The jesus Birther Movement (jBM)

This is the 8th article of our 12 part research:

Debunking the Fraudulent christian Apologist List of Extra-biblical but non-contemporary, claimed “sources” used as jesus “evidence.” (Jewish, “Pagan,” Non-christian, “Secular”)

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtmt2ygH

Lucian was a Syrian Greek writer of satire, famous for his humorous dialogues.

(125 CE – after 180 CE)

Born 92 years after jesus supposedly died. 

Satire is the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues. Synonyms: mockery, ridicule, derision, scorn, caricature

Few details of Lucian's life can be verified with any degree of accuracy; this includes the dates of his birth and death.

"One is entirely dependent on Lucian’s writings for information about his life, but he says little about himself—and not all that he says is to be taken seriously." ~Britannica

He claimed to have been born in Samosata.

"Of the 80 prose works traditionally attributed to Lucian, about 10 are spurious." ~Britannica

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/350566/Lucian

Wrote in 170 CE, 137 years after jesus supposedly died.

Lucian never mentions jesus. (Many apologists dishonestly fail to acknowledge and disclose this fact.)

The text used to claim that Lucian refers to jesus is from a play, poking fun at christians.

The Passing of Peregrinus is not a documentation of historical events. It is a satire and work of fiction, by the play writer Lucian, in which the lead character takes advantage of the generosity of the Christian religious group.

The text is only describing what Christians of the time believe in. It is not, by any means, suggesting that those beliefs were true.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passing_of_Peregrinus

The Passing of Peregrinus recounts the life of a man named Peregrinus, who was so determined to establish a new religious cult to himself that he committed suicide at the Olympic Games in 165 CE by self-immolation. Lucian, an eyewitness to this event, depicts Peregrinus as a glory-obsessed impostor who began his career as an adulterer, pederast, and parricide before becoming a leader of the Christian Church, a Cynic philosopher, and an aspiring “divine guardian of the night.”

Christian apologists claim that the main character: Peregrinus, of Lucian’s satire play, is actually jesus. They claim that his fiction, mocking christians, is evidence of a historical jesus.

~Here is the text in question: The Passing of Peregrinus or The Death of Peregrinus

11

 It was now that he came across the priests and scribes of the Christians, in Palestine, and picked up their queer creed. I can tell you, he pretty soon convinced them of his superiority; prophet, elder, ruler of the Synagogue--he was everything at once; expounded their books, commented on them, wrote books himself. They took him for a God, accepted his laws, and declared him their president. The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day,--the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account. Well, the end of it was that Proteus was arrested and thrown into prison.

 12

 This was the very thing to lend an air to his favourite arts of clap-trap and wonder-working; he was now a made man. The Christians took it all very seriously: he was no sooner in prison, than they began trying every means to get him out again,--but without success. Everything else that could be done for him they most devoutly did. They thought of nothing else. Orphans and ancient widows might be seen hanging about the prison from break of day. Their officials bribed the gaolers to let them sleep inside with him. Elegant dinners were conveyed in; their sacred writings were read; and our old friend Peregrine (as he was still called in those days) became for them "the modern Socrates."

 13

 In some of the Asiatic cities, too, the Christian communities put themselves to the expense of sending deputations, with offers of sympathy, assistance, and legal advice. The activity of these people, in dealing with any matter that affects their community, is something extraordinary; they spare no trouble, no expense. Peregrine, all this time, was making quite an income on the strength of his bondage; money came pouring in. You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on trust, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property. Now an adroit, unscrupulous fellow, who has seen the world, has only to get among these simple souls, and his fortune is pretty soon made; he plays with them.

 14

 'To return, however, to Peregrine. The governor of Syria perceived his mental warp: "he must make a name, though he die for it:" now philosophy was the governor's hobby; he discharged him--wouldn't hear of his being punished--and Peregrine returned to Armenia. He found it too hot to hold him. He was threatened from all quarters with prosecutions for parricide. Then again, the greater part of his property had disappeared in his absence: nothing was left but the land, which might be worth a matter of four thousand pounds. The whole estate, as the old man left it, would come perhaps to eight thousand. Theagenes was talking nonsense when he said a million odd. Why, the whole city, with its five nearest neighbours thrown in, men, cattle, and goods of every description , would never fetch that sum.

 15

 --Meanwhile, indictments and accusations were brewing: an attack might be looked for at any moment: as for the common people, they were in a state of furious indignation and grief at the foul butchery of a harmless old man; for so he was described. In these trying circumstances, observe the ingenuity and resource of the sagacious Proteus. He makes his appearance in the assembly: his hair (even in these early days) is long, his cloak is shabby; at his side is slung the philosopher's wallet, his hand grasps the philosopher's staff; truly a tragic figure, every inch of him. Thus equipped, he presents himself before the public, with the announcement that the property left him by his father of blessed memory is entirely at their disposal! Being a needy folk, with a keen eye to charity, they received the information with ready applause: "Here is true philosophy; true patriotism; the spirit of Diogenes and Crates is here!" As for his enemies, they were dumb; and if any one did venture an allusion to parricide, he was promptly stoned.

 16

 'Proteus now set out again on his wanderings. The Christians were meat and drink to him; under their protection he lacked nothing, and this luxurious state of things went on for some time. At last he got into trouble even with them; I suppose they caught him partaking of some of their forbidden meats. They would have nothing more to do with him, and he thought the best way out of his difficulties would be, to change his mind about that property, and try and get it back. He accordingly sent in a petition to the emperor, suing for its restitution. But as the people of Parium sent up a deputation to remonstrate, nothing came of it all; he was told that as he had been under no compulsion in making his dispositions, he must abide by them.

 To read 1-45 of the play:

 http://lucianofsamosata.info/TheDeathOfPeregrine.html

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/lucian/peregrinus.htm

~What is the oldest surviving copy of The Passing of Peregrinus?

Vaticanus 90 (G), 9/10th century. Harleianus 5694 (E), 9/10th century. Laurentianus C. S. 77 (F), 10th century. Marcianus 434 (W), 10/11th century. Mutinensis 193 (S), 10th century. Laurentianus 57, 51(L), 11th century 

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/lucian/lucian_intro.htm

Lucian, as evidence for jesus is so poor and absurd that very few people who know that jesus is fictional, have even addressed the christian apologist claims. The ONLY people who dishonestly claim or attempt to connect Lucian’s writing with jesus, are christian apologists.

One of the main reasons why anyone today reads Lucian is to see his passages on the Christians and Jesus. Although Lucian's view on the Christians and Jesus comprises a very small part of his ouevre, it still is given prominence considering that it is one of the earliest written references of the Christian sect and Jesus. While a lot of websites and articles out there like to try to probe Lucian's account for historical accuracies about Jesus, there a few problems with this viewpoint.

1. Lucian was a satirist whose main objective is to delight his audience even if the references to the Christians and Jesus are contained in a personal letter to a friend. Lucian still tried to impress his friends as seen in Alexander and How to Write History amongst other letters. Lucian was not dead-set on exposing or demonstrating how monstrous the Christian sect was. He just tried to show that they are like any other religious or social group in that they can be lampooned and exposed. Lucian's work Alexander is a long tract on exactly this sort of thing. But Alexander was some sort of Neo-Pythagorean so his lampooning doesn't hold much prominence with today's audiences even though it is extremely scathing while the critique of the Christians is fairly tame.

2. The evidence for the Christians is not exactly straight from Lucian's mouth. The speech in which the reference is made is given by a character in the dialogue. Lucian liked to play-act with his characters and it is perfectly reasonable that he personally had little antipathy for the Christian sect, but the interlocutor in the dialogue did. A good example of this sort of interlocutor based conversation would be Shakespeare. Shakespeare created characters that were meant to be truthful to the speaker and were not necessarily Shakespeare's own beliefs.

3. The interlocutor is identified as a man who wishes to reflect on Proteus' (the man who was with the Christians) laughable side. The subsequent speech is meant to be tongue in cheek. Would a modern audience take someone doing improv 100% seriously, or would they think that their descriptions and representations were a little skewed? So why should this man's speech be taken at face value and 100% seriously?

4. Lucian by no means was an expert on Christianity. If we take his writings at face value, his insights into Christianity could be bunk considering that he was not well versed in their teachings. Knowing things from hearsay is much different than actually being a member of a group. If anything, Lucian's writings expose any prejudices that may have existed concerning the Christians and Jesus not actual facts about them. For actual viewpoints of Christians it is best to stay with reading the texts written by the Christians themselves. Lucian does confirm the Christians and Jesus, but how much of Lucian's view can be taken to be accurate?

http://lucianofsamosata.info/wiki/doku.php?id=2013:why-lucians-view-of-the-christians-and-jesus-is-indeterminate

~Rook Hawkins, from rationalresponders.com does a great retort:

 Regardless of the fact that this is NOT AN EYEWITNESS ACCOUNT BUT WRITTEN OVER 120 YEARS AFTER THE SUPPOSED DEATH OF JESUS, nowhere in any of his writings does Lucian mention the man's name, or the cult he brought into the world.

 This is a SPECIAL PLEADING argument by Christians; we are too ASSUME he is talking about Jesus. Except that THOUSANDS of people were crucified in Palestine, and many of these men were known to start new religions, especially around the time of Lucian. Palestine covers an area roughly hundreds of miles from north to south and east to west, it spreads from north of Damascus to the far south, past Masada and the Dead Sea. The ONLY thing this proves is that a man was killed because he started a cult.

 Lucian does not name specifically the crucified figure as Jesus Christ. This whole argument is now bunk because it depends on Special Pleading. The plea is that we accept that Lucian is talking about Jesus of Nazareth, but clearly it isn’t certain.

 He does speak a LOT about Christians, in fact he ridicules them! He believes rather thoroughly that Christianity is a scam. Lucian satirized the Christians in his Passing of Peregrines, a story of a philosopher sage who at one point becomes a leader of the Christians to take advantage of their gullibility. His last statement says it all, “So any adroit, unscrupulous fellow, who knows the world, has only to get among these simple souls and his fortune is quickly made; he plays with them.”

 In fact, when he states, “It was then that he learned the wondrous lore of the Christians, by associating with their priests and scribes in Palestine. And—how else could it be?—in a trice he made them all look like children, for he was prophet, cult-leader, head of the synagogue, and everything, all by himself. He interpreted and explained some of their books and even composed many, and they revered him as a god, made use of him as a lawgiver, and set him down as a protector….” He is speaking of his character he concocted, the sage philosopher, who the Christians worshiped and took on as their God, and who was better then all their (the Christians) scribes and priests.

 What is more amusing about your non-researched speculation is that you seem to think Lucian has some sort of knowledge concerning the existence of Jesus, where in fact it’s just not true. Even other Christian’s admit to such.

 As Jeffery Jay Lowder, author of Josh McDowell’s “Evidence” for Jesus: Is It Reliable?, writes concerning Lucian:

 “Nevertheless, given that Lucian's statement was written near the end of the second century, it seems rather unlikely that he had independent sources of information concerning the historicity of Jesus. Lucian may have relied upon Christian sources, common knowledge, or even an earlier pagan reference (e.g., Tacitus); since Lucian does not specify his sources, we will never know. Just as is the case with Tacitus, it is quite plausible that Lucian would have simply accepted the Christian claim that their founder had been crucified. (Take into account that Lowder is making the same plea. He also believes in the historicity of Christ)

 He states, in his conclusion as well, “Pliny the Younger, Tacitus, and Lucian are not independent witnesses to the historicity of Jesus.” Regardless of what references are made AFTER the fact, he’s not an eye-witness ergo he CANNOT be used to prove the existence of Jesus. He wasn’t even a CONTEMPORARY!

 So we have two main problems associated with Lucian:

 1. Lucian was NOT a contemporary or eye-witness.

 2. Lucian does NOT mention Jesus

 The whole argument for Lucian is bunk. And the fact that it’s only a slight mention, if but two sentences, really doesn’t help your case.

 Some Christians claim:

 "...but Lucian clearly was talking of who the Christians worshipped."

 So it proved the Christians worshipped somebody. Who’s arguing that point? This is irrelevant.

 Some Christians claim:

 "He was also describing the teachings of Christianity (brothers at the time of conversion) and the conversion involved the denial of Greek gods and living according to His teaching."

 This is as I stated above Lucian’s reference to the Christians reaction to HIS CHARACTER, Peregrines! This is a failure on their part, because they probably just went to some Christian site, copied the butchered text, and pasted it as if that was all Lucian wrote in his entire life. Where in fact these statements they claim are applied to Jesus are actually about a man named Peregrines who:

 “for a time in his early life went over to Christianity, practicing it to the point of imprisonment under a very tolerant administration, and after returning to Cynicism became in his old age so enamored of Indic ideas and precedents that he cremated himself at Olympia, just after the games of A.D. 165, even as Calanus had done at Susa in the presence of Alexander the Great and as Zarmarus had done at Athens, after initiation into the mysteries, in the presence of Augustus.” ~H.M. Harmon (Lucian of Samosata : The Passing of Peregrines)

 It should be noted too, that Josephus talks a lot about crucifixion in his works. In the 120+ years that passed between Jesus' supposed existence and Lucian, thousands upon thousands were crucified in Palestine. In fact, in just one year, multitudes numbering 500 in one day, sometimes more, were sent to be crucified during the seige in 70 CE.

 "...before they died, and were then crucified before the wall of the city. This miserable procedure made Titus greatly to pity them, while they caught every day five hundred Jews; nay, some days they caught more: yet it did not appear to be safe for him to let those that were taken by force go their way, and to set a guard over so many he saw would be to make such as great deal them useless to him. The main reason why he did not forbid that cruelty was this, that he hoped the Jews might perhaps yield at that sight, out of fear lest they might themselves afterwards be liable to the same cruel treatment. So the soldiers, out of the wrath and hatred they bore the Jews, nailed those they caught, one after one way, and another after another, to the crosses, by way of jest, when their multitude was so great, that room was wanting for the crosses, and crosses wanting for the bodies." (War 5: Chapter 11)

 To claim that the one man who was crucified is your savior is incredulous. So many myths were flying around the time of Lucian it is impossible really to name them all. So many "saviors" crucified. And since Christ more have followed. Whether they be of the Chrestians and Christians, or of false prophets that are known to us such as Alexander and his followers (Also written by Lucian).

 Incidentally...Alexander was claiming to be the son of Zeus (hm) and he was a sage, and an oracle. He performed miracles that Lucian mocked:

 "As a matter of fact, this trick, to a man like you, and if it is not out of place to say so, like myself also, was obvious and easy to see through, but to those driveling idiots it was miraculous and almost as good as incredible."

 "Well, as I say, Alexander made predictions and gave oracles, employing great shrewdness in it and combining guesswork with his trickery. He gave responses that were sometimes obscure and am­biguous, sometimes downright unintelligible, for this seemed to him in the oracular manner. Some people he dissuaded or encouraged as seemed best to him at a guess. To others he prescribed medical treatments and diets, knowing, as I said in the beginning, many useful remedies."

 "By now he was even sending men abroad to create rumours in the different nations in regard to the oracle and to say that he made predictions, discovered fugitive slaves, detected thieves and robbers, caused treasures to be dug up, healed the sick, and in some cases had actually raised the dead. " (sound familiar yet?)

 http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the_historical_existence_of_Jesus_Christ#Lucian

 http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/2889

~Forgeries attributed to Lucian

Lucian almost certainly did not write all of the more than eighty works attributed to him — declamations, essays both laudatory and sarcastic, satiric epigrams, and comic dialogues and symposia with a satirical cast, studded with quotations in alarming contexts and allusions set in an unusual light, designed to be surprising and provocative. His name added luster to any entertaining and sarcastic essay: over 150 surviving manuscripts attest to his continued popularity.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/a-true-story-by-lucian-of-samosata-lucian-of-samosata/1104697779

"Most of his writings were produced between 160 and 185, but it is difficult to date them accurately."

http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/lucian.htm

There is debate over the authorship of some works transmitted under Lucian's name, such as De Dea Syria ("On the Syrian goddess"), the Amores and the Ass. These are usually not considered genuine works of Lucian and normally cited under the name of Pseudo-Lucian.

The Macrobii, which is devoted to longevity, has been attributed to Lucian, although it is generally agreed that he was not the author. It gives some mythical examples like that of Nestor who lived three generations or Tiresias, the blind seer of Thebes, who lived six generations. It tells about the Seres (Chinese) "who are said to live 300 years" or the people of Athos, "who are also said to live 130 years"

"Of the 80 prose works traditionally attributed to Lucian, about 10 are spurious." ~Britannica

"Philopatris, a direct attack on Christianity, was long attributed to Lucian, but it probably dates from the time of Julian the Apostate (cAD 331-363)." ~Kirjasto

"Fifty or so epigrams are attributed to Lucian in the Anthologia Graeca, a collection of poems from the Ancient and Byzantine periods of Greek Literature." ~Kirjasto

Since we have no original works of Lucian and it has been discovered that there have been forgeries attributed to him, it is very possible that The Passing of Peregrinus is also a christian forgery.

"The writings of Lucian are outstanding for...critique of the shams and follies of the literature, philosophy, and intellectual life of his day.Lucian satirized almost every aspect of human behaviour." ~Britannica

"He blended prose and verse, high and low styles, moving easily from the Platonic dialogue to Menippean satire within the same work. His basic invention was to transform a serious philosophical dialogue into a vehicle of mockery." ~Kirjasto

Other human frailties Lucian satirized are the folly of bargaining with the gods by sacrifices, crying over spilt milk when bereaved, and the love of telling or listening to strange tales. ~Britannica

 He anticipated "modern" fictional themes like voyages to the moon and Venus, extraterrestrial life and wars between planets, nearly two millennia before Jules Verne and H. G. Wells. His novel is widely regarded as an early, if not the earliest science fiction work.

 In his dialogue entitled Saturnalia he describes the Roman festival of Saturnalia and it's observance. The ancient saturnalia were integrated in Christianity in the 4th century AD, as a means to mass convert the pagan roman citizens.

 In "True History," it starts by warning the reader that its events are completely untrue and impossible.

 Lucian follows the lead of Xenophanes, Plato, and others also in complaining about the absurd beliefs concerning the Olympian gods. Thus the discreditable love affairs of Zeus with mortal women play a prominent part in Dialogues of the Gods, and in Zeus Confuted and Tragic Zeus the leader of the gods is powerless to intervene on earth and prove his omnipotence to coldly skeptical Cynic and Epicurean philosophers. ~Britannica

 Lucian’s best work in the field of literary criticism is his treatise How to Write History. In this work he stresses the impartiality, detachment, and rigorous devotion to truth that characterize the ideal historian. ~Britannica

 Lucian took the side reason against superstition and mysticism, he mocked authors who used archaic style, ridiculed charlatans and philosophers, and parodied the fantastic and fanciful travel stories of earlier writers, such as the Greek historian Herodotus. In How to Write History, a treatise on historiography, which dates around 166-68, Lucian makes a distinction between history and rhetoric, and emphasizes truthfulness – "The historian's one task is to tell the thing as it happened."

 True History (Alethes historia), in which the narrator visits the Moon, Lucian satirized the myths of Homer and utopian societies, starting the story by declaring that "as I have no truth to put on record, having lived a very humdrum life, I fall back on falsehood – but falsehood of a more consistent variety; for I now make the only true statement you are to expect – that I am a liar. " The notes that the female sex is unknown; men marry men and reproduce unisexually. "But what is far more surprising, there is amongst them a singular species of men, called Dendrites, and which are produced in this manner. They plant the testicle of a man into the ground ; from whence by insensible degrees springs up a large fleshy tree, having the form of a phallus, with branches and leaves, and bearing an acorn-like fruit an ell in length." After returning back to Earth, the narrator with his party is swallowed by a gigantic whale. He manages to escape and has then adventures on islands. Also in the dialogue Icaromenippus Lucian's hero acquires a pair of wings and flies to the Moon.

 In spite of Lucian's anti-Christian reputation, his writings survived the bonfires of the Church. In the 15th and 16th century Lucien enjoyed a wide popularity and his works were printed in many editions.

 For further reading:

 Jennifer Hall, Lucian’s Satire (1981)

Graham Anderson, Studies in Lucian’s Comic Fiction (1976)

 “It should be noted that the miracles attributed to Jesus are not unique. The same types of miracles stories are current around his time. We know this for a fact because a Greek satirist, Lucian of Somasota, who lived around AD120 to 200 wrote a book poking fun at contemporary tales of the miraculous. In his book, aptly called Philopseudes (Lover of Lies), Lucian tells of the gathering of philosophers in Eucrates' house one day when he was ill. There they exchanged the most amazing miracle stories. We hear about the sick man who carries his bed on his back; of the man who walks on water and revives putrefying corpses; and of the sorcerer who can talk to the evil spirit possessing a man, threaten him and finally cast him out. Anyone who has familiarity with the miracle stories of the gospels will notice the similarity between these two groups of accounts.” ~ rejectionofpascalswager

 “Miraculous healings were also commonplace. Suetonius, another biographer writing a generation after Plutarch, reports that even the emperor Vespasian once cured the blind and lame (Life of Vespasian 7.13; this "power" being attributed to the god Serapis--incidentally the Egyptian counterpart to Asclepius; cf. also Tacitus, Histories 4.81). Likewise, statues with healing powers were common attractions for sick people of this era. Lucian mentions the famous healing powers of a statue of Polydamas, an athlete, at Olympia, as well as the statue of Theagenes at Thasos (Council of the Gods 12). Both are again mentioned by Pausanias, in his "tour guide" of the Roman world (6.5.4-9, 11.2-9). Lucian also mentions the curative powers of the statue of a certain General Pellichos (Philopseudes 18-20). And Athenagoras, in his Legatio pro Christianis (26), polemicizes against the commonplace belief in the healing powers of statues, mentioning, in addition to the statue of a certain Neryllinus, the statues of Proteus and Alexander, the same two men I discuss in detail below.” ~Richard Carrier

 Lucian, a critic of superstition, was the first, writing in the mid-2nd century, and likely getting his information from Christian sources. So the evidence is not what any historian would consider good. ~Richard Carrier

 The exception proves the rule: we have no real parallels for what Lucian did in his story Alexander the False Prophet, and even that was a matter of coincidence: Lucian, by chance a keen-minded Epicurean and prolific and talented writer, just happened upon the scene of a new pagan cult as it was beginning. Similar coincidence drove him to write skeptically on The Death of Peregrinus (both are available in Lionel Casson's Selected Satires of Lucian, 1968). ~Richard Carrier

 The satirist Lucian of Samosata who relates a discussion he had with a Celt regarding the demi-god Herakles (Hercules): "The Celts call Heracles Ogmios in their native tongue, and they portray the god in a very peculiar way. To their notion, he is extremely old, bald-headed, except for a few lingering hairs which are quite grey, his skin is wrinkled, and he is burned as black as can be, like an old sea-dog. You would think him a Charon or a sub-Tartarean Iapetus — anything but Heracles! Yet, in spite of his looks, he has the equipment of Heracles: he is dressed in the lion's skin, has the club in his right hand, carries the quiver at his side, displays the bent bow in his left, and is Heracles from head to heel as far as that goes. I thought, therefore, that the Celts had committed this offence against the good-looks of Heracles to spite the Greek gods, and that they were punishing by means of the picture for having once visited their country on a cattle-lifting foray, at the time when he raided most of the western nations in his quest of the herds of Geryon."etc etc. (rest on link)

 http://www.celtnet.org.uk/gods_o/ogmios.html

 The satirist Lucian of Samosata who relates a discussion he had with a Celt regarding the demi-god Herakles (Hercules): "The Celts call Heracles Ogmios in their native tongue, and they portray the god in a very peculiar way. To their notion, he is extremely old, bald-headed, except for a few lingering hairs which are quite grey, his skin is wrinkled, and he is burned as black as can be, like an old sea-dog. You would think him a Charon or a sub-Tartarean Iapetus — anything but Heracles! Yet, in spite of his looks, he has the equipment of Heracles: he is dressed in the lion's skin, has the club in his right hand, carries the quiver at his side, displays the bent bow in his left, and is Heracles from head to heel as far as that goes. I thought, therefore, that the Celts had committed this offence against the good-looks of Heracles to spite the Greek gods, and that they were punishing by means of the picture for having once visited their country on a cattle-lifting foray, at the time when he raided most of the western nations in his quest of the herds of Geryon."etc etc. (rest on link)

 http://www.celtnet.org.uk/gods_o/ogmios.html

 More about Lucian and Hercules on this link:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_History

 ~The Way to Write History

 Lucian wrote "The Way to Write History." It was aimed toward historians. Christian apologists try to claim that his aspirations toward historians being accurate, has to apply to Lucian’s own fictional plays and satires.

 Lucian was not a historian and he knew almost nothing about christian beliefs.

 Here are 2 examples of this nonsense:

 ~Tektonics Apologetic Ministries:

 One of Lucian's lesser-known works is a letter-formatted treatise entitled "The Way to Write History,"

 Lucian was very concerned with historical accuracy! Consider these quotes from that same work [Fowl.LucSam, 126, 128] :

 "History...abhors the intrusion of any least scruple of falsehood; it is like the windpipe, which the doctors tell us will not tolerate a morsel of stray food."

 "The historian's one task is to tell the thing as it happened."

 "(The historian) must sacrifice to no God but Truth; he must neglect all else; his sole rule and unerring guide is this - to think not of those who are listening to him now, but of the yet unborn who shall seek his converse."

 On the other hand, Lucian also clearly disdains those who do not write good history, or who filled in the gaps of their histories with invented material. Consider one subject of his satire, Thucydides, who, following the ancient historical practice of "speech-in-character," (i.e., creating appropriate words for someone to say on a certain occassion, not knowing what it is that they actually said), formulated a funeral oratory for a centurion named Afranius. Of that oratory, Lucian writes (ibid., 122):

 "...the flood of rhetoric which follows is so copious and remarkable that it drew tears from me - ye Graces! - tears of laughter; most of all where the elegant Afranius, drawing to a close, makes mention, with weeping and distressful moans, of all those costly dinners and toasts. But he is a very Ajax in his conclusion. He draws his sword, gallantly as an Afranius should, and in sight of all cuts his throat over the grave - and God knows it was high time for an execution, if oratory can be a felony."

 Lucian, then, clearly held historical accuracy in high esteem.

 (Lucian) was a “major figure in a literary movement of his time,”

 - there is good reason to believe that he would not acknowledge the existence of Jesus if there were any doubt in his mind that Jesus actually existed. He would certainly have satirized Christian belief in a fictional or historically doubtful personage mercilessly, if any such arguments existed at the time.

 Finally, he was in a good position to have known of such issues, being that he moved in the most educated of circles and very likely corresponded and consulted with leading figures of his day.

 In short, Lucian was a person who was "in a position to know"

 http://www.tektonics.org/jesusexist/lucian.html#independent

~DOXA the half-literate christian Apologist Website:

He wrote "The Passing of Peregrinus" about a cynic who comes to join the ranks of the Christians, takes advantage of them, and than leaves to go back to his former philosphy. [Alli.Luc,99]

 The hero of the tale, Peregrinus, was a Cynic philosopher who became a Christian, rose in prominence in the Christian community, then returned to Cynicism. Lucian's attack is not so much on Christianity, but on the person of Peregrinus, who took advantage of the Christians' simplicity and gullibility. 

He doens't mention Jesus by name, but this is clealry who he means.Note the phrasing, "the man who was crucified in Palestine..." As if to say "You know, that guy we have all heard about..." He clearly assumes common knowlege of the story, at least in essence on the part of his audience.

 One might be tempted to supposse that Lucian was merely writting a play, it's all fiction. Who would know or care if he got something wrong, so he didn't bother to check his facts. But this is contrary to everything we know about Lucian. 

 He was a maticulous scholar, he loved history and insisted that the historian adhere strictly to the facts. In fact, he was almost religious in his devotion to the facts! A letter he wrote to his friend Philo demonstrates. The letter is in the form of a treatise entitled "The Way to Write History."

 http://www.doxa.ws/Jesus_pages/HistJesus6.html

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Replacing the fraudulent-commercial images of je$u$ with truthful ones

This is the 7th article of our 12 part research:

Debunking the Fraudulent christian Apologist List of Extra-biblical but non-contemporary, claimed “sources” used as jesus “evidence.” (Jewish, “Pagan,” Non-christian, “Secular”)

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Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus

When did he live?

(71-135 CE, livius.org)

(70-135, biography.yourdictionary.com)

(69-after 122, britannica.com)

I will average his birth to 70 CE, which means he was born 37 years after jesus supposedly died.

He is mainly remembered as the author of De Vita Caesarum—translated as The Life of the Caesars.

It is claimed that the ‘Lives of the Twelve Caesars’ was written in 121 CE (88 years after jesus supposedly died)

It is ironic that Suetonius almost wrote 20 books in his life and out of all those books, christian apologists try to claim that he wrote ONE SINGLE sentence about jesus:

"As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, [Claudius] expelled them from Rome." ~Life of Claudius 25.4

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Suetonius/12Caesars/Claudius*.html

Suetonius' reference is not about any jesus -- he says the "chrestus" in question was a real person living in Rome making disturbances. And again, not possibly an eyewitness to any real jesus, as he wasn't alive.

The existence of people called Christians, does not prove that Jesus was the incarnation of the desert God Yahweh, any more than the existence of Harry Potter fans proves the existence of house elves. ~Hally M

~The oldest manuscript copy of Suetonius’ “Lives of the 12 Caesars” (820 CE)

This work is now lost but was used as a source by the anonymous autor of the Historia Augusta, a fourth-century collection of imperial biographies. Much later, in the ninth century, a courtier of Charlemagne named Einhard wrote a biography of his emperor, closely following the model of Suetonius.

http://www.livius.org/su-sz/suetonius/suetonius.html

Few perhaps are aware that it has reached us only in an incomplete form.  The opening pages of the work are missing in all the handwritten copies that we now have.  It seems that only a single copy from ancient times, now lost, made it into the 9th century

http://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/2011/11/18/the-lost-preface-to-suetonius-lives-of-the-12-caesars/

The oldest surviving text is referred to as M or Codex Memmianus (or Paris, lat. 6115), the oldest extant manuscript, written at Tours ca. 820 and apparently with no direct descendants. By direct descendants, it means that they are no other manuscripts that follow or descend from it.

 http://blogs.transparent.com/latin/monthly-latin-spotlight-text-12-caesars/

 The oldest surviving manuscript is the most important. It comes from the the early ninth century and it's now in Paris ("Paris.lat. 6115").

 Traditionally it's called "Memmianus" (M) from its sixteenth-century owner, Henri de Mesmes. M was written at Tours (France) about 820.(Although over 200 manuscripts are extant, "De vita Caesarum" seems to have survived into the ninth century in a single manuscript, since lost. The surviving manuscripts are traditionallyy diveded into two classes, usally designated X and Z (M is member of the X-family).

 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.classics/5fD_26bk5k0

 ~DM Murdock/Acharya S

 Pliny, Tacitus and Suetonius: No Proof of Jesus

 http://www.truthbeknown.com/pliny.htm

 Does Suetonius refer to Jesus?

 http://freethoughtnation.com/does-suetonius-refer-to-jesus/

 Is Suetonius's Chresto a Reference to Jesus?

 http://www.truthbeknown.com/suetoniuschresto.html

 ~Kenneth Humphreys - jesusneverexisted.com

 Nowhere in any of Suetonius's writings does he mention 'Jesus of Nazareth.' Suetonius did write a biography called Twelve Caesars around the year 112 AD and of Emperor Claudius he says:

 "As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of one Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome."

 Jesus in Rome in 54 AD? Of course not. But the unwary can be misled by this reference.

 'Chrestus' does not equate to 'Christ' in English but to 'the good' in Greek (and for a definitive study of the manuscript evidence see here). It was a name used by both slaves and freemen and is attested more than eighty times in Latin inscriptions. Clearly, Suetonius was explaining why the Jews (not Christians) were expelled from Rome and is referring to a Jewish agitator in the 50s – not to a Galilean pacifist of the 30s. Yet even this report is questionable.

 Suetonius famously confirms the expulsion as a consequence of "disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus" (a phrase often paraded as one of the classic "evidences for an historical Jesus"!). But the Suetonius reference is suspect. The historian, Cassius Dio gives a more convincing report of the same Claudian "expulsion":

"As for the Jews, who had again increased so greatly that by reason of their multitude it would have been hard without raising a tumult to bar them from the city, he did not drive them out, but ordered them, while continuing their traditional mode of life, not to hold meetings." – Roman History, 60.6.

 http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/greek-odyssey.htm#claudius

 It is also said that Suetonius, in his Life of Nero, described Nero's persecution of the Christians:

 'Punishments were also inflicted on the Christians, a sect professing a new and mischievous religious belief ...' (16.2)

 We have moved from 'rebellious Jews' to 'mischievous Christians'.

 BUT WAIT A MINUTE:

 Christians in Rome during the reign of Nero (54-68 AD) ?

 Would (could) Nero have made such a fine sectarian distinction – particularly since there was no identifying faith document (not a single gospel had been written) – so just what would 'Christians' have believed?

 Even St Paul himself makes not a single reference to 'Christians' in any of his writings.

 The idea that a nascent ‘Christianity’ immediately faced persecution from a cruel and bloodthirsty pagan Rome is an utter nonsense. For one thing, it is only in the last third of the 1st century AD, that Christ-followers emerged as a separate faction from mainstream Judaism. Until then they remained protected under Roman law as Jews. The irritation they caused to their more orthodox brethren meant nothing to the pagan magistrates. Says Gibbon:

 "The innocence of the first Christians was protected by ignorance and contempt; and the tribunal of the Pagan magistrate often proved the most assured refuge against the fury of the synagogue."

 Early Christ-followers called themselves 'saints', 'brethren', 'Brothers of the Lord' and their critics used various names: Nazoreans, Ebionites, 'God fearers', atheists. The Jewish association remained strong throughout the first century and when Christian sects got going in Rome in the second century they were identified by their rival leaders – Valentinians, Basilidians, Marcionites, etc.

 So little were Christ-worshippers known in the Roman world that as late as the 90s Dio Cassio refers to 'atheists' and 'those adopting Jewish manners'. Christians as a distinct group from the Jews appear only late in the 1st century, not long before the Jewish curse on heretics at the council of Jamnia (around 85 AD). The label 'Christian' itself only appears with the 2nd century Acts – with the story that the term 'began in Antioch' (11.26).

 Equally odd, is that *Suetonius's isolated sentence* appears in a section on Nero's 'good points.'

 http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/corinth1.html#refugee

 It should also be noted that Suetonius does not associate punishment of the Christians with the fire that swept Rome, a crucial part of the later myth.

 Quite simply, the reference is a Christian forgery, added to Suetonius to backup the work of the 5th century forger Sulpicius Severus, who heavily doctored the work of another Roman historian – Tacitus – with a lurid tale of brutal persecution ('torched Christian martyrs') which immortalized Nero as the first Antichrist in the eyes of the Christian church (the second Antichrist being the reformist Luther).

 http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/josephus-etal.html

~Rosa Rubicondior

Nowhere does Seutonius mention Jesus by name and never refers to Jesus of Nazareth or Jesus Christ. Some Christians have claimed, with no basis whatsoever, that 'Chrestus' was a mistake and meant 'Christ'. Crestus is a name which simply means 'good' and was in common usage at that time in Rome, but even if it wasa mistake, 'Christ' could have meant the expected Messiah of the Jews of Rome. Suetonius also recorded that the body of Caesar Augustus rose bodily into heaven when he died. Few historians regard that as factual, least of all Christian ones. As historical proofs go, this is a great example of something that, well... isn't.

http://rosarubicondior.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/the-historical-evidence-for-jesus.html#Suetonius

~Scott Oser

 In his The Lives of the Caesars, Suetonius, writing around 120 CE, states:

 "Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [Emperor Claudius in 49 CE] expelled them from Rome." (Claudius 5.25.4)

Occasionally this passage is cited as evidence for Jesus's historicity. However, there are serious problems with this interpretation:

 "Chrestus" is the correct Latin form of an actual Greek name, and is not obviously a mispelling of "Christus", meaning Christ.

 The passage seems to imply that there was actually someone named Chrestus at Rome at the time. This rules out a reference to Jesus.

 Even if Suetonius is referring to Christians in Rome, this only confirms the existence of Christians, not the existence of Jesus. There is no doubt that there were Christians in Rome during the first century CE--this of course does NOT imply that Jesus actually lived during the first half of this century.

 Thus, Suetonius fails to confirm the historicity of Jesus.

 http://infidels.org/library/modern/scott_oser/hojfaq.html

 ~skeptically.org

In his Lives of the Caesars, Suetonius, writing around 120 CE, states:

 Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [Emperor Claudius in 49 CE] expelled them from Rome.' (Claudius 5.25.4)

 Occasionally this passage is cited as evidence for Jesus's historicity. However, there are serious problems with this interpretation. 'Chrestus' is the correct Latin form of an actual Greek name, and is not obviously a mispelling of 'Christus', meaning Christ. The passage seems to imply that there was actually someone named Chrestus at Rome at the time. This rules out a reference to Jesus. Even if Suetonius is referring to Christians in Rome, this only confirms the existence of Christians, not the existence of Jesus.

There is no doubt that there were Christians in Rome during the first century CE but this of course does not imply that Jesus actually lived during the first half of this century. Thus, Suetonius fails to confirm the historicity of Jesus.

