Waiiit I wanna see what you heard back from rpf anon
people can DM if they want, i'd just feel a little weird sharing it so publically

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Waiiit I wanna see what you heard back from rpf anon
people can DM if they want, i'd just feel a little weird sharing it so publically

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i do feel like there’s maybe some space between “karina can do no wrong” and “a group of three white people were a firm established group that then later added a poc and then that poc left on bad terms without any of the fanfare a previous white person had left with and that is sus as fuck”
like yeah i’m sure that the seemingly ending on bad terms was not karina angelic crying in a corner while j&j&n threw work at her and hissed that she was cringe and then they all gave each other friendship bracelets and left her out. since we’re being hyperbolic. but lets also not pretend that this occurrence isnt part of a pattern that poc have been talking about since the dawn of racism
and let’s also be clear, i do not recall the rest of drawfee ever addressing the fact that karina was receiving a lot of racist hate. they never explicitly defended her from it in any main videos, if they ever did at all. & that rubbed me and a lot of other people the wrong way
racism is not some mystical bigotry that only the most extreme people of do, which is how a lot of white fans are treating it rn. racism is constantly perpetrated by your idols and best friends and role models, especially implicit racism, and i do not think j&j&n are magically immune to being raised in racist america to the point where it never effected the dynamic at all. whether it was severe even to be a main cause is the part where i have no clue, but thinking karina being the only poc much less woc should be ignored completely is belittling
there’s an elephant in the room and white supremacy relies on us acting like it’s more of a social faux pax to address it than ignore it, even in situations as whawha as a youtuber leaving a channel
very good points here. and now that you mention it actually its crazy they never defended her explicitly. im sure she gets a lot of flak for being a 'party pooper' for talking about it.
to be honest all the putting Karina on a pedestal is getting really aggravating, partly because it just seems like the kind of parasocial relationship she would dislike and partly because I think people are misrepresenting things.
Yes, Karina has done a lot of work for Drawfee but people are acting like she’s carried the company on her back when all of them have talked about experiencing burnout. Obviously the workload was higher while j&j were gone but Jacob has been fully back for 9 months and Julia has been back doing admin work for a while too, she just hasn’t been in episodes yet. Things that take extra work like variety hour or new merch are things that Karina has said she wanted to arrange/make so I feel like it’s unfair to act like the team is overworking her and not acknowledge the real possibility that she was pushing herself too hard.
I love Karina and will miss her a lot but I hate the idea of “taking sides” when neither party has given out any real information and they are all humans that are imperfect and not just comfort “friend sounds”
to be fair, i dont think she'd like any of the speculation here, so it feels a little moot.
i think it's probably more true that she took on more than she could handle than the rest of the team explicitly overworking her.
i do also agree that it probably wasn't a situation where one party was awful to the other (at least until more info comes out) but the team didnt help the optics of the situation by posting an announcement like that. someone get them a PR appointment!!
with the underpaid animated commission thing, im pretty sure the rest of drawfee were on her side. im pretty sure the eps with that person were unlisted or removed and during sss stream jnj pointedly avoided a video game interaction associated with them. even generally across streams the members have avoided mentioning them in any positive light or at all, so imo its kinda unlikely they'd end up doing something similar to karina as it came off as pretty much they condemned the other party...
this is true, but i think comparisons with how she might've handled things still stand
re: last anon i've seen a LOT of negative posts about karina and how her "nastiness" towards nathan/j&h caused the split and actually not much holding her to a pedestal. i'm not leaning either way personally, but i think the main reason why people have been assuming that she didn't do anything TERRIBLE is that they're still releasing all the videos that she's in. if they truly hated her i would think it'll be easier to just be a clean cut and not have to still split revenue from later videos etc
(in reference to this anon)
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i haven't seen much negativity toward her personally, (sans those two anons) but i might just not be in the right places.
i so agree that people are usually pretty fair when defending her IMO

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I think Karina was doing disproportionately more work compared to the other hosts while also not having a partner to help AND having already been vocal about being burnt out for a long time before that. Then there's the fact that despite having been formed from a true company before that they made the mistake a lot of content groups do of being too causal/acting like they're just a bunch of friends making content for fun when it is fully a company/business.
