Hey man. Sorry about this, but I am arguing with one of my friends about Israel. I know you had some good posts on the arguments about the sterilization of the Beta Israel and the Nakba, but I'm struggling to find them. (I am looking for other sources, but your stuff was striking the first time I read it.) Do you know what you tagged those with? Alternatively, what sources do you recommend? Thank you!
Here are some posts I'm rather proud of, and hope you will find helpful. Tags are below.
There were no sterilizations.
What caused the Nakba?
Why the abandonment of the Jews made Zionism necessary.
There was no "peaceful coexistence before 1948".
Ottoman Muslim settler-colonialism in 1800s Palestine.
"Israeli apartheid" is a bad-faith lie.
"Palestine is a climate / environment issue" is an even bigger lie.
Was Nazism wrong, or just wrong when white people did it?
Killing Jews is not - and can never be - "liberation"
What did famous civil rights activists think of Jews and Israel?
How often did the media lie about conditions in Gaza?
BDS is the abstinence-only sex education of the Left
Palestine is the Confederate Lost Cause of the Left
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from what i've observed, i do think there is some pressure for women in not explicitly feminist leftist circles to affect a kind of "cool girl" posture for the benefit of the men in the movement
I don't think we should give leftist feminists a pass. Planned Parenthood only rescinded their endorsement of him after the rape allegations. They were evidentially fine with him physically abusing one of his ex-girlfriends and breaking into another ex's house.
Planned Parenthood has dozens of affiliates across the country. Some of the affiliates have engaged in union busting activity. Most have not. The actual Planned Parenthood organization, the Planned Parenthood Federation of America, and the Planned Parenthood Action Fund, its national advocacy and fundraising center, are firmly on the left (and they both have unions). PPAF makes Planned Parenthood's political endorsements. PPAF endorsed Platner and only revoked the endorsement after he was accused of rape.
ICC prosecutor Karim Khan raped a pro-Palestine woman, then fast-tracked his charges against Netanyahu in an attempt to keep her silent for the good of the cause.
Real jumpscare at the end of this May 2026 Pew poll.
If you dig into the polling methodology, they asked about 12,000 people, of whom 1,545 were Jewish and 525 were Muslim. This significantly OVER-polls both Jews (12% of respondents, 2% USA) and Muslims (4% respondents, 1% USA).
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hey. not sure if anyone will see this but just mostly looking to vent about a complex situation.
my partner (Jewish) and I (supportive goy atheist) have made a new friend (Arab Muslim), and we obviously have some different beliefs and opinions but also a lot of shared values, so the friendship has been strong thus far.
there are some instances where we have to bite our tongues, in regard to the I/P conflict mainly, though we are starting to push back in small ways such as, yes Hamas is an armed terrorist group, most Jews/Israelis don't support the government's actions, etc. this all came to a head last night when we made the *very* controversial statement: Jews are indigenous to the Levant.
I'm shocked at how she was unwilling to accept that, she became stubborn, defaulted to her mother's opinion, and started asserting that all Jewish prophets/architecture/holy sites are actually Islamic, and not Jewish, since they were sent/built/assigned by G-d. this, naturally, extends her opinion to that of modern day Jews being totally genetically unrelated to the ancient Israelites. blatant erasure and rewriting of Jewish history, centring Islam even though the Quran is demonstrably younger than the Tanakh. my partner understandably lashed out as their cultural ancestry was being disrespected. we tried to explain that there's a difference between respecting others' beliefs, vs one's beliefs directly erasing an entire group's existence from history, but she kept falling back on "history is written by the victors, we have no real way of knowing anything given that we didn't live back then".
it is the next day and there has been no hint of an apology, or even an acknowledgment. we left hers on good terms last night, but I know I need to bring this up with her, how the fuck do I even start. I just want to gently but firmly clarify that she is entitled to her beliefs, but her assertion that the Jewish prophets and architecture were simply Islamic all along is disrespectful and quite hurtful to Jews, particularly my partner
That is, unfortunately, Islamic doctrine (codified by the concept of Tahrif).
In essence, according to that doctrine, all of the Biblical peoples, sites, and narratives were actually Arab Muslims, but then the Jewish leaders/scribes/people/rabbis/etc got their hands on the texts and maliciously edited them for... reasons. And since this malicious editing meant that the word of god was being hoarded by the Jews, that then required Allah to send additional prophets (Jesus and then, when he "failed", Mohammad) to "correct" things back to where they "should" have been.
