Smug and Problematic children

Oh to be called a sweet tarnished by malenia

So here I want to discuss what was lost in translation of Marika’s echoes. English is not my native language and my grammar is quite terrible, but I hope result will be comprehensible enough to understand.

Let’s start with the echoes from the Church of Pilgrimage and Third Church of Marika. They are extremely important to the narrative as they are explaining the origin of Tarnished, a reason behind Godfrey’s banishment, how the grace works and Marika’s goals. Sadly, they are often overlooked and English translation did them no favor.

My Lord, and thy warriors. I divest each of thee of thy grace. With thine eyes dimmed, ye will be driven from the Lands Between. Ye will wage war in a land afar, where ye will live, and die. Well? Perhaps that might serve you in lieu of a maiden’s guidance.

Then, after thy death, I will give back what I once claimed. Return to the Lands Between, wage war, and brandish the Elden Ring. Grow strong in the face of death. Warriors of my lord. Lord Godfrey.

Marika referers to Godfrey as お前 “omae” ( 我が王よ、王の戦士たちよ。お前たちから、祝福を奪う), a derogatory form of “you” in Japanese, this pronoun is widely considered rude and usually used for inferiors or enemies (”omae wa mou shindeiru” meme). In some cases it’s used by teenagers or family members (by the head of the household), but Marika calls Godfrey “omae” in a public speech in front of his warriors. She clearly puts a distance between herself, an eternal god, and disposable Elden Lord, who soon will be replaced by a younger male (why do you think Godfrey’s signature animal is a lion?).

Both Radagon and Godfrey are “omae”. She doesn’t value one over another, she uses for Godfrey the same prounonce as she uses for Radagon when she calls him a dog instead of leal hound in JP. In the end they are nothing more than her tools and treated as such.

like you can argue malenia is a biased party, and certainly she is, but to some degree even the narrative agrees with this between the oracle envoys being present at the haligtree and the capability of his unalloyed gold and how it outright states he knows how to manipulate people. even gideon is, on some level, intimidated just by the idea of miquella being a present figure in the lands between, arguing it may be safer to kill him to prevent him from waking, implying on some level that miquella has the power and knowledge to be a problem to the mission of the tarnished in a way the other demigods would not.

the game itself seems to present the idea that miquella is so capable that he simply… is unaffected by whatever mohg has done to him. that even in what may be his own death, he could simply awake unharmed, perhaps even unaware that anything had happened at all.

Let’s start with the obligatory - they are alive. Two Fingers of every other demigod are long dead, Two Fingers at the Roundtable Hold are broken and every other character questions them and how trustworthy they are, but Ranni goes on the special quest to kill hers.

And as I kept looking, I found more and more odd things about them.

Appearances: hairless, smooth, a few times bigger than regular Two Fingers , no dip on the palm, different color. They don’t look like the same creatures at all.

Champions would gather at the Roundtable Hold in days long past, when the Two Fingers were masters of oration, their flesh yet full of vigor ( Coded Sword)

Two Fingers at the Roundtable are old, they are dry and crispy, same goes for Two Fingers at Divine Towers, but Ranni’s Fingers are bleeding.

(Ranni’s Two Fingers are showing more similarities with Fingercreepers, the color and the texture are almost the same, but still not identical.)

My first attempt to sort out different gods and godike beings of Elden Ring. I used Japanese txt archive as English translation sometimes is questionable at best or misses some very important nuances.

外なる神 - outer god 

古き神 - ancient god (never used in English)

神 - god, vessel for an outer god, an ancient god or the Elden Ring 

神人 - Empyrean (literally “god-person”)

デミゴッド - demigod (written in katakana, doesn’t use the kanji for god)

Known outer gods: Formless Mother (Mohgwyn’s Sacred Spear), unknown god of Twinbirds (The twinbird is said to be the envoys of the outer god in the description of Kite Shield), outer god of Rot (Scorpion’s Stinger)

Known ancient gods: Flame of Frenzy (Fingerprint Stone Shield), ancient god of Rot (Blue Dancer Charm), Fell God (Fire Monk set)

Nowhere in either script is the Greater Will identified as an outer god, same with Ranni’s Dark Moon, Rennala’s Full Moon or Nox’s Black Moon