The causal attitude towards planning things/joking about subjects can probably get a lot more frustrating when it isn't your friend poking at something that kind of bothers you or messing up your plans by scheduling something last minute but your coworker. Like people have brought up the stream where Karina was verbally upset because she found out she wasn't right about when they were next recording, and consider how much more frustrating it is finding out that people are coming over to YOUR HOME on a different day than you had planned, and you can't just tell them no because it's work, and you can't properly be frustrated about it because your reaction is being live streamed on the internet and if you make too big a deal about it people will start posting more weird comments about you than they already do.
I'm not saying this to say the other hosts were evil towards her so much as you can accidentally end up causing a lot of problems for someone when you work with them that aren't going to be solved if you think of conflict resolution as, "we're friends we'll sort it out if it gets bad" rather than, "we better have a channel set up ahead of time to make sure we do this professionally" because if you don't have a professional way of dealing with it then naturally it's going to mean someone has to be a bad friend, which isn't fair when it comes to work grievances.
I think I'd be able to feel better about things if they came out and said hey this ended up being a work grievance and we're gonna move separate ways, but then again I guess we don't know if that's true, or if they'd be able to even admit if it was.
yeah. i guess i cant say for sure this was or wasn't the best way to go about things without knowing what actually happened, but i really wish they did it differently.
also, yeah, forming a company with friends is So risky and trying to do other big life things without the support of being in a much bigger company is scary. for a while i was scared j&j would be what imploded things lol
RPF anon, i wont post that in case the artist wouldnt appreciate the extra attention. but yes that'd be bonkers LOL
(EDIT: their rpf theory is that karina made a move and got shut down)
God I knew everything would change when J&J had the baby, tbh I thought it was crazy they had one with them being Internet personalities and stretched thin enough as it is
yeah. but all things must end eventually, i didn't really expect drawfee to last all that much longer anyway. hopefully they'll move to more sustainable things
I hate to bring up old drama, but if we're throwing out theories I think it's worth talking about what went down between karina and a certain voice actor (iykyk) a couple years ago: the tl;dr summarized from the post she made about it is that karina had been doing some work for this person for a while and wanted to do a music video animation for them. their team agreed but said they had almost no budget and offered karina just a fraction of what she had planned to offer as a discounted friend rate, and she accepted the awful rate without giving her own counter offer. she worked herself to the bone to get it done on time and was insanely stressed over it for months, and then when she completed it she requested that it not be credited to her since she felt weird about how she did it for such terrible pay (at this point it turned out the team had a slightly bigger budget than they seemed to let on initially and offered her more money, but she rejected it since she just wanted to be done with it all). the team insisted on using a pseudonym instead of giving no credit so that they could make it fit with the story of the music video, but they rejected the first pseudonym she submitted for it (it was a reference to "alan smithee," a pseudonym film directors used to use for projects they were dissatisfied with and wanted to disown) and told her they would just use their own pseudonym for her that would fit the story of the music video. she did not take kindly to having a credit made up for her without her input, and she snapped and told them off for exploiting her for a low rate. there was some tense back-and-forth and the team eventually said they would just release it with no credit or pseudonym at all, but then they never released the animation, presumably because of everything that went down, which devastated karina since ultimately all her hard work and effort was for nothing. (you can search her tumblr for the original post, it's worth a read if you really want the full picture) the point is, based on her own account, karina is the type of person who's willing to take on too much work for not enough pay for the sake of her friends while quietly building resentment over it. it sounds like she took over the lion's share of the work when jacob and julia were both gone, and even after jacob came back she still had a ton on her plate, especially since she's in charge of merch designs and got the most patreon commissions. with the whole situation surrounding julia's extended maternity leave, it's definitely possible karina felt like she was being overworked and under-valued (and idk how they handle paying all the team members but maybe she felt her work wasn't being properly compensated monetarily). it's also clear that karina takes a lot of pride in her work and doesn't react well to tons of hours of her passion and effort never seeing the light of day. this is super speculative and I don't think it's that likely, but maybe she poured her heart and soul into a project only for the rest of the team to decide to cancel it at the last minute for whatever reason (and I don't think that's a decision they would make lightly), and karina just snapped and said "fuck this" and left. it also seems like karina, bless her, may not be the most communicative person when she feels like she's being treated unfairly or exploited, at least when her friends are involved. I hate to say it, but even though she was clearly being seriously underpaid and overworked, the way she handled the commission job for the VA was not great (she even admits in the original post she made a lot of bad choices) and ~in my humble opinion~ she does not come off as professional or communicative in the account told from her own POV. basically I'm saying it's possible she didn't communicate her grievances clearly with the other team members until everything blew up in an unpleasant way.
