I like bugs

And, I mean, I love your energy, person who asked, definitely hold on to those values and speak up about this. But also, I am afraid I might have some bad news for you about literally the whole entire animation industry.

As near as I can make out from the sparse journalistic reporting that's been done on SpindleHorse -- and as a sidebar, please for the love of god read actual reporting about these things and not just callout posts and fandom discourse -- as near as I can make out, SpindleHorse as a studio is neither all that much better nor all that much worse than basically anywhere else in the industry on their level. It seems like it is (or was? Hazbin Hotel seems to be run differently) a studio mostly run by contracting people on a project-by-project basis, which leads to a crapton of turnover, and a huge need for organizing and onboarding, which according to the reporting I have read, the producers and freelancers have struggled to balance and manage properly, which has negatively impacted a number of the workers.

Top that with the usual catty, clique-based backbiting, sniping and poorly managed conflict resolution that's just kinda endemic in creative environments mostly staffed by twentysomethings and stressed out freelancers, and you have the recipe for a workplace where a lot of people are going to have a great time and feel creatively fulfilled, and a lot of people are going to come away feeling justifiably burnt the fuck out and exploited.

All of this is... not especially unusual for the animation industry, or indeed for any creative industry. Which is not to say that it is good, or that it should be allowed to be normal, or that it shouldn't be reported on and criticized (and please for the love of god support unionization efforts because that's the only thing that will actually address these kinds of systemic problems). It's just to say that if those kinds of issues are the line in the sand you draw where you refuse to engage with a studio's output...

Then, for starters, say goodbye to basically all of anime, because the Japanese animation industry is actively in a state of crisis trying to recruit new talent because its working conditions and pay are so astonishingly abysmal. And the horror stories that escape from that industry make the issues at SpindleHorse look like summer camp at times.

But you also have to say goodbye to a lot of American and European animation. Please do not imagine that Disney and its subcontractors, or that Nickelodeon or Warner Bros, are benevolent employers. They exploit their staff brutally and are currently trying to crush the labor value of animation with threats of generative AI being used to replace jobs. But those corporations also have extremely well-funded PR departments and the ability to silence employees with NDAs and threats of blackballing, so you don't get to hear as many of the horror stories as you might from a smaller independent studio that's less able to silence criticism by holding people's careers hostage.

All of this is to say that 1) it's valid and important to have criticism of both large and small-scale animation studios, and to keep the well-being and happiness of the workers higher in your priorities than the output of Products™.

And 2) if you're going to have a principle for what kinds of problems make a studio's output morally untouchable for you, and what kinds of problems you think should make a studio's output untouchable to other people, you do need to apply that principle consistently to the entire industry, and not just to the independent animation studio that happens to be surrounded by the internet's most inflammatory fandom discourse.

If you don't apply that principle consistently, maybe don't send reproachful messages to strangers scolding them for not living up to your standards, and even if you do apply that principle consistently, maybe still don't do that, because it's mostly quite annoying, and doesn't really do anything to support animation workers struggling for better working conditions.

Spindlehorse was the studio that started the indie animation boom of recent years. They had the option to go against the standards of the industry and not exploit their workers, to make a difference, and they decided that exploitation was an ok sacrifice for a cartoon.

This isn't Disney, Spindlehorse is not an old studio with more money then God that needed to immediately make 1,000% value for the shareholders. Spindlehorse isn't even an especially big studio, there is a pretty direct line of communication from Vivziepop (the CEO) to the animators. Even if you want to argue that it's no longer in Vivziepop's hands because of Amazon, she very much did have the choice for several years not to exploit her animators.

Just, to lay it out, here is all the evidence regarding Jax's gender (in any direction). I'll be using he/him pronouns when referring to Jax generally since those are his current canon pronouns.

-Jax doesn't like getting close with people.

-Jax responded extremely negatively to being put in a maid dress

-Jax's room is girly looking, with lots of pink/purple (unclear in the lighting) and shooting stars with rainbows.

-Jax's hell scene involves his outer rabbit-skin being peeled and revealing a yellow, mannequin-like creature underneath.

-Jax generally seems to avoid introspection.

-In 2024, Gooseworx posted a bunch of drawings with one featuring Jax holding a bottle of Progesterone and saying "I read somewhere that taking progesterone makes you better at gambling".