It's also the basis for a number of other really nasty bits of Islamic antisemitism--for example, apparently the Jewish tribes in Arabia were not there because of the Diaspora, but that they had moved there in anticipation of another divine prophet to fight against, and when they met Mohammad, they recognized him as their anticipated and intended enemy. (And I'm not exaggerating--that's literally what's taught by Islamists; it's given pretty much verbatim in this video at the ten minute mark). In terms of implications, just think of what that little narrative means--that all Jews, or at least Jewish leadership, knows the "truth" (that Islam is the actual origin and belief system) rejects it out of sheer contrariness, and work conspiratorially to keep it buried.
When that's what is taught to the average, well-meaning Muslim, like your associate, about Jewish history, identity, and culture...
Is that behavior you experienced really any surprise?
Question that I'm asking in good faith because I really do want to know about it: why does Herzl describe israel as a colony if it isn't one?
(All good faith questions are welcome, Anon - thanks for this one!)
TLDR: Because words change meanings over time and Herzl wasn't psychic.
In the 1890s, "colony" just meant a planned settlement or concentrated community. This included Jewish agricultural colonies in the Pale, temperance colonies in Colorado, and utopian communes everywhere.
It was basically the Victorian word for "intentional community," with absolutely no imperial baggage required.
The specific meaning activists now deploy (colony as racial domination, metropole extraction, indigenous suppression) is a 20th century framework that didn't exist when Herzl was writing in 1896.
So a reader of the 21st century finds the word "colony" in an old text and assumes it carries a technical definition that was coined decades later.
It's a little like finding the word "trauma" in a Civil War field report and concluding the surgeon was diagnosing PTSD.
Meanwhile, 'settler colonialism' as applied to Israel isn't a neutral analytical tool that happens to fit badly. It's a framework specifically constructed to exclude the features that distinguish Jewish return from actual settler colonialism...and it still fails on its own stated terms.
Jewish immigrants to the Levant were never agents of any empire. They were overwhelmingly refugees from empires who were fleeing Russian pogroms, Eastern European persecution, and later Nazi Germany. No metropole sent them. No metropole would take them back if the project failed.
That's not a minor quibble about definitions, either - it's the primary distinction between settler colonialism and every other form of large population movement in history.
There's also the matter of indigeneity. The Jews returning to the Levant weren't arriving in a place with which they had no connection.
Jewish presence in the region is documented continuously from ancient history, including in Egyptian records dating to roughly 1210 BCE.
The religious, linguistic, and ancestral connection to the land is what distinguishes this case from the British in Kenya or the French in Algeria, who had no such ties - and it is some of the best-documented, most indisputable history humans have ever gathered. (This is why they're so constantly engaged in historical revisionism.)
So when proponents of the settler colonialism framework of accusation encounter these objections, what do they do?
They move the goalposts.
The absence of a metropole gets explained away as an "exception."
The indigenous origin of the Jewish people to the Levant gets ahistorically dismissed or ignored, despite the fact that the Jewish people are the only group whose national identity, language, and religion originated in and remained oriented toward that specific land throughout their entire existence.
The framework gets rewritten and the history is revised until Israel fits the allegation.
So, one word in Der Judenstaat doesn't settle* any of this.
From The Atlantic: The False Narrative of Settler Colonialism (paywall bypassed)
Okay, there's actually a lot of interesting history around this, so let's dig into it.
It's completely correct that the semiotics of "colony", "colonization", etc., have evolved over time, and that back in the late 19th Century when Herzl was writing the connotation was more neutral than it became in the 20th Century. (I also need to stress that that one "it is something colonial" quote-mine you see shared everywhere is from a letter that was never even sent, because Herzl realized it was a bad idea.)
But more to the point: the old guard Zionists were fully aware of accusations they were European colonizers - and they actively refuted those claims.
â Jews and Muslims in the Arab World: Haunted by Pasts Real and Imagined (Jacob Lassner, Ilan S. Troen, 2007)
â Hebrew Repatriation to Eretz Yisrael (Samuel Kruglikoff, 1930)
â Eliahu Eliachar, Testimony to UNSCOP (United Nations Special Committee on Palestine) Regarding Jews in Arab Countries (1947)
â Ber Borochov, Poalei Tziyon Peace Manifesto (1917)
â David Ben-Gurion, Statement to the Elected Assembly of Palestine Jewry (1947)
Zionists wrote copious volumes about the indigeneity of Judeans to Eretz Yisrael, and denying accusations that they were merely pawns of an imperialist agenda (initially it was claimed they were Russian agents, and then later British colonists) or seeking to conquer or to exploit the land or its people. Contrary to the popular claim that Zionists thought (or promoted the concept) the land was uninhabited, a very substantial amount was written about the Palestinians (particularly from the perspective of class analysis), and how the return and liberation of Judeans must go hand-in-hand with class solidarity and the liberation of Arab workers. In other words: the exact opposite of colonialism. What we today would call decolonization - and specifically decolonization via proletarian revolution.
