-Goofy and Stolas, Two Flawed Fatherly Goofs-
And how understanding the former, helps us understand and sympathize with the latter.
Before reading I would like to ask that if anyone has watched Helluva Boss and both Goofy Movies, you can skim through the first part of this thread and go to: Character Analysis and Comparison as I will be recapping the some key episodes from Helluva Boss as well as both Goofy movies for any newcomers who may not know about either.
Now I've watched Helluva Boss since it debuted back in 2019 and at first, I wasn't too keen on it being anything more than a comedy series centered around a group of assassin demons from hell called I.M.P (Immediate Murder Professionals) getting into hijinks.
Tl;dr: I.M.P is an assassination company run by Blitz, the main protagonist of the series, as they take on contracts from sinners who died and went to hell but seek revenge on anyone they hated or were wronged by back on earth. In order for them to get to earth they needed to use a magical grimoire that Stolas "loans" to Blitz in exchange for the two spending 1 night on the full moon each month getting down and dirty in the sheets so they can have access to Earth as Imps are not normally allowed to that level of magic.
all of that changed in S1 ep2 "Loo Loo Land"
In the 2nd ep of the show, we were see that the series would be more than just wacky hijinks and that this would be a story with a heart to it as we are introduced to Stolas, I.M.P's benefactor, and his family life.
We learn during Loo Loo Land that Stolas has a somewhat strained relationship with his daughter, Octavia.
this is mostly due to the fact that when she was younger, her and her father were extremely close, however after some time after she grew into her late teen years, Stolas had gotten into an affair with none other than Blitz.
Things became hostile within the household as Stella would throw tantrums and wreck everything that was Stolas' all the while Via was watching the family she had thought was happy being together, fall apart.
To try and remedy this, Stolas takes Via to an amusement park, the titular "Loo Loo Land" which she use to enjoy going to when she was a child, however things do not go as planned as Via had to spend the day watching her father flirt with Blitz, whom he hired as a bodyguard.
At her limit and frustrated with watching her father act this way, Via storms off until Stolas catches up with her and the two have a heart-to-heart moment where Via opens up to her father about her fears of him leaving her for Blitz and while Stolas struggles to and is ultimately unable to tell Via the truth about why everything is happening and explain to her the relationship he has with Stella, he assures her that he would never abandon her.
The episode ends happily as Via and Stolas' relationship was saved from being burned down, even though everything else around them was being burned to a crisp courtesy of Blitz...um, Foreshadow?
Stolas and Via's relationship would be touched on again in S2 ep2 "Seeing Stars"
The episode sees Via running away to Earth after she tries to remind her father about a promise he made to her when she was younger about how he would take her to see Azathoth's tears (a meteor shower) as it only happens once in a great while.
But because Stolas was caught up arguing with Stella, who is moving out of their mansion and is having her things delivered, he had forgotten about his promise which causes Via to become rightfully angered and leads into the events of the episode.
At the climax, Via has another heart to heart conversation, not with Stolas, but with Loona, Blitz's adopted Hellhound daughter, where she talks to Via about how Dad's tend to mess up and make big mistakes almost all the time, but that it doesn't mean they don't care and that them trying to do better is what matters as long as they don't stop trying. as well as telling her how Stolas came with them to look for her himself (Stolas got caught up with Blitz as the two were dragged away and got into their own situation).
The ep ends happily as Via forgives her father and the two families (Via/Stolas & Loona/Blitz) enjoy watching fireworks go off.
After Seeing Stars, we wouldn't get any episodes or story plots that involve Stolas and Via's relationship for some time as by this point Stolas' romantic relationship with Blitz was becoming more of the center focus of the series as they both come to question how their relationship is and if it can be more than something that's merely transactional as both parties wish for something more intimate than simply having sex in exchange for Blitz being able to have a means to keep his business open.
I made a thread on this earlier if you want to read the FULL detail on this development because this thread is going to be long enough as it is already lol
From Truth Seekers to Mastermind: How we've reached the halfway point of Stoliz – @shana-reviews-tmblr on Tumblr
The only thing you have to keep in mind from the thread that connects to Stolas is that he has been in a crappy marriage and for the first time with Blitz he feels like he's found someone he has genuine feelings for and wants to have a genuine relationship with someone.
Because of this when Blitz is accused of stealing from Stolas, Stolas rushes to Blitz's rescue and takes the fall to save the person he loves and as punishment Stolas is stripped of his powers and title for 100yrs, no longer being able to see Octavia or come to his own property, Stolas has been banished.
