Sal

shuffle your 'on repeat' playlist, post the first ten tracks , then tag ten people.

2. Lilac Wine - Jeff Buckley

1. Downfall - Noah Kahan

3. Tulsa '67 - Brody Grant, Sky Lakota Lynch, Original Broadway Cast of The Outsiders - A New Musical

4. Stay Gold - Sky Lakota Lynch, Brody Grant, Original Broadway Cast of The Outsiders - A New Musical

5. Run Run Brother - Joshua Boone, Brody Grant, Sky Lakota Lynch, Original Broadway Cast of The Outsiders - A New Musical

6. Jet Song - Mike Faist, Kyle Coffman, Kevin Csolak etc

7. Hopeless War - Emma Pittman, Brody Grant, Original Broadway Cast of The Outsiders - A New Musical

8. 500 Miles - Peter, Paul and Mary

9. Last Goodbye - Jeff Buckley

10. First Date / Last Night - Lindsay Mendez, Derek Klena

so much of the outsiders... I have a good music taste i promise, its just been taking over me lately

2. Candy Necklaces — Lana del rey

3. Bad Reilgon — Frank Ocean

4. Spectre— Radiohead

5. Thursday girl—Mitski

6. Witches Rave — Jeff Buckley

7. Perdeme— Miguel

8. 7 words—Deftones

9. Vueltas— Not for radio

I’ve actually been meaning to discuss this…and seeing as you (and I know it’s just you) have left about 5 asks telling me you think my takes are ass, I’d like to explain my pov.

In the outsiders:

Randy’s moral superiority comes from recognizing the emptiness and useless violence (specifically and greasers and Soc’s), while also never separating himself from it. After Bob dies, he tells Pony he’s sick of it, and that the violence doesn’t solve anything (which, does make him a little more self%-aware than most Socs).

But. That’s kinda undermined by the fact that he sticks with Bob until the very end. He goes along with his behavior, including when Bob jumps Johnny, and when they try to drown Pony. He never tries to stop it. His reflection ONLY comes after he gets hit with real consequences. Randy sees himself as better than the people around him, more thoughtful, but he actively benefits and is complacent in the system. He can say all he wants and talk all this talk…but would he ever be friends with a greaser? Especially before Bob was killed? Did he stick his head out to save Pony or Johnny? No. He talks all this talk about knowing the right way, but refuses to actually do anything.

From what I’ve seen, A similar idea appears in That Was Then, This Is Now (never read it), where characters begin to recognize the damage caused by their environment and act as though they’ve outgrown it before truly changing their behavior. Like those characters, Randy adopts a tone of quiet judgment and detachment, even though he has not taken full responsibility for his past actions.

Randy’s moral superiority is not entirely false, he IS more aware, but it’s incomplete, because he distances himself from the problem without ever fully confronting his role in it.

And yeah, I get the point of the book. This IS the point of the book. Everyone’s a problem, to an extent. There’s the people actively participating, like Bob or Dallas. And there’s the people who clearly know there is a problem, but refuses to do anything to solve it. Everyone is complacent in one way or another. I’m not saying he’s the only morally ehh character, but you can’t talk about him without admitting it. And a LOT of Randy fans like to act like he was ‘the good one’, when again, he was there for a lot of the rougher moments and decided to stand safely and watch, because it didn’t affect him. He ONLY talked to Pony when he was finally given consequences for his actions.

And I feel like I always have to mention this….obviously you can like Bob or Randy, whatever…I just thinks it’s rich that even in a book specifically about the struggles a group of greasers face, some still manage to focus purely on the rich white guys who have been PROVEN to be douchebags.

No one argues that Randy would be friends with a Greaser before. Because he wouldn't. None of the Socs like Greasers, and prior to Bob's death, Randy hated them too. The whole point is Bob's death MAKES him realise. He thinks he's better before Bob's death, because that's all he's ever been taught.

I have so many thoughts on this, and I think people who hate Randy are unjustified. Even hating Bob, is a bit extreme.

I want to start this saying what I already said. The outsiders is POLITICAL!!! You need to look at some of these things politically.

#1, the thing about SE is a MAJOR oversimplification of what she actually said. You’re saying she claims the book’s whole point is “everybody is an outsider,” but if we’re referncing the 2017 interview (where I assume you’re pulling this from). She says she was angry about her own schools social situation at her Highschool, and the story began after her friend was beaten on his way home. She says she wanted to write realistic teenage life from her POV. The reason I’m bring that up is because the book is not just vaguely “both sides suffer”. It begins from class conflict and violence (mostly by teh socs). Like, yes, teh Soc’s are humans too. But the book is literally rooted in the greasers being targeted.

