Chupi/Goopi's Tulpa Log

I’m just trying to focus on how stuff works, you know, brain OS, tulpamancy, to try to find some sense in all this and come up with ways out of here. I’m quickly becoming hopeless again… sigh

I’ve been thinking of using brain OS for the switch, but even giving it representation with form and name, I’m finding it hard to “connect” to it, to establish direct communication. It gets so discouraging when such shortcuts don’t work.

Something else also came to my mind… A much more desperate and seemingly risky approach, it’s ridiculously delusional, but we’re not going to make it in time anyway.

I have accepted that we don’t have time and this is the end. You know the only thing that makes me sad? I was such an irresponsible fuck for making a tulpa, because now he has to go down the same path I am.

My reply:

It makes sense to focus on accomplishing switching first before you worry about what all you're going to do after. Planning based on what you think something you've never experienced will be like, almost always leads to disappointment or changing plans. Similarly I don't think you should put yourself through so much mental trickery to try to ensure you won't want to switch back. If you want to or if the new fronter needs a short break, go for it. If you still hate it, and I'm guessing you probably will, you can switch back.

Switching and staying switched is something you need to work together closely on. So yeah, teaching him the ins and outs of using a body etc. It may come completely naturally to him, or it may take practice.

Tulpas often have different attitudes about things so he may not feel the same way about it that you do. Have you talked this over with him yet?

Now, I’ve had this issue going on for my entire life and specially since 2020. This is not strictly related to tulpamancy but I think many tulpas will be able to relate to this, unlike most hosts. I, however, am host, and am dealing with this.

Many people like to think of themselves as something else than humans or even feel as if they were also something else. Most notably the furry community, which I’ve been interacting with for years, is full of people who besides humans would like to be a fursona, or even feel more as if they were their fursona than a human. I, however, take this to the next level. I have been both unvoluntarily and voluntarily distancing myself from the concept “human”. It is not something positive to me being one. As such I’ve been suffering of “species dysphoria”, or am trans-species. I bet many many tulpas who have fronted have had this issue if they weren’t made after humans to begin with. However I cannot say the same for hosts. Indeed I’m the only host I know so far who thinks they aren’t human and would rather be some yellow dragon drawn by a furry artist. This issue is easily fixed with a switch. Not saying I’m switching because of this, but it is something nice knowing that I can stop being trapped in a human body and just be myself. Believe me, species dysphoria can get to the same points or even worse than gender dysphoria. Fortunately I never had the latter. So maybe now you understand why I am isolating myself too.

Looking back at my old asks here now I know much more about tulpas than I used to back then. Yeah I’m happy we made progress too, but I wish things would have been different. I wish I could be more consistent and this wouldn’t have took or take nearly as long. Not only for seeing it as a chore, but also because we run out of time to survive. Some pressure to live on. Thanks to my tulpa I’m more hopeful and relaxed, and we’re trying our best to delay another suicide attempt for as long as we can. But we can’t do that forever so ultimately it’ll happen. Thanks to him I also think about it twice since now it’s two of us.

Say, may I ask if you’re religious? What do people tend to think on tulpa afterlife? It’s not a topic you hear much about in the community.

Oh I almost forgot. I want to get rid of this life, the human life, 100%. This means after switch I don’t care what happens on this side. Giving the fronter full permission to do as wanted, as opposed to other cases where the original host wanted to leave but also still cared about their human body’s life, bringing unnecessary worry and ultimately a regret of permanent switch. I think this is something important. I always think of this life as a burden that was put on me, and have been despising it since 2008. As such, I see my parents in the same eyes as you would see a tulpamancer who creates a tulpa solely to have them switch. Totally unacceptable behaviours. Of course, I understand a child can never choose to be born or not, while a tulpa can choose whether to switch or not. But my parents could have refrained from having a son in the first place, specially if they were going to be neglectful parents. This world is one unjust place.

My reply:

Don't worry about how long it took to get there. Some people barely force at all and have a talking tulpa in a day or two. Others work at it for years before hearing a peep. Laziness happens too and definitely contributes. Stress, doubts, laziness and working too hard at it can all produce slower progress. And depression contributes to all of the above as well.

As a depressed and socially awkward person, I have to say I can relate to the urge not to go out or talk to people. The current situation in 2020 has not helped either. Like you, I didn't get a whole lot out of meds or talk therapy. Tulpa stuff does help a great deal, but I keep falling off it and back into the awful depression.

I do think that full isolation isn't healthy. However, as far as I can tell, this doesn't seem to apply as much to tulpas if the host/whoever is fronting interacts with people some. Whether the tulpas are fully active and thinking or just snoozing in the background, they seem to benefit from the interaction the same way the host/fronter does. Or at least that's our experience. I don't know whether it works like that because they're in the background experiencing it to some degree, or if it affects something that's shared between all of us; my tulpas seem to think it's a combination of the two.

