Mentally Preoccupied

General Stuff

SkyStar but they're cats TFP MegaStar have a bad time in the SG universe - Includes official SG MegaStar prequel, written by @bairdcrevan Domestic G1 MegaProwl

Erotica

Series of SkyStar BDSM SkyStar but they met during the war (enemies as lovers) SkyStar but Skyfire has spines on his spike

Cowritten with @grayseeker

SkyStar being bad at humaning (holoforms) SkyStar with (Skyfire's) parents

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G1 Prowl recovering from a head injury

I mean….people are allowed to explore whatever themes they like, but those particular takes leave a bad taste in my mouth. Why simply having an an evil white guy hanging out with evil latino and evil black woman because they match each other’s freak isn’t enough?

I think that was the first take I saw about Vox's alleged bigotry that had me outright going, "I don't think that means what you think it means". Because if it was a fetish thing, we'd kinda... know it? Because he'd be treating them based on the stereotypes he was assigning to them, not based on their actual personalities. And he just. Never. Does that.

Like. He offers Alastor a Sazerac, which originates from Alastor's home city. One could argue that it is stereotyping to assume he likes Sazeracs just because they're both from New Orleans. Except Sazeracs are traditionally made with Rye Whiskey, and Mimzy mentions that he likes Rye. So it wouldn't be a stretch to assume he does also like Sazeracs. Either way, that would be very specific regional knowledge for Vox to have if all he cared about was Alastor's race, because he wouldn't have learned it without getting close to him first.

Even with Valentino, whom he does make a racist comment towards, his choice of words with "island language" implies that he knows and acknowledges that Val is Puerto Rican, and isn't just stereotyping him as Mexican because he speaks Spanish. And even though Val is his actual partner, he never makes... any comment to imply what he finds attractive about him. If he was going to actively fetishize anyone, it would be the guy he's actually sleeping with, and he just doesn't.

And that's. Really it? It's the closest he ever comes to stereotyping, and in both cases, it's actually showing a certain amount of attention paid to them. Not just his idealized racial stereotype version of them.

And then on the other side of the relationships you have Alastor, who never relaxes fully with anyone yet was perfectly comfortable in Vox's company. Valentino, who calls Vox out multiple times for racism, both accidental and intentional, and would presumably not be sleeping with him if it was a racial thing. And Velvette, who also calls Vox out on racism, but hangs out with him casually and is actually upset when he stops spending time with her and Val. All three of them fully and openly enjoyed his company while they were on good terms, which should tell you everything you need to know about how he treated them.

I'm pretty sure I have seen that a couple times, and it does irritate me.

I know for a fact that I have stopped reading a fic over his inner monologue referring to Vaggi as the Mexican. She is an angel and he knows it, and also, What The Fuck.

And yeah, I saw someone point out once that he's not just being generically racist with Val. Not that targeted racism is any better, but it does imply that he knows what Val's actual ethnicity is, and cares about the distinction.

Which on a purely personal note has always surprised me bc I don't ever think about that so I need to go see other's people's opinion to know which behaviours of characters are considered to be masculine or femenine

My experience in fandom prior to Hazbin was primarily Transformers, and I rarely felt a need to think about gender expression with giant alien robots (though a lot of people do like drawing the robots in dresses, and I never understood that). So coming into this fandom was very... Wait, do we care about gender here? Is that a thing we care about? I don't care about that, so I'm just gonna not, actually.

And then I saw everyone arguing that Vox has fragile/toxic masculinity and you know what, apathy cancelled, this is war.

That said, I've seen quite a few fics where people explore gender stuff with Vox. I've seen trans takes, genderfluid takes, takes not otherwise specified. And every. Single. Time. He is uncomfortable with feminine things, uncomfortable wanting feminine things, and stressing over his perception of himself as a man. Which is a common experience, and a valid approach to stories that have gender identity as a theme.

