After being on here for years and having an Ao3 even longer than that, I have finally added a link to my profile! Feel free to look around, or get started with one of the links below:
General Stuff
SkyStar but they're cats
TFP MegaStar have a bad time in the SG universe
- Includes official SG MegaStar prequel, written by @bairdcrevan
Domestic G1 MegaProwl
Erotica
Series of SkyStar BDSM
SkyStar but they met during the war (enemies as lovers)
SkyStar but Skyfire has spines on his spike
Cowritten with @grayseeker
SkyStar being bad at humaning (holoforms)
SkyStar with (Skyfire's) parents
New
G1 Prowl recovering from a head injury
(Also, I do art sometimes! Check out #my art for bits of drawings and some minor 3D modeling experiments).
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The absolute funniest thing to me about autistic!Vox headcanons is that when I first saw them, I thought people were focusing too much on the sharks. Like, okay, he likes sharks. But if you’d asked me then, I’d have said he was one of the most obviously neurotypical characters in the show.
Then it occurred to me that standing on furniture is. Not really neurotypical behavior. So I went back with a fresh perspective and you know what, he definitely has a few quirks that stood out from the rest of the cast. Time to start looking for patterns.
Yeah, so turns out, he’s one of the most obviously neurodivergent characters in the show. And I have no explanation for how I drew exactly the opposite conclusion beyond my brain going, “this is all perfectly normal behavior and requires no further thought”. Except I myself am AuDHD, so if my brain is glossing over a character as “normal”, that’s. Probably an indicator that they’re not neurotypical. So.
Anyway, I have never seen a single post where anyone goes into any detail about his autistic traits, so I’m going to do that now! You’re welcome.
Let’s start with the sensory processing differences, because I’ve already waxed poetic about Vox being a tactile seeker. The really short version is that he touches everything he can get his hands on, up to and including people, because his nervous system needs more tactile input to be satisfied.
He’s also a vestibular seeker, which refers to movement that engages his sense of balance and spacial awareness. He spins, he jumps, he climbs (or jumps) onto furniture, and sometimes he does things like walk sideways and hop backwards - up stairs. “Standing” with his wires also counts, since the addition of vertical movement gives the vestibular system more to process. Regardless of what he’s doing, he never seems to get dizzy, which is typical of vestibular seekers.
On the other side of the coin we have sensory aversions, which Vox doesn’t explicitly demonstrate. But the rooms where he spends most of his time are markedly different from the rest of Vee Tower: big open spaces with low lighting and cool colors, or else random grids of solid red or blue-white panels. There’s no clutter, minimal decoration, and most of the rooms have aquarium glass instead of windows.
He’s not avoiding visual stimuli, by any means, but he does seem to prefer visually quiet environments; not necessarily dark, but with few patterns and little movement apart from whatever he’s focused on. There could be a few reasons for this, but since he doesn’t seem to have a problem with any specific form of visual stimulus, it’s probably more an issue of how much information he can process at one time.
Vox also limits how much visual input he receives during conversations. He's continually turning his back on and moving behind people while he's talking, and when he does face them, his eye contact is sporadic; sometimes it's unrelenting, other times he's glancing away every few words. Conversely, when someone else is speaking, he generally (though not always) turns towards them and makes fairly steady eye contact.
Again, there are a few possible explanations for this. But given that Vox is also someone who talks with his hands (which can help to organize thoughts and maintain fluent speech), and he can make eye contact just fine when he’s not the one speaking, we can actually narrow it down to a likely answer: neurotypical speech simply takes more cognitive resources than he has available.
Talking to people takes a lot of mental coordination. You’re organizing your thoughts, forming them into words, paying attention to the other person's nonverbal language, processing the sensory input from said language, converting that input into meaning, and monitoring your own behavior, and you’re doing it all in real time. And that’s just the act of talking. If you can’t do all of it at once, something has to give, and the only non-essential part of the process is looking at people.
Understanding other peoples’ speech takes a lot of cognitive work too, but it also uses different parts of the brain. So while some autistic people struggle to make eye contact at any point during a conversation, others can do so if they find one skill or the other easier. Rather ironically, Vox appears to have a harder time speaking than listening.
On the topic of nonverbal language, autistic people tend not to use gestures the same way as allistics. Some use fewer, some use more, and they don't always serve a communicative purpose (that is, they aren’t meant to convey information). Vox very much uses more, and while some of them mimic allistic communication, many don't. They might help him communicate (again, talking with his hands), but they’re often meaningless when matched with what he’s actually saying.
Additionally, some autistic gestures are actually stims (aka self-stimulatory behaviors), and Vox seems to have at least a few of those. The most common is pressing his palms together and/or interlacing his fingers, but other repeated movements include waving his hands, moving them in circles, and tapping his fingers. All of these are general-purpose and can occur at any time, though he tends not to use them in front of a crowd.
He also has what appear to be primarily self-soothing behaviors: he spends a lot of time adjusting his lapels or bowtie when he's trying to compose himself, whether because he’s irritated, flustered, or just in an especially good mood. If he's more on edge he might cross his arms instead, or outright hug himself if he's excited, and he does something similar by dejectedly holding one arm when Alastor rejects his offer (crossing one's arms is a common action, but that doesn’t make it any less of a pattern. Especially given how Vox is with touch in general).