The simplistic quote-mining about "colonization" used today is a hundred years outdated: all such arguments were debunked before the state was even founded.
I say the same things to the Saudi backed Islamists, they just arenât on Tumblr and instead infest YouTube comments. The people who want to kill Jews are going to try and do so no matter what.
The real battle is fighting everyoneâs apathy to the pogrom. Which is hard to do when everyone, including a not insignificant portion of Jews, keep saying how important a personal theocratic ethnostate existing is to them.
Also youâre literally painting the DSA with a broad brush in your straw man post.
Once again, you are proving my point, because my original post was an exchange I, personally, had. How was I painting the DSA with any brush? Did I say the local Democrat was DSA or that this was an official DSA position? Did you assume the defensive progressive was DSA? Why are you repeating verbatim what the defensive progressive said? That is not a strawman, that is you.
Anyway, when progressives take antisemitic libels ancient and modern and merely substitute âZionistâ for âJewâ, thatâs still antisemitic, since Israel is the only country in the world that is majority-Jewish, with the only cities in the world that are majority-Jewish. Of course itâs associated with Jews.
Israel is also home to half the worldâs Jewish population, so there is good reason that the safety of Israelis and the preservation of Jewish self-determination there (AKA Zionism) is a priority for 90% of Jews worldwide. You should ask yourself why you think itâs reasonable to strip from a globally persecuted minority the sovereignty that is the sole representation of their right to self-defense. You should also ask yourself why you think itâs reasonable for a pogrom to be perpetrated against Jews in diaspora for caring about their family in the Eastern Hemisphere. Youâll find the answer is internalized antisemitism.
Anyway, Saudi Arabia hasnât been promoting Islamism for years. Theyâve reformed significantly under Prince Mohammed Bin Salman. He was curbed the power of Wahhabi clerics and granted women unprecedented (if still unequal) rights. Right now, the principal patrons of the Muslim Brotherhood are Qatar and Turkey. Get with the times.
If you keep associating Judaism with a theocratic ethnostate, that is actively making life worse for everyone, people are going to care less when violent crime is committed against Jews. Also even if I was anti-Semitic it wouldnât matter because the core argument would still hold. That associating Israel with Judaism has only increased secular apathy towards hate crimes.
Anyway I hope your people find better orators if youâre going to keeping going down this path. Because guilt only works on people who care and less and less people do everyday, and the current rhetorical strategies donât inspire much guilt but instead just kind of radicalize people the opposite way.
In short this isnât a moral judgement itâs a strategic analysis and you have failed to convince me the Zionist strategy will result in anything but ruin.
Yes because the problem is that they want to be a theocratic ethnostate. I donât like pointing this out because it makes it easier for people to make the âJews are inherently evilâ argument when the reality is that Israelites have been groomed to be hyper aggressive to fulfill the ambitions by external forces like the Evangelical church and various capital owners.
The reason those Middle East countries are mostly Arab is because rational people donât move to the Middle East. You donât move there if youâre not desperate, irrational, or running from something. If the people who founded Israel wanted to make a safe haven for Jews they would have done so on a bunch of unpopulated islands. But they didnât want that they wanted a âwhiteâ ethnic group that would cooperate with their interests to conquer the Middle East.
Not the Middle East - the entire planet. I know and wholeheartedly support them in this.
This is Nuclear Strategy 101 and all nuclear-armed states have the same thing. It is only noticed for Israel because it harshes the buzz of traditional beloved Jew-killling fantasies. When your sense of social normalcy relies on Jews being gone, it sure feels like an affront that they might dare to take you down with them. I hope this seriously bothers you. I hope you lose sleep over it, because you just can't stop death-wishing Jews and now have to imagine some potential consequence of it.
BTW thank you for not attempting to deny your anti-Arab racism.
