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Listen, I really like Lukas Kyle in the book, but seeing him princess carry Juliette in the show and reiterate that she’s okay and her saying his name in a coarse whisper!!!!
They whitewashed the male characters at the expense of female characters. Elia is suddenly a politically shrewd woman who only cares about keeping Dorne in power, but is fine with Rhaegar's affair? As if that wouldn't put her marriage and her children's legitimacy, already half Dornish, at stake? Lyanna is even more prophecy-crazed than Rhaegar. Rhaegar is picking flowers for Lyanna at the Tower of Joy while his wife is chained up in KL. Rhaegar does not care about Rhaenys and Aegon, they're mentioned once or twice at most. Robert is written extremely kindly, with a lot of PTSD from his parents' deaths and even with an intriguing dynamic with Aerys. Rhaegar is absolved of all of his sins because Elia is seen to be "bringing" her fate upon herself. They were also extremely orientalist about all the Dornish characters; suddenly, Elia is into Ashara, and Ashara is into Elia and Brandon. They talk of having multiple lovers. Daenerys had mad queen foreshadowing. Aerys and Rhaegar even had a competition to see who could have tptwp first, and there's this whole sex scene of them with their partners under a red comit at the same time.
It was all BS. It was confirmed just a day later that at most, the play was semi-canon, and that too if GRRM ever confirms anything himself. Only the books are canon
And yes, Lyanna's age is never brought up, no one sees her as a child being taken advantage of, and the play is very on the nose of pushing her "romance" to be completely consenting on her part.
I personally get allowing Robert grief over his parents. So I don’t actually mind that part all that much.
But I do think people are coming at this so harshly when it needs to be treated more like HotD and the later seasons of GoT.
Martin DID NOT write this play. He was consulted on it and there are already things going on in this play that go against established BOOK canon. The play is as canon to the books as the shows are and are clearly taking liberties. And I have no doubt the show will continue to go through writing changes when it begins to transfer to other stages.
Who should Celia Lannister be paired with in AMYFF? (Snippets and gif samples below the cut)
Criston Cole
Baelor (Son or Daemon and Rhea Royce)
Harwin Strong
Remaining time: 2 days 5 hours
Snippets and gifs below!
1. Celia Lannister x Criston Cole
He would never be allowed within the hallowed ranks of the Kingsguard. He had rejected the offer of lover by the Princess and he had killed the beloved companion of her new husband in a tourney. It was the Queen that had spoken on his behalf—saved his life—and it was only right that he return the favor by helping a lady whose place in life had been swallowed by shame. It was only right that he marry the Queen and Princess’ companion so that she might have some symblance of protection, she and her bastard child.
She curtsied to him deeply when he placed quickly made cloak for House Cole upon her shoulders. Her golden hair hidden beneath the scarlet of his house’s sigil. She stood, green eyes meeting his briefly before casting her gaze down again. The queen was holding Criston’s new stepdaughter, but once the vows were exchanged, Criston’s wife took her daughter into her arms. She kissed the girl’s pale golden hair, slight tears in her eyes.
“Do you hope that he might come for you?” he asked her when they were taken to the rooms the queen had set aside for them. Better than the rooms Criston was used to, but perhaps not as grand as she was. “The girl’s father.”
“I have no hopes for such things,” she replied, sitting on the bed and holding her daughter close. “It was a dream, but I know better that dreams are things we always wake from. And sometimes we realize it was a nightmare in truth.”
He thought for a moment, of his attempts to try and quantify the feelings he had for the Princess. The love and hate, loyalty and fear he held for her. With one word, he could be killed as King Jaehaerys killed the lovers of his own daughters. Her new husband could kill him in a tourney for retribution as well. Perhaps that is why the Queen had him marry Lady Celia, who the Princess still cared for. He was her protection against scandal, even if everyone could see Alyssa Waters was not his.
A Cole was better than a Waters. He could offer her that, at least. It was most likely that Lady Celia had been taken advantage of. He knew the lady well, even at a distance, that she was a girl who liked pretty songs and tourneys. She had believed equally in the chivalry and nonsense of songs—untouched by true conflict, but true war. But that illusion had been shattered, it seems, when the father of her babe did not come forward throughout her humiliation.