When it comes to other people, Vox obviously has issues with appropriate social touch and respecting personal space, which could be attributed to his tactile seeking behaviors. It could also be a sign of low empathy; he likes touch and physical closeness, and either doesn’t realize or doesn’t care that others might not share in that enjoyment (considering his reaction to Alastor calling him out on it, my money is on him not realizing). Either way, he definitely missed the signs that Alastor was merely tolerating it, and he never seems to notice other people reacting when he touches them (though Alastor, specifically, is so theatrical about disliking touch that if Vox had ever seen him physically interact with anyone, it wouldn’t have been unreasonable to assume that a lack of such a reaction meant it was fine when he did it).
His attitude towards touch aside, Vox does generally appear to have relatively low emotional empathy. Beyond irritation, he isn't emotionally affected by Velvette's studio being wrecked or Valentino's upset over Angel leaving, and even before Alastor gets into his head, it’s implied that he regularly acts without consideration for either of them (such as leaving Velvette behind when he electroports, which seems to be a common occurrence). And that’s his behavior towards people he likes.
On the other hand, he can understand other people’s thoughts and feelings to some extent, even if he mostly uses that knowledge to hurt and manipulate them. So he is capable of cognitive empathy, and probably pretty good at it; he’s not infallible, especially if he’s not given anything to work with, but he can figure people out.
He also demonstrates compassionate empathy (taking action to help others) on multiple occasions: he answers Velvette's summons despite not wanting to deal with Valentino, pays attention to what Val is saying, and offers him something to make him feel better. He leaves out a pen and paper so Val can draw during the Take Over Heaven presentation and gets all of his requested foods "just in case". He's willing to put himself in harm's way to protect the other two. Even if it’s a matter of practicality from his perspective, it’s still a form of caring, and comes from a place of genuine affection.
That being said, Vox has a friend circle of two. He has gotten close to three people in seventy years (and he's known Valentino for around fifty of those years, so it's not just because Alastor traumatized him). He also has a room dedicated entirely to hiding away from the world with his sharks and watching spying on people through screens instead of talking to anyone.
For all that he loves performing and being the center of attention, he doesn't show much desire for one-on-one social interaction. He certainly wants the option, and does enjoy the company of those he's close to, but he also wants to be left alone. And even when he doesn't want to be alone, spending time with someone doesn't mean interacting with them directly. Sometimes it looks like having tea together while they work on separate tasks.
When he does interact directly with people, whether through desire or necessity, Vox is a "take the topic and run with it at full speed until forced to stop" type of guy. He can literally have entire conversations all by himself: when he calls Charlie to "invite" her to his party, she only speaks when she realizes who's calling and right before he hangs up. In the flashback, Vox does all of the talking for nearly a full minute while Alastor makes two remarks (one of which is permission for Vox to keep going). He can have a proper back and forth exchange, and sometimes even wants to (he's disappointed when Alastor refuses to engage with him after surrendering), but his conversations do tend to be one-sided.
I could keep going (full disclosure: I consider everything I’ve said so far to be a general overview). But this is getting long, so I want to wrap up by saying that fictional characters are not diagnosable. Buuut Vox does legitimately meet the behavioral criteria.
He has difficulties with social-emotional reciprocity (the “back and forth” of social interactions, empathy and emotional responsiveness, approach to communication, etc).
He has differences in nonverbal communication.
He has difficulties with developing, maintaining, and understanding relationships (which includes a lack of interest in doing so).
He has “repetitive or stereotyped movements, use of objects, or speech”, aka stimming.
He has sensory processing differences.
He has “highly restricted, fixated interests that are abnormal in intensity or focus” (I don’t need to get into the sharks. Everybody knows about the sharks).
The first three are all required. The latter three come from a cluster of four traits where only two are required. The only trait out of the seven he hasn’t definitively demonstrated is “insistence on sameness, inflexible adherence to routines, or ritualized patterns”. So like.
As headcanons go, you don’t get much closer to canon. He could literally be diagnosable in-universe.
#the biggest thing i noticed is the overstimulation #and when he gets overstimulated he lashes out impulsively. gets loud. gets violent
#he also has these big emotions. he cries when he's angry and upset #i've never more related to those big emotions and not being able to communicate them productively
#and while i agree that dx'd fictional character is not something i wanna do this headcanon is very dear to me #like finally an adjacent autistic character that i relate with #yeah he's a dead serial killer and capitalist but idk good doctor could never etc etc
!!!!!
@ op (and great tags from prev!!!) i'm so glad you made this post because, ever since someone made a delightful compilation of Vox spinning himself and other people, i've thought a lot about how that could be a helpful+unconscious form of stimulation for him, but i hadn't connected that to neurodivergency.
it was hilarious that the week i saw this post, i'd also just started my own notes of "okay let's just see what evidence there is for Vox being autistic because he seems pretty neurotypical to me. neurotypical people can have a favorite animal and favorite pet, so that can't be the only reason if i'm going to be onboard with this idea."
and then i stopped taking notes because i was like ''oh. okay. never mind'' SFQJBQSKSFQKS
(putting the rest under a cut because i ramble a bit; this was originally in the tags but, with seemingly each day lol, i kept adding more, and then it got concerningly close to the 30 tag maximum, where tumblr just deletes tags without notifying you sfqkkqbqs. so i'm playing it safe and actually putting it in the body of the post. ...OKAY I'M VERY GLAD I MOVED OUT OF THE TAGS LOL)
like you had here, one of the biggest points in my own notes was his limited amount of friends both in life and afterlife, including his original seeming lack of interest in having close connections in the first place (which changed with Alastor and the Vees, even if he still has an extremely limited circle and seems mostly okay or okay-ish with that).
literally in the commentary for s1 ep2, there's a bit where the creators are like ~''he has just two friends and a dog. thing. you'll see in season two.''
just for anyone unaware and to clarify accidental implications the above comments of mine might have: being disinterested in socializing or personal connections is NOT a defining feature of everyone who's autistic. many really want friends and can have lowered self-esteem and other issues if they're unable to form meaningful friendships.
