this is awa! here is my main multi-fandom multi-purpose blog for reblogging + sporadic rambling about things i’m into. i’m heavily dynamic-focused when engaging with media so do expect me to read way too much into the interactions i like between characters. i also like exploring love and the expressions (or the lack thereof) of which as a theme, especially when it’s unrequited/unequal and messy. shipnames are liberally used, not necessarily to indicate characters in a hypothetical romantic relationship.
very occasional nsfw posting, all of which will be properly flagged as mature/sexual! unfortunately i’m extremely picky with character and dynamic depictions on this front but always open to discussions :)
i’m horrible with dms. please allow up to a few days for responses… i’m thankful for your patience! i’m slightly better with asks and replies on posts however, so do feel free to hit me up over those too.
current media obsessions:
- house md: chase/house, cameron/house (<- hyperspecific readings and visions of those two), chase/cameron are my favs, but i love any house - ducklings dynamic and anything among the ducklings themselves—especially concerning the og trio.
my fav character is (unfortunately?) house and i’m (doubly unfortunately?) keenly interested in the trauma-informed aspect of his decisions so please interact at your own risk.
- yellowjackets: i like natalie and her with literally anyone, mostly travis, lottie, and jackie.
- mahoyaku: mainly oz/figaro, but i enjoy anything between oz-figaro-arthur (+ snow and white), romantic, sexual, or otherwise.
- honkai star rail: the greeks truly got hands. i’m extremely into phainon/mydei at the moment but also enjoy most possible dynamics in general…
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i personally think one aspect of togiri that appeals to me the most is how byakuya essentially views kyoko as an equal to him and the (gesture) inherent sense of trust brought up by that feeling. i like to imagine how it manifests in the little things ie byakuya being generally picky but would be more willing to try things if kyoko recommends it. commoner sweets? “if you insist… but only one piece.” cheap coffee? “it can’t be that good, but sure, if you insist.” learning how to cook? he would stare at her like she’s grown a second head at first but the concept of Kirigiri Knowing Things I Don’t annoys him and so.
So any thoughts of well, the Blade Lineage itself so far
theory-wise, not much aside from we are likely going to see aeng-du and bamboo-hatted kim as semi-important NPCs to one of the greater projects limbus company as a video game was intended to be: a way to explore the city as a living setting. distortion detective is the only gap in my project moon lore/worldbuilding knowledge, but i will be correcting that Soon and perhaps will have more theories later.
but thoughts in general? quite a lot.
general disclaimer that i am not intimately familiar with korea's history, though i know portions of the last 100 years. but in summation: i have always adored project moon's insistence of making the works of yi sang be a focal point of inspiration for the setting, themes, characters, and messages as a whole, and the role of the blade lineage in the city itself exemplifies this very well.
the influence of The Wings in particular on the project moon series is from the ground up – not just thematically, but even in the verbiage of the setting.
The Wings is an evocative, heartbreaking critique of japanese colonialism in the form of a narrative of a man in an abusive relationship with a woman who controls every aspect of his life to the point where he has lost all sense of self, all the while she is committing infidelity and secretly drugging him. he loses his autonomy and identity, expresses both need and hatred of the meager monetary aid she entertains him with, and laments his isolation and total alienation from a world that should be natural to him as it is to all others.
the oppressive mundanity, isolation, and repetition in The Wings is something Lobotomy Corporation (the game) parallels extremely well. kim ji-hoon has said that his intention with the game was to, in essence, "simulate a lobotomy" (paraphrasing) for the players – not unlike the conditioning the quasi-self-insert narrator of yi sang's The Wings goes through.
but let me skip ahead to yi sang and ryōshū.
yi sang and ryōshū, similar to yi sang and faust, are alike in passion: they are both artists. yi sang, much like his counterpart in The Wings, sees art in all things existing as they are. meanwhile, ryōshū, much like her counterpart in Hell Screen, believes that art is something intentionally created and manipulated by the hands of few brilliant individuals.
from canto V, an example of their butting heads over the nature of art (not the only example, but one that comes to mind):
yi sang shutting down a dialogue this succinctly (while partially motivated by the gravity of their situation) is a rare thing for him. he makes the choice to not engage ryōshū with her perception, presented with authority in spite of his inherent disagreement with her in a philosophical sense. while whether or not she is correct depends on whether or not the whale classifies as a living creature, to yi sang it simply does not matter – the patterns of the veil are a curiosity and a point of observation, and the nature of it as itself is worthy enough for him when it isn't for her. the same is true of the narrator of The Wings and his wife; she does not see the beauty he does, and she seeks to control him and his perception of the world.
