mcdman

It’s surprisingly common for me to get an email inquiring about a producer’s (or mixer’s) rates and schedule – and yet the email will contain very little info about the artist.  I’m a big fan of efficiency, but it would be nice to know something about the artist, and perhaps have links to the artist’s website, YouTube channel, Facebook page, etc.

The absence of this info suggests to me that the sender of the email thinks hiring a producer or mixer is strictly a business transaction – that it’s just a matter of coming up with a certain amount of money.  The reality is that hiring a producer or mixer is more like finding a roommate than buying new tires for your car.  In the same way that you might want to find a roommate who shares similar interests (tidy, early riser, quiet, etc.), producers and mixers want to know a bit about the artist with whom they’re going to work.

So if you want to work with a producer or mixer, you’ll get a lot further if you tell us a little about yourself.  We don’t need your life story.  A brief overview and links to your webpage, videos, social media would be great.

What if you don’t have a webpage or videos or social media? Honestly, it makes it harder for us to get excited about working with you.  Would you book a hotel if it didn’t have a website you could check out?  A lot of people won’t even go to a restaurant or a movie unless they can check it out online first.  A producer who might spend a week or a month in the same room wants to know a little about the people with whom he’ll be working.  Even a mixer who might only spend a day on your song wants to get a sense of who you are.

It’s pretty common for people to ask me if one of my clients will do a test mix. Generally this means that several mixers will be mixing the same song, and the artist will pick the one they like best.  I suppose there’s a certain logic to doing this.  After all, most people wouldn’t dream of buying a car without test driving it, right?  And mixing a record is a big investment, so isn’t it sensible to do test mixes?  

Well, in my experience, there are several inherent problems with test mixes:

1.      For starters, evaluating mixes is so subjective that picking a mixer is often a self-fulfilling prophecy.  If you LOVE a bunch of records mixed by a particular mixer, and you’re EXCITED about working with that mixer, then odds are pretty good that you’ll be happy working with that mixer.  If you’re ambivalent about a mixer, and you’re not sure if he’s the right guy, then odds are you’ll be unsure about his mixes no matter how they sound.  You’ll always wonder what the songs would have sounded like if you had been able to hire your dream mixer.

2.      If you do test mixes with several different people, odds are you’ll love the way the guitars sound in one mix, and the way the drums sound in another mix.  At the end of the day, you’ll find yourself chasing elements of different mixes which may be impossible to have in one mix.

3.      Mixing should be a collaborative effort.  This point (and others) are made eloquently in this note from one of my clients to an A&R guy:   “Regarding the test mix, I really do thank you for considering me, but I have issues doing these kind of shootouts for many reasons:

“First—no great records were ever made like this. I always cite Led Zeppelin and Jimmy Page as an influence in my thinking.  Jimmy used different guys on every record—sometimes just the house guys at certain studios and sometimes the old trusted dudes -- but in the end it still sounded the way he wanted.  As producer, he worked with the engineers and mixers to help them achieve that Zep sound that we all love and that was in his head.  At the same time left behind a body of work that doesn’t sound redundant from record to record.  The band grew with each outing and I firmly believe it’s because great records are made with communication and people working together.

“It takes a little time to get into the swing of a record, and I welcome the communication between myself and a band...getting to learn what they like and dislike.  A shootout is so impersonal – it’s just guessing what people may like and being afraid to steer too far off the path since they may not like it.  

“Second—no matter how many times someone says they won’t just like the loudest mix, they always pick the loudest one.  Its human nature—louder is better.  I don’t like blasting things into oblivion so it immediately impresses the band, but instead I try to mix with music decisions in mind. I let the mastering guy make the volume competitive and not just more blown up and distorted.

“Anyway, I do thank you for the opportunity to be involved.  But I like to work WITH a band to make great records…not just be forced into going for flash and volume off the bat to hopefully get the gig.”

Our recommendation is this:  

1.      Do your homework and pick a mixer who has done work that you truly admire.

2.      Talk to that mixer about how you want your record to sound, and get the mixer’s input.

3.      Trust your gut… if it feels like the right decision, commit yourself to making it work with that mixer.

4.      Believe in yourself and your music.  As important as it is to get a great mix, it is still a tiny fraction of what makes your music connect with an audience – words, melody, performance – all of these things carry much more weight. Don’t lose sight of the big picture!

