After being on here for years and having an Ao3 even longer than that, I have finally added a link to my profile! Feel free to look around, or get started with one of the links below:
General Stuff
SkyStar but they're cats
TFP MegaStar have a bad time in the SG universe
- Includes official SG MegaStar prequel, written by @bairdcrevan
Domestic G1 MegaProwl
Erotica
Series of SkyStar BDSM
SkyStar but they met during the war (enemies as lovers)
SkyStar but Skyfire has spines on his spike
Cowritten with @grayseeker
SkyStar being bad at humaning (holoforms)
SkyStar with (Skyfire's) parents
New
G1 Prowl recovering from a head injury
(Also, I do art sometimes! Check out #my art for bits of drawings and some minor 3D modeling experiments).
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Today on touching media I know nothing about, a non-post-apocalyptic setting fan watches Fallout (only the first two episodes, because these are an hour long each).
Episode 1.
Oh good, the president of the USA is missing. Starting out strong.
I got distracted by the horse's name being Sugarfoot and had to back up twenty seconds to catch the conversation. Starting out strong.
Yes, put the kids in front of the TV so they can watch the apocalypse happen in real time. The Challenger all over again (actually, the TV is black and white, what year is this? Has the Challenger happened yet?)
That. Was a white flash. That. Was a nuclear bomb. That. Is a mushroom cloud. And that is the shockwave.
That. Is a lot of bombs.
(Chocolate break while my heartrate returns to normal. Also, the Challenger happened in 1986, so TV was in color by then).
Oh, 219 years later, we don't care if any of those people survived, okay then. Hi Lucy.
"My reproductive organs are intact."
I'm sorry, what. Why is that relevant.
Why does this look like a wedding. Did I miss something? (On backing up, I may have missed something. Is this "try and yield" thing a breeding thing? Is that why the organs are relevant?)
Aww, they're partners. That's sweet. I'm sure nothing bad is going to happen to the blond.
This is the most ominous wedding I have ever seen. This feels like people are going to be murdered.
"In exchange, we offer you a breeder."
You know, I was being facetious about the breeding thing.
"Do you have a name?"
Why is that how you worded that?
"So what's your sperm count?"
Holy dehumanization. Wow.
I know that's a grain silo behind the guy talking, but it looks very penile (oh, the guy talking is Lucy's father. Okay then).
Ominous glimpse of tunnels for no apparent reason. I'm sure that's fine.
Should I be concerned about those scars on Monty's back? They don't look random.
Oh. That's a body. I think I should be concerned about Monty's scars (does Fallout have zombies? Or I guess they'd probably be mutants because of the radiation. I know nothing).
I know nothing except that Monty has a lot of scars that look kinda less like scars and more like healing wounds, and I am Concerned (oh hey, I know that clicking sound! That's a Geiger counter. And Monty is setting it off. He is radioactive. And a bad guy, apparently).
We are hitting people in the face with glass now, so I'm going to stop looking at the screen (I don't even have to look to know she just pulled out the knife, you don't do that. Was basic first aid not among the many things you learned? Never mind, this is their first aid, this is the future and it's based on a video game, they have healing items).
Something bad happened to the blond. I'm just gonna. Look away for a minute. Again.
And They're All Dead. Probably. Maybe they got far enough away from the bomb in time (I should probably know some names by now, but I literally only know Lucy. And Monty, but he's no longer with us).
And now we have a different group of people whose names I will not learn and who have a high chance of dying in the next 20 minutes. Hi Maximus (it's going to be hilarious if I only learn the names that get presented to me on title cards).
High-tech steampunk airship, nice. I keep forgetting this is the future.
I'm sure nothing bad is going to happen to Maximus' friend.
What the holy fuck happened to that guy's foot? I think that was Maximus' friend, but you know what, I'm not going back to check! No thank you!
Oh, some of Lucy's people are alive. I can't tell if her partner is one of them.
Hey, I have learned some names! Norm is Lucy's brother, and the other guy is... Chet? Chad? Soon to be deceased? Maybe he's just not relevant.
That. Is a skull. And those are bones. And petrified bodies, presumably.
Okay, so that was Maximus' friend whose foot was. Injured. Can't decide if Maximus actually did it or not. Feels like I'm supposed to think he did it.
Oh hey, I know who this guy is (I have absolutely no idea who this guy is, I've just seen pictures of him floating around. Maybe he's the guy from the prologue. For now, I guess he's just "the Ghoul". Not gonna be hard to remember that).
Episode 2.
I am going to pretend I never saw that.
Four minutes of relatively peaceful screentime devoted to raising this dog. Four minutes. I have only seen one episode and I'm already mistrustful of such a long period without Horrors (ah, there we go).
Oh wait. Maximus was sent after a guy with a canine companion. I guess this is the guy.
I have never thought about what a tumbleweed must look like to someone who's lived in an artificial environment their whole life. Even the plants have dead roaming around.
I hate the way the jaunty tune fades into an ominous rumble and then casually returns to being jaunty. And that is a compliment, because It is deeply unsettling.
I. Hate. That. Cockroach. That is not a compliment.
Of all the things to survive two hundred years into the future. It's Spam. That checks out.
How did Maximus and the Knight just happen to end up this close to their target when they were meant to search somewhere else? I think I missed something again.
This Knight has no self-preservation instinct. Dead because he couldn't keep his mouth shut for five minutes.
"Had an aunt as well, she got killed there once."
Oh, well, as long as it was only once.
Are there any decent humans in this world. Why does everyone just hate everyone. How does humanity last 200 years without cooperation. Why do post-apocalyptic worlds always do this.
How does the doctor know so much about the Vaults? Did that chip he injected into his neck give him mind reading abilities or something? (I guess we're never gonna know, my money's on him dying in the next five minutes. Who gave the Ghoul explosive bullets).
Oh good, we've got all the main characters in one place. And the doctor survived past the five minute mark.
"This could maybe work."
"Do you really mean that?"
I don't think she does.
The doctor survived a whole ten minutes longer than I expected. Still not gonna find out how he knows any of what he knows, though. Not from him, anyway. I wonder what the next episode is called.
just because you mentioned the weight thing again, i'm curious what you think about how many redesigns are floating around where people make specifically Vox fat/fatter out of all the characters. that's always been so fascinating to me. imo it's the sleazy business man stereotype seeping in and clouding how people see his character and it kind of amazes me with how much it contradicts his canon character. i get wanting more variety in body types in the show, but Vox is probably one of the last people i'd do that with (alongside the other Vees for sure)
i think you pointed out before how the artstyle conveys skinny, even when everyone has small waists, but even visuals aside. he's not a typical desk ceo, he's the front facing man of voxtek. he's constantly on air, he's the face. Vox not caring about being appealing to the general public is as crazy imo as hcing Angel as not caring. they're different kinds of actors, but they're part of the same company and environment
and that's not even mentioning how Vel is openly promoting toxic diet culture in advertisements, or how Val talks about his actors/dancers (or the eating disorder Val has lets be fr)
so whenever i see someone keeping all the characters weights the same and then making Vox heaver i always end up feeling like the artist hasn't actually given his character any thought. they just see evil ceo and immediately roll out the fat stereotype
Because there is a lot of discourse in art communities about the "right" way to redesign characters, I just want to preface this by saying I take a "you do you" mentality with most redesigns. Some artists want their designs to reflect the character's personality, others prioritize a story or environment, and some just want to draw what appeals to them (some do all of the above, because they all have value). It's rather elitist to argue that you have to do it a certain way or it's a bad redesign, and I'm not into gatekeeping fun or self-expression.