what this does is essentially frame ryōshū as the antithesis of yi sang in this regard. and with the nature of the setting as a whole being based around The Wings, this implies that ryōshū as of now is in total opposition to the themes, messages, and purposes of what the series is about. she is inherently a conflict just by existing.
this then brings me to ryōshū and her engagement with aeng-du.
what the conflict between the blade lineage and the kurokumo clan does is bring everything i said above into the front and center, leaving no room for questioning the intent of the conflict that exists between ryōshū, yi sang, and even the series as a whole. when aeng-du defends herself and her right to exist as herself with her people from the perceived threat ryōshū's very existence in proximity gives her, ryōshū's immediate response is to confirm why aeng-du is defensive. not exactly the reason, but close enough.
and of course, it is only after this near-murder that yi sang is the one to provide her comfort – by knowing their shared home, by sharing the pain of loss to the hands of outside forces, and in feeling alone and on the defensive. the blade lineage shares yi sang's complete and total isolation, both in the game and with his counterpart in The Wings.
essentially, i love that the blade lineage has taken one of my favorite aspects of project moon's worldbuilding philosophy and has all but confirmed it as unsubtly as possible. i think it was done very well and i hope we will continue to see more exploration of it in similar ways. the blade lineage should most definitely make a return.
That was one hell of a part 2 good lordy. I have SO many thoughts but I cannot put all into words for now, here's some though.
Dante is being real quiet [sus especially after how much they talked in canto 5, plus how they seemed seemed realise that they need to actually take part in helping the sinners proper] and they are [seemingly] the only sinner one could connect to Carmen [literally all of the chirstian symbolism, the way the static on her appearances was similar to the static Dante has seen on AFD and their overheating, the fact she seemed to speak through them at that point]. I am probably just reading into things but after the whiplash of how much they usually talk - internally and externally - I am very much getting a sinking feeling something's wrong.
Basements are evil. Hong Lu is rich enough to have a basement in his houses. He will probably have an evil basement. I would bet money on this, especially if its a sort of 'other world' as alluded to in his book (that I have not read. It does mention a Land of Illusion if i recall, however, so possibly a door to that). Bonus points if it ends up being upside down or smth.
Would the 'chaotic' part of the golden bough ( of 'em at least) have any sorta relation to why we Heath's E.G.O seemed unstable? I know most of the other distortions/E.G.O awakenings happened near boughs - which connects to the theory that they are directly related to Carmen and thus allow her to talk to people more easily like with the monolith - either Dante's fragment or a full one, but the specific mention of a chaotic one could mean it's responsible for Bodysack seeming to have corroded, as one can see the warning labels typical of a corroding E.G.O.
Given Faust's change in behaviour - namely stuttering for what I believe to be the first time - regarding the conversations around the 'creation of humans' I do believe this was how she was made. Yi Sang did say he made the tech used within the pods in that very basement, and the fact that he was the first recruit could mean that the Faust who approached him is not the same Faust on the bus. The idea of her being a metric fucktonna ID's layered on top of each other firstly explains the Council of Fausts theory, wherein she is able to talk to other versions of herself, in this case because that's what she is, as well as what Dante says about her looking somewhere else before answering. Mirrors alter perception, so her looking at a different Faust for answers could explain that as well. Work's too with her base E.G.O, wherein three shadows seem to point out an answer on her wall of notes. She has all the knowledge, she just needs her other selves to point it out when needed - thus her evasive attitude when it comes to answers, she needs time to get it pointed out.
On that note, do you think her attitude in Selva Obscura is a reflection of og!Faust, but she drops the act later on once Dante has fully forgotten their past? She doesn't really get that jokey after that.
Like how the middle seemed to be the antithesis of Ishmael in C5 part 2, the ring seems to be Heath's. The middle represented how Ishy as a person was mostly incompatibility with 'the bit', in the form of a situation that is remarkably silly on paper but ended up in near total annihilation of the group. The ring may represent how some may look for deeper meanings in all things from arts to people, which clashes wickedly against Heathcliff's more straightforward approach when it comes to handling situations. The dredges of the ring are those parts of him that overthink and he solves the problem as simply as he's been solving many others.
Cathy in a Coffin reminds me of when Carmen was content enough to haunt the narrative from her Bucket. Nothing else to say here except for the fact it's funny.