(because i realize the above description may sound detached or unempathetically clinical, i'm talking about my type of autism with this description of autists who "really want friends"; i've been incredibly lucky to find great people who are on or adjacent to the spectrum, making enjoyable connection a lot easier than otherwise.)
it's just important info to be aware of in these discussions that there ARE many autistic individuals who don't have a strong inclination to form friendships and who can be pretty content pursuing their interests on their own.
(here's an article discussing different "types" or presentations of autism, with some discussion on autists who aim for social connections versus those who are fine going through life more solo. the article is mainly about how autism often can present differently between men and women, but it's also about sexism, stereotypes, and unhelpful psychological tradition in diagnosing autism, while discussing alternate ways to describe and recognize it.)
but getting back to the original topic of Vox lol: i also feel as if i should clarify what i mean by socializing and social connections, just in case his being outwardly outgoing and wanting to be a leader and well-known public figure makes the statements in this reblog and the original post seem contradictory. (the original post did a great job, i think, of separating the concepts between crowdwork and one-on-one interactions, but just to be even more clear, to partially make this post into Sort Of Autism 101 With Vox As A Case Study lol)
personal connections are very different from speaking in front of people. you might be familiar with the idea of feeling alone even though you interact with many people or are surrounded by people. it's a concept adjacent to that: do you have connections of personal value, or are you keeping everyone at a distance?
plus, being able to speak in front of an audience or give a presentation is a different skill than holding a one-on-one interaction. for the former, you control everything (in most cases) and memorizing what you want to say can often even be an asset rather being seen as unnatural or a hindrance. with the latter -- personal conversations -- you need to constantly take in new information and adjust. these ways of connecting with people are two different skills, and two very different interests. (Vox seems good at both of these, but, from his having only two friends, he doesn't seem to usually connect with people outside of "business only" interactions.")
basically, the point of the last section is to explain "being charismatic and good at reading people is not the same as being extraverted or a social person." Vox uses his ability to speak to crowds and read people to advance his goals, but spending time in settings intended for socializing -- like clubs or other gathering places -- doesn't seem to be a preference for his free time.
to switch topics again, my one disagreement on the original post could be about Vox's pacifying behaviors. i suppose it can be a thing of degree and frequency like much about autism and neurodivergency in general, but neurotypicals use a lot of pacifying behaviors too.
i'm not an expert on this, so idk the difference in degree and frequency (just iirc that frequent self-harming pacifying behaviors increase the odds that someone may be ND, especially if the behaviors aren't intended as self-harm. but again -- i'm not an expert), but ye, in regards to that being an indicator of autism, that's my one objection (that i might change my mind about) on this awesome post 🙌
You are correct! Everyone self-soothes, and the (visible) difference between autistic and neurotypical people is largely one of frequency and intensity. There is also an internal difference in that neurotypical self-soothing is usually about cognitive/emotional regulation, and is most common while relaxing or dealing with something stressful. Autistic people also self-sooth as emotional regulation, but it can be caused by both negative and positive experiences ("happy stimming"), and is also common with sensory overwhelm or understimulation (which is why NT self-soothing strategies don't always work for autistic people. Mindfulness does not help me when the source of the problem is sensory, it just makes me want to crawl out of my skin).
I do question whether self-harmful soothing is, in fact, more common in neurodivergent populations, or if neurotypical self-harmful behaviors are just more subtle and normalized. I can't find any statistics for the prevalence of self-harmful stims in autism, but for nail biting I'm seeing estimates of 20-30% of the general population. And I would consider that a self-harmful stress response.
Anyway, you are open to changing your mind about Vox's self-soothing being autistic in nature, so allow me to try and change it!
All of my observations about his behavior in this post were made while comparing him to other characters (yes, that means I spent many scenes just watching how much eye contact they were making during conversations). The specific behaviors I listed as self-soothing were ones I noticed occurring entirely in an emotional context, as a normal thing, with a clear sensory component, and rarely exhibited by other characters in similar situations.
For example, several characters hug themselves when they're upset, but not usually when they're excited. Not only does Vox frequently hug/hold himself when he's excited, this is a form of deep pressure stimulation, which actively influences the nervous system to shift the body into a more relaxed state. In other words, self-soothing.
I also included fussing with his bowtie and lapels as a self-soothing behavior because, unlike some generalized stims like tapping his fingers, he seems to do it specifically when he's emotionally off-kilter. And more specifically, when he's trying to push aside or rein in some emotion (including one instance where Alastor is goading him, and he visibly stops, takes a breath, and sits down while adjusting his tie. A clear moment of intentional self-soothing).
And the reason I classify it as a possible sign of autism: where other characters typically only exhibit self-soothing behaviors when they're distressed (or really excited, in Charlie's case), he is doing it constantly. Irritated? Gleeful? Flustered? Doesn't matter what or how intense the emotion is, if he needs to settle down or stay focused (in other words, if he needs to emotionally regulate), his hands are on his clothes.
In short, as compared to those around him, Vox exhibits both visible self-soothing behaviors under circumstances where others don't need them, and a specific behavior that occurs both more frequently and in a wider range of situations than specific behaviors demonstrated by others (Alastor pulling on his hair and Angel hugging himself are both specific and repeated behaviors, but limited to moments of distress).