To me, the actual choices made by the artist are more important than their design philosophy. Because no matter how you approach your redesigns, you can fall into stereotypes.
So with that being said, if a personality-focused artist redesigns a large cast of characters and only makes one of them heavier than they are in canon, I am going to question which traits they are associating with fatness (especially if they're also making some characters thinner than they are canonically). If a context-focused artist does it, I am going to question a design that doesn't make sense for the character's circumstances. And if an aesthetics-focused artist does it, I'm probably going to assume they find fatness ugly (again, especially if they're also making characters they like thinner).
(It should go without saying that any body type can have any personality trait. Unfortunately, many fatphobic stereotypes necessitate that it be said, so there you go).
With Vox specifically, looking at his overall character, I feel like he would have a very complicated relationship with his weight. On one hand, he lived through the Great Depression, and his concern over Valentino not eating shows he knows there's a point where health should come first. He also freely admits to wanting greasy food in the drawing video, so it doesn't seem like he has negative associations with certain foods (or he just doesn't care if something is "unhealthy").
On the other hand, he is in an environment that promotes disordered eating, he is one of only two characters so far depicted as underweight, his partner openly judges him for what he eats, and they're implied to fight about food being "good" or "bad" (Val: "[Sodas] are bad for you." Vox: "Val, I'm not fighting with you."). Said partner also makes a point of mentioning (albeit not to his face) that Vox doesn't meet his normal aesthetic standards for a sexual partner. During a scathing anecdote about a "fat bisexual". I mean...
Valentino might care about Vox, but he is not going to accept a heavier partner, and it would probably be a dealbreaker for him. And given Vox's assorted issues with abandonment and public image, that is not a fight he would put effort into winning. Maybe he won't let Val control what he eats, but if Val pesters him enough about his weight, he's going to lose some weight. That's like. Barely subtext to me.
(I actually got a question on my post about Vox's weight asking if Val prefers skinny partners. At the time I didn't remember him expressing a body type preference for men since we mostly see him hitting on women, but having since revisited the drawing video: He absolutely does. And there is a high likelihood that he contributes to whatever issues Vox has with his own weight).
Applying all of this to redesigns, if it's just an artist who wants to draw their favorite character a certain way, or they're redesigning the entire cast based on what they find aesthetically pleasing and all of them have different body types, I'm just gonna leave them to it. Not every redesign has to make sense based on canon.
If the artist intends for it to make sense, however, I do not think Vox is the right character to depict that way. Even if he had a naturally heavy build, and even if he was comfortable at that weight, he'd be doing everything in his power to stay as small as possible, because his environment, his public image, and his partner demand it. You have to pretty much change the entire context he exists in for it to make sense (which, in fairness, might actually be the case in some AUs).
(Fun fact, I almost changed up the vest on my fem!Vox design, because I feel like seeing Valentino with "more attractive" women all the time would bother her more than it does her canon counterpart, and horizontal stripes supposedly make people look wider. Turns out that's a myth and they actually create the opposite illusion, which is exactly what I wanted. So I kept them).
@static-alice-sideblog I was going to reply to this directly, but I hit the character limit. And I have no shame, so I'm just gonna make the true depths of my hyperfixation everyone's problem.
So I have actually done a lot of math regarding Vox's energy needs! Because I wanted to know if his having a TV for a head would mean he needs more or less food (I don't remember what led me down that rabbit hole, but it was probably something to do with sharks and endothermy). And I will freely admit that all of that math could be wrong, because electricity is measured in several different ways and there is no "converting calories to electrical energy made simple" guide, so I'm never sure if I'm converting the right numbers.
I definitely believe that Vox has higher overall caloric needs, because as far as I can determine, a small LED TV would use (very) approximately 1000 calories a day (presumably he uses less energy while sleeping, so more exact numbers would depend on average amount of sleep per night and the actual dimensions of his screen). So that's 2-4 times what an organic brain would use per day, and if we assume his head uses proportionately the same amount of energy compared to his body as a human brain does, that gives us 4-5000 calories a day (given he's around 7 feet tall and active, that's plausible as an estimate. Maybe a little low, but comparable to a professional basketball player).
I have absolutely no idea how to calculate "energy required to convert a physical form into electricity", but since he's just changing forms, not expelling energy, I would assume it doesn't take a whole lot out of him. Moving around that way might, but I'm not sure how to calculate that either. Though considering the whole point of an electrical grid is to move electricity around, he probably expends more energy on his little jumps through open air than he does on long-distance travel.
If I'm converting the right numbers, it actually seems like day to day use of his powers would take a negligible amount of energy; the electricity needed to kill a human would only be a few calories per second, and even if we assume a Sinner can handle far more than a human, Vox isn't usually aiming to kill anyway (at least not through electrocution alone). And his electrical displays are presumably more flashy than dangerous, because it would be a waste of energy if he was putting too much real power into them.
He almost certainly has pretty high caloric needs, but as far as I can determine, those needs are going to be a result of his size, activity level, and having a TV for a head, not his powers. And considering almost every demon in the crowd during VOX POPULI is his size or larger, I would guess his needs are only high by human standards, and closer to the low end of average for a Sinner.
But even if his powers did require a substantial amount of energy, all of this is probably irrelevant! Because the magic system in Hazbin does not seem to be "physical energy = magical energy". At very least, that isn't the case for angels, because Adam and Lucifer have no trouble channeling very high amounts of energy. One could argue Sinners do use that system, and that's why the average Sinner doesn't have much power to speak of, but Overlords explicitly derive power from others. So it would make far more sense if Vox was paying the energy cost of his powers with his owned souls and whatever bonus he's getting from his approval ratings, not his own body.
why do you think so many sinners change their names in Hell? I think that the writers mentioned that it's because they don't want association with their human lives (don't quote me on this though, it's one of those things that was Possibly Said In A Stream At Some Point). But even so, shouldn't there be a lot more sinners who don't care about changing their names? i think the only sinner we've seen who kept their old name is Alastor.
Furthermore, wouldn't popular/well-known figures like Velvette or Vox be recognized (particularly ones like Velvette, since she looks really human)? And since they're so recognizable, what would be even the point in trying to move on from their human lives if there will always be some obnoxious sinner calling them by their old names who either doesn't know or doesn't care about Hell Culture™️? it just seems very inconvenient especially if you were well-known in life, so what would make changing names worth the trouble?
and what about Vox specifically? I imagine that after his whole "dying in an abandoned aquarium with a bunch of his followers" thing would make headlines in the living world, and if he wasn't known throughout the entire country already, he probably would be just because of all the sudden deaths. Either way, I'm sure the average person who lived after the 50s would be aware of his existence, even if they've never seen his programs. How much do you think all the possible in-universe controversy surrounding Vox & the cult's deaths would affect Vox's reputation in Hell? Like, even if you ignore the whole "pointing the camera at morbid shit" thing that seems to have been a major aspect of Vox's shows which I doubt was appreciated by all the viewers, the deaths themselves would definitely be controversial, since it'd probably be hard to tell if they were deliberate mass-suicide or not. Due to this, there's probably plenty of recently-fallen sinners that would be pretty wary of Vox once they realize that he's the Vincent Whittman.