But back to Carmen, and more particularly 'fate' regarding distortions. The theme of denying of what 'should've happened' is a decently big theme of limbus - from the rewinding death to even subverting what happens from any literary source material - so if they end up going 'Carmen no Carming' to her later on, defying someone who seems to be as much of a god-like entity as the Head in some ways, I would not be surprised if we either get a visit from Iori, one of Demian's lot or another Lo9 member - x or current. Additionally, defying fate may just be what brings back Heathcliff from the edge, keeping Cathy alive in this mirror world but presumably in a weird weirdass way. My guess is that she distorts and gets nabbed by LCD - but I also just wanna see Moses so.
Also hey what happened to the seven strikes of lightning. Are they gonna be in Heath's distortion dungeon or something? No clue.
And I think that's it. Gonna stare at a wall for a while now methinks
OK SO FIRST UP THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS HERE SO I'LL TRY TO ANSWER TO THESE CONCISELY
Now that you mentioned it, it was always very strange how Faust is Number 2 despite being there first and her mugshot having already been in uniform, so now that you mention her different attitude in the Prologue I honestly see a lot to what you are bringing up here. It was always a personal theory of mine that Faust's real "Mephistopheles" was Sang Yi or Yi Sang somehow, since Sang Yi still to seems to be a rather...odd entity that doesn't correspond to any particular mirror world and is implied by Yi Sang to have some degree of omniscience (and there's also that marked part in the dungeon where he "mysteriously dissapeared" for some time with no explanation), so she might have gotten Yi Sang to do the procedure that would give her this infinite knowledge, specially since even Yi Sang himself emphasizes on her having been "gifted" with omniscience, I Highly doubt he's being figurative here, even more with her EGO's background being the shadows of multiple people.
In regards to Dante not speaking I think it's simply because of the difference in situation, unlike Ishmael who was very clearly out of control due to her own mindset, Heathcliff is being driven over the edge by circumstance -- and some quite insane circumstances at that, so it might be why they could not intervene, but hopefully they'll step up when we get to the next part, specially since we'll be dealing with Distorted Heathcliff....and also, it's very interesting that we actually got Heathcliff's POV on how it felt to Distort. It might be Dante's connection to Carmen and The Sinners aligning at once.
And also, Catherine is def a Carmen expy (I actually did my own analysis some time ago in similarities Kromer, Ahab and Dongbaek had with Carmen too but this one is the most. Insanely explicit similarity) and the fact that she speaks to "Welcome Heathcliff home" at the very end in her own voice alongside Carmen...I can't help but feel she might have been planning to get Heathcliff to Distort all along as part of her personal plan that they can be together happy in Hell. The Overclocking symptoms seem to have been an indicator of Heathcliff approaching Distortion, I really like how...drastically different it feels from the awakened Crow's Eye View and Snagharpoon, and just in general how they completely threw the formula that had been built up until now out of the window (heh)
Either way, thanks for shooting me a message! It's always fun to get to hear other people's observations and theories and share my own two cents along the way
Edit: I forgor but frankly if Hong Lu has yet another Creepy Rich Person basement I think I'll bash my head against the wall. The real moral of Limbus is that basements are bad and evil. Sorry there are just So many good observations here and I'm a bit scatterbrained at times shfhh
In regards to the "fate" thing, I feel like that will be a big part of dealing with Heathcliff next part, Limbus Company as a game and story is built on the reimaginings or "what ifs" or classics, and we've seen it with Yi Sang that his ending was changed in the end; the original Yi Sang died and the protagonist of The Wings commits suicide, but he rejected all of that, while Ishmael was on her path to repeat the cycle of the story of Moby Dick but thanks to Dante and Heathcliff she rejected that as well. And the title of "Clear All Cathy" really establishes from the first moment the goal this time. We'll have to wait another week to see how it rolls.
As someone reading a lot of the limbus company books, how do you rank the ones you've read so far? are any not really worth checking out?
oh boy! uh, i don't have negative opinions on any of them, frankly! i think they're all worth checking out. i would say my FAVORITES have been moby dick and dream of the red chamber (two of the longest!) but close behind is demian, the wings, and hell screen. like i said before i haven't read faust or crime and punishment yet.
like i say in the don quixote episode, which is full of spoilers so you probably haven't listened to it -- don quixote is probably the least NECESSARY read out of all the books? just because you can get the gist of what don quixote is about. just like... read the translator's introduction. but you SHOULD read don quixote, it's really good and fun.
i think you MUST read the wings even though it's not even that relevant to canto 4 in many ways. i think you MUST read metamorphosis if only because people don't actually understand what metamorphosis is about. i think you MUST read l'etranger for the same reasons.
here's my slapdash ranking of the ones i've read with some reasons to read tacked on: (not faust or crime and punishment)
Moby Dick - experiment in the nature of fiction. you want to hear this man infodump about whales.
