Loki

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Loki in MCU

Universe of Madness

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1) with his inner war of self-hatred, for being a Jotun (”I’m not Asgardian,” openly directing all those witnessing his almost certain death to his true heritage)

and

2) with his outer feud against the Avengers ( “we have a Hulk,” tacitly quoting Tony Stark, and citing the moment that his worthy adversaries defeated him: people who are, in part, adversaries no more).  

This was truly a seminal moment in Loki’s personal development. 

This is an act of defiance, and one of heroism, for as futile as the endeavor may seem for all practical purposes, Loki DENIES Thanos’s power over him (the power of his abuser, and so many others’), by LOVING HIMSELF: EVERY part of himself. 

Was it a better scene? Do I prefer it to the movie version?

I want to analyze this deleted scene more in depth to answer these questions. It’s the only deleted scene of TR that worth an analysis.

The scene starts with Thor and Loki finding Odin. 

“I stripped him of his memories . Disguised his existence. But I didn’t do this.” 

Loki stops Thor to say this. Thor yanks his arms out of Loki’s hold. Clearly still angry with Loki and blaming him. They both worriedly run to Odin. 

This confirms that Loki only took Odin’s memory and didn’t strip him of his power. What Thor later accuses him of. Also he cares about Odin’s health and didn’t want him in that situation. It also confirms my headcanon that Heimdall only realized Odin wasn’t the one on the throne when Odin broke Loki’s spell and Heimdall could see him again.

Loki’s expression when Odin walks to him is like a little boy who can’t believe this happened to his father. He’s shocked and worried.

“Your lawless nature and the storms within you, you inherited from me.”

This sentence left a bad taste in my mouth. I couldn’t put a finger on the reason. And I couldn’t find the right words to explain it. Because it seems like a nice thing to say. Is it not? Then I remembered how Thor said Loki would do nicely in a trash planet:

Thor: “This place is perfect for you. It’s savage, chaotic, lawless. Brother, you’re going to do GREAT here.”

Loki: “Do you truly think so little of me?”

Thor’s words “chaotic and lawless” imply the same meaning of what Odin says to Loki. And Loki is offended by them. They both see this as sth inferior. So what Odin claims Loki inherited from him is not actually sth praise worthy in their opinion. As I thought more about it I realized this wasn’t the only reason why Odin’s words didn’t sit right with me. What really bothers me is that Odin once again is projecting his own traits on his child. It doesn’t matter whether they’re good or bad, it’s the way that Odin sees his children as an extension of himself and disregards their individuality which is the problem.

But I liked that Odin actually apologized to Loki directly. Loki looks like he’s about to cry. That was one of the best parts of this deleted scene.

The way Loki tries to steady Thor and stop him from falling instinctively is such a nice moment that is an indication of a long life of protecting his brother. Remember it was only the recent years that their relationship fell apart and that Loki’s betrayal to Thor was a shock to him in the first movie.

Then Hela shows up angry and Odin handles the situation as always terribly.

Hela: “With all that I accomplished in your name, tell me why was I condemned? You took everything from me”

Odin: “You gave up everything to pursue your twisted dream. Your way was cold and brutal.” 

We have another moment of Odin’s A+ parenting. Raise your child to be a weapon and instill the ideas of war and glory in them. And as soon as they disobey you and they are of no use to your plans, lock them forever. And blame them for the way they acted according to your own teachings and ideas. Well-done Odin!

Loki’s “No” in this scene killed me! Which was echoed by Thor and the way he threw Mjolnir toward Hela was a parallel to the way he did the same to his mother’s murderer. Both times he was too late. This was a heartbreaking moment. 

Was this a better scene than what we saw in the movie?

It definitely had many good emotional moments as mentioned above.

But it also has some weaknesses. The way Odin gave hints to Thor about seeking out the fire would later take the moment of realization from Thor when he decided to destroy Asgard. He also made Thor king, which later would make Thor’s coronation scene less touching. Because in the movie it feels like Thor has earned the title of being king. But this scene gives everything(a way to defeat Hela and kingship) to Thor on a silver plate. 

The scenery of the cliff in Norway is more beautiful. One of the few scenes in the movie which doesn’t happen in ruins or among trash.

And finally, this is subjective but I preferred Odin’s behavior in the movie, calm and collected, rather than his hobo version when one moment he is sane and wise and then he is not and he kept pronouncing “Asgard” as “Assgard”. I don’t think any version of Odin would ever do that.

Why was this scene deleted and replaced?

“If you saw the trailer, there’s a scene where Odin dies in New York. For various reasons we wanted to get them out of New York and set up this place for Avengers: Endgame. We wanted to seed this location earlier to set up Asgard’s new home. Also, the test audiences felt bummed out about Odin dying next to trash and garbage in an alley.” [X]

According to TW, the scene was cut because the test audience got emotional and sad for Odin’s death and him dying next to trash. And apparently emotions are icky.

But I think there are more reasons than that. In the deleted scene, what Loki actually did to Odin is explained so Thor can’t later blame him for stripping Odin of his power. Loki got an apology from Odin, a hero coded character, which actually makes his grievance with his family valid. His sadness over Odin’s conditions and his reaction to Odin’s death give him more dimensions and make the audience more sympathetic toward him. Also the way he calls Bifrost in the deleted scene is not out of fear like in the movie, but determination and rational thinking that they are weaponless. He also does what Odin told them and tries to get them back to Asgard. So he can’t be blamed for Hela reaching Asgard. There is also no time for Thor blaming Loki for everything that happened. This four minutes deleted scene, gives Loki more validation and sympathy than all of his scenes in the movie. Which later would make it difficult for the narrative to keep invalidating, humiliating and blaming him, and also for Thor in the elevator scene to dismiss Loki and his pain.