(sorry this got so long and kinda drifted off-topic, there's just so many unanswered questions about sinners' relations with their human lives and I'm curious to hear your thoughts on it! No pressure if you're not too interested in all the details tho haha)
I mean. If I could go by Dark Star IRL, I would do it without a second thought, lol. Anytime someone refers to me by some variation of my username, I am happy. Like, that's me they're talking about. That is My Name. I chose it myself.
Anytime someone refers to me by my legal name IRL, I feel like someone just walked across my grave. Never found a different human name I would be comfortable going by, either (I did know someone a few years back who called me Cat, and that didn't bother me. But that's like, a pet name vs a legal name).
I would guess for a lot of Sinners, it's something like that. They didn't like their human names, or they didn't mind but always liked something else better, and given the opportunity to go by something different, they took it. It's not like they need to go through some bureaucratic process to change it, so it's no more troublesome than introducing themselves with their preferred name.
As a cultural thing, these are human souls raised with human beliefs, so I like to headcanon that it originated from attempts to protect their souls from Overlords. In some cultures, folklore warns against giving your true name to supernatural beings because it gives them power over you. I would imagine for a lot of people raised in those cultures, arriving in Hell with beings who could literally own their souls pushed them to embrace the protective measures they were taught, even if they didn't believe such things in life, simply because they didn't know what else to do. So they started going by aliases and warning others to do the same, and it just kind of stuck as a cultural thing because people liked being free to change their names if they wanted to.
(I also like to headcanon that soul deals do, in fact, require a Sinner's human name to be valid, whether signed or given verbally. Alastor's deal with Rosie makes me doubt canon does it that way, but I like the idea that selling one's literal soul takes a little more than just shaking hands).
As for being recognized: when a Sinner arrives in Hell, they are arriving to a world where almost everyone died long before they were even born, never mind famous. And for the majority of human history, even the most famous people would only be known by those who lived in their general geographical location. So Sinner culture would have developed under circumstances where an individual was statistically unlikely to ever knowingly meet anyone who'd so much as heard of them in life. They could have absolutely abandoned their human lives entirely if they wanted to. And even with the internet, there are billions of people on this planet, and the average person is only known in their communities. It's a very tiny minority who would be recognized, even if they wanted to be.
For Vox, no matter the impact his life and death had on the living world, basically no one in Hell would have ever heard of Vincent Whittman when he arrived, and everyone would have been far more interested in what he was than who he was (basically no one in Hell would have known what a TV was either, at that point). We don't know when he changed his name, but we do know it was within a few years of arriving, because Alastor calls him Vox in the bar flashback (I think there's official merch that says VoxTek was founded in 1952, so it might have been within a few months of arriving. Or weeks. Or immediately after he learned a new name was an option).
And to most newly arrived Sinners (who would not have ever heard of Vincent Whittman, because the average person is neither US American nor a television historian), Vox is all he'd be. There would be people over the years who had heard of him and knew how he died, and they'd be able to figure out from the "Trust us" motto that the TV-headed guy who'd been around since the 50s and ran a tech/entertainment business was the same person. But Vox had not only made a name for himself within a few years of arriving, he and Alastor (who intentionally cultivated a fearsome reputation for himself) were a publicly known and loved duo before their falling out.
If Vox could get people loving one of the most terrifying Overlords, he would have had no trouble whatsoever winning over anyone who knew who he'd been in life. Hell is full of scary, dangerous people, and he was way less scary than his peers (or way more scary, depending on how you look at it. Considering the kind of influence he wielded). And even if there were a few holdouts, they wouldn't have been enough to sway public opinion.
Plus, y'know. Hypnosis. I don't think he uses it nearly as often as some fans assume, because he wouldn't be fussing at the other Vees about their public image if he was using it to maintain their reputation (and they never point out that he could do that, either, which suggests that he doesn't), but it is a tool in his arsenal. Hard to win a PR campaign against someone who can manipulate opinions with a couple seconds of eye contact through a screen.
The absolute funniest thing to me about autistic!Vox headcanons is that when I first saw them, I thought people were focusing too much on the sharks. Like, okay, he likes sharks. But if you’d asked me then, I’d have said he was one of the most obviously neurotypical characters in the show.
Then it occurred to me that standing on furniture is. Not really neurotypical behavior. So I went back with a fresh perspective and you know what, he definitely has a few quirks that stood out from the rest of the cast. Time to start looking for patterns.
Yeah, so turns out, he’s one of the most obviously neurodivergent characters in the show. And I have no explanation for how I drew exactly the opposite conclusion beyond my brain going, “this is all perfectly normal behavior and requires no further thought”. Except I myself am AuDHD, so if my brain is glossing over a character as “normal”, that’s. Probably an indicator that they’re not neurotypical. So.
Anyway, I have never seen a single post where anyone goes into any detail about his autistic traits, so I’m going to do that now! You’re welcome.
Let’s start with the sensory processing differences, because I’ve already waxed poetic about Vox being a tactile seeker. The really short version is that he touches everything he can get his hands on, up to and including people, because his nervous system needs more tactile input to be satisfied.
He’s also a vestibular seeker, which refers to movement that engages his sense of balance and spacial awareness. He spins, he jumps, he climbs (or jumps) onto furniture, and sometimes he does things like walk sideways and hop backwards - up stairs. “Standing” with his wires also counts, since the addition of vertical movement gives the vestibular system more to process. Regardless of what he’s doing, he never seems to get dizzy, which is typical of vestibular seekers.
On the other side of the coin we have sensory aversions, which Vox doesn’t explicitly demonstrate. But the rooms where he spends most of his time are markedly different from the rest of Vee Tower: big open spaces with low lighting and cool colors, or else random grids of solid red or blue-white panels. There’s no clutter, minimal decoration, and most of the rooms have aquarium glass instead of windows.
He’s not avoiding visual stimuli, by any means, but he does seem to prefer visually quiet environments; not necessarily dark, but with few patterns and little movement apart from whatever he’s focused on. There could be a few reasons for this, but since he doesn’t seem to have a problem with any specific form of visual stimulus, it’s probably more an issue of how much information he can process at one time.
Vox also limits how much visual input he receives during conversations. He's continually turning his back on and moving behind people while he's talking, and when he does face them, his eye contact is sporadic; sometimes it's unrelenting, other times he's glancing away every few words. Conversely, when someone else is speaking, he generally (though not always) turns towards them and makes fairly steady eye contact.
Again, there are a few possible explanations for this. But given that Vox is also someone who talks with his hands (which can help to organize thoughts and maintain fluent speech), and he can make eye contact just fine when he’s not the one speaking, we can actually narrow it down to a likely answer: neurotypical speech simply takes more cognitive resources than he has available.
Talking to people takes a lot of mental coordination. You’re organizing your thoughts, forming them into words, paying attention to the other person's nonverbal language, processing the sensory input from said language, converting that input into meaning, and monitoring your own behavior, and you’re doing it all in real time. And that’s just the act of talking. If you can’t do all of it at once, something has to give, and the only non-essential part of the process is looking at people.