one last thing: there have been a couple streams since jacob got back from paternity leave where the vibes were… really off. there was one stream around the end of last year/beginning of this year where karina went weirdly silent for like 10 minutes straight, and eventually jacob panicked over how the stream was going and said something like “I feel like I’m the only one carrying the conversation and other people aren’t contributing.” the team understandably didn’t post the VOD to youtube, and I think they made a comment the next stream about how karina was having a bad mental health day and that they decided it would be better not to post it. so something’s been brewing for a while. tbh I think if she has beef with anyone in particular it's probably jacob and not julia. people joke about "sibling energy" or whatever the fuck but I do think there's been genuine tension in some of their banter, especially lately disclaimer that I'm just throwing stuff out there, I don't know what actually happened, yadda yadda. but I'm disappointed with how the drawfee team has handled this (one brief very corporate text post to let fans know a host suddenly left? really? I'm sure they're mad but come on) and it sounds like karina should probably not be working with her friends in the future. imo.
this makes a lot of sense to me. and, personal observation/ speculation, but she always seemed the least into actually being a youtuber/ public figure of all of them. i can see all that combined leading to resentment.
don't have a ton to add here, you said it pretty succinctly. thank you for the submission anon!
I find it interesting that a lot of people are speculating that the drawfee team may have done something to karina to make her want to quit (i've seen things like potentially being racist or because theyre overworking her etc), but I haven't seen anyone speculate if karina may have done something to get kicked out. I'm not saying either is more likely than the other, but I think it's interesting that people are saying to not be parasocial while simultaneously putting karina on a pedestal that she can do no wrong. I hope this makes sense... i don't think any of them are bad people and my belief skews towards the split being business related; again I just think the speculation around this is interesting.
this is interesting, and it's something i find myself feeling as well. i guess a good chunk of it has to come from her doing so much of the drawfee work, for the past year especially. i think also, with how many fans are downright nasty to her, there's a desire to not be like them that sometimes leads to overcorrection

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im pretty sure karina is not only earning money from drawfee, as she's mentioned being too busy working on other stuff to put as much time into the speed draws for the last year-ish. iirc she has also talked about doing projects outside of drawfee. probably contributed to the burnout shes been talking about, doing the increased julia gone workload PLUS working on outside projects
honestly i remember like a year or so ago she mentioned getting screwed over with an animation job that ended up severely underpaying her, id get burnt out just from experiencing that ffs. what a major hit to motivation to be so blatantly underappreciated by someone who at the time she considered a friend. if that was compounded by j&j&n also underappreciating the huge uptick of work she started doing for drawfee while still balancing other shit, i think she has the right to explode them with her mind tbh
tldr karina's been crazy busy and im taking her side in the divorce
embarrassingly i was just looking at stuff about that animation job before i posted that, thanks for catching that.
i think resentment over her increased work &effort not being appreciated would make a lot of sense. also if this is true that has got to be Devastating to experience that same situation basically twice in a row.
and yeah i think if there was a situation where someone was wronged, i think it was almost certainly karina. im hopeful this wasnt the case but i'm not sure we'll ever know.
i wonder if sss announcing their own new summer camp merch right before all this (seemingly) went down had anything to do w/ it? like, julia being able to do merch and other work for sss but not her Main Job might have caused some tension? idk if it's anything i'm just thinking abt the timeline of merch releases this year.
pocketing this.... definitely something to think about & i'll prob come back to this later
My theory... I think Karina has been burned out for a while. And with how long this 'pause' has been. It's possible she just stopped working or stopped responding. It probably feels better to set a hard boundary and cut and run to try and heal the burnout. When you're in that state (from personal experience) it's difficult to think of any other options. What choice would the other three have? Keep sending 1/4 of their work to someone who isn't doing anything? Especially when two of them just had a baby and Nathan and his wife are trying to get an app startup off the ground. With the context of this, Karina starting to stream digimon, to me, feels like the start of her trying to show she is contributing in ways that are not back end work. That's why she streamed on drawfee and not a personal channel. She's contributing to the overall monetary effort. From the view counts the streams didn't end up doing very well.