But uh. It is. Always binary. It is always man or woman. No in between. Not both. Not neither. One or the other.

Also, I can get the masculine insecurity from literally any other fic that puts Vox in contact with feminine things, so the gender focused ones end up feeling like more of the same unless he's like, actually in a dress or something. And then it's like his entire personality changes.

So I'm over here with my collection of screenshots. Replaying scenes over and over for the sole purpose of watching his hands, or the way he holds himself when he walks, or the positions he tends to settle in when he's not moving. Inundating myself in his particular brand of gender fuckery. Which, I would like to add, I picked up on within a couple weeks of first watching the show. He's been genderqueer to me pretty much from the start.

And then I read one of these fics, whether it explores gender or not, and I see him react negatively to anything that "undermines" his masculinity. And suddenly I'm experiencing second-hand dysphoria, because that's like. I literally forget people see him that way. And then it crops up and I'm hit with the same full-body Ick that I get when people use the wrong honorifics for me (pronouns? Don't care. Honorifics? The Ick).

Like. It's not a "this headcanon doesn't match mine and I'm annoyed" thing. Because I know most people actually interpret it as canon. But I also get the same thing with fics that do explore gender, because it's literally just the same thing on the opposite end of the binary. With the bonus frustration of genderfluidity =/= personality change. Why does this feel like two different characters in one body. And why is it always about clothes. Why does the dysphoria never work the other way, and the more feminine days aren't accompanied by discomfort with male sex traits? I know not everyone experiences dysphoria that way, but I have literally never seen it come up.

Also, when it is about clothes, why is it never, "okay, definitely not a woman, just likes feminine clothing". Because uh. Val is right there. No one has trouble with him being a man who happens to like dresses. Why does the struggle with feminine things always have to be linked to actual gender identity.

I'm just like. I love the dichotomy. I love how completely out of place Vox looks hanging out in Velvette's room, and how perfectly at ease he is there. I love watching this man in a full suit adopting mannerisms that would be deemed feminine/stereotypically gay, in public, and just not thinking about it. I love that he mixes masculine and feminine clothing instead of needing to be completely one or the other, even if it's mostly just the shoes (though one could argue that the shirt he's wearing in the bar flashback is kind of gender-ambiguous). I love that he's perfectly comfortable imitating a woman's voice and features, and that he just goes along with Velvette treating him like one of the girls.

Yup. It seems to be one of the few things about Vox everyone actually agrees on. Even the arguments I've seen about how he needs to move on from Alastor seem to recognize that killing him would not help with that.

I strongly suspect that it's a heroes vs villains thing. If they're Good Guys (or at least aligned with the Good Guys), they need to be morally superior to the Bad Guys. So they can't be doing anything Obviously Bad like being racist or sexist (I have seen Angel get some knock back for sexually harassing people, but that's a persona he drops around his friends halfway through S1, so it's kind of obvious that's not who he really is). Meanwhile, Vox is a villain, so he has to be visibly worse than the heroes. And I guess his canon evil isn't evil enough somehow, so hey, he's a white man from the 50s. Let's just give him All The Bigotry.

And with Angel and Pentious, you also have the fact that they're pretty sweet once you get past their defenses. Behind the sexual harassment and the evil war machines, they're fundamentally just lonely, wounded people who enjoy a bit of violence sometimes and crave meaningful connection with others. And that entire definition also applies to Vox, right down to showing a much softer side with people he's close to.

But the other two are sweet in a way that triggers protective urges, while Vox expresses his through protectiveness and caregiving. He comes off as stronger and more in control (which, he's an Overlord, so that's also just objectively true), so it's easier to ignore his positive traits, or even twist them into negatives (like arguing that he treats the other Vees like he's their boss and not their equal, even though he only really gets bossy when it comes to public relations - clearly his area of expertise, not theirs - and when he's actively looking out for them).