 (2) Suetonius

 In the case of 'Chrestus' mentioned by Suetonius in Life of the Caesars, the word is not, despite the claims made, another spelling of Christus. 'Chrestus' means 'The Good' in Greek, while 'Christus' means 'The Messiah'. Chrestus was not an uncommon name in ancient Rome. Since Jesus was admittedly not in Rome instigating the Jews, we are almost definitely talking about someone other than Jesus here. I should mention that the entire relevant quotation from Suetonius which is involved here reads as follows: ';As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of one Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome'. The 'he' is Claudius. No Christian will suggest that Jesus was at Rome in 55 CE, when this incident is alleged to have occurred. It is also difficult to see why Jews would be led by Jesus. That is pretty strong evidence that this passage does not refer to Jesus of Nazareth at all, and so is irrelevant to the discussion of whether Jesus ever lived. We can, however, add the lack of a mention of Jesus in Suetonius to our list of 'negative' evidence for the existence of Jesus as an historical person.

 http://www.skeptically.org/newtestament/id22.html

 ~Jeffery Jay Lowder: Josh McDowell's "Evidence" for Jesus, is it Reliable?

 It is unclear that Suetonius knew of Jesus. Suetonius, the Roman historian and biographer formerly known as Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus, wrote several works, including his Lives of the Twelve Caesars, which is an account of the lives of the first twelve Roman emperors. In his Life of Claudius, he writes:

 As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome.[109]

 In order to use this as a reference to Jesus, McDowell must assume that this 'Chrestus' was Jesus. Thus, in He Walked Among Us, we find McDowell and Wilson declaring that "Chrestus was probably a misspelling of 'Christ' (Greek 'Christus')."[110] Quoting France, McDowell and Wilson argue that 'Chrestus' is a misspelling of 'Christus' because (i) 'Chrestus' is a Greek name; and (ii) the meaning of 'Christus' would be unfamiliar to a Gentile audience. Furthermore, McDowell and Wilson argue (iii) that Christian witnessing to the Jews in AD 49 (similar to that recorded in Acts 18) "probably resulted in the hostilities which led to the expulsion of all Jews from Rome." This, they argue, would have led to the writing of a Roman "police report" which in turn would have attributed the violence to 'Chrestus' (a familiar name).[111]

 I find these arguments unconvincing. Indeed, while stating that it is possible that this passage is a misspelled reference to Jesus, France nevertheless dismisses (i) and (ii). According to France, the claim that 'Chrestus' is a misspelling of 'Christus' "can never be more than a guess, and the fact that Suetonius can elsewhere speak of 'Christians' as members of a new cult (without any reference to Jews) surely makes it rather unlikely that he could make such a mistake."[112] McDowell and Wilson never offer any reasons for rejecting France's argument on this point. As for (iii), this is so speculative as to be laughable. There is no evidence of such a police report and there is no evidence that Christian preaching to the Jews led to hostilities which in turn led to the Jews' expulsion from Rome. In sum, then, McDowell and Wilson have been unable to show that this passage even refers to Jesus.

 McDowell also quotes Lives of the Caesars--where Suetonius mentions Nero's punishment of Christians--though his reference is incorrect. (McDowell lists the passage as originating in 26.2; the passage is actually found in 16.2.[113]) The passage reads as follows:

 Punishment by Nero was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men given to a new and mischievous superstition.

 McDowell and Wilson think this "verifies" that Christians were "being put to death" for their Christian beliefs.[114]

 However, Suetonius "verifies" nothing of the sort. Suetonius only says that Christians were punished, not that they were "put to death." Moreover, Suetonius does not say that the Christians were punished simply for being Christians; indeed, Suetonius does not specify their crime at all. As the Christian New Testament scholar R.T. France, who McDowell quotes repeatedly in his 1988 work, notes

 The great fire of AD 64 is not mentioned in this connection, and indeed the punishment of Christians is included in that part of the book (up to section 19) which deals with Nero's good acts, before he turned to vice and crime. (The fire is not reported until section 38, where it is unconditionally blamed on Nero himself.) Nor does Suetonius even so much as mention the 'Christus' from whom their name derived.[115]

 In short, this passage is not independent confirmation of the historicity of Jesus. As Wells argues, this passage "tells us nothing more than what we already know about this from Tacitus and nothing about Jesus himself."

 http://infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_lowder/jury/chap5.html

 ~Metro State Atheists

 The Roman writer Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus (ca. 70-ca. 140) practiced law in Rome and was a friend of Pliny the Younger. He published a book Lives of the Caesars, which covers the lives and careers of the first twelve emperors, from Julius Caesar to Domitian.[viii] In the fifth section of Lives of the Caesars, Suetonius reports how emperor Claudius treated several people during his reign. The quote claimed to support Jesus Christ is as follows, “He (Claudius) expelled the Jews from Rome, since they were always making disturbances because of the instigator Chrestus.”

 VanVoorst claims that “Christus” often found confusion with “Chrestus,” by non-Christians. Furthermore, the Codex Sinaiticus (fourth century) spells Christian with an -“eta” in all three New Testament occurrences of the word (Acts 11:26, 26:8; 1 Pet 4:16). In particular, “Christians” were also referred to as “Chrestians.” I find VanVoorst most convincing for the possibility of the connection to Jesus Christ when he claims that ‘Chrestus’ “does not appear among the hundreds of names of Jews recorded by the Roman catacomb inscriptions and other sources, yet was a familiar Gentile name. He concludes that this opens the door to the possibility that Suetonius may have confused Christus for Chrestus.” On the contrary, Bart Ehrman notes that Suetonius is probably referencing an individual “Chrestus” and Jesus’ followers, since Jesus of the Gospels was executed twenty years prior to the riots. My conclusion rests on the possibility of a reference to Jesus Christ here, however advances no farther than speculative evidence.

 https://metrostateatheists.wordpress.com/tag/gaius-suetonius-tranquillus/

 ~Michael Nugent

 A fourth independent record of the possible existence of Jesus was written in about 120 AD by Gaius Suetonius, who was a Roman historian who worked for Pliny and various Emperors. His many works ranged from the academic Grammatical Problems and Lives of the Grammarians to the more populist Greek Terms of Abuse and Lives of Famous Whores.

 In about 120 ad, in his major work, Lives of the Caesars, he says of the Emperor Claudius that:

 As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome.

 Now, Chrestus may be a misspelling of Christus, but it is also the correct Latin version of a different Greek name. So this passage means one of two things: either

 There were Christians in Rome at the time of Claudius, causing trouble in the name of their Christ, whose name was misspelled by an expert in linguistics; or

There was a Jew in Rome called Chrestus, directly causing trouble.

Either way, the passage proves nothing about the historical accuracy of Jesus as a person.

 http://www.michaelnugent.com/2008/06/30/did-the-historical-jesus-exist/

~ R.G. Price - Jesus Myth - The Case Against Historical Christ 

First let us tackle the reference in the work by Suetonius.

3 He forbade men of foreign birth to use the Roman names so far as those of the clans were concerned. Those who usurped the privileges of Roman citizenship he executed in the Esquiline field. He restored to the senate the provinces of Achaia and Macedonia, which Tiberius had taken into his own charge. He deprived the Lycians of their independence because of deadly intestine feuds, and restored theirs to the Rhodians, since they had given up their former faults. He allowed the people of Ilium perpetual exemption from tribute, on the ground that they were the founders of the Roman race, reading an ancient letter of the senate and people of Rome written in Greek to king Seleucus, in which they promised him their friendship and alliance only on condition that he should keep their kinsfolk of Ilium free from every burden. 4 Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome. He allowed the envoys of the Germans to sit in the orchestra, led by their naïve self-confidence; for when they had been taken to the seats occupied by the common people and saw the Parthian and Armenian envoys sitting with the senate, they moved of their own accord to the same part of the theatre, protesting that their merits and rank were no whit inferior. 5 He utterly abolished the cruel and inhuman religion of the Druids among the Gauls, which under Augustus had merely been prohibited to Roman citizens; on the other hand he even attempted to transfer the Eleusinian rites from Attica to Rome, and had the temple of Venus Erycina in Sicily, which had fallen to ruin through age, restored at the expense of the treasury of the Roman people. He struck his treaties with foreign princes in the Forum, sacrificing a pig and reciting the ancient formula of the fetial priests. But these and other acts, and in fact almost the whole conduct of his reign, were dictated not so much by his own judgment as that of his wives and freedmen, since he nearly always acted in accordance with their interests and desires. - The Lives of the Caesars (The Life of Claudius); Suetonius, 120

The one line in bold above is the only potential reference to "Jesus Christ" that we get from Suetonius. This is a passage talking about the treatment of foreigners in Rome by the Emperor Claudius. Of this, one line deals with the Jews, whom Suetonius says were expelled from Rome in 49 CE by Claudius. As "evidence for Jesus" this passage is fraught with problems. First of all, we can only assume that Suetonius is talking about "Jesus Christ" by the use of the name "Chrestus", which corresponds to nothing and is not a proper Latin translation of the Greek Christos, though it is a proper Latin name. Secondly, this passage implies that these Jews were being instigated by someone in Rome in 49 CE, which would be impossible for the Jesus of the Gospels since he was supposedly already dead by then.

Of course it is possible that some Jews in Rome in 49 CE were making disturbances "in the name of Jesus Christ", but if that is what this is indeed talking about then that certainly isn't evidence for the existence of Jesus, it's only evidence for people doing things in the name of a god or hero figure, which was not at all uncommon. Importantly, however, if this did actually refer to Christians in Rome in 49 CE then this reference alone would be evidence of the earliest existence of followers of Jesus in Rome. All of these things make it highly unlikely that this is even refereeing to "Jesus Christ" at all. The majority of Jews didn't believe in the Jesus stories, thus it would be unlikely that "the Jews" would get expelled for disturbances on behalf of Jesus because the majority of the Jews in Rome wouldn't have participated in such an event in the first place.

Some Christians try to claim that the name Chrestus by itself could only being talking about "Jesus Christ" because that is the only person that would have been well known enough that a single reference to his name could have been self-explanatory, but as we have already seen Jesus Christ was certainly not well known at this time at all, thus this argument fails.

Even if this were referring to "Jesus Christ" it's obviously nothing more than a hearsay comment being made in 120, it's hardly "evidence" for the existence of Jesus.

http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_myth_history.htm

Suetonius is Weaker evidence, but still worth addressing. He makes one statement regarding "Christ." "As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome."

 A second quote does not mention Jesus, but refers to Christians being persecuted under Nero.

 Does this passage really refer to Jesus?

 J.P.Holding:

 This is the key objection to using this passage. "Chrestus," as Suetonius spells it, is the correct Latin form of a true Greek name, so that some would say that it does not refer to Jesus Christ. Benko, for example, has suggested that "Chrestus" was some kind of Jewish agitator who had no association with Christianity, perhaps a semi-Zealot reacting to plans by Caligula to put a statue of Zeus in the Jewish Temple; as for the spelling issue, he points out that Suetonius spells "Christians" correctly, so it is unlikely that he misspelled "Christus." [see Benk.EC49, 410-3] . (On the other hand, one oddball author suggested that the reference was to Jesus Himself - still alive, and visiting Rome in the 40s AD!) Mason [Maso.JosNT, 166] , on the other hand, believes that the reference is to Jesus, but that Suetonius altered the name he heard to that of a common slave name. Harris [Harr.3Cruc, 22; see also Harr.GosP5, 354] notes that the substitution of an "e" for an "i" was "a common error in the spelling of proper names" at the time; he also says that because Suetonius did not say, "at the institution of a certain Chrestus," the historian expected that his readers would know the person that he was referring to - hence, this "Chrestus" could not have been merely a Jewish agitator, for there was only one possible "Chrestus" that Suetonius could have been referring to that would have been so well known at the time he was writing (120 AD). It may be that Suetonius wrongly presumed from one of his sources that Chrestus had at some time in the past personally delivered His message to Rome, and that is why he seems to indicate that Chrestus was directly behind the agitation. [ibid., 356] Harris also explains, in an amusing footnote, that to Greek ears, the name "Christos" would have sounded like something drawn from medical or building technology, meaning either "anointed" or "plastered"! (The Romans who heard these Jews talking about "Christus" assumed that, perhaps, another type of "plastering" was going on!) So, they switched it to the more comprehensible "Chrestus," which means "useful one." Harris further indicates, via a quote from the 4th-century Latin Christian Lactantius, that Jesus was commonly called "Chrestus" by those who were ignorant.

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Jesus Birther Movement

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Replacing the fraudulent-commercial images of je$u$ with truthful ones

~VIDEOS

VIDEO: Teen Arrested After Posting Lewd Pic With Jesus Statue (Pic)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0Y6k1mUCfY

VIDEO: Foreplay With Jesus Statue Lands Teen in Jail (Lewd Pic)

https://www.tytnetwork.com/2014/09/14/foreplay-jesus-statue-lands-teen-jail-lewd-pic/

VIDEO: Teen Faces Jail Over Raunchy Jesus Pic [UPDATE]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO7bKqJVLCQ

VIDEO: Attorney Charging Teen with Desecration of Jesus Statue Had Affair in Office, Posted Porn Online

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD3MQjaCw-g

NEW National tourist attraction: Pennsylvania jesus statue. Come celebrate America, the Constitution, Freedom of Speech, Freedom From Religion, Freedom of Expression, Artistic Freedom, Human Rights, and Justice! Come oppose censorship, anti-blasphemy laws, christian privilege, and theocracy. Make the PA pilgrimage to stand up to christian oppression.

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQt1SurmgM

Help us make memes and Photoshop the pics of the “Love in the Name of christ” Pennsylvania jesus statue:

http://tmblr.co/ZTwOHx1Sv3vjr

~The boy was charged with:

"simulating a sex act" with a statue (even though no sex act was even simulated.)

"offended the sensibilities and morals" of his community. ~ Pennsylvania district attorney, Bill Higgins

"offended people who have respect for that statute." ~ Pennsylvania district attorney, Bill Higgins

They claim that the boy "offended the sensibilities and morals," of christians?

Really? Have you ever heard of Westboro Baptist Church?

Craziest Westboro Baptist Church Protests Ever:

http://www.ranker.com/list/7-craziest-westboro-baptist-church-protests-ever/melody-yan

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/12/9-worst-funeral-protests-_n_1005958.html

Westboro Baptist Church wins Supreme Court case for right to protest military funerals

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/03/AR2011030304124.html

What about street preachers with bullhorns, screaming at mothers and children. ..telling them they will burn in hell? A half dozen police come and defend the preachers. On college campuses, students are arrested for just getting to close to the preacher-invaders.

What about christians blocking women's medical clinics? They scream and threaten them. They hold signs of fraudulent and graphic aborted fetuses that are actually miscarriages. The courts side with the christian maniacs.

Christians seem to have rights to offend the sensibilities and morals of the entire World!

Nobody saw him take the pictures. He put it on Facebook and the DA investigated and arrested him.

This is the GOP smaller government in action.

Meanwhile, christian district attorneys across America are shielding hundreds upon hundreds of priests that have raped children. 10s of thousands of pedophile church leaders all over the World go free. The church spends billions per year to defend them.

~GOP Team Rape

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.521877611186374.116525.218167498224055

The official charge was supposed: “desecration” of a venerated object.

The teenager’s juvenile court charge, formally titled “desecration, theft or sale of a venerated object,” is a second-degree misdemeanor in the Pennsylvania Code.

Pennsylvania district attorney, Bill Higgins, of Bedford County, charged the teen (whose name hasn't been released) with desecration of a venerated object, invoking a 1972 Pennsylvania statute that criminalizes "defacing, damaging, polluting or otherwise physically mistreating in a way that the actor knows will outrage the sensibilities of persons likely to observe or discover the action."

"This is where things get weird. He was charged with desecrating a venerated object. But he didn’t damage it. He didn’t alter the statue in any way. He didn’t *try* to offend anyone’s sensibilities — it sounds like he just thought his Facebook friends would find it funny. So even if the law prohibits desecration, I don’t think he actually did anything illegal. Distasteful? Sure. But bad taste isn’t a crime." ~Hemant Mehta

This law is unconstitutional because it violates the establishment clause of the First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution, stating,

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,..."

Pennsylvania is not the only state with a "venerated objects" law—many states have some version of it, but most define "desecration" as vandalizing or otherwise physically harming an object of civic or religious significance. Alabama, Tennessee, and Oregon have laws like Pennsylvania's, which can be interpreted to punish individuals.

Most State laws specify actions, but some criminalize words. A few include other venerated objects in their protections:

http://atheism.about.com/od/flagburningstatelaws/

The blogger at Foster Disbelief writes:

"… this is a kid. Who took a photo. That’s it. The only damage he caused is in the minds of people who viewed the photo and lost their shit… If he would have vandalized, or damaged in anyway, the statue, then I would back up the charges… But he didn’t. He took a picture. That is not a crime."

From religiondispatches.org:

Venerated by whom? For what reason? To paraphrase Taves, there are no venerated objects, only objects deemed worthy of veneration.

...to afford certain objects the legal status of “venerated” is a form of hegemony that inevitably privileges certain perspectives over others. At worst, it is not citizens but the government itself that is selecting which objects are ordinary and which must be set apart and guarded against physical and ritual pollution. Bestowing this status onto an object is a process that some scholars would deem to be religious.

~What the boy is NOT charged with:

trespassing

vandalism

public indecency

public lewdness

Again, the church did not press charges.

~What this case is really about:

Religion, christian privilege, christian anti-blasphemy laws, and christian Sharia Law

VS.

American Constitutional Freedom of Speech

This is about one rogue district attorney who wants to persecute and launch a christian jihad or holy crusade against a child.

~Pennsylvania district attorney, Bill Higgins Jr.

DA Who Went After Kid For Jesus Statue Prank Is An Adulterous Porn Addict

Another moralizing GOPer caught being a complete and utter hypocrite. This time, however, a child's future could be at stake.

Porn, adultery, extramarital affair, having sex in the courthouse, and a criminal complaint was filed against him for sexual assault.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/09/15/da-who-went-after-kid-for-jesus-statue-prank-is-an-adulturous-porn-addict/

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/east/2008/08/27/Bedford-DA-Sex-in-office-no-crime/stories/200808270239

https://www.facebook.com/BillHigginsJr

Bedford County District ATTORNEY Bill Higgins, who is in Puerto Rico for a Lions Club gathering, did not return a message seeking comment.

"I guess I should take solace in the fact that the liberals are mad at me - again," Higgins said Thursday on his Facebook page. "As for this case, this troubled young man offended the sensibilities and morals of OUR community. ... His actions constitute a violation of the law, and he will be prosecuted accordingly. If that tends to upset the 'anti-Christian, ban-school-prayer, war-on-Christmas, oppose-display-of-Ten-Commandments' crowd, I make no apologies."

"He committed an act that had offended people who have respect for that statute. The ACLU may not like it, but this is the law in Pennsylvania. This kid violated that law and we're going to prosecute him," said District ATTORNEY Bill Higgins.

He wants to imprison the child for offending his religion. We don't have blasphemy laws.

Can you imagine if christians in power were able to arrest all Facebook users that posted pictures that offended christianity?

This case is about christian anti-blasphemy laws against Facebook posts.

Open Letter to District Attorney William Higgins

http://www.examiner.com/article/open-letter-to-district-attorney-william-higgins?cid=PROD-redesign-right-next

The PA district attorney, Bill Higgins, should be removed from office for abuse of power, desecration of our Constitution and violations against the separation of church and state.

I have seen the court papers. There was no vandalism, profanity, or public obscenity. The kid had his shirt off. There is no law against that. He squatted near a statue's face. The christian DA was personally offended and for that, he is using his position to attack a child. No law whatsoever was broken. There were only 2 pictures taken and those 2 pictures do not break any laws. It is not even close. The only things in question are the pictures.

~Quotes about this case:

"I'm still trying to figure out why that statue is praying to "itself"?" ~Mikey

"That statue was totally asking for it. Sitting on a corner in a dress already on his knees. I guess Jesus has needs." ~Daniel

"Scary that this gets a harsher penalty than a child abuse offence. Nice priorities." ~Pandora

"Someone find me a jesus statue. Everyone should take photos like these!" ~Laura

~Ironically, The statue of fictional jesus is bible Idolatry:

~The 2nd COMMANDMENT 0f the 10 Commandments:

Exodus 20:3-6 

3 “You shall have no other gods before me. 4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Leviticus 26:1

"'Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God."

~Bible Punishments for breaking the 2nd commandment:: 

~Death to False Prophets 

Deuteronomy 13:1-5 

Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, ‘Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,’ do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. 

Deuteronomy 18:20-22 

But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. 

Zechariah 13:3 

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.

~More Articles:

Teen faces 2 years in jail after simulating sex act with Jesus statue

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2014/09/pennsylvania-teenager-hump-oral-sex-jesus-statue-prison

Christian privilege and the “desecration” of a Jesus statue

http://ffrf.org/news/blog/item/21351-christian-privilege-and-the-desecration-of-a-jesus-statue

Petition says: ‘Return the horny Devil’

A couple of days ago a priapic Devil figure mysteriously appeared in Vancouver. It was quickly removed by the authorities. Now a petition has been launched calling for its re-erection.

http://freethinker.co.uk/2014/09/11/petition-says-return-the-horny-devil/

IS THE STATE A RELIGIOUS ACTOR IN DEEMING TEEN’S CROTCH-RUBBING OF JESUS STATUE ILLEGAL?

A “tale of two statues”

http://religiondispatches.org/is-the-state-a-religious-actor-in-deeming-teens-crotch-rubbing-of-jesus-statue-illegal/

Should a 14-Year-Old Pennsylvania Boy Be Punished for Supposed Desecration of a Statue of Jesus?

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/09/10/should-a-14-year-old-pennsylvania-boy-be-punished-for-supposed-desecration-of-a-statue-of-jesus/

JOHNSON: The first amendment on trial

While molesting a statue or burning a flag does nothing to injure Christian or American values, Mr. Higgins‘ prosecution of the teen does, however, harm both.

Sara Rose, a staff attorney with the ACLU of Pennsylvania, told the Altoona Mirror, “There are some serious First Amendment issues with this [desecration of a venerated object] statute” if merely gesturing next to an image is enough to be charged. Further, according to Ms. Rose, a special law protecting religious items, even the holiest of concrete lawn ornaments, from being the victim of an act free speech is hard to justify.

All Americans should be horrified that Mr. Higgins honestly believes that a historically inaccurate piece of concrete is more important than the First Amendment. Mr. Higgins‘ behavior brings to mind the actions of Russian President Vladimir Putin who had members of the band Pussy Riot jailed after supposedly desecrating a church by playing a punk rock song in the building.

Christians should be doubly horrified that Mr. Higgins is invoking a law that mimics Sharia Law, the Muslim legal system often criticized by Christians. Just as Sharia law creates harsher laws for actions deemed as offensive to Islam, Mr. Higgins is contorting an already bad law to create harsher penalties for actions considered offensive to Christianity.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/sep/14/johnson-first-amendment-trial/?page=all

Sacrilegious Selfies: Pennsylvania Teen Arrested For “Desecrating” Jesus Statue In Sexual Pose

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2750779/Police-Boy-desecrated-Jesus-statue-posted-photos.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/11/oral-sex-jesus-statue-photo_n_5805174.html

http://www.mediaite.com/online/teen-faces-2-years-in-jail-for-mimicking-oral-sex-with-jesus-statue/

http://nypost.com/2014/09/12/teen-could-face-prison-after-simulating-sex-act-with-jesus-statue/

http://www.alternet.org/two-years-jail-prank-try-simulated-oral-sex-statue

http://wonkette.com/560344/pennsylvania-14-year-old-could-get-two-years-in-prison-for-desecrating-jesus-statues-mouth-with-his-wanger

Christians, if your skydaddy existed, either he does not control weather or he uses it to attack you and he will not protect you from it

http://tmblr.co/ZTwOHx1RN7WIN

Please Join Pages In Our ExposingReligion Network

http://exposingreligionblog.tumblr.com/post/20825271431

The ExposingReligion Research Directory:

http://exposingreligionblog.tumblr.com/post/16944061808

The jesus Birther Movement (jBM)

https://www.facebook.com/JesusBirtherMovement

https://www.facebook.com/JesusBirtherMovement/info

https://www.facebook.com/JesusBirtherMovement/photos_stream?tab=photos_albums

By failing, ignoring or refusing to take The Official jesus Challenge, you will personally prove that there isn’t any contemporary or primary evidence for a historical jesus:

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtlwRJgf

The jesus Birther Movement (jBM) Research Database Directory

Christian Reich-Wing Pennsylvania district attorney, Bill Higgins (adulterous porn addict), launched an American Taliban Jihad against a kid (faced 2 years in jail), for his shirtless Facebook pictures that showed him squatting near the face of an offensive, idolatrous, purposely inaccurate, and fraudulent fictional jesus statue. The charge was offending the “morality” of christians with blasphemy. The Constitution and Freedom of Speech is under siege by the GOP Conservative Theocracy.

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQt1SuvtNF

Help us make memes and Photoshop the pics of the “Love in the Name of christ” Pennsylvania jesus statue:

http://tmblr.co/ZTwOHx1Sv3vjr

This statue is offensive.

Fictional jesus is the most evil character ever created. This monster is supposed to kill and fire-torture over 5 billion people in his "return." 

In the OT fantasy, fictional genocidal beast, yahweh/jesus kills over 25 million people.

Historically, christians have killed over 700 million people in the name of their evil jesus.

Christians should move this dog into their cult building.

Taking pictures with the statue of this evil fictional character, should be a daily event and free people everywhere should make pilgrimages to take photos with it.

This statue should be a National tourist attraction for all people who cherish freedom.

https://www.aclu.org/free-speech/freedom-expression-arts-and-entertainment

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Artistic+freedom

~LOCATION:

The church is called "Love in the Name of Christ"

The address is:

80 State St Everett, PA 15537

Christians are going to wish they welcomed this boy getting a pretend BJ from their jesus statue.

Disclaimer:

This article and our organization is not suggesting that anyone break any laws at all.

This includes but is not limited to:

Trespassing

Vandalism

Public indecency

Public lewdness

Public urination or defecation

“Desecration” of a venerated object.

Please Join Pages In Our ExposingReligion Network

http://exposingreligionblog.tumblr.com/post/20825271431

The ExposingReligion Research Directory:

http://exposingreligionblog.tumblr.com/post/16944061808

The jesus Birther Movement (jBM)

https://www.facebook.com/JesusBirtherMovement

https://www.facebook.com/JesusBirtherMovement/info

https://www.facebook.com/JesusBirtherMovement/photos_stream?tab=photos_albums

By failing, ignoring or refusing to take The Official jesus Challenge, you will personally prove that there isn’t any contemporary or primary evidence for a historical jesus:

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtlwRJgf

The jesus Birther Movement (jBM) Research Database Directory

A History of ‘Jesus Denial’ - The End is Nigh (for the godman!)

Demolishing the historicity of Jesus – A History

“For more than 200 years a minority of courageous scholars have dared to question the story of Jesus. Despite the risks of physical assault, professional ruin and social opprobrium, they have seriously doubted the veracity of the gospel saga, have peeled away the layers of fraud and deceit and eventually have challenged the very existence of the godman.”  ~Kenneth Humphreys

See the massive timeline list:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/scholars.html

A TIMELINE OF JESUS MYTHICISM

http://www.mythicistpapers.com/timeline-of-jesus-mythicism/

Freethinkers: A History of American Secularism by Susan Jacoby

http://www.amazon.com/Freethinkers-American-Secularism-Susan-Jacoby/dp/0805077766

Many christian apologists try to claim that the discovery that jesus was a fictional character is some new extraordinary and wild conspiracy theory without any merit. Even "if" the discovery was new, it wouldn't take away from the validity of the findings. New discoveries are made all the time and they are not automatically moot like many christians desperately claim.

Many discoveries concerning the fraud of christianity began during the latter half of the Age of Enlightenment (between 1650-1815); after the fall of The Roman Empire in the 15th Century and the official end of The Holy Roman Empire in 1806.

In 1842 (172 years ago), the first openly public author: professor Bruno Bauer, came forward with this discovery. Even in the mid-19th century, such a discovery was very dangerous. Bruno was destroyed and removed from his position. If anyone would of came forward 40 years earlier, they may had been executed.

For an example of the church power, in the 1300s, John Wycliffe translated the bible from Latin to English. These translations were banned and burned as quickly as church officials could get their hands on them. People found to have a copy were subject to burning at the stake. In 1428, 44 years after Wycliffe's death, church officials dug up his bones, burned them, and scattered the ashes on the River Swift.

This was a very dangerous time for free thinkers and truth. Various Holy Crusades ran between 718-1456, the christian Dark Ages ended around the year 1000, the christian Witch Trials began in 1692 and various christian Inquisitions persisted until the mid-19th century.

Often times, christians and apologists brag about the discovery of fictional jesus, not occurring until 1842 and use this claimed “late” date in order to try to delegitimize the findings. It could have came out earlier but it would have been very likely that the scholars and their work would have been incinerated. 1842 was already a very early date for such an “illegal” truth. Scholars may have just been waiting for a safe time to introduce the discovery that jesus was a fictional character.

~Dishonest Bart D. Ehrman Quotes:

“I don’t know any serious or reputable scholar that doubts a historical Jesus existed.”

"ALL New Testament scholars unanimously agree that Jesus existed." 

Interviewer: "There are historians that disagree with you right?"

Bart D Ehrman: "No. None that I ever heard of."

Interviewer: "Oh really?"

Bart D Ehrman: "Well, not serious historians."

Is Bart incompetent, ignorant, delusional or dishonest, when it comes to jesus belief?

How could he not know about the discovery that jesus was a fictional character?

QUOTES FROM A FEW SCHOLARS ABOUT JESUS

http://exposingreligionblog.tumblr.com/post/20641891493

~Bart Ehrman and the Quest of the Historical Jesus of Nazareth: An Evaluation of Ehrman’s Did Jesus Exist?

This book is written by: Richard Carrier (Author), Ph.D. (Author), D.M. Murdock (Author), Earl Doherty (Author), René Salm (Author), David Fitzgerald (Author), Robert M. Price (Author, Editor), Frank R. Zindler (Author, Editor)

When New Testament scholar Bart Ehrman published DID JESUS EXIST? THE HISTORICAL ARGUMENT FOR JESUS OF NAZARETH, he not only attempted to prove the historical reality of a man called *Jesus of Nazareth*, he sharply criticized scholars who have sought to develop a new paradigm in the study of Christian origins scholars who have claimed that Jesus was a mythical, not historical, figure, and that the traditional, Jesus-centered paradigm for studying the origins of Christianity must be replaced by an actual science of Christian origins. In the present volume, some of those scholars respond to Ehrman’s treatment of their research and findings, showing how he has either ignored, misunderstood or misrepresented their arguments. They present evidence that *Jesus of Nazareth* was no more historical than Osiris or Thor. Several contributors question not only the historicity of *Jesus of NAZARETH,* they present evidence that the site of present-day Nazareth was not inhabited at the time Jesus and his family should have been living there.

http://www.amazon.com/Ehrman-Quest-Historical-Jesus-Nazareth/dp/1578840198

Debunking Bart Ehrman’s belief in jesus that he is attempting to call a fact, with his newest book:

http://exposingreligionblog.tumblr.com/post/20640153264

Websites to buy books from this article:

http://www.amazon.com/b/ref=txtb_surl_textbooks/?node=465600

http://books.half.ebay.com

www.barnesandnoble.com

http://www.alibris.com 

http://www.abebooks.com/books/Textbooks/

http://www.booksamillion.com

http://books.google.com

http://www.goodreads.com

https://archive.org

https://shopping.yahoo.com/books

http://www.thriftbooks.com 

http://www.addall.com

http://www.ebooks.com

http://www.betterworldbooks.com 

http://bookstore.mbsdirect.net/webster.htm

http://www.bartleby.com

http://booksonline.com

http://www.bookfinder.com

WorldCat is the world's largest network of library content and services.

http://www.worldcat.org

The first 3 books that I recommend as an introduction are The End of Faith, Letter to a Christian Nation and then Nailed. These books are very well written and they are real easy to read and understand. I list books all the way back to the 1600’s. These older books are great for collections but many are outdated. Newer books have built off of these classics and included modern scholarship and discoveries.

For most authors, I provided a link to their biographies and credentials, as well as links to their works.

~Sam Harris

The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason

"The End of Faith articulates the dangers and absurdities of organized religion so fiercely and so fearlessly that I felt relieved as I read it, vindicated....Harris writes what a sizable number of us think, but few are willing to say."—Natalie Angier, New York Times

In The End of Faith, Sam Harris delivers a startling analysis of the clash between reason and religion in the modern world. He offers a vivid, historical tour of our willingness to suspend reason in favor of religious beliefs—even when these beliefs inspire the worst human atrocities. While warning against the encroachment of organized religion into world politics, Harris draws on insights from neuroscience, philosophy, and Eastern mysticism to deliver a call for a truly modern foundation for ethics and spirituality that is both secular and humanistic. Winner of the 2005 PEN/Martha Albrand Award for Nonfiction.

http://www.amazon.com/End-Faith-Religion-Terror-Future/dp/0393327655

Letter to a Christian Nation

From the new afterword by the author: Humanity has had a long fascination with blood sacrifice. In fact, it has been by no means uncommon for a child to be born into this world only to be patiently and lovingly reared by religious maniacs, who believe that the best way to keep the sun on its course or to ensure a rich harvest is to lead him by tender hand into a field or to a mountaintop and bury, butcher, or burn him alive as offering to an invisible God. The notion that Jesus Christ died for our sins and that his death constitutes a successful propitiation of a “loving” God is a direct and undisguised inheritance of the superstitious bloodletting that has plagued bewildered people throughout history. . . 

http://www.amazon.com/Letter-Christian-Nation-Sam-Harris/dp/0307278778

~David Fitzgerald

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Fitzgerald_(author)

Nailed: Ten Christian Myths That Show Jesus Never Existed at All

Why would anyone think Jesus never existed? Isn't it perfectly reasonable to accept that he was a real first century figure? As it turns out, no. NAILED sheds light on ten beloved Christian myths, and, with evidence gathered from historians across the theological spectrum, shows how they point to a Jesus Christ created solely through allegorical alchemy of hope and imagination; a messiah transformed from a purely literary, theological construct into the familiar figure of Jesus - in short, a purely mythic Christ.

http://www.amazon.com/Nailed-Christian-Myths-Jesus-Existed/dp/0557709911

Skepticon 3 "Examining the Existence of a Historical Jesus"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvleOBYTrDE

~Kenneth Humphreys

Kenneth Humphreys is one of the leading experts in exposing the jesus fiction. He holds post-graduate qualifications from two British universities and taught for many years in the UK, Turkey and Papua New Guinea; including a Senior Lecturership in Modern Languages. He is now fully occupied as a writer, radio broadcaster and public speaker.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

Jesus Never Existed

Can you handle the truth?

No "hidden code", no "secret bloodline", no "arcane wisdom", no "holy grail", in fact, no mystery at all – just the unembellished truth about the greatest fraud in history. Jesus Never Existed reveals a disturbing truth: that the triumph of Christianity was a disaster for humanity – made chillingly ironic by the bogus nature of its central character, superstar and "saviour". Jesus Never Existed is an uncompromising exposure of the counterfeit origins of Christianity and of the evil it has brought to the world. Not a book for those who wish to keep their faith in the cozy bliss of historical ignorance.

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Never-Existed-Kenneth-Humphreys/dp/0906879140

The Birthing of a Godman - Unbelievable in Every Word

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/book.html

Jesus Never Existed: An Introduction to the Ultimate Heresy

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Never-Existed-Introduction-Ultimate/dp/098969724X

~Richard Carrier

http://www.richardcarrier.info/about.html

On the Historicity of Jesus: Why We Might Have Reason for Doubt

http://www.amazon.com/On-Historicity-Jesus-Might-Reason/dp/1909697494

Proving History: Bayes's Theorem and the Quest for the Historical Jesus

http://www.amazon.com/Proving-History-Bayess-Theorem-Historical/dp/1616145595

Hitler Homer Bible Christ: The Historical Papers of Richard Carrier 1995-2013 - All of Dr. Carrier's peer reviewed academic journal articles in history through the year 2013

http://www.amazon.com/Hitler-Homer-Bible-Christ-Historical/dp/1493567128

Why I Am Not a Christian: Four Conclusive Reasons to Reject the Faith

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Am-Not-Christian-Conclusive/dp/1456588850

~Robert M. Price

Ex-minister and accredited scholar shows Jesus to be a fictional amalgam of several 1st century prophets, mystery cult redeemers and gnostic 'aions'.

http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/bio.htm

http://infidels.org/library/modern/robert_price/

The Case Against The Case For Christ: A New Testament Scholar Refutes the Reverend Lee Strobel - Frank R. Zindler (Editor)

http://www.amazon.com/Case-Against-Christ-Testament-Reverend/dp/1578840058

The Christ-Myth Theory and Its Problems

http://www.amazon.com/The-Christ-Myth-Theory-Its-Problems/dp/1578840171

Deconstructing Jesus

http://www.amazon.com/Deconstructing-Jesus-Robert-M-Price/dp/1573927589

The Empty Tomb: Jesus Beyond The Grave

http://www.amazon.com/Empty-Tomb-Jesus-Beyond-Grave/dp/159102286X

Night of the Living Savior

http://www.amazon.com/Night-Living-Savior-Robert-Price/dp/1578840104

Incredible Shrinking Son of Man: How Reliable Is the Gospel Tradition?

http://www.amazon.com/Incredible-Shrinking-Son-Man-Tradition/dp/1591021219

The Amazing Colossal Apostle: The Search for the Historical Paul

http://www.amazon.com/The-Amazing-Colossal-Apostle-Historical/dp/156085216X

~Earl Doherty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Doherty

Jesus: Neither God Nor Man - The Case for a Mythical Jesus - Massive Book

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Neither-God-Case-Mythical-ebook/dp/B00772ZH8Y

The Jesus Puzzle: Did Christianity Begin with a Mythical Christ? Challenging the Existence of an Historical Jesus

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Puzzle-Christianity-Challenging-Historical/dp/096892591X

~Frank R. Zindler

http://infidels.org/library/modern/frank_zindler/bio.html

http://www.mythicistpapers.com/2012/10/01/frank-zindler/

The Jesus the Jews Never Knew

http://www.amazon.com/The-Jesus-Jews-Never-Knew/dp/1578849160

The Age of Reason: Examination of the Prophecies - by Thomas Paine (Author), Frank R. Zindler (Editor)

http://www.amazon.com/Age-Reason-Examination-Prophecies/dp/0910309701

The Legend of Saint Peter - by Arthur Drews  (Author), Frank R. Zindler (Author)

http://www.amazon.com/Legend-Saint-Peter-Arthur-Drews/dp/1578849519

~W. H. Uffington

http://www.workhorsepublishing.co.uk/Workhorse_Publishing/Home.html

The Greatest Lie Ever Told

http://www.amazon.com/Greatest-Lie-Ever-Told/dp/0956798004

50 fascinating facts about Jesus that no-one told you before (50 fascinating facts about religion that no-one told you before Book 1

http://www.amazon.com/fascinating-facts-no-one-before-religion-ebook/dp/B005KC24DE

~Thomas L. Brodie

Irish Roman Catholic priest within the Dominican Order. He is also a biblical theologian, educator and author born in Crusheen, County Clare. He is a co-founder and former director of the Dominican Biblical Institute in Limerick. "Jesus did not exist as a historical individual.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_L._Brodie

Beyond the Quest for the Historical Jesus: Memoir of a Discovery

http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Quest-Historical-Jesus-Discovery/dp/190753458X

~Thomas L. Thompson

Theologian, university don and historian of the Copenhagen school who concludes Jesus and David are both amalgams of Near Eastern mythological themes originating in the Bronze Age.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_L._Thompson

Is This Not the Carpenter?: The Question of the Historicity of the Figure of Jesus

http://www.amazon.com/This-Not-Carpenter-Historicity-International/dp/1844657299

The Messiah Myth: The Near Eastern Roots of Jesus and David

http://www.amazon.com/The-Messiah-Myth-Eastern-Roots/dp/022406200X

http://ku-dk.academia.edu/ThomasLThompson

~Harold Leidner

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Leidner

The Fabrication of the Christ Myth

http://www.amazon.com/Fabrication-Christ-Myth-Harold-Leidner/dp/0967790107

~Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Freke

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Gandy_(author)

The Jesus Mysteries: Was the "Original Jesus" a Pagan God?

