Out of this World

We talked a lot about Stacey Abrams’ comment about Buffy/Spike (with good reason!), but there was also Susanne Newton, an Australian policitian, who had responded to her back then, in November 2020.

From what I read on the internet, she was the deputy mayor of Darebin, near Melbourne. She’s a progressive politician, who’s passionate about feminism and actually founded Women’s Melbourne Network, a feminist organization, and worked with UN Women in Uganda. (Just to add some context, I wanted to make sure she was an ok person before I shared this 😆).

“And I love him for it.” 🥺

Source

This is probably my favorite Giles scene 🥺

Tony Head was a wonderful actor, very talented. He also seemed to be a genuinely good person. This past year and a half hasn't been kind to the Buffy fandom...

I grew up watching Buffy and I can't express how much the characters, and the actors who played them, are still a part of me to this day.

This moment was a turning point in their relationship in two ways.

1) Buffy opened a door to Spike’s feelings. It wasn’t seen as some crazy obsession anymore. She actually realized and saw firsthand how genuine his feelings for her were beyond the initial creepiness. In the very same episode, soulless Spike was shown as capable of both the worst (Buffybot) and the best (protecting Dawn and Buffy at the risk of his own life, while Buffy should never have known about it).

2) By doing this (showing respect, gratitude and acceptance toward Spike and his feelings), Buffy compelled Spike to do better and *be* better. What he saw in Buffy’s eyes at this moment only made him want to be worthy of that respect and acceptance. She led him on the right path. His character only grew from that point on. And something like the Buffybot later became something he could barely even stand to look at.

When talking about intent regarding Destiel, a little reminder that these books were in the SPN writing room.

I can promise you that the TV show Supernatural does not justify you calling a stranger on the internet a “monster” for posting their opinion.

Let me start by saying that Jensen is of course entitled to his own interpretation/opinion on the show and on Dean’s character. Like the rest of us. We don't have to agree.

We should also keep in mind that Jensen doesn’t have the whole picture as he (like actors do most of the time) did not watch the show and did not experience the story the way we did. Same way we didn’t experience it the way he did.

I completely believe Jensen when he says he did not play Dean this way. But no, Destiel shippers are not crazy to see their relationship in a romantic way. Both can be true. The thing is that Jensen does not get to chose how people perceived it. We all come from different places, we all experienced the story differently depending on what matters to us or resonates with us.

Jensen knows that Dean is a repressed character. He said so himself when answering the question right after this one. People having different readings about this character and his relationships is legit. And our opinions are not worth less because we’re fans. There is a huge portion of fans who saw it this way (romantic Destiel), which gives this reading of the story its credibility. Because THE SHOW is fictional, and this is how it works with fiction. There are layers, and different readings, and the response from the audience is also very telling.

There were many other people involved in the telling of this story. Some of them who actually validated the romantic reading of Dean and Cas' relationship. Even Rob and Rich are commenting on it on their podcast, saying that they finally get it now that they’re watching the show. I love Jensen, I think he’s a great actor and a good person, but he doesn’t have the final say on it. This story belongs to all of us. 

There were many Destiel related things in the show that Jensen is probably not aware of, that support that narrative. Like, at the top of my mind because I saw posts about it recently:

Lucifer always presenting himself under the traits of a romantic loved one to possess someone, and that’s what he did with Dean in 15x19 while pretending to be Cas. 

Or the episode Despair telling the story of 3 characters losing their romantic partner successively (Charlie losing her girlfriend, Sam loosing Eileen, Dean losing Cas). 

Or Dean gifting Cas a mixtape of songs from the band his parents bonded over when they met, and the way there was a focus of the camera on their hands when he handed back the mixtape to Cas… etc. 

These are only a tiny part of the narrative elements that Jensen probably didn’t catch while playing Dean, but they also matter in the reading of the whole story.

What was annoying in his answer at JenMish’s panel was not his opinion per se (because we kinda knew how he felt) but how he disregarded the fact that fans might have a different perception of the story, and that it might actually be a valid interpretation of the story and not just some fan fantasy based on nothing, which is the feeling that he gave.

If he simply had said that he did not play it this way, and didn’t feel the relationship this way, but that he respected that it might be what came across on screen for a part of the audience (and that it’s a valid reading like any other), that would be so much more mature and much better for everyone.

Like, give your opinion but don’t make it the only possible reading of the story. Because it’s fiction, and we should be free to talk about it without being shut down. Especially with a ship as popular as Destiel. I’m maybe naive, but when a story resonates that much in a romantic way with fans, that should make you pause and think about it. Even if you ultimately disagree.

My issue here was how Jensen sounded final. He gave the feeling that he put his opinion over all of ours. Insisting on the word “fiction” to make it look like less than it was, putting it in the same category as the fiction about the incest between the two brothers. Talking about brotherhood and Cas’ declaration being like a coming out to a member of his family (??). And Jensen's tone was kinda harsh when talking about the whole thing.

Jensen is acting offended every time we talk about Dean’s side of Destiel, like if we insulted him. He once said at a con (circa 2009? 2010?) that he wanted to star in a cowboy movie until he saw Brokeback Mountain and his interest just “completely tanked”. I mean 😬😬😬 Of course, it was a long time ago and it got better after that, but this is not a good look at all. And of course people are going to read a little into his defensive reaction to Destiel. What I mean is Destiel should not be treated like a dirty little secret at conventions, because it’s not, and it shouldn’t be. There is nothing shameful about that interpretation. Even if you disagree with that reading of the story.

Haters are gonna side with Jensen, because it suits them well or for whatever reason, but if it didn’t suit them, they would actually notice that his reaction to it is not a good look at all.

This is something I have a hard time getting over. I respect Jensen, like I said he’s a great actor and a great person, but the way he’s handling this topic is really disappointing. I saw some people say that we should stop asking questions about Destiel, but why censoring ourselves? It was a Jensen & Misha panel, and this question was about the relationship between their characters.

Almost 6 years after the end of the show, I’d expect better. Destiel shippers are a significant part of the fandom (127 205 fanfictions on Ao3 right now!), which means the story resonated with many of us. In a romantic sense. Jensen acting like his view of the character is the only valid one just kills the spirit and the joy we might get out of the story. Yes, he played Dean Winchester and I’m grateful. But no, it doesn’t mean he has the final say on who Dean Winchester is and what his relationship with Castiel was.

Again, I can’t stress this enough: asking about the romantic aspect of a relationship that lasted 12 years on screen (may it be romance or interpreted as something else), and that CAN BE read this way because some parts of the story support it, should not be triggering to a 48 years old actor.