If you add Husk to the mix, since he'd have grown up during the same approximate time period as Angel and Vox, you have another example of a guy with a hidden soft side who expresses it more through looking after others. But he is also a literal embodiment of wet cat energy.

And with all three of the protagonists, once you get past their defenses, you're in. Vox will let people close, but then immediately retreat to arm's length once he realizes he's done it. So it's also a thing where his trauma response and insecurities come off as less sympathetic than the others' do, and make his affection for his friends appear less genuine.

Also, Angel, Pentious, and Husk have a larger and therefore more diverse friend group, while all of Vox's meaningful relationships have been with POC. And that has people declaring that he's trying to surround himself with people he can feel superior to, which. Yeah, hanging out with the literal most powerful sinner in Hell, who could have snuffed him out like a candle at the time of their friendship, would definitely make him feel superior. Yup. Superior to everyone else because Alastor lets him close while being an existential threat to them, maybe.

And I will never get tired of pointing out that he lets Velvette, a Black woman, boss him around. And leaves her to do her thing when they're working together on a project.

So there's a few contributing factors to why Vox is the only one who gets the "time period-appropriate bigotry" treatment. But I'm pretty sure the biggest one is just that he's a villain, so people are willing to give him traits they wouldn't give the protagonists.

Vox canonically is THE guy that's all about change and going with the times. To the point he physically alters his body by updating his heads. That's not just a random quirky thing he does because it's "cool", that's vital characterization. The idea that HE out of all characters is stuck in the past is so laughable. Mr "such a shaky sense of identity that he will fill literally every role he thinks people would like him in" is for sure unwilling and incapable of change. for sure.

It's even funnier when Alastor is right there. The guy who refuses to adapt to modern technology on principle, hasn't even updated his wardrobe since at least the 50s, and is so set on his principles that he still holds on to stuff like there not being friends in hell, despite, quite literally, having multiple people that would consider him a friend at multiple points in time (Vox, Mimzy, potentially Nifty and Charlie). That's the guy people should focus on when it comes to being stuck in the past, not Vox who bends over backwards to stay with the times

The thing that gets me about the fandom's treatment of Vox is, anyone who genuinely sees him that way is exhibiting the very same prejudices they accuse him of. They are assigning him negative traits on the basis of sex and race, assigning and withholding abilities on the basis of sex and race, and then writing metas that treat the resulting stereotype as who he really is rather than spend any time studying his character.

And then you have Alastor, who is actually much more masculine than Vox is if you judge him by anything other than stature, much more toxic in how he expresses that masculinity, and absolutely more stuck in his ways.

But because he is a Black man who gets along better with women, he gets feminine traits, and feminist perspectives, and his being stuck in the past is, quite frankly, romanticized. He's a gentleman, his aesthetic is comfortably old fashioned, he cares about manners, he never lets his emotions get the best of him.

And he's a protagonist, so his evil acts are often treated as more justified than Vox's. Even though they're both sadistic serial killers who derive entirely too much pleasure from what they do.

Ok so like, are Husk's magical girl weapons the cards or the rings? My vote goes for the rings since cards would be easier to hide and/or store in his clothes but I don't see no other reasons why he can suddently pull out giant metal rings when he needs to fight Val

I'm going to say neither!

I'mma be honest, I don't think I've ever watched a single magical girl anime outside of a few episodes of Bee and Puppycat years ago. But my assumption is that a weapon summon would be a single unique item or items: Alastor has his staff, Velvette a broom, Niffty both a knife and a needle. Angel has a gun for each hand, but still a limited number of guns. Cherri is a weird case, because she can summon as many bombs as she wants, but it seems like she has to make them by hand. So she can presumably run out.

Meanwhile, Husk can throw all the cards he wants, all the exploding dice he wants, and his rings can multiply. All of his powers are based on stage magic, and you can do tricks with cards, rings, and dice, so they all fall into the realm of things his powers can logically produce.