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Mysteries-Was-Original-Pagan/dp/0609807986

Jesus and the Lost Goddess: The Secret Teachings of the Original Christians

Examines the close relationship between the Jesus Story and that of Osiris-Dionysus. Jesus and Mary Magdalene mythic figures based on the Pagan Godman and Goddess.

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Lost-Goddess-Teachings-Christians/dp/1400045940

The Laughing Jesus: Religious Lies and Gnostic Wisdom

http://www.amazon.com/Laughing-Jesus-Religious-Gnostic-Wisdom/dp/140008279X

~Raphael Lataster

Religious studies scholar at the University of Sydney puts his head above the parapet. This former fundamentalist Christian concludes from the spurious evidence, Bayesian reasoning, and rigorous logic that the historical Jesus never existed.

http://www.raphaellataster.com/

There was no Jesus, there is no God: A Scholarly Examination of the Scientific, Historical, and Philosophical Evidence & Arguments for Monotheism

http://www.amazon.com/there-was-Jesus-God-Philosophical/dp/1492234419

~D. M. Murdock - Acharya S

http://www.truthbeknown.com/author.html

The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold

http://www.amazon.com/Christ-Conspiracy-Greatest-Story-Ever/dp/0932813747

Who Was Jesus? Fingerprints of the Christ

http://www.amazon.com/Who-Was-Jesus-Fingerprints-Christ/dp/0979963109

The Origins of Christianity and the Quest for the Historical Jesus Christ

http://www.amazon.com/Origins-Christianity-Quest-Historical-Christ-ebook/dp/B004KZOS22

Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection

http://www.amazon.com/Christ-Egypt-Horus-Jesus-Connection-Murdock/dp/0979963117

Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled

http://www.amazon.com/Suns-God-Krishna-Buddha-Unveiled/dp/1931882312

Did Moses Exist? The Myth of the Israelite Lawgiver

http://www.amazon.com/Moses-Exist-Myth-Israelite-Lawgiver/dp/0979963184

~Christopher Hitchens

http://www.biography.com/people/christopher-hitchens--20845987

(1949–2011) He appeared more emphatic when speaking to a bookstore audience in Washington D.C. in 2007 when he said, "Jesus of Nazareth is not a figure in history ... there is no firm evidence that he existed." When asked if he really believed that Jesus never lived, however, he more carefully responded, "No, I said there is no reason to believe that he did."

"little or no evidence for the life of Jesus,"

God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything

http://www.amazon.com/God-Not-Great-Religion-Everything/dp/0446697966

~Arthur Drews

Eminent philosopher was Germany's greatest exponent of the contention that Christ is a myth. The gospels historized a pre-existing mystical Jesus whose character was drawn from the prophets and Jewish wisdom literature. The Passion was to be found in the speculations of Plato.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Drews

The Christ Myth, 1910, Die Christusmythe

https://archive.org/details/christmyth00drew

The Witnesses to the Historicity of Jesus

http://www.mountainman.com.au/essenes/Witnesses_to_the_historicity_of%20Jesus_AUTHUR_DREWS_1912.htm

1924, Die Entstehung des Christentums aus dem Gnostizismus (The Emergence of Christianity from Gnosticism).

1926, The Denial of the Historicity of Jesus

~George R. Dekle, Sr.

http://www.bobdeklebooks.com/

The Case against Christ: A Critique of the Prosecution of Jesus

http://www.amazon.com/Case-against-Christ-Critique-Prosecution/dp/1443831948

~Matthew S. Mccormick

http://www.csus.edu/phil/Department/Faculty/McCormick.html

Atheism And The Case Against Christ - The resurrection of Jesus, is false.

http://www.amazon.com/Atheism-Against-Christ-Matthew-Mccormick/dp/1616145811

~Tom Harpur

Canadian New Testament scholar and ex-Anglican priest re-states the ideas of Kuhn, Higgins and Massey. Jesus is a myth and all of the essential ideas of Christianity originated in Egypt.

http://www.tomharpur.com/biography/

Water Into Wine: An Empowering Vision of the Gospels

http://www.amazon.com/Water-Into-Wine-Empowering-Gospels/dp/0887623646

The Pagan Christ: Is Blind Faith Killing Christianity?

http://www.amazon.com/Pagan-Christ-Blind-Killing-Christianity-ebook/dp/B002VQ7PWC

The Pagan Christ: Recovering the Lost Light

http://www.amazon.com/Pagan-Christ-Recovering-Lost-Light/dp/0802714498

The Pagan Christ Documentary - The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC)

http://vimeo.com/57198653

~John G. Jackson

Most influential Black Atheist drew attention to the Ethiopian and Egyptian precedents of Christian belief.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_G._Jackson_(writer)

Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth

http://www.amazon.com/Pagan-Origins-Christ-Myth-Jackson/dp/0910309531

1985, Christianity Before Christ

http://www.amazon.com/Christianity-Before-Christ-John-Jackson/dp/0910309205

1933, Was Jesus Christ a Negro?

~John W. Loftus

http://infidels.org/library/modern/john_loftus/bio.html

The Christian Delusion: Why Faith Fails

http://www.amazon.com/Christian-Delusion-Why-Faith-Fails/dp/1616141689

The End of Christianity

http://www.amazon.com/End-Christianity-John-W-Loftus/dp/1616144130

~Rene Salm

http://www.amazon.com/Ren%C3%A9-Salm/e/B001JS0VEC   

The Myth Of Nazareth: The Invented Town Of Jesus - with Frank R. Zindler (Editor)

http://www.amazon.com/Myth-Nazareth-Invented-Town-Jesus/dp/1578840031

~Guy P. Harrison

http://www.guypharrison.com/

50 Simple Questions for Every Christian

http://www.amazon.com/50-Simple-Questions-Every-Christian/dp/161614727X

50 Reasons People Give for Believing in a God

http://www.amazon.com/Reasons-People-Give-Believing-God/dp/1591025672

~John E. Remsburg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Remsburg

1909, The Christ: A critical review and analysis of the evidences of His existence.

http://www.amazon.com/Christ-John-E-Remsberg/dp/0879759240

~Robert G Ingersoll

Illinois orator extraordinaire, his speeches savaged the Christian religion. "It has always seemed to me that a being coming from another world, with a message of infinite importance to mankind, should at least have verified that message by his own signature. Is it not wonderful that not one word was written by Christ?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_G._Ingersoll

Challenging the Bible: Selections from the Writings and Speeches of Robert G. Ingersoll

http://www.amazon.com/Challenging-Bible-Selections-Writings-Ingersoll/dp/1932968261

http://infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/

1872, The Gods

http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Other-Lectures-Robert-Ingersoll/dp/1605209015

1879, Some Mistakes of Moses

http://www.amazon.com/Some-Mistakes-Moses-Robert-Ingersoll/dp/0879753617

~Daniel C. Dennett

http://ase.tufts.edu/cogstud/dennett/

Caught in The Pulpit: Leaving Belief Behind

http://www.amazon.com/Caught-Pulpit-Leaving-Belief-Behind/dp/0615927904

Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon

http://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Spell-Religion-Natural-Phenomenon/dp/0143038338

~Bertrand Russell

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/russell/

Why I Am Not a Christian and Other Essays on Religion and Related Subjects

"Historically it is quite doubtful that Jesus existed, and if he did we do not know anything about him, so that I am not concerned with the historical question, which is a very difficult one"

http://www.amazon.com/Christian-Essays-Religion-Related-Subjects/dp/0671203231

~Albert Schweitzer 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Schweitzer

The famous German theologian and missionary (35 years in the Cameroons) ridiculed the humanitarian Jesus of the liberals and at the same time had the courage to recognize the work of the Dutch Radicals. His own pessimistic conclusion was that the superhero had been an apocalyptic fanatic and that Jesus died a disappointed man.

1901, The Mystery of the Kingdom of God

http://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Kingdom-God-Albert-Schweitzer-ebook/dp/B0034L001Q

1906, The Quest of the Historical Jesus

http://www.amazon.com/Quest-Historical-Jesus-Albert-Schweitzer/dp/0486440273

~George Albert Wells

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Albert_Wells

1975, Did Jesus Exist?

http://www.amazon.com/Did-Jesus-Exist-G-Wells/dp/0879753951

1988, The Historical Evidence for Jesus

http://www.amazon.com/Historical-Evidence-Jesus-G-Wells/dp/087975429X

1996, The Jesus Legend

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Legend-George-Albert-Wells/dp/0812693345

1998, Jesus Myth

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Myth-G-Wells/dp/0812693922

2004, Can We Trust the New Testament? Thoughts on the Reliability of Early Christian Testimony. Christianity a growth from Jewish Wisdom literature

http://www.amazon.com/Can-Trust-New-Testament-Reliability/dp/0812695674

*Later books concede possible influence of a real preacher.

~Tim C. Leedom

The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You to Read

http://www.amazon.com/Book-Your-Church-Doesnt-Want/dp/0939040158

http://www.scribd.com/doc/231890796/Tim-C-Leedom-The-Book-Your-Church-Doesn-t-Want-You-to-Read

http://issuu.com/scottjenson/docs/tim_c._leedom_-_the_book_your_churc/1

~Alexander Jacob

http://www.arktos.com/our-authors/alexander-jacob.html

Brahman: A Study of the Solar Rituals of the Indo-Europeans

http://www.amazon.com/Brahman-Study-Solar-Rituals-Indo-Europeans/dp/3487147408

~Sir James George Frazer

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/217662/Sir-James-George-Frazer

The Golden Bough: A Study of Magic and Religion

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=The%20Golden%20Bough

~Joseph Klausner

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Klausner

He wrote that biblical scholars "tried their hardest to find in the historic Jesus something which is not Judaism; but in his actual history they have found nothing of this whatever, since this history is reduced almost to zero. It is therefore no wonder that at the beginning of this century there has been a revival of the eighteenth and nineteenth century view that Jesus never existed."

Jesus of Nazareth: His Life, Times, and Teaching

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/jesus-of-nazareth-joseph-klausner/1001388954?ean=9780819705655

http://www.publishersrow.com/ebookshuk/cart/shopproductdetail.asp?id=2752

http://www.jnjr.div.ed.ac.uk/Primary%20Sources/modern/langton_josephklausnersjesus.html

Sequel: From Jesus to Paul

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1?ie=UTF8&field-author=Joseph+Klausner&search-alias=books&text=Joseph+Klausner&sort=relevancerank

http://www.jnjr.div.ed.ac.uk/Primary%20Sources/modern/langton_josephklausnersjesus.html

~Hermann Samuel Reimarus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Samuel_Reimarus

(1694-1768) Enlightenment thinker and professor of Oriental languages at the Hamburg Gymnasium, his extensive writings – published after his death – rejected 'revealed religion' and argued for a naturalistic deism. Reimarus charged the gospel writers with conscious fraud and innumerable contradictions.

Fragments from Reimarus: Consisting of Brief Critical Remarks on the Object of Jesus and His Disciples As Seen in the New Testament (Classic Reprint) – Contains: 1778, On the Intention of Jesus and His Teaching

http://www.amazon.com/Fragments-Reimarus-Consisting-Disciples-Testament/dp/B008ZJR6XM

~Francois Marie Arouet (Voltaire)

(1694-1778)The most influential figure of the Enlightenment was educated at a Jesuit college yet concluded, "Christianity is the most ridiculous, the most absurd, and bloody religion that has ever infected the world ... The true God cannot have been born of a girl, nor died on a gibbet, nor be eaten in a piece of dough." Imprisoned, exiled, his works banned and burned, Voltaire's great popularity in revolutionary France assured him a final resting place in the Pantheon in Paris. Religious extremists stole his remains and dumped them in a garbage heap.

http://www.biography.com/people/voltaire-9520178

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/voltaire/

God & Human Beings: First English Translation

http://www.amazon.com/God-Human-Beings-English-Translation/dp/1616141786

The Portable Voltaire (Portable Library)

http://www.amazon.com/Portable-Voltaire-Library/dp/0140150412

The Best Known Works of Voltaire: The Complete Romances, Including Candide, the Philosophy of History, the Ignorant Philosopher, Dialogues and Philosophic Criticisms

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Known-Works-Voltaire-Philosopher/dp/B000NSGTMW

~Count Constantine Volney

Napoleonic investigator saw for himself evidence of Egyptian precursors of Christianity.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/632357/Constantin-Francois-de-Chasseboeuf-count-de-Volney

1787, Les Ruines; ou, Méditation sur les révolutions des empires (Ruins of Empires)

http://tinyurl.com/opg52x2

~Edward Evanson

English rationalist challenged apostolic authorship of the 4th Gospel and denounced several Pauline epistles as spurious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Evanson

1792, The Dissonance of the Four Generally Received Evangelists and the Evidence of their Respective Authenticity

http://tinyurl.com/kqmauzc  

~Reverend Robert Taylor

Taylor was imprisoned for declaring mythical origins for Christianity. "The earliest Christians meant the words to be nothing more than a personification of the principle of reason, of goodness, or that principle, be it what it may, which may most benefit mankind in the passage through life.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Taylor_(Radical)

1828, Syntagma Of The Evidences Of The Christian Religion

http://tinyurl.com/q8g3l8o

1829, Diegesis

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Diegesis%20

~Ralph Waldo Emerson

One time Trinitarian Christian and former Unitarian minister held Jesus to be a "true prophet" but that organised Christianity was an "eastern monarchy".

"Our Sunday-schools, and churches, and pauper-societies are yokes to the neck."

http://www.biography.com/people/ralph-waldo-emerson-9287153

RWE.org - Complete Works of RWE

http://www.rwe.org/

1841, Essays

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Ralph+Waldo+Emerson

~Mitchell Logan

“Reigning opinion, however ill-founded and absurd, is always queen of the nations.”

1842, Christian Mythology Unveiled

http://www.amazon.com/Christian-Mythology-Unveiled-Lectures/dp/B009PU7D10

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/christian-mythology-unveiled-in-a-series-of-lectures-mitchell-logan/1102315737?ean=9781161413069

~Ferdinand Christian Baur

German scholar who identified as "inauthentic" not only the pastoral epistles, but also Colossians, Ephesians, Philemon and Philippians (leaving only the four main Pauline epistles regarded as genuine). Baur was the founder of the so-called "Tübingen School."

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/56490/Ferdinand-Christian-Baur

1845, Paulus, der Apostel Jesu Christi

http://tinyurl.com/md7ghcj

~David Friedrich Strauss

Lutheran vicar-turned-scholar, skilfully exposed gospel miracles as myth and in the process reduced Jesus to a man. It cost him his career. Strauss' appointment as chair of theology at the University of Zürich caused such controversy that the authorities offered him a pension before he had a chance to start his duties.

The Earl of Shaftesbury called the 1846 translation by Marian Evans "The most pestilential book ever vomited out of the jaws of hell."

http://people.bu.edu/wwildman/bce/strauss.htm

The life of Jesus critically examined

http://tinyurl.com/ldu2bch

~Bruno Bauer

German, Bruno Bauer (1809–1882), who taught at the University of Bonn, took Strauss' arguments further and became the first openly public author to systematically argue that Jesus did not exist. Bauer contested the authenticity of all the Pauline epistles (in which he saw the influence of Stoic thinkers like Seneca) and identified Philo's role in emergent Christianity. Bauer rejected the historicity of Jesus himself. "Everything that is known of Jesus belongs to the world of imagination." As a result in 1842 Bauer was ridiculed and removed from his professorship of New Testament theology at Tübingen.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/bauer/

An English Edition of Bruno Bauer's 1843 Christianity Exposed

http://www.amazon.com/English-Bruno-Bauers-Christianity-Exposed/dp/0773471839

1877, Christus und die Caesaren. Der Hervorgang des Christentums aus dem romischen Griechentum

http://tinyurl.com/kkwrowf  

Christ and the Caesars

http://sidneyrigdon.com/vern/1879BaurEng.htm#pg001

Kritische Darstellung der Religion des Alten Testaments (Critical Exhibition of the Religion of the Old Testament) in two volumes

A Critique of the Gospels and a History of their Origin

1841, Criticism of the Gospel History of the Synoptics

~Kersey Graves

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kersey_Graves

The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/cv/wscs/

http://www.amazon.com/Worlds-Sixteen-Crucified-Saviors-Christianity/dp/1631820419

Richard Carrier - Review

http://infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/graves.html

~Alvin Boyd Kuhn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Boyd_Kuhn

Christ's Three Days in Hell & Case of the Missing Messiah

http://www.amazon.com/Christs-Three-Days-Missing-Messiah/dp/078731188X

Who is this King of Glory?: A Critical Study of the Christos-Messiah Tradition

http://www.amazon.com/Who-this-King-Glory-Christos-Messiah/dp/1461190363

~E. A. Wallis Budge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._A._Wallis_Budge

The Egyptian Book of the Dead: The Papyrus of Ani in the British Museum

http://www.amazon.com/Egyptian-Book-Dead-Papyrus-British/dp/048621866X

~Godfrey Higgins

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godfrey_Higgins

Anacalypsis; An Attempt to Draw Aside the Veil of the Saitic Isis; or an Inquiry into the Origin of languages, Nations and Religions

'"One thing is clear—the mythos of the Hindus, the mythos of the Jews and the mythos of the Greeks are all at bottom the same; and what are called their early histories are not histories of humankind, but are contrivances under the appearance of histories to perpetuate doctrines." Higgins bluntly declares that every ancient author, without exception, has come to us through the medium of Christian edi- tors who have "either from roguery or folly, corrupted them all.”

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Anacalypsis

~Gerald Massey

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Massey

The Natural Genesis (Two Volumes in One)

http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Genesis-Two-Volumes-One/dp/1616405570

~Salomon Reinach

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salomon_Reinach

Orpheus: A history of religions

http://www.amazon.com/Orpheus-history-religions-Salomon-Reinach/dp/B0008D1J6I

A short history of Christianity

http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/salomon-reinach/a-short-history-of-christianity-nie/page-1-a-short-history-of-christianity-nie.shtml

~Édouard Dujardin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89douard_Dujardin

The source of the Christian tradition, a critical history of ancient Judaism

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=%C3%89douard%20Dujardin

Ancient History of the God Jesus

http://books.google.com/books/about/Ancient_History_of_the_God_Jesus.html?id=WebwDM4TCK4C

~Charles-François Dupuis

“A great error is more easily propagated, than a great truth, because it is easier to believe, than to reason, and because people prefer the marvels of romances to the simplicity of history.” Dupuis destroyed most of his own work because of the violent reaction it provoked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles-Fran%C3%A7ois_Dupuis

1794, Origine de tous les Cultes ou La Religion universelle. Astral-mythical interpretation of Christianity (and all religion)

http://tinyurl.com/p87d7qk

~Rudolf Bultmann

Lutheran theologian and professor at Marburg University Bultman was the exponent of 'form criticism' and did much to demythologise the gospels. He identified the narratives of Jesus as theology served up in the language of myth. Bultmann observed that the New Testament was not the story of Jesus but a record of early Christian belief. He argued that the search for an historical Jesus was fruitless: "We can know almost nothing concerning the life and personality of Jesus."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Bultmann

Jesus Christ and Mythology

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Christ-Mythology-Rudolf-Bultmann/dp/0334046300

New Testament & Mythology 

http://www.amazon.com/New-Testament-Mythology-Rudolf-Bultmann/dp/0800624424

1921, The History of the Synoptic Tradition

http://tinyurl.com/n4wh96f

~Georges Ory

http://www.mythicistpapers.com/2012/10/01/georges-ory/

1961, An Analysis of Christian Origins

http://tinyurl.com/lfdwsja

~ Emilio Bossi (pseudonym of Milesbo)

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emilio_Bossi

1904, Gesù Cristo non è mai esistito (Jesus Christ Never Existed)

http://tinyurl.com/pge6vqk

~Solomon Zeitlin

http://www.nndb.com/people/402/000050252/

THE CHRIST PASSAGE IN JOSEPHUS

http://www.christianorigins.com/zeitlin.html

~Charles Bradlaugh

Most famous English atheist of the 19th century, founded the National Secular Society and became an MP, winning the right to affirm. Condemned the teachings of Jesus as dehumanizing passivity and disastrous as practical advice. Bradlaugh denounced the gospel Jesus as a myth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Bradlaugh

1860, Who Was Jesus Christ? What Did Jesus Teach?

http://www.amazon.com/Who-Jesus-Christ-what-teach/dp/B00E9DSOQQ

http://infidels.org/library/historical/charles_bradlaugh/what_jesus_taught.html

Quotes:

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/bradlaugh.htm

~Ernest Renan

Although trained as a Catholic priest Renan was inspired by German biblical criticism and wrote a popular biography of Jesus which cost him his job (which he later regained). Renan concluded that the hero of the Christians was a gifted but merely human preacher, persuaded by his followers into thinking he was the messiah. Renan subsequently wrote a History of the Origins of Christianity in seven volumes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Renan

1863, Vie de Jésus (Das Leben Jesu / Life of Jesus)

http://tinyurl.com/odvsq97

~Walter Cassels

http://www.ftarchives.net/cassels/bio.htm

1874, Supernatural Religion - An Inquiry Concerning the Reality of Divine Revelation – 3 Volumes

https://archive.org/search.php?query=Supernatural%20religion%20AND%20mediatype%3Atexts

Volume 1

http://www.amazon.com/Supernatural-Religion-Inquiry-Reality-Revelation-ebook/dp/B005LXJRVY

https://archive.org/details/supernaturalreli001cass

Volume 2 https://archive.org/details/supernaturalreli02cassiala

Volume 3

https://archive.org/details/supernaturalrel07cassgoog

A Reply to Dr. Lightfoot's Essays By the Author of "Supernatural religion"

http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/gutbook/lookup?num=13433

~Allard Pierson

Theologian, art and literature historian who identified The Sermon on the Mount as a collection of aphorisms from Jewish Wisdom literature.The publication of Pierson's Bergrede was the beginning of Dutch Radical Criticism. Not just the authenticity of all the Pauline epistles but the historical existence of Jesus himself was called into question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allard_Pierson

1879, De Bergrede en andere synoptische Fragmenten

http://tinyurl.com/on2352f

~Bronson C. Keeler

1881, A Short History of the Bible - A classic exposé of Christian fraud

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/c/bronson-c.-keeler

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Bronson+C.+Keeler+bible

 http://google.ca/books?id=u4kXAAAAYAAJ&pg=PP7&source=gbs_selected_pages%20e#v=onepage&q&f=false

~Abraham Dirk Loman

Professor of theology at Amsterdam who said all the epistles date from the 2nd century. Loman explained Christianity as a fusion of Jewish and Roman-Hellenic thinking. When he went blind Loman said his blindness gave him insight into the dark history of the church!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Dirk_Loman

1882, "Quaestiones Paulinae," in Theologisch Tijdschrift

http://www.worldcat.org/title/quaestiones-paulinae/oclc/13799483

~Thomas William Doane

1882, Bible Myths and their Parallels in Other Religions

http://www.amazon.com/Bible-Myths-their-Parallels-Religions/dp/1564599221

https://archive.org/details/biblemythsandthe00doanuoft

~Samuel Adrianus Naber

Classicist who saw Greek myths hidden within Christian scripture.

1886, Verisimilia. Laceram conditionem Novi Testamenti exemplis illustrarunt et ab origine repetierunt

http://tinyurl.com/kwtjb3o

~Edwin Johnson

English radical theologian identified the early Christians  as the Chrestiani, followers of a good (Chrestus) God who had expropriating the myth of Dionysos Eleutherios ("Dionysos the Emancipator"), to produce a self-sacrificing Godman. Denounced the twelve apostles as complete fabrication.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Johnson_(historian)

1887, Antiqua Mater. A Study of Christian Origins

http://www.amazon.com/Antiqua-Mater-Christian-Origins-Primary/dp/1294850539

1894, The Pauline Epistles: Re-studied and Explained

http://www.egodeath.com/edwinjohnsonpaulineepistles.htm

http://www.radikalkritik.de/pauline_epistles.htm

~Rudolf Steck

Radical Swiss scholar branded all the Pauline epistles as fakes.

1888, Der Galaterbrief nach seiner Echtheit untersucht nebst kritischen Bemerkungen zu den Paulinischen Hauptbriefen

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/s/Rudolf-Steck-Der-Galaterbrief?store=allproducts&keyword=Rudolf+Steck+Der+Galaterbrief

~Franz Hartman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Hartmann

1889, The Life of Johoshua: The Prophet of Nazareth

http://www.theosophical.ca/books/LifeOfJehoshua,The_FHartmann.pdf

https://archive.org/details/lifeofjehoshuapr00hart

~Willem Christiaan van Manen

Professor at Leiden and most famous of the Dutch Radicals, a churchman who did not believe in the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. After resisting the argument for many years van Manen concluded none of the Pauline epistles were genuine and that Acts was dependent on the works of Josephus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willem_Christiaan_van_Manen

1896, Paulus

http://www.amazon.com/Paulus-Dutch-Willem-Christiaan-Manen/dp/1167239776

~Joseph McCabe

Franciscan monk-turned-evangelical atheist. A prolific writer, shredded many parts of the Christ legend – "There is no 'figure of Jesus' in the Gospels. There are a dozen figures" – but he continued to allow the possibility for a historical founder..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCabe

http://infidels.org/library/historical/joseph_mccabe/

1897, Why I Left the Church

1907, The Bible in Europe: an Inquiry into the Contribution of the Christian Religion to Civilization

1914, The Sources of the Morality of the Gospels

1926, The Human Origin of Morals

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Joseph%20McCabe

~Wilhelm Wrede

Wrede demonstrated how, in Mark’s gospel, a false history was shaped by early Christian belief.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wrede

1901, The Messianic Secret (Das Messiasgeheimnis in den Evangelien)

http://www.alibris.com/The-Messianic-Secret-Das-Messiasgeheimnis-in-Den-Evangelien-Wilhelm-Wrede/book/12482633

~Albert Kalthoff

Another radical German scholar who identified Christianity as a psychosis. Christ was essentially the transcendental principle of the Christ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Kalthoff

1902, Das Christus-Problem

http://www.worldcat.org/title/christus-problem-grundlinien-zu-einer-sozial-theologie/oclc/367402584

1907, The Rise of Christianity

http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Christianity-Primary-Source/dp/1293282855

~George Robert Stowe Mead

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._R._S._Mead

1903, Did Jesus Live 100 BC?

1907, The Gnostic Crucifixion

http://tinyurl.com/or3ogjp

The G. R. S. Mead Online Collection

http://www.gnosis.org/library/grs-mead/jesus_live_100/index.htm

~Thomas Whittaker

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Whittaker_(metaphysician)

1904, The Origins of Christianity

http://tinyurl.com/pz663xg

~William Benjamin Smith

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Benjamin_Smith

1906, Der vorchristliche Jesus

http://www.amazon.com/Vorchristliche-Jesus-Vorstudien-Entstehungsgeschichte-Urchristentums/dp/B009QUP848

1911, Die urchristliche Lehre des reingöttlichen Jesus

http://www.worldcat.org/title/ecce-deus-die-urchristliche-lehre-des-reingottlichen-jesu/oclc/6460209

The Birth Of The Gospel: A Study Of The Origin And Purport Of The Primitive Allegory Of The Jesus

http://www.amazon.com/Birth-Gospel-Purport-Primitive-Allegory/dp/125818172X

~Gerardus Bolland

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerard_Bolland

Philosopher at Leiden identified the origin of Christianity in an earlier Jewish Gnosticism. The New Testament superstar is the Old Testament 'son of Nun', the follower renamed Jesus by Moses. The virgin is nothing but a symbol for the people of Israel. From Alexandria the "Netzerim" took their gospel to Palestine.

1907, De Evangelische Jozua

http://www.amazon.com/evangelische-Jozua-aanwijzing-oorsprong-Christendoms/dp/B0037UZC1C

~Prosper Alfaric

(1886-1955)French Professor of Theology, shaken by the stance of Pius X, renounced his faith and left the church in 1909 to work for the cause of rationalism.

http://www.mythicistpapers.com/2012/10/01/prosper-alfaric/

- Pour comprendre la vie de Jésus: Examen critique de l’évangile selon Marc. Paris: Rieder, 1929.

- De la foi à la raison, Nouvelles Éditions Rationalistes, rééd. 1984 (1re éd. 1932)

- Jésus-Christ a-t-il existé? (1932), prefaced by Michel Onfray. The 2005 Coda edition also contains Comment s’est formé le mythe du Christ? (1947) and Le problème de Jésus (1954).

- P. Alfaric, Paul-Louis Couchoud et Albert Bayet, Le Problème de Jésus et les Origines du Christianisme, éd. Paris: Bibliothèque Rationaliste, Les œuvres représentatives, 1932.

- Les manuscrits de la “Vie de Jesus” d’Ernest Renan, éd. Les Belles Lettres, Publications de la Faculté des Lettres de l’Université de Strasbourg, 1939.

- A l’école de la raison: études sur les origines chrétiennes, Nouvelles Éditions Rationalistes

- Origines sociales du christianisme, Publications de l’Union Rationaliste, 1959.

http://www.amazon.com/Prosper-Alfaric/e/B00IZ4GYFI/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1406344009

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/c/prosper-alfaric

~Peter Jensen

Orientalist argued that Jesus was reworked Babylonian mythology.

1909, Moses, Jesus, Paul: Three Variations on the Babylonian Godman Gilgamesh

~Mangasar Magurditch Mangasarian

Erstwhile Presbyterian Minister who saw through the fabrication. "Even in the first centuries the Christians were compelled to resort to forgery to prove the historicity of Jesus."

1909, The Truth About Jesus. Is He a Myth?

~Karl Kautsky

Early socialist interpreted Christianity in terms of class struggle.

1909, The Foundations of Christianity

~John Robertson

Robertson drew attention to the universality of many elements of the Jesus storyline and to pre-Christian crucifixion rituals in the ancient world. Identified the original Jesus/Joshua with an ancient Ephraimite deity in the form of a lamb.

1910, Christianity and Mythology

1911, Pagan Christs. Studies in Comparative Hierology

1917, The Jesus Problem

~Gustaaf Adolf van den Bergh van Eysinga

Theologian and last of the Dutch radicals to hold a university professorship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustaaf_Adolf_van_den_Bergh_van_Eysinga

1908, Examining the Authenticity of the First Epistle of Clement

1912, Radical Views about the New Testament

1918, Voorchristelijk Christendom. De vorbereiding van het Evangelie in de Hellenistische wereld

1930, Does Jesus Live, or Has He Only Lived?

1951, Early Christianity`s Letters

~Alexander Hislop

Exhaustive exposure of the pagan rituals and paraphernalia of Roman Catholicism.

1916, The Two Babylons

~Edward Carpenter

Elaborated the pagan origins of Christianity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Carpenter

1920, Pagan and Christian Creeds

~Paul-Louis Couchoud

Couchoud espoused an historical Peter rather than an historical Jesus and argued that the Passion was modelled on the death of Stephen.

http://www.mythicistpapers.com/2012/10/02/paul-louis-couchoud/

http://www.radikalkritik.de/Couchoud21.pdf

1924, Le mystère de Jesus

1926, La Première Edition de St. Paul

1930, Jesus Barabbas

1939, The Creation of Christ

http://vridar.org/2012/03/12/table-of-contents-for-couchouds-the-creation-of-christ/

~Georg Brandes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Brandes

Danish scholar identified the Revelation of St John as the earliest part of the New Testament.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Brandes

1925, Die Jesus-Sage

http://www.radikalkritik.de/Brandes_Jesus-Sage.pdf

1926, Jesus – A Myth

 http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-myth-Translated-Danish-Bj%C3%B6rkman/dp/B001DBE4O8

~Joseph Wheless

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Wheless

American attorney, raised in the Bible Belt, shredded the biblical fantasy.

1926, Is It God's Word? An Exposition of the Fables and Mythology of the Bible and the Fallacies of Theology

http://infidels.org/library/historical/joseph_wheless/is_it_gods_word/

1930, Forgery in Christianity

http://infidels.org/library/historical/joseph_wheless/forgery_in_christianity/

http://www.harrington-sites.com/Wheless2.htm

http://www.harrington-sites.com/terms.htm

~Henri Delafosse

Epistles of Ignatius denounced as late forgeries.

1926, L'épître aux Romains

1927, Les Lettres d’Ignace d’Antioche

1928, "Les e'crits de Saint Paul," in Christianisme

~L. Gordon Rylands

1927, The Evolution of Christianity

1935, Did Jesus Ever Live?

~Herbert Cutner

Mythical nature of Jesus and a summary of the ongoing debate between mythicists and historicizers. Mythic-only position is continuous tradition, not novel. Pagan origins of Christ.

Jesus: God, Man or Myth? An Examination of the Evidence

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-God-Myth-Examination-Evidence/dp/1585090727

~Georges Las Vergnas

Vicar general of the diocese of Limoges who lost his faith. Argues that the central figure of Christianity had no historical existence.

1956, Pourquoi j'ai quitté l'Eglise romaine Besançon

1958, Jésus-Christ a-t-il existé?

~Guy Fau

1967, Le Fable de Jesus Christ

~John Allegro

Jesus was nothing other than a magic mushroom and his life an allegorical interpretation of a drug-induced state. Not jail for Allegro – but professional ruin.

1970, The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross

1979, The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Christian Myth

~Jean Magne

1975, Christian Origins, I-II

1989, III, IV. Logique des Dogmes, Logic of the Sacraments

1993, From Christianity to Gnosis and From Gnosis to Christianity: An Itinerary through the Texts to and from the Tree of Paradise.

~Max Rieser

Christianity started by Jews of the Diaspora and then retroactively set in pre-70 Palestine. Christianity arrived last, not first, in Palestine – that's why Christian archeological finds appear in Rome but not in Judea until the 4th century.

1979, The True Founder of Christianity and the Hellenistic Philosophy

~Abelard Reuchlin

Conspiracy theory par excellence: Roman aristocrat Arius Calpurnius Piso (aka "Flavius Josephus") conspired to gain control of the Roman Empire by forging an entirely new religion.

1979, The True Authorship of the New Testament

~Karlheinz Deschner

A leading German critic of religion and the Church. In 1971 Deschner was called before a court in Nuremberg, charged with "insulting the Church."

The Criminal History of Christianity, Volumes 1-8

~Hermann Detering 

German minister in the Dutch radical tradition. No Jesus and no Paul. The latter Detering identifies with the Samaritan sorcerer Simon Magus.

1992, Paulusbriefe ohne Paulus?: Die Paulusbriefe in der Holländischen Radikalkritik (The Pauline Epistles Without Paul)

2012, Der gefälschte Paulus – Das Urchristentum im Zwielicht (The Falsified Paul. Early Christianity in the twilight)

~Gary Courtney

The Passion is essentially Caesar's fate in Judaic disguise, grafted onto the dying/resurrcting cult of Attis. Jewish fans of Caesar assimilated the sacrificed 'saviour of mankind' into the 'Suffering Servant' of Isaiah.

1992, 2004 Et tu, Judas? Then Fall Jesus!

~Michael Kalopoulos

Greek historian finds strikingly similar parallels between biblical texts and Greek mythology. He exposes the cunning, deceitful and authoritarian nature of religion.

1995, The Great Lie

~Gerd Lüdemann

After 25 years of study German professor concluded Paul, not Jesus, started Christianity. Lüdemann was expelled from the theology faculty at the University of Göttingen for daring to say that the Resurrection was "a pious self-deception." So much for academic freedom.