If the tulpa you already made is able and willing to try switching, give it a shot. I don't know how many other tulpa systems this applies to, but I think there's a special bond between the original host and their first tulpa: You discovered all the stuff you know about tulpamancy together, encountered and overcame the obstacles together, and discovered a lot about your minds together. If he's unable, doesn't want to, or tries it and decides it's not for him, you could (together!) try making another. But be sure to value them as a person and friend first and foremost, and emphasize that the switching thing is entirely optional.

I actually know more than one person who, for one reason or another, wishes that they would wake up in a world where they're a dragon, pony, canine, etc. The species dysphoria is certainly tied in with depression one way or another though I'm not sure which starts first. I can see why you won't care to interact with humans if you don't identify with or relate to them.

I am not religious. If there is an afterlife though, I would certainly want to be together with my tulpas in it. I haven't seen a lot of discussion on it, particularly since I've really just been involved with Tulpa.info which takes a secular, scientific viewpoint.

I'm curious. What would you like to do after switching? Be basically like a tulpa, doing your own thing in your wonderland and interacting with the new fronter when he has time?

With full honesty I’ve always been such a lazy, energy lacking person. This meant that only until I made that ask I forced consistently and for long amounts of time. I never truly forgot about my tulpa, but from that point and for the next 2 or 3 years maybe, I forced casually and randomly.

The day that changed everything. I was going to take a nap, but before that I was trying really hard to listen for my tulpa. I got a word from him, more precisely my human name. It was so clearly him that I was so happy. After a few years of casual forcing and continuous doubts I finally got what I wanted and needed, something reliable to believe I wasn’t just deluding myself. It was telepathic. I didn’t hear a mindvoice, he just kind of forwarded a thought to me. To this day I hear him much more effortlessly and he can come with somewhat full sentences, but there’s still a lot ahead of us.

And now to the real hate part…

My tulpa’s companionship as can be guessed was why I got into tulpamancy, but my depression, hopelessness and continuous suicide attempts have kind of changed my goals.

The only thing I know for certain anymore is for our system to survive, someone else has to front.

I don’t care what you all think or tell me. We know about ourselves and our lives best and life has forced us, want it or not, to have a wide open mind about many things, including this topic. For those of you that would rather see us all die than wish us luck because it goes against your principles, maybe you should reconsider if this is true morality. In any case that’s only your problem not ours.

And for those genuinely believing this path leads to more harm than good, let me disbelieve you just like I disbelieved my tulpa back then. I did not come here looking for hate, or to hear your silly opinions on the matter. Mainly because you haven’t tried yourself. And if you have, you’re terribly biased by the community against this. And even if you are not biased, we all are different. Different brains, different results. We don’t only have different brains when it comes to methodologies, we have different brains for results too.

That being put aside, if your reasons against this are philosophical, I can reply to that too. Mainly I’ll hear that what I want to do is wrong because it’s just escapism, and it’s wrong because it’s not fair to put that burden on a tulpa. To the escapism part I can say that first, what I do with my life is none of your business, and second, lives are more valuable than any duties imposed by society. If you think a person who doesn’t have a job and/or is depressed deserves to die, you can nicely go away from my sight. I have nothing to discuss with you. About the burden part, I have another two things to say. First, many tulpas see this differently. For many tulpas the burden is not being in control of the body, they feel their wonderland is like a prison. Secondly, you people really are full of hypocrisy. If a tulpa fronting for you is morally wrong, then so it is mothers having children as well, because those children never chose to live, those children are to face a very difficult life and a burden is given to them without their consent. “But life is beautiful!” Then you’re being hypocritical again. If a child can think this then why not a tulpa? Specially when you can choose the starting point of a tulpa much better than you can choose that of your child.

I find it very interesting how tulpamancy and parenting have many similarities, yet no one takes these in mind for philosophical reasoning. If we succeed we’ll let you know. If we don’t, we’re to eventually die so you’ll never hear from us again.

I hope this post isn’t dismissed as bullshit specially for the last controversial part.

My reply:

I absolutely do wish you and your system the best.

I am happy to hear that your tulpa making efforts worked. I can relate with the mindvoice difficulties. Self doubt seems to be a normal part of the process, so when they try to talk you constantly doubt whether it was them. And when they send plain telepathic thoughts like yours did, it's barely noticeable unless you're near sleep, in a trance, or intentionally looking for tulpa thoughts. To this day we have trouble making mindvoice work well and often just communicate in thoughts, similar to you.