Dream of the Red Chamber - it's a commitment but you'll never regret it. everything in my life is now a reference to hong lou meng. it's such a delight i miss it now that its 120 chapters are over
Demian - a seminal work of queer literature by a man who was certainly cishet. the theological reading is incredible.
Hell Screen - genuinely haunting. the plot summary gets a lot across, but it's a can't-miss to actually understand how it gets under your skin.
The Wings - you know it, you love it. get obsessed with the collected works of modernist poet yi sang. i love him.
Wuthering Heights - give it a chance! you're not supposed to like anyone in it. also, no adaptation of wuthering heights (except in limbus company) is any good, so you have to read it. it's genuinely brilliant.
Don Quixote de la Mancha - it's so funny. like, for real, cervantes is such a delightful author and you have no idea how until you read it. it has the same meta delights as moby dick for real.
The Metamorphosis - franz kafka speaks to our time in many ways. people really cheap out from reading this one because they just think about funny bug, but it has a real atmosphere to it. understand some themes today
The Odyssey - im sorry it's been a while since i've read this one. BUT. it's a timeless classic. pick up an annotated edition and read about how homer isn't a real guy!
The Stranger - lowest on this list not because i dislike it but because i just have the least opinions about it. but don't be satisfied with the sparknotes -- go read it. also, sue me, i like camus!
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see now i'm wondering if his ring ID is the kind of person yi sang could have become if he didn't join limbus company. like he internalizes the thinking pattern of "i'm a fool and not worth a damn and everything i do only hurts people" and expresses that self-loathing via his art. eats drywall
OK SO. I TOOK SOME TIME TO ANSWER THIS ONE BECAUSE I WAS TRYING TO GET HIM FOR MYSELF. I don't even really play the game anymore and keep up with the story via YouTube but. Y'know just to prove a point basically and Virtual Yi Sang Collectionism while I find myself with too much free time again so you might have gotten to see it by yourself by now but. Still.
Actually looking into this with his story and all of his dialogue they really did just give him an actual Bad End ID like Nclair, Ahabmael and G Corp Gregor (with some variation of Erlking joining eventually? but I have no idea how that will work taking in count the plot aspect) since Spicebush Yi Sang doesn't really Qualify as one of those and is even framed as being empowering in a way for him taking in count its release was timed so it could be used in the Farmwatch fight instead of waiting for the end of the Season like the others. I believed that W Corp Yi Sang was this spiritually; since it depicts him at his lowest point imaginable following on the track he was on already and the themes of Canto IV perfectly though not related to it, but now Ring Yi Sang has shown us a much more connected, and much darker potential path for him. So I'll take this post as my chance to analyze this:
In regards to his self-loathing it's very interesting that he actually seems to feel a sense of pride not seen in any of his other IDs, talking about "what he deserves" and disregarding everything that doesn't cause him a reaction. He now uses creation itself as a way to fill the emptiness inside of him, while in the main story, Yi Sang's resolution was that his impulse to create was his way of connecting with others.
You can see that in these lines, where he has completely disregarded everything about life and other people, pretty much all of his dialogue revolves around wanting to create and he has only interest in what can inspire him, to the point he nonchalantly kills civilians for failing to make him feel that way.
I feel like this is even expressed in the Sins for this ID compared to base Yi Sang, the set-up is the exact same; S1 Gloom and S3 Sloth. However, the one that changes is S2. Regular Yi Sang has S2 Envy while Ring Yi Sang has S2 Lust. Added this to Ring Yi Sang's passives even being fueled by Lust as well while base Yi Sang's are fueled by Gloom. I take this as a representation that he has taken this Lust, an obsessive desire, as being what will drive him forward throwing away all the self-loathing and regret, with many of his lines calling the past meaningless.
Now I'll tackle his story and do a rundown on it while giving my observation, as it ellaborates into this and what his mindset is (and frankly, it's utterly fantastic). First of all, we get a unique, dissonant track that so far seems to have never been used in any other instance in the game to my knowledge.
Yi Sang's approach to his scientist position is very...unique, because he does so as an artist rather than more proper scientific people like for example Faust, Dongrang, Aseah and Gubo. People who simply want practical application and results, means to an end. Dongbaek seems to be the only person who shares this approach he has which is why their bond is treated as unique compared to the other League of Nine members. At his core, what fascinated Yi Sang so much about technology and sciences was simply the euphoria of discovery itself, finding new things. Which is tackled immediately when Ring Yi Sang's story begins as I am showing here.