1998, The Great Deception: And What Jesus Really Said and Did

2002, Paul: The Founder of Christianity

2004, The Resurrection Of Christ: A Historical Inquiry

~Alvar Ellegard

Christianity seen as emerging from the Essene Church of God with the Jesus prototype the Teacher of Righteousness.

1999, Jesus One Hundred Years Before Christ

~Hal Childs

A psychotherapist take on the godman.

2000, The Myth of the Historical Jesus and the Evolution of Consciousness

~Michael Hoffman

2000, Philosopher and theorist of "ego death" who jettisoned an historical Jesus

~Dennis MacDonald

Professor of New Testament studies and Christian origins maps extensive borrowings from the Homeric epics the Iliad and the Odyssey by the authors of the gospel of Mark and Acts of the Apostles.

2000, The Homeric Epics and the Gospel of Mark

~Burton Mack

2001, The Christian Myth: Origins, Logic, and Legacy.  

~Luigi Cascioli

Indicting the Papacy for profiteering from a fraud!

2001, The Fable of Christ.

~Israel Finkelstein, Neil Silbermann

Courageous archaeologists who skillfully proved the sacred foundational stories of Judaism and Christianity are bogus.

2002, The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts.

~Daniel Unterbrink

Parallels between the tax rebel of 6 AD and the phantom of the Gospels explored in detail. 'Judas is Jesus'. Well, part of Jesus, no doubt.

2004, Judas the Galilean. The Flesh and Blood Jesus.

~Michel Onfray

French philosopher argues for a positive atheism, debunking an historical Jesus along the way.

2005, Traité d'athéologie (2007 In Defence of Atheism)

~Jay Raskin

Academic and erstwhile filmaker Raskin looks beyond the official smokescreen of Eusebius and finds a fragmented Christ movement and a composite Christ figure, crafted from several literary and historical characters. Speculates that the earliest layer of myth-making was a play written by a woman called Mary. Maybe.

2006, The Evolution of Christs and Christianities..

~Jan Irvin, Andrew Rutajit

Explores astrotheology and shamanism and vindicates John Allegro's work with psychoactive substances.

2006, Astrotheology and Shamanism: Unveiling the Law of Duality in Christianity and other Religions.

~Roger Viklund

A Swedish scholar reaches the same inescapable conclusion: Jesus never existed.

2008. Den Jesus som aldrig funnits (The Jesus who never existed).

~Sid Martin

Not a new idea but skilfully presented here by Sid Martin, who analyses the gospel of Mark with the thesis that not a man but Jewish history was his source.

2014, Secret of the Savior. Jesus as a cypher for Israel?

~Samuel Lublinski

A certain historical importance came in his theories on Jesus' mythology (He denied the existence of Jesus). Lublinski questioned the existence of Jesus and argued that Christianity arose out of a syncretism of Judaism, mystery religions, gnosticism, and oriental influences, with the Essenes and Therapeutae as pioneering sects.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Lublinski

Das werdende Dogma vom Leben Jesu or The expectant dogma of the life of Jesus, Jena 1910

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?tn=Das+werdende+Dogma+vom+Leben+Jesu

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=njp.32101055431041;view=1up;seq=1

http://www.worldcat.org/title/werdende-dogma-vom-leben-jesu/oclc/7391444

Falsche Beweise für die Existenz des Menschen Jesus or False evidence for the existence of the man Jesus , Leipzig 1910

http://www.worldcat.org/title/falsche-beweise-fur-die-existenz-des-menschen-jesus/oclc/42083933

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=njp.32101063844748;view=1up;seq=5

~Archibald Robertson

Not to be confused with John Robertson. His father (same name) was Principal of King’s College, London and Bishop of Exeter. Robertson finds a middle ground between traditionalism and mythicism.

Jesus: Myth or History?

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Myth-History-Archibald-Robertson/dp/B000L58SL2

http://worldlibrary.net/eBooks/WPLBN0000892890-Jesus-Myth-or-History-by-Archibald-Robertson.aspx

~Albert Bayet

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Bayet

Le Problème de Jésus et les Origines du christianisme, avec or The Problem of Jesus and the Origins of Christianity , with Prosper Alfaric and Paul-Louis Couchoud , 1932

http://www.worldcat.org/title/probleme-de-jesus-et-les-origines-du-christianisme-par-p-alfaric-paul-louis-couchoud-et-albert-bayet/oclc/458938408

~Charles Guignebert

http://www.mythicistpapers.com/2012/10/01/charles-guignebert/

- Jésus (1933)

- Le monde juif vers le temps de Jésus (1935)

- Le Christ (posthumous, 1943)

- Manuel d’Histoire ancienne du Christianisme (1907)

- Le Christianisme antique (1921)

- Le christianisme médieval et moderne (1927)

Significant works by Guignebert also include:

- Tertullien (1901)

- Modernisme et tradition catholique en France (1908)

- La primauté de Pierre et la venue de Pierre à Rome (1909)

- Le problème de Jésus (1914)

- La vie cachée de Jésus (1921)

~Joseph Turmel

Turmel’s faith was ardent, and he worked hard to defend the Church against the incredulous. However, he himself became subject to doubts with the appearance of Gesenius’ commentary on Isaiah. Despite Turmel’s attempts to convince himself of error, those doubts grew with his continued study of the Pentateuch. On March 18, 1886 he finally realized that he could do nothing against facts which were indubitable, and declared to himself that he was no longer a believer.

An open rupture with the Church would have represented a rapier thrust for those whom he loved. Hence Turmel lived a sort of suffocating double existence, keeping his views private as he worked in secret, until a young clerk in whom he had confided apprized the authorities of his radical theories. Turmel was forced to resign his position and hand over his manuscripts: twenty-three notebooks totaling 5,000 lines were consigned to the flames “for the greater glory of God.”

Turmel retained his position as chaplain to the Little Sisters of the Poor of Rennes (1893). He continued his solitary researches without any real hope of publication. Luckily, a priest from Breton made Turmel’s Angelology known to Alfred Loisy and Lejay. These included Turmel on their production staff of the Revue d’Historie et de Litterature Religieuse. Several of Turmel’s works were published in its pages under pseudonyms and elicited much attention. Soon Turmel was linked to the works through their quality and style and the revenge of orthodoxy was not long delayed. In 1903 he resigned his position as chaplain and took up an insignificant post under a parish priest. He made use of ample spare time to write. Turmel’s public persona disappeared while a stream of his works appeared under numerous pseudonyms from 1909 to 1930.

Meanwhile, the Church watched. One pseudonym was revealed, and Turmel was betrayed yet again by an ecclesiastic whom he had taken into his confidence. Turmel eventually confessed to the use of fourteen pseudonyms and was excommunicated in 1930. However, this did not alter his working habits and Turmel continued to produce admirable works, many published before his death. These include his monumental History of Dogma (6 volumes, 1931-36) and no less than 143 reviews and articles of significance.

http://www.mythicistpapers.com/2012/10/01/joseph-turmel/

Most notable are:

Pseud. “L. Coulanges”: - La Vierge Marie (1925) - La Messe (1927) - Catechisme pour adultes, I, II (1929-30)

Pseud. “H. Delafosse”: - Le quatrième évangile (1925) - Les écrits de Saint Paul (4 vols., 1926-28) - Les Lettres d’Ignace d’Antioche (1927)

J. Turmel: - Histoire du Diable (1931) - Comment j’ai donné congé aux dogmes (1935)

~Hannen Swaffer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannen_Swaffer

TEACHINGS OF SILVER BIRCH

http://www.amazon.com/Teachings-Silver-Birch-W-Austen/dp/B000RIUWYY

http://continuityoflife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Teachings-of-Silver-birch.pdf

~Harry Elmer Barnes

"Biblical criticism, applied to the New Testament, has removed the element of supernaturalism…”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Elmer_Barnes

~Charles Virolleaud

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Virolleaud

La légende du Christ

http://www.amazon.com/l%C3%A9gende-du-Christ-French/dp/B00387EZE4

https://archive.org/details/MN42086ucmf_1

http://www.worldcat.org/title/legende-du-christ/oclc/48188216

La Civilisation phénicienne (1933)

La Mythologie phénicienne (1938)

~Constantin François de Chassebœuf, comte de Volney

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantin-Fran%C3%A7ois_Chasseb%C5%93uf

~Emil Felden

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_Felden

Books

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Emil%20Felden

~Tony Bushby

Christ on Trial

http://www.amazon.com/Christ-Trial-Tony-Bushby-ebook/dp/B00BH1FNAI

The Bible Fraud: An Untold Story of Jesus Christ by Tony Bushby (Jan 15, 2001)

http://www.amazon.com/Bible-Fraud-Untold-Story-Christ/dp/0957900716

~Michael O. Wise

https://www.unwsp.edu/web/bats-dept/michael-o-wise

The First Messiah: Investigating the Savior Before Jesus

http://www.amazon.com/The-First-Messiah-Investigating-Savior/dp/0060696451

~Arthur M. Rothstein

The Jesus Idea

http://www.amazon.com/The-Jesus-Idea-Arnold-Rothstein/dp/0879758627

~Frank Dobbins

False Gods Or The Idol Worship Of The World

http://www.amazon.com/False-Gods-Idol-Worship-World/dp/1162983744

Story of the world's worship;: A complete, graphic and comparative history of the many strange beliefs, superstitious practices, domestic ... from the birth of man to the present day

http://www.amazon.com/Story-worlds-worship-comparative-superstitious/dp/B00085BFBK

~R.G. Price

Jesus - A Very Jewish Myth

http://www.lulu.com/shop/rg-price/jesus-a-very-jewish-myth/ebook/product-17510469.html

http://www.lulu.com/shop/rg-price/jesus-a-very-jewish-myth/paperback/product-2079912.html

http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_myth_history.htm

~Klaus Schilling

http://www.egodeath.com/BollandGospelJesus.htm

~Andrzej Niemojewski

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrzej_Niemojewski

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Andrzej+Niemojewski

~Livio C. Stecchini & Jan Sammer

The Gospel According to Seneca

http://www.metrum.org/gosen/fromtraggospel.htm

~Abelard Reuchlin

The true authorship of the New Testament

http://www.amazon.com/The-true-authorship-New-Testament/dp/0930808029

http://www.ivantic.net/Ostale_knjiige/TrueAuthorship.pdf

~Paul-Eric Blanrue

"le secret du suaire ; autopsie d'une escroquerie"

http://www.amazon.com/secret-suaire-autopsie-dune-escroquerie/dp/2756400637

http://www.abebooks.fr/secret-suaire-autopsie-dune-escroquerie-Paul-Eric/7699120924/bd

~C. Dennis McKinsey

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_McKinsey

Biblical Errancy: A Reference Guide

http://www.amazon.com/Biblical-Errancy-Reference-Dennis-Mckinsey/dp/1573928089

The Encyclopedia of Biblical Errancy

http://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Biblical-Errancy-Dennis-Mckinsey/dp/0879759267

~Friedrich Nork (pen name Zelig Kohn)

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nork

Myths of the ancient Persians. The sources of Christian beliefs and rituals. After the individual intimations of the Church Fathers and some more recent scholars to the First Male systematically lined up. Leipzig 1835

http://tinyurl.com/nwvsh25

~Gilbert T. Sadler

The Origin and Meaning of Christianity

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Origin-Meaning-Christianity-Gilbert-Thomas/dp/B0017WEWJK

http://www.worldcat.org/title/origin-and-meaning-of-christianity/oclc/492358569

The Gnostic story of Jesus Christ

http://www.worldcat.org/title/gnostic-story-of-jesus-christ/oclc/27898926/editions?referer=di&editionsView=true

Behind the New Testament

http://www.worldcat.org/title/behind-the-new-testament/oclc/12755366

~Thomas Paine

http://www.biography.com/people/thomas-paine-9431951

http://www.historyguide.org/intellect/paine.html

Pamphleteer who made the first call for American independence (Common Sense, 1776; Rights of Man, 1791) Paine poured savage ridicule on the contradictions and atrocities of the Bible. Like many American revolutionaries Paine was a deist:

1795, The Age of Reason

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of ... Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."  – The Age of Reason.

http://tinyurl.com/k8t9dvs

The Official jesus Challenge: http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtlwRJgf

The jesus Birther Movement (jBM) Research Database Directory

 http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtaKiFCa

Research Articles, Evidence and Videos that Prove a Historical jesus, NEVER Existed

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtmSTwHN

https://www.facebook.com/JesusBirtherMovement 

http://www.facebook.com/JesusBirtherMovement/info

Please Join Pages In Our ExposingReligion Network

http://exposingreligionblog.tumblr.com/post/20825271431

See an organized listing of all of our research: 

This is the 2nd article of our 12 part research:

Debunking the Fraudulent christian Apologist List of Extra-biblical but non-contemporary, claimed “sources” used as jesus “evidence.” (Jewish, “Pagan,” Non-christian, “Secular”)

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtmt2ygH

Christian Apologist Jewish “Secular Source Evidence” for Historical jesus #1: Josephus 

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtmtJioQ

Here are the 17 jesus characters:

1. Jesus, son of Phabes – High priest. Ant 15.322 2. Jesus, son of Ananus – Common man prophesied destruction of the temple. War 6.300 3. Jesus, or Jason – High priest. Ant 12.239 4. Jesus, son of Sapphias – Governor of Tiberias. War 2.566, War 2.599; Life 1.066, Life 1.134 5. Jesus, brother of Onias – High priest. Ant 12.237, Ant 12.238, Ant 12.239 6. Jesus, son of Gamaliel – High priest. Ant 20.213, Ant 20.223 7. Jesus, no patronym – Eldest high priest after Ananus. War 4.238, War 4.316, War 4.325 8. Jesus, son of Damneus – High priest. Ant 20.203 9. Jesus, son of Gamala – High priest & Josephus’ friend. War 4.160; Life 1.193, Life 1.204 10. Jesus, [or Joshua] son of Nun – Successor to Moses. Ant 03.049, Ant 03.308; Ant 4.459 11. Jesus, son of Shapat – Principal head of a band of robbers controlling Tiberias, sallies against Vespasian's messenger Valerian. War 3.450 12. Jesus, son of Thebuthus – One of the priests, delivers to Titus precious things deposited in the temple. War 6.387 13. Jesus, son of Josadek – High priest. Ant 20.231, Ant 20.234 14. Jesus, no patronym – Galilean at head of a band of 600 followers, sent by Ananus & Jesus to depose Josephus. Life 1.200 15. Jesus, no patronym – Condemned to cross by Pilate. He was [the] Christ. Ant 18.063 16. Jesus, no patronym – Captain of those robbers who were in the confines of Ptolemais, allies with Josephus. Life 1.105 *17. Jesus, brother of Jacob – Called the Christ. Ant 20.200

The big question is: If Josephus really mentioned jesus of the NT in a few sentences of:

The Testimonium Flavianum (meaning the testimony of Flavius Josephus) Book 18, Chapter 3, 3 and The Antiquities of the Jews (Book 20, Chapter 9, 1), like christians claim, then why did Josephus say so little about the most famous person in history? Why did he discuss all the other unknown jesus characters more than the most famous?

Why would Josephus write so much more about John the Baptist in his Antiquities of the Jews (Book 18, Chapter 5, 2)?

Further details and locations of the jesus characters:

Jewish Antiquities

03:049 (numerous) Jesus [Joshua] son of Nun. 11:298 Jesus, (son of Eliashib), brother of John – friend of governor Bagoses. 11:299 Jesus, [son of Eliashib] – slain by brother John, the High priest. 11:300 Jesus, [son of Eliashib] 11:301 Jesus, [son of Eliashib] – slain by brother John, the High priest. 12:237 Jesus, brother of Onias III – High priest. 12:238 Jesus, brother of Onias III – Deposed as High priest in favor of Onias = Menelaus 12:239 Jesus, younger brother of Onias = Menelaus – High priest. 12:239 Jesus, brother of Onias III – Renamed Jason. Revolts against Onias = Menelaus. 15:041 Jesus, (brother of Onias III) 15:322 Jesus, son of Phabes – High priest. 17:341 Jesus, the son of Sie – High priest. 18:063 Jesus, no patronym – Condemned to cross by Pilate. He was [the] Christ. 20:200 Jesus, brother of Jacob – Called the Christ. 20:203 Jesus, son of Damneus – High priest. 20:205 Jesus, [son of Damneus] – High priest. 20:213 Jesus, son of Gamaliel – High priest. 20.213 Jesus, son of Damneus – Deposed as High priest. 20:223 Jesus, son of Gamaliel – High priest. 20:234 Jesus, son of Josadek – High priest.

The Jewish War

2:566 Jesus, son of Sapphias – Governor of Tiberias. 2:599 Jesus, son of Sapphias – Governor of Tiberias. 3:450 Jesus, son of Shapat – Principal head of a band of robbers controlling Tiberias. 3:452 Jesus, [son of Shapat] 3:457 Jesus, [son of Shapat] – Departs Tiberius to Taricheae 3:467 Jesus, [son of Shapat] 3:498 Jesus, [son of Shapat] 4:160 Jesus, son of Gamala – Best esteemed, with Ananus ben Ananus, of High priests. 4:238 Jesus, no patronym – Eldest high priest after Ananus. 4:270 Jesus, no patronym – [Eldest high priest after Ananus]. 4:283 Jesus, no patronym – [Eldest high priest after Ananus]. 4:316 Jesus, no patronym – [Eldest high priest after Ananus]. 4:322 Jesus, no patronym – [Eldest high priest after Ananus]. 4:325 Jesus, no patronym – [Eldest high priest after Ananus]. 4:459 Jesus [Joshua] son of Nun. 6:114 Jesus, no patronym – High priest, deserts to Vespasian. 6:300 Jesus, son of Ananus – Common man prophesied destruction of the temple. 6:387 Jesus, son of Thebuthus – One of the priests, deserts to Titus.

The Life of Flavius Josephus, or Autobiography of Flavius Josephus

1:066 Jesus, son of Sapphias – Governor of Tiberias. 1:067 Jesus, son of Sapphias – [Governor of Tiberias.] 1:105 Jesus, no patronym – Captain of those robbers in the confines of Ptolemais. 1:108 Jesus, no patronym – [Captain of those robbers in the confines of Ptolemais.] 1:109 Jesus, no patronym – [Captain of those robbers in the confines of Ptolemais.] 1:110 Jesus, no patronym – [Captain of those robbers in the confines of Ptolemais.] 1:134 Jesus, son of Sapphias – Governor of Tiberias. 1:178 Jesus, no patronym – Brother of Justus of Tiberias. 1:186 Jesus, no patronym – Brother of Justus of Tiberias. 1:193 Jesus, son of Gamala – High priest & Josephus’ friend. 1:200 Jesus, no patronym – Galilean at head of a band of 600, sent to depose Josephus. 1:204 Jesus, son of Gamala – High priest & Josephus’ friend. 1:246 Jesus, no patronym – Owned a house big as a castle. Governor of Tiberias? 1:271 Jesus, no patronym – Governor of Tiberias. 1:278 Jesus, no patronym – [Governor of Tiberias.] 1:294 Jesus, no patronym – [Governor of Tiberias.] 1:295 Jesus, no patronym – [Governor of Tiberias.] 1:300 Jesus, no patronym – [Governor of Tiberias.] 1:301 Jesus, no patronym – [Governor of Tiberias.]

These lists were compiled by Freethinkaluva22 of www.freethoughtnation.com

To read the works of Josephus:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/josephus/index.htm

*17. Jesus, brother of Jacob – Called the Christ. Ant 20.200

The transliterated form of “Jacob” (Iakob) is used twenty—seven times in the NT, twenty-five times of the patriarch Jacob and twice of the father of Joseph the supposed father of Jesus (Matt. 1:15-16; in Luke 3:23 the father of Joseph is named “Eli”). The other forty-three references in the NT use the Hellenized form Iakobos, which in English editions is translated as “James.” About half of these identify James the brother of John and son of Zebedee. About one fourth of them probably refer to James the brother of the Lord. The remaining references relate to figures often difficult to identify or distinguish.In addition to the patriarch Jacob, Josephus mentions four other people named Iakobos. The names of these four are translated as "James" in the Loeb Classical Library edition of Josephus. Yet Josephus uses the same Hellenized declinable form of the name for the patriarch Jacob! The other four are James the son of Judas the Galilean (Ant. 20.5.5 §102), James the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ (Ant. 20.9.1 §200), James the bodyguard of Josephus (Vita 18 §96; 46 §240), and James the Idumean leader and son of Sosas (J.W. 4.4.2 §235; 4.9.6 §§521-28; 5.6.1 §249; 6.1.8 §92; 6.2.6 §148; 6.8.2 §380). These four are more or less contemporaries of Josephus. This is no justification for translating their names as anything but "Jacob."-James and Jude (Paideia: Commentaries on the New Testament) by Dr. John Painter and Dr. David A. deSilva.

The Official jesus Challenge: http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtlwRJgf

The jesus Birther Movement (jBM) Research Database Directory

 http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtaKiFCa

Research Articles, Evidence and Videos that Prove a Historical jesus, NEVER Existed

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtmSTwHN

https://www.facebook.com/JesusBirtherMovement 

http://www.facebook.com/JesusBirtherMovement/info

Please Join Pages In Our ExposingReligion Network

http://exposingreligionblog.tumblr.com/post/20825271431

See an organized listing of all of our research: 

Jesus myth theory

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Jesus_myth_theory

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the_historical_existence_of_Jesus_Christ#Apologists.27_evidence

In the 1940’s, the term mythicist for “one who denies the existence of Jesus” is first used by both A. D. Howell Smith and Archibald Robertson.

Personally, I cannot stand the terms Mythicism or Mythicist and do not use them, but some people embrace the labels.

WHAT IS MYTHICISM?

http://www.mythicistpapers.com/2012/11/14/what-is-mythicism/

http://www.mythicistpapers.com/about/

What is a Mythicist?

http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/mythicist.html

Mythicism

http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Mythicism

Who is Mythicist Milwaukee?

http://mythicistmke.publishpath.com/

The Jesus Mythicist Campaign

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forums/religionandirrationalities/jesusmythicistcampaign

Wiki articles on this subject are very biased and one-sided toward christianity:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Denial_of_the_Historicity_of_Jesus_in_Past_and_Present

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_Criticism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Jesus

Take The Official jesus Challenge here: 

https://www.facebook.com/JesusBirtherMovement

The jesus Birther Movement (jBM) Research Database Directory 

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtaKiFCa

https://www.facebook.com/JesusBirtherMovement

http://www.facebook.com/JesusBirtherMovement/info

Pics: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.479618288746003.105913.195326073841894&type=3

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=498602303514268

Please Join Pages In Our ExposingReligion Network

http://exposingreligionblog.tumblr.com/post/20825271431

Replacing the fraudulent-commercial images of je$u$ with truthful ones

http://www.facebook.com/FixingJesusImages

See an organized listing of ALL of our research: 

This research will expose the fraud and violence of these christian blood and death cult holidays.

The christians don't have dates for their fictional jesus' claimed:

Birth Crucifixion-Execution Resurrection Ascension

So, christians just made them up.

Good Friday is observed on the Friday before Easter Sunday.

Calvary or Golgotha was, according to the Gospels, a site immediately outside Jerusalem's walls where fictional jesus was crucified.

Many christians spend this day in fasting, prayer, repentance, and meditation on the agony and suffering of fictional christ on the cross.

See our memes:

Avatar Meme:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=563183033722861

Fictional jesus tale:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=467251653316000

jesus the Lich King of the Zombies https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.520880214619810.1073741825.195326073841894

Zombie jesus https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.195802210460947.38603.195326073841894

Happy Easter: Corpse-Reanimation, Resurrection & Ascension https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.694166827291147.1073741842.195326073841894

Cruci-Fiction, Torture & Execution of Fictional jesus https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.521500351224463.1073741827.195326073841894

For more info:

Ephesians 1:11 ► In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will... http://biblehub.com/ephesians/1-11.htm

Free-will and god's plan meme: https://www.facebook.com/OffYourKnees/photos/a.297046523750189.71654.281046828683492/297029883751853/

RAPTURE - End Times - Armageddon - Apocalypse - Tribulation -Zombies - Everything you need to know http://exposingreligionblog.tumblr.com/post/10856900495

The bible claims that Zombies are real, have existed and will walk the Earth again! What are Zombies and how can we defend against them! http://exposingreligionblog.tumblr.com/post/10996326581

The bible and cannibalism http://exposingreligionblog.tumblr.com/post/24440062381

The jesus Birther Movement (jBM) Research Database Directory: http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtaKiFCa

Proving that the bible is in fact a historical fiction: http://tmblr.co/ZTwOHxpMgxHB

http://www.zombiejesusday.org/Home.aspx

Zombie Jesus Lives! - Eat my Flesh, Drink my Blood http://www.zombiejesus.com/

Historicity of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ http://atheism.about.com/cs/easter/a/xt_j_eastrchall.htm

Leave No Stone Unturned - An Easter Challenge For Christians http://ffrf.org/legacy/books/lfif/?t=stone

The biblical account of jesus' death on the cross, or crucifixion, his burial and his resurrection, raising from the dead or reanimation, can be found in the following passages of scripture:

Matthew 27-28 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+27-28&version=NIV

Mark 15-16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+15-16&version=NIV

Luke 23-24 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+23-24&version=NIV

John 19-20 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john+19-20&version=NIV

1 Corinthians 15

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2015&version=NIV

Great Video: The God who wasn't there 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik7GRQ9hoVY 

@ 25:00, the Crucifixion Passion is discussed.

Good Friday is calculated differently in Eastern christianity and Western christianity. Easter falls on the first Sunday following the Paschal Full Moon, the full moon on or after 21 March, taken to be the date of the vernal equinox. The Western calculation uses the Gregorian calendar, while the Eastern calculation uses the Julian calendar, whose 21 March now corresponds to the Gregorian calendar's 3 April. The calculations for identifying the date of the full moon also differ.

In Eastern christianity, Easter can fall between March 22 and April 25 on Julian Calendar (thus between April 4 and May 8 in terms of the Gregorian calendar, during the period 1900 and 2099), so Good Friday can fall between March 20 and April 23, inclusive (or between April 2 and May 6 in terms of the Gregorian calendar).

Sunday is Zombie Day AKA jesus Lich Day!!!!! Come celebrate the original buy-bull Zombie Apocalypse found in Matthew 27:51-53 - "51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. 52 The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus’ resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people."

Contradictions

Trial of Jesus: Contradictions in the Gospel Accounts of Jesus' Arrest, Trials

http://atheism.about.com/od/gospelcontradictions/p/TrialJesus.htm

Crucifixion of Jesus: Contradictions in Gospel Accounts of Jesus' Crucifixion

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/passover_meal.html

http://atheism.about.com/od/gospelcontradictions/p/Crucifixion.htm

http://www.nairaland.com/857842/crucifixion-jesus-contradictions-gospel-accounts

http://findingtruth.info/2011/03/17/contradictions-part-8-the-crucifixion/

http://www.nairaland.com/844081/difficulties-contradictions-problems-crucifixion-tale

10 Reasons the Crucifixion Story Makes No Sense

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/2012/04/10-reasons-the-crucifixion-story-makes-no-sense/

Was the crucifixion of Jesus a sacrifice? http://polyskeptic.com/2009/06/17/was-the-crucifixion-of-jesus-a-sacrifice/

Jesus' crucifixion wasn't much of a sacrifice. http://www.examiner.com/article/jesus-crucifixion-wasn-t-much-of-a-sacrifice

Crucifying the Crucifixion http://atheistexperience.blogspot.com/2007/02/crucifying-crucifixion.html

Jesus' death... standard Roman execution or sacrifice for sins? http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread808301/pg1

Krishna Crucified? by Acharya S/D.M. Murdock

http://www.truthbeknown.com/kcrucified.htm

Was Horus "Crucified?" by D.M. Murdock/Acharya S

http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/washoruscrucified.html

Jesus' Resurrection & Ascension: Contradictions in Resurrection, Ascension

http://atheism.about.com/od/gospelcontradictions/p/Resurrection.htm

Women at the Tomb? Weak Evidence for the Resurrection.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/2012/04/women-at-the-tomb-weak-evidence-for-the-resurrection/

Contradictions in the Resurrection Account

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/2012/04/contradictions-in-the-resurrection-account-2/

Bible Contradictions: The Resurrection Of Jesus - The Atheist Experience #600

http://www.veoh.com/watch/v18237107X6gd4agG?h1=Bible+Contradictions%3A+The+Resurrection+Of+Jesus+-+The+Atheist+Experience+%23600

Why I Don't Buy the Resurrection Story - Richard Carrier

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/resurrection/lecture.html

Comparison Chart: Biblical Accounts of the Resurrection

http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/charts/resurrection_accounts.htm

Regarding Jesus' death, the bible gives an account of Jesus being captured and handed over to the Romans to be crucified like a common criminal. This method of crucifixion seemed to be a standard Roman execution procedure, as two criminals were also crucified next to Jesus.

However, it seems Christianity has woven in a "ritualistic" meaning to Jesus' execution, in holding that the crucifixion was to take away the sins of the whole world. Hence, the idea that one can be "saved" by believing that Jesus died for their sins.

Some Christians even compare Jesus execution to the ritual sin-sacrifice of unblemished animals in the Old Testament to conclude that Jesus, being without sin, was the unblemished "sacrifice" to take away the sins of the world.

On one hand, the bibles account of the crucifixion shows that it was a standard Roman execution... the result of people who wanted Jesus dead. And on the other hand, Christian doctrine maintains that Jesus' execution was a sin-sacrifice, which removes ones sins if they just believe that Jesus died for their sins.

Christian doctrine of the sin sacrifice is not at all rooted in the biblical account of Jesus crucifixion, because at no point did Jesus, (whether before his arrest/during his trial/ on the cross) ever declare he was going to be crucified for the sins of people, and that all who believe so will be "saved". So the idea that he was a sin sacrifice seems to be a later insertion, much after Jesus execution. In other words, there is no connect between what Christians believe about Jesus' sin-sacrifice on the cross and the bible account of the crucifixion.

I've also noticed that the verses used to support this idea of Jesus' sin sacrifice are mainly from sources other than Jesus himself. So, are christians risking taking someone elses word as the truth, just because its bound in the bible and ignoring the fact that Jesus never said anything that even remotely resembles anything about the doctrine of the sin sacrifice.?

Doubting Jesus’ Resurrection http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=5158

Bible: Outrageous Resurrection Account -- Gospel of Matthew http://conversationalatheist.com/christianity/matthew-resurrection-account/

The Contemporary Debate on the Resurrection http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_lowder/jesus_resurrection/chap4.html

Jesus died for your sins http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Jesus_died_for_your_sins

Proof #50 - Ask Jesus to appear

Just about everyone knows the story of Jesus' death and resurrection. The story is summarized in the Apostles' Creed. Jesus was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell. On the third day he arose again from the dead.

There is only one way for Jesus to prove that he rose from the dead. He had to appear to people. Therefore, several different places in the Bible describe Jesus' appearances after his death:

http://godisimaginary.com/i50.htm

A Resurrection Debate - G.A. Wells

The New Testament Evidence in Evangelical and in Critical Perspective

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/g_a_wells/resurrection.html

Will the Dead Walk Again? http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-coming-resurrection-of-the-dead

Why the Crucifixion of Jesus was a Waste and Rejected as Atonement by Yahweh (God)

http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2012/06/why-crucifixion-of-jesus-was-waste-and.html

The Dying Messiah Redux

http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/1440

New Testament Narrative as Old Testament Midrash Robert M. Price (see #39-43)

http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/art_midrash1.htm

Argument # 7: The Resurrection of Jesus Christ Argument.

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/DebunkingChristians/Page11.htm

Puzzling details about Jesus' crucifixion

Jesus' trial and the process leading up to the crucifixion are puzzling to say the least. It's highly likely that the gospels paint a sanitized, exculpatory picture of what actually happened (assuming that it did). Romans held to the belief that the people of whatever country they had taken over were free to worship whatever gods or animals they wished, provided they accepted the sovereignty of Rome and the Emperor. Put simply: The Romans were always very careful to avoid becoming involved in the internal religious/political quarrels of the countries they occupied, unless there was a direct threat to public order or Roman authority. This was why, even though the Sanhedrin arrested Jesus and condemned him death for blasphemy, they brought him before Pontius Pilate on charges of sedition, that he had declared himself "the King of the Jews." Some call the account of Jesus' death in the Gospels a stunt to appease the Romans, that Pilate acts blamelessly at all times but is forced to execute Jesus by the Jewish mob.

The gospels contradict each other on when the crucifixion took place, the synoptic gospels have Jesus crucified on the day of Passover, while John puts the crucifixion on the day before. Passover is the second-holiest of Jewish holidays, a time of forgiveness, making the story that the Jews would condemn a man to death on Passover difficult to believe. Even more problematic is the trial of Jesus which, if the Gospels are credible, violated all of the laws of the Sanhedrin (the Jewish body of judges). Moreover, the gospels say he was crucified on a cross, whereas Acts 5:30 says he was "slew and hanged on a tree."

The biblical account of Jesus' crucifixion states that nails were driven through his hands. In Luke 24:39, a post-resurrection Jesus invites his disciples to inspect the nail holes in his hands and his feet. In John 20:24-27, Jesus invites Thomas to stick his finger into the nail holes in Jesus' hands. Some argue that the weight of a human being hung from a cross with nails driven through his palms would tear the hands off the crucified. However, it is perfectly possible that the Romans (purveyors of sanitation, education, public health, public order, roads, wine, aqueducts, military strategy centuries ahead of its time, and other good shit in general) mastered the art of tying arms to wood to hold people in place. The crosses also traditionally had a small step jutting out beneath the feet. This would provide both a source of relief for the stress placed on the arms and hands as well as a handy (ahem) spot to nail the feet to.

Another curiosity is Jesus' nail and spear wounds, considering that the resurrection process presumably would not de-deadify a man only to leave him in his still broken body. Jesus' pending ascension, however, might explain this significant oversight.

Crucifixion was perhaps the most drawn-out form of execution ever devised. The condemned often lingered for days in agonizing pain. When the condemned grew tired, they hung limp, stretching out the diaphragm and making it impossible to inhale. The condemned then pulled themselves up by the nails through their wrists/hands. They could breathe as long as they held themselves up in this fashion. Eventually, somebody would break their legs to put them out of their misery, causing them to collapse and suffocate. The Romans then left the body on the cross for days allowing scavengers to pick at it as a warning to would-be insurrectionists. The problems:

1. After only a few hours on the cross, Jesus cried out, "It is finished" and "died." Was he in such poor health that he died so quickly? Probably so. He did have to drag the cross to Calvary, falling three times, after having been flogged on several occasions, earlier that day; this isn't exactly conducive to being nailed to things.

2. According to John 19:31, the Jews asked Pontius Pilate to send a centurion to break the legs of Jesus and the two thieves crucified with him so the three of them could die and be entombed before the Sabbath began. This seems an odd request. Pilate granting their request is equally odd. Since the Romans used crucifixion to intimidate their subjects, isn't it logical that Pilate would say "no" and allow the bodies to remain on their crosses at a time that Jewish law would have required them to be wrapped and entombed? If this was a request normally granted to the Jews on the Sabbath, why would the Romans schedule these crucifixions mere hours before the Sabbath began? Wouldn't they wait until the Sabbath was over and then crucify Jesus and the two thieves?

The three-hours of darkness upon Jesus' death around Passover cannot have happened because Passover is celebrated around the time of a full moon. Solar eclipses only occur at the time of a new moon. David Nineham, author of The Gospel of St. Mark, notes that similar portents are claimed to have marked the deaths of Julius Caesar and other pagan figures, and also some of the great rabbis. In order to get round the problem that no eclipse occurred at the time of the crucifixion some Christians claim it was a metaphor instead of an actual historical account. Albeit, Mark does not actually call it a solar eclipse.

Videos:

Misquoting Jesus: Crucifixion and Resurrection Discrepancies

A speech by Bart Ehrman at Stanford about the story behind who changed the bible and why and the history of the bible and how they got tainted. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U6QvFCXtIg

The Case Against the Resurrection (Bart D. Ehrman)

New Testament scholar Dr. Bart Ehrman explains problems with the resurrection accounts from a historical perspective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHJE7cetkB4

Writer and New Testament scholar Robert M. Price exposes some of the flawed reasoning of Christian apologist William Lane Craig. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq8DSMcFGEQ

Debates

ROBERT M. PRICE VS. WILLIAM LANE CRAIG http://www.debategod.org/index.php/rss-feed/67-robert-m-price-vs-william-lane-craig

Did Jesus Rise from the Dead? - Michael Licona vs Dan Barker http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNAU6uStmq0

Richard Carrier Vs Mike Licona UCLA 2004 The Resurrection of Jesus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpx2v17t3i4

Richard Carrier Vs Mike Licona 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1_GYR3xjPQ

Did Jesus Rise From The Dead - Bart Ehrman Vs William Lane Craig http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhT4IENSwac

Mike Licona debates Bart Ehrman a second time on the question "Can Historians Prove Jesus Rose from the Dead?" This debate took place at Southern Evangelical Seminary in Charlotte, NC http://vimeo.com/35235544

The Case Against the Resurrection (Arif Ahmed) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IakyR7ResSo

Did Jesus Rise Bodily from the Dead?: Gary Habermas vs Arif Ahmed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS6q-u6b9ys

William Lane Craig vs. Keith Parsons - Why I Am Or Am Not http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_TzNAxPBNk

The Resurrection: Historical Fact or Religious Invention?