Understanding other peoples’ speech takes a lot of cognitive work too, but it also uses different parts of the brain. So while some autistic people struggle to make eye contact at any point during a conversation, others can do so if they find one skill or the other easier. Rather ironically, Vox appears to have a harder time speaking than listening.
On the topic of nonverbal language, autistic people tend not to use gestures the same way as allistics. Some use fewer, some use more, and they don't always serve a communicative purpose (that is, they aren’t meant to convey information). Vox very much uses more, and while some of them mimic allistic communication, many don't. They might help him communicate (again, talking with his hands), but they’re often meaningless when matched with what he’s actually saying.
Additionally, some autistic gestures are actually stims (aka self-stimulatory behaviors), and Vox seems to have at least a few of those. The most common is pressing his palms together and/or interlacing his fingers, but other repeated movements include waving his hands, moving them in circles, and tapping his fingers. All of these are general-purpose and can occur at any time, though he tends not to use them in front of a crowd.
He also has what appear to be primarily self-soothing behaviors: he spends a lot of time adjusting his lapels or bowtie when he's trying to compose himself, whether because he’s irritated, flustered, or just in an especially good mood. If he's more on edge he might cross his arms instead, or outright hug himself if he's excited, and he does something similar by dejectedly holding one arm when Alastor rejects his offer (crossing one's arms is a common action, but that doesn’t make it any less of a pattern. Especially given how Vox is with touch in general).
When it comes to other people, Vox obviously has issues with appropriate social touch and respecting personal space, which could be attributed to his tactile seeking behaviors. It could also be a sign of low empathy; he likes touch and physical closeness, and either doesn’t realize or doesn’t care that others might not share in that enjoyment (considering his reaction to Alastor calling him out on it, my money is on him not realizing). Either way, he definitely missed the signs that Alastor was merely tolerating it, and he never seems to notice other people reacting when he touches them (though Alastor, specifically, is so theatrical about disliking touch that if Vox had ever seen him physically interact with anyone, it wouldn’t have been unreasonable to assume that a lack of such a reaction meant it was fine when he did it).
His attitude towards touch aside, Vox does generally appear to have relatively low emotional empathy. Beyond irritation, he isn't emotionally affected by Velvette's studio being wrecked or Valentino's upset over Angel leaving, and even before Alastor gets into his head, it’s implied that he regularly acts without consideration for either of them (such as leaving Velvette behind when he electroports, which seems to be a common occurrence). And that’s his behavior towards people he likes.
On the other hand, he can understand other people’s thoughts and feelings to some extent, even if he mostly uses that knowledge to hurt and manipulate them. So he is capable of cognitive empathy, and probably pretty good at it; he’s not infallible, especially if he’s not given anything to work with, but he can figure people out.
He also demonstrates compassionate empathy (taking action to help others) on multiple occasions: he answers Velvette's summons despite not wanting to deal with Valentino, pays attention to what Val is saying, and offers him something to make him feel better. He leaves out a pen and paper so Val can draw during the Take Over Heaven presentation and gets all of his requested foods "just in case". He's willing to put himself in harm's way to protect the other two. Even if it’s a matter of practicality from his perspective, it’s still a form of caring, and comes from a place of genuine affection.
That being said, Vox has a friend circle of two. He has gotten close to three people in seventy years (and he's known Valentino for around fifty of those years, so it's not just because Alastor traumatized him). He also has a room dedicated entirely to hiding away from the world with his sharks and watching spying on people through screens instead of talking to anyone.
For all that he loves performing and being the center of attention, he doesn't show much desire for one-on-one social interaction. He certainly wants the option, and does enjoy the company of those he's close to, but he also wants to be left alone. And even when he doesn't want to be alone, spending time with someone doesn't mean interacting with them directly. Sometimes it looks like having tea together while they work on separate tasks.
When he does interact directly with people, whether through desire or necessity, Vox is a "take the topic and run with it at full speed until forced to stop" type of guy. He can literally have entire conversations all by himself: when he calls Charlie to "invite" her to his party, she only speaks when she realizes who's calling and right before he hangs up. In the flashback, Vox does all of the talking for nearly a full minute while Alastor makes two remarks (one of which is permission for Vox to keep going). He can have a proper back and forth exchange, and sometimes even wants to (he's disappointed when Alastor refuses to engage with him after surrendering), but his conversations do tend to be one-sided.
I could keep going (full disclosure: I consider everything I’ve said so far to be a general overview). But this is getting long, so I want to wrap up by saying that fictional characters are not diagnosable. Buuut Vox does legitimately meet the behavioral criteria.
He has difficulties with social-emotional reciprocity (the “back and forth” of social interactions, empathy and emotional responsiveness, approach to communication, etc).
He has differences in nonverbal communication.
He has difficulties with developing, maintaining, and understanding relationships (which includes a lack of interest in doing so).
He has “repetitive or stereotyped movements, use of objects, or speech”, aka stimming.
He has sensory processing differences.
He has “highly restricted, fixated interests that are abnormal in intensity or focus” (I don’t need to get into the sharks. Everybody knows about the sharks).
The first three are all required. The latter three come from a cluster of four traits where only two are required. The only trait out of the seven he hasn’t definitively demonstrated is “insistence on sameness, inflexible adherence to routines, or ritualized patterns”. So like.
As headcanons go, you don’t get much closer to canon. He could literally be diagnosable in-universe.
#the biggest thing i noticed is the overstimulation #and when he gets overstimulated he lashes out impulsively. gets loud. gets violent
#he also has these big emotions. he cries when he's angry and upset #i've never more related to those big emotions and not being able to communicate them productively
#and while i agree that dx'd fictional character is not something i wanna do this headcanon is very dear to me #like finally an adjacent autistic character that i relate with #yeah he's a dead serial killer and capitalist but idk good doctor could never etc etc
!!!!!
@ op (and great tags from prev!!!) i'm so glad you made this post because, ever since someone made a delightful compilation of Vox spinning himself and other people, i've thought a lot about how that could be a helpful+unconscious form of stimulation for him, but i hadn't connected that to neurodivergency.
it was hilarious that the week i saw this post, i'd also just started my own notes of "okay let's just see what evidence there is for Vox being autistic because he seems pretty neurotypical to me. neurotypical people can have a favorite animal and favorite pet, so that can't be the only reason if i'm going to be onboard with this idea."
and then i stopped taking notes because i was like ''oh. okay. never mind'' SFQJBQSKSFQKS
(putting the rest under a cut because i ramble a bit; this was originally in the tags but, with seemingly each day lol, i kept adding more, and then it got concerningly close to the 30 tag maximum, where tumblr just deletes tags without notifying you sfqkkqbqs. so i'm playing it safe and actually putting it in the body of the post. ...OKAY I'M VERY GLAD I MOVED OUT OF THE TAGS LOL)
like you had here, one of the biggest points in my own notes was his limited amount of friends both in life and afterlife, including his original seeming lack of interest in having close connections in the first place (which changed with Alastor and the Vees, even if he still has an extremely limited circle and seems mostly okay or okay-ish with that).
literally in the commentary for s1 ep2, there's a bit where the creators are like ~''he has just two friends and a dog. thing. you'll see in season two.''
just for anyone unaware and to clarify accidental implications the above comments of mine might have: being disinterested in socializing or personal connections is NOT a defining feature of everyone who's autistic. many really want friends and can have lowered self-esteem and other issues if they're unable to form meaningful friendships.