There is currently a huge sale on Steam. Go grab a game if you are curious!
Fallout 4 is the one with the best environment and gameplay, as well as arguably the very best Companion in the franchise (Nick Valentine, the Synth Detective). However, its writing is criticised for being more toothless than previous entries, because it introduces powerful moral queries and then ignores them.
Fallout New Vegas has by far the best writing, with actually thoughtful quests and some of the most iconic dialogue ever seen in videogames (you know the "I survived because the fire etc etc" quote? Yeah, it's from New Vegas). However, it's plagued by a ton of technical issues which can make the gameplay a pain in the ass. Also the environment sucks, 90% of everything is brown.
Fallout 3 is the one with the best atmosphere. The writing is nowhere near as good as new vegas, and the gameplay is nowhere near as good as 4, but it does an excellent job introducing people to the world of Fallout and really making you feel that post-Apocalyptic vibes. However, it's essential that you get the Game Of The Year edition, because its DLC fixed the stupidest ending I've ever seen and made it good. Also this is the only modern Fallout game where the Companions are not immortal, so take five minutes to download a mod to keep them safe.
I don't know if this happens to you too but every so often I see a post that's like "well I don't read fanfiction for it to be like canon" and like honestly I don't get it, you liked a story and its characters and it's setting etc. etc. and then you go read fanfiction of those characters in that universe hoping that they're... different characters in a different universe???? Like I must be missing something here
I mean, if you want to get technical, shipfic with non-canon pairings is "not like canon". Keeping a dead character alive or killing off a different one in their place is "not like canon". Redeeming a character who was exclusively evil in the source material is "not like canon". And that's not even counting popular AU settings (high school, coffee shop, human, omegaverse, etc).
If they're actively hoping the characters are completely different people, I would be a bit confused, because at that point it's like. Why are you reading about these specific characters if they aren't those characters anymore? But generally speaking, I would guess what those readers actually mean is that they prefer exploring AUs and what-ifs over reading something that feels like it could be a continuation of or addition to canon.
Or they liked the characters but not the story. I have definitely been in that position.
You guys ever play a RPG like Fallout, where you are supposed to roleplay your Main Character through the story to its conclusion?
Let's say that there is a character in the game who, for trivial and petty reasons, annoys the shit out of you. Let's say you still intellectually recognise that this character has narrative weight, and that it wouldn't fit your MC's crafted personality to murder them.
So you make a quick save. Then you proceed to paint the walls with their blood. Then you load the save and keep playing the story where Annoying Asshole is still alive.
You get what I mean?
Canon must retain coherent plot points and consistent characterisation and thematic narrative for it to be good. The same way the actual story in the game can't have your MC, whom you have been roleplaying as Good Person, shoot someone in the dick because he was annoying.
But you can do whatever you want in a scenario that you are going to erase with a reload. And you can do whatever you want in a fanfiction.
And yeah, having the characters "do whatever you want" in the fanfiction does mean that they are acting in ways they wouldn't in canon. But it's not meant to be OOC, so much as an exaggeration of their original traits for the sake of satisfaction.
Hello hi! If I may add my two cents to the weight thing. I do agree with everything said about canon vox.
The environment he's in just wouldn't allow it and I do think some people use the "evil ceo" shortcut, especially when it comes to the "redesigns" made by people who don't even like the show and think they can make the designs "better" by i dunno making vox fat and throwing old clothes on him cuz he's "from the 50s" completely misunderstanding his character
However, to me there's smth very special about taking someone as energetic as vox, making him/her (don't ask) fat and keeping the energy, keeping the dancing and the jumping on furniture and whatnot. I don't think many people do that which is a shame :/. Quite often I see an AU with a fat vox with him mellowed out and just not as enthusiastic and something about that irks me a bit.
Vox is a creature that needs to keep moving to live to me and no matter how convoluted the AU gets I need that to be consistent at the very least.
That is an excellent point, and one I would count under "redesigning based on what appeals to the artist". It might not make sense in canon, but! It is fun. And sometimes that's the only thing that matters.
I also fully agree on keeping Vox active no matter what his body type is. I ultimately didn't comment on that because fanon in general tends to make him way less energetic than in canon, and I didn't want to imply that it was just a fatphobia thing. Buuuut it is fatphobic to say that fat people can't be active, or that they're all lazy and clumsy (Vox seems capable of dancing at a professional level, and he does a lot of jumping and spinning. He's going to retain that spatial awareness and skill at any weight, methinks).
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I wonder why we never see any of the souls Vox owns? (I mean, maybe Ethan or Katie have their souls owned by him but we don't actually have proof of that IIRC) Presumably he must own some as an Overlord. And yeah, we don't see any of the souls that Overlords like Carmilla or Zestial or Prick or Hatchet or Zeezi, etc, own, but with Vox having had so much focus this past season, I imagine it would have come up.
Believe it or not, we do technically "see" one, and with some regularity. There's a news crawl in S2 x E1 that reads, "This is why I've been saying the Vees should be in charge. Just look at their friendly little faces. I'd trust them with my soul. In fact, I did! That's why I'm forced to write teleprompter speech for the rest of my existence. Hey but twenty dollars was twenty dollars. Am I right?"
The Vees are known to share their employees, of course, but being implicitly a member of the news crew, we can assume that's one of Vox's (there's also a crawl in S2 x E5 that starts to comment on how Vox almost lost to Alastor last time they fought, only to cut off and resume with how Alastor's defeat was inevitable. Which was definitely Vox's doing).