With science, you never truly "create" anything, you go through right and wrong answers until finding something that works or causes some effect, he even says so himself in Canto IV. And he goes on to criticize his prior fascination with technology with this particular aspect in mind. Even more shockingly is that he calls the League of Nine's conferences a "waste of time" now, each of their creations predictable which could tie into him being a one-of-a-kind genius, which is also somewhat tackled in Dongrang's observation log. To him, everything else his friends made was child's play.
So instead, he looks towards what made him so fascinated with The Mirror in the first place, echoing this particular point he makes during his log for Dongbaek, both of them are driven to reach something abstract and inconcievable and ended up using technology as their path to that vague destination that can only be described in poetry.
And finally, he completely foresakes his past at the League. He even he believes he finally has his wings but calls them fabricated, and there is something obviously wrong with the entire thing on multiple levels. They are fabricated wings because he was guided to this conclusion by the hand of another, rather than the introspection throughout IV. His chapter title is "The Unchanging", and it's the only chapter where the trait assigned in the title to the focus Sinner is a positive; him staying true to himself and his ideals was the key, but he needed to actually move past his apathy and actually grasp them, but here he has completely changed beyond recognition. Turned arrogant, callous and utterly irrational, discarding all of his self-loathing by divorciating himself from the self that he hates, yet the Sloth—the apathy remains, instead of moving past it, fighting it back with his Lust in an endless cycle of dopamin chases while growing numb to everything else and even destroying it if it fails to satisfy that Lust so that it will, as shown as he kills failing students to take delight in their shock and agony.
But at the same time it frames that portrait of the League in his background art a completely different meaning. It is most likely that this portrait is a mockery of all of them, regarding the past and the life he lived until now including his past self with the same condescencion he does examinees that fail to impress him. Specially when you take in count how his own face is much more well-painted than the childish erratic strokes he assigns to the other, making them look ridiculous. But at the same time, Yeonsim is there under them, but flipped to its underside, he still held onto it but as far as we know it might be completely broken and only keeps it as part of his insulting work going by another of his idle chatter lines.
This dark inversion of Yi Sang's journey even before Limbus and Canto IV is also emphasized by Pointillism in particular being chosen as the subject for this ID, this was first pointed out by this Korean Twitter user (and fellow irl Yi Sang enjoyer going by the layout) in the original announcement for this ID:
Of course, this theme compliments Yi Sang's resolution in IV pretty well. He loved the League and grew to love Limbus because they were his resting place. I can't find any translation of Jochunjeommyo however, so I can only rely on summaries and posts put through machine translation. But from what I can summarize, the story is about an artist who can't find a place to breathe and simply exist due to the materialistic, capitalistic nature of the city he finds himself in, which fits pretty neatly with Yi Sang's story as a whole.
I'd also like to point out how a less overtly unhinged variation of this kind of development is shown in his Dieci ID story (which I wanted to make a post on for a while because it really feels like it was preliminary to this and not enough people talk about how messed up Dieci Yi Sang actually is) and how he comes to adopt a mentality just like Ryoshu's, with her already being linked to The Fingers and knowing about their workings personally to the point she might have been affiliated at some point though we cannot confirm, however I will instead link to this post by my friend on the topic since they already did a dissection on how Yi Sang and Ryoshu act as ideological foils and they pretty much said it better than I could: https://www.tumblr.com/ishcliff/743271628518129664/so-any-thoughts-of-well-the-blade-lineage-itself?source=share
So that's all I've got for now! Honestly I am so over the moon with this ID and the potential implications going forward as you can imagine.
My current theory is that the Sinners are numbered in order of desirability for the LCB. Yi Sang being first makes sense - their plan would not work without his mirror technology, and Faust comes next with her leading the Sinners and Dante.
It's likely that Ryoshu was bought for her connections to the fingers, Meursault for his widespread capabilities + something we don't know, Hong Lu's wealth and eye. Conversely, the likes of Sinclair, Outis and Gregor seem to have either stumbled into the LCB by chance or as an "oh well, maybe they'll end up being a good fit".
I definitely feel that the first six are irreplaceable, as opposed to the likes of Ishmael and Rodya who have LCCB IDs. Those IDs indicate the possibility of them being known by the LCB, but not chosen to be a Sinner. (I think that's lowkey horrible for Rodya who wants to be special so bad, lol)
From here, Murder on the WARP express spoilers:
Don Quixote being a vampire-creature makes a hell of a lot of sense. "How could she possibly be more desirable than Ryoshu, the one who straight up had a panic button for Dante?"