(because i realize the above description may sound detached or unempathetically clinical, i'm talking about my type of autism with this description of autists who "really want friends"; i've been incredibly lucky to find great people who are on or adjacent to the spectrum, making enjoyable connection a lot easier than otherwise.)
it's just important info to be aware of in these discussions that there ARE many autistic individuals who don't have a strong inclination to form friendships and who can be pretty content pursuing their interests on their own.
(here's an article discussing different "types" or presentations of autism, with some discussion on autists who aim for social connections versus those who are fine going through life more solo. the article is mainly about how autism often can present differently between men and women, but it's also about sexism, stereotypes, and unhelpful psychological tradition in diagnosing autism, while discussing alternate ways to describe and recognize it.)
but getting back to the original topic of Vox lol: i also feel as if i should clarify what i mean by socializing and social connections, just in case his being outwardly outgoing and wanting to be a leader and well-known public figure makes the statements in this reblog and the original post seem contradictory. (the original post did a great job, i think, of separating the concepts between crowdwork and one-on-one interactions, but just to be even more clear, to partially make this post into Sort Of Autism 101 With Vox As A Case Study lol)
personal connections are very different from speaking in front of people. you might be familiar with the idea of feeling alone even though you interact with many people or are surrounded by people. it's a concept adjacent to that: do you have connections of personal value, or are you keeping everyone at a distance?
plus, being able to speak in front of an audience or give a presentation is a different skill than holding a one-on-one interaction. for the former, you control everything (in most cases) and memorizing what you want to say can often even be an asset rather being seen as unnatural or a hindrance. with the latter -- personal conversations -- you need to constantly take in new information and adjust. these ways of connecting with people are two different skills, and two very different interests. (Vox seems good at both of these, but, from his having only two friends, he doesn't seem to usually connect with people outside of "business only" interactions.")
basically, the point of the last section is to explain "being charismatic and good at reading people is not the same as being extraverted or a social person." Vox uses his ability to speak to crowds and read people to advance his goals, but spending time in settings intended for socializing -- like clubs or other gathering places -- doesn't seem to be a preference for his free time.
to switch topics again, my one disagreement on the original post could be about Vox's pacifying behaviors. i suppose it can be a thing of degree and frequency like much about autism and neurodivergency in general, but neurotypicals use a lot of pacifying behaviors too.
i'm not an expert on this, so idk the difference in degree and frequency (just iirc that frequent self-harming pacifying behaviors increase the odds that someone may be ND, especially if the behaviors aren't intended as self-harm. but again -- i'm not an expert), but ye, in regards to that being an indicator of autism, that's my one objection (that i might change my mind about) on this awesome post 🙌
You are correct! Everyone self-soothes, and the (visible) difference between autistic and neurotypical people is largely one of frequency and intensity. There is also an internal difference in that neurotypical self-soothing is usually about cognitive/emotional regulation, and is most common while relaxing or dealing with something stressful. Autistic people also self-sooth as emotional regulation, but it can be caused by both negative and positive experiences ("happy stimming"), and is also common with sensory overwhelm or understimulation (which is why NT self-soothing strategies don't always work for autistic people. Mindfulness does not help me when the source of the problem is sensory, it just makes me want to crawl out of my skin).
I do question whether self-harmful soothing is, in fact, more common in neurodivergent populations, or if neurotypical self-harmful behaviors are just more subtle and normalized. I can't find any statistics for the prevalence of self-harmful stims in autism, but for nail biting I'm seeing estimates of 20-30% of the general population. And I would consider that a self-harmful stress response.
Anyway, you are open to changing your mind about Vox's self-soothing being autistic in nature, so allow me to try and change it!
All of my observations about his behavior in this post were made while comparing him to other characters (yes, that means I spent many scenes just watching how much eye contact they were making during conversations). The specific behaviors I listed as self-soothing were ones I noticed occurring entirely in an emotional context, as a normal thing, with a clear sensory component, and rarely exhibited by other characters in similar situations.
For example, several characters hug themselves when they're upset, but not usually when they're excited. Not only does Vox frequently hug/hold himself when he's excited, this is a form of deep pressure stimulation, which actively influences the nervous system to shift the body into a more relaxed state. In other words, self-soothing.
I also included fussing with his bowtie and lapels as a self-soothing behavior because, unlike some generalized stims like tapping his fingers, he seems to do it specifically when he's emotionally off-kilter. And more specifically, when he's trying to push aside or rein in some emotion (including one instance where Alastor is goading him, and he visibly stops, takes a breath, and sits down while adjusting his tie. A clear moment of intentional self-soothing).
And the reason I classify it as a possible sign of autism: where other characters typically only exhibit self-soothing behaviors when they're distressed (or really excited, in Charlie's case), he is doing it constantly. Irritated? Gleeful? Flustered? Doesn't matter what or how intense the emotion is, if he needs to settle down or stay focused (in other words, if he needs to emotionally regulate), his hands are on his clothes.
In short, as compared to those around him, Vox exhibits both visible self-soothing behaviors under circumstances where others don't need them, and a specific behavior that occurs both more frequently and in a wider range of situations than specific behaviors demonstrated by others (Alastor pulling on his hair and Angel hugging himself are both specific and repeated behaviors, but limited to moments of distress).
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There is currently a huge sale on Steam. Go grab a game if you are curious!
Fallout 4 is the one with the best environment and gameplay, as well as arguably the very best Companion in the franchise (Nick Valentine, the Synth Detective). However, its writing is criticised for being more toothless than previous entries, because it introduces powerful moral queries and then ignores them.
Fallout New Vegas has by far the best writing, with actually thoughtful quests and some of the most iconic dialogue ever seen in videogames (you know the "I survived because the fire etc etc" quote? Yeah, it's from New Vegas). However, it's plagued by a ton of technical issues which can make the gameplay a pain in the ass. Also the environment sucks, 90% of everything is brown.
Fallout 3 is the one with the best atmosphere. The writing is nowhere near as good as new vegas, and the gameplay is nowhere near as good as 4, but it does an excellent job introducing people to the world of Fallout and really making you feel that post-Apocalyptic vibes. However, it's essential that you get the Game Of The Year edition, because its DLC fixed the stupidest ending I've ever seen and made it good. Also this is the only modern Fallout game where the Companions are not immortal, so take five minutes to download a mod to keep them safe.
I don't know if this happens to you too but every so often I see a post that's like "well I don't read fanfiction for it to be like canon" and like honestly I don't get it, you liked a story and its characters and it's setting etc. etc. and then you go read fanfiction of those characters in that universe hoping that they're... different characters in a different universe???? Like I must be missing something here
I mean, if you want to get technical, shipfic with non-canon pairings is "not like canon". Keeping a dead character alive or killing off a different one in their place is "not like canon". Redeeming a character who was exclusively evil in the source material is "not like canon". And that's not even counting popular AU settings (high school, coffee shop, human, omegaverse, etc).