A public discussion between Professor Gary Habermas and Kenneth Humphreys. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfDPLitAyd0

~The History of Easter: It’s all about Ishtar *Aeusos or Ushas is believed to have been the Goddess of dawn. This Goddess is so important that her name has several applications usually relating to the sun; the stars, especially Venus; hearth fires; and a class of Gods that ‘shine with a golden light’. In many countries this Goddess is celebrated with a festival in March, usually on the first Sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox. In English the festival is known as Easter, the way you pronounce the Anatolian version of the goddess’s name, Ishtar. Many European countries have traditions involving eggs. In most, they are hard–boiled and painted hens’ eggs, not chocolate ones. A good source of these old traditions is the Weistumer of the German speaking countries. These local bylaws indicated that the giving and painting of eggs was a pagan practice that earned disapproval. Later records indicate that the eggs were blessed in the church. It seems clear that if you can’t eliminate pagan practice, the Christian Church had learned that you might as well make it your own. Is Easter a Christian or Pagan Holiday? Unpacking the Pagan Elements of Easter http://atheism.about.com/od/easterholidayseason/p/PaganChristian.htm Happy Easter: Celebration of the Spring Equinoxhttp://www.nobeliefs.com/easter.htm The pagan roots of Easter From Ishtar to Eostre, the roots of the resurrection story go deep. We should embrace the pagan symbolism of Easter http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2010/apr/03/easter-pagan-symbolism Is Easter Christian or Pagan? http://www.truthbeknown.com/easter.htm Easter - Its Pagan origins http://www.religioustolerance.org/easter1.htm http://www.history.com/topics/holidays/history-of-easter Beyond Ishtar: The Tradition of Eggs at Easter http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/anthropology-in-practice/2013/03/31/beyond-ishtar-the-tradition-of-eggs-at-easter/ History to consider http://www.nobeliefs.com/facts.htm Eostre, Easter, Ostara, Eggs, and Bunnies http://www.patheos.com/blogs/panmankey/2013/03/eostre-easter-ostara-eggs-and-bunnies/ The Eostre Hares and Pagan Easter http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/easter/qt/EostreHare.htm

See an organized listing of all of our research:

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The jesus Birther Movement (jBM) Research Database Directory

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtaKiFCa

The Official jesus Challenge:

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Please Join Pages In Our ExposingReligion Network

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Fictional jesus the Lich King: Slavemaster of Brain-Eaten Zombie christians https://www.facebook.com/LichJesusZombie

The jesus Birther Movement (jBM)

https://www.facebook.com/JesusBirtherMovement

Replacing the fraudulent-commercial images of je$u$ with truthful ones http://www.facebook.com/FixingJesusImages

Fictional jesus Daily

Many christians of today, try to claim that the Old Testament or the Law was abolished by jesus. Ironically, they like to take verses out of context to do it. This is a claim that they often make against any scriptural criticism.

This research will use the Greek language and quotes from Paul and jesus to refute these claims.

"This claim is a scapegoat that Christians use to ignore the atrocities and bizarre laws commanded by their god. Their preachers spoon feed them that the Old Testament is no longer binding so that they can excuse the majority of evil that the bible promotes.  I am so tired of Christians manipulating the scriptures so that they can assign a kinder nature to their God, that I have assembled a BRIEF list of verses which clearly show that the Old Testament is not to be ignored. Its laws should indeed be adhered to, for the New Testament demands it!  After this section I shall list where the Bible contradicts itself concerning other laws." ~evilbible.com

What did the christian god say?

"...if you do not obey the LORD your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you:" ~The christian god, Deuteronomy 28

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+28

“‘But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands, 15 and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant, 16 then I will do this to you:" ~The christian god, Leviticus 26

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+26

"If you fear the Lord and serve and obey him and do not rebel against his commands, and if both you and the king who reigns over you follow the Lord your God—good! But if you do not obey the Lord, and if you rebel against his commands, his hand will be against you, as it was against your ancestors." 1 Samuel 12:14-15

"But if you turn away and forsake My statutes and My commandments which I have set before you, and go and serve other gods and worship them, 20then I will uproot you from My land" 2 Chronicles 7:19-20

"But if you refuse and rebel, You will be devoured by the sword." Truly, the mouth of the LORD has spoken." Isaiah 1:20

1) The Fulfillment of the Law is found in Matthew 5:17-20

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A17-20&version=NIV

Parallel Verses:

http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-17.htm

http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-18.htm

http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-19.htm

http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-20.htm

2) All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever.  "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid."  (Luke 16:17 NAB)

3) Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets.  He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament.  "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets.  I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.  Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place."  (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

3b) "All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..."  (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)

3c) "Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)

4) Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law.  Mark.7:9-13  "Whoever curses father or mother shall die"  (Mark 7:10 NAB)

5) Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating.  He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.”  (Matthew 15:4-7)

6) Jesus has a punishment even worse than his father concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole.  The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell.  (Matthew 5:27)

7) Peter says that all slaves should “be subject to [their] masters with all fear,” to the bad and cruel as well as the “good and gentle.”  This is merely an echo of the same slavery commands in the Old Testament. 1 Peter 2:18

8) “Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and “For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).

9) “...the scripture cannot be broken.” --Jesus Christ, John 10:35

http://www.evilbible.com/do_not_ignore_ot.htm

Attention Believers!  5 Lies You Should Know About the Bible…….

http://marionbible.com/sermons/fivelies.html

Another great article is called The New Testament teaches nothing New 

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/new.html

The Old Testament Scripture is still Binding

Christ used the Old Testament law, which were the “scriptures” of their day, to prove the validity of his own teachings and mission (Luke 24:27). Jesus said if people do not read "Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded" to repent (Luke 16:30-31). Jesus said to "search the Old Testament" and it testifies of Him (John 5:39). In Matthew 22:29-33, Jesus charged the Sadducees with the responsibility to understand the concept of the resurrection of the dead from the Old Testament scripture.

Were the Old Testament Scripture abolished at the Cross?

Paul expected believers to test his words using the Old Testament (Acts 17:11). Paul taught that the Old Testament scripture is “able to make thee wise unto salvation”, and is “profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness," so “That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works” (2 Tim.3:15-17). He said the Old Testament scripture was written for our learning so we might have hope (Romans 15:4). Paul quotes from the Old Testament scripture, saying it's for our sakes (1 Corinthians 9:9-10).

The apostle Paul kept stressing that the law of Moses was written for their well being. 1 Corinthians 9:9-10, "For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn…For our sakes, no doubt, this is written." Obviously, Paul did not look at the Mosaic Law as abolished after Jesus died.

Acts 17:10-12, "And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Therefore many of them believed..."

The brethren in Berea validated the apostles Paul and Silas every day. They verified their words with scripture. Dear reader, what scripture were they testing their words with? With the Old Testament scripture! What happened after they read the Old Testament scripture? Many of the believed! How? This is how:

Romans 10:17, "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

The Word of God, at that time, was the Old Testament scripture. It was not abolished at the cross!

The first disciple of Christ to be killed for his faith was Steven. He preached to his accusers just before he was stoned to death by them, and he preached directly from the Old Testament scripture (Acts 7).

Why should Christ tell the disciples to "Go and make disciples of all the nations...teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you" (Matthew 28:19-20) when most of what he had spoken was irrelevant because the old covenant was only to be in force while he was in the flesh? Turning to Paul, the clear implication of his citation of Genesis 15:6 and Habakkuk 2:4 (such as in Galatians 3:6, 11) is that men are saved the same way under both the Old Covenant and the New. He noted that "David also speaks of the blessing upon the man to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works" (Romans 4:6) before citing from Psalms 32, which implies that salvation of the Old Testament was like that of the New Testament.

The role of the law or obedience relative to salvation or justification was the same for the Jews before the crucifixion as it is for bondservants of Christ today in God's sight, even if Jewish tradition and the oral law saw it otherwise. Consider that when Paul wrote this to Timothy that parts of the New Testament did not yet exist, or at least had not been likely all gathered together: "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness..." (II Timothy 3:16). Having made in the preceding verses a reference to Timothy being raised a believer in the true God through the "sacred writings" (II Timothy 3:14-15), Paul obviously primarily had the Old Testament in mind when he wrote this. If the Old Testament is so largely irrelevant to believers in Christ, why would Paul say this, after citing the Exodus and Israel wandering in the wilderness: "Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come" (I Corinthians 10:11; compare I Corinthians 10:6 and Romans 4:23-24).

More Old Testament laws that Remain:

The New Testament command to be circumcised of heart (Romans 2:29; Colossians 2:11) is an Old Testament doctrine (Deuteronomy 10:16; 30:6; Jeremiah, 4:4, Leviticus 26:41).

James 2:10, “sin in one, guilty of all” (see also Galatians 3:10 and Matthew 26:66) is from Deuteronomy 27:26.

1 John 3:4, "sin is the transgression of the law" (see also Romans 4:15 and James 2:9) can be seen in 1 Samuel 15:24 and Daniel 9:11.

The command for believers to not marry unbelievers (1 Corinthians 7:39, 2 Corinthians 6:14) is found in Deuteronomy 7:3.

When Jesus said, at Matthew 7:14, "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." this was a different way to re-phrase Deuteronomy 5:32.

Matthew 22:36-40, "Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." is taken, word for word, from Deuteronomy 6:5, "And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." and Leviticus 19:18, "...thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself..."

Jesus did not replace the Law, nor give any new commandment, which is why He said:

1 John 2:7, "Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning."

~We will be quoting a great deal from this christian website,

http://www.the-ten-commandments.org/jesus_fulfilled_the_moral_law.html

who does a great job with this question: 

In Matthew 5:17, jesus assures us that He did not come to destroy the law but to fulfil it. In verse 19, He states that we are not only to obey the law but we are to teach it also. 

~If fulfill meant to destroy or abolish the law;

Starting with verse 17 of King James:

This is what Jesus would effectively be saying, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to DESTROY THE LAW but I have come to DESTROY THE LAW. Now that I have come to fulfil the law and hence destroy the law, I am telling you that till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall, that is, not the crossing of a “t” or the dotting of an “i” shall in NO wise pass from the law that I am ending. And since fulfilling the law ends and destroys the law, I am telling you that whosoever therefore shall BREAK ONE of these least Commandments shall be referred to as least by those in the kingdom, and since I am abolishing the law, I am telling you that you are now to TEACH THE LAW also that I am abolishing.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A17-20&version=KJV

Does that make sense? No one in their right mind could possibly say that this makes one iota of common sense or logic. One could not have a more absurd load of absolute nonsense and contradictory statements if one tried. 

The Greek word used for fulfil in Matthew 5:17 means to do fully or to give full meaning, and to be obeyed as it should be. Clearly what we do not see in this passage is Jesus destroying the law as He informed us He would not do, but what we do observe is Jesus giving the law its full meaning by obeying and magnifying the law.

Pleroo Thayer definition:

2c3) to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment.

Fulfill, from the Greek word pleroo, also means "to expound upon it, to elucidate (illuminate, illustrate), to explain, to give the full and true meaning, to bring to realization, realize" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon). 

http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/pleroo.html

http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Lexicon.show/ID/G4137/pleroo.htm

Jesus certainly did not come to destroy the law; He obeyed and carried out the law to the full and magnified it! 

Where in the Old Testament does it say that Jesus would end the law or even one Commandment such as the fourth Commandment of the Sabbath? It does not! Since this passage is actually showing Jesus magnifying the law, we should have an Old Testament prophet telling us that Jesus would in fact magnify the law. Does this scripture exist? It has to and does! We should not be strangers to this fact as we are given a Messianic prophecy that tells us that Christ would in fact do exactly this, and there is no mistaking that this is precisely what Jesus is doing in Matthew 5 and not destroying or ending the law as we are told ever so clear that He was not going to do.

Isaiah 42:21 “The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will MAGNIFY the law, and make it honourable.”

http://biblehub.com/isaiah/42-21.htm

We are told the law would be magnified and made honourable, not destroyed. In the remainder of Matthew chapter 5 we see how Jesus has without a doubt magnified the law. We note the following; Matthew 5:19 from not only obeying the law but teaching it also.

Does this give the impression that fulfilling the law ends the law? If this were true then all the following things have also ended. Our Joy, our Righteousness, the Word of God, the Scriptures and our obedience just to name a few. Obviously this is not possible.

Does Christ fulfilling the law end the Moral law?

Below are some of the other things that would have also ended if this Greek word “fulfil” meant to bring an end to the law. Consider what these scriptures would say if “fulfil” meant to “end.” These following scriptures all use the same Greek word G4137.

Matthew 3:15 “…it becometh us to fulfil [end] all righteousness.”

John 17:13 “…that they might have my joy fulfilled [ended] in themselves.”

2 Thessalonians 1:11 “…and fulfil [end] all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power.”

Philippians 2:2 “fulfil [end] you my joy, that you be likeminded, having the same love…”

John 17:12 “…that the scripture might be fulfilled [ended].”

Colossians 1:25 “…which is given to me for you, to fulfil [end] the word of God.”

2 Corinthians 10:6 “…having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled [ended].”

The following verse is the Biblical definition for sin:

1 John 3:4 “Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.”

Romans 4:15 “Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.”

"If there is no law, then there can be no transgression of the law, which is what sin is. Therefore, evil could freely reign and our Saviour would be obsolete. Who needs a Saviour to save us from our sin when there is no sin? We do not even need to repent of sin anymore, as without a law there can be no transgression of the law, which defines what sin is. Does the Bible say sin is gone? Does Paul say we can now sin that we are under Grace? Remember that sin is transgression of the law and if there is no law then there can be no sin. If there is sin then there has to be a law. It is that simple." ~the-ten-commandments.org

Just for a quick point revision, here are some of those reasons previously covered why “fulfil” does not abolish the law.

If this were so, then our Joy, our Righteousness, the Word of God, the Scriptures and our obedience would also be gone just to name a few. Our “righteousness” and our “Joy” and the “Scriptures” do still exist I hope!

Jesus would be contradicting Himself extremely seriously more than ten times in Matthew chapter five.

You cannot be told to obey a law that is abolished or does not exist.

You cannot teach obedience to a law that does not exist. How do you teach how to obey a non-existent law?

If there was no law then there could be no sin and we would not require a Saviour and someone to intercede on our behalf with the Father for our sins. We do still have to repent of our sins don't we? Some would say no!

Isaiah 42:21 says that Jesus came to magnify the law. There is nothing that says or was prophesied that Jesus came to abolish the law or even one Commandment.

The Greek word for “fulfil” used in verse 17 means to make full or to give full meaning. Fulfilling the law as per Matthew 5:17 does not mean to abolish.

How can the law that is NOT void be ended that we also have to establish and be doers of? Romans 3:31; Romans 2:13.

http://www.the-ten-commandments.org/jesus_fulfilled_the_moral_law.html

~Lots of verses are used to try to free christians from the Old Testament:

Ephesians 2:14

For Christ himself has brought peace to us. He united Jews and Gentiles into one people when, in his own body on the cross, he broke down the wall of hostility that separated us.

http://biblehub.com/ephesians/2-14.htm

Ephesians 2:15

He did this by ending the system of law with its commandments and regulations. He made peace between Jews and Gentiles by creating in himself one new people from the two groups.

http://biblehub.com/ephesians/2-15.htm

What are Gentiles?

The word Gentiles means the nations, and eventually came to be used to mean all those not of the house of Israel. It is first used in Genesis with reference to the descendants of Japheth (Gen. 10: 2-5). As used throughout the scriptures it has a dual meaning, sometimes to designate peoples of non-Israelite lineage, and other times to designate nations that are without the gospel, even though there may be some Israelite blood therein. This latter usage is especially characteristic of the word as used in the Book of Mormon.

~Romans 3

19 Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God. 20 For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are.

Christ Took Our Punishment

21 But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses and the prophets long ago.

http://biblehub.com/romans/3-21.htm

22 We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.

23 For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. 24 Yet God freely and graciously declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. 25 For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, 26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.

27 Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith. 28 So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.

29 After all, is God the God of the Jews only? Isn’t he also the God of the Gentiles? Of course he is. 30 There is only one God, and he makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles.

31 Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.

http://biblehub.com/romans/3-31.htm

~Romans 4 - The Faith of Abraham

Romans 4:13

Clearly, God's promise to give the whole earth to Abraham and his descendants was based not on his obedience to God's law, but on a right relationship with God that comes by faith.

http://biblehub.com/romans/4-13.htm

Romans 4:14

If God's promise is only for those who obey the law, then faith is not necessary and the promise is pointless.

http://biblehub.com/romans/4-14.htm

Romans 4:15

For the law always brings punishment on those who try to obey it. (The only way to avoid breaking the law is to have no law to break!)

http://biblehub.com/romans/4-15.htm

Romans 4:16

So the promise is received by faith. It is given as a free gift. And we are all certain to receive it, whether or not we live according to the law of Moses, if we have faith like Abraham's. For Abraham is the father of all who believe.

http://biblehub.com/romans/4-16.htm

~Romans 6 - Sin’s Power Is Broken

12 Do not let sin control the way you live; do not give in to sinful desires. 13 Do not let any part of your body become an instrument of evil to serve sin. Instead, give yourselves completely to God, for you were dead, but now you have new life. So use your whole body as an instrument to do what is right for the glory of God.

14 Sin is no longer your master, for you no longer live under the requirements of the law. Instead, you live under the freedom of God’s grace.

http://biblehub.com/romans/6-14.htm

15 Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law, does that mean we can go on sinning? Of course not!

http://biblehub.com/romans/6-15.htm

16 Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living. 17 Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you. 18 Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living.

19 Because of the weakness of your human nature, I am using the illustration of slavery to help you understand all this. Previously, you let yourselves be slaves to impurity and lawlessness, which led ever deeper into sin. Now you must give yourselves to be slaves to righteous living so that you will become holy.

20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the obligation to do right. 21 And what was the result? You are now ashamed of the things you used to do, things that end in eternal doom. 22 But now you are free from the power of sin and have become slaves of God. Now you do those things that lead to holiness and result in eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+6&version=NLT

Notes: You should still follow the law by choice in order to be righteous. Being saved is no longer about obeying rules solely, but nevertheless we are expected to live moral lives.

Certain aspects of the law, such as circumcision and dietary commandments, were considered by Paul as not applying to Gentiles who followed his teaching (1 Corinthians 7:18-19 and Galations 5:2). The early Christians would probably have mixed their own traditions with Paul's teachings to make them more palatable to them.

~Romans 10

Dear brothers and sisters, the longing of my heart and my prayer to God is for the people of Israel to be saved. 2 I know what enthusiasm they have for God, but it is misdirected zeal. 3 For they don’t understand God’s way of making people right with himself. Refusing to accept God’s way, they cling to their own way of getting right with God by trying to keep the law.

4 For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God.

http://biblehub.com/romans/10-4.htm

Salvation Is for Everyone

5 For Moses writes that the law’s way of making a person right with God requires obedience to all of its commands. 6 But faith’s way of getting right with God says, “Don’t say in your heart, ‘Who will go up to heaven?’ (to bring Christ down to earth). 7 And don’t say, ‘Who will go down to the place of the dead?’ (to bring Christ back to life again).” 8 In fact, it says,

“The message is very close at hand; it is on your lips and in your heart.” And that message is the very message about faith that we preach: 9 If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by openly declaring your faith that you are saved. 11 As the Scriptures tell us, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.” 12 Jew and Gentile are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call on him. 13 For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

2 Peter 3:15-16 (Speaking about Paul and his writing)

15 And remember, our Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him—

16 speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction.

The following is from a christian site, called eyeoftheneedle:

There is a good Greek word which can mean "accomplish" or "come to pass". It is ginomai, and is used by GOD together with pleroo in several passages. Let us first consider some of these to help us distinguish between the two words. The first usage of either of these two Greek words in the New Testament is found in a single verse, which in itself is quite curious. We will quote the entire context encompassing the incident.

MATTHEW 1:18-23 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.  Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.  But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.  And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.  Now all this was done [ginomai], that it might be fulfilled [pleroo] which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet [ISAIAH 7:13-14], saying,  Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Reading the prophecy in ISAIAH one is presented with somewhat of a different picture than what we find "fulfilled" in MATTHEW. Most significant being that the Child's name in ISAIAH was to be Emmanuel when in MATTHEW the Angel commanded Joseph that His name was to be Jesus (Yeshua). Thus we understand that "fulfilling" prophecy didn't mean that exactly what was written by Isaiah was going to be exactly accomplished in the future. Rather, we see that what was accomplished (ginomai) in MATTHEW, didn't fulfill that prophecy, but actually just explained the full and true meaning (pleroo) of what Isaiah had written. Fulfilling the prophecy meant explaining it.

MATTHEW provides us with two more brilliant examples of how these two Greek words interact.

MATTHEW 21:4 All this was done [ginomai, accomplished] that it might be fulfilled [pleroo, explained] which was spoken by the prophet....

MATTHEW 26:56 But all this was done [ginomai, accomplished], that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled [pleroo, explained]. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.

The fourth Gospel also provides us with the necessary evidence to understand something of the relationship between these two Greek words.

JOHN 19:36 For these things were done [ginomai, accomplished] that the scripture should be fulfilled [pleroo, explained], A bone of him shall not be broken.

Let's look at a few other passages where this Greek word pleroo is referring, not to something being fulfilled or accomplished but rather where something has been "expounded upon or realized".

http://www.eyeoftheneedle.net/Fellowship%20of%20the%20Mystery/fellowship%20of%20mystery-how%20Christ%20fulfilled%20law.htm

Fictional jesus was a jewish rabbi, with a jewish ministry. He used the Old Testament to preach to his jewish followers, his religion of judaism.

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Jesus was Born a Jew

See this pro-jesus, christian page:

http://jesusisajew.org/Jesus_is_a_Jew.php

Jesusisajew, makes the claim that jesus was real, but notice, they cannot prove it, nor do they try. It is only their belief. On the other hand, that religious site, does a good job of proving, within the christian story, that fictional jesus was indeed Jewish.

Can we call Jesus “Rabbi”?

It’s true that there is a change in how the word “rabbi” was used right around the time of Jesus. Jewish teachers who lived a few decades before his time, like Hillel and Shammai, were not called “Rabbi Hillel” and “Rabbi Shammai,” even though they had numerous disciples. They simply went by their name with no title, like Jesus did. It was only after 70 AD that we find numerous religious teachers who had that title, like “Rabbi Akiva” or “Rabbi Eliezar.”

Because of this, modern day scholars refer to the era after 70 AD as “the rabbinic period” and speak of teachers in this period as “the rabbis.” Religious teachers who gathered disciples prior to 70 AD are called “sages,” so Jesus technically was a “sage” rather than a “rabbi” by modern definition.

See the following christian page, to see :

http://lifeatthewellspring.com/2009/01/14/can-we-call-jesus-rabbi/

Most church translators in history, have agreed, jesus was indeed the equivalency of a Rabbi. They have used this title to describe what fictional jesus did during his 3 year Jewish ministry in most translations.

Imaginary rabbi jesus’ TWO commandments were not original; but were from the jewish Tanakh or what christians called the old testament.

http://exposingreligionblog.tumblr.com/post/19992116798

Does the New Testament say that jesus is a rabbi? Yes, yes it does: ~The Title, Rabbi, has 51 official occurrences in the New Testament.

Matthew 23:7 the salutations in the marketplaces, and to be called'Rabbi, Rabbi' by men. (WEB KJV WEY ASV DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)

Matthew 23:8 But don't you be called'Rabbi,' for one is your teacher, the Christ, and all of you are brothers. (WEB KJV WEY ASV DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)

Matthew 26:25 Judas, who betrayed him, answered, "It isn't me, is it, Rabbi?" He said to him, "You said it." (WEB WEY ASV DBY YLT NAS NIV)

Matthew 26:49 Immediately he came to Jesus, and said, "Hail, Rabbi!" and kissed him. (WEB WEY ASV DBY YLT NAS NIV)

Mark 4:38 But He Himself was in the stern asleep, with His head on the cushion: so they woke Him. "Rabbi," they cried, "is it nothing to you that we are drowning?" (WEY)

Mark 5:35 While He is yet speaking, men come from the house to the Warden, and say, "Your daughter is dead: why trouble the Rabbi further?" (WEY)

Mark 9:5 Peter answered Jesus, "Rabbi, it is good for us to be here. Let's make three tents: one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah." (WEB WEY ASV DBY YLT NAS NIV)

Mark 9:17 "Rabbi," answered one of the crowd, "I have brought you my son. He has a dumb spirit in him; (WEY)

Mark 9:38 "Rabbi," said John to Him, "we saw a man making use of your name to expel demons, and we tried to hinder him, on the ground that he did not follow us." (WEY)

Mark 10:17 As He went out to resume His journey, there came a man running up to Him, who knelt at His feet and asked, "Good Rabbi, what am I to do in order to inherit the Life of the Ages?" (WEY)

Mark 10:20 "Rabbi," he replied, "all these Commandments I have carefully obeyed from my youth." (WEY)

Mark 10:35 Then James and John, the sons of Zabdi, came up to Him and said, "Rabbi, we wish you would grant us whatever request we make of you." (WEY)

Mark 10:51 And answering, Jesus saith to him, 'What wilt thou I may do to thee?' and the blind man said to him, 'Rabboni, that I may see again;' (See NIV)

Mark 11:21 Peter, remembering, said to him, "Rabbi, look! The fig tree which you cursed has withered away." (WEB WEY ASV DBY YLT NAS NIV)

Mark 12:14 So they came to Him. "Rabbi," they said, "we know that you are a truthful man and you do not fear any one; for you do not recognize human distinctions, but teach God's way truly. Is it allowable to pay poll-tax to Caesar, or not? (WEY)

Mark 12:32 So the Scribe said to Him, "Rightly, in very truth, Rabbi, have you said that He stands alone, and there is none but He; (WEY)

Mark 13:1 As He was leaving the Temple, one of His disciples exclaimed, "Look, Rabbi, what wonderful stones! what wonderful buildings!" (WEY)

Mark 14:14 and whatever house he enters, tell the master of the house, 'The Rabbi asks, Where is my room where I can eat the Passover with my disciples?' (WEY)

Mark 14:45 When he had come, immediately he came to him, and said, "Rabbi! Rabbi!" and kissed him. (WEB WEY ASV DBY YLT NAS NIV)

Luke 3:12 There came also a party of tax-gatherers to be baptized, and they asked him, "Rabbi, what are we to do?" (WEY)

Luke 5:5 "Rabbi," replied Peter, "all night long we have worked hard and caught nothing; but at your command I will let down the nets." (WEY)

Luke 7:40 In answer to his thoughts Jesus said to him, "Simon, I have a word to say to you." "Rabbi, say on," he replied. (WEY)

Luke 8:24 So they came and woke Him, crying, "Rabbi, Rabbi, we are drowning." Then He roused Himself and rebuked the wind and the surging of the water, and they ceased and there was a calm. (WEY)

Luke 8:45 "Who is it touched me?" Jesus asked. And when all denied having done so, Peter and the rest said, "Rabbi, the crowds are hemming you in and pressing on you." (WEY)

Luke 8:49 While He was still speaking, some one came to the Warden of the Synagogue from his house and said, "Your daughter is dead; trouble the Rabbi no further." (WEY)

Luke 9:33 And when they were preparing to depart from Him, Peter said to Jesus, "Rabbi, we are thankful to you that we are here. Let us put up three tents--one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah." He did not know what he was saying. (WEY)

Luke 9:38 and a man from the crowd called out, "Rabbi, I beg you to pity my son, for he is my only child. (WEY)

Luke 9:49 "Rabbi," replied John, "we have seen a man making use of your name to expel demons; and we forbad him, because he does not come with us." (WEY)

Luke 10:25 Then an expounder of the Law stood up to test Him with a question. "Rabbi," he asked, "what shall I do to inherit the Life of the Ages?" (WEY)

Luke 11:45 Hereupon one of the expounders of the Law exclaimed, "Rabbi, in saying such things you reproach us also." (WEY)

Luke 12:13 Just then a man in the crowd appealed to Him. "Rabbi," he said, "tell my brother to give me a share of the inheritance." (WEY)

Luke 17:13 In loud voices they cried out, "Jesus, Rabbi, take pity on us." (WEY)

Luke 18:18 The question was put to Him by a Ruler: "Good Rabbi, what shall I do to inherit the Life of the Ages?" (WEY)

Luke 19:39 Thereupon some of the Pharisees in the crowd appealed to Him, saying, "Rabbi, reprove your disciples." (WEY)

Luke 20:21 So they put a question to Him. "Rabbi," they said, "we know that you say and teach what is right and that you make no distinctions between one man and another, but teach God's way truly. (WEY)

Luke 20:28 "Rabbi, Moses made it a law for us that if a man's brother should die, leaving a wife but no children, the man shall marry the widow and raise up a family for his brother. (WEY)

Luke 20:39 Then some of the Scribes replied, "Rabbi, you have spoken well." (WEY)

Luke 21:7 "Rabbi, when will this be?" they asked Him, "and what will be the token given when these things are about to take place?" (WEY)

Luke 22:11 and say to the master of the house, "'The Rabbi asks you, Where is the room where I can eat the Passover with my disciples?' (WEY)

John 1:38 Jesus turned, and saw them following, and said to them, "What are you looking for?" They said to him, "Rabbi" (which is to say, being interpreted, Teacher), "where are you staying?" (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)

John 3:2 The same came to him by night, and said to him, "Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do, unless God is with him." (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)

John 3:26 They came to John, and said to him, "Rabbi, he who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified, behold, the same baptizes, and everyone is coming to him." (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)

John 4:31 In the meanwhile, the disciples urged him, saying, "Rabbi, eat." (WEB WEY ASV DBY YLT NAS RSV NIV)

John 6:25 When they found him on the other side of the sea, they asked him, "Rabbi, when did you come here?" (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)

John 8:4 "Rabbi," they said, "this woman has been found in the very act of committing adultery. (WEY)

John 9:2 His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" (WEB WEY ASV DBY YLT NAS RSV NIV)

John 11:8 The disciples told him, "Rabbi, the Jews were just trying to stone you, and are you going there again?" (WEB WEY ASV DBY YLT NAS RSV NIV)

John 11:28 After saying this, she went and called her sister Mary privately, telling her, "The Rabbi is here and is asking for you." (WEY)

John 13:13 You call me 'The Rabbi' and 'The Master,' and rightly so, for such I am. (WEY)

John 13:14 If I then, your Master and Rabbi, have washed your feet, it is also your duty to wash one another's feet. (WEY)

The Official jesus Challenge: http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtlwRJgf

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Research Articles, Evidence and Videos that Prove a Historical jesus, NEVER Existed

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This is the 3rd article of our 12 part research:

Debunking the Fraudulent christian Apologist List of Extra-biblical but non-contemporary, claimed “sources” used as jesus “evidence.” (Jewish, “Pagan,” Non-christian, “Secular”)

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtmt2ygH

Related article: 

Tacitus’ Historical Testimonies of gods: Hercules, Mercury, Thor, Odin, Mars, Tyr, Isis, Nerthus, Tuisto, Wuotan and more.

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtnl6LJ2

Tacitus (56 CE-117 CE) - Full name: Publius (or Gaius) Cornelius Tacitus.

Born 23 years after jesus supposedly died.

Tacitus' Annals, were published in 115 CE. (82 years after jesus supposedly died)

What are the oldest manuscripts we have of Tacitus' works?

The Cornelius Tacitus manuscript M.II (the so called second Medicean), which is kept in the Laurentian library, Biblioteca Medicea Laurenziana, in Italy, where it has the library number 68.2.

This is the earliest known extant manuscript of Tacitus, and is (probably) written in the 11th century, at the monastery of Monte Cassino, 80 miles southeast of Rome. 

In other words: The manuscript that we have today that christians claim to be 2nd century evidence for jesus, is actually a 11th century claimed copy of Tacitus' work that was actually written by anonymous christian-Italian monks in a monastery near Rome.

The Text: (Annals 15.44):

Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of a charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were being destroyed.

The Chrestianos Issue in Tacitus Reinvestigated by Erík Zara Doctor of Theology (Th.D.)

http://www.textexcavation.com/documents/zaratacituschrestianos.pdf

Jesus Has Left the Building, Part 3 (Tacitus, Suetonius, and Pliny)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlE89XULcrk

Could Tacitus have taken his information from Christian sources?

Christian Answer: Because of his position as a professional historian and not as a commentator, it is more likely Tacitus referenced government records over Christian testimony.

~Christians always mention these referenced government records but the fact is that none exist.

Tacitus gives no source for passage about Christus. In the book, Historical Jesus: A Comprehensive Guide, Thiessen and Merz argue that if the source had been an official Roman archive, one would expect him to have referred to Pilate as a prefect instead of as a procurator (he was not a procurator). They thus conclude that the information Tacitus gives about Jesus was not copied from an official source.

Just as Tacitus mentions a Christus, so does he also mention Hercules many times in his Annals. And most importantly, just as we have no artifacts, writings or eyewitnesses about Hercules, we also have nothing about Jesus. All information about Hercules and Jesus comes from stories, beliefs, and hearsay. Should we then believe in a historical Hercules, simply because ancient historians mention him and that we have stories and beliefs about him? Of course not, and the same must apply to Jesus if we wish to hold any consistency to historicity. http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

The most used Christian reference from that century is by Roman historian Cornelius Tacitus (55-120 CE).  He purportedly wrote around 117 CE about “Christos” being executed by Pontius Pilate.  However, Tacitus would have used Jesus' name, not his religious title “Christos.”  Notedly, Tacitus' reference was not mentioned by Origen, Eusebius, Tertullian (who quotes a great deal from Tacitus) or Clement of Alexandria in the third century.  It was likely added in 1468 by Johannes de Spire of Venice, because no mention is made of it in any known text prior to then, but there are many later references.  Another writer, Suetonius, in about 120 CE referred to a man named Chrestus and his Jewish followers.  However, “Chrestus” is the correct Latin form of an actual Greek name, and is not a misspelling of “Christos.” http://www.godlessgeeks.com/JesusExist.htm

If people are willing to take ALL of Tacitus' writings as truth in that same manner.... then they have to concede that there are Pagan Gods as well.

Suspiciously, we are missing about 2/3 of Tacitus' Annals.

There has been some question about the integrity of the “jesus” passage

Absence of Historical Witnesses - Non-Christian Testimony for Jesus?

– From the authentic pen of lying Christian scribes !

Christianity has no part in Tacitus's history of the Caesars. Except for one questionable reference in the Annals he records nothing of a cult marginal even in his own day.

Sometime before 117 AD, the Roman historian apparently wrote:

"Nero looked around for a scapegoat, and inflicted the most fiendish tortures on a group of persons already hated for their crimes. This was the sect known as Christians. Their founder, one Christus, had been put to death by the procurator, Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius. This checked the abominable superstition for a while, but it broke out again and spread, not merely through Judea, where it originated, but even to Rome itself, the great reservoir and collecting ground for every kind of depravity and filth. Those who confessed to being Christians were at once arrested, but on their testimony a great crowd of people were convicted, not so much on the charge of arson, but of hatred of the entire human race.

Their deaths were made farcical. Dressed in wild animals' skins , they were torn to pieces by dogs, or crucified, or made into torches to be ignited after dark as substitutes for daylight."

– Tacitus (Book 15, chapter 44):

As we have seen, the term 'Christian' was not in use during the reign of Nero and there would not have been 'a great crowd' unless we are speaking of Jews, not Christians. 'Jewish/Christians' – being perceived by Roman authorities (and the populace at large) simply as Jews meant that early Christ-followers also got caught up in general attacks upon the Jews.

"Their effects to dissemble their Jewish origins were detected by the decisive test of circumcision; nor were the Roman magistrates at leisure to enquire into the difference of their religious tenets."

– Edward Gibbon (Decline and Fall)

One consequence of the fire which destroyed much of Rome in 64 AD was a capitation tax levied on the Jews and it was the Jews – throughout the empire – who were required to pay for the city’s rebuilding – a factor which helped to radicalize many Jews in the late 60s AD.

Not for the first time would Christian scribes expropriated the real suffering of a whole people to create an heroic 'origins' fable..

No Christian apologist for centuries ever quoted the passage of Tacitus – not in fact, until it had appeared almost word-for-word in the writings of Sulpicius Severus, in the early fifth century, where it is mixed in with other myths. Sulpicius's contemporaries credited him with a skill in the 'antique' hand. He put it to good use and fantasy was his forte: his Life of St. Martin is replete with numerous 'miracles', including raising of the dead and personal appearances by Jesus and Satan.

  His dastardly story of Nero was embellished during the Renaissance into a fantastic fable with Nero 'fiddling while Rome burned'. Nero took advantage of the destruction to build his 'Golden House' though no serious scholar believes anymore that he started the fire (we now know Nero was in his hometown of Antium – Anzio – when the blaze started.) Indeed, Nero opened his palace garden for temporary shelter to those made homeless.

  In short, the passage in Tacitus is a fraud and adds no evidence for a historic Jesus.

  Update: The probing eye of science

11th century monk corrects Tacitus: "Goodies" to read "Christians"!

Ultraviolet photo of a critical word from the earliest known extant manuscript of Tacitus (second Medicean, Laurentian library, Italy).

The photograph reveals that the word purportedly used by Tacitus in Annals 15.44, chrestianos ("the good"), has been overwritten as christianos ("the Christians") by a later hand, a deceit which explains the excessive space between the letters and the exaggerated "dot" (dash) above the new "i". The entire "torched Christians" passage of Tacitus is not only fake, it has been repeatedly "worked over" by fraudsters to improve its value as evidence for the Jesus myth.

  The truth may be that there was an original gnostic cult following a personified virtue, "Jesus Chrestos" (Jesus the Good). Consequently, they were called Chrestians, an appellation which seems to have attached itself at an early date to the sectarians of the "heretic" Marcion. Support for this possibility comes from the earliest known "Christian" inscription, found in the 19th century on a Marcionite church at Deir Ali, three miles south of Damascus. Dated to circa 318, the inscription reads "The meeting-house of the Marcionists, in the village of Lebaba, of the Lord and Saviour Jesus the Good", using the word Chrestos, not Christos.