Moreover, how do you think the test audience reacted to other characters in this scene? Which character invoked a more emotional reaction beside Odin? Obviously it’s Loki. And TW didn’t want the audience sympathizing with him.

I also think that Odin’s behavior, specially him saying “Assgard”, was meant to make the audience laugh which probably didn’t happen with the test audience.

So in my opinion, all of this together, are the reasons why the scene was replaced, not just the emotional reaction to Odin’s death.

Finally, which scene would be a better choice in the movie?

Moreover, how do you think the test audience reacted to other characters in this scene? Which character invoked a more emotional reaction beside Odin? Obviously it’s Loki. And TW didn’t want the audience sympathizing with him.

This is a pattern in the MCU movies; the directors specifically go out of their way to delete scenes in which Loki comes off sympathetic. I can’t think of any other character they do this to. 

They depower him by stripping his abilities down to the most basic skills (which, look, fighting close-range with daggers is nothing to scoff at, but while it does display Loki’s fluidity and grace in combat, it’s still physical. We never get to see him use his powers except to create duplicates of himself. He doesn’t get the fancy wizard hands or the eyes-changing-colors-with-power, or anything that might hint that he’s one of the most powerful characters in the MCU [if not the most powerful] - but, I digress) and, because it’s not enough to make him seem magically inferior and physically less-than, they also need to delete the scenes which give the audience an opportunity to see him as sympathetic as well. 

Ragnarok is not the only film guilty of this, and it’s not the worst (that would be Infinity War, I’ll die on that hill), but it is the most blatant and the one where the director was most vocal about wanting to make sure Thor outshined Loki in every possible way. 

So while Taika didn’t come right out and say that this scene made Loki sympathetic in addition to clarifying the narrative so that we don’t just get Thor’s POV as the word-of-god, it’s heavily implied that Taika not wanting his audience to feel “too bummed out” includes not wanting them to feel sorry for Loki. After all, if the audience feels sorry for Loki, then there are more pegs to drag him down from.

As an aside, I don’t believe that the scene makes us feel too sorry for Odin. Yeah, it’s sad that he dies in an alley filled with trash, but symbolically, it’s a fitting death. Odin built his kingdom of gold on the backs of the worlds he ravaged. He collected a literal trophy room of stolen relics from conquered peoples. He sat upon his throne, both literally and figuratively looking down on everyone beneath him. The most powerful being in the Nine Realms - and, in the end, when it matters, he’s no better off than any random homeless person who dies in an alley in New York. 

Symbolically speaking, it’s a good way to really hammer home the narrative that colonialism is bad and should generally be avoided. This death gives Odin a smidgen of comeuppance. He’s degraded as he’s degraded so many others. He’s powerless, as he’s stripped power from so many others. He’s had a very long fall off of Sleipnir, and the narrative ought to truly show that. 

But, that aside, Taika leaves unspoken the second part of the reason: “Audiences felt bad for Odin and viewed Loki positively, and we couldn’t do that.” Because this scene does two things: it brings Odin down but it also elevates Loki at the expense of Odin. It elevates and symapthizes with Loki - at least in the canon narrative: 

As pointed out, Odin acknowledges and apologizes for how he’s wronged Loki. (Canon confirmation: Odin was a bad parent to Loki and therefore Odin played a role in Loki’s undoing.) 

Loki tells Thor that he stripped Odin of his memories but not his power. (Canon confirmation: Loki isn’t responsible for how Odin ended up here, nor is he responsible for Odin’s death.) 

Loki calls for the Bifrost because they’re out of options, and the scene contextualizes that. (Canon confirmation: Loki isn’t running scared, he’s making an effort for himself and Thor to regroup after Hela just destroyed Thor’s fucking hammer.) 

And so on. 

So, yes. I agree that the best scene to be included in the movie would have been a combination of this scene and the scene in Norway, because there were a lot of key character and narrative developments that were lost in this deletion, but the beautiful scenery (and the excellent point of how it’s one of the few times the film isn’t literally trash), the more composed Odin, etc. are strong points. 

I think that a good writer would have been able to balance the dialogue, the symbolism to support the themes, and the characterization with a scene that was ultimately satisfying for both the narrative and the overall story - but, yknow, here we are. 

I find the fact that MCU goes to such length to stop the audience from sympathizing with Loki laughable.

MCU: Loki has only one sentence in this four minute scene and less close-up shots than other characters. That wouldn’t be enough to invoke emotional reaction and sympathy in the audience.

Tom: *steals the scene*

MCU: *sighs* Delete and replace this scene and don’t give him any lines. Give him even less close-up shots and for the love of god, don’t focus that much on his eyes.

Tom: *still steals the scene with the little opportunities he has*

MCU: goddammit! Kill the character in the worst possible way before the movie even starts. I don’t care if it traumatize his fans. They deserve it for not liking who we want them to like.

Tom: *steals the whole movie*

Fans: *screaming* Where is Loki?

MCU: *ugly sobbing* Just give him his own show!

Tom: Ehehehehehe

“oh…cool.”