With that in mind,

If Jax is a cisgender man:

-Jax's identity issues are self-worth based, existing even before he entered the circus. He hurts other people to avoid confronting the fact that he's not a very good person. Entering the circus and having his body replaced with that of a cartoon bunny made his issues worse. He has a strong need for control.

-Jax is heavily disassociating. He doesn't want to confront that his actions are actually hurting people, and that the people who've abstracted are actually gone.

-In episode 5, Jax is already on the back foot with the vegan thing. He's losing control, and being forced into a maid dress with the express purpose of humiliating him is shoving that in his face even harder.

-The rooms are based on their character appearances, not what they want/are insecure about. That, or Jax has toxic masculinity issues and it's an expression of his fears of embarassment.

-The skin peeling is a metaphor for what he thinks will happen if he loses control. As @curoopeez pointed out, without his rabbit skin, he loses his smile. He can no longer hide his insecurities with humor, he is forced to be sincere and risk being laughed at for it.

-These are other drawings on the same canvas as the progesterone one.

These seem flanderizing to the point of being out of character. I don't think these were intended to be canon.

I think everything I said above could be or is still true, even if Jax is trans. I think him being trans just adds to those feelings, not replaces them.

If Jax is a trans man:

-The maid dress thing is dysphoria.

-The room is his gender insecurities.

-The skin peeling is him being forced to expose himself as trans and risk being seen as lesser for it.

If Jax is a trans woman:

-The maid dress forced Jax to express something she wants, but is afraid to confront, in front of people who hate her.

-Jax wants to be more feminine, but is afraid to be. The skin peeling is her being forced to expose what she wants and risk being judged.

-The drawing is canon, or at least based on future canon information.

Edit: Also here's Jamie indicating she means the current design and not like. An adult-version of her. Here is a link to the reply.

Vocal synths aren't characters, they're mascots and instruments. Their ages and lore are entirely irrelevant outside of marketing, they're intended to be modified to fit the context. Hatsune Miku being a concerned friend in one song and a violent cannibal in another isn't a contradiction, it's the point.

As for her appearance, she's a generic 2000s era anime girl with small tits. Nothing about her is especially childlike in that context, especially when compared to canonical 31-year-old Teto. The thing Jamie points out as attractive is entirely a meta context and one she can probably personally relate to.

Also, you literally show her retweeting (or whatever the bsky equivalent is) a depiction of the character with the mentioned large tits, so mayyybe there's some evidence that she's not strictly looking at the official artwork?

Momone Momo is a Utau, and is explicitly a character with songs and lore about her as a character. Her character design is attached to more than just her being a vocal synth, she is much more of a fictional character than Miku or even Teto. And, as a character, she is a robot designed to look like a school-aged girl. I would agree with you on the "she likes older fanart of her" if she didn't respond to a post of the official artwork about her big boobs with "god I wish".

"This is seriously like complaining that Sonic porn is pedophilia" for one, weird. Completely different situation. For two, how about Cream? Do you object to that with Cream? The very clearly more strongly child-coded character in Sonic?

The thing Jamie brings up as attractive (beyond her appearance, which "robo-maid girl" is an extremely common fetish) is the meta context that she's defined by a cover, Nyan Cat. Something which has nothing to do with her lore. You are heavily implying that Jamie is a pedophile because she finds the idea of a robo-maid girl vocal synth who's identity is defined by imitation, something which she directly compares to her experiences as a transfem, attractive.

I am not implying Jamie is a pedophile. I am saying she likes adult artwork of a child character, who she knows now is a child. If you interpret that as being a pedophile, whatever. Good for you. I don't think that makes her a pedophile, but I do think that makes her fucking weird as hell.

Also you have done surface level research about people who have used the synth, not about her original songs, which was what I was talking about. Go to her wiki. See the parts where it explains her lore and shit? (Get a translator, it isn't hard) Where she has family members and lore and is, again, designed to look like a specific girl who goes to school?

You would know if you didn't go to youtube and type "momone songs" like a lazy nitwit that she has original songs exclusive to japanese fans, on nicovideo. Like this one. Or this one.

You're saying she's attracted to a fictional child. Unless your issue is the innocence of the fictional character and not the sexualization of minors for being minors, you're calling her a pedophile.