My assumption is that Vox probably owns the news and tech people, along with all the cleaners and maintenance people and so on required to keep a business operational. Maybe not all of them, since we don't know for sure that the Vees do own all of their employees (Baxter is up for debate, for example), but probably most of them.
If it's going to come up, I actually think it would make more sense to do it in S3 than in S2. Because Vox has presumably lost most or all of the power he got from his approval ratings, so now he's limited to what he gets from the souls he owns. And that's assuming his deals with those souls weren't dependent on them working for him specifically, because if he's no longer officially associated with the company that employs them, and the other Vees aren't keeping him on behind the scenes, that could have broken those deals.
The souls he owns weren't relevant in S2, but in S3, they're going to be the difference between him keeping some of his power or almost none of it. And while I don't expect the show to get into it much (because of the runtime if nothing else), I do anticipate getting some nice implications to chew on.
I don't know if this happens to you too but every so often I see a post that's like "well I don't read fanfiction for it to be like canon" and like honestly I don't get it, you liked a story and its characters and it's setting etc. etc. and then you go read fanfiction of those characters in that universe hoping that they're... different characters in a different universe???? Like I must be missing something here
I mean, if you want to get technical, shipfic with non-canon pairings is "not like canon". Keeping a dead character alive or killing off a different one in their place is "not like canon". Redeeming a character who was exclusively evil in the source material is "not like canon". And that's not even counting popular AU settings (high school, coffee shop, human, omegaverse, etc).
If they're actively hoping the characters are completely different people, I would be a bit confused, because at that point it's like. Why are you reading about these specific characters if they aren't those characters anymore? But generally speaking, I would guess what those readers actually mean is that they prefer exploring AUs and what-ifs over reading something that feels like it could be a continuation of or addition to canon.
Or they liked the characters but not the story. I have definitely been in that position.
just because you mentioned the weight thing again, i'm curious what you think about how many redesigns are floating around where people make specifically Vox fat/fatter out of all the characters. that's always been so fascinating to me. imo it's the sleazy business man stereotype seeping in and clouding how people see his character and it kind of amazes me with how much it contradicts his canon character. i get wanting more variety in body types in the show, but Vox is probably one of the last people i'd do that with (alongside the other Vees for sure)
i think you pointed out before how the artstyle conveys skinny, even when everyone has small waists, but even visuals aside. he's not a typical desk ceo, he's the front facing man of voxtek. he's constantly on air, he's the face. Vox not caring about being appealing to the general public is as crazy imo as hcing Angel as not caring. they're different kinds of actors, but they're part of the same company and environment
and that's not even mentioning how Vel is openly promoting toxic diet culture in advertisements, or how Val talks about his actors/dancers (or the eating disorder Val has lets be fr)
so whenever i see someone keeping all the characters weights the same and then making Vox heaver i always end up feeling like the artist hasn't actually given his character any thought. they just see evil ceo and immediately roll out the fat stereotype
Because there is a lot of discourse in art communities about the "right" way to redesign characters, I just want to preface this by saying I take a "you do you" mentality with most redesigns. Some artists want their designs to reflect the character's personality, others prioritize a story or environment, and some just want to draw what appeals to them (some do all of the above, because they all have value). It's rather elitist to argue that you have to do it a certain way or it's a bad redesign, and I'm not into gatekeeping fun or self-expression.
To me, the actual choices made by the artist are more important than their design philosophy. Because no matter how you approach your redesigns, you can fall into stereotypes.
So with that being said, if a personality-focused artist redesigns a large cast of characters and only makes one of them heavier than they are in canon, I am going to question which traits they are associating with fatness (especially if they're also making some characters thinner than they are canonically). If a context-focused artist does it, I am going to question a design that doesn't make sense for the character's circumstances. And if an aesthetics-focused artist does it, I'm probably going to assume they find fatness ugly (again, especially if they're also making characters they like thinner).
(It should go without saying that any body type can have any personality trait. Unfortunately, many fatphobic stereotypes necessitate that it be said, so there you go).
With Vox specifically, looking at his overall character, I feel like he would have a very complicated relationship with his weight. On one hand, he lived through the Great Depression, and his concern over Valentino not eating shows he knows there's a point where health should come first. He also freely admits to wanting greasy food in the drawing video, so it doesn't seem like he has negative associations with certain foods (or he just doesn't care if something is "unhealthy").
On the other hand, he is in an environment that promotes disordered eating, he is one of only two characters so far depicted as underweight, his partner openly judges him for what he eats, and they're implied to fight about food being "good" or "bad" (Val: "[Sodas] are bad for you." Vox: "Val, I'm not fighting with you."). Said partner also makes a point of mentioning (albeit not to his face) that Vox doesn't meet his normal aesthetic standards for a sexual partner. During a scathing anecdote about a "fat bisexual". I mean...
Valentino might care about Vox, but he is not going to accept a heavier partner, and it would probably be a dealbreaker for him. And given Vox's assorted issues with abandonment and public image, that is not a fight he would put effort into winning. Maybe he won't let Val control what he eats, but if Val pesters him enough about his weight, he's going to lose some weight. That's like. Barely subtext to me.
(I actually got a question on my post about Vox's weight asking if Val prefers skinny partners. At the time I didn't remember him expressing a body type preference for men since we mostly see him hitting on women, but having since revisited the drawing video: He absolutely does. And there is a high likelihood that he contributes to whatever issues Vox has with his own weight).