Has has cables because he strangles his producers with cables. He has electricity because he used lightning to kill the old network owner. He has shark like traits because he killed a guy with a shark. He can summon his weather stick like Alastor does his staff and Angel his tommy guns, suggesting it's his intended weapon by hell/magical girl standards.

So can his sinner form manifest gas and explosions to kill people as well, since that's how he killed the cooking show host? And why about the game show guy? Can he summon a wheel to crush people?

I love "magical girl standards" as an explanation for the weapons, lol.

You know what, sure. Let's break this down.

The news anchor: killed by his own hand, using his weather pointer. Reflected in his sinner form by a weapon summon.

The talk show host: killed by his own hand, using a stage light. Not technically reflected in his sinner form, though having a glowing screen for a face is functionally the same thing.

The producers: killed by his own hand, using cables. Reflected in his sinner form by cables/wires.

The animal guy: technically killed by a shark, but the shark was an animal with no say in the matter, so it counts as a murder weapon. Reflected in his sinner form by shark traits (said traits could also have been influenced by his place of death being an abandoned aquarium, and by his own love of sharks).

The cook show host: killed through sabotage by cutting a gas line. Not reflected in his sinner form, because someone else struck the match that caused the explosion.

The game show host: killed through sabotage by loosening the screw holding the wheel in place. Not reflected in his sinner form, because someone else spun the wheel.

The network owner: killed by his own hand, again using his weather pointer (which acted as a lightning rod). Reflected in his sinner form by electricity (could also have come from his cause of death including electrocution).

because Vox sticking to his usual looks and not changing them every scene like Vel/Val is fine, makes sense since up until now he's always taken the reasonable leader role of the Vees that's the rock and voice of reason while his business partners can be pretty impulsive and if people like him and his persona why even think about changing anything. but that does always make it way more funny to me when he does an impression of someone and suddenly commits so hard to it doesn't just copy their voice but makes it really pop by also imitating their face

it's just kind of cool to me that the Vees are all inherently able to alter their appearance in really drastic ways, and it makes it even more interesting that Vox's chooses to not take advantage of it

Funnily enough, I think it's the other way around, re: not changing his persona if people like it. Because every time he's changed his outfit in the present day, it's been for an advertisement, a public appearance, a televised appearance, or matching with Velvette during Speedrun to Redemption. In private, he's never changed it beyond taking off his suit jacket. Even looking at past outfits, it's always sweater vests/sweaters paired with a shirt or jacket. So I think a lot of his sticking to one style really is because he chooses to, not because he hasn't thought about experimenting.

And I do think he's experimented, because his expression/presentation is subtly genderqueer. For one thing, plenty of characters of both sexes wear heeled shoes, and the art style usually simplifies all shoes to have sharp heels when viewed from a distance. But it does the opposite with Vox, who actually does wear pointed heels; the one time he's wearing wide heels, the art style reflects that even at a distance. So it seems like more "masculine" footwear isn't his preference.

Beyond that, while his physical appearance doesn't change much apart from head and wardrobe upgrades over the years, his mannerisms and the way he carries himself change dramatically and frequently. And he doesn't seem to have a particular preference for how he comes across to others, which is saying a lot from someone who cares about public perception as much as Vox does.

He's still very much taking part in the gender/expression fuckery, but it mostly shows up in his behavior, not his appearance. Though he doesn't seem remotely self-conscious about imitating Charlie with other people around, so I honestly don't think it would bother him to appear more feminine. He just likes dressing in a particular way that happens to come across as masculine, and he's retained some variation of that style for decades.