And? The existence of original songs doesn't make her not a vocal synth. I point out that she was used as backing vocals in songs that have nothing to do with her lore to say that she's used like any other vocal synth, as a backup instrument. She does have more lore then most synths, but that doesn't make it any more important then Teto being able to extend DVD rentals. It can and usually is ignored because it's inconvienent to have to follow a lore bible for an instrument. If someone makes a song using her lore, it's because they liked her lore and wanted to make a song, not because it's a requirement to engage with her.

You can't argue "JamieP is attracted to her because she's a robot maid character imitating another one" and then argue "but she's an instrument". You have clarified that Jamie likes the character, for the qualities the character has. This is the character.

Edit: Also here's Jamie indicating she means the current design and not like. An adult-version of her. Here is a link to the reply.

Vocal synths aren't characters, they're mascots and instruments. Their ages and lore are entirely irrelevant outside of marketing, they're intended to be modified to fit the context. Hatsune Miku being a concerned friend in one song and a violent cannibal in another isn't a contradiction, it's the point.

As for her appearance, she's a generic 2000s era anime girl with small tits. Nothing about her is especially childlike in that context, especially when compared to canonical 31-year-old Teto. The thing Jamie points out as attractive is entirely a meta context and one she can probably personally relate to.

Also, you literally show her retweeting (or whatever the bsky equivalent is) a depiction of the character with the mentioned large tits, so mayyybe there's some evidence that she's not strictly looking at the official artwork?

Momone Momo is a Utau, and is explicitly a character with songs and lore about her as a character. Her character design is attached to more than just her being a vocal synth, she is much more of a fictional character than Miku or even Teto. And, as a character, she is a robot designed to look like a school-aged girl. I would agree with you on the "she likes older fanart of her" if she didn't respond to a post of the official artwork about her big boobs with "god I wish".

"This is seriously like complaining that Sonic porn is pedophilia" for one, weird. Completely different situation. For two, how about Cream? Do you object to that with Cream? The very clearly more strongly child-coded character in Sonic?

The thing Jamie brings up as attractive (beyond her appearance, which "robo-maid girl" is an extremely common fetish) is the meta context that she's defined by a cover, Nyan Cat. Something which has nothing to do with her lore. You are heavily implying that Jamie is a pedophile because she finds the idea of a robo-maid girl vocal synth who's identity is defined by imitation, something which she directly compares to her experiences as a transfem, attractive.

I am not implying Jamie is a pedophile. I am saying she likes adult artwork of a child character, who she knows now is a child. If you interpret that as being a pedophile, whatever. Good for you. I don't think that makes her a pedophile, but I do think that makes her fucking weird as hell.

Also you have done surface level research about people who have used the synth, not about her original songs, which was what I was talking about. Go to her wiki. See the parts where it explains her lore and shit? (Get a translator, it isn't hard) Where she has family members and lore and is, again, designed to look like a specific girl who goes to school?

You would know if you didn't go to youtube and type "momone songs" like a lazy nitwit that she has original songs exclusive to japanese fans, on nicovideo. Like this one. Or this one.

You're saying she's attracted to a fictional child. Unless your issue is the innocence of the fictional character and not the sexualization of minors for being minors, you're calling her a pedophile.

And? The existence of original songs doesn't make her not a vocal synth. I point out that she was used as backing vocals in songs that have nothing to do with her lore to say that she's used like any other vocal synth, as a backup instrument. She does have more lore then most synths, but that doesn't make it any more important then Teto being able to extend DVD rentals. It can and usually is ignored because it's inconvienent to have to follow a lore bible for an instrument. If someone makes a song using her lore, it's because they liked her lore and wanted to make a song, not because it's a requirement to engage with her.

You can't argue "JamieP is attracted to her because she's a robot maid character imitating another one" and then argue "but she's an instrument". You have clarified that Jamie likes the character, for the qualities the character has. This is the character.

Edit: Also here's Jamie indicating she means the current design and not like. An adult-version of her. Here is a link to the reply.

Vocal synths aren't characters, they're mascots and instruments. Their ages and lore are entirely irrelevant outside of marketing, they're intended to be modified to fit the context. Hatsune Miku being a concerned friend in one song and a violent cannibal in another isn't a contradiction, it's the point.