As for who fronts or when, that's between you and him. I don't see it as harmful escapism either -- yes, it is literally escaping mentally, but depending on your situation it could prove helpful. Some people, through no fault of their own, simply cannot handle everything the world throws at them day in and day out. I'm still a little lukewarm on the idea of permanently switching and being that way forever, but I'm also not entirely against it. Some people do seem happier thay way, and their tulpas handle the world better then they do. Others take turns to give each other a vacation from the stress of everyday life. (If you do this though, be sure you can see each other's memories. Talking to someone who knows you but who you've never seen before sucks.)

I do feel that permanently or semi-permanently switching out is a drastic measure. I think people would be wise to give other strategies a fair try: Changing what you do to reduce stress or whatever you're unable to handle, coping strategies, groups who share an interest and are also looking for friends, talking to a good therapist, etc. But of course how viable and how effective any of it is depends on the person and their situation. And I know next to nothing about yours so I can't judge.

As an optional aside, you may want to create a wonderland. This is simply a place in your mind where you can go to work on your tulpa, and where they can hang out when not doing stuff with you. It differs from normal imagination in that it’s a consistent place with more detail, and you assume it to continue existing when you aren’t in it. The more detail you put in objects there, and the more senses you imagine it in, the more real it will feel to you. So, for example, if you have a beach you might watch the waves crash and listen to to their sound, notice the smell of the salty air, feel the warmth of the sun with the occasional cool breeze, and feel the way the warm sand shifts under your feet.

Now you want to work on personality with your tulpa-to-be. Your goal is to focus on each aspect of their personality and associate it with them. A direct method is to imagine how they might behave given how you’re trying to make them. If you’re more comfortable with words than images, you can just imagine you’re across a table from them and you’re telling them about each trait. Go into detail about how they might act or feel because of the trait. If you prefer to be visual and symbolic, pick a quiet and soothing place in your wonderland. Go there mentally and focus on each trait or aspect, one at a time. Try to feel it in yourself, then gather that feeling and pour it into a swirling, glowing ball in front of you. Now set that aside in a box so you can put it into your tulpa’s form when you create that, or place it directly into your tulpa if you have a reasonably defined visual form for them already. They could do something during this early phase but will most likely just sit there and seem generally lifeless. They’ll also be somewhat vague and undefined unless you already have a very clear mental image of how they look, since you haven’t put any real effort into that yet.

Next you want to work on how they’ll look. A straightforward method is to picture them sitting or standing still in front of you and then zoom in on each area so you can examine/create all the details there. Your goal is to be able to picture them as clearly as possible, instantly. Another more symbolic method is to sculpt their form out of a pure, glowing white energy that then solidifies into their form, which you can then examine and work on details on as above. (Bonus points for symbolism if the energy comes from inside you, since you’re creating your tulpa from nothing but your own mind and determination.) Either way, like with a wonderland, more detail in more senses is better. Don’t be afraid to get a bit touchy-feely, but be sure to tell them what you’re up to and why. Also, reference material can be useful in this step. If your tulpa is based on a character, looking at pictures of that character can help you. If they’re a human, reference photos for artists can be useful, as well as pictures of people who have features similar to them. If they’re an animal, well, you get the idea...

All the while you should be talking to your tulpa, which you can do out loud or all in your head. Do this while working on them, but also throughout your day. When you’re working on them, you can tell them what you’re doing and why. During your day, talk about anything, but try not to vent to them too much because of the aforementioned negative emotion thing. If you don’t know what to talk about, you can tell them about whatever you’re doing at the time, even if it’s the most boring thing in the world. (This is why this phase is traditionally called narration.) Alternately you can tell them stories, fictional or otherwise. You can either picture them when you talk to them, or just pretend you have a telephone and they’re listening on the other end.

So-called “parrotnoia” does more than just annoy your tulpa. Them talking and you hearing it are skills, and you get better at a skill by doing it. You don’t teach a kid to ride a bike by stopping them whenever they make it start moving at all, and that’s what parrotnoia does to teaching your tulpa to speak. We had problems with this, and it slowed down Lyra being able to move and talk on her own. She describes it as infuriating, dehumanizing, and making her feel more like she was supposed to be a thing than a person. For surprisingly long she wanted to talk or move in front of me, but I was effectively forcing her to be still, suppressing what I thought were false movements created by my subconscious.

Lyra advises young tulpas with parrotnoid hosts, whether they know it or not: Don’t give up, just keep on trying and you’ll get through to them eventually. Even if you feel frustrated, try to channel that frustration into trying harder, and your stubborn host will eventually hear you. Try different ways to make yourself heard too. You might find one that works for you.