To revisit the analogy about test driving a car, here’s a final point: we don’t want to sell you a car you don’t like!   We only want to work with you if you really want to work with the mixer, and are committed to making it work.  At the end of the day, any reputable mixer wants the same thing as the artist:  he wants you to be wildly happy with the mixes, to be incredibly successful in your career, and to work with you again on your future recordings.

It’s surprisingly common for me to get an email inquiring about a producer’s rates and schedule – and yet the email will not mention the name of the band, or include a link to a website or a YouTube channel  or a Facebook page.

To me, this suggests that the sender of the email thinks hiring a producer or mixer is strictly a business transaction – that it’s just a matter of coming up with a certain amount of money.

The reality is that hiring a producer or a mixer is more like finding a roommate than buying new tires for your car.  In the same way that you might want to find a roommate who shares similar interests (tidy, early riser, quiet, etc.), a producer wants to work with bands he likes.

So if you want to work with a producer or mixer, you’ll have a lot more success if you tell us the name of your band.  Even better: send us a link to your webpage, videos, social media.

What if you don’t have a webpage or videos or social media? Honestly, it makes it harder for us to get excited about working with you.  Would you book a hotel if it didn’t have a website you could check out?  A lot of people won’t even go to a restaurant or a movie unless they can check it out on line first.  A producer who might spend a week or a month in the same room wants to know a little about the people with whom he’ll be working.

Bands who don’t have a website or videos make us wonder… why not? A lot of bands will say they don’t want to do any of those things until they have an amazing recording done with a superstar producer.  They want to put their best foot forward.  Following that logic, they won’t do a video until they get Martin Scorsese to direct it, and Angelina Jolie to star in it.  And they won’t play any shows until they can sell out Madison Square Garden.

A lot of times producer or mixers are asked to deliver stems.  Sometimes what people mean is the multi-tracks -- the kind you'd get if you were using 24-track tape.  These days, the "multi-tracks" are usually recorded in ProTools.  But often, when people request stems, what they want are effectively sub-mixes:  the drums mixed down to stereo, the guitars mixed down to stereo, etc.   That presents a variety of problems:

1.  For starters, there’s no standard for what “stems” are. Some people just want stereo drums, stereo guitars, bass, stereo BGVs, and lead vocal. Other people want cymbals separate from the drums. Some people want one pass of the kick drum, one pass of the snare, one of the cymbals, etc. Some people want a pass with just Bob’s guitars, and then another pass with just Jim’s guitars. Oh yeah, there’s an accordion on one song, that needs to be separate, too. And by the way, if you need the stems for Guitar Hero, they want completely different stems than Rock Band. One label sent a list of 18 different stems they wanted. They offered to pay, but money alone doesn’t address all the issues (see below).

2.  Making stems is very time consuming. Running all these passes (once you figure out what the heck people want) can take hours. It seems like it should be a simple no‐brainer, but it’s not. It takes time to figure out what needs to be included in any given pass. (Should I include the tambourine in with the drums? Or should that be separate?) It takes time to find and isolate all the things that need to be included and excluded. If it was just a matter of the amount of time spent, we’d ask for an additional fee (though the work is drudgery for mixers and the money is small solace). But that’s not the only issue… read on.

3.  So, you want to send for a remix? You’ve got the multi‐tracks… why can’t you send the re‐mixer the same files you sent the mixer? You might say it’s because there are elements of the mixers mix that you really love… the vocal sound, the drums, etc. So you want to give that to the re‐mixer so he can incorporate that into his remix? So his remix sounds great? And he gets credit for that? Doesn’t that seem like cheating? It certainly seems unfair to the mixers I know. If you need a re‐mixer who can do a great job without being spoon‐fed, I can recommend some people.

Different people mean different things by “test mix.”  It can mean…

(1)   We think you’re the perfect guy, we want you to mix the album, but let’s start off with one song, and if everyone loves it as we expect, then we’ll keep going.  We’ll pay you for the mix, of course, whether we keep going or not.

(2)   We really like your work, but can’t decide between you and three other guys, so we’re going to have a shoot-out:  we’re going to pay everyone to mix the track, and whoever does the mix we like the most, that’s who we’ll pick to mix the album. 

If you are an indie artist and/or if you are self-financing your record, please don’t ask me the rate for a certain producer or mixer.  If you have real plans to record or mix a record, just tell me what you are prepared to pay. 