As for her appearance, she's a generic 2000s era anime girl with small tits. Nothing about her is especially childlike in that context, especially when compared to canonical 31-year-old Teto. The thing Jamie points out as attractive is entirely a meta context and one she can probably personally relate to.

Also, you literally show her retweeting (or whatever the bsky equivalent is) a depiction of the character with the mentioned large tits, so mayyybe there's some evidence that she's not strictly looking at the official artwork?

Momone Momo is a Utau, and is explicitly a character with songs and lore about her as a character. Her character design is attached to more than just her being a vocal synth, she is much more of a fictional character than Miku or even Teto. And, as a character, she is a robot designed to look like a school-aged girl. I would agree with you on the "she likes older fanart of her" if she didn't respond to a post of the official artwork about her big boobs with "god I wish".

"This is seriously like complaining that Sonic porn is pedophilia" for one, weird. Completely different situation. For two, how about Cream? Do you object to that with Cream? The very clearly more strongly child-coded character in Sonic?

The thing Jamie brings up as attractive (beyond her appearance, which "robo-maid girl" is an extremely common fetish) is the meta context that she's defined by a cover, Nyan Cat. Something which has nothing to do with her lore. You are heavily implying that Jamie is a pedophile because she finds the idea of a robo-maid girl vocal synth who's identity is defined by imitation, something which she directly compares to her experiences as a transfem, attractive.

I am not implying Jamie is a pedophile. I am saying she likes adult artwork of a child character, who she knows now is a child. If you interpret that as being a pedophile, whatever. Good for you. I don't think that makes her a pedophile, but I do think that makes her fucking weird as hell.

Also you have done surface level research about people who have used the synth, not about her original songs, which was what I was talking about. Go to her wiki. See the parts where it explains her lore and shit? (Get a translator, it isn't hard) Where she has family members and lore and is, again, designed to look like a specific girl who goes to school?

You would know if you didn't go to youtube and type "momone songs" like a lazy nitwit that she has original songs exclusive to japanese fans, on nicovideo. Like this one. Or this one.

You're saying she's attracted to a fictional child. Unless your issue is the innocence of the fictional character and not the sexualization of minors for being minors, you're calling her a pedophile.

And? The existence of original songs doesn't make her not a vocal synth. I point out that she was used as backing vocals in songs that have nothing to do with her lore to say that she's used like any other vocal synth, as a backup instrument. She does have more lore then most synths, but that doesn't make it any more important then Teto being able to extend DVD rentals. It can and usually is ignored because it's inconvienent to have to follow a lore bible for an instrument. If someone makes a song using her lore, it's because they liked her lore and wanted to make a song, not because it's a requirement to engage with her.

Edit: Also here's Jamie indicating she means the current design and not like. An adult-version of her. Here is a link to the reply.

Vocal synths aren't characters, they're mascots and instruments. Their ages and lore are entirely irrelevant outside of marketing, they're intended to be modified to fit the context. Hatsune Miku being a concerned friend in one song and a violent cannibal in another isn't a contradiction, it's the point.

As for her appearance, she's a generic 2000s era anime girl with small tits. Nothing about her is especially childlike in that context, especially when compared to canonical 31-year-old Teto. The thing Jamie points out as attractive is entirely a meta context and one she can probably personally relate to.

Also, you literally show her retweeting (or whatever the bsky equivalent is) a depiction of the character with the mentioned large tits, so mayyybe there's some evidence that she's not strictly looking at the official artwork?

Momone Momo is a Utau, and is explicitly a character with songs and lore about her as a character. Her character design is attached to more than just her being a vocal synth, she is much more of a fictional character than Miku or even Teto. And, as a character, she is a robot designed to look like a school-aged girl. I would agree with you on the "she likes older fanart of her" if she didn't respond to a post of the official artwork about her big boobs with "god I wish".

"This is seriously like complaining that Sonic porn is pedophilia" for one, weird. Completely different situation. For two, how about Cream? Do you object to that with Cream? The very clearly more strongly child-coded character in Sonic?

The thing Jamie brings up as attractive (beyond her appearance, which "robo-maid girl" is an extremely common fetish) is the meta context that she's defined by a cover, Nyan Cat. Something which has nothing to do with her lore. You are heavily implying that Jamie is a pedophile because she finds the idea of a robo-maid girl vocal synth who's identity is defined by imitation, something which she directly compares to her experiences as a transfem, attractive.