This all culminates in the S2 finale Sinsmas where, after trying to get a hold of Via for over a month, things now begin to fall apart as Via endures her mother's cruel attempts to intercept Stolas trying to call her and explain everything, all while mocking him to Via's face.
Via also unfortunately finds her father's medication which he had been taking in order to cope with the abuse Stella had been putting him through for years.
When Stolas and Via finally get a chance to talk, Via completely shuts Stolas out as she assumes the medication Stolas took was because of her and thinks that all the good times they shared was a facade he was putting on and that Stolas would rather be happy with Blitz than with her and that the love she thought he had for her was also a facade.
the two of them are unable to communicate properly about everything and the misunderstanding between them causes Stolas to lose the one good thing that came from his marriage to Stella.
and we are left on a very bittersweet ending as Via has completely shut Stolas out of her life and all he can do is fall to his knees in tears knowing he will not see his daughter for the next 100yrs, and by then she may never recognize him as her father and just see him as a stranger.
And with Stolas' story summed up (for now) we can look into the other character this thread is covering.
That being Goofy and his adventures with Max in both A Goofy Movie and An Extremely Goofy Movie.
Like with Stolas I'll be summing up the events of both films, after which is where I'll get into the meat of things and try to show how Goofy's story and his own arcs will give us an insight into Stolas.
We begin Goofy's summary with the very first Goofy Movie, where Goofy, after being told a VERY exaggerated story by Max's principal about Max "Dressed up like a gang member" and was "causing a riot at school", decides to take his son on a road trip across country to spend quality time together in hopes of strengthening his bond with Max and helping him to stay out of trouble and avoid being put on the electric chair.
Unbeknownst to Goofy however, Max isn't the troublemaker his principal made him out to be and prior to being taken by his dad, was planning to attend a party where Max would hope to win the heart of Roxane, a girl he has a crush on.
Despite the rocky start the two have on the road trip, from Max rejecting any quality time with his father to Goofy taking some questionable "tough love" parenting advice from his friend Pete, the two slowly do make progress in becoming closer.
However Goofy learns a dark secret Max kept from him at the start of their trip. That being that Max changed their map so that they would end up in LA instead of Lake Destiny (the original destination Goofy planned to take Max too).
Because earlier in the film before Goofy took Max out on the Open Road, Max wanted to stop by Roxane's house and try to tell her he wouldn't make it to the party after he had promised to go there earlier when they met at school, but in a panic out of fear of losing his chance with her as she was walking away thinking Max wasn't interested in her, he lies and says that his dad was taking him to said concert, to which he then promised he would be on stage to wave too her, thus he changed the map in an attempt to cover his lie.
And when the time came for Max to direct his dad on where to go, Max in a panic chooses the route he picked, which then leads to Goofy and Max getting into an argument causing the two to crash off the road and be stranded in a river (roll with it) as the two now have no choice but to talk things out as they are literally stranded together with nothing to distract them.
after clearing every misconception up, Goofy now understands his son better and any doubts he had from his principal to even Pete telling Goofy his son is a bad kid are dispelled, while Max, after spending all this time with his dad, is now more open to his father and seeing him as more than just "Goofy".
In the end the two manage to see Eye To Eye as Goofy gets Max to the concert and the movie ends with Max confessing to Roxane, after telling her the truth and apologizing for the lies he said, before formally introducing his dad to her.
So, with the first film covered we now go into the 2nd film, which now sees Max heading to college and Goofy, after being fired from his job for losing his focus as he struggled with depression from Max being gone, needing to go to college as he must earn a degree if he is to find a better job.
An Extremely Goofy movie shows us Goofy and Max's relationship struggling once more as, with Goofy now attending the same college as Max, starts to try and spend so much time with Max that he is smothers him not helped that Max is planning to enter the College X games and face against one of the rival teams, The Gammas.
(Goofy Movie Tournament Arc, BEGINS!)
Things come to a breaking point as, after Goofy was recruited by the Gamma's, albeit with Max encouraging to his dad to join as a means to hamper the Gamma's and participates in the qualifying rounds, Max is shown up by his own father, who is unknowingly being used by the Gammas to cheat in the event and get under Max's skin.