Known gods: Vessels of the Elden Ring - Marika, Placidusax‘s Sovereign, Malenia as Goddess of Rot  腐敗の女神, Radagon at the end of the game

Marika is the god of current age, age of the Erdtree, and she is the vessel of the Elden Ring

The Golden Order is founded on the principle that Marika is the one true god © brother Corhyn

黄金律は、女王マリカを唯一の神とする律です。それなのに…

Placidusax‘s Sovereign

The Dragonlord whose seat lies at the heart of the storm beyond time is said to have been Elden Lord in the age before the Erdtree. Once his god was fled, the lord continued to await its return

時の狭間、嵐の中心に座す竜王は 黄金樹の前史、エルデの王であったという だが神は去り、王は帰還を待ち続けていた  

Yes, Placidusax‘s god wasn’t an outer god 外なる神 or an ancient god 古き神, it was a host of the Elden Ring, the same kind of god 神 as Marika. Most likely it ruled during the age of Crucible.

It seems like all kind of deities need an avatar (Empyrean/god) to manifest their power in the Lands Between.

Known Empyreans: Ranni, Miquella, Malenia, Marika/Radagon, Gloam-Eyed Queen; questionable - Placidusax’s Sovereign must be an Empyrean to become a vessel later, which opens an interesting possibility that not only humans can be chosen as Empyreans

Ranni, Miquella and Malenia belong to the new generation of Empyreans:

Worth noting that Ranni uses phrase “coming age”, considering that Placi’s god was replaced by Marika, it’s very possible that Marika’s age was coming to an end as well, but that’s a topic for a different post.

Marika’s and Radagon’s scarseals have the same description: these seals represent the lifelong duty of those chosen by the gods

Description of Black Flame Ritual: the Gloam-Eyed Queen led the apostles. It is said that she was an Empyrean chosen by the Fingers (questionable: Two or Three?)

(Interesting that all current Empyreans are fathered by Radagon, but nothing suggests that Marika and GEQ were relatives)

Questionable: everything about Fell God

それは、女王マリカが討ち取ったとされる かつて巨人たちが祀った悪神である

Once worshipped by the giants, this evil deity is believed to have been slain by Queen Marika ( One-Eyed Shield)

This description contradicts with the description of Glame of the Fell God

Arghanthy, the chief guardian of the Flame, had kept this incantation a well-kept secret until it was stolen by Adan. The fell god still lurks within the Fire Giants

それは、アダンが盗み出した 監視者の長、アーガンティの秘匿である 悪神は、火の巨人の内に、今も隠れている

it is said that Fell God was slain by Marika, but somehow is still alive. Both descriptions are using Fell God  悪神, but Firemonks Armor uses 火の巨人 Fire Giants, while One-Eyed Shield only mentions Giants  巨人.

Possible solution: the legend about Marika is a lie, Marika defeated a vessel of the Fell God, but not the Feel God himself, Elden Ring lore is a mess

Questionable: Serpent deity is written 蛇神, but the Rykard’s Great Serpent is  大蛇. 

Interesting fact: Radahn is called the War God 戦神 in Japanese, but it’s used as a monicker, people simply respect his strength.

Questionable: maybe “ancient god” is just a different way to call outer gods, or it’s a hint that outer gods weren’t always “outer” to the Lands Between

Common misconception №1: the Greater Will is antagonistic to the outer gods

Malenia’s Great Rune is part of the Elden Ring, Order of Rot 腐敗の律 is still an Order 律. The concept of Order 律. is the key point of the Greater Will. The Greater Will is antagonistic to the Flame of Frenzy, which represents Chaos.

Common misconception №2: Ranni’s ending Age of the Stars bans the outer gods or the Greater Will

Description of Memory Stone:

Said to be a fragment of the black moon that once hung above the Eternal City

Description of Moon of Nokstella:

This talisman represents the lost black moon. The moon of Nokstella was the guide of countless stars

Guess what happened with the Nox, despite worship of the black moon and stars

Long ago, the Nox invoked the ire of the Greater Will, and were banished to the shadow realm deep underground

That’s not counting a giant Lake of Rot in Nox ruins. Guys were double-teamed by both Greater Will and outer gods.