Applying all of this to redesigns, if it's just an artist who wants to draw their favorite character a certain way, or they're redesigning the entire cast based on what they find aesthetically pleasing and all of them have different body types, I'm just gonna leave them to it. Not every redesign has to make sense based on canon.
If the artist intends for it to make sense, however, I do not think Vox is the right character to depict that way. Even if he had a naturally heavy build, and even if he was comfortable at that weight, he'd be doing everything in his power to stay as small as possible, because his environment, his public image, and his partner demand it. You have to pretty much change the entire context he exists in for it to make sense (which, in fairness, might actually be the case in some AUs).
(Fun fact, I almost changed up the vest on my fem!Vox design, because I feel like seeing Valentino with "more attractive" women all the time would bother her more than it does her canon counterpart, and horizontal stripes supposedly make people look wider. Turns out that's a myth and they actually create the opposite illusion, which is exactly what I wanted. So I kept them).
I was just wondering if you were ever planning on writing Hazbin fics? Most people mischaracterize a lot but I’ve always liked your takes, especially on the Vees.
Planning on and in the process of, lol. Of the ideas I have made note of and done enough work on to consider them WIPs, I have:
Post-S2 Vee-centric fic in which Vox is somewhat traumatized by his own actions and doesn't trust himself not to cause further harm to the Vees, while the other two try to navigate being both mad at and worried about him (inspired by a lot of fics where they ostensibly care about him, yet their top priority is basically punishing him for having a mental breakdown. Also inspired by the fact that Vox is very protective of the other two, and I wanna see him struggle with perceiving himself as the threat).
Post-S2 StaticApple fic where Charlie gets to be a main character, and upset about her dad's new maybe-sort-of relationship. Also has elements of a sick fic/recovery fic, because "what if plugging directly into a malfunctioning angelic weapon was harmful, actually," ended up being the thing that got StaticApple interacting (includes lots of Chaggi, and Vox & Velvette friendship. Val is around, but so far he's a more antagonistic presence, on account of he's not coping well with Vox not doing well. Also featuring Alastor prying into everyone else's business, and Shok.wav being protective of his dad).
RadioStatic time travel fic where Vox decides not to make his offer to Alastor, then does such a bad job of pretending he's not carrying around seventy years' worth of trauma that Alastor figures out something is wrong within 48 hours (or 48 minutes if you only count the time they spend interacting). Kind of both RadioSilence and StaticSilence at the same time, on account of Vox knows Alastor will turn on him if he can't manage on his own, and Alastor wants to get his hands on whoever hurt Vox while being pushed away every time he gets too close (metaphorically or literally).
Post-S2 Angel Dust & Vox one-shot in which they are both lonely, depressed, and touch-starved (starved of safe touch in Angel's case), and it leads to the world's most uncomfortable cuddle session (there are consent issues and a power imbalance. Neither of them knows what a healthy coping mechanism looks like. They hate themselves and each other. Both of them think it's the best they can do under the circumstances, and frankly better than they deserve. Maybe they'd do it again, who knows).
And then I've got a few sitting around that are like, interesting idea, not sure how I'd make it work. But I definitely at least have these four in progress.
Speaking of Vox and gender, and since you mentioned fem!Vox, what do you think a fem!Vox would look like? I personally like the idea of fem!Vox largely just looking like canon Vox, especially it seems like his more masculine attire of suits is because he likes presenting that way rather than because he feels like he Has as a man, but I'd love to hear your thoughts!
Here ya go! You'd trust her, wouldn't you?
I do, indeed, think she'd look pretty similar to her canon counterpart, lol. In my opinion, genderbends are most successful when the character is completely unchanged, save for anything that would actually be affected by their sex/gender (how they were raised, things they were exposed to, the way others treat them, etc). For Vox, that includes clothing preferences staying the same.
Some design notes + things that aren't obvious just from looking at her:
She is similar in stature to Charlie (whom I used as a body type reference), but still slightly taller and a little more broad-shouldered.
Due to her skeletal structure and the way she naturally carries weight, it is physically impossible for her to have the kind of body Valentino would consider a 10 (narrow shoulders, tiny waist, thick thighs). This was deliberate.
Like her canon counterpart, she is underweight.
"Feminizing" adjustments made to her clothes include a wider hat, a more elegant neckline on her vest, and slightly more flared pant legs. I also considered higher heels and looked at women's suit jackets and blazers before deciding to stick with canon for those; she can have more feminine tastes because of how she was socialized, but keeping the shark-like silhouette from the coattails was important to me, and I think she would hate high heels, actually. Been there, fuck that.
I had two rules for the eyes: everything stays on the screen, and she needs to be able to pull off both "sympathetic" and "intimidating". If I could not imagine her appealing to the crowd during the opening of VOX POPULI, then turning around and scaring angels during VOX DEI, something had to change. Since complicated designs become hard to read if the eyelashes are clipping off the screen, I ultimately went simple with it.
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Okay, the new Vees shirt from Hot Topic got me thinking: Vox dresses in a very specific way as almost necessitated by his “friendly neighborhood CEO” persona. As you’ve mentioned before, he definitely does bring his own kind of self expression to that specific style niche, but if he one day wanted to try something very different, what do you think he’d be into, especially in relation to more modern styles? I’m personally fantasizing about how he’d approach all kinds of subculture fashion (not the cultures themselves of course, Vox couldn’t give less of a fuck about “punk values” even if he happened to like the clothes) but I’m really curious to hear your thoughts on this too
On one hand, if it's for an event or a photo shoot or something, I think he'd wear just about anything. He wouldn't necessarily like it, but he'd wear it. And he might even enjoy the novelty of it for a couple hours (he is also fully willing to wear things some would consider ridiculous, such as the soda drink hat. "It's too silly" will never be his reason for disliking a particular article of clothing).