Faust disintegrated when Don Quixote's boots fell off. It's a top secret that cannot be leaked to the Sinners, and not even Dante until the time was right. But who knew? Vergilius, and the higherups of the LCB. They hired her because they knew - whether they thought she was useful or they just really didn't want their Sinners to face that.
From Don Quixote biting into raw chicken to chomping on enemies with her Lantern ID, it looks like we'll see more of cannibalism in the coming cantos.
Can I say though Yi Sang and Aeng-du's instant connection and solidarity is one of my favorite things about this event, it's just so sweet and also so special how they find that feeling of safety just from also knowing someone from the homeland they have left behind while they remain so out of place in The City. It stands out so much when the general mentality of the world is "everyone for themselves" but S Corp's people and those who had to leave it behind seem to have found so much understanding and sympathy with each other.
Overall I find it so interesting and unique that more than any other District in The City the people of District 19 feel such genuine attachment to the land and its heritage, not just with Aeung-du, Kim and the rest of the Blade Lineage but going back to Dongbaek and Dongrang's EGOs too, it's just so special to see that very united sense of culture and heritage in a world that despite being multicultural and multilingual seems to have largely left such notions behind
So, I decided to take a deeper dive into the different sin types in Limbus Company.
The TLDR Version:
Wrath - Unable to accept something
Lust - Having a strong desire
Sloth - Losing sight
Gluttony - Satisfaction-seeking
Gloom - Controlled by pain
Pride - Contempt of others/selfishness
Envy - Desire to surpass
Regarding the sinners' skills, the sin position is important as well. A S1 sin is a surface-level appearance, but S3 represents something deep inside them.
The detailed explanations are under the cut!
Wrath
Wrath, on the surface level, can present as being irritable or hard to get along with.
Wrath S1 examples
LCB Ishmael, who seems irritable and nitpicky at first.
Seven Heathcliff "Why am I doing this stupid job?"
Hook Office Hong Lu "Don't speak so softly, I'll feel homicidal"
S2 gets closer to how they really feel. The feeling of wrath comes from the feeling of "I can't accept this" - whether it's how they're being treated, how their environment is, etc.
Wrath S2 examples
LCB Heathcliff (past speculation) - Discriminated, mistreated, resenting what's happening to him
LCB Sinclair (past) - I don't want to get prosthetics
W Corp Hong Lu - Bored with his job.
And S3 wrath represents a strong rejection - they won't accept Anything they deem contrary to their own beliefs and ideals. It is a violent refusal.
Wrath S3 examples
N corp identities who are brainwashed - Kill all the dissenters and heretics.
Pequod Ishmael - "It's MY way or the HIGHWAY, god damn it!" (Throws a fit if another ID kills an enemy)
R Corp Ishmael - Hates it to the point she's looking for Singularity information of old R corp
LCB Rodya - I can't accept this armchair revolution and endless poverty. I have to kill this old windbag.
Lust
Lust in this case is a pursuit of something non-physical - a relationship, an ideal, a core element of your self. On the surface level, this can present as really wanting to be something.
Lust S1 Examples
LCB Don Quixote - Wants to become a great Fixer.
W Corp Ryoshu - Wants to be a great artist.
Sous Chef Gregor - Wants to improve his cooking.
S2 is a little stronger than just normal desire. They will willingly hurt other people or trample them to achieve their goal.
Lust S2 Examples
Tingtang Gangleader Hong Lu - Uses violence and is callous to those invading his turf
The One Who Grips Faust - Massacres Sinclair's village to get what she wants
LCB Ryoshu - Her idea of beauty ties in with violence
S3 is a little different - It's desiring something so badly on an existential level. It's pretty much what they live for.
Lust S3 Examples
R.B. Chef Ryoshu - Needs to be one of the Eight. Will stop at nothing to achieve this.
N Corp Heathcliff - Not brainwashed, doesn't really want to be. Wants to preserve his "true self".
G Corp Gregor - After an irreversible transformation, fully believes his reason to exist is to be a killing machine.
Interestingly, both LCB Heathcliff and Hong Lu have a Lust S3.
Sloth
Sloth is inaction, watching from the sidelines, not seeing what is in front of you. This can start with just simply being misguided, believing something to be true when it's not.