If they're actively hoping the characters are completely different people, I would be a bit confused, because at that point it's like. Why are you reading about these specific characters if they aren't those characters anymore? But generally speaking, I would guess what those readers actually mean is that they prefer exploring AUs and what-ifs over reading something that feels like it could be a continuation of or addition to canon.
Or they liked the characters but not the story. I have definitely been in that position.
You guys ever play a RPG like Fallout, where you are supposed to roleplay your Main Character through the story to its conclusion?
Let's say that there is a character in the game who, for trivial and petty reasons, annoys the shit out of you. Let's say you still intellectually recognise that this character has narrative weight, and that it wouldn't fit your MC's crafted personality to murder them.
So you make a quick save. Then you proceed to paint the walls with their blood. Then you load the save and keep playing the story where Annoying Asshole is still alive.
You get what I mean?
Canon must retain coherent plot points and consistent characterisation and thematic narrative for it to be good. The same way the actual story in the game can't have your MC, whom you have been roleplaying as Good Person, shoot someone in the dick because he was annoying.
But you can do whatever you want in a scenario that you are going to erase with a reload. And you can do whatever you want in a fanfiction.
And yeah, having the characters "do whatever you want" in the fanfiction does mean that they are acting in ways they wouldn't in canon. But it's not meant to be OOC, so much as an exaggeration of their original traits for the sake of satisfaction.
Hello hi! If I may add my two cents to the weight thing. I do agree with everything said about canon vox.
The environment he's in just wouldn't allow it and I do think some people use the "evil ceo" shortcut, especially when it comes to the "redesigns" made by people who don't even like the show and think they can make the designs "better" by i dunno making vox fat and throwing old clothes on him cuz he's "from the 50s" completely misunderstanding his character
However, to me there's smth very special about taking someone as energetic as vox, making him/her (don't ask) fat and keeping the energy, keeping the dancing and the jumping on furniture and whatnot. I don't think many people do that which is a shame :/. Quite often I see an AU with a fat vox with him mellowed out and just not as enthusiastic and something about that irks me a bit.
Vox is a creature that needs to keep moving to live to me and no matter how convoluted the AU gets I need that to be consistent at the very least.
That is an excellent point, and one I would count under "redesigning based on what appeals to the artist". It might not make sense in canon, but! It is fun. And sometimes that's the only thing that matters.
I also fully agree on keeping Vox active no matter what his body type is. I ultimately didn't comment on that because fanon in general tends to make him way less energetic than in canon, and I didn't want to imply that it was just a fatphobia thing. Buuuut it is fatphobic to say that fat people can't be active, or that they're all lazy and clumsy (Vox seems capable of dancing at a professional level, and he does a lot of jumping and spinning. He's going to retain that spatial awareness and skill at any weight, methinks).
I wonder why we never see any of the souls Vox owns? (I mean, maybe Ethan or Katie have their souls owned by him but we don't actually have proof of that IIRC) Presumably he must own some as an Overlord. And yeah, we don't see any of the souls that Overlords like Carmilla or Zestial or Prick or Hatchet or Zeezi, etc, own, but with Vox having had so much focus this past season, I imagine it would have come up.
Believe it or not, we do technically "see" one, and with some regularity. There's a news crawl in S2 x E1 that reads, "This is why I've been saying the Vees should be in charge. Just look at their friendly little faces. I'd trust them with my soul. In fact, I did! That's why I'm forced to write teleprompter speech for the rest of my existence. Hey but twenty dollars was twenty dollars. Am I right?"
The Vees are known to share their employees, of course, but being implicitly a member of the news crew, we can assume that's one of Vox's (there's also a crawl in S2 x E5 that starts to comment on how Vox almost lost to Alastor last time they fought, only to cut off and resume with how Alastor's defeat was inevitable. Which was definitely Vox's doing).
My assumption is that Vox probably owns the news and tech people, along with all the cleaners and maintenance people and so on required to keep a business operational. Maybe not all of them, since we don't know for sure that the Vees do own all of their employees (Baxter is up for debate, for example), but probably most of them.
If it's going to come up, I actually think it would make more sense to do it in S3 than in S2. Because Vox has presumably lost most or all of the power he got from his approval ratings, so now he's limited to what he gets from the souls he owns. And that's assuming his deals with those souls weren't dependent on them working for him specifically, because if he's no longer officially associated with the company that employs them, and the other Vees aren't keeping him on behind the scenes, that could have broken those deals.
The souls he owns weren't relevant in S2, but in S3, they're going to be the difference between him keeping some of his power or almost none of it. And while I don't expect the show to get into it much (because of the runtime if nothing else), I do anticipate getting some nice implications to chew on.
I don't know if this happens to you too but every so often I see a post that's like "well I don't read fanfiction for it to be like canon" and like honestly I don't get it, you liked a story and its characters and it's setting etc. etc. and then you go read fanfiction of those characters in that universe hoping that they're... different characters in a different universe???? Like I must be missing something here
I mean, if you want to get technical, shipfic with non-canon pairings is "not like canon". Keeping a dead character alive or killing off a different one in their place is "not like canon". Redeeming a character who was exclusively evil in the source material is "not like canon". And that's not even counting popular AU settings (high school, coffee shop, human, omegaverse, etc).
If they're actively hoping the characters are completely different people, I would be a bit confused, because at that point it's like. Why are you reading about these specific characters if they aren't those characters anymore? But generally speaking, I would guess what those readers actually mean is that they prefer exploring AUs and what-ifs over reading something that feels like it could be a continuation of or addition to canon.
Or they liked the characters but not the story. I have definitely been in that position.
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just because you mentioned the weight thing again, i'm curious what you think about how many redesigns are floating around where people make specifically Vox fat/fatter out of all the characters. that's always been so fascinating to me. imo it's the sleazy business man stereotype seeping in and clouding how people see his character and it kind of amazes me with how much it contradicts his canon character. i get wanting more variety in body types in the show, but Vox is probably one of the last people i'd do that with (alongside the other Vees for sure)
i think you pointed out before how the artstyle conveys skinny, even when everyone has small waists, but even visuals aside. he's not a typical desk ceo, he's the front facing man of voxtek. he's constantly on air, he's the face. Vox not caring about being appealing to the general public is as crazy imo as hcing Angel as not caring. they're different kinds of actors, but they're part of the same company and environment
and that's not even mentioning how Vel is openly promoting toxic diet culture in advertisements, or how Val talks about his actors/dancers (or the eating disorder Val has lets be fr)
so whenever i see someone keeping all the characters weights the same and then making Vox heaver i always end up feeling like the artist hasn't actually given his character any thought. they just see evil ceo and immediately roll out the fat stereotype
Because there is a lot of discourse in art communities about the "right" way to redesign characters, I just want to preface this by saying I take a "you do you" mentality with most redesigns. Some artists want their designs to reflect the character's personality, others prioritize a story or environment, and some just want to draw what appeals to them (some do all of the above, because they all have value). It's rather elitist to argue that you have to do it a certain way or it's a bad redesign, and I'm not into gatekeeping fun or self-expression.
To me, the actual choices made by the artist are more important than their design philosophy. Because no matter how you approach your redesigns, you can fall into stereotypes.