Now cometh the age of the stars. A thousand year voyage under the wisdom of the Moon

Ranni minimizes the influence of the Order for 1000 years, she doesn’t remove it entirely and forever like the Flame of Frenzy, nor she does anything with the outer gods (it’s Miquella’s goal to banish them), she simply brings Order of the Chill Night 冷たい夜の律 until the next coming age.

Conclusion: no god rules forever.

This is a win for this raft of a ship I’m sitting on! A win, I say! Mohg/Morgott rights!

as far as i know, miquella is not a child? hes basically got dwarfism? ‘never grew’ isnt the same as ‘is a child’. hes twins with Malenia, they are the same age. at this point youre just mad about a size difference, and considering the player character only comes up to Mohgs waist shipping him with yourseld has the same issue

also when he put himself in the tree he DID grow– his arm is as long as Mohgs whole body, so hes presumably twice or even three times as large as mohg. so if he really was ‘a child’ its like being mad that mohg is being shipped with someone who was ONCE a child

Morgot is liek an oldman demon and mohg is like an animalistic demon– i dont think that human social rules like incest super apply to them? they probably cant have kids and they arent going to get married in a christian church and mohg is insane and possesed by like a blood demon and they are killers and lunatics. i feel like ‘but brothers’ is probably the least objectionable thing about their relationship. im not a fan of twin pairings in media where its clearly centered on earth, but like.. these are big nasty demons in a hellworld. Dung Eater is real here– there are more important things to worry about if you actually live there.

“Yay! Rape and incest is so cute! So wholesome! I love them! I have had exactly 2 original thoughts in my entire life!” so you think enjoying this is a common thing? most people like it? youre the unusual one? I dont agree with you, i think its pretty rare to enjoy it and only seems common when you follow people who are part of a circle passing it around. i see people all the time saying they hate this ship, maybe follow people that dont post the ship OR post about hating the ship– just follow people whos views allign with yours and clean up your timeline

i literally said i dont ship it. i think you just read 'i didnt play it’ and then skipped to the end to be mad at me for shipping it.

i dont have to ship something to think the aggression about a ship is weird and offputting

its always 'hes a child’ (i disagree in every way you possibly can) and ignoring 'hes a 30 foot tall probable-corpse and there is no 1:1 real world comparison to an insane blood monster wanting to start a family with him and never being able to do so because it doesnt make sense because hes crazy’

if mohg is the villain than mohg is the problem here, not the ship, so shipping him with yourself is just as bad and hypocritical. youre siding witht he person whos calling mohg a pedophile but are cool with them shipping THEMSELVES with the pedophile? they should be anti MOHG not anti mohg/miquella.

OP is a real person that is an adult and consented to the relationship, how can I tell them to stop? I don’t like Mohg character either but I can’t tell people to stop liking a character. The Tarnished is a self-insert character that marries a doll, joins the Serpent family, joins blood cult of Mohg like Varre, and even serves the necromancer Fia that “sleeps with corpses”?

I just feel uncomfortable when people have the most inaccurate knowledge about the game lore and the relationship and parade arround like its canon.

'i cant tell people to not liek a character’ but you CAN tell them not to like a ship?

im not screaming, im frustrated that people are telling other people what to ship instead of sticking to their own ship. i DONT ship mohg/miquella, i DO care that people are constantly bugging other people about their ships. OP called people 'mouth breathers with no original thougths’ and you didnt care about that. “fuckin lunatic” and “not fucking cute it’s fucked up” you didnt care about that screaming whatsoever, you were only mad about shippers, so pretending you only care about tone NOW is very silly

again you seem not to care about what i actually wrote– i dont care if miquella and mohg are canonically together (obviously not) or if mohg is canonically in love (debatable, i think, at best its in an insane one sided way) i dont like people making up lies and being hypocritical and accusing people of setting back gay rights forever by having a bad ship. I dont care about the game, i care about the behavior. you apparently care more about the ship

This is a win for this raft of a ship I’m sitting on! A win, I say! Mohg/Morgott rights!