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Really loving this whitewashing of the Free Palestine activists who were in the streets celebrating on 10/8. Everyone remembers how y'all were cheering when Israeli men, women, and children were being raped and burned alive, when Thai farm workers were getting the heads chopped off with shovels, when African students were getting their heads plugged with bullets.
You were all out and proud and cheering on 10/8. You were saying "This is what decolonization looks like." Where's that pride now? Why are you suddenly getting shy when your posts and videos are being played back to you?
Who'd you think will be better for Israel - Trump and his old-fashioned and harmless antisemites, or Clinton and her new and hungry and militant SJWs antisemites?
Forget the followers and look at the actual candidates. CLINTON will be a maintainance of bipartisan U.S. norms towards Israel (for better and for worse) by someone who actually understands the key players in the region and who knows how to do the homework. Sheâd probably be less antagonistic towards the Israeli govt than Obama has been (which I chalk up to Obama and Netanyahu personally disliking each other and Obama being too proud to delegate the relationship to underlings, as was done to save the U.S. / France relationship from similar personal snarling between Bush and Chirac). The worst thing we can expect from Clinton is more exposure on the DC cocktail party circuit for Max Blumenthal. Unless she starts a nuclear war over a no-fly-zone in Syria. TRUMP represents radical, destabilizing change, by someone who doesnât really get the issues or the major players and has never shown much skill at learning stuff. On the one hand, he very well might tell the Palestinians to fuck off until they rise up and overthrow Hamas, and he very well might actually move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem. He also very well might be so easily baited and taunted by a hundred other crises that he misses something vital to Israel. He also very well might decide one random Tuesday that he hates the Jews now because why not? If Jared Kushner divorces Ivanka, maybe her daddy would take it out on the rest of us. He also definitely would be an international humiliation to Israel. I donât WANT us to get support from a guy who forcibly gropes women and mocks the disabled. If there are any Jews out there who think they can support a conspiracy-minded hyper aggressive racist because heâll only be mean to other people and will leave us aloneâŚ. well, as Chris Rock noted, âthat train is never late.â This is an election between Order and Chaos. Virtue didnât make it to the finals.
so I was right about this and also how Bibi would turn out to be just trolling the world with fake annexation plans, whereâs my thinktank gig already dammit
Since I was right in all of those predictions, here is what I am anticipating now:
Biden and the U.N. symbolically establishing some punishment or limitation for Israel before Trumpâs inauguration, just like Obama and John Kerry did at the U.N. last time. Perhaps a call for establishing a Palestinian state by a date certain, or even recognizing one in advance.
Trump reversing this.
Trumpâs close embrace of Israel / Netanyahu continuing to be used to shoehorn American Jews out of their natural home in Democratic / progressive coalitions, and justifying hatred, exclusion, and violence against us. Perhaps a mass casualty attack.
A much more aggressive stance against Iran, perhaps reaching the level of striking their nuclear sites.
The more aggressive stance against Iran not being worth the overall weakening of all worthwhile American institutions, moral credibility, expertise, continued leftwashing of antisemitism, and making Israel even more of a lopsided partisan issue.
Have you noticed how, both in Lost Cause and Nakba narrative, there is almost an attempt to role swap the racist elements?
Lost Cause idealizes the treatment of slaves, while portraying the North as the racists and aggressors. Like the movie Gods and Generals, where all black characters are happily supporting the Confederacy and their masters, while Northerners are the ones using racial slurs.
While Nakba removes Husseini, SS Handschar and various other Nazi sympathizing elements, so they can instead portray "Zionists" as being pro-Nazi through the use of some Herzl quotes, misinterpreting the Haavara agreement or doing the good ol' "Zionists helped in the Holocaust" conspiracy (hello Brezhnev).
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The plaintiff, who filed his lawsuit under a pseudonym, claimed that he needs to remain anonymous because it puts his career and life in dan
âPlaintiff may have already survived an assassination attempt by Jewish agents. Through a series of unlikely events, seemingly contrived by apparently conspiring Jews, Plaintiff was enticed by an attractive, busty Jewess and wet his mouth with a drink of partially unknown provenance. Hours later, Plaintiff experienced overwhelming fatigue and âtwilight consciousnessâ for hours â an event never experienced by Plaintiff prior or since. Plaintiff suspects he was poisoned by Jews,â he wrote.
None of this convinced McAuliffe or the other judges.
Sorry team, I know i let everyone down. My busty self didn't use enough poison /j
That aside bro is literally using Hitler logic. He got denied entry to a school and is blaming jews for it.