the killing montage in Brighter includes the cooking show lady and given that the whole crux of the montage is him killing people to take over their position, it does suggest he took her job at some point too. unless you'd want to argue that some of the kills were just people he got out of the way to get more views himself. in which case he still wraps it back around by again, showing up as a cooking show host in Stayed Gone. I personally think it's much more likely he hosted the show in life and stayed gone was an homage to it (or he just hosted another one) because a lot of the roles he takes on in stayed gone seem to mirror what he did in life

and sure, you can absolutely host a cooking show and not be a great chef, it just has to look good for the cameras and you have to vaguely sound like you know what you're talking about (especially since a lot of them use preprepared food for steps that take too long). but still, he would have picked up on Something from all of that. no way he walks out of having to seem like a semi competent cook on TV only to not know how to make at least semi decent pasta or something

really just feels like another fanon mischaracterization where Vox gets portrayed as way less competent than he actually is for whatever reason

In the case of Brighter, my interpretation is that he didn't take over the cooking show himself, but did take over as its producer after killing off the original. But he wasn't allowed to fire the existing talent to replace her with someone else, so he killed her instead. Or I guess in her case he kind of did fire her, from a certain perspective.

But he does definitely appear to have, if not an entire show, then at least a cooking segment in the present day. And while the edibility of his dish is up for debate (unless he learned how to cook venison from Alastor, who just eats it raw), I do think it proves some level of interest in at least appearing like he knows his way around a kitchen.

Also. Funny you should mention being able to host a cooking show without being a chef, because I actually don't think the woman in Brighter spent any amount of time in a kitchen when she was off set. Look at this horror show.

First, that is a gas stove, and anyone who has spent much time cooking with a gas stove is unlikely to forget that they need matches to light it. It could happen, but it's probably going to be automatic for most people. There were electric stoves back then, so you could argue she just has one of those at home. Except she goes to turn on the stove while her hand is under the pan. I do not believe she actually knows how to cook, or that she can be trusted not to burn something down.

As for the fanon portrayal of Vox, I actually saw a fic once where the author said they love Competent!Vox. But instead of expressing that by putting him in situations where he could really shine, they intentionally wrote him as less silly than he is in canon. Because I guess you can't be competent if you have a single ounce of whimsy in your soul. Or autism that includes "weird" behaviors.

So yeah. Pretty sure a lot of people just don't take him seriously, and that paired with the 50s White Man stereotype has people convinced that he's useless at anything that isn't stereotypically masculine.

she talks to him like he's a child ("ooh, baxter! that's a fun name!" "aww, look at your little lab coat, it's very cute"). bear in mind, she's just met this very clearly adult man, and he wants to stay at her establishment. putting on a professional front might be hard for her given her current mental state, but i still don't understand why she would take this tone with a guest.

idk, i guess i was just wondering what your thoughts were on it? like i cannot figure out why she would talk to him like this. is it just because he's a short (a possibility, since she takes a similar tone with niffty a few episodes later--"tell the big roach how much you love the hotel!"--though this seemed to be more trying to get niffty out of her dissociative state so i don't think it's quite the same thing)?

sorry this ended up so long btw i didn't realise i had this much to say on it :,)

Oh yeah, no. She's uh. She's like that a lot with sinners. Especially when she's first meeting them. It's dialed up to eleven with Baxter because she's trying to act like nothing's wrong and overcompensating, but treating sinners like they're children is normal for her.

The way I see it, Charlie has the same problem with sinners that Sera did, but in the opposite direction: Sera believed they were inherently power-hungry and violent, while Charlie acts like they just never learned how to be good. Basically Nature vs Nurture taken to the extremes. But neither of them actually understands humans or what could drive them to hurt each other, so while Charlie is more sympathetic to them, she doesn't actually know how to help.

Also, no one talks about this, but a lot of Charlie's upbeat enthusiasm and tearful vulnerability ranges from exaggerated to outright faked. I think it's a mix of trying to model desired behaviors and earn people's trust so they'll open up to her, and the fact that she really does not want to open up about her struggles, actually. Almost every time she's been genuinely vulnerable, it's been because someone else encouraged her to talk about it.