It’s probably a fair assumption that the price I would quote is higher than what you’re prepared to spend.  (Generally producers need a budget of $10,000 or more to produce one song, and mixers need $3500 or more to mix one song.  But these numbers can vary wildly.)  So tell me your budget and let’s see if we can work something out.

(If you want a fuller explanation of why I usually don’t quote rates, check out this blog post: http://tinyurl.com/o2spjqs )

Aside from budget, there are TWO factors that will greatly influence the willingness of a producer or mixer to work with you if you have a small budget:

Music – Are your songs interesting to the producer or mixer?  It’s not a question of whether your music is “good,” because that’s subjective.  What one guy loves, another might hate.  So it’s really a matter of whether or not a producer or mixer happens to personally like your music.

Activity – Are you touring?  Posting videos on YouTube?  Interacting with fans on social media?  Do you have a cool website?  Do you have a manager?  An agent?  A record deal?  All of this is important to a producer or mixer.  Why?  Because it shows that the artist has initiative, drive, and ambition.  It suggests that, if the producer spends time making a great record, the artist is likely going to work really hard to make sure the world hears that recording.

If you’ve got great music, lots of activity, but not much money… A lot of producers or mixers might still be willing to get involved.   Even if he doesn’t get paid much, the producer will still get a chance to work on some great music, and with all the activity you’ve got going on, there’s a good chance a lot of other people will hear it.   Maybe you’ll get lucky and your record will explode.

If you’ve got great music, plenty of money, but not much activity… A producer or mixer will likely be willing to take a shot with you.   It’s a big leap of faith that you’ll start cranking on the websites and videos and tours and everything else after recording is done.  But if you’re willing to invest in your career and pay a producer or mixer for his time, then some guys will likely be willing to take that risk.

If you’ve got great music, but no activity and very little money… Most professional producers will say no to this.  There’s just too much of a risk that a producer or mixer will invest his time and talent into a project for a fraction of what he might otherwise be paid, only to have the music go unheard because the artist was unable to deal with the work that happens after a record is finished – marketing, publicity, social media, touring, etc.

Hope this sheds some light.  Feel free to email me for more info: [email protected]

Thanks for reading…

There are generally THREE things that a producer will consider when deciding whether he wants to work with an artist:

Music – Are your songs interesting to the producer?  It’s not a question of whether your music is “good,” because that’s so subjective.  What one guy loves, another might hate.  So it’s really a matter of whether or not a producer happens to personally like your music.

Activity – Are you touring?  Posting videos on YouTube?  Interacting with fans on social media?  Do you have a cool website?  Do you have a manager?  An agent?  A record deal?  All of this is important to a producer.  Why?  Because it shows that the artist has initiative, drive, and ambition.  It suggests that, if the producer spends time making a great record, the artist is likely going to work really hard to make sure the world hears that recording.

Money – How much will it cost?  Unfortunately there’s no easy answer to this, because there are so many variables.  (Check this for a little more info:  http://tinyurl.com/pz5kotj )  But for the sake of this conversation, let's say that a successful producer would expect a budget of $10,000 per song, and a mixer might expect a budget of $3500 per song.

Generally you need to have at least TWO of these things before a producer or a mixer will get involved.  Some examples:

- Great music / lots of activity / not much money – A lot of producers or mixers would still be willing to get involved.   Even if he doesn’t get paid much, the producer will still get a chance to work on some great music, and with all the activity you’ve got going on, there’s a good chance a lot of other people will hear it.   Maybe you’ll get lucky and your record will explode.

- Great music / little activity / plenty of money – So, you’re just getting the ball rolling, and you don’t have a lot of activity yet.  But you’ve got a decent budget, and some great songs.  You’ll probably find a producer or mixer willing to take a shot with you.   It’s a big leap of faith that you’ll start cranking on the websites and videos and tours and everything else after recording is done.  But if you’re willing to spend a lot of money hiring a producer, then some guys will likely be willing to take that risk.

- Not so great music / lots of activity / plenty of money – Most professional producers or mixers will say no to this… they’d love to be involved, but if they’re not feeling the music, they shouldn’t do it.

Tommy & the High Pilots perform “Innocent” live at Studio Delux. 

If you are an indie artist and/or if you are self-financing your record, please don't ask me the rate for a certain producer or mixer.  If you have real plans to record or mix a record (as opposed to someone who is just window-shopping... looking for info for a project that might happen some day), just tell me what you are prepared to pay.  Tell me what you have budgeted for your project.