as far as i know, miquella is not a child? hes basically got dwarfism? ‘never grew’ isnt the same as ‘is a child’. hes twins with Malenia, they are the same age. at this point youre just mad about a size difference, and considering the player character only comes up to Mohgs waist shipping him with yourseld has the same issue

also when he put himself in the tree he DID grow– his arm is as long as Mohgs whole body, so hes presumably twice or even three times as large as mohg. so if he really was ‘a child’ its like being mad that mohg is being shipped with someone who was ONCE a child

Morgot is liek an oldman demon and mohg is like an animalistic demon– i dont think that human social rules like incest super apply to them? they probably cant have kids and they arent going to get married in a christian church and mohg is insane and possesed by like a blood demon and they are killers and lunatics. i feel like 'but brothers’ is probably the least objectionable thing about their relationship. im not a fan of twin pairings in media where its clearly centered on earth, but like.. these are big nasty demons in a hellworld. Dung Eater is real here– there are more important things to worry about if you actually live there.

“Yay! Rape and incest is so cute! So wholesome! I love them! I have had exactly 2 original thoughts in my entire life!” so you think enjoying this is a common thing? most people like it? youre the unusual one? I dont agree with you, i think its pretty rare to enjoy it and only seems common when you follow people who are part of a circle passing it around. i see people all the time saying they hate this ship, maybe follow people that dont post the ship OR post about hating the ship– just follow people whos views allign with yours and clean up your timeline

i literally said i dont ship it. i think you just read 'i didnt play it’ and then skipped to the end to be mad at me for shipping it.

i dont have to ship something to think the aggression about a ship is weird and offputting

its always 'hes a child’ (i disagree in every way you possibly can) and ignoring 'hes a 30 foot tall probable-corpse and there is no 1:1 real world comparison to an insane blood monster wanting to start a family with him and never being able to do so because it doesnt make sense because hes crazy’

if mohg is the villain than mohg is the problem here, not the ship, so shipping him with yourself is just as bad and hypocritical. youre siding witht he person whos calling mohg a pedophile but are cool with them shipping THEMSELVES with the pedophile? they should be anti MOHG not anti mohg/miquella.

OP is a real person that is an adult and consented to the relationship, how can I tell them to stop? I don't like Mohg character either but I can't tell people to stop liking a character. The Tarnished is a self-insert character that marries a doll, joins the Serpent family, joins blood cult of Mohg like Varre, and even serves the necromancer Fia that "sleeps with corpses"?

I just feel uncomfortable when people have the most inaccurate knowledge about the game lore and the relationship and parade arround like its canon.

This is a win for this raft of a ship I’m sitting on! A win, I say! Mohg/Morgott rights!

as far as i know, miquella is not a child? hes basically got dwarfism? ‘never grew’ isnt the same as 'is a child’. hes twins with Malenia, they are the same age. at this point youre just mad about a size difference, and considering the player character only comes up to Mohgs waist shipping him with yourseld has the same issue

also when he put himself in the tree he DID grow– his arm is as long as Mohgs whole body, so hes presumably twice or even three times as large as mohg. so if he really was 'a child’ its like being mad that mohg is being shipped with someone who was ONCE a child

Morgot is liek an oldman demon and mohg is like an animalistic demon– i dont think that human social rules like incest super apply to them? they probably cant have kids and they arent going to get married in a christian church and mohg is insane and possesed by like a blood demon and they are killers and lunatics. i feel like 'but brothers’ is probably the least objectionable thing about their relationship. im not a fan of twin pairings in media where its clearly centered on earth, but like.. these are big nasty demons in a hellworld. Dung Eater is real here– there are more important things to worry about if you actually live there.

“Yay! Rape and incest is so cute! So wholesome! I love them! I have had exactly 2 original thoughts in my entire life!” so you think enjoying this is a common thing? most people like it? youre the unusual one? I dont agree with you, i think its pretty rare to enjoy it and only seems common when you follow people who are part of a circle passing it around. i see people all the time saying they hate this ship, maybe follow people that dont post the ship OR post about hating the ship– just follow people whos views allign with yours and clean up your timeline

Quan Zhi Gao Shou / The King’s Avatar OVA PV2

OVA official release date: April 27, 2018