Sloth S1 Examples
W Corp Don Quixote - "I am working at a Wing!! CHOO CHOO!! Sally forth!!"
LCB Outis - Her piss-poor act of blind acceptance and obedience.
LCB Meursault - It is simply none of my business if Sinclair hyperventilates and vomits on the floor.
S2 sloth is more purposeful, not taking action when one should or purposefully being ignorant of reality.
LCB Faust - Does not tell Dante and the others a lot of information and doesn't stop sinners from running amok.
LCB Hong Lu - Despite being perceptive, does not seem to register bad situations as bad or react to pain appropriately.
G Corp Gregor - This feels wrong but I'll just continue with it anyway.
S3 sloth is a total loss of vision, not being able to see what's important to them. Losing sight of all they used to desire, and doing nothing about it.
Dieci IDs - Lost their memory and doesn't even remember what was most important to them.
K Corp Hong Lu - Doesn't seem to mind his total loss of freedom and autonomy, despite desiring freedom in other IDs.
LCB Yi Sang - Could not care about anything he once loved or aspired to be, until he was able to gain his wings once more.
Blade Lineage Don Quixote - Once used her strength to fight alongside her comrades, but now kills for purely her own sake.
Gluttony
Gluttony is a desire to be satisfied, whether it's something material or psychological. This can present like greed or selfishness at first sight.
S1 Gluttony Examples
LCB Rodya - "I want meat, I want money, I want to gamble!"
LCB Ryoshu - "Let me smoke. Let me do as I please."
Lantern EGO Don Quixote - Curious about the abnormalities and wanting to know more about them
S2 Gluttony is wanting more at a crucial point in their life, or desiring more than they could chew. It could also mean getting hooked into something or addicted.
S2 Gluttony Examples
LCB Ishmael - "I quit my job, I need something that's not labour hellscape... Hm? That hag can sure talk..."
R Corp Heathcliff - Began deriving enjoyment from killing
N Corp Don Quixote - Didn't even need the brainwashing, got hooked onto the N Corp ideology herself
S3 Gluttony seems to be the final stage of seeking what they desire - being satisfied, even when they shouldn't be.
S3 Gluttony Examples
Tingtang Gangleader Hong Lu - Seems completely happy and enjoying himself
Seven Heathcliff - Actually learned to like his job
W Corp Hong Lu - Doesn't want praise or a raise, just fine with how things are now
Gloom
Gloom represents pain, and how it affects how the person treats their situation or other people. On the surface level, they may appear melancholic or having given up.
S1 Gloom Examples
LCB Yi Sang, LCB Gregor - Self explanatory.
Rosespanner Meursault - Crushed by work
R Corp Ishmael - Headache, pain, does not like it here
S2 Gloom is a moment of despair, when something in their heart was broken. This may also involve guilt and inflicting pain.
W Corp Don Quixote and most W Corp IDs (Except Hong Lu and Ryoshu) - The shocking reveal of what W Corp really is.
N Corp Heathcliff - "What the hell am I even doing??"
Lobotomy EGO Heathcliff - "All my friends are dead."
S3 Gloom can represent letting their pain affect how they treat others. Lashing out, being insensitive to others' pain, or simply giving up and accepting the hurt as inescapable.
W Corp Yi Sang - Abandoned hopes for freedom, just wants it to hurt a little less
G Corp Outis - Knows she cannot escape the unfair treatment
LCB Ishmael - Lashes out and hurts others because she is deeply hurting, making it more painful for her too
Pride
Pride is the belief that they are different from other people, and so the rules don't apply to them. This can seem as arrogance at first, even if they are not actually like that.
S1 Pride Examples
LCB Sinclair - Rich boy 1
LCB Hong Lu - Rich boy 2
LCB Faust - Doesn't hide that she thinks she's better than everyone else
S2 Pride can contain disdain for other people, and believing they are better than those around them. Therefore, their actions can be excused in their eyes.
S2 Pride Examples
LCB Meursault and LCB Outis - Competent and they know it themselves. Outis thinks of her comrades as dirt and points and laughs when they die.
W Corp Ryoshu - Her art comes from chopping up the dead and deformed passengers, doesn't give a single shit about them
LCB Rodya - Believed she was special enough to make a difference and split the hag's skull.
S3 pride goes a step further - their own desires take precedence over anyone else's. They may even see other people's lives as literally the same as a blade of grass. If they want something, they'll trample everything and anything.
S3 Pride Examples
The One Who Grips Faust - Probably doesn't even give a shit about the grand ideology or her minions. Just did it because she could, and wanted to.