Idk man. To me it seems to come down to burnout and inability to keep providing output, and the other three not being in a situation where they can support that long term.
there's probably an element of this, although again, even in this scenario i'd think they'd at least seem more amicable. and to give her some credit, she works herself crazy hard!! she organizes so much event stuff almost entirely on her own, AND does merch, AND hosts for recording/streams, on top of commissions and outside projects. it's crazy shes lasted this long, frankly.
She's definitely been struggling for a while though. i feel like this news didn't hit me as hard as some others because (at risk of giving myself too much credit) i realised a while ago she probably wouldn't stick w drawfee until the end.
(and i think the digimon streams were moreso because she didnt want to set up her own stream when she does it so infrequently AFAIK)
Personally i think its just a matter of not delivering on deadlines. Im sure burnout is partially to blame but like if you cant deliver at your job of course youre going to get fired or at least scrutinized. Karina has said for awhile that she waits till the last minute to finish pieces and i think having less passion plus likely more work with Julia being out was just too much for her.
I think the suddenness was likely because they tried to give her an ultimatum and renegotiated with her behind the scenes (resulting in no streams) that worked for maybe a little but not enough for her. and she quit with little to no notice. Would make sense then why it looks civil but still with some awkwardness, like no one wants an ultimatum but no one also wants someone to just up and leave with little notice.
I don’t necessarily think anyone is inherently “in the wrong” here though. Its just hard being in business with friends.
I liked Karina but im also excited for a new host to shake the dynamic up and give us something fresh.
it's possible. i do still think they'd be a little more positive to each other even in this scenario though, so i'm not sure.
maybe they just wouldnt talk about it, but i dont remember ever hearing about anyone actually not making a deadline, which seems like something they'd joke about. correct me if i'm wrong though?
i'm curious if they'll actually get a new host, and how they'll go about doing that if so? i've seen some suggestions on reddit (lol) but i feel like it runs the risk of working with a fan, which gets weird.
(answering these asks together because i have similar things to say about them.)
admittedly i'm not the most well-equipped to speak on this, because (for mostly unrelated reasons) i have not been keeping up with the streams (and not many of the episodes) for about a year or so.
it's possible this was a factor, although i personally really doubt it. all the fake beef i've seen seemed pretty genuinely lighthearted, and if it was just a case of things going too far i think they would have actually talked it out. based on what other anons have said though, there is some merit to karina becoming increasingly more... upset? during this year especially.
sometime when i'm free i'd like to go back through and watch some vods to catch the vibe, does anyone have any good examples?

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was directed here by @drawfeefan321 so!
as someone whos delved into jacob x karina rfp in the past (a lot of their "sibling"-isms could be taken a different way). it would be crazy for me personally if this is a reason for what feels to me an ousting of a host rather than an amicable leave
hi & welcome!! and that would be absolutely crazy lol. fwiw i think if something like that happened it would be a 'dissolution of drawfee' situation. (unless the implication is that it's still under wraps, in which case: jesus jacob, dick move!)
(sidenote, is there like a secret drawf rpf hub somewhere? the last i checked the ao3 tag was pretty barren)
quite frankly i think the "girls are fighting" anon is a bit misogynistic. i somewhat understand where theyre coming from, but potraying the men as the neutral parties here when they are (hypothetically) just as complicit in offloading work to karina is strange to me. maybe im too woke.
good point, anon! this is important to remember with karina & julia naturally being the forefront for these conversations.
charitable explanation of the ask is that theyre more of the driving forces in the hypothetical (karina will get more work even if j&n are taking equally more work, etc), but i do see where you're coming from.