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egyptology & classical studies
greco-roman-kemetic polytheist
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@lotusnymphe
h | twenty | she/they/he
egyptology & classical studies
greco-roman-kemetic polytheist

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friendly reminder to those who identify as a helpol to not forget to honor Hestia before every prayer and ritual at home, no matter if you call yourself "reconstructionist" or "revivalist"
the religious urge to learn the ancient language your gods have been worshipped in for thousands of years so you can feel closer to them
hi, i don’t know if you ever made a post about miasma but you seem really well informed, so i hope you don’t mind me asking this.
I read that if you came in contact with death you had to cleanse the miasma before praying or approaching a sacred place. How would you recommend cleansing? and also if you believe there should be some kind of cleansing/protection involved when praying to kthonic deities?
- @sunlit-arrow
Hi, yes, thank you for asking @sunlit-arrow!
And yes, if you come in contact with anything that's dead or related to death you'll get Miasma.
Personally, I'd take a long and thorough shower as well as smoke/incense cleanse myself to get rid of it. You can also make a special kind of Khnerpis (cleansing water) by putting incense ashes into it or burned herbs. There's no right or wrong way to cleanse yourself though.
To answer your second question — yes, I think one should take precautions when praying to khthonic deities or khthonic aspects of deities. The most common and "effective" would be veiling to prevent Miasma from entering, what I also recommend but is not necessary, is that you don't make direct eye contact with your shrine/altar but put the veil in front of your face, it should give extra protection.
And another very important thing with khthonic (aspects of) deities is that you do not eat the offerings you have left. Normally, you would be able to but when it's a khthonic (aspect of a) deity it gets tainted with Miasma.
But I have to mention that historically the Greeks did not worship any khthonic deities or khthonic aspects of deities as it was a taboo sort of. I personally am against worshipping khthonics in my four walls but everyone is entitled to their own worship! So you do you.
A general tip at the end: please don't make yourself crazy over Miasma, it's very rare to get it and not the end of the world.
If you got more questions, feel free to ask!!!
parents should have known I'd become pagan when naming me after a figure from the illiad

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it's hard acting in Ma'at when everyone around you is acting in Isfet
— You cannot reach the gods without first paying respect to the King and Queen of Olympus.
Helpol question(s):
Why does death and communicating with chthonic deities cause lyma?
(I know that not everyone believes this about chthonic deities.)
I understand if it is simply the belief, but I'm curious if it stems from anything specific.
elder helpol here!
It does not cause Lyma, but Miasma! Lyma is a spiritual dirt that you gather through simply just living. Go outside? You have Lyma. Eat in a restaurant? You have Lyma. Write an exam? You have Lyma. Sit in your room? You have Lyma.
But Miasma is specifically reserved for anything that is related to death and khthonic deities. It is also a type of spiritual dirt you gain when being in contact with those. It's nothing you can prevent, that's why when worshipping khthonic deities we have to take more precautions — veiling, not eating offerings,... — that we don't have to do with any other type of deities.
On top of that, getting rid of Miasma is harder than Lyma. Lyma you can just wash off by simply washing your hands and/or face. But Miasma has to be something grander, like a combination of a thorough shower and smoke/incense cleansing!
Hottake but if you're a newbie who doesn't know anything or barely anything about the religion (not the myths) you're stepping into then you shouldn't start with grand altars to various complex deities.
You should start simple and small and with that I mean a hearth or household altar.
Start small, worship only those who are actively taking part in your life like Hestia representing your home or the Lares protecting your property or Renenutet who ensures you get food.
There's so many deities out there that protect you and ensure you're safe and sound, honour them in small ways before you risk getting a burnout from overdoing yourself.
And as your journey continues and you learn more and more and grow confident in your practice, then you can start worshipping the full extend of the complexity your pantheon is.