On the other hand, I have so much trouble imagining him trying out a whole new style and liking it enough to wear it on his own time. He's like, the only character with a consistent outfit in the modern day who's been wearing something different every time we glimpse a past version of him, and he's stuck with vests for seventy years. Almost everything we see him wear is predominantly neutral colors or monochrome blue. If he's trying other stuff, he's not sticking with it.
I can see him liking capelets because they're something that could be added to his existing style (and because we've already seen him make a cape for himself). I can see him liking sweaters because we see him in sweater vests multiple times, paired with long sleeved shirts, so it's just modifying his existing style. I can even see more feminine takes on his genderqueerness going for certain styles of skirts because he seems to like loose fabric (coattails, baggy sleeves in the bar flashback, the trench coat-looking thing he wore in the S2 finale).
I cannot see him choosing a punk aesthetic. I look at that Hot Topic shirt and all I see is a photo shoot that he happened to enjoy, because I do not think he would wear any of that of his own accord. Except maybe the necklace, if the chain was shorter.
Of course, this is just my headcanon. When you push a character into something outside of their canon preferences, how they feel about it is pretty much up to your interpretation of that character, and it doesn't bother me if people think he'd enjoy a particular style of clothing (unless it's a style that impairs his movement in some way, then I'm going to be skeptical). I just personally think his taste in clothing is very specific, and given how long he's retained a specific style in spite of his willingness to try different things, it doesn't seem like anything else really appeals to him.
How do you think the Overlord system was established?
I've seen fics where Lilith was directly involved with the Overlords in some way (sitting in on their meetings, relying on them to some extent, etc), and while it's not my favorite take, I'm willing to believe that she did have some level of involvement with what's basically the ruling class of Pentagram City. So in a context where she was that involved, she probably established the system, or else left the Overlords to establish one and just guided them a bit to make sure it was functional.
(Oddly enough, I have never seen this particular take in a story where Lilith is meant to be a villain. Nor have I seen one of those stories address that the Overlords are like. Slave owners at best. And various other forms of evil depending on the individual. I can easily accept Lilith having her own approach to morality, or believing that there's no point in humans having free will if non-humans are going to dictate what they do with it. But without some kind of explanation, I cannot easily accept that Charlie's mother would intentionally organize or benefit from a system where free will can be bought and sold).
Anyway.
While we await more information about Lilith, I prefer an interpretation that largely stays out of intra-Sinner politics and is more concerned with things that affect the group as a whole. So I would tend to assume the Overlord system arose more organically, with Sinners first figuring out that deals made under certain conditions are binding, and then realizing that not only is selling your soul a thing you can actually do, collecting them from other people gives you power.
Assuming Vox isn't an anomaly and other Overlords have additional power sources beyond just souls, there may have been a pre-existing system. But soul ownership would have been the thing most likely to set Overlords against each other, because that was a power source they could compete for directly, and which could only be held by one person at a time (even in the case of the Vees, I assume each soul is owned by an individual, not all three of them). Cue a period of Overlords first snapping up every soul they could, then looking for ways to take souls from the others.
Humans being humans, I would guess that most of the Overlords who managed to rise to the top did so by restricting access to resources for others, and forcing them to bargain for what they needed. I would not be remotely surprised if individual Overlords went to war with others on multiple occasions, using their owned souls as conscripts (I could also see this being an intra-Sinner conflict that Lilith would have actually gotten involved in, even if she was normally more hands-off. Though eternal fighting between immortal armies is a lose-lose situation for everyone, so I actually don't think it would have taken them long to decide for themselves that they needed a different approach).
In this context, the first Overlord meetings were probably about trying to make coexistence work, and then transitioned over time to be more about addressing things of concern to most or all of them (the onward march of technology, the periodic rise or fall of a high-level Overlord, Hellborn trying to get involved with Sinner affairs, etc). Throw in the occasional mutually beneficial alliance and individuals like Zestial and Carmilla actually being/becoming friendly, and you eventually get to where we are today.
Or at very least, you get to where they were before Alastor started hunting Overlords and Vox started partnering up with them. Those two arriving in Hell was not good for the status quo (though I'm gonna put most of the blame on Alastor, because Vox probably would have been fine staying a solo act if he hadn't discovered Friendship).
Do you think Vox would ever consciously experiment with his gender identity? Like I feel like a lot of the genderfuckery he does show is likely unintentional/just how he is.
I guess what I mean is do you think he would, for example, project eyelashes/eyeliner onto his screen, swap his trousers for a skirt/dress, making his voice more feminine, etc? I just really like the idea of genderqueer vox actually getting to act/dress/sound a little more feminine just to see if it suits him. Maybe he decides it’s not for him, or maybe he ends up actually liking it, either way just the idea of him accepting this part of himself and exploring it.
Idk I really enjoy your unique take on Vox (I prefer it to fanon Vox) so I just wondered what your thoughts would be on this. No pressure to answer!
Oh, absolutely. His choice of clothes, at least, is conscious, so him wearing sharper heels than is typical for men already suggests a willingness to experiment. And if he's gonna copy Charlie's voice and features in front of other people without the slightest hint of discomfort, I see no reason why he'd balk at messing around with his own if he wanted to. I don't think he'd even feel that weird about it, considering he could have stopped mimicking Charlie before turning back to the room and he didn't.