He might find redemption in her and bring a father to her child. Of upholding some form of the vows he had promised when he first became a knight. Criston took a breath and knelt at his wife’s feet.
“I shall not ask for consummation of our vows,” he told her. He looked up at his wife, her daughter in her arms, the cloak of his house wrapped around them. “I will not touch you as a husband is right to, but I will be her father if you let me. I will shield your backs and keep your counsel and give my life for you both if need be. I swear it by the old gods and the new.”
Her lip began to tremble, tears forming in her eyes and then sliding down her cheeks. “And I vow that you shall always have a place by my hearth, and meat and mead at my table. And I pledge to ask no service of you that might bring you dishonor,” she answered.
He offered her his hand and she placed her own in his. He kissed her knuckles carefully.
2. Celia Lannister x Baelor Targaryen
He could not be certain it was his father that had sullied Lady Celia. He could not be certain that it was his father who had sired her child. He could only suppose because there was a look in her eyes that reminded him of his late mother. There was something about the sad loneliness he had seen in his cousin as well. Someone who knew what it was to be betrayed by Daemon Targaryen. Someone who knew what hollow promises he could make. He had known such murmurs himself. But he was a man now, in many respects, and he would not allow one who shares his blood to go through the same form of abandonment.
So, when his uncle had asked who it was that would be responsible for the lady, when her parents had cast her out and demanded recompense for their daughter’s sullied honor, Baelor had stepped forward. When their vows had been exchanged, when he swore to claim the child as his own, he asked her for the truth. He was not surprised when she gave him none.
He looked down at the girl he claimed was his and he was all the more certain this was his little sister. A Targaryen in name, but not recognition. His new wife had looked at him nervously. It could be viewed a sin, by most, for a son to lay claim to a woman his father had bedded. It would be a sin to take to bed a girl his father had. He was fairly certain there was some such rule—but when had Targaryens ever cared for rules.
“I do not like my father,” he told her. She glanced at him nervously. “He has never once cared for me and, though the king will do nothing for it, I am fairly certain my mother’s blood is on his hands.” He looked to his wife. “My father will not be welcome to my table. He will not be welcome in my rooms or my home on Runestone. I can do nothing about his presence in this keep should my uncle rescind his banishment. But he will not be allowed here. He will not be allowed near her, if it is your wish.”
“The septons say we must love our fathers,” she said softly.
“I believe the septons should put more emphasis on parents loving their children,” he said. “Parents have no right to demand devotion when they would as soon cast us aside when we have disappointed them.” He looked down at the girl in her cradle. “I shall not abandon you or her,” he said. “And whatever cause my father takes up, I shall not rise to it. My priority is to me and mine.”
“It is not good to swear things when you know not the storms ahead,” she said quietly. “I will hold you to no promises. Not when conflict brews in your house.”
“Our house now,” he replied. “But my mind shall not be changed. Whatever side my father finds himself, I shall set myself in opposition. I will not let him touch our lives. I will allow him and his to bring harm to us.”
The look in her eyes told him she understood his meaning, that he understood the truth for which she would no doubt go to the grave with.
“She is my blood,” he told her. “And I shall see her grown and happy. I shall see you, one day, the same.”
3. Celia Lannister x Harwin Strong
Lady Celia was a pretty thing, but delicate. There was no spark within her that might have caught Harwin’s eye. But Rhaenyra bid him marry, protect her friend from ruin, but also make it so people might not wonder at their own closeness. He had spoken honestly about his inability to love Lady Celia.
She had looked up at him, almost surprised that he had spoken bluntly. “I ask not for love, but protection, Ser,” she had replied. “My daughter is my priority. I care not what you do, but care only for the protection your cloak might offer my daughter.”
It was then that Harwin understood why it was Lady Celia that Rhaenyra had picked out for him. She held not belief in the vows of men, nor in their promises to her. To Lady Celia, her priority was her daughter and her duties to both the Princess and Queen. Divisions were being made and Rhaenyra hoped that if it was a man in her household that offered Lady Celia protections, it would to her that House Lannister threw in their allegiances.