So with that being said, if a personality-focused artist redesigns a large cast of characters and only makes one of them heavier than they are in canon, I am going to question which traits they are associating with fatness (especially if they're also making some characters thinner than they are canonically). If a context-focused artist does it, I am going to question a design that doesn't make sense for the character's circumstances. And if an aesthetics-focused artist does it, I'm probably going to assume they find fatness ugly (again, especially if they're also making characters they like thinner).
(It should go without saying that any body type can have any personality trait. Unfortunately, many fatphobic stereotypes necessitate that it be said, so there you go).
With Vox specifically, looking at his overall character, I feel like he would have a very complicated relationship with his weight. On one hand, he lived through the Great Depression, and his concern over Valentino not eating shows he knows there's a point where health should come first. He also freely admits to wanting greasy food in the drawing video, so it doesn't seem like he has negative associations with certain foods (or he just doesn't care if something is "unhealthy").
On the other hand, he is in an environment that promotes disordered eating, he is one of only two characters so far depicted as underweight, his partner openly judges him for what he eats, and they're implied to fight about food being "good" or "bad" (Val: "[Sodas] are bad for you." Vox: "Val, I'm not fighting with you."). Said partner also makes a point of mentioning (albeit not to his face) that Vox doesn't meet his normal aesthetic standards for a sexual partner. During a scathing anecdote about a "fat bisexual". I mean...
Valentino might care about Vox, but he is not going to accept a heavier partner, and it would probably be a dealbreaker for him. And given Vox's assorted issues with abandonment and public image, that is not a fight he would put effort into winning. Maybe he won't let Val control what he eats, but if Val pesters him enough about his weight, he's going to lose some weight. That's like. Barely subtext to me.
(I actually got a question on my post about Vox's weight asking if Val prefers skinny partners. At the time I didn't remember him expressing a body type preference for men since we mostly see him hitting on women, but having since revisited the drawing video: He absolutely does. And there is a high likelihood that he contributes to whatever issues Vox has with his own weight).
Applying all of this to redesigns, if it's just an artist who wants to draw their favorite character a certain way, or they're redesigning the entire cast based on what they find aesthetically pleasing and all of them have different body types, I'm just gonna leave them to it. Not every redesign has to make sense based on canon.
If the artist intends for it to make sense, however, I do not think Vox is the right character to depict that way. Even if he had a naturally heavy build, and even if he was comfortable at that weight, he'd be doing everything in his power to stay as small as possible, because his environment, his public image, and his partner demand it. You have to pretty much change the entire context he exists in for it to make sense (which, in fairness, might actually be the case in some AUs).
(Fun fact, I almost changed up the vest on my fem!Vox design, because I feel like seeing Valentino with "more attractive" women all the time would bother her more than it does her canon counterpart, and horizontal stripes supposedly make people look wider. Turns out that's a myth and they actually create the opposite illusion, which is exactly what I wanted. So I kept them).
I was just wondering if you were ever planning on writing Hazbin fics? Most people mischaracterize a lot but I’ve always liked your takes, especially on the Vees.
Planning on and in the process of, lol. Of the ideas I have made note of and done enough work on to consider them WIPs, I have:
Post-S2 Vee-centric fic in which Vox is somewhat traumatized by his own actions and doesn't trust himself not to cause further harm to the Vees, while the other two try to navigate being both mad at and worried about him (inspired by a lot of fics where they ostensibly care about him, yet their top priority is basically punishing him for having a mental breakdown. Also inspired by the fact that Vox is very protective of the other two, and I wanna see him struggle with perceiving himself as the threat).
Post-S2 StaticApple fic where Charlie gets to be a main character, and upset about her dad's new maybe-sort-of relationship. Also has elements of a sick fic/recovery fic, because "what if plugging directly into a malfunctioning angelic weapon was harmful, actually," ended up being the thing that got StaticApple interacting (includes lots of Chaggi, and Vox & Velvette friendship. Val is around, but so far he's a more antagonistic presence, on account of he's not coping well with Vox not doing well. Also featuring Alastor prying into everyone else's business, and Shok.wav being protective of his dad).
RadioStatic time travel fic where Vox decides not to make his offer to Alastor, then does such a bad job of pretending he's not carrying around seventy years' worth of trauma that Alastor figures out something is wrong within 48 hours (or 48 minutes if you only count the time they spend interacting). Kind of both RadioSilence and StaticSilence at the same time, on account of Vox knows Alastor will turn on him if he can't manage on his own, and Alastor wants to get his hands on whoever hurt Vox while being pushed away every time he gets too close (metaphorically or literally).
Post-S2 Angel Dust & Vox one-shot in which they are both lonely, depressed, and touch-starved (starved of safe touch in Angel's case), and it leads to the world's most uncomfortable cuddle session (there are consent issues and a power imbalance. Neither of them knows what a healthy coping mechanism looks like. They hate themselves and each other. Both of them think it's the best they can do under the circumstances, and frankly better than they deserve. Maybe they'd do it again, who knows).
And then I've got a few sitting around that are like, interesting idea, not sure how I'd make it work. But I definitely at least have these four in progress.
Speaking of Vox and gender, and since you mentioned fem!Vox, what do you think a fem!Vox would look like? I personally like the idea of fem!Vox largely just looking like canon Vox, especially it seems like his more masculine attire of suits is because he likes presenting that way rather than because he feels like he Has as a man, but I'd love to hear your thoughts!
Here ya go! You'd trust her, wouldn't you?
I do, indeed, think she'd look pretty similar to her canon counterpart, lol. In my opinion, genderbends are most successful when the character is completely unchanged, save for anything that would actually be affected by their sex/gender (how they were raised, things they were exposed to, the way others treat them, etc). For Vox, that includes clothing preferences staying the same.
Some design notes + things that aren't obvious just from looking at her:
She is similar in stature to Charlie (whom I used as a body type reference), but still slightly taller and a little more broad-shouldered.
Due to her skeletal structure and the way she naturally carries weight, it is physically impossible for her to have the kind of body Valentino would consider a 10 (narrow shoulders, tiny waist, thick thighs). This was deliberate.
Like her canon counterpart, she is underweight.
"Feminizing" adjustments made to her clothes include a wider hat, a more elegant neckline on her vest, and slightly more flared pant legs. I also considered higher heels and looked at women's suit jackets and blazers before deciding to stick with canon for those; she can have more feminine tastes because of how she was socialized, but keeping the shark-like silhouette from the coattails was important to me, and I think she would hate high heels, actually. Been there, fuck that.
I had two rules for the eyes: everything stays on the screen, and she needs to be able to pull off both "sympathetic" and "intimidating". If I could not imagine her appealing to the crowd during the opening of VOX POPULI, then turning around and scaring angels during VOX DEI, something had to change. Since complicated designs become hard to read if the eyelashes are clipping off the screen, I ultimately went simple with it.