This causes Max to blow up at his father because with all the smothering and parenting his dad has been putting him through while ignoring the ground rules they agreed upon was building up a lot of resentment with what happened at the preliminary rounds being the breaking point and Goofy is sent in a spiral of depression, he was failing his courses, not staying in touch with his new girlfriend Sylvia (who was the librarian of the college he was attending) and eventually was prepared to just accept his fate and quit college.
it is only thanks to him realizing he was losing his focus and in a sense being a hypocrite (as he had taught Max a similar lesson about Staying Focused on Your Goals earlier in the film) that Goofy makes a comeback and when the finals of the X games are happening, Goofy aids Max after the two make up with each other and their team defeats the Gammas.
At the end, Goofy and Max share a few words of love, understanding, and respect as Goofy is now able to fully let go of Max as he is able to graduate with enough passing grades to get his diploma and find another, hopfully better job.
And we see Goofy driving off happily into the sunset with his new girlfriend, Sylvia as he can move forward with his life while knowing his bond with his son is now stronger than ever before.
so, with both Stolas and Goofy's stories summarized we now can come to:
Character Analysis and Comparison
If you've read the above summaries or know of both Stolas and Goofy's stories, you might see there are some small similarities.
A strained relationship with said kids
Both have issues with communicating with their kids
Have romances with someone
are both doofuses in their own way
On a surface level this would be all the similarities that the two have and if so, how does that even remotely help anyone sympathize with and understand Stolas?
For this we have to dive a bit deeper and examine some of the differences between them along with their similarities.
Unlike Goofy, who is a working-class citizen, Stolas was born in a more privileged life as he is heir to the Goetia family, from birth Stolas was raised to see himself above others who were beneath his social class while also being denied any sense of autonomy, identity, and life outside of his identity as a Goetia it was only thanks to his relationship with Blitz, an Imp who is seen as FAR beneath him on the hierarchy, that Stolas began his journey to recognizing his own privileged life and the inequality that surrounds the world he lives in.
Goofy meanwhile is your average joe. He's an middle-class worker who tries to be a good loving and supportive father to his son, not to mention he is also a widower. Simple, yet easy to understand.
Another big difference is in how their stories are told, Goofy's story revolves around his relationship with his son, while for Stolas his story revolves around his relationships with Blitz (Romantic) and Octavia (Familial) but also includes somethings that are far more adult and nuanced than what Goofy is allowed to tell as Stolas' life includes but not limited to:
Spousal abuse at the hands of his ex-wife
Possible addiction to medication
The closet one can say Goofy and Stolas both have as far as "heavy topic" material is that both have had states of Depression.
This now leads us into their:
For Goofy, the cause of his depression was Empty Nest Syndrome as Goofy came to the realization that his baby boy is off starting his own life while Goofy is left alone after being with him for so many years.
For Stolas, his depression is tied to the Spousal abuse he suffered from Stella.
But let's examine some other things the two have in common:
This is something that shows up in both Stolas and Goofy's stories.
With Goofy, it's the miscommunication of him assuming he knows the story about what Max did in Highschool and rather than talking with Max to get his side of the story, Goofy believes what the principal said and, against Max's will, takes him on a trip thinking that this is the solution to helping Max when it didn't.
It was only when Goofy and Max were able to sit down and talk that Goofy got the whole story that he finally understood his son better which helped to mend their relationship and make it stronger.
This also happens with Stolas as I mentioned above.
Because of how Heavy a topic Stolas' situation is, this is something that isn't as easy as one thinks.
Because it is NEVER as easy as some will think it is for a parent to tell their child how much they've been suffering because of their spouse, made worse if the child is close with that spouse or if they have a good relationship.
and it's because of this lack of communication that Stolas is unable to explain things to Via properly to help her see him eye to eye and understand her father.
To Via she's only seeing her dad cheat on her mom with someone she doesn't know about, and it didn't help either when Stolas forgot his promise to Via to spend time with her like he said he would.
Both times Via forgave him but ultimately Stolas being unable to tell Via about her mother is what bit Stolas in the end, not helped that he never even told Via too about how Stella tried to have him assassinated.
So as we see, both Goofy and Stolas have had bad communication skills with their kids, while for different reasons, the fact is NEITHER of them were able to or were to talk and get things straightened out, which for both characters would find its way to bit them in the end.
which now leads into another trait both share that I might get push back from, but it's a hard truth.
Goofy and Stolas BOTH make selfish choices
How does Goofy act selfish? what blasphemy do I speak?