I truly believe that if you’re going to engage with Greek mythology then you have to put the moral purity aside. None of the characters are going to behave according to our modern sense of morality or ethics. So you either have to get over it OR you have to be willing to dive deeper into the narrative and research the context. Instead of saying “Zeus is clearly a predator” ask yourself WHY are there so many stories about Zeus having babies with mortal women? What’s the significance? Dive deeper into the story and realize the location is ALWAYS mentioned and focused on. See that the child that was conceived typically goes on to do world changing things such as founding a new kingdom…a kingdom that’s usually related to the location that the narrative kept focusing on….huh I wonder why? Perhaps maybe these stories are not about how Zeus likes to get his dick wet (forgive my bluntness Big Poppa! 🙏🏻) but about kingdoms and royalty wanting to link their beginnings to the King of Kings himself??? Maybe????? Possibly??? But I’m just guessing 🤷🏻♀️
This!!!
You cannot look at ancient texts with modern moral understanding and laws, after all there's centuries in between!
And if you're a hellenic pagan/polytheist then even less because the myths do no represent our gods how they actually behaved but how people have viewed them and their domains when it's about things they have (not) done

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I'm not right wing or conservative and I also disregard the specific Laws of Ma'at you posted. I don't go out of my way to be a dick but those were written for one individual only for them to recite at judgement in the afterlife. A lot of the "Books of the Dead" had them tailored to fit the individual the book was written for
Hiding behind the anon button, of course
So you disregard to not make people cry and to not do evil deeds? Okay pop off
becoming a roman polytheist and learning about the vestal virgins made me realise why christians become nuns
right wing and conservative kempol will never not be funny to me, like, what do you mean you disregard the Laws of Ma'at?
"I have not closed my ears to truth." — yet you completely ignore the fact there's people unlike you
"I have not made anyone cry." — yet you bully people for no reasonable reason
"I have not been angry without reason." — yet you are right wing
"I have not terrorized anyone." — yet you hate on and harass whole demographics
"I have not been exclusively angry." — yet you shame anyone who isn't to your standards
"I have not behaved with violence." — yet you have harmed innocent people
"I have not caused disruption of peace." — yet you make life for many living hell
"I have not overstepped my boundaries of concern." — yet you behave like your word is law
"I have not worked evil." — yet your political views are evil incarnate
"I have not used evil thoughts, words or deeds." — yet you wish death upon anyone who's not to your standards
"I have not placed myself on a pedestal." — yet you see certain demographics as below yourself
"I have not acted with insolence." — yet you are yourself
No but for real: if you call yourself kempol and in any way agree with any right wing or conservative ideology, you should be ashamed of yourself for not acting in Ma'at but Isfet
No, the Roman deities aren't just the Hellenic ones in a new wrapper, they're distinct from each other.
In fact, many Roman gods had different functions before they syncretised (got infused) with the Hellenic pantheon! For example, Mars used to be a protector of Rome and it's agriculture before he became associated with war due to his syncretism with Ares.
Plus, many deities have existed long before the city of Rome was even founded. For example Juno and Minerva: they're originally etruscan deities going by the names Uni (Juno) and Menrva (Minerva).
And also, some deities do not have an "equivalent" in the Hellenic pantheon. For example Janus, the god of beginnings, gates, transitions, time, duality, doorways, passages, frames, and endings. Yes, he may be similar to Khronos, but no, he's not his "equivalent" (also since he exists since etruscan times).
— PSA from a greco-roman polytheist
Absolutely!
And people will use the excuse that the ancient people syncretized their gods a lot and worshipped foreign gods when roman polytheists tell them not to tag roman polytheism content as hellenic polytheism, to not mix up the deities and use the Roman gods as "roman equivalent" names for greek gods.
If you are a soft polytheist or syncretize gods or anything similar, specifically greco roman.. ask yourself,
What part of the syncretized "greco roman" deity you worship is roman? What part of your worship of them *actually* includes roman traditions.
Are you actually incorporating cultus deorum into your practice or are you just using the roman names to sound fancy?
Also, when a roman polytheist tells you they don't have the same view of the gods as you, don't be like, "um actually the ancient did this and that"
That rompol person you are talking with isn't an ancient roman citizen. They have their own opinions, UPG, and views on the gods.
If they see Venus as separate from Aphrodite, let them do so dammit. You may see them as a same goddess...
But as i said... Do you really see them as a same goddess and actually try to incorporate the "roman part' or do you just believe the incorrect theory that roman gods are greek equivalents?