“Promise only that you will not bring shame that might put my child in danger and I shall not hold you to your vows, Ser. I shall give you heirs as you see fit, but I will not ask for your love, nor your devotion. I am but a body for which men see fit to use. I only ask that you do so kindly.”
There was no spark within her as there was in Rhaenyra. No. Gods and men and put that out long ago.
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I'm on twitter and everyone fucking hates the play except hardcore rhaelyas skskskkk that shit is nottt canon
Even then, I don’t think it’s as romantic as people seem to want to make it, especially if you want to make it closer to book canon, Lyanna’s still fourteen when when twenty-two year old Rhaegar decides to crown her for love, seemingly around the time his wife almost dies in childbirth and is told he can’t have another kid with her.
Not gonna lie, Elizabeth Taylor would make a good faceclaim for Valaena Velaryon in AWME, but I could also see her as Aemma Arryn with more Arryn coloring.
I keep seeing the spoilers about Lyanna and Rhaegar too and like. Part of me is unsurprised that it’s probably going to be absolutely disappointing and disastrous. But at the same time I’m screeching internally. Because I agree with what you posted thus far about the ages, but people always conveniently forget ages of girls versus boys. In real life and in fiction.
And also…I feel like (and this might sound terrible) it might be relieving in some ways to find reasons to honestly hate Lyanna Stark in this play. To separate her from Sansa and Arya in some ways.
It was therapeutic for me to hate show!Lyanna because I knew she was different from book!Lyanna, if that makes sense? So I feel like I’m probably going to wind up differentiating Play!Lyanna too if these spoilers keep turning out to be nauseating. For my own sanity.
The main thing to remember is that Martin said only the books are canon. He gave some insight for the people who actually wrote the play. There are probably kernels of truth there, but it’s not the full story.
I would wager the play falls somewhere between book and show canon, but not completely. I think the play covered a large amount of time in a short window on the stage and, therefore, couldn’t actually dig deep and flesh out some things. And, by virtue of some of the things that are apparently shown in the play, they were never going to focus on Lyanna’s age. It doesn’t matter if she views herself as a willing participant. She’s a child. She’s a child who is sixteen when she dies begging her big brother to not let her son get dragged down into the madness of a prophecy that killed her.
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Seeing some spoilers for The Mad King play, and I feel like the writer has forgotten that Lyanna is roughly 14-16 between Harrenhal and her death.
I’m seeing that apparently the play sort of exists outside book and show canon and is its own sort of canon. And Martin was consulted rather than directly serving as the writer.
Lot of thoughts. Not fully pleased. But intrigued. It will be interesting to hear full spoilers from multiple people and not from a person who seems to be getting their info second hand and so doesn’t seem the context from within the play.
I thought it was book canon that Rhaegar and Elia conceived Aegon, but apparently, in the play, it is when Jon and Dæny are conceived by their respective parents? Or is it implying that there is a second comet? Poor Rhaenys. Left out of her siblings being conceived through comets.
I feel like, based what I’m hearing, it makes it explicitly clear that being part of a prophecy and being driven to believe you are an integral part of it brings nothing but misery to you and those around you.
The Promise isn’t sweet. It is cold and lonely and bitter. Those driven by prophecy have all been led to ruin (in all the different canons of the ASOIAF sorry). The promise is putting off the issues of today onto tomorrow and onto someone else who will have to deal with the true fallout of these dreams and visions.
This play makes me even more certain that those who put their faith and belief in the prophecy and put it above being a good person and a good leader are going to fail.
People are dead. The fields of Westeros run red. People died because of a prophecy they know nothing about. Their names will not be remembered. Their names are not even known to us.
And now the world would forget his name too, Sansa realized; there would be no songs sung for him. That was sad. / After they carried off the body, a boy with a spade ran onto the field and shoveled dirt over the spot where he had fallen, to cover up the blood. Then the jousts resumed.— A Game of Thrones, Sansa II
They will be buried. The world will move on. But then more wars will be won. The game will continue on. And the people who begin this will be dead and everyone else is left to pick up the pieces to try to make sense of what can never be properly understood.