  As a flesh-and-blood, "historical" Jesus gradually eclipsed the allegorical Jesus so, too, did "goodness" get eclipsed by "Messiahship". Justin, in his First Apology (4), about thirty years after the death of Tacitus, plays on the similarity in sound of the two words Χριστὸς (Christ) and χρηστὸς (good, excellent) to argue for the wholesome, commendable character of Jesus followers.

  http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/josephus-etal.html

  Proof Tacitus Manuscript was Altered

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UgO8fAJVVM

  Pliny, Tacitus and Suetonius: No Proof of Jesus

  by D.M. Murdock/Acharya S

  Turning next to another stalwart in the anemic apologist arsenal, Tacitus, sufficient reason is uncovered to doubt this Roman author's value in proving an "historical" Jesus. In his Annals, supposedly written around 107 CE, Tacitus purportedly related that the Emperor Nero (37-68) blamed the burning of Rome during his reign on "those people who were abhorred for their crimes and commonly called Christians." Since the fire evidently broke out in the poor quarter where fanatic, agitating Messianic Jews allegedly jumped for joy, thinking the conflagration represented the eschatological development that would bring about the Messianic reign, it would not be unreasonable for authorities to blame the fire on them. However, it is clear that these Messianic Jews were not (yet) called "Christiani." In support of this contention, Nero's famed minister, Seneca (5?-65), whose writings evidently provided much fuel for the incipient Christian ideology, has not a word about these "most-hated" sectarians.

  ...the Tacitean passage next states that these fire-setting agitators were followers of "Christus" (Christos), who, in the reign of Tiberius, "was put to death as a criminal by the procurator Pontius Pilate." The passage also recounts that the Christians, who constituted a "vast multitude at Rome," were then sought after and executed in ghastly manners, including by crucifixion. However, the date that a "vast multitude" of Christians was discovered and executed would be around 64 CE, and it is evident that there was no "vast multitude" of Christians at Rome by this time, as there were not even a multitude of them in Judea. Oddly, this brief mention of Christians is all there is in the voluminous works of Tacitus regarding this extraordinary movement, which allegedly possessed such power as to be able to burn Rome. Also, the Neronian persecution of Christians is unrecorded by any other historian of the day and supposedly took place at the very time when Paul was purportedly freely preaching at Rome (Acts 28:30-31), facts that cast strong doubt on whether or not it actually happened. Drews concludes that the Neronian persecution is likely "nothing but the product of a Christian's imagination in the fifth century." Eusebius, in discussing this persecution, does not avail himself of the Tacitean passage, which he surely would have done had it existed at the time. Eusebius's discussion is very short, indicating he was lacking source material; the passage in Tacitus would have provided him a very valuable resource.

  Even conservative writers such as James Still have problems with the authenticity of the Tacitus passage: For one, Tacitus was an imperial writer, and no imperial document would ever refer to Jesus as "Christ." Also, Pilate was not a "procurator" but a prefect, which Tacitus would have known. Nevertheless, not willing to throw out the entire passage, some researchers have concluded that Tacitus "was merely repeating a story told to him by contemporary Christians."

  Based on these and other facts, several scholars have argued that, even if the Annals themselves were genuine, the passage regarding Jesus was spurious. One of these authorities was Rev. Taylor, who suspected the passage to be a forgery because it too is not quoted by any of the Christian fathers, including Tertullian, who read and quoted Tacitus extensively. Nor did Clement of Alexandria notice this passage in any of Tacitus's works, even though one of this Church father's main missions was to scour the works of Pagan writers in order to find validity for Christianity. As noted, the Church historian Eusebius, who likely forged the Testimonium Flavianum, does not relate this Tacitus passage in his abundant writings. Indeed, no mention is made of this passage in any known text prior to the 15th century.

  The tone and style of the passage are unlike the writing of Tacitus, and the text "bears a character of exaggeration, and trenches on the laws of rational probability, which the writings of Tacitus are rarely found to do." Taylor further remarks upon the absence in any of Tacitus's other writings of "the least allusion to Christ or Christians." In his well-known Histories, for example, Tacitus never refers to Christ, Christianity or Christians. Furthermore, even the Annals themselves have come under suspicion, as they themselves had never been mentioned by any ancient author....

  In any event, even if the Annals were genuine, the pertinent passage itself could easily be an interpolation, based on the abundant precedents and on the fact that the only manuscript was in the possession of one person, de Spire. In reality, "none of the works of Tacitus have come down to us without interpolations."

  Regarding Christian desperation for evidence of the existence of Christ, Dupuis comments that true believers are "reduced to look, nearly a hundred years after, for a passage in Tacitus" that does not even provide information other than "the etymology of the word Christian," or they are compelled "to interpolate, by pious fraud, a passage in Josephus." Neither passage, Dupuis concludes, is sufficient to establish the existence of such a remarkable legislator and philosopher, much less a "notorious impostor."

  It is evident that Tacitus's remark is nothing more than what is said in the Apostle's Creed—to have the authenticity of the mighty Christian religion rest upon this Pagan author's scanty and likely forged comment is preposterous. Even if the passage in Tacitus were genuine, it would be too late and is not from an eyewitness, such that it is valueless in establishing an "historical" Jesus, representing merely a recital of decades-old Christian tradition.

  http://www.truthbeknown.com/pliny.htm

  Did Tacitus Mention Jesus Christ? TACITUS – DID HE USE ARCHIVES OR WAS HIS WORK ALTERED? TACITUS AND NERO

  http://www.christisnotrisen.com/tacitus.html

  http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/tacitus.html The following is from:

  ~Bible Scholar: R.G. Price

http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_myth_history.htm

We can also look at the works of Tacitus, which were written shortly after the Gospel of Mark was probably written.

I BEGIN my work with the time when Servius Galba was consul for the second time with Titus Vinius for his colleague. Of the former period, the 820 years dating from the founding of the city, many authors have treated; and while they had to record the transactions of the Roman people, they wrote with equal eloquence and freedom. After the conflict at Actium, and when it became essential to peace, that all power should be centered in one man, these great intellects passed away. Then too the truthfulness of history was impaired in many ways; at first, through men's ignorance of public affairs, which were now wholly strange to them, then, through their passion for flattery, or, on the other hand, their hatred of their masters. And so between the enmity of the one and the servility of the other, neither had any regard for posterity. But while we instinctively shrink from a writer's adulation, we lend a ready ear to detraction and spite, because flattery involves the shameful imputation of servility, whereas malignity wears the false appearance of honesty. I myself knew nothing of Galba, of Otho, or of Vitellius, either from benefits or from injuries. I would not deny that my elevation was begun by Vespasian, augmented by Titus, and still further advanced by Domitian; but those who profess inviolable truthfulness must speak of all without partiality and without hatred. I have reserved as an employment for my old age, should my life be long enough, a subject at once more fruitful and less anxious in the reign of the Divine Nerva and the empire of Trajan, enjoying the rare happiness of times, when we may think what we please, and express what we think.

I am entering on the history of a period rich in disasters, frightful in its wars, torn by civil strife, and even in peace full of horrors. Four emperors perished by the sword. There were three civil wars; there were more with foreign enemies; there were often wars that had both characters at once. - Tacitus; The Histories, 109 CE

As you can see, there was definitely such a thing as formal history at the time that the Gospels were written, and the Gospel of Mark, upon which all of the others are based, does not read at all like a formal history, it reads like an allegorical story. Mark develops characters and has a plot, with scenes, suspense, and a climax.

Tacitus gives a detailed mention of "Christus" in a section discussing Nero and the fire of Rome.

But not all the relief that could come from man, not all the bounties that the prince could bestow, nor all the atonements which could be presented to the gods, availed to relieve Nero from the infamy of being believed to have ordered the conflagration, the fire of Rome. Hence to suppress the rumor, he falsely charged with the guilt, and punished Christians, who were hated for their enormities. Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius: but the pernicious superstition, repressed for a time broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originated, but through the city of Rome also, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. - The Annals; Tacitus, 109

Though the name "Christus" is used here, this is clearly a reference to the "Jesus Christ" of the Gospels. There are several things of interest in this reference, but it doesn't establish the historical existence of Jesus. Indeed Tacitus is clearly relaying information that originally came from Christians themselves.

It is peculiar that Nero would have laid the blame on Christians in 64 CE. This passage has puzzled historians for some time, because by all other accounts Christians were still an extremely small and barely distinct group of people by 64 CE. It's not certain what exactly would set Christians apart from others so much in Rome at this time, how they would have been distinguished from ordinary Jews, why they would have been hated, or if the Christians persecuted by Nero were even the same Christians as those who were believers in Jesus Christ since the term Christians was also considered to derive from people calling themselves "anointed ones". Rome was filled with literally hundreds of different religions and cults at this time and it's somewhat astonishing that Christians of all these groups would have been singled out, for we have nothing else that tells us realistically what they would have been doing to draw attention to themselves.

Regardless of this peculiarity, this passage is generally deemed authentic but it is widely recognized that it's not an independent witness to the existence of Jesus. Some Christians have tried to claim that Tacitus would have gotten his details about the death of Jesus from the Roman archives, thereby establishing the historical reality of the crucifixion. Not only is there no reason to think this, but there are good reasons to conclude that this is not possible.

First of all, Tacitus uses the name "Christus", as though it is a given first name. Tacitus apparently doesn't realize that "Christos" is a religious title, meaning "Anointed One". If "Christus" is the name that Tacitus is working from, which it is, then even if there were Roman records to be looked at he could never have found them under that name and if he had found them otherwise he would have seen another name on them, presumably Yeshuaor Iēsous, the Hebrew and Greek variants of "Jesus". "Christus" corresponds to nothing, it's a mistake of translation, or an assumption based on working backwards from the name "Christians".

Secondly, it's doubtful that there would have been any archival material to even look at if it ever existed, since Tacitus is writing in 109, some 40 years after the military destruction of Judea.

Thirdly, there would have been no reason for Tacitus to go to an archive to write this passage. The information that he is passing on would have been common knowledge by 109 CE, and this is an insignificant point amidst the larger subject of this work, which is Nero himself. Christians aren't the subject here, just a side note. We can't even say that the information Tacitus is passing on would have been known in 64 CE. Since Tacitus is writing in 109, his information is likely more detailed than what would have been known in 64, since by 109 the Gospels had probably already been in circulation for several decades.

That this statement by Tacitus is not evidence for the existence of Jesus is admitted to even by Christian scholars.

New Testament scholar John P. Meier acknowledges that here Tacitus is only passing on information gleaned from Christians, he isn't making an independent attestation to the existence of Jesus.

Tacitus and Pliny the Younger reflect instead what they have heard Christians of their own day say. Despite various claims, no early rabbinic text (the earliest being the Mishna, composed ca. A.D. 200) contains information about Jesus, and later rabbinic texts simply reflect knowledge of, and mocking midrash on, Christian texts and preaching.

- The Present State of the ‘Third Quest’ for the Historical Jesus: Loss and Gain; J.P. Meier, 1999

http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_myth_history.htm

  Earl Doherty’s Response to Bart Ehrman’s Case Against Mythicism: A Roman Trio

Ehrman calls Tacitus “more promising.” He recounts the tale of the Great Fire in Annals 15, how Nero, himself presumed responsible for the fire, falsely accused the Christians of setting it and inflicted the goriest of punishments upon great numbers of them. Tacitus then says (in Ehrman’s words):

The author of this name, Christ, was put to death by the procurator, Pontius Pilate, while Tiberius was emperor; but the dangerous superstition, though suppressed for the moment, broke out again not only in Judea, the origin of this evil, but even in the city [of Rome]. (DJE? p. 55)

Straining to read Jesus into Tacitus

Ehrman says:

Once again, Jesus is not actually named here, but it is obvious in this instance that he is the one being referred to . . . (DJE? p. 56)

But is it really that simple? Tacitus says that the group known as Christians derived their name from Christ. But how do we know that Tacitus was aware of his actual name if he doesn’t give it? It is commonly argued that Tacitus had to use the term “Christ” in order to properly explain the derivation of the term “Christians.”

Undoubtedly so, but in making that secondary point he has thereby created the impression that ‘a man named Christ was executed by Pontius Pilate’ (which is quite possibly the way he understood it). To avoid the confusion he could have mentioned both names in a few simple words.

Hearsay or Official Archives?

Similar to the case of Pliny, Tacitus’ evident misunderstanding is best explainable by the fact that he is simply repeating hearsay, perhaps through police interrogations (as Norman Perrin puts it), in which word reaches Roman ears from a group which refers to their perceived founder by the term “Christus,” easily assumed to be his name. Had Tacitus consulted a record in the archives (if it were even conceivable that such a thing could be found about a crucifixion in Judea 80 years previously, one of thousands taking place around the empire) it is not likely that such a report would lack the man’s name, or would even use the term “Christ”—unless by way of an explanation about him, assuming Romans back at head office would need to know such an explanation or would understand the concept—especially as early as 33 CE and before Christians even existed.

Ehrman himself admits to the likely scenario that Tacitus was using hearsay, and he is led to this conclusion by the additional fact that Tacitus refers to Pilate as “procurator,” the term in use for a provincial governor in Tacitus’ day, whereas in Pilate’s day it was “prefect.” Despite arguments that the term was “fluid” in the latter’s time (dependent on usages outside Roman historians and writers in Latin), the two terms actually referred to different offices, and it seems to be the case that in Judea both were held by Pilate. “Prefect” was the higher office (military commander as opposed to a financial officer), and is the one given to Pilate on the stone inscription referred to earlier. It would be virtually impossible that any formal report from Pilate would identify him by the inferior term, and thus if Tacitus were consulting an archive he could hardly have made his mistake.

The Question of Authenticity

But all this may be moot. Once again, Ehrman denigrates mythicists for their alleged practice of simply declaring inconvenient passages as Christian interpolations: they don’t want there to be any references to Jesus, he says, so out they go. But in the case of Tacitus, there is very good reason to do so, and in Jesus: Neither God Nor Man I spend 25 pages presenting an argument in this direction. Ehrman makes not the slightest reference to it, let alone tries to rebut it.

The mythicist case that Ehrman avoided

It can be simply stated.

For the next 300 years, no Christian commentator makes any reference to Nero’s slaughter of the Roman Christians for setting the Great Fire. Not just to Tacitus’ account of such an event, but to the event itself as something known in Christian tradition. That it would not be known is impossible. That it would not be referred to in any connection is almost equally impossible. Christians in those early centuries were fixated on the fact and history of their martyrdom. A great literature of martyrology was produced in that time, even if a lot of it was fiction or exaggeration. Eusebius (the pre-eminent church historian!) can refer to the martyrdoms of Peter and Paul at the hands of Nero, but he fails to include the array of Christian residents of Rome and makes no link of anything to the Great Fire.

Now, there is in Eusebius, and in the earlier Tertullian whom he quotes, as well as in the odd writer like Melito of Sardis, a vague allusion to Christians in general being put upon by Nero, but never with any specifics given, and certainly nothing even suggesting the scale of the event in Tacitus.

Tertullian, a man obsessed with the issue of martyrdom and the only one to suggest that Nero’s persecution of Christians was particularly sanguinary, says that it was “the singular excellence of Christians (which) brought on Nero’s condemnation” (Apology 5). No mention of the Fire, and no details given to illuminate his remark that “Nero was the first who assailed with the imperial sword the Christian sect.” He suggests that the Romans consult the “records” about this which he says they possess in the same breath as mentioning the report of Tiberius becoming convinced of Jesus’ divinity due to information about his death from Palestine (is this the alleged ‘Letter of Pilate’?), and later making reference to the Roman ‘record’ of the world-wide darkness at Jesus’ crucifixion!

These sorts of remarks, some of them so mild as to be unidentifiable with anything resembling Tacitus (see Melito as quoted by Eusebius in H.E. IV, 26), can be put down to either vague traditions of a minor event of persecution under Nero about which no details were remembered, or simply nothing at all but a tendency to regard Nero (who came to be prophesied as the future embodiment of the Antichrist and due to return at the End-time to persecute the faithful) as having been a persecutor in his first life.

Accounting for the tradition?

On the other hand, the entire tradition may have arisen as a result of Nero’s alleged persecution of Peter and Paul, whose legends of martyrdom in Rome developed around the middle of the second century. (1 Clement at the end of the first is less than precise even about martyrdoms for the two figures, let alone that such took place in Rome.) Indeed, Tertullian conveys this very thing in Scorpiace 15 and elsewhere, that his concept of persecution by Nero is basically limited to the martyrdoms of Peter and Paul and perhaps a few of their companions; and the same goes for Eusebius (H.E. II,22).

The silence of the historians

The record in Roman historians is also curiously silent.

Cassius Dio at the beginning of the third century has an account of the Fire, but puts the responsibility on Nero, with no mention of Christians or their ghastly persecution.

Suetonius, in his Life of Nero, details the Great Fire (ch.38) with not a word about the Christians or their responsibility for it, nor about their infamous punishment. Earlier, in chapter 16, amid a list of measures taken by Nero to curb such problems as improper eating in public establishments, chariot drivers who cheated and robbed ordinary citizens, and pantomimic actors who had to be expelled from Rome, Suetonius makes this cryptic statement:

Punishment was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men given to a new and mischievous superstition.

No word on what that punishment was, or the reason for it. (Actually, the final phrase sounds like the reason.) If it was meant to refer to the fire, why was that point not included in his later description of the fire? If this line is authentic (though it would stand out like a sore thumb from its context if it referred to the Tacitus scene), it would seem Suetonius knew no more about an event of Neronian persecution than Christian writers did. Also, it is curious that he did not draw on Tacitus (a common practice among ancient historians), from his Annals recently published, yet another nail in the coffin of authenticity for the famous passage.

Calling on Pliny and Trajan as witnesses

We might also note that Pliny’s letter to Trajan all but forces us to conclude that neither one of them knew of the great Neronian persecution. Pliny seems almost ignorant about Christians; and finding them virtually innocuous and inquiring what treatment they should be accorded is hardly consonant with their recent history under Nero and the accusation that they had been guilty of burning down half the city of Rome. Nor is Trajan’s advocation of a ‘go easy’ policy on the Christians.

Calling on the testimony of the apocryphal acts

But all this long silence is trumped by a Christian record which goes so far as to rule out the historicity of the Tacitus account. The apocryphal Acts of Paul, from the late second century, in the context of Paul’s martyrdom, has a number of local Christians condemned to execution by fire at the same time as Paul’s beheading. No mention is made of the Great Fire or Christians executed on its account. If such a tradition were known, it is hardly conceivable that any writer would have erased it in favor of the scenario given in the Acts of Paul.

Even more damning is the Acts of Peter, written around the same time. This tale has Nero, following the crucifixion of Peter, planning to “destroy all those brethren who had been made disciples by Peter.” But he is dissuaded by a dream in which he is being scourged and told “you cannot now persecute or destroy the servants of Christ.” An alarmed Nero “kept away from the disciples . . . and thereafter the brethren kept together with one accord . . .” No writer who knew of a general persecution and killing of Christian brethren in the city of Rome by Nero could possibly have constructed this scene, one which effectively rules out any such persecution.

The first witness for Tacitus

When a Christian account of the fire and persecution first appears around the year 400 in the writings of Sulpicius Severus, we find a definite literary connection with the extant account in Tacitus, though we cannot be sure in which direction the dependency lies. And Severus does not include in that common material the reference to Christ as executed by Pilate, though this he could have cut as unnecessary for his readers. Yet Severus does not identify his information as coming from Tacitus or indeed any other source.

Was he drawing on a description of the persecution previously interpolated into the Annals (post-Eusebius) by either a Christian or even a Roman scribe, reflecting the phenomenon known from the later 2nd century on (as in Tertullian) of “blaming the Christians” for every misfortune that befell society?

Or did he create the description of the Neronian persecution himself, on which basis a later interpolation into Tacitus was made, along with the reference to Christ himself as a victim under Pilate? (In that case, “Christ” as a name instead of “Jesus” would have been perfectly natural for a Christian scribe.)

Appeal to authority and mud-slinging

Other aspects to the question of authenticity in regard to Tacitus’ alleged witness to Jesus are discussed in my book. I bring the subject up in some detail here to show that,

despite Ehrman’s dismissal of mythicists as compulsive interpolation advocates, there is indeed very good justification for rejecting the much-vaunted reference to an historical Jesus in Tacitus;

and to show that Ehrman made no effort to counter or even mention that 25-page argument.

In fact, the only rebuttal offered is once again the old appeal to authority:

I don’t know of any trained classicists or scholars of ancient Rome who think this, and it seems highly unlikely. (DJE? p. 55)

And this is followed by his above-mentioned mud slinging against mythicists.

http://vridar.wordpress.com/2012/04/23/5-earl-dohertys-response-to-bart-ehrmans-case-against-mythicism-a-roman-trio/

  More research:

  Historicity Of Jesus FAQ (1994) - Scott Oser

  http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/scott_oser/hojfaq.html

  Tacitus' Fragment 2:

  The Anti-Roman Movement of the Christiani and the Nazoreans (2000) - Eric Laupot

  http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/eric_laupot/nazoreans.html

  Severus Is Not Quoting Tacitus: A Rebuttal to Eric Laupot (2006) Richard Carrier

  Tacitus

  http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the_historical_existence_of_Jesus_Christ

  Tacitus was born in 64 C.E, well after the death of Jesus. He gives a brief mention of a "Chrestus" in his Annals (Book XV, Sec. 44), which he wrote around 109 CE He gives no source for his material. He says:

  “          Nero looked around for a scapegoat, and inflicted the most fiendish tortures on a group of persons already hated for their crimes. This was the sect known as Christians. Their founder, one Chrestus, had been put to death by the procurator, Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius. This checked the abominable superstition for a while, but it broke out again and spread, not merely through Judea, where it originated, but even to Rome itself, the great reservoir and collecting ground for every kind of depravity and filth. Those who confessed to being Christians were at once arrested, but on their testimony a great crowd of people were convicted, not so much on the charge of arson, but of hatred of the entire human race.    ”

  Tacitus depicts early Christians as “hated for their crimes” and associated with “depravity and filth.” This is not a flattering picture, so is less likely to be Christian propaganda. Tacitus claims no first-hand knowledge of Christianity, but is merely repeating the then common ideas about Christians.

  There is no other historical confirmation that Nero persecuted Christians. There certainly was not a “great crowd” of Christians in Rome around 60 CE, and the term “Christian” was not in use in the first century. Tacitus is either doctoring history from a distance or repeating a myth without checking the facts. Historians generally agree that Nero did not burn Rome, so Tacitus is in error to suggest that he would have needed to blame Christians in the first place.

  A more serious problem is that no one in the second century ever quoted this passage of Tacitus, and in fact it appears almost word-for-word in the writings in someone else, Sulpicius Severus, in the fourth century, where it is mixed in with other myths. The passage is therefore highly suspect and adds virtually no evidence even for early Christianity.

  Tampering of the Tacitus source:

  The surviving copies of Tacitus' works derive from two principal manuscripts, known as the Medicean manuscripts, which are held in the Laurentian Library in Florence, Italy, and written in Latin. The second Medicean manuscript is the oldest surviving copy of the passage describing "Christians." In this manuscript, the first 'i' of the Christianos is quite distinct in appearance from the second, looking somewhat smudged, and lacking the long tail of the second 'i'; additionally, there is a large gap between the first 'i' and the subsequent 'long s'. Latin scholar Georg Andresen was one of the first to comment on the appearance of the first 'i' and subsequent gap, suggesting in 1902 that the text had been altered, and an 'e' had originally been in the text, rather than this 'i'.

  In 1950, at historian Harald Fuchs' request, Dr. Teresa Lodi, the director of the Laurentian Library, examined the features of this item of the manuscript; she concluded that there are still signs of an 'e' being erased, by removal of the upper and lower horizontal portions, and distortion of the remainder into an 'i'. In 2008, Dr. Ida Giovanna Rao, the new head of the Laurentian Library's manuscript office, repeated Lodi's study, and concluded that it is likely that the 'i' is a correction of some earlier character (like an e), the change being made an extremely subtle one. Later the same year, it was discovered that under ultraviolet light, an 'e' is clearly visible in the space, meaning that the passage must originally have referred to chrestianos, a Latinized Greek word which could be interpreted as the good, after the Greek word χρηστός (chrestos), meaning "good, useful", rather than strictly a follower of "Christ".

  Tacitus, the Roman historian's birth year at 64 C.E., puts him well after the alleged life of Jesus. He gives a brief mention of a "Christus" in his Annals (Book XV, Sec. 44), which he wrote around 109 C.E. He gives no source for his material. Although many have disputed the authenticity of Tacitus' mention of Jesus, the very fact that his birth happened after the alleged Jesus and wrote the Annals during the formation of Christianity, shows that his writing can only provide us with hearsay accounts.

  http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Did_Jesus_really_exist%3F

  Tacitus and Jesus

  In his Annals, Cornelius Tacitus (55-120 CE) writes that Christians:

"derived their name and origin from Christ, who, in the reign of Tiberius, had suffered death by the sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilate" (Annals 15.44)

  Two questions arise concerning this passage:

Did Tacitus really write this, or is this a later Christian interpolation?

Is this really an independent confirmation of Jesus's story, or is Tacitus just repeating what some Christians told him?

Some scholars believe the passage may be a Christian interpolation into the text. However, this is not at all certain, and unlike Josephus's Testimonium Flavianum, no clear evidence of textual tampering exists.

  The second objection is much more serious. Conceivably, Tacitus may just be repeating what he was told by Christians about Jesus. If so, then this passage merely confirms that there were Christians in Tacitus' time, and that they believed that Pilate killed Jesus during the reign of Tiberius. This would not be independent confirmation of Jesus's existence. If, on the other hand, Tacitus found this information in Roman imperial records (to which he had access) then that could constitute independent confirmation. There are good reasons to doubt that Tacitus is working from Roman records here, however. For one, he refers to Pilate by the wrong title (Pilate was a prefect, not a procurator). Secondly, he refers to Jesus by the religious title "Christos". Roman records would not have referred to Jesus by a Christian title, but presumably by his given name. Thus, there is excellent reason to suppose that Tacitus is merely repeating what Christians said about Jesus, and so can tell us nothing new about Jesus's historicity.

  http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

  2. Gaius Tacitus

  A second independent record of Jesus was written about 110 AD. Gaius Tacitus was a Roman Consul who turned his attention to writing in his forties. His first major work, the Histories, was written around 105 ad. It chronicled the Flavian dynasty that ruled the Roman Empire during the final third of the first century.

  His second major work, the Annals, was published about five years later. It covered the quarter century leading up to the Flavian dynasty, from the death of Augustus Caesar to the suicide of Nero. Here’s what Tacitus had to say about Jesus in the context of the spread of Christianity, and the burning of Rome, in 64 AD:

  Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular.

  Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of a charioteer or stood aloft on a car.

  Jesus-mythologists have noted these points about this record:

  Though somewhat overshadowed by the unpleasant nature of Nero, this does suggest that a person known as Christus once existed. Tacitus was a disciplined historian, and is likely to have satisfied himself that what he wrote was accurate. Despite this, the claim has been challenged on various grounds.

  It is far from contemporaneous, being written almost eighty years after the supposed event.

  It is merely a passing reference while discussing something else, to explain how the Christians got their name.

  Tacitus did not base the reference on official records as, if they had existed, they would have called the victim Jesus and given Pilate his proper title of prelate.

  http://www.michaelnugent.com/best/did-the-historical-jesus-exist/

  Tacitus

  Tacitus (ca. 56 – ca. 117)

  Tacitus is remembered first and foremost as Rome's greatest historian. His two surviving works: Annals and The Histories form a near continuous narrative from the death of Augustus in 14 CE to the death of Domitian in 96.

  Interestingly, I cannot report on the silence of Tacitus concerning Jesus, because the very years of the purported existence of Jesus 30, 31, are suspiciously missing from his work(!)

  Richard Carrier writes:

  "...we are enormously lucky to have Tacitus--only two unrelated Christian monasteries had any interest in preserving his Annals, for example, and neither of them preserved the whole thing, but each less than half of it, and by sheer luck alone, they each preserved a different half. And yet we still have large gaps in it. One of those gaps is the removal of the years 29, 30, and 31 (precisely, the latter part of 29, all of 30, and the earlier part of 31), which is probably the deliberate excision of Christian scribes who were embarrassed by the lack of any mention of Jesus or Gospel events in those years (the years Jesus' ministry, death, and resurrection were widely believed at the time to have occurred). There is otherwise no known explanation for why those three years were removed. The other large gap is the material between the two halves that neither institution preserved. And yet another is the end of the second half, which scribes also chose not to preserve (or lost through negligent care of the manuscript, etc.)."

  Ironically, Christians often cite Tacitus as historical evidence for Jesus.

This is the passage cited:

  But neither the aid of man, nor the liberality of the prince, nor the propitiations of the gods succeeded in destroying the belief that the fire had been purposely lit. In order to put an end to this rumor, therefore, Nero laid the blame on and visited with severe punishment those men, hateful for their crimes, whom the people called Christians. He from whom the name was derived, Christus, was put to death by the procurator Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius. But the pernicious superstition, checked for a moment, broke out again, not only in Judea, the native land of the monstrosity, but also in Rome, to which all conceivable horrors and abominations flow from every side, and find supporters. First, therefore, those were arrested who openly confessed; then, on their information, a great number, who were not so much convicted of the fire as of hatred of the human race. Ridicule was passed on them as they died; so that, clothed in skins of beasts, they were torn to pieces by dogs, or crucified, or committed to the flames, and when the sun had gone down they were burned to light up the night. Nero had lent his garden for this spectacle, and gave games in the Circus, mixing with the people in the dress of a charioteer or standing in the chariot. Hence there was a strong sympathy for them, though they might have been guilty enough to deserve the severest punishment, on the ground that they were sacrificed, not to the general good, but to the cruelty of one man."[14]

  However, there are serious problems with using this passage as independent corroboration of Jesus:

Jeffery Jay Lowder states:

  "There is no good reason to believe that Tacitus conducted independent research concerning the historicity of Jesus. The context of the reference was simply to explain the origin of the term "Christians," which was in turn made in the context of documenting Nero's vices..."

  It is not just 'Christ-mythicists' who deny that Tacitus provides independent confirmation of the historicity of Jesus; indeed, there are numerous Christian scholars who do the same! For example, France writes, Annals XV.44 "cannot carry alone the weight of the role of 'independent testimony' with which it has often been invested." E.P. Sanders notes, "Roman sources that mention [Jesus] are all dependent on Christian reports." And William Lane Craig states that Tacitus' statement is "no doubt dependent on Christian tradition."[15]

So it may simply be that Tacitus was relying on oral tradition, and not on any historical research for his reference to Jesus. Tacitus himself tells us about the value of such traditions:

  "...everything gets exaggerated is typical for any story" and "all the greatest events are obscure--while some people accept whatever they hear as beyond doubt, others twist the truth into its opposite, and both errors grow over subsequent generations"[16]

As weak as the Tacitus claim is, it remains a possibility that even this weak bit of apparent corroboration is a later interpolation.

  Some of these problems are summarized by Gordon Stein:

  "While we know from the way in which the above is written that Tacitus did not claim to have firsthand knowledge of the origins of Christianity, we can see that he is repeating a story which was then commonly believed, namely that the founder of Christianity, one Christus, had been put to death under Tiberius. There are a number of serious difficulties which must be answered before this passage can be accepted as genuine. There is no other historical proof that Nero persecuted the Christians at all.There certainly were not multitudes of Christians in Rome at that date (circa 60 A.D.). In fact, the term "Christian" was not in common use in the first century. We know Nero was indifferent to various religions in his city, and, since he almost definitely did not start the fire in Rome, he did not need any group to be his scapegoat. Tacitus does not use the name Jesus, and writes as if the reader would know the name Pontius Pilate, two things which show that Tacitus was not working from official records or writing for non-Christian audiences, both of which we would expect him to have done if the passage were genuine.

  Perhaps most damning to the authenticity of this passage is the fact that it is present almost word-for-word in the Chronicle of Sulpicius Severus (died in 403 A.D.), where it is mixed in with obviously false tales. At the same time, it is highly unlikely that Sulpicius could have copied this passage from Tacitus, as none of his contemporaries mention the passage. This means that it was probably not in the Tacitus manuscripts at that date. It is much more likely, then, that copyists working in the Dark Ages from the only existing manuscript of the Chronicle, simply copied the passage from Sulpicius into the manuscript of Tacitus which they were reproducing."[17]

  Supporting Stein's claim is that, as with the Testimonium, there is no provenance for the passage: No early Christian writer uses Tacitus' passage in their apologetics, even when discussing Christian persecution by Nero:

  Tertullian (ca. 155–230)

Lactantius (ca. 240 - ca. 320)

Sulpicius Severus (c. 360 – 425)

Eusebius (ca. 275 – 339)

Augustine of Hippo (354 – 430)

  However, the key point here is that Tacitus did in fact write a thorough history of the purported times of Jesus and his ministry, and while this work is lost to us, Tacitus never makes any cross reference to it during his discussion of christians and Nero nor at any other point in his surviving works.

  The Roman historian Tacitus, in his Annals written around 115, makes the first pagan reference to Jesus as a man executed in the reign of Tiberius. This is not likely to have been the result of a search of some archive, for the Romans hardly kept records of the countless crucifixions around the empire going back almost a century. We have no evidence of such extensive record-keeping. Besides, Tacitus is not known as a thorough researcher, which is illustrated by the fact that he gets Pilate's title wrong, something that might have been corrected had he consulted an official record. Scholars such as Norman Perrin (The New Testament: An Introduction, p.407) acknowledge that Tacitus' "information" probably came from local Christian hearsay and police interrogation; this would have been at a time when the idea of an historical founder had recently taken hold in Rome. There is even some reason to doubt the authenticity of this passage, despite its vilifying description of Christians. The association of a persecution of Christians with the great fire in Nero's Rome (the context of Tacitus' reference) is nowhere mentioned by Christian commentators for the next several centuries.

  http://www.jesuspuzzle.humanists.net/postscpt.htm

  Severus Is Not Quoting Tacitus: A Rebuttal to Eric Laupot (2006)

Richard Carrier

  http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/laupot.html

  There is inconclusive evidence that Tacitus had independent sources. The Roman historian Cornelius Tacitus, writing in 115 CE, explicitly states that Nero prosecuted the Christians in order to draw attention away from himself for Rome's devastating fire of 64 CE:

  But not all the relief that could come from man, not all the bounties that the prince could bestow, nor all the atonements which could be presented to the gods, availed to relieve Nero from the infamy of being believed to have ordered the conflagration, the fire of Rome. Hence to suppress the rumor, he falsely charged with the guilt, and punished Christians, who were hated for their enormities. Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius: but the pernicious superstition, repressed for a time broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originated, but through the city of Rome also, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind.[82]

  Scholarly debate surrounding this passage has been mainly concerned with Tacitus' sources and not with the authorship of the passage (e.g., whether it is an interpolation) or its reliability.[83] Various scenarios have been proposed to explain how Tacitus got his information. One possibility is that Tacitus learned the information from another historian he trusted (e.g., Josephus). Another possibility (suggested by Harris) is that he obtained the information from Pliny the Younger. According to Harris, "Tacitus was an intimate friend and correspondent of the younger Pliny and was therefore probably acquainted with the problems Pliny encountered with the Christians during his governorship in Bithynia - Pontus (c. A.D. 110-112)."[84] (Defenders of this position may note that Tacitus was also governing in Asia in the very same years as Pliny's encounters with Christians [112-113], making communication between them on the event very likely.)[85] Norman Perrin and Dennis C. Duling mention a related possibility; they state that Tacitus' information "is probably based on the police interrogation of Christians."[86] Yet another possibility (suggested by Habermas and defended by McDowell and Wilson) is that Tacitus obtained the information from official documents.[87] (I shall say more about this possibility below.) It is also possible that the information was common knowledge. Finally, there is the view (defended by Wells, France, and Sanders) that Tacitus simply repeated what Christians at the time were saying.[88] The bottom line is this: given that Tacitus did not identify his source(s), we simply don't know how Tacitus obtained his information. Holding himself admits, "Truthfully, there is no way to tell" where Tacitus obtained his information about Jesus.[89] Therefore, we can't use Annals XV.47 as independent confirmation of the historicity of Jesus.