In a Goofy Movie, Goofy makes the decision to take Max on a trip without even once hearing Max out or even asking if he wanted to do this at all not helped that the first place they stopped at was a tourist spot where in Goofy gets into hijinks as well as doing things that makes Max feel embarrassed in front of crowds of people, despite Max trying to tell Goofy how he felt but Goofy was too lost in his own fun to listen.
Believe it or not On the Open Road, the music number that happens when Goofy and Max are on their journey, works and functions the same as a villain song singing which makes Goofy something of, if not, an Antagonist of the movie (and before anyone says anything Antagonist and Villain are not synonymous)
If you want to understand WTH I'm going on about, I highly recommend watching Sideways video on the music of a Goofy movie it is an amazing video and will better explain why Open Road is Goofy's antagonist song among other things you might like to find out about A Goofy Movie.
So, if you watched the video already then you should see why I mentioned Open Road as an example of Goofy being selfish, this is because the song revolves around Goofy saying what he plans to do which is something that hinders Max's goals as Max, in this movie, is trying to win the heart of Roxane, but now he can't be there with her like he had hoped because he's now going across country spending days and weeks apart from her.
The selfish choices Goofy makes also does not stop here as in an Extremely Goofy Movie, where Goofy this time is sort of the focus point.
In the sequel, Goofy attends the same college as Max and it's made very clear Goofy is trying too hard to cope from his Empty Nest Syndrome by wanting to spend more time with him that he never bothers to adhere to the ground rules Max and him agreed to, even though Max was very understanding and sympathetic to his dad for coming to the same college and genuinely wanted him to get his degree so he can get a better job.
But throughout the film Goofy is constantly smothering Max which caused so much friction to build up that when Goofy, unknowingly, shows up Max during a sports event it's what causes Max to finally snap at Goofy and call him out.
and in the end Goofy acknowledges his own wrong doings when he recognizes that he lost his focus on trying to spend time with Max when he should have been focusing on trying to get his degree, to which he tries his best to make things right by apologizing to those he wronged and work to get his grades up and help Max win the College X games tournament.
This leads us now to discussing Stolas' selfish choices.
With Stolas, the selfish choices he makes are tied to both his romantic relationship with Blitz as well as Via, due to how one affected the other.
Stolas was so emotionally damaged from growing up being molded and groomed to be the ideal Goetia and never feeling an ounce of genuine affection from either his family or his wife (save for Via) that when he met Blitz as children the fun memories he had was something he held dear, so much that after 25 years when the two met up again Stolas had misunderstood Blitz's attempts to distract him so he could steal his grimoire as an attempt at "Romancing" him, which he himself also contributed too when he was so drunk and in an emotionally vulnerable place after Stella belittled him in front of her friends, that he felt Blitz was showing genuine interest and love, or at least what he assumed was love.
Not helped that when Blitz gave Stolas petty sex it further pushed the miscommunication which got further muddied when Stolas made an arrangement with Blitz
As a reminder i made another thread that tries to five into Stolas and Blitz's relationship so if you want to re-read that, pause reading here and scroll back up to the link.
If not no worries, the only thing you need to take away from that thread is that Stolas, for the first time in his life, met someone, who isn't related to him, that he connects with who makes him genuinely happy and in a desperate attempt to have that, he makes the selfish choice of wanting to have Blitz in his life as a lover.
This also causes friction with his daughter as mentioned earlier how Via watched her family fall apart and her father chasing after someone who she doesn't know and thinks is a homewrecker, when in truth she doesn't understand nor was told how close Blitz was to Stolas or sees how much of a good person Blitz actually is.
Loo Loo Land showed Stolas made the mistake with how he was ignoring Via's emotional state when he constantly flirted with Blitz instead of really talking to Via, a mistake that was in a very well placed part to show the irony, was done to him by his father Paimon when he saw Stolas in distress over what he told him his life will become and rather than deal with him, he took Stolas to the circus instead, there it was an attempt to distract Stolas and not deal with him.
With Stolas' it was a genuine attempt, if misguided, to try and make Via happy even if his own want for Blitz caused him to lose his focus on trying to help Via work through her emotions and properly explain things to her.
It just goes to show how Paimon's upbringing of Stolas affected his parenting skills:
It's the lack of communication that Stolas has with his daughter that makes it harder for Via to see her father's plight and truly understand him, and this leads to her believing he might lie to her, not helped that any chance Stolas DID try to communicate with her like in Sinsmas when he tried to call her to explain everything, Stella ran interference FOR A MONTH which caused Stolas' window of opportunity to explain things to vanish and she calls him out on it.
much like how Max, for all the times Goofy was making his own selfish choices, did the same.