Like. When she volunteers vulnerability, it's stuff like tearfully declaring that she loves her friends during trust falls, or crying over a koala falling over at the zoo during a venting circle. When Alastor pushes her about the upcoming extermination targeting the hotel, when Rosie gets her talking about Vaggi being an angel, and in most conversations about hard topics with Vaggi, she actually expresses anger, hurt, and genuine sadness. But she rarely brings any of it up of her own accord.

She is a naturally positive and happy person, but I think she also uses it as a front to hide a lot of negative emotions. Probably in part because she doesn't see the value of them ("I wish I could just stop the feelings and do what I need to do!"), but maybe also because she was one of those kids who'd see her parents fighting and try to combat the anger and hurt with extra positivity. Because if the negative emotions aren't being expressed, you can pretend they don't exist.

I think it is far more likely that he knows how to cook at least basic meals than it is that he can't cook at all.

Personally, I'm of the opinion he was never married, which means he was probably living alone and preparing his own meals for most of his adult life. I am also of the opinion that he probably started out lower middle class or even working class, so I rather doubt he was eating out often enough to avoid ever touching a stove.

But even if you take the stance that he probably was married and never had to cook in his life, his afterlife still threw him straight into an environment where he was probably fending for himself for a notable amount of time, which would include figuring out how to feed himself. So, once again, he was probably living alone and preparing his own meals for at least the first few years.

Wow. Almost every single one of these characters would be in a constant state of high-level anxiety, perpetually grumpy because of all the things they can't/aren't allowed to do while pregnant, actually doing things they shouldn't do while pregnant, or saying, "Oh fuck this" and seeking an abortion.

Bold of you to assume I am less biased, lol.

That said, I think the answer is yes, and I think I can offer reasonably unbiased evidence to support this. Because if Alastor wanted Vox dead, or was even just apathetic to his survival, he would have gotten rid of him himself decades ago. If his death would make him happy, he would have gotten rid of him decades ago.

Alastor cares very much about his reputation, and the reputation he wants is to be feared. And every possible argument for why he keeps Vox around can be countered with, "Nothing says no one is safe like the ruthless elimination of someone you used to be publicly close with". There is no scenario in which the benefits of removing him don't greatly outweigh the benefits of keeping him around. Which means the only thing keeping Vox safe is Alastor's own desire to have him in his life.

Even in the S2 finale, after weeks of captivity and extensive public humiliation, when Alastor has every reason to decide Vox has outlived his usefulness and is actively threatening to put him on his broadcast, he is... not putting a whole lot of effort into hurting him. He forces him back into a more manageable form, definitively gets the upper hand, even gets physically on top of him while Vox makes exactly no effort to fight back for a full fifteen seconds.

And he uses this massive window of time to tear wires apart and smack Vox in the face with so little force that it doesn't even hurt him. And Vox only responds by flipping him off.

Alastor does seem like he's about to do some real damage just before Shok.wav arrives, but he only goes for it after Vox is properly reacting to him again. Almost like he was giving him a chance to recover. And when Shok.wav does appear, the very first thing he does, before any other reaction, is let go of Vox.

If that had been a mutual threat, Alastor would have been essentially giving him a chance to escape while making no immediate attempt to get to safety himself. His pause is meant to be a humorous "it's right behind me" moment, but it's also a moment that could have been accomplished without him releasing Vox. In-universe, releasing him is his instinctive reaction.

If Alastor is putting this little effort into getting rid of him, when it would do wonders to restore his reputation and he has more reason than ever to want him gone, he does not want him gone.

So yes, I think Alastor would care if Vox died. He would not be happy about it. He would not think it's about time. He would not shrug and move on with his life.

For better or worse, Vox has been a constant presence during most of Alastor's time in Hell, and more than half of his total existence, and he's been a constant because Alastor allowed him to be. Having him gone for good would be more than just losing him; it would be losing control over this element of his life he's kept around entirely of his own volition for decades. It would be a moment of abject helplessness, and I don't think Alastor would handle helplessness very well.