  McDowell and Wilson disagree. They give nine reasons for believing that "Tacitus had information other than what he heard from Christians", which may be briefly summarized as follows: (i) Tacitus does not say he was repeating information obtained from other sources; (ii) "both Justin and Tertullian challenged their readers to go read for themselves the official secular documents;" (iii) as a Roman Senator, Tacitus had access to official records; (iv) on other matters, Tacitus states that he used reliable sources and followed the majority of historians; (v) Tacitus is careful to record conflicts in his sources; (vi) he does not quote his sources uncritically; (vii) he qualifies his opinion when others do not; (viii) he distinguishes between rumor and fact; and (ix) even if Tacitus did not have independent sources concerning the historicity of Jesus, he still records the fact that Christians were willing to be martyred for their beliefs.[90]

  As I argued above, it is certainly possible that Tacitus obtained his information from independent sources. But have McDowell and Wilson been able to show that it is probable that Tacitus did so? Let's consider each of these reasons in turn. (i), (vii) and (viii) are simply beside the point. To be sure, all Tacitean scholars believe that Tacitus in general was a very reliable historian who was trustworthy, critical of his sources, and usually accurate.[91] But there are exceptions to this rule. Michael Grant, quoting Tacitean scholar R. Mellor, notes that Tacitus occasionally reported stories which were false historically[92] but were true in a literary sense[93] or a moral sense[94]. Turning to Mellor, we read that

  Besides relaying unverifiable rumors, Tacitus occasionally reported a rumor or report that he knew was false. When reporting Augustus's trip to be reconciled with his exiled grandson Agrippa, he alludes to a rumor that the emperor was killed by his wife Livia to prevent Agrippa's reinstatement... All the components of such a tale foreshadow the murder of Claudius by his wife Agrippina to allow her son Nero to succeed before the emperor reverted to his own son Brittanicus. Tacitus is content to use the rumors to besmirch by association Livia and Tiberius who, whatever their failings, never displayed the deranged malice of an Agrippina and a Nero. It is good literature but it can be irresponsible history.[95]

  There is no good reason to believe that Tacitus conducted independent research concerning the historicity of Jesus. The context of the reference was simply to explain the origin of the term "Christians," which was in turn made in the context of documenting Nero's vices. Tacitus thus refers to "Christus" in the context of a moral attack on Nero. Remember that according to Michael Grant, this is the very type of story in which Tacitus might be willing to repeat unhistorical information. And if Tacitus were willing to repeat unhistorical information in such a context, surely he would be willing to repeat noncontroversial, incidental, historically accurate information (such as the historicity of Jesus) without verifying the matter firsthand. Besides, in the context of the passage, it is unclear that Tacitus (or anyone else for that matter) would have even thought to investigate whether "Christus" actually existed, especially given that Tacitus called Christianity a "pernicious superstition." (To make an analogy, although I am extremely skeptical of Mormonism, I'm willing to take the Mormon explanation for the origin of the term "Mormon" at face value!) As Robert L. Wilken, a Christian historian, states:

  Christianity is not part of Tacitus's history. Except for the one reference in the Annales, he shows no interest in the new movement. When he adverts to Christians in the book it is not because he is interested in Christianity as such or aimed to inform his readers about the new religion, as, for example, he did in a lengthy discussion in another work, the Histories (5.1-13), but because he wished to make a point about the extent of Nero's vanity and the magnitude of his vices, and to display the crimes he committed against the Roman people.[96]

  That Tacitus was uninterested in Christianity is confirmed by Mellor:

  For a man who served as governor of Asia his knowledge of Jews and Christians is woefully (and unnecessarily) confused, since the Jewish historian Josephus lived in Rome and Tacitus's good friend Pliny knew something of the Christians. But Tacitus is contemptuous of all easterners--Greeks, Jews, and Egyptians alike--and he clearly thought them unworthy of the curiosity and research he lavised on court intrigues.[97]

  Mellor concludes that Tacitus "scorned or merely ignored" the Jews, Christians, and other religious groups.[98] Since the historicity of Jesus was not in doubt at the time Tacitus wrote and since Tacitus' reference to Christus is entirely incidental, Tacitus would have had no motive for investigating the historicity of Jesus. As far as Tacitus and his "political peers" would have been concerned, the fact that Tacitus did not investigate the historicity of Jesus would have been no strike against Tacitus' "prestige and honor."[99] On the contrary, Tacitus still would have been considered to be exhibiting high standards of professionalism and integrity at the time he wrote![100]

  As for (ii), I have already addressed both Justin's reference to an alleged document, 'Acts of Pilate,' and Tertullian's reference to Tiberius. Neither the evidence from Justin nor the information provided by Tertullian make it probable that official Roman records confirmed the historicity of Jesus. Moreover, the records may have been destroyed during the First Jewish Revolt.

  Turning to (iii), Harris has doubted whether Tacitus would have had access to the imperial archives,[101] but Holding has convincingly argued that if Tacitus had wanted access to some record, he could have gotten it.[102] Nevertheless, there is no reason to believe that Tacitus had a motive for accessing those records. Moreover, we do not even know whether official records (now lost) said anything about Jesus.

  Concerning (iv) and (vi), Grant notes that Tacitus was only skeptical "on occasion," that he "persistent[ly] and lamentabl[y]" accepted many rumors, and that he "conducted extremely little independent research, quite often [he] quotes the sources that were available to him,"[103] a fact that is consistent with the hypothesis that Tacitus simply repeated what he learned from Christian sources. Grant quotes the following excerpt from Goodyear:

  One feature very damaging to Tacitus's credit is the manner in which he employs rumores. Of course, a historian may properly report the state of public opinion at particular times, or use the views of contemporaries on major historical figures as a form of 'indirect characterisation' of them. But Tacitus often goes far beyond this.

  He implants grave suspicions which he neither substantiates nor refutes. Their cumulative effect can be damning and distorting.... Time and again Tacitus is ready with an unpleasant motive, susceptible neither of proof nor of disproof.[104]

  Again, we simply don't have enough data to justify the claim that Tacitus probably had independent sources for his information about Jesus.

  (v) is a non sequitur, not to mention an argument from silence. The fact that Tacitus does not mention any conflict in his sources is just as probable on the hypothesis that Tacitus obtained his information from Roman records as it is on the hypothesis that Tacitus learned his information from Christian sources. On the latter hypothesis, this would simply imply that none of Tacitus' Christian sources doubted their own reports, which is precisely what we would expect even if Tacitus had obtained his information from Christian sources. This is completely inconclusive.

  Finally, (ix) is irrelevant to determining whether Tacitus had independent sources. Yes, Tacitus testifies that Christians were martyred for their beliefs. But his testimony can only provide independent confirmation if he had independent sources, the very point at issue. (Besides, there is no reason to believe that Christians had a choice in whether they were martyred. Thus, even if they were not willing to die, they would have died anyway. Note that Tacitus does not report whether any of them tried to escape by recanting. Moreover, initially only Christians who were "out of the closet" were seized; they were forced to reveal the others who were unknown or in hiding. Finally, from Pliny's letters, we know that many Christians in 112 were ready to recant their beliefs in order to save their lives. And there is no evidence that Christians in 64 had any better evidence to base their faith on than Christians in 112.)[105]

  In short, at best, McDowell and Wilson have presented an inconclusive case for believing that Tacitus provides independent confirmation of the historicity of Jesus. And contrary to what some apologists (not necessarily McDowell or Wilson) have suggested, it is not just 'Christ-mythicists' who deny that Tacitus provides independent confirmation of the historicity of Jesus; indeed, there are numerous Christian scholars who do the same! For example, France writes, Annals XV.44 "cannot carry alone the weight of the role of 'independent testimony' with which it has often been invested."[106] E.P. Sanders notes, "Roman sources that mention [Jesus] are all dependent on Christian reports."[107] And William Lane Craig states that Tacitus' statement is "no doubt dependent on Christian tradition."[108]

  http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_lowder/jury/chap5.html

  This passage it has been noted is informing his Roman audience about what was commonly said of Jesus.  There is no indication that this passage is the product of Tacitus research in the death of Jesus.  His silence on the topic of the Messiah indicates that if this passage is genuine, that Tacitus did not, nor his audience, believe Jesus to be the Jehovahs profit.  The section is about the depravity of Nero.  This particular piece is not quoted before the 15th Century, and when it was quoted, there was supposed to be only one copy of the 'Annals' in the world, made in the eighth century (600 years after Tacitus' death). Further evidence of an interpolation is that Tacitus would not have refered to Pilate as a Procurator, when he was a Prefect. ~ skeptically.org Books about the Tacitus forgery:

The allegation originated with Voltaire, and a lawyer named Linguet. 

John Wilson ROSS published a book entitled Tacitus and Bracciolini:: the Annals forged in the XVth century, London (1878)

In 1890 P. HOCHART, De l'Authenticite des Annales et des Histoires de Tacite, and followed up with a supplementary volume". 

In 1920 Leo WIENER, Tacitus' Germania and other forgeries,

The historian, Eugene Bacha (Le Genie de Tacite, 1906)

T.S.Jerome, Aspects of the Study of History, 1923.

Tacitus and Bracciolini: The Annals Forged in the XVth Century

  http://books.google.com/books?id=KPrfAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

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Research Articles, Evidence and Videos that Prove a Historical jesus, NEVER Existed

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66 Famous Historians and Writers From The 1st and 2nd Century, Who Never Mentioned Fictional jesus – The Screaming Silence of Real History  http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtnCiu1a

Refuting John Meier’s “Minor Figure jesus” claims and excuses, attempting to explain away the fact that nobody in Early Antiquity, mentioned jesus.

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The bible claims that fictional jesus was one of the Most Famous people of the 1st century, with tens of thousands of followers – The New Testament is the ONLY Source for jesus.

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This is the 4th article of our 12 part research:

Debunking the Fraudulent christian Apologist List of Extra-biblical but non-contemporary, claimed “sources” used as jesus “evidence.” (Jewish, “Pagan,” Non-christian, “Secular”)

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Christian Apologist “Secular Source Evidence” for Historical jesus #2: Tacitus - http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtnlKnN2

Kooks and Quacks of the Roman Empire: A Look into the World of the Gospels By Richard Carrier

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/kooks.html

In the Germania, the Roman historian Tacitus speaks of Teutonic worshipers of Hercules and Mercury; most modern scholars conclude that Hercules was likely Thor, and Mercury was Odin.

http://www.sullivan-county.com/id2/gnostic_files/syncretism.htm

Tacitus speaks of the Germanic Hercules and Mars being placated with the permissible animal victims. “They tell how Hercules appeared among them, and on the eve of battle they hymn the first of all brave men.” Arminius convened the tribes in a wood sacred to Hercules — a cult-centre of the Cherusci and other tribes, east of the Weser.

http://www.vaidilute.com/books/mythology/macculloch-05.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Dictionary_of_Greek_and_Roman_Biography_and_Mythology/Tacitus,_C._Cornelius

The first clear example of this occurs in the Roman historian Tacitus's late first century work Germania, where, writing about the religion of the Suebi (a confederation of Germanic peoples), he comments that "among the gods Mercury is the one they principally worship. They regard it as a religious duty to offer to him, on fixed days, human as well as other sacrificial victims. Hercules and Mars they appease by animal offerings of the permitted kind" and adds that a portion of the Suebi also venerate "Isis". In this instance, Tacitus refers to the god Odin as "Mercury", Thor as "Hercules", and the god Týr as "Mars", and the identity of the "Isis" of the Suebi has been debated. In Thor's case, the identification with the god Hercules is likely at least in part due to similarities between Thor's hammer and Hercules' club. In his Annals, Tacitus again refers to the veneration of "Hercules" by the Germanic peoples; he records a wood beyond the river Weser (in what is now northwestern Germany) as dedicated to him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_paganism#Tacitus

Jump to From Tacitus to the Viking Age – Hercules and Mars they appease by animal ... In this instance, Tacitus refers to the god Odin as "Mercury", Thor as "Hercules", and the god Tyr as "Mars".

Isis "Isis" of the Suebi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Isis%22_of_the_Suebi

Tacitus adds that a part of the Suebi, however, venerate "Isis", although he admits that he doesn't know how worship…

The Internet Classics Archive | The Histories by Tacitus

http://classics.mit.edu/Tacitus/histories.5.v.html

Tacitus on the Jews - Tacitus, Histories, 5.2-5

http://www.livius.org/am-ao/antisemitism/antisemitism-t.html

Isis: note from 'Germania' by Cornelius Tacitus

http://www.ourcivilisation.com/smartboard/shop/tacitusc/germany/chap1.htmhttp://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Tacitus/Histories/5A*.html

Tacitus thinks that the goddess worshipped was the Egyptian Isis, not a German goddess identified with her.

Tacitus on the Jews ... A few authorities hold that in the reign of Isis the surplus population of Egypt was evacuated to ...

http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/tac/g01000.htm

Nerthus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerthus

In Germanic paganism, Nerthus is a goddess associated with fertility. Nerthus is attested by Tacitus, the first century AD Roman historian.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/tacitus1.html

http://norse-mythology.org/gods-and-creatures/the-vanir-gods-and-goddesses/nerthus/

http://www.timelessmyths.com/norse/aboutnorse.html

Aryan Myth and Metahistory: Tacitus, Germania and the Armanenschaft

http://aryan-myth-and-metahistory.blogspot.com/2007/03/tacitus-germania-and-armanenschaft.html

According to Tacitus's Germania (98 CE), Tuisto (or Tuisco) is the divine ancestor of the Germanic peoples. Tacitus records a special affinity of the Germanic peoples for Hercules. In chapter 3 of his Germania, Tacitus states:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuisto

... they say that Hercules, too, once visited them; and when going into battle, they sang of him first of all heroes. They have also those songs of theirs, by the recital of this barditus as they call it, they rouse their courage, while from the note they augur the result of the approaching conflict. For, as their line shouts, they inspire or feel alarm.

http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/europe/l/bl_text_Tacitus_Germania.htm

http://www.academia.edu/1764890/Romes_Religious_HIstory_Livy_Tacitus_and_Ammianus_on_their_Gods

http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/grecoromanmyth1/g/phaedrus.htm

Variants of the phrase All Father (like Allfadir) usually refer to Wuotan (Wodin, Odhinn), and the Franks probably believed in Wuoton as "chief" of blessings, whom the first historian Tacitus called "Mercurius", and his consort Freia, as well as Donar (Thor), god of thunder, and Zio (Tyr), whom Tacitus called "Mars". According to Herbert Schutz, most of their gods were "worldly", possessing form and having concrete relation to earthly objects, in contradistinction to the transcendent God of Christianity. Tacitus also mentioned a goddess Nerthus being worshipped by the Germanic people, in whom Perry thinks the Franks may have shared a belief. With the Germanic groups along the North Sea the Franks shared a special dedication to the worship of Yngvi, synonym to Freyr, whose cult can still be discerned in the time of Clovis.

Tacitus mentions rituals among the Germanic tribes of the North Sea area that include a fertility goddess Nerthus riding a chariot drawn by cows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankish_mythology

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Yes, fictional. There isn’t a single contemporary historical mention of Paul from the 1st century. In the writing attributed to the Paul character. He admits that he never met jesus. The story goes that jesus supposedly dies before Paul assimilates into christianity. The NT claims that Fictional Paul goes on to write 13-14 of the 27 New Testament books. He writes 13-14 of the 27 New Testament books from “dreams and visions.” If this isn’t bad enough, it turns out that Paul was a murdering criminal and a terrorist. 1 Corinthians 15:9-10, "For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me."

Acts 8:1-5, "And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles. And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him. As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison. Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word. Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them."

Paul who was Saul was consenting unto the death of Stephen. which means:

Saul approved the stoning murder of Stephen. We can see that the high Priest gave him authority here:

Acts 9:1-2, "And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem."

Galatians 1:13 For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it.

But did he kill anyone?

Saul, arrested people and brought them back to Jerusalem to be killed by stoning.

Acts 22:4. And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.

Acts Chapter 26:10-11

[10] Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them.

[11] And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities.

~Articles and research:

Apollonius, Jesus and Paul: Men or Myths?

by Acharya S/D.M. Murdock ~Bible Scholar

http://www.truthbeknown.com/apollonius.html

The Evolution of the Pauline Canon

by Robert M. Price ~Bible Scholar

http://www.depts.drew.edu/jhc/RPcanon.html

Robert Price and the Letters of Paul

http://1peter315.wordpress.com/2008/06/23/robert-price-and-the-letters-of-paul/

The Fabricated Paul. Early Christianity In The Twilight - Hermann Detering

http://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B006XXX04G

St Paul the Apostle

– Could it all be a fabrication?

A Jew called Saul? An apostle called Paul? Or just plain invention? From religious policeman to grandee of the church, from beast fighter in Ephesus to beheading in Rome, Paul's story has more holes than a swiss cheese.

Curiously, the trail-blazing Christian missionary and apostle appears nowhere in the secular histories of his age. Ironically, though supposedly in Jerusalem at the right time, he can give no witness to a historical Jesus. But was Paul himself a genuine historical figure? The Pauline journeys, including the supposed transportation of the apostle to Rome, are characterized by incongruities, contradiction, and the absurd.

A closer look at the great missionary that some say "founded Christianity".

A Fabricated Apostle?

Two Different Pauls in Epistles and Acts – plus an Extra, Saul !

Saul of Tarsus – a witness for Jesus?

One is informed by Acts that St Paul's early day stance was as "Saul, the Christian persecutor". Yet if Saul really was a vigilante for orthodox Judaism at the time of Stephen's stoning (Acts 7.58-8.3), becoming the chief persecutor of Christians, no less – one wonders just where was Saul, not long before, when a supposed radical rabbi called Jesus was stirring up whole towns and villages?

Paul's role as religious policeman seems not to have awakened until shortly after the godman's death. But in itself this suggests Jesus of Nazareth had no great impact. After all, Saul was a contemporary of Jesus in time and place, raised in Jerusalem ("at the feet of Gamaliel" – Acts 22.3) at precisely the time the godman was overturning moneychangers in the Temple and generally provoking Pharisees and Sadducees.

Would not Saul, a young religious hothead ("exceedingly zealous of the traditions" – Galatians 1.14) have waded into those multitudes to heckle and attack the Nazarene himself? Would he not have been an enthusiastic witness to JC's blasphemy before the Sanhedrin? And where was Saul during "passion week", surely in Jerusalem with the other zealots celebrating the holiest of festivals? And yet he reports not a word of the crucifixion?

Paul, another "witness for Jesus", saw and heard nothing!

Two Pauls – One Illusion

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/saul-paul.htm

Journeys with an Apostle – First Mission

Paul in Cyprus and Galatia

Real or Imagined?

Did Saint Paul, native of Tarsus and Roman citizen as he claimed, really make the journeys ascribed to him – or are they just a frame upon which to hang his seminal epistles? Did this erstwhile Rabbi Saul, student of Gamaliel and Pharisaic Jew, really sally forth over sea and mountain – or could the story of his travels have been concocted precisely to framework missives of orthodoxy aimed at recalcitrant synagogues of the Jewish diaspora? A century of archaeology appears to confirm a few circumstantial details mentioned in his letters and yet the biblical account gives one cause to wonder.

On the Island of Love

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/apostle.htm

Journeys with an Apostle – First Mission

Galatians – Barbarians, Settlers or Jews?

– further adventures of the improbable Paul

Galatians, the "most authentic" of the Pauline epistles, raises more questions than it answers. If its pugnacious author was, in reality, an early Christian missionary, then the letter is perhaps the first record of his clash with competitors over a territory he had claimed for himself. But what territory?

Paul's letter was ostensibly addressed to "the churches of Galatia" but gives no clue as to precisely where those churches were located. Speculation falls into two camps, the "north Galatian" theory, centred on the original Gallic tribes; and the "south Galatian" theory, centered on towns in Romanized Pisidia-Lycaonia recorded in Acts. Both may be wrong.

Why would "Paul" – or any other apostle from the Levant with a message for the Gentiles – eschew the more accessible, Greek-speaking coastal cities of Asia Minor for the uplands of Anatolia, populated by diverse, polyglot and warlike tribesmen? If this "frontier zone" provided credulous converts for a sharp-witted Jewish proselytizer, were these same illiterate tribesmen really the audience for an epistle of finely nuanced theology? Yet if it was to Roman colonies of the interior that Paul addressed his missive, why choose these Latin-speaking martial towns for a message of redemption and a critique of Judaism?

Something about Paul's dealings with the Galatians in not quite kosher.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/galatians.html

Journeys with an Apostle – Second Mission

Philippi – The first Church in Europe or an origins myth?

It is possible that a 1st century Christian apostle called Paul sailed from the port of Troas in Asia Minor and began an evangelical crusade in Europe – but extremely improbable. Not only is the purported journey unsupported by a shred of archaeological or historical evidence but the missionary's itinerary is a curious mix of regurgitated fable and elements cribbed from secular history. The palpable literary devices used by the author of Acts of the Apostles to "move the story on" speak volumes of the symbolic, rather than historic, nature of Paul's journey.

Messages from the spirit world?

"And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, 'Come over into Macedonia, and help us.' "

– Acts 16.9.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/philippi.htm

Journeys with an Apostle – Second Mission

Corinth – Rome's command post in Greece

But was it Paul's?

In the New Testament yarn Paul visited Corinth on his second missionary journey, stayed eighteen months and founded the Corinthian church. He supposedly returned to Greece – one assumes to the city of Corinth – for three months on his third mission. Two letters ostensibly written to the Christians of Corinth form part of the core of "authentic" Pauline epistles and shore up the historical claims of Christianity.

In Corinth, above all places on the apostle's various itineraries, defenders of the faith muster "historical markers" to corroborate the instructional tale of early evangelism and nascent discord in the Church of God.

Yet if we are not blinded by the conviction that the Corinthian episode is an obvious truth requiring no examination of the evidence, we can recognize the high probability that the apostle's residence in the city is entirely a matter of fable, and that the true authorship of the Corinthian epistles is rather more problematic than is generally supposed.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/corinth1.html

Journeys with an Apostle – Second and Third Missions

Paul's Magical Mystery Tours – A Greek Odyssey?

A Liar for God?

"For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Jews I became a Jew, that I might gain the Jews ... To them that are without law,  I became outside the law ... that I might gain them outside the law ... To the weak I became as weak, that I might gain the weak. I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some."

– St Paul, 1 Corinthians 9.19,22.

According to the story in Acts, following St Paul's successful mission to Cyprus and Lycaonia, the apostle made two extensive evangelising tours across the Greek world. The conventional dating for the journeys is sometime during the 50s or 60s of the first century, with each tour lasting two or three years. Acts records the apostle's presence at major cities like Athens, Thessalonika and Ephesus and also at minor towns like Derbe and Mitylene unmentioned by Paul himself. Paul's own epistles actually confirm very little of the grand tour. Curiously, Acts makes absolutely no reference to the seminal letters which, apparently, were one consequence of Paul's magnificent missionary effort as he struggled to encourage and discipline the fledgling churches. Paul's adventures are chock-full of miracle, magic and myth – but are they history?

Aegean Cruises

"Let us go again and visit our brethren in every city where we have preached the word of the Lord, and see how they do."

– Acts 15.36.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/greek-odyssey.htm

Journeys with an Apostle – Third Mission

Paul at Ephesus  – Derring-do or hocus pocus?

Acts of the Apostles, together with Eusebius' History of the Church – the primary documents of early church history – present a fake history, crafted to tell an uplifting story of how "The Way", a marginal sect within Judaism, became "The Church", a universal brotherhood of Christian fellowships spread far and wide. The pivotal figure in this glorious revolution was purportedly the apostle Paul and the climax to the story has the superlative missionary raising the glorious banner of Christ in Rome itself.

Yet for all the heroics that fill the pages of the authorized story, the reports of Paul's "evangelisation" of vast areas of the eastern Roman Empire are a triumph of brevity. This is especially true of Paul's third missionary journey. Around a scant one hundred and thirty words are all that we have for the great mission, that and a few curious, quite surreal, tales.

The first relates to a group rebaptism.

Strange happenings in Ephesus

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/ephesus.html

Paul in Jerusalem – An Unbelievable Yarn

Reporting Paul's third heroic mission, Acts dismisses his evangelizing in Macedonia and Greece with barely a sentence ("he gave them much exhortation"). In contrast, Paul's trials and tribulations in Jerusalem fill almost all of Acts 21, 22 and 23. The drama builds with a series of warnings. On landing at Tyre, brethren ("through the Spirit") tell Paul not to go on to Jerusalem. This warning is iterated by Agabus, a Judean prophet and by the brothers gathered at the house of Philip in Caesarea. The unstoppable Paul is having none of it.

“What are you doing, weeping and breaking my heart? For I am ready not only to be imprisoned but even to die in Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.” – Acts 21.13.

But as we shall see, try as they might, those dastardly Jews just can't silence our superapostle. His destiny is to be a "trial" in Caesarea and an uncertain fate in Rome itself.

An Unbelievable Yarn

Paul escapes murderous Jews in Jerusalem – three times?

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/paul-in-jerusalem.html

Journeys with an Apostle – The "Passion" of a Saint

Paul in Caesarea? – Trial and Error

Further adventures of the improbable Paul

Reality and the Christian dreamscape intersect in the city of Caesarea and in the persons of Felix and Festus, Roman procurators who feature both in secular history and in the fantasy called Acts of the Apostles. Neither the city nor the two men get a mention in Paul's own epistles but then the apostle would recognize little of his "life" as purported in Acts.

The author of Luke-Acts – if indeed there was a single author – made extensive borrowings from the works of Josephus and the Felix/Festus episode of "Paul's story," told through Acts 23 to 27, owes all its "authentic history" to the Jewish historian and the writings he penned in the final decades of the first century.

Strikingly, Josephus mentions all the main characters found in this episode of Acts – Felix, Festus, Agrippa, Bernice, Drusilla, Ananias – with but one exception, the apostle Paul!

Only in the Christian dreamscape are its fabricated heroes always the centre of attention.

Caesarea grows in the story

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/caesarea2.htm

Journeys with an Apostle – The Final Mission

The Curious Yarn of Paul's "Shipwreck"

All at Sea!

The ripping yarn of Paul's voyage to Rome is devoid of theology but includes several curious "miracles" and a wealth of nautical detail which is a delight to those who argue for Luke's "accuracy as an historian." Below the surface, however, the author of Acts has drawn on at least two, and possibly several, incompatible sources to concoct his tale of maritime adventure and evangelical pizzazz.

The climax of the fable is a shipwreck on the island of "Melite" – first associated with Malta in the 16th century by the Knights of St John, crusaders who had been kicked out of the Levant and the island of Rhodes and had established a military despotism on the tiny but strategically placed rock. Centuries earlier, an alternative – and better – claim to the holy wreck site had been made for an island off the Dalmatian coast by Benedictine monks. They drew on the work of the the 10th century Greek emperor Konstantin Porphyrogenitus, who had identified, in his book On Administering the Empire, the island of Mljet with the castaway apostle. Like Malta, in antiquity Mljet had been called Melita.

In recent times a third location has been trumpeted for the unplanned landfall, Argostoli on the island of Cephalonia, enthusiastically backed by the local clergy for obvious reasons. All three claims are attempts to imprint the Pauline fable onto real geography and real history. Yet like the multiple heads of John the Baptist, the proliferation of "evidence" merely underlines the hollowness of the supposed final voyage of the martyr-saint.

A shipwreck on Malta? Dalmatia? Cephalonia?

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/shipwreck.html

Journeys with an Apostle – The Final Mission

Paul goes to Rome? – Theology meets Josephus!

The Book of Acts completes its wondrous tale of the apostle Paul with hearings before the Jewish multitude, the Jewish high council, Roman procurators Felix and Festus, the Jewish king Agrippa and (by tradition) the Roman emperor Nero (twice!). Acts leaves the story of its hero with the apostle resident in Rome, receiving all that came to him, and merrily preaching the kingdom of God and the Lord Jesus. Big finish, or what?

Less it appear too happy an ending, "tradition" – pious romances scribbled between the 2nd and 4th centuries such as Acts of Paul, the Apocalypse of Paul, the Martyrdom of Paul and the Acts of Paul and Thecla – provide the fabulous nonsense of his beheading by order of Nero, on the very same day as Peter! Nothing in secular history confirms the fate of St Paul – but then nothing in secular history confirms even his existence.

Voyage to Rome – or flight of fancy?

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/road-to-rome.htm

The New Testament letters – 1

Bold, Catholic and Fake epistles! A compendium of fraud!

Many scholars attempt "chronologies" of the life of Paul, yet Acts of the Apostles is a naive fantasy and the Pauline letters of themselves provide few clues in time or place.  Bringing Paul's epistles seamlessly into the story of the church proves to be an impossible task, for collectively the letters offer no continuous narrative and no one has any real idea of the sequence of their composition. Hence the enduring "uncertainty" in the origin of the letters and their stark incompatibility with the "authorised" early history of the faith.

Pious reflection and wishful thinking assemble the epistles into the "life" of the apostle, delicately extracting a few perceived "facts" from the embarrassing mythology of Acts, as pegs on which to hang the garments. Yet the epistles are themselves full of hyperbole, the inane and the wondrous. Paul, no less than Peter, struts across a stage that exists only in the dreams of those who would speak in his name and rule with his authority. Myth is not truth.

Letters Home

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/epistles1.htm

New Testament letters – 2

The bogus "authentic" Pauline epistles. A compendium of fraud!

The Six "Authentic" Pauline epistles?

With 15 letters demonstrably fake and with the practice of pseudepigraphy clearly at the heart of the entire corpus of the New Testament, caution is advised before accepting the remainder of the epistles as genuine.

But it is possible that half a dozen authentic letters keep company with a collection of fakes. But are they authentic?

The "Asian" letter

Galatians

"You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified."

– Galatians 3.1.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/epistles2.htm

Paul – The first theologian?

The Gnostic Paul?

A Diluted Gnosticism at the heart of Orthodoxy

Did Paul ever visit Corinth? On the basis of the available evidence, that is doubtful. Paul's supposed conversions in the Greek city are spectacular and rapid – and he even receives an encouraging visitation from the Lord himself, assuring the apostle that He already had "many people in this city" (Acts 18.9-10*). Who on earth converted them?

And yet Paul's own converts fall away just as rapidly as they are made. Despite his unspecified "mighty deeds" and the heavenly support, Paul, the "wise masterbuilder" (1 Corinthians 3.10), has only limited success in Corinth. If we are to believe his Corinthian letters, he had a surprisingly fraught and strained relationship with "his" church. The epistles make clear that opponents and rivals had a following even within the miniscule Christian community and apparently, the "whole church" of Corinth could meet in the house of Gaius (Romans 16.23), which far from suggests serried ranks of believers.

Something is not quite right here and the existence of the Corinthian epistles – amounting to more than one-third of the entire Pauline corpus – should not blind us to an alternative, and more probable, explanation for both their origin and purpose.

A Christian Theology – from Jesus, Paul or "the Church"?

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/corinth2.html

Paul – Too Good to be True?

The Corinthian Letters - Priestly Imperatives

Christian apologists love to condemn pagan Corinth as a city of rampant immorality. They will not be slow to tell you that the Greek verb korinthiazomai, a derivative of the city's name, means to fornicate. But the truth is that Corinth was a bustling port with a large, transitory population. In that sense, its notoriety was no worse than any other port city.

Corinth, however, was claimed as a bridgehead for Paul. The apostle's two seminal letters, supposedly sent to the fledgling congregation in the city, reveal a bewildering variety of opponents and present a veritable anthology of his pastoral guidance and theological diktats.

The historicity of the super-apostle, vexed by troubles on all sides, warily asserting (re-asserting?) authority over "his" church by stern letters, is not compelling. Was it Corinth that was especially in focus or "all that in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ"? (1 Corinthians 1.2). Was the author really a missionary called Paul or are the hands of later editors revealed in the odd discontinuities (six "Now concerning ..." re-starts in 1 Corinthians alone)? Are we really dealing here with authentic letters from a hard-working soldier of Christ or rather, an accretion of polemical exchanges and negotiated harmonizations (Paul baptized, did not baptize and could not remember if he baptized! (1 Corinthians 1.13–17).

An inconvenient truth for those who wish to believe the holy fantasy is that NOT the "teachings of a historical Jesus" but the so-called epistles of Paul developed the dogmas and precepts of the Church. Could one man be that smart?

How many letters make two?

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/corinth3.html

Gestation of the Faith

Paul and the Acts of the Apostles – A Ripping Yarn

One of the most startling facts of early Christianity – yet one seldom commented upon – is that complete obscurity surrounds the foundation of its churches in all of the major cities of the Roman Empire. Those very churches which would define dogma, marshall the legions of the faithful and wield state power for millennia, present the interested enquirer with a mystery: How did they begin?

Legends and "traditions" abound, of course, and apologetics is quite insistent that the "rapid growth of the church" is a primary proof and validation of the Resurrection and the claims of Christianity. But sober historical evidence is absent.

Into this void in real history leaks a wondrous tale of the pioneers of the faith, Acts of the Apostles. This fable synthesizes an idealized version of events in a world of tireless apostles and bold evangelization; of recalcitrant Jews easily neutralized; of fraternal disputes quickly resolved; of cruel persecutions met with stoicism and forbearance; of divine and angelic interventions; and of immediate, mass conversions.

Reality, however, tells a different story. Unlike in the later centuries of Christian conquest, when ambitious missionaries, backed by armies, destroyed indigenous gods and compelled the acceptance of Christ, early Christianity of necessity spread by an entirely different method. But the idea that the mechanism at work was the "bold evangelism" of a handful of charismatic apostles, armed only with the power of the Holy Spirit, is a fairy tale which should convince only the faithful.

Heroes great and small

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/ripping-yarn.html

Journey's End or End of the Line?

The Improbable Paul - The making of a Super Apostle!

Paul - inventor or invention?

One curiosity about Paul's letters is that they survived at all. Polemical and often scathing in tone one wonders why the recipients kept them safe for generations, copying hostile texts not cited by the later gospel writers and neglected by the brethren at large for a century or more. Not until Marcion, the heretical bishop from Pontus, published several Pauline letters in the middle decades of the 2nd century were the epistles acknowledged or quoted.

Who, one wonders, in Paul's faction-riven churches, decided to regard the apostle's rambling missives as tantamount to "scripture", on a par with the Tanakh, the only other sacred writings they might have known? Why would early Pauline converts have hung on to his letters anyway – had they not just learned from the master that the existing world would soon pass away? Who, in a time of apocalyptic anticipation, would have been so motivated (and able) to gather a collection letters purportedly sent everywhere from Rome to Galatia?

The truth is that Paul's letters are not what they appear to be – and more to the point, not when they appear to be.

Genuine Fakes

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/endoftheline.html

Paul and the Origins of Christianity

http://www.rejectionofpascalswager.net/paulorigin.html

THE JESUS PUZZLE

Was There No Historical Jesus? Earl Doherty

THE SOURCE OF PAUL’S GOSPEL

http://jesuspuzzle.humanists.net/supp06.htm

Does Paul Speak of Jesus as an Historical Person?

http://jesuspuzzle.humanists.net/supp08.htm

Pauline Interpolations - Richard Carrier

http://richardcarrier.blogspot.com/2011/06/pauline-interpolations.html

Richard Carrier disagrees:

The Historicity of Paul the Apostle - Richard Carrier

“So unlike Jesus, Paul has a high prior probability of existing.”

http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/7643

PLEASE SEE OUR RELATED RESEARCH:

Fabricating the Jesus Story – Exposing the Fictional Actors/Writers: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Peter – Research By: Kenneth Humphreys of JesusNeverExisted.com

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtnLvAYf

The jesus Birther Movement (jBM) Research Database Directory

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtaKiFCa

The Official jesus Challenge: http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtlwRJgf

https://www.facebook.com/JesusBirtherMovement

http://www.facebook.com/JesusBirtherMovement/info

Debunking the Fraudulent christian Apologist List of Extra-biblical but non-contemporary, claimed “sources” used as jesus “evidence.” (Jewish, “Pagan,” Non-christian, “Secular”)

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtmt2ygH

Research Articles, Evidence and Videos that Prove a Historical jesus, NEVER Existed

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtmSTwHN

Please Join Pages In Our ExposingReligion Network

http://exposingreligionblog.tumblr.com/post/20825271431

See an organized listing of all of our research blogs: 

Kenneth Humphreys is one of the leading experts in exposing the jesus fiction. He holds post-graduate qualifications from two British universities and taught for many years in the UK, Turkey and Papua New Guinea; including a Senior Lecturership in Modern Languages. He is now fully occupied as a writer, radio broadcaster and public speaker. “I had a religion-free childhood and from the youngest age acquired an interest in history. In turns I was both fascinated and appalled by the history of the 'Christian Faith' and have made its legacy and crimes a life-long study…”  ~ Kenneth Humphreys

Ken’s website, http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/  was launched in December 2001. It receives more than a million visitors per year and is currently being made available in nine languages. The book, “Jesus Never Existed” was published in 2005 by Iconoclast Press. It has been shipped to more than thirty countries. Order here: http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/book.html

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Jesus-never-existed/147454358621833

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ken-Humphreys/213467342019658

~FYI, The following fictional characters, only exist on the pages of the New Testament. No first century portraits were made or descriptions given. So, we will not be posting any christian fantasy photos.

~MATTHEW?

A Gospel for Messianic Jews

The Gospel of Matthew is an expanded version of the Gospel of Mark.*

Almost all the story elements, phrases and words used by Mark – about ninety-five per cent of them – are regurgitated in Matthew. But the Markan core has been refined by the later writer with extra detail, explanatory clauses and improved adjectives. The gospel has gained an extra eight thousand words. "Difficult" passages have been improved upon. Thus, for example, where Mark tells briefly of a freshly baptized Jesus, tempted in the wilderness by Satan, Matthew illustrates that temptation with three examples: taunts of bread from stones, falling from the temple pinnacle, and a gift of the world. Each example is drawn – not from history! – but from Jewish scripture (Deuteronomy and Psalms).

But why rewrite Mark at all?

Matthew is writing later. The Second Coming has not materialized, the Jews have suffered a second catastrophic defeat at the hands of Rome, and the Marcionites were already circulating an early version of Luke, diluting the Jewishness of the divine mission. Matthew will put the Jesus train back onto its Jewish tracks.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/matthew.htm

The Genealogy of Jesus – Matthew's edit

How the godman was given a bogus pedigree

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/genealogy-matthew.html

~MARK?

Fabricating the Jesus Story

The Gospel of 'Mark'

Bringing the Celestial Super-jew Down to Earth

Though for much of Christian history the gospel of Matthew has been given primacy that honour actually belongs to the gospel of Mark, the shortest and least sophisticated of the Jesus stories. Mark's literary creation was the starting point for both Matthew and Luke. Of approximately eleven thousand words found in Mark, ninety-five per cent of those words – entire paragraphs and stories in fact –  are reused in the gospel of Matthew and sixty-five per cent of them in the gospel of Luke. Contrariwise, where Matthew and Luke differ most from each other – in the nativity and resurrection episodes – it is in material not found and not copied from Mark. Thus, to understand the trajectory by which the Jesus tale developed from an original hero – a righteous man infused by God's holy spirit– through a hybrid godman possessing powers, to find final form as God incarnate on earth, one is best advised to begin with Mark's pithy masterpiece.

