don’t think everyone who is sexually attracted to more than one gender needs to identify as bisexual. Why think outside the gay/straight box only to insist there has to be a limit on how many more boxes there is?”

However, I do have a small problem. You see, I’ve been identifying as panromantic, and recently discovered “battle axe bi.” All this time I had NO idea there was so much discourse between pansexuals and bisexuals. I thought they were just two sexualities that overlapped but still had their differences, even if they are both attracted to all genders. That’s what I learned.

I’ve decided to ignore everything, until I’ve had a few encounters in real life, whether virtual or in person. And tbh, I got a biiiit traumatized. To be fair, I was an emotional kid at the time, so I was easily affected. But, the problem is, I couldn’t stop researching and trying to find hope that pans are accepted. Then in 2020 I came across this article:

https://medium.com/an-injustice/the-history-and-troubling-present-of-the-pansexual-label-9e535e15277

And that article made me feel worse. And so now I’m asking, how can we improve, while still making it clear that bisexuals are valid, and what should we do about those who showed the bad parts of our history to everyone? I don’t know if I can ignore it. More and more people are believing that pans are harmful. How can we prove that the majority of us aren’t intending any harm, whether it be towards the bisexual label or any sexuality?

Anyways, this is getting long. Thanks for reading! And again, love your blog!

hi! i’m glad you like the blog! there’s quite a bit to address here, so i’m gonna break it into parts.

1) you said “even if they are both attracted to all genders” and i would like to point out that while bi can mean all, not all bi people are attracted to all genders.

2) that medium article is biased garbage created by a panphobe with too much time on their hands. pretending it doesn’t exist is best.

3) the best way to deal with panphobes is to not engage with them directly, but instead share actual correct information and pan history as much as you can. at least, that’s my opinion. i’ve tried engaging directly with them and they either just keep repeating their lies/misinformation to me no matter what i say or they block me. so i think it’s pointless. but i never let a panphobia go unchecked. i just do it differently. i either screenshot or quote it and break down why it’s wrong in my own post, or i just spread actual information/history that refutes it even louder.

4) i have a resources page (https://posi-pan.tumblr.com/resources) that lists links to my tag of all the sourced posts i’ve made about pan history, the timeline of pan’s history i made to show that it isn’t what panphobes make it out to be, and the timeline i put together of the history of the bi community including/supporting pan. among other things. if you’re feeling bad about pan due to panphobes painting a horrible picture of the identity, us, and our history, please check those out. and if you’re looking for something to do about panphobia, you could share those (i promise this isn’t me just wanting people to share things i made. if i had extensive pan history stuff from others, i’d be sharing those too).

women can fetishize mlm relationships. 

yes, that does include lbt women

calling u out on fetishizing gay men isnt misogyny

so that also mean fetishizing gay men isnt okay just because u r a woman

ur sexuality (lesbian, bisexual or anything else) isnt a excuse

it doesnt matter u r in lgbt community, u can still fetishize gay men

we arent ur sick fantasy u can get off to 

especially if it does include abuse, incest or rape

yaoi is homophobic

derailing posts made by mlm that goes like ‘wow, boys r cute’ w ur pathetic ‘date girls instead!!’ is homophobic and simply put - rude. youre just basically telling us to date girls

throwing ur ships everywhere u can is disgusting. nobody needs ur pairing names everytime two guys look at each other

shipping irl people is disgusting

stop treating irl ppl like fictional characters

women can fetishize mlm relationships. 

yes, that does include lbt women

calling u out on fetishizing gay men isnt misogyny

so that also mean fetishizing gay men isnt okay just because u r a woman

ur sexuality (lesbian, bisexual or anything else) isnt a excuse

it doesnt matter u r in lgbt community, u can still fetishize gay men

we arent ur sick fantasy u can get off to 

especially if it does include abuse, incest or rape

yaoi is homophobic

derailing posts made by mlm that goes like ‘wow, boys r cute’ w ur pathetic ‘date girls instead!!’ is homophobic and simply put - rude. youre just basically telling us to date girls

throwing ur ships everywhere u can is disgusting. nobody needs ur pairing names everytime two guys look at each other

shipping irl people is disgusting

stop treating irl ppl like fictional characters

 women can be attracted to mlm relationships

 yes, that does include lbt women

 calling you out on experiencing attraction for gay men is not strictly misogyny, but it is a generally fucked up thing to do, and usually has some sexist undertones concerning the disregard of female sexual exploration

 so yeah being attracted to gay men is okay, even if you’re a woman 

 your sexuality is entirely flexible

 many people in the lgbt community are already familiar with their entirely flexible sexualities, and know that being attracted to men who like men is a perfectly normal thing to be feeling

 sexual fantasies are also perfectly normal

 sexual fantasies that include abuse, incest, or rape are normal too

 yes we are cute, no we’re not gonna date you 

 shipping is great, and encourages creators to write in more gay content

 shipping people irl is weird in some contexts, perfectly normal in others

(Like don’t ship your friends together… but actors and YouTubers, go for it!)

 words like ‘sinful’ and ‘wrong’ make gay men feel bad about themselves, but we understand that you’ve seen these words applied to heterosexual relationships without any repercussions, and understand why you wouldn’t make this distinction. so be careful and think about the language you use

(Note: I’m not here to try and convince anyone that mlm fetishizing doesn’t happen, it does and it’s a problem. I’m just trying to point out that most of the time people feeling attracted to mlm is not fetishization, but a completely normal thing to do. 

being attracted to mlm is NOT a sexuality and does NOT make you lgbt. if that isnt what you meant by bullet points number 4, 5, and 6.. idk what to tell you idk how else to interpret it fix that. if u meant that ur attracted to a man and they happen to be gay so ur bummed, thats “im attracted to men, but this man who im attracted to isnt attracted to me.” THIS DOES NOT MAKE IT OKAY FOR YOU TO FETISHIZE HIM.

shipping doesnt encourage ppl to write more good, safe, healthy mlm content. it encourages them to write shitty fan service and fetishizing content.

I would argue that wlm finding men being sexual with each other attractive isn’t like.. a surprising thing, you know. I guess it’s intuitive that if you’re attracted to certain kinds of bodies, it follows that seeing those people you’re attracted to sexually interacting with other people you’re also attracted would be.. appealing to you. I don’t think that impulse alone is fetishistic or homophobic, although if a person were to project these interests onto real unconsenting persons then that’s another matter entirely, like you said, invasive and ‘creepy’ and crossing boundaries and all that.

-you are severely underestimating the structural violence fat people deal with

-you are acting like there is one universal experience of being trans in america, and that all of those are closer to each other than the one i described, which is just weird essentialist thinking that will run you into terfhood real quick if you followed it out

-you will never truly go through ANYTHING anyone experiences. even if you experience something basically exactly the same as someone else, the fact of you being two different people with two different selfhoods means you’ll never go through what they’ve been through. there is absolutely never 1-for-1 comparisons. you’re arguing against the idea of understanding anyone ever

“sex as a right has been used to justify rape” lots of things are used to justify rape, rape is still not okay and also not the fucking argument being made here, you absolute fucking morons.