There are no winners in this game, no victors in this song, only survivors. Only survivors who can think of a world beyond the dawn—beyond the dream. For those who are willing to wake up.
Seeing some spoilers for The Mad King play, and I feel like the writer has forgotten that Lyanna is roughly 14-16 between Harrenhal and her death.
I’m seeing that apparently the play sort of exists outside book and show canon and is its own sort of canon. And Martin was consulted rather than directly serving as the writer.
Lot of thoughts. Not fully pleased. But intrigued. It will be interesting to hear full spoilers from multiple people and not from a person who seems to be getting their info second hand and so doesn’t seem the context from within the play.
I thought it was book canon that Rhaegar and Elia conceived Aegon, but apparently, in the play, it is when Jon and Dæny are conceived by their respective parents? Or is it implying that there is a second comet? Poor Rhaenys. Left out of her siblings being conceived through comets.
Seeing some spoilers for The Mad King play, and I feel like the writer has forgotten that Lyanna is roughly 14-16 between Harrenhal and her death.
I’m seeing that apparently the play sort of exists outside book and show canon and is its own sort of canon. And Martin was consulted rather than directly serving as the writer.
Lot of thoughts. Not fully pleased. But intrigued. It will be interesting to hear full spoilers from multiple people and not from a person who seems to be getting their info second hand and so doesn’t seem the context from within the play.
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amyff: why did celia choose to keep the baby? was it a choice made willingly or was it like a situation where she found out about the pregnancy some 3-4 months in and moon tea at that stage could be risky?
whom does she tells about the pregnancy first? rhaenyra or alicent since they are her closest friends, or tyland since he is her closest family in the capital?
if jason is lord lannister by this point how does he react? does he feel like this is a "dishonor" for house lannister, or is more uncaring, considering that celia is a distant cousin? what do her parents have to say? is she even allowed to ever go back to casterly rock?
if celia were from the main branch of house lannister, that is jason & tyland's sister, how would have things gone then?
does daemon even know alyssa is his? considering that alyssa does not have silver hair or violet eyes and the question of her sire is a mystery, is celia not pressurised by her family or maybe even rhanerya/alicent into revealing alyssa's father? who knows about daemon and who doesn't? rhaenyra and alicent finding out the father is daemon..... oh boy those would be some interesting reactions! (especially rhaenyra lol)
She realized she was pregnant too late. She has always had a very spotty period as she doesn’t have the best health and so moontea would have already been a horrible idea even if she had caught it early.
She confides in Alicent first as Rhaenyra is away on a short tour with Laenor around the Seven Kingdoms after their marriage. She probably would have preferred to tell both her friends at once, but I think she would have been frightened to tell Rhaenyra, because she knows Rhaenyra has a crush on Daemon.
Jason is not lord yet. I’ve made Celia his younger sister instead of cousin. Her brothers suggest not coming back to Casterly Rock for the time being. They hope their parents will mellow out in their anger. Her pregnancy is a big scandal and because Celia is under the protection of the king, regardless of who bedded her and got her with child, Viserys has to give the Lannisters some money because Celia’s honor has been besmirched.
Daemon guesses but he has no interest in Alyssa. People try to force her to give the name of the father, but Celia is not in a good mental space and is often near tears when pressed. She simply says he cannot give her honor back as he is married already.
I think Celia tried to co time serving both Alicent and Rhaenyra. But when Rhaenyra married Daemon, Celia no longer feels she can live on Dragonstone and it’s then that Rhaenyra realizes the truth.
I have three options for who Celia can marry because it could be drama all around.
In W&B does Viserys ever try anything with Alicent in the future? Or with Celia?
He shifts his focus to Celia. He wants Celia to marry Aegon so he can live vicariously through his son. He’s annoyed that Aegon doesn’t look more like him because it ruins the illusion.
Daemon and Alicent don’t like Viserys alone with Celia. Daemon doesn’t tell Alicent what Viserys’ comments were, but yeah. Viserys makes comments here and there.
He does make comments about maybe Alicent would have understood him more than Laena at times.