But make no mistake, even if Stolas and Goofy's stories are not one to one the same, what similarities they do have and any differences between them DOES help paint a bigger picture.
that picture being parenthood and how much of a spectrum it is with how parents can be loving, supportive, and well-meaning, while also being very flawed and human in how they try to handle situations that come up as there is no 1 specific or "right" way to parenting or how some problems parents face can be different in some details, yet still have the same root cause/issue and not all have the same solutions or can be solved the same way.
Which leads to a topic that Stolas and Goofy both share that can't be denied, no matter what:
Their Love for their Children
It's no secret that Goofy loves his son, it's one of the driving forces of both movies, heck even taking into account the show Goof Troop and the Mickey's Once upon a Christmas special, Goofy's bond with his son is unquestionable strong and is core part of his character.
Case in point this moment here from the movie where, despite him and Max having friction, Goofy shows his love for his son by having a real moment with him as the two bond over somethign from the past they use to have fun with:
And just as Goofy has undying love for Max, so too does Stolas have undying love for Octavia.
well the picture you see above with him holding a newborn Octavia shows that he was there for her since her birth, we never get any pictures of Stella being there for Via or pictures of Stella and Via by themselves, we only see pictures of Stolas and Via together from him being there for her on her birthday to playing horsey with him having her riding on his back, heck in S1 Ep2 the episode begins with a young Via crying out to her parents, but only Stolas goes to check in on her and her nightmare was soley about her losing him.
The only thing that Stolas did that we never see Goofy do, and this is more a result of how Disney locks Goofy behind a G rating; Was when Stolas, after finally standing up to Stella, talks about how he endured so much of her vitriol, cruelty, and malice even when he tried hard to make the marriage neither of them wanted, work. ALL FOR VIA'S SAKE.
Even showing how he would have felt terrible for what he did if his actions had hurt Stella emotionally, but the only thing of hers that was hurt wasn't her heart, but her pride as a Goetia.
He endured so much for Octavia and all to let her have some kind of a normal life that he was denied and to be honest if Goofy was in Stolas' position he'd do the same for Max.
I do not know if this thread will enlighten people on Stolas' character or if people will agree with me or my points.
My goal with this thread was to show the similarities between these two as I have seen countless times people decrying Stolas as an unlikable character, that he deserves to be miserable, or worse deserved to be killed.
To which I strongly disagree, Goofy reminds me so much of Stolas and vice versa, sure they have plenty of differences, but that shows how Stolas isn't a carbon vopy of Goofy and that he stands out as his own character.
Stolas may not be A-Hyuck-ing all the time or getting into slapstick moments with a "YAAAAAAAAH-HOO-HOO-HOO-EEEEE!" holler at the end, but he is silly in his own way and his arc only differs from Goofy in that Stolas is a privileged prince who has to unlearn the aristocratic upbringing he was molded into.
But where Stolas and Goofy are similar is in how they are as father's trying to be there for the children they love so dearly.
Goofy's journey lasted 2 full movies, not counting any specials or the TV series (Goof Troop), it roughly tells a story that is 2hrs and 42mins total, in that time span of each film things had to be set up, lead into the conflict, and be resolved by movie's end.
Stolas' journey as a character is lasting what is to be a 4 seasoned 52-episode series that has to stretch his development to where it is needed story wise, in other words Stolas' journey (in terms of his relationship with Via) is a slow burn compared to Goofy's and it isn't completed yet, so it is unfair to say Stolas or Goofy's journeys are superior or inferior to the other rather we should look at their story as two different takes of the same goal they both set out to accomplish.
So the question is, with all that we've discussed in this thread
If we can sympathize with and cheer for Goofy to have a happy ending with his loved ones, despite the mistakes, and selfish choices he made...
Then why can't we do the same for Stolas, when after everything that's been shown in this thread, do we see so many similarities that are irrefutable even if there are some differences between them that makes each character have their own identity?
Why can't we sympathize with and cheer for Stolas to find happiness and outgrow the upbringing he was forced into?
Regardless if anyone agrees with me, I hope at least this thread gives you all something to think about regardless if you watched ether characters story. Because if Stolas and Goofy can have similarities...how many other characters out there are similar that also might be unfairly hated?
In the end I see Goofy and Stolas as similar characters and as I said earlier are two shades of what I see as a Parenting spectrum.
"They may not always get it right, but they're trying...
that's more important than you think."