Why?  Because I don’t really enjoy haggling.  I’m in this business because I like music… not because I like making deals.  I also like efficiency.  So let’s just cut to the chase and see if we can work something out.

Here are some other reasons why you should tell me what you want to pay:

Anchoring The first person to give a number sets the bar for negotiations.  It’s called “anchoring.”  So why am I telling you this?  Check out these two scenarios…

Scenario 1:  You ask me for a price.  Usually I’ll discuss it with my client, and then I’ll come back to you with a figure of, say, $10,000.  (That’s the anchor.)  Then you tell me you only have $2,000.  I have to go back to my client and give him your number.  In his mind, you’re asking him to take an $8000 pay cut!  

Scenario 2:  Instead of asking for a price, you just tell me in our initial conversation that your budget is $2,000.  (That’s the anchor.)  I’d discuss THAT with my client, and though it might not be what he wants to get paid, there’s a better chance that he’ll look at the situation as an opportunity to make $2000. 

It’s all about perception.  In #1, we start at $10,000 and go way down to $2,000.  In #2, we start off with nothing and are presented an opportunity to make $2,000.

Opportunity I am more interested in finding great opportunities for my clients than I am in squeezing every last penny out of a deal.  As an artist, you might represent a unique opportunity for my client.  Maybe he really likes your music and thinks that you have incredible potential.   

If you ask me for a price, and I give a number that’s too high for you, I run the risk that you’ll walk away.  I don’t want that.  So once again:  tell me what you want to pay.

Respect Don't worry about insulting me or my client with a low budget.  Ultimately you're going to have to tell me what you can spend anyway, and it's better to get that out of the way earlier, rather than later.

If you don't, here's what happens:  You ask me the rate, and I tell you it's $10,000 and THEN you tell me you only have $400.  My client and I both are left to think: "What the hell?  Did this person think my rate was LESS than $400?  Because otherwise, why would he/she ask the rate?  Or is this the kind of person who gets some thrill by trying to get a 96% rate reduction?"  THAT is when we are insulted.

If you are straightforward about your situation, that will show respect.  And in turn, you will earn ours.

Credibility A guy walks into a car dealership.  He asks the price of a new car, and the salesperson tells him it’s $50,000.  The car shopper is visibly shocked, and explains to the seller that he only has $4,500.  This doesn’t really get the relationship off to a good start.  The seller probably won’t take this customer seriously… mainly because the customer seems kind of clueless.

So maybe you’re new to this world, and you have no idea how much producers or mixers charge.  Fair enough.  We all have to learn at some point.  But just be up-front and say that.  You’ll win us over with your honesty.

And that brings us back to the main point:  don’t ask how much, just say what you want to pay.  Let’s apply that to the car-shopper…

A guy walks into a car dealership and finds a salesperson.  The shopper explains that he’s got $4500, and asks if the dealer can give him some options.  Maybe the salesperson will just laugh.  Or maybe he’ll try to point the guy toward a reliable used car.  But in any event, it’s more likely to be a productive conversation.

If you’re a major label or established artist or just well-financed, by all means, feel free to ask what the rate is.  But if you ask that question, you should generally be able to afford somewhere in the ballpark of the rate.

Efficiency As I mentioned, I love efficiency.  It drives me nuts when artists do what I call the “price dance.”  The price dance has seven steps:

1 - The artist asks me the rate for a very experienced producer/mixer.

2 - Rather than give a rate, I ask:  “What can you afford?”

3 - The artist tells me their life story, tells me they don’t have major label money, and tells me that they’re paying for it themselves.

4 - At this point, I’m already tired of the back and forth, and I give the the artist the best rate that I’m willing to offer up given what I know about the situation.

5 - The artist says “Wow… that’s way more than I can afford.”

6- I respond by asking (again) “How can you afford? Give me a number.”

7 - At this point, the artist finally offers a price, which (more often than not) is a tiny fraction of the rate I gave them. 

Conclusion Just tell me what you want to pay.  We might not not be able to help you. Or we might suggest an alternative (i.e., would you consider doing 5 songs for your budget instead of 10?).  But in any event, if you're up-front with us about your budget, you're more likely to have a friendly, productive conversation with us.

Thanks for reading...