Also saying my none of the Soc’s like greasers at all is just…false? What about Cherry and Marcia? They show a liking towards Johnny, Pony, and Two-Bit (and Dallas if you count that) before bobs death. Literally their purpose is to break Pony’s view that all Socs are faceless enemies. In the literal spark it’s of the book it says Cherry “gets along well with some of the greasers” and she likes pb&j bc they are polite. So saying “none of the Socs like Greasers before Bob’s death” is just wrong.

Besides, so many Randy fans love to put him as the good one. Just look up how much content is made of him and Pony magically becoming friends or dating after the whole ordeal.

Randy is not just “taught wrong” (which is the babying excuse a lot of soc defenders love to say). he actively participates in the violence. He was present when Johnny was being beaten. He knows how his friends are and helps them. He even goes with Bob to scare PB&J both times (at the drive in, and at bobs death). And I need I remind you he isn’t five years old? He knows damn well what he’s doing. Why do you think all of the times the greasers are being attacked is at night and in private? They KNOW they’re doing wrong and they KNOW they should be getting in trouble for it.

Also another issue I have with Randy and Bob is how they treat Cherry and Marcia. They are utter douchebags. They do things that make their girls uncomfortable, act super possessive and downright abusive to them (especially in the musical adapatation). And laugh off and bitch about their uncomfort.

And yes, Randy does change some after Bob dies. But he’s not magically some softy like you’re making him out to be. The spark notes literally call Randy a bully who thinks greasers are hoodlums. All Bobs death makes him do is make him lose interest in actively fighting, which I think most of agree is out of fear that he will be next. Randy is not some passive bystander.

And you know what, I think him only changing after Bob dies is PART OF THE ISSUE!!! He only starts to see the greasers as real people after he faces some consequence! He is selfish! He doesn’t care about hurting other people until he is hurt too.

And Bob isn’t some misunderstood baby. He is more humanized after death, yes. Cherry loved him. Randy grieves him. He’s a real guy with friends and family. But Bob still did terrible things.

SparkNotes’ Bob analysis says Bob is “violent and possessive,” and that he badly beat Johnny (the cheek scar, I’m sure we all remember). And a side tangent I’d like to remind you that he and Randy and some others beat Johnny (a kid who has been beat and tossed around his whole life) literally TERRIFIED to the point it change his personality and that he was constantly in fear. Nobody should be absolved of a crime like that. That’s why I think the whole “hating Bob is extreme” is not some objective truth that we should all smile and nod for. Bob’s violence should have consequences, alongside Randy’s.

And still, Randy’s whole “realization” is incomplete. Randy does change some, sure. But he isn’t an Angel. He even reminds Pony that he still thinks there are necessary seperations between the two classes with the whole “Greasers will still be greasers and Socs will still be Socs” nonsense. He wholeheartedly believes that the two classes are stuck inside those identities and does absolutely nothing to fight it, and continues to benefit..

That is not the worldview of someone who has unlearned class prejudice. It is more like him saying the fighting is pointless because the system won’t change. That’s a bitter realization, sure, not a noble one that absolves him of all he’s done.

And when Randy asks Ponyboy why he saved the children from the burning church! he says he “can’t believe that a greaser would do anything like that.” That is pretty damning if you ask me. Even after this he still believes that greasers are these nasty creatures who aren’t really capable of being noble people. Even after the church fire, Randy is still literally shocked by the idea that a greaser could be heroic. No less a greaser he helped beat the shit out of for no reason!

And finally, the biggest theme of the outsiders to me is actually empathy. Se Hinton is saying that the Soc’s are humans, but that doesn’t excuse all that they do. And I somewhat disagree with how she phrases things bc I don’t think occasional struggles mean that someone isn’t a bad person. Bob and Randy literally brutalized two younger teens, several times. They were literally trying to drown Pony for talking to Cherry and Marcia…once!

Bob and Randy didn’t do anything that the greasers weren’t also doing. Dally, Steve, Twobit, any of the Shepards or Brumley boys could have the same point brought up aganist them. And if the book was from the other side, it would be. We can run in circles on which side is ‘good’ and ‘bad’ but it isn’t going to ever bring an answer (because neither is one of these things)

Unlike some of you, I don't equate alcoholism and class status with moral failing.

Every character in The Outsiders is very complicated, and that's kind of the point. Two-Bit has a good heart. His alcoholism is 100% a problem, as is his laziness. But to say he's no better than Johnny's dad who beats the hell out of him is actually very concerning.

Yes, Two-Bit didn't tell Darry about Pony being sick. But pony begged him not to. And Two literally felt guilty about it after the fact.

Two-Bit cussed out Johnny's mom at the hospital, in Johnny's defense.

Two-Bit wanted to drive down to Texas to look for Pony and Johnny when they ran away.

But all of that goes away because he's an alcoholic? Really?

Two's character is a reflection on very real issues that people like him faced. The system set him up for failure, despite the fact that he probably could have been "better" if his environment allowed that. Which is the point of the book.