(As an aside, I don't really like the eyes on most versions of fem!Vox, but he kinda pulls it off when he's imitating Charlie. So I am of the opinion that we need more depictions that go big with the lashes, especially if they're trying to match the show's style).
I could more easily see him experimenting with skirts than dresses, because they can be paired with clothing we already know he likes (shirts, vests, etc), and he could easily retain his usual look for business settings by swapping his suit jacket for a blazer. But dress or skirt, I think he'd be picky about the style, for the simple reason that he's very active. If he can't move freely, including all the jumping around he does, I don't think he'd be comfortable wearing it.
That said, it is almost impossible to find examples of anything I could see him wearing. This is literally all I've been able to find, after multiple searches, and I am this close to saying fuck it and drawing something. Because this is not the first time I've talked about what kind of feminine clothing he might be willing to wear, and not having actual examples for something as simple as a skirt is killing me.
Luckily for him, his best friend is a clothing designer, and she's familiar with how he moves. If he did want to experiment, she'd be able to help find something that works for him (unlike my search engine, which is no help at all).
Personally, my favorite thing about his gender presentation is that it mixes blatantly masculine with blatantly feminine, so I like the idea that he'd enjoy some feminine clothing. I also headcanon that he'd be fine with simple jewelry, if only because it gives him something to fidget with (he's constantly messing with his bowtie, if he's not wearing it, I need to give him something else. It's a Requirement).
Speaking of Vincent's hair color, he does seem to dye his hair black later (in the first bits of Brighter, he seems to have very dark brown/almost black hair but later he has jet black hair) but why are his gray/white streaks seemingly not affected by the dye? That's always confused me
I was confused by that too, but apparently gray hair just doesn't dye well. It's structurally different from pigmented hair in ways that make it less absorbent, and I guess it's also harder to hide gray hair if you're not dying it your natural color (not sure why. Might be a blending issue or something).
I think lighter hair also needs more layers of dye to reach the desired results than darker hair does, so everything else aside, you'd probably need more dye to get from gray to black than from brown to black.
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Idk if you go on TV Tropes, but the Adorkable entry for Hazbin Hotel includes Vox, which I find really fun
I spent more time on TV Tropes before they required me to turn off my adblocker to access anything, but I still need to make a conscious effort not to live there anytime I visit, lol.
I did not know this entry existed, but I love that it does. He deserves to be included.
Though to me personally, I feel like it understates things just a bit by saying he only occasionally falls into the trope. Not a single word about the hand-drawn illustrations to accompany a 37-slide presentation for an evil plan he literally titled My Evil Plan? The little animated graphics on most of his charts and graphs? The entire digital photo albums of not only his friends, but his favorite ridiculous pictures of his enemies? The jumping and spinning and hugging himself when he's excited?
This man is a goofball at heart. An evil, scary, competent goofball, but a goofball nonetheless. And I love it.
Which fandom takes dislike you the most about Vox ?
I'm taking the cap off the salt shaker for this one.
In no particular order:
Masculine insecurity/internalized homophobia (putting them together because they usually go hand in hand). Something I largely ignored as a headcanon I didn't agree with early on, but once I started reading fic, I realized that oh. There is no escaping this. Everyone is writing it. The one genderqueer character who more visibly presents as masculine instead of feminine, and everyone thinks he's. Fixated on being masculine. And needs to be the dominant partner in a relationship because being too submissive is gay. Ummm. What.
On a similar note, people who know he's canonically bi, but still argue that he's obviously gay because he rejected Katie and has only shown interest in men. Funnily enough, different people have different tastes, and not everyone is into boobs and hips. Just because you think Katie is objectively hot doesn't mean he does. Also! Most people do not like being sexually harassed, and will be put off by unwanted advances even from someone they do find attractive.
People acting like he's just so incredibly horny for Alastor. Specifically and only Alastor, because I never see him written that way for any other pairing. Y'all have put me off RadioStatic smut by being weird about it, congratulations.
Relatedly, people reducing his pain from Alastor nuking their friendship to "he can't handle rejection". Having his offer of a partnership turned down via laughter and mockery was a rejection, and even as harsh as it was, his only reaction was quiet hurt. Being told they were never friends was a betrayal, and that was what made him angry. "Alastor had a right to say no" and "that does not justify what he did to Vox" are ideas that can and do coexist.
Any and all stereotypes that derive from him being a "rich old white man", but especially the ones that are actively contradicted by canon. Some people do live up to some stereotypes, and headcanons don't need canon support. But you aren't going to convince me that it's "just a headcanon" when you've rewritten an entire character into a generic stereotype.
Also, there's this weirdly pervasive idea that he died in his 50s, which people talk about like it's canon even though it isn't. The wiki says he's biologically 30s-40s, and honestly, that seems about right based on what we see when he died. On average, Caucasians start graying in their 30s, and are (on average) fully gray within 10-20 years. He could have easily died in his late 30s-early 40s if you're only going by hair color (this one doesn't actually bother me that much, but the fact that people seem to think it's canon is... frustrating).
Funnily enough, not a fan of autistic!Vox headcanons. Specifically because people usually treat it as "his personality is sharks and he's a little socially awkward". Like. Mm-kay, we're stereotyping again. Can we maybe do ten minutes of research before we label our depiction of a character as autistic? Ten minutes is enough time to at least read the diagnostic criteria and rethink your choices. And maybe even commit to doing some real research so you can do it right. Just a thought.
I'm probably missing a couple, but I think I got the big ones.