"Those who affirm him to have been a man, and to have been anointed by election, and then to have become Christ, appear to me to speak more plausibly than you who hold those opinions which you express." – Trypho to Justin, Dialogue with Trypho, XLIX.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/mark.htm

Michael A. Turton's Historical Commentary on the Gospel of Mark

This website contains a complete verse-by-verse commentary on the Gospel of Mark, focusing on the historicity of people, places, events, and sayings in the world of the Gospel of Mark. Where pertinent, useful, or just plain interesting, additional information is given.

http://www.michaelturton.com/Mark/GMark_index.html

  ~LUKE?

"An orderly account ... of things fulfilled"

A Gospel for Credulous Pagans

In the seminal works ascribed to Luke – the longest of the gospels and the Acts of the Apostles – the author makes no claim to have been a witness to Jesus or to have known Paul personally. All that he writes is hearsay, and, certainly in respect to Act's "biography" of Paul, scarcely agrees with a word from the apostle himself. It is questionable whether the author of the "genuine" Pauline letters knew of any "historian" named Luke, still less, travelled with him for any extensive period of time. Yet an "orderly account ... of things fulfilled" was certainly prepared during the course of the 2nd century and in the wrangle for "orthodoxy" the partisans of Christ needed to give this pious fantasy the seal of an author befitting its great purpose. But who could that be?

Who on earth was Luke?

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/luke.htm

The Genealogy of Jesus – Luke's edit

How the godman was given a bogus pedigree

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/genealogy-luke.html

~JOHN? A Gospel to Silence the Gnostics

The Gospel of "John"

The Gospel of John is a sophisticated deceit, much worked on by a gaggle of fraudsters. But when you tug at the seams the whole fabric of invention unravels.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/john.htm

Angry Jews and the "Churches of Asia"

The Apocalypse of John

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/revelation.htm

~PETER?

The curious career of "Saint Peter"

Linking Rome back to the Godman

In reaction to the runaway success of Marcion’s Pauline Christianity, scribes in Rome concocted a sacred history to bolster their own claim to singular authority. Their chosen hero figure was Peter, "first of the apostles".

But why did Rome need to make a saint out of Peter?

Making a Saint out of Peter

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/peter.htm ************************************************

PLEASE SEE OUR RELATED RESEARCH:

Exposing the Fictional Character of St. Paul the Apostle AKA Saul of Tarsus: Murdering Terrorist, Hallucinating Homophobe, and Evil Misogynist – Who wrote 13-14 of the 27 NT Books. 

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtnMZ4af

************************************************

The jesus Birther Movement (jBM) Research Database Directory

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtaKiFCa

The Official jesus Challenge: http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtlwRJgf

https://www.facebook.com/JesusBirtherMovement

http://www.facebook.com/JesusBirtherMovement/info

Debunking the Fraudulent christian Apologist List of Extra-biblical but non-contemporary, claimed “sources” used as jesus “evidence.” (Jewish, “Pagan,” Non-christian, “Secular”)

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtmt2ygH

Research Articles, Evidence and Videos that Prove a Historical jesus, NEVER Existed

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtmSTwHN

Please Join Pages In Our ExposingReligion Network

http://exposingreligionblog.tumblr.com/post/20825271431

See an organized listing of all of our research blogs: 

The purpose of this research is to refute John Meier’s “Minor Figure jesus” claims and excuses, attempting to explain away the fact that nobody in Early Antiquity, mentioned jesus. See our related papers: http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtnIWMxg

~66 Famous Historians and Writers From The 1st and 2nd Century, Who Never Mentioned Fictional jesus – The Screaming Silence of Real History 

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtnCiu1a

In the first century, jesus was a walking Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus and Macy’s Day Parade, rolled into one event.

  The Gospel of John states that Jesus did so many things that it would fill many books:

  John 21:25 “And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.”

  Yet, all of these things that Jesus was supposed to have done didn't fill any books except the New Testament.

  ~How Many Jews Followed Jesus: "Many Thousands" or "Many Tens of Thousands"?

  David Bivin, editor of JerusalemPerspective.com, discusses the Greek word for "tens of thousands" found in Acts 21:20 and explains why most English versions have decided to render the Greek word as "thousands," without even a footnote noting that the original Greek translation says "tens of thousands."

The original Greek New Testaments use the word muriadeV or `myriads,' translating to tens of thousands.

Christian exegetes and translators cannot imagine that there could have been tens of thousands of Jewish followers of Jesus in the city of Jerusalem in the mid-first century A.D. So, they purposely mistranslated the word and refused to mention it in any footnotes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKvP1mWO2Vg

  First, let’s look at the 2 separate food miracles of fictional jesus, where the bible claims he fed 5,000 and then 4,000 people using magic. None of the “claimed” thousands of witnesses independently wrote about it.

  ~Jesus Feeds the Five Thousand (4 accounts)

  ~Matthew 14:13-21

  13 When Jesus heard what had happened, he withdrew by boat privately to a solitary place. Hearing of this, the crowds followed him on foot from the towns.

  14 When Jesus landed and saw a large crowd, he had compassion on them and healed their sick.

  15 As evening approached, the disciples came to him and said, “This is a remote place, and it’s already getting late. Send the crowds away, so they can go to the villages and buy themselves some food.”

  16 Jesus replied, “They do not need to go away. You give them something to eat.” 17 “We have here only five loaves of bread and two fish,” they answered. 18 “Bring them here to me,” he said. 19 And he directed the people to sit down on the grass. Taking the five loaves and the two fish and looking up to heaven, he gave thanks and broke the loaves. Then he gave them to the disciples, and the disciples gave them to the people. 20 They all ate and were satisfied, and the disciples picked up twelve basketfuls of broken pieces that were left over.

  21 The number of those who ate was about five thousand men, besides women and children.

  Matthew 14:19 - King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) And he commanded the multitude to sit down on the grass, and took the five loaves, and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed, and brake, and gave the loaves to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude.

  ~Mark 6:31-44

  31 Then, because so many people were coming and going that they did not even have a chance to eat, he said to them, “Come with me by yourselves to a quiet place and get some rest.” 32 So they went away by themselves in a boat to a solitary place.

  33 But many who saw them leaving recognized them and ran on foot from all the towns and got there ahead of them.

  34 When Jesus landed and saw a large crowd, he had compassion on them, because they were like sheep without a shepherd. So he began teaching them many things.

  35 By this time it was late in the day, so his disciples came to him. “This is a remote place,” they said, “and it’s already very late. 36 Send the people away so that they can go to the surrounding countryside and villages and buy themselves something to eat.” 37 But he answered, “You give them something to eat.” They said to him, “That would take more than half a year’s wages! Are we to go and spend that much on bread and give it to them to eat?” 38 “How many loaves do you have?” he asked. “Go and see.” When they found out, they said, “Five—and two fish.”

  39 Then Jesus directed them to have all the people sit down in groups on the green grass.

  40 So they sat down in groups of hundreds and fifties.

  41 Taking the five loaves and the two fish and looking up to heaven, he gave thanks and broke the loaves. Then he gave them to his disciples to distribute to the people. He also divided the two fish among them all. 42 They all ate and were satisfied, 43 and the disciples picked up twelve basketfuls of broken pieces of bread and fish.

  44 The number of the men who had eaten was five thousand.

  ~Luke 9:10-17

  10 When the apostles returned, they reported to Jesus what they had done. Then he took them with him and they withdrew by themselves to a town called Bethsaida,

  11 but the crowds learned about it and followed him. He welcomed them and spoke to them about the kingdom of God, and healed those who needed healing.

  12 Late in the afternoon the Twelve came to him and said, “Send the crowd away so they can go to the surrounding villages and countryside and find food and lodging, because we are in a remote place here.”

  13 He replied, “You give them something to eat.” They answered, “We have only five loaves of bread and two fish—unless we go and buy food for all this crowd.”

  14 (About five thousand men were there.)

  But he said to his disciples, “Have them sit down in groups of about fifty each.”

  15 The disciples did so, and everyone sat down. 16 Taking the five loaves and the two fish and looking up to heaven, he gave thanks and broke them. Then he gave them to the disciples to distribute to the people. 17 They all ate and were satisfied, and the disciples picked up twelve basketfuls of broken pieces that were left over.

  ~John 6:5-15

  5 When Jesus looked up and saw a great crowd coming toward him, he said to Philip, “Where shall we buy bread for these people to eat?”

  6 He asked this only to test him, for he already had in mind what he was going to do. 7 Philip answered him, “It would take more than half a year’s wages to buy enough bread for each one to have a bite!” 8 Another of his disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, spoke up,

  9 “Here is a boy with five small barley loaves and two small fish, but how far will they go among so many?”

  10 Jesus said, “Have the people sit down.” There was plenty of grass in that place, and they sat down (about five thousand men were there).

  11 Jesus then took the loaves, gave thanks, and distributed to those who were seated as much as they wanted. He did the same with the fish. 12 When they had all had enough to eat, he said to his disciples, “Gather the pieces that are left over. Let nothing be wasted.” 13 So they gathered them and filled twelve baskets with the pieces of the five barley loaves left over by those who had eaten. 14 After the people saw the sign Jesus performed, they began to say, “Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world.” 15 Jesus, knowing that they intended to come and make him king by force, withdrew again to a mountain by himself.

  ~Jesus Feeds the Four Thousand (2 accounts)

  ~Mark 8:1-9

  1 During those days another large crowd gathered. Since they had nothing to eat, Jesus called his disciples to him and said,

  2 “I have compassion for these people; they have already been with me three days and have nothing to eat. 3 If I send them home hungry, they will collapse on the way, because some of them have come a long distance.” 4 His disciples answered, “But where in this remote place can anyone get enough bread to feed them?” 5 “How many loaves do you have?” Jesus asked. “Seven,” they replied. 6 He told the crowd to sit down on the ground. When he had taken the seven loaves and given thanks, he broke them and gave them to his disciples to distribute to the people, and they did so. 7 They had a few small fish as well; he gave thanks for them also and told the disciples to distribute them. 8 The people ate and were satisfied. Afterward the disciples picked up seven basketfuls of broken pieces that were left over.

  9 About four thousand were present. After he had sent them away,

  ~Matthew 15:32-39

  32 Jesus called his disciples to him and said, “I have compassion for these people; they have already been with me three days and have nothing to eat. I do not want to send them away hungry, or they may collapse on the way.”

  33 His disciples answered, “Where could we get enough bread in this remote place to feed such a crowd?”

  34 “How many loaves do you have?” Jesus asked. “Seven,” they replied, “and a few small fish.” 35 He told the crowd to sit down on the ground. 36 Then he took the seven loaves and the fish, and when he had given thanks, he broke them and gave them to the disciples, and they in turn to the people. 37 They all ate and were satisfied. Afterward the disciples picked up seven basketfuls of broken pieces that were left over.

  38 The number of those who ate was four thousand men, besides women and children.

  39 After Jesus had sent the crowd away, he got into the boat and went to the vicinity of Magadan.

  ***As we can see from the previous passages, 4-5,000 people are referred to as “large crowds” or “great crowds”. There are dozens of other passages mentioning many other separate “great crowds”.

  ~Here are some specific verses that give you an idea of how many followers and general witnesses that the bible claims that jesus really had.

  ~Note: some bible versions explain them as "large crowds" while others are more detailed by saying "multitudes."

  ***Remember, in the Greek language that the NT was written, "multitudes," means tens of thousands.

  ~Acts 21:20 - When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: "You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law.

  ~In the following 2 versions of the next verse, we see the words “many thousands”, used synonymously with “multitude of people”.

  Luke 12:1

  New International Version (©1984)

Meanwhile, when a crowd of many thousands had gathered, so that they were trampling on one another, Jesus began to speak first to his disciples, saying: "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

  King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

  Acts 13:45

  King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

  Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)

And when the Jews saw the great crowds, they were filled with anger, and they were opposing the words which Paulus was speaking and they were blaspheming.

  Acts 2:47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

  Acts 11:24 He was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and faith, and a great number of people were brought to the Lord.

  Luke 4:14 Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside.

  Luke 4:37 And the news about him spread throughout the surrounding area.

  Luke 5:1 One day as Jesus was preaching on the shore of the Sea of Galilee, great crowds pressed in on him to listen to the word of God.

  Luke 5:14-15

  New American Standard Bible (©1995)

  14 And all the more believers in the Lord, multitudes of men and women, were constantly added to their number,

  15 But the news about Him was spreading even farther, and large crowds were gathering to hear Him and to be healed of their sicknesses.

  King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

  14 And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)

  15 But so much the more went there a fame abroad of him: and great multitudes came together to hear, and to be healed by him of their infirmities.

  Luke 5:17 New Living Translation (©2007)

One day while Jesus was teaching, some Pharisees and teachers of religious law were sitting nearby. (It seemed that these men showed up from every village in all Galilee and Judea, as well as from Jerusalem.) And the Lord's healing power was strongly with Jesus.

  Luke 6:17 English Standard Version (©2001)

And he came down with them and stood on a level place, with a great crowd of his disciples and a great multitude of people from all Judea and Jerusalem and the seacoast of Tyre and Sidon,

  Luke 7:17 This news about Jesus spread throughout Judea and the surrounding country.

  Luke 8:4 English Standard Version (©2001)

And when a great crowd was gathering and people from town after town came to him, he said in a parable:

  John 6:2

  New Living Translation (©2007)

A huge crowd kept following him wherever he went, because they saw his miraculous signs as he healed the sick.

  King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

And a great multitude followed him, because they saw his miracles which he did on them that were diseased.

  Mark 1:28 News about him spread quickly over the whole region of Galilee.

  Mark 1:45 Instead he went out and began to talk freely, spreading the news. As a result, Jesus could no longer enter a town openly but stayed outside in lonely places. Yet the people still came to him from everywhere.

  Mark 2:2 Soon the house where he was staying was so packed with visitors that there was no more room, even outside the door. While he was preaching God's word to them,

  Mark 2:13

  GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)

Jesus went to the seashore again. Large crowds came to him, and he taught them.

  King James 2000 Bible (©2003)

And he went forth again by the sea side; and all the multitude came unto him, and he taught them.

  Mark 3:7

  English Standard Version (©2001)

Jesus withdrew with his disciples to the sea, and a great crowd followed, from Galilee and Judea

  New American Standard Bible (©1995)

Jesus withdrew to the sea with His disciples; and a great multitude from Galilee followed; and also from Judea,

  Mark 3:20

  New Living Translation (©2007)

One time Jesus entered a house, and the crowds began to gather again. Soon he and his disciples couldn't even find time to eat.

  King James 2000 Bible (©2003)

And the multitude came together again, so that they could not so much as eat bread.

  Mark 4:1

  New International Version (©1984)

Again Jesus began to teach by the lake. The crowd that gathered around him was so large that he got into a boat and sat in it out on the lake, while all the people were along the shore at the water's edge.

  English Standard Version (©2001)

Again he began to teach beside the sea. And a very large crowd gathered about him, so that he got into a boat and sat in it on the sea, and the whole crowd was beside the sea on the land.

  King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

And he began again to teach by the sea side: and there was gathered unto him a great multitude, so that he entered into a ship, and sat in the sea; and the whole multitude was by the sea on the land.

  Mark 5:21

  Weymouth New Testament

When Jesus had re-crossed in the boat to the other side, a vast multitude came crowding to Him; and He was on the shore of the Lake,

  Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)

And after Yeshua had crossed in the ship to the other side, great crowds were again assembled unto him while he was on the seaside.

  Mark 7:17 Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)

But when Yeshua entered the house from the crowds, his disciples asked him about that parable.

  Mark 7:36 New Living Translation (©2007)

Jesus told the crowd not to tell anyone, but the more he told them not to, the more they spread the news.

  Mark 10:1

  American Standard Version

And he arose from thence and cometh into the borders of Judaea and beyond the Jordan: and multitudes come together unto him again; and, as he was wont, he taught them again.

  Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)

And he arose from there and came to the borders of Judea to the crossing of the Jordan, and great crowds went there to join him, and he taught them again as he had been accustomed.

  Mark 14:43

  King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

And immediately, while he yet spake, cometh Judas, one of the twelve, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and the scribes and the elders.

  Darby Bible Translation

And immediately, while he was yet speaking, Judas comes up, being one of the twelve, and with him a great crowd, with swords and sticks, from the chief priests and the scribes and the elders.

  Matthew 4:23-25

  English Standard Version (©2001)

  23 And he went throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom and healing every disease and every affliction among the people.

  24 So his fame spread throughout all Syria, and they brought him all the sick, those afflicted with various diseases and pains, those oppressed by demons, epileptics, and paralytics, and he healed them.

  25 And great crowds followed him from Galilee and the Decapolis, and from Jerusalem and Judea, and from beyond the Jordan.

  King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

  23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

  24 And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.

  25 And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordan.

  Matthew 5:1

  New American Standard Bible (©1995)

When Jesus saw the crowds, He went up on the mountain; and after He sat down, His disciples came to Him.

  King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:

  Matthew 8:18

  King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

Now when Jesus saw great multitudes about him, he gave commandment to depart unto the other side.

  International Standard Version (©2008)

When Jesus saw the large crowds around him, he gave orders to cross to the other side of the Sea of Galilee.

  Matthew 9:26

  New Living Translation (©2007)

The report of this miracle swept through the entire countryside.

  American King James Version

And the fame hereof went abroad into all that land.

  Matthew 9:31 But instead, they went out and spread his fame all over the region.

  Matthew 9:36

  King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd.

  New International Version (©1984)

When he saw the crowds, he had compassion on them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd.

  Matthew 13:2

  King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.

  New American Standard Bible (©1995)

And large crowds gathered to Him, so He got into a boat and sat down, and the whole crowd was standing on the beach.

  The bible even claims that King Herod the Great heard of jesus. But history does not document any of those claims.

  http://www.livius.org/he-hg/herodians/herod_the_great01.html

  Mark 6:14

  New Living Translation (©2007)

Herod Antipas, the king, soon heard about Jesus, because everyone was talking about him. Some were saying, "This must be John the Baptist raised from the dead. That is why he can do such miracles."

  International Standard Version (©2008)

King Herod heard about this, because Jesus' name had become well-known. He was saying, "John the Baptist has been raised from the dead! That's why he is able to do these miracles."

  Matthew 14:1 At that time Herod the tetrarch heard the reports about Jesus,

  Matthew 15:30

  King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

And great multitudes came unto him, having with them those that were lame, blind, dumb, maimed, and many others, and cast them down at Jesus' feet; and he healed them:

  New American Standard Bible (©1995)

And large crowds came to Him, bringing with them those who were lame, crippled, blind, mute, and many others, and they laid them down at His feet; and He healed them.

  Matthew 19:2

  New International Version (©1984)

Large crowds followed him, and he healed them there.

  King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

And great multitudes followed him; and he healed them there.

  Matthew 21:9

  King James 2000 Bible (©2003) 

And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.

  International Standard Version (©2008)

Both the crowds that went ahead of him and those that followed him kept shouting, "Hosanna to the Son of David! How blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest heaven!"

  Matthew 26:55

  New American Standard Bible (©1995)

At that time Jesus said to the crowds, "Have you come out with swords and clubs to arrest Me as you would against a robber? Every day I used to sit in the temple teaching and you did not seize Me.

  King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

In that same hour said Jesus to the multitudes, Are ye come out as against a thief with swords and staves for to take me? I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me.

  Matthew 26:47

  English Standard Version (©2001)

While he was still speaking, Judas came, one of the twelve, and with him a great crowd with swords and clubs, from the chief priests and the elders of the people.

  King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people.

  Matthew 28:15 So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day.

  Matthew 24:14 - And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

  ~500 More claimed witnesses:

  In the christian apologist efforts to provide bible "evidence" for the Resurrection, they cling to these passages:

  *1 Corinthians 15:4-8

  4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

  5 and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve.

  6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep.

  7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles,

  8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

  ***Note: The claimed writer of these passages, Paul, never met jesus in person. So how does he know there were 500 people? Who were they? Why don't we have any testimony from any of these five hundred people?  Why didn’t any of them, independently write about this? It sure is easy to pen “500 anonymous witnesses” with unsourced hearsay and have each mystery person count as a first hand witness in the mind of Christian apologists.

  ~A little off topic:

Christians claim: In any court of law, witnesses are invaluable. In the whole of Judea and Samaria, there were several hundred of witnesses who saw Jesus before and after His crucifixion.

They use these passages as evidence as well:

Act 1:3

After his suffering, he showed himself to these men and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. 

Acts 2:32

God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact.

1 Corinthians 15:6 (NLT)

After that, he was seen by more than 500 of his followers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have died.

One of the world’s foremost experts in lines of evidence was Simon Greenleaf, an American attorney,  jurist and christian apologist (1783-1853). In his book the “Testimony of the Evangelists”, he views the multiple eye-witness accounts of Jesus and His death and resurrection (in the New Testament) as valid lines of evidence that would be admissible in a court of law. They meet or exceed evidential requirements, so much so that Greenleaf saw the “martyrdoms, exponential church growth and the persistent-through-persecution faith of the believers (often, even up to death), as solid as evidence that there can possibly be.  And in the legal process, there is no statute of limitations for murder.

The jesus Birther Movement (jBM) Research Database Directory

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtaKiFCa

The Official jesus Challenge: http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtlwRJgf

https://www.facebook.com/JesusBirtherMovement

http://www.facebook.com/JesusBirtherMovement/info

Debunking the Fraudulent christian Apologist List of Extra-biblical but non-contemporary, claimed “sources” used as jesus “evidence.” (Jewish, “Pagan,” Non-christian, “Secular”)

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtmt2ygH

Research Articles, Evidence and Videos that Prove a Historical jesus, NEVER Existed

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Please Join Pages In Our ExposingReligion Network

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See an organized listing of all of our research blogs: 

The purpose of this research is to refute the christian apologist strategy of rewriting fictional jesus as a “minor figure” or just a “blip on the radar of history.”

Our Research Paper: ~66 Famous Historians and Writers From The 1st and 2nd Century, Who Never Mentioned Fictional jesus – The Screaming Silence of Real History 

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtnCiu1a

  Today, jesus is so famous that you could take: The Beatles, Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson, William Shakespeare, Albert Einstein, Christopher Columbus, Leonardo Da Vinci, Pablo Piccaso, Vincent Van Gogh, Ludwig van Beethoven, Napoleon, Gandhi, Walt Disney, Martin Luther King, John F. Kennedy, Abraham Lincoln, Michelangelo, George Washington, Thomas Edison, Sigmund Freud, Isaac Newton, Neil Armstrong, Mozart, Samuel L Jackson, Tom Hanks, Harrison Ford, Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Mickey Mantle, Joe Namath, Peyton Manning, Emmitt Smith, Lawrence Taylor, Joe Montana, Muhammad Ali, Rocky Marciano, Joe Frazier, Evandeer Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Pele, David Beckham, Andre Agassi, Andy Roddick, Rafael Nadal, Tiger Woods, Phil Mickelson, Arnold Palmer, Michael Phelps, Carl Lewis, Dale Earnhardt, Jimmie Johnson, David Pearson, Jeff Gordon, Richard Petty, Wayne Gretzky, as well as Mario Lemieux and combine them as one person. Then, mix in the magic of David Copperfield, Harry Houdini, David Blaine and Criss Angel, with the medical genius of Jonas Salk, Alexander Fleming, Sir William Osler, Harvey Williams Cushing, Christiaan Barnard, Joseph Lister, and Michael DeBakey. This super-fame-magic-medical man, still couldn’t come close to the bible’s fictional character of jesus, as he is believed in by so many, today. ~But was he famous during his claimed New Testament life in the first century? Most followers would laugh at such a silly question and say yes but that belief is shifting, in order to cover-up why nobody ever wrote about him during his claimed life and over 100+ years later.

  In the “invention stage” of christianity, jesus’ fame was vital and it was used gloriously to spread their religion, but now it is a MAJOR problem for the Church and their apologists. Much to the church’s miscalculations, people are now free to question without the church arresting and killing them. I don’t think the church ever figured on their slip of total power along with our amazing information and communication era that we have today.

Free-Thinkers and non-christians have researched the story of jesus and found that every single claim, aspect and detail of jesus has absolutely ZERO evidence. There is nothing except the bible. The christian leaders around the world have been scrambling in a desperation to prove their claims but they hold an empty basket. They pump out more apologists, “scholars,” theocrats and theologians than ever before but they only have one book to go with. Their strategy is simple. They have to lie and repeatedly, so it sticks; and it sure has.

~Who is John P. Meier?

John Paul Meier (born 1942) is a biblical "scholar" and Catholic priest. He attended St. Joseph's Seminary and College (B.A., 1964), Gregorian University Rome (S.T.L, 1968), and the Biblical Institute Rome (S.S.D., 1976). He is author of the series A Marginal Jew: Rethinking the Historical Jesus (4 v.), six other books, and more than 70 articles for peer-reviewed or solicited journals or books.

Meier is the William K. Warren Professor of Theology at the University of Notre Dame. His fields include biblical studies and Christianity/Judaism in antiquity. Before coming to Notre Dame, he was professor of New Testament at The Catholic University of America.

John Meier is a leader in the “jesus-blip on the screen of history” strategy. He wants people to believe that jesus would have been a minor figure of the 1st century, thus explaining the lack of evidence on their side.

John Meier argues against John Remsberg’s list (from his book, The Christ.) of over 40 writers, who are silent about jesus:

"Why should any of these people have mentioned Jesus?"

“The list is presented flat, as though it is obvious that merely by being in the same century as Jesus, something requires these writers to make mention of him. “

“This argument goes, “Surely if a miracle worker like Jesus existed, there writers would have mentioned him.” But this argument lacks a certain perspective. It assumes that any non-Christian author who heard about Jesus would automatically believe, and therefore consider worth reporting, any stories about him – without any critical consideration.  “

“In fact, the immediate reaction of people in the first century to the story of Jesus would have been one of disgust and disdain. Jesus would not be considered worthy of report, and stories of his miracle-working would have been immediately dismissed. Why?”

Biblical "scholar," John Meier offers these reasons why someone like Jesus would not make it into the typical ancient history:

As far as the historians of the day were concerned, he was just a "blip" on the screen.

Jesus did not address the Roman Senate, or write extensive Greek philosophical treatises; he never traveled outside of the regions of Palestine, and was not a member of any known political party. It is only because Christians later made Jesus a "celebrity" that He became known. Biblical scholar E. P. Sanders, comparing Jesus to Alexander, notes that the latter "so greatly altered the political situation in a large part of the world that the main outline of his public life is very well known indeed. Jesus did not change the social, political and economic circumstances in Palestine ...the superiority of evidence for Jesus is seen when we ask what he thought." Biblical scholar Murray Harris adds that "Roman writers could hardly be expected to have foreseen the subsequent influence of Christianity on the Roman Empire and therefore to have carefully documented" Christian origins.

Jesus was executed as a criminal, providing him with the ultimate marginality. This was one reason why historians would have ignored Jesus. He suffered the ultimate humiliation, both in the eyes of Jews (Deut. 21:23 - Anyone hung on a tree is cursed!) and the Romans (He died the death of slaves and rebels.). On the other hand, Jesus was a minimal threat compared to other "Messiahs" of the time. Rome had to call out troops to quell the disturbances caused by the unnamed Egyptian referenced in the Book of Acts. In contrast, no troops were required to suppress Jesus' followers. To the Romans, the primary gatekeepers of written history at the time, and others who wrote history, Jesus during His own life would have been no different than thousands of other everyday criminals that were crucified.

Jesus marginalized himself by being occupied as an itinerant preacher. Of course, there was no Palestine News Network, and even if there had been one, there were no televisions to broadcast it. Jesus never used the established "news organs" of the day to spread His message. He traveled about the countryside, avoiding for the most part (and with the exception of Jerusalem) the major urban centers of the day. How would we regard someone who preached only in sites like, say, Hahira, Georgia?

Jesus' teachings did not always jibe with, and were sometimes offensive to, the established religious order of the day. It has been said that if Jesus appeared on the news today, it would be as a troublemaker. He certainly did not make many friends as a preacher.

Jesus lived an offensive lifestyle and alienated many people. He associated with the despised and rejected: Tax collectors, prostitutes, and the band of fishermen He had as disciples.

Jesus was a poor, rural person in a land run by wealthy urbanites. Yes, class discrimination was alive and well in the first century also!

Therefore, “Remsberg’s List” fails as an argument because it lacks perspective. ********************************************************************************************

Funny, how they really have to marginalize their jesus, in an attempt to try to make this strategy seem to work. There are many people in the 1st century that WERE written about, that a majority of Meier’s 5 points would describe as well. His 5 points, in no way represent factual prerequisites of who gets lost to our history books.

In order to establish why a secular historian would refuse to write about jesus, Meier offers:

   “Jesus' teachings did not always jibe with, and were sometimes offensive to, the established religious order of the day.”

  Meier’s bible claim would actually draw much more attention by historians on either side of religion. This would make jesus stick out of the crowd of rabbis. His claim points to a grand conspiracy between almost several dozen historians and writers of the time.

  Meier, also questioned the honesty and integrity of church leaders by claiming that jesus was pretty much a “nobody” and then stated: “Christians later made Jesus a "celebrity.” He has to admit that the New Testament writers were writing fiction about his claimed “historical” jesus. He acknowledges deceit and dishonesty in the Christian doctrine.

  A historian of that time, does not have to “believe” (As Meier claims) that jesus is who he claims, in order to report the largest news story of the 1st century. According to the bible, jesus had tens of thousands of followers and most everyone in the Middle East knew who he was. The same, one book that Meier uses to dismiss his jesus’ fame, can be used to debunk Meier’s claim. As a bible scholar, Meier has to know the mountain of bible evidence that disproves his claims. Yet, he makes these false statements. The bible debunks the bible despite Christian claims that the bible proves the bible. “Jesus was a poor?” With 10,000+ followers, he would have been well off.

  ~Now, let’s see the counter-evidence:

~The bible claims that fictional jesus was one of the Most Famous people of the 1st century, with tens of thousands of followers – The New Testament is the ONLY Source for jesus.

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtnIZY-h

~66 Famous Historians and Writers From The 1st and 2nd Century, Who Never Mentioned Fictional jesus – The Screaming Silence of Real History 

http://tmblr.co/ZkpfQtnCiu1a ~See Richard Carrier’s work on the same subject:

  A Silence That Screams (No contemporary historical accounts for jesus)

  http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/A_Silence_That_Screams#No_one_would_have_noticed.2C_because_.22Jesus.22_was_a_minor_figure

  From the above link: Counter-arguments

  For those who wish to respond to this Essay:

  First, those who wish to question my argument from Silence, please recognize that my argument not only meets all of the requirements, it actually meets the criteria required for a strengthened Argument from silence

  Now, if you still wish to respond, unless you have entirely new points to raise, please save yourself some time and note which of the canned excuses you're selecting:

No one would have noticed, because "Jesus" was a minor figure.

  This response simply ignores the essay. Reread the opening points on the book of Mark, which demonstrate that the Jesus presented in the Gospels cannot be sanely held to be a figure that anyone could ignore, no matter their pre-xistent beliefs.

  Richard Carrier writes:

  One could say that Jesus was an insignificant, illiterate, itinerant preacher with a tiny following, who went wholly unnoticed by any literate person in Judaea. However, this would not bode well for anyone who wished to maintain he was God, or did any of the more amazing things attributed to him. It is very implausible, for instance, that a biography would be written for the obscure itinerant philosopher Demonax in his own lifetime (by Lucian), yet God Incarnate, or a Great Miracle Worker who riled up all Judaea with talk, should inspire nothing like it until decades after his death. And though several historians wrote on Judaean affairs in the early 1st century (not just Josephus and Tacitus, but several others no longer extant), none apparently mentioned Jesus (see the Secular Web library on Historicity). Certainly, had anyone done so, the passages would probably have been lovingly preserved by 2nd century Christians, or else inspired angry rebuttals.

  For instance, the attacks of Celsus, Hierocles, and Porphyry, though destroyed by Christians and thus no longer extant (another example of the peculiar problem of Christian history discussed above), nevertheless remain attested in the defenses written by Origen, Eusebius, and Macerius Magnes. But no earlier attacks are attested. There is no mention of Christians in Plutarch's attack On Superstition, nor a rebuttal to any attack on Christianity in Seneca's lost work On Superstition (which ruthlessly attacked pagans and Jews, as attested in book 10 of Augustine's City of God), so it seems evident Christians got no mention even there, in a text against alien cults, by a man who would have witnessed the Neronian persecution of 64 A.D. (alternatively, the fact that this is the only work of Seneca's not to be preserved, despite the fact that Christians must surely have been keen to preserve an anti-pagan text by a renowned pagan, might mean it contained some damning anti-Christian material and was suppressed, though Augustine clearly had access to the work and says nothing about such content). All of this suggests a troubling dichotomy for believers: either Jesus was a nobody (and therefore not even special, much less the Son of God) or he did not exist.[24]

  "The people I listed wouldn't care about writing about a god striding the earth in earthly form, attracting throngs of people and working miracles... because they preferred to focus on other things... like philosophy."

  Response: Sure, and people dealing with philosophy, the meaning of life, matters of the true nature of existence, would not be interested in a godman striding the earth, working miracles, offering redemption, because such things have nothing to do with the meaning of life...

  Please think your argument through. It relies on circular logic when the very conclusion of such an argument is being ruled out in the first place: Had they encountered such a being, it's unlikely that they would have carried on writing about other matters in the first place. The fact that they did focus on other matters works against you, not for you.

We would never expect disinterested parties, or outright 'enemies' of Christianity to record it, since it would not serve their purposes.

  First, we would expect to hear criticisms and attacks from enemies.

  But more importantly, this is circular logic. If the book of Mark, a book that reports epoch shattering events, is a historical account, then how could there be so many disinterested third parties and outright enemies of Christianity in the first place? It is simply begging the question to assume that doubters would remain doubters, even in the face of overwhelming evidence as per the claims of the book of Mark. It is simply backwards logic to argue that doubters would simply remain doubters: the more parsimonious explanation is that these amazing events didn't occur in the first place. This better explains the silence.

  As Richard Carrier writes:

  "Of course, if the evidence were really so clear, there would not be many enemies in the first place: many leading, literate Jews would have converted, many more than just Paul, and all would have left us letters and documents about their experiences and reasons. But that would fall under the category of eyewitness testimony, of which we have none, except Paul, who of course never testifies to ever meeting Jesus in the flesh, to seeing the empty grave, or to seeing the actual corpse of Jesus rising and talking. In fact, Paul never really says anyone saw these things.

  Instead, my category of hostile attestation is distinct from this, for if even those who don't like it or don't believe it nevertheless report it, even if only to denounce or deny it or explain it away, that is itself stronger evidence than we now have. For example, if we had what Matthew claims the Jews were saying in Matthew 28:11-15 from a first-century Jewish writer, that would be hostile attestation.[11] Certainly many Jews would have an interest in publishing such lies or explanations, if in fact Christians were making such claims then, and there really were enough Christians making these claims for anyone to care. Instead, the complete absence of any Jewish texts attacking Christianity in the first century is astonishing--unless Christianity was a socially microscopic cult making unverifiably subjective claims of revelations from God that no one could falsify. Otherwise, ancient authors were not beneath writing tracts slandering other people, and later pagan authors had no scruple against attacking the Christians. So why did no one attack the Christians earlier? There are problems here, surely."[25]

  "Remsberg was refuted a long time ago."

  This essay corrects the flaws in his argument. However, while many have pointed out flaws in Remsberg's original list, his main point still stands: it's ridiculous to claim that a historian or a philosopher wouldn't be interested in mentioning that he saw a god man working miracles. In addition, those who questioned the original list by pointing to authors of questionable merit, critics rarely, if ever bothered to concede the existence of early authors whose works are lost to us, but would have been available to second century Christians.

  Argument from silence

  The Argument from Silence suggests that in the absence of information, the dearth of evidence is in itself a form of evidence.

  How to make an Argument from Silence

  To be valid, the argument from silence must fulfill two conditions: the writer[s] whose silence is invoked would certainly have known about it; [and] knowing it, he would under the circumstances certainly have made mention of it. When these two conditions are fulfilled, the argument from silence proves its point with moral certainty.

  It ought to be clear to even the casual reader that the men I have cited meet both criteria.

  In addition, the historian Richard Carrier suggests two additional criteria to strengthen an argument from silence:

  1) Whether or not it is common for men to create similar myths.

It is prima facie true that this is the case. History is replete not only with 'god' claims, but with claims for messiah status.

  2) The claim is of an extraordinary nature, it violates what we already know of nature.

(Important note: this is not to rule out extraordinary claims, a priori.)

  The miracle claims in the book of Mark violate what we know of nature.

  The argument presented here meets the two additional criteria.

  Also see: Did Jesus Exist? Earl Doherty and the Argument to Ahistoricity (2002) Richard Carrier

  http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/jesuspuzzle.html#

  Carrier writes: There are two ways to "prove" ahistoricity:

  (1) If you can demonstrate that there is both (a) insufficient evidence to believe x and (b) sufficient evidence to disbelieve x, then it is reasonable to disbelieve x. This is the "Argument from Silence."

  (2) If you can demonstrate that all the evidence can be far better accounted for by a theory (y) other than historicity (theory x), then it is reasonable to believe y and, consequently, to disbelieve x. This is the "Argument to the Best Explanation."

  For more on evidential arguments from silence:

  http://www.umass.edu/wsp/methodology/outline/silence.html

***********************

The jesus Birther Movement (jBM) Research Database Directory

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Debunking the Fraudulent christian Apologist List of Extra-biblical but non-contemporary, claimed “sources” used as jesus “evidence.” (Jewish, “Pagan,” Non-christian, “Secular”)

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