This is heavily UPG now but worshipping the roman and hellenic "equivalent" of certain gods showed me so much how different they are.
I do not syncretise my gods when doing individual worship which gives me a good insight in how they represent themselves to me.
Ares is very warm to me and gives fatherly feelings, while Mars is very distant like a teacher or mentor.
Aphrodite is bubbly and sisterly while Venus is calm and motherly.
And not only their personality but their visual representation in my mind is different between the "counterparts" of both pantheons.
While I associate Athena with all kinds of blues I associate Minerva with greens.
While yes, I know it varies from worshipper to worshipper how the gods represent themselves, this made me realise just how much different the gods are.
This is an example of godspousal in ancient Greece
This is an example of godspousal in ancient Greece
This is an example of godspousal in ancient Greece
it is but it is ritual, not common
the basilina didn't do it because she felt a romantic/sexual connection to Dionysos, she did because she had to
there's a difference between modern and ancient godspousal which cannot be compared without mischaracterising one or the other
plus "it is believed" already implies there's something dubious aka we can not 100% be sure this actually did happen or at least not in the way as described

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No, the Roman deities aren't just the Hellenic ones in a new wrapper, they're distinct from each other.
In fact, many Roman gods had different functions before they syncretised (got infused) with the Hellenic pantheon! For example, Mars used to be a protector of Rome and it's agriculture before he became associated with war due to his syncretism with Ares.
Plus, many deities have existed long before the city of Rome was even founded. For example Juno and Minerva: they're originally etruscan deities going by the names Uni (Juno) and Menrva (Minerva).
And also, some deities do not have an "equivalent" in the Hellenic pantheon. For example Janus, the god of beginnings, gates, transitions, time, duality, doorways, passages, frames, and endings. Yes, he may be similar to Khronos, but no, he's not his "equivalent" (also since he exists since etruscan times).
— PSA from a greco-roman polytheist
I’m curious. Do people worship the Greek deities Roman style? Like, Juno, Ceres, Jupiter, so on. Do you mirror specific practices that were more unique to Rome rather than Greece and if so, what would it be called? I’m guessing it wouldn’t Hellenic anymore but idk.
you mean roman polytheism...? the practice of worshipping the roman gods...? a religion apart of hellenic polytheism...?
Some of y’all are telling me it’s not apart of Hellenic traditions.
Yes because Roman gods ≠ Hellenic gods. They're not the same. So many of the Roman deities have existed before even Rome was founded (Janus, Juno, Minerva,...). The only reason Hellenic and Roman gods are connected is because of syncretism (= the merging of different religions), but that doesn't make them the same set of deities, especially since many deities from Roman polytheism don't have a "Hellenic equivalent". Maybe do your research? /nbr
“Maybe do your research” maybe I was trying to make a good faith question about how people view/experience their religion AS a starting point and I already stated that I’m assuming it’s not Hellenic so idk why you repeated that. So maybe don’t be a condescending cunt? /disrespectful.
calling me a condescending cunt while I was not being rude at all but just explaining to you how rompol is completely different to helpol is wow, especially since you said "some of y'all are telling me it's not a part of hellenic traditions" as if rompol was part of helpol, my gods
No, you were passive aggressive and the “maybe do your research?” Implies I’m not just genuinely curious/interested and ALREADY making strides to understand better. Idk just work on your tone or communication or something. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to directly ask practicing people how they…perceive their gods and practice their beliefs.
I literally put "/nbr" behind my question because I know it can be perceived as rude so that's not on me, but you I fear
Just work on your communication skills, they’re chopped.
abelist much towards someone with audhd wow
….girl what? Am I supposed to know you have audhd? Also text tones aren’t universal and not everyone uses/knows them. I tried googling the acronym you listed and couldn’t find a solid answer.
Plus, you kinda came off as rude before you even put that, anyway. It’s no one else’s job to work around your audhd and that’s a very bad faith accusation because…how am I supposed to know you have that? Coming from someone else who has similar issues and is also disabled.
maybe just don't call anyone's communication skills chopped? It's rude regardless of disabilities for your information. And no idea where I came off as rude but sure. I'm not gonna continue this discussion as it just goes in circles around the same topic