Okay, the new Vees shirt from Hot Topic got me thinking: Vox dresses in a very specific way as almost necessitated by his “friendly neighborhood CEO” persona. As you’ve mentioned before, he definitely does bring his own kind of self expression to that specific style niche, but if he one day wanted to try something very different, what do you think he’d be into, especially in relation to more modern styles? I’m personally fantasizing about how he’d approach all kinds of subculture fashion (not the cultures themselves of course, Vox couldn’t give less of a fuck about “punk values” even if he happened to like the clothes) but I’m really curious to hear your thoughts on this too
On one hand, if it's for an event or a photo shoot or something, I think he'd wear just about anything. He wouldn't necessarily like it, but he'd wear it. And he might even enjoy the novelty of it for a couple hours (he is also fully willing to wear things some would consider ridiculous, such as the soda drink hat. "It's too silly" will never be his reason for disliking a particular article of clothing).
On the other hand, I have so much trouble imagining him trying out a whole new style and liking it enough to wear it on his own time. He's like, the only character with a consistent outfit in the modern day who's been wearing something different every time we glimpse a past version of him, and he's stuck with vests for seventy years. Almost everything we see him wear is predominantly neutral colors or monochrome blue. If he's trying other stuff, he's not sticking with it.
I can see him liking capelets because they're something that could be added to his existing style (and because we've already seen him make a cape for himself). I can see him liking sweaters because we see him in sweater vests multiple times, paired with long sleeved shirts, so it's just modifying his existing style. I can even see more feminine takes on his genderqueerness going for certain styles of skirts because he seems to like loose fabric (coattails, baggy sleeves in the bar flashback, the trench coat-looking thing he wore in the S2 finale).
I cannot see him choosing a punk aesthetic. I look at that Hot Topic shirt and all I see is a photo shoot that he happened to enjoy, because I do not think he would wear any of that of his own accord. Except maybe the necklace, if the chain was shorter.
Of course, this is just my headcanon. When you push a character into something outside of their canon preferences, how they feel about it is pretty much up to your interpretation of that character, and it doesn't bother me if people think he'd enjoy a particular style of clothing (unless it's a style that impairs his movement in some way, then I'm going to be skeptical). I just personally think his taste in clothing is very specific, and given how long he's retained a specific style in spite of his willingness to try different things, it doesn't seem like anything else really appeals to him.
How do you think the Overlord system was established?
I've seen fics where Lilith was directly involved with the Overlords in some way (sitting in on their meetings, relying on them to some extent, etc), and while it's not my favorite take, I'm willing to believe that she did have some level of involvement with what's basically the ruling class of Pentagram City. So in a context where she was that involved, she probably established the system, or else left the Overlords to establish one and just guided them a bit to make sure it was functional.
(Oddly enough, I have never seen this particular take in a story where Lilith is meant to be a villain. Nor have I seen one of those stories address that the Overlords are like. Slave owners at best. And various other forms of evil depending on the individual. I can easily accept Lilith having her own approach to morality, or believing that there's no point in humans having free will if non-humans are going to dictate what they do with it. But without some kind of explanation, I cannot easily accept that Charlie's mother would intentionally organize or benefit from a system where free will can be bought and sold).
Anyway.
While we await more information about Lilith, I prefer an interpretation that largely stays out of intra-Sinner politics and is more concerned with things that affect the group as a whole. So I would tend to assume the Overlord system arose more organically, with Sinners first figuring out that deals made under certain conditions are binding, and then realizing that not only is selling your soul a thing you can actually do, collecting them from other people gives you power.
Assuming Vox isn't an anomaly and other Overlords have additional power sources beyond just souls, there may have been a pre-existing system. But soul ownership would have been the thing most likely to set Overlords against each other, because that was a power source they could compete for directly, and which could only be held by one person at a time (even in the case of the Vees, I assume each soul is owned by an individual, not all three of them). Cue a period of Overlords first snapping up every soul they could, then looking for ways to take souls from the others.
Humans being humans, I would guess that most of the Overlords who managed to rise to the top did so by restricting access to resources for others, and forcing them to bargain for what they needed. I would not be remotely surprised if individual Overlords went to war with others on multiple occasions, using their owned souls as conscripts (I could also see this being an intra-Sinner conflict that Lilith would have actually gotten involved in, even if she was normally more hands-off. Though eternal fighting between immortal armies is a lose-lose situation for everyone, so I actually don't think it would have taken them long to decide for themselves that they needed a different approach).
In this context, the first Overlord meetings were probably about trying to make coexistence work, and then transitioned over time to be more about addressing things of concern to most or all of them (the onward march of technology, the periodic rise or fall of a high-level Overlord, Hellborn trying to get involved with Sinner affairs, etc). Throw in the occasional mutually beneficial alliance and individuals like Zestial and Carmilla actually being/becoming friendly, and you eventually get to where we are today.
Or at very least, you get to where they were before Alastor started hunting Overlords and Vox started partnering up with them. Those two arriving in Hell was not good for the status quo (though I'm gonna put most of the blame on Alastor, because Vox probably would have been fine staying a solo act if he hadn't discovered Friendship).
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Do you think Vox would ever consciously experiment with his gender identity? Like I feel like a lot of the genderfuckery he does show is likely unintentional/just how he is.
I guess what I mean is do you think he would, for example, project eyelashes/eyeliner onto his screen, swap his trousers for a skirt/dress, making his voice more feminine, etc? I just really like the idea of genderqueer vox actually getting to act/dress/sound a little more feminine just to see if it suits him. Maybe he decides it’s not for him, or maybe he ends up actually liking it, either way just the idea of him accepting this part of himself and exploring it.
Idk I really enjoy your unique take on Vox (I prefer it to fanon Vox) so I just wondered what your thoughts would be on this. No pressure to answer!
Oh, absolutely. His choice of clothes, at least, is conscious, so him wearing sharper heels than is typical for men already suggests a willingness to experiment. And if he's gonna copy Charlie's voice and features in front of other people without the slightest hint of discomfort, I see no reason why he'd balk at messing around with his own if he wanted to. I don't think he'd even feel that weird about it, considering he could have stopped mimicking Charlie before turning back to the room and he didn't.
(As an aside, I don't really like the eyes on most versions of fem!Vox, but he kinda pulls it off when he's imitating Charlie. So I am of the opinion that we need more depictions that go big with the lashes, especially if they're trying to match the show's style).
I could more easily see him experimenting with skirts than dresses, because they can be paired with clothing we already know he likes (shirts, vests, etc), and he could easily retain his usual look for business settings by swapping his suit jacket for a blazer. But dress or skirt, I think he'd be picky about the style, for the simple reason that he's very active. If he can't move freely, including all the jumping around he does, I don't think he'd be comfortable wearing it.
That said, it is almost impossible to find examples of anything I could see him wearing. This is literally all I've been able to find, after multiple searches, and I am this close to saying fuck it and drawing something. Because this is not the first time I've talked about what kind of feminine clothing he might be willing to wear, and not having actual examples for something as simple as a skirt is killing me.
Luckily for him, his best friend is a clothing designer, and she's familiar with how he moves. If he did want to experiment, she'd be able to help find something that works for him (unlike my search engine, which is no help at all).
Personally, my favorite thing about his gender presentation is that it mixes blatantly masculine with blatantly feminine, so I like the idea that he'd enjoy some feminine clothing. I also headcanon that he'd be fine with simple jewelry, if only because it gives him something to fidget with (he's constantly messing with his bowtie, if he's not wearing it, I need to give him something else. It's a Requirement).