The Middle Little Sister Don Quixote - "I can kill anyone who disrespected my organization!"
LCB Ryoshu - Has the littlest regard for human life.
Envy
Envy can start out with the simple desire to surpass someone, to become better than others. To want more than what other people have.
S1 Envy Examples
Tingtang Gangleader Hong Lu - Began wanting to be stronger, to have more power.
LCB Heathcliff - Rich bastards are annoying, they don't deserve it more than I do
Shi Ishmael - Just wants to survive in a world of dog eat dog
S2 envy is the need to be better than what you once were, to surpass yourself and get something accomplished.
S2 Envy Examples
LCB Yi Sang - Bettered his own craft and created the mirror.
Pequod Members - Lay their past self to rest, and opted to hunt the whale.
R.B. Chef Ryoshu - Wants to make better and better pies
S3 Envy is the result of their desire to surpass - or that they have accomplished something, but with a heavy price.
S3 Envy Examples
W Corp Ryoshu - Extremely powerful, but her sword will suck up her health if she doesn't charge it properly.
R Corp Heathcliff - Gained insane power but lost something important to him in the process.
LCB Sinclair - Was able to avoid getting prosthetics but his whole family dead.
Pequod Heathcliff - Managed to get out of the Middle but is covered in scars he can't erase.
I will continue to write more specific theories, but this is how I feel about the sin affinities right now! I'd love to write about EGO and enemies as well soon.
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someone told me Yunho will push Seonghwa harder than Yeosang and their interactions have a different kind of tension to them and now I can't stop staring at this to figure out what that is.
They recognize each other's hunger. There's a ruthlessness underneath their calm demeanors and the same kind of cold ambition. Their fan service is like watching a geisha perform; it's all artifice but performed at such a high level of artistry that you must pay tribute. They demand it!
@storkmuffin Okay yeah, this is a big part of what I meant by that.
I actually find the YunHwa dynamic fascinating because they are very much control freak 4 control freak.
Look, putting the shipping goggles on, Yunho is very good at Looking at Seonghwa - like, I have no idea if Yunho is a guy who is attracted to Seonghwa, but he's very good at playing one on tv. So there's that.
But taking the shipping goggles off, because they are control freak 4 control freak, they work excellently together as a collaborative unit. They're great at being silly together, and controlled flirting, and putting a little bit of sexual tension into things when they're working as a team. I'd be fascinated to see what an unit song for the two of them would look like. Give me the YunHwa sex jam song already.
However, as we have theorised, Ateez are in competition with each other as much as they're working together. And I do think that applies to their fanservice as well. They don't always know what's coming when one of them decides it's time to flirt - and Yunho's better at initiating and adapting to it. It's my personal opinion that Yunho scares Seonghwa a little bit the way that Mingi scares Yunho a little bit. He's just that tiny bit more unpredictable.
And that little bit mean. Hotteok sadism doesn't come from nowhere.
I hit the tumblr image limit way before I ran out of things to say about Mydei, so here is the second half of the notes I've been collecting on his characterization. As always, interpretations are my own.
6. Mydei Both Embodies and Challenges Nikador's Virtues
We know that Mydei is regarded, by characters in the game at least, as the perfect avatar for Strife. Repeatedly, the game parallels Mydei and Nikador, and throughout our journey in 3.0 with Gnaeus, we're supposed to see the similarities between his aloof but noble behavior and Mydei's belief that violence without honor is nothing but meaningless slaughter. Obviously the undying king with powers literally based on the spilled blood of legions would be a good match for the warrior god whose conquest plucked the sun out of the sky... (Although I do like the recent discussions I've seen of there being mismatches between the Chrysos Heirs and the titans, hmm.)
But though Mydei reveres Nikador as his people's god, at the same time, he actually reviles what Nikador has come to represent, quintessentially rejecting the the central tenants of his own people's faith. Even as he recognizes the inevitability of the prophecy, Mydei is unwilling to accept the coreflame because he sees his own identity as diametrically opposed to Kremnos's conception of Strife. Mydei doesn't want to become what Strife means for his people; he does not feel fit to be Strife's demigod because he understands that doing so will mean losing himself, a person who is fundamentally different from the Nikador of Amphoreus's current timeline.
So the game is simultaneously telling us that Mydei is a great parallel to Nikador and a terrible parallel to Nikador, and it achieves this interesting contradiction by deliberately examining Nikador's five core traits in comparison to Mydei, who both exemplifies those traits and defies them.
According to the Kremnoans, the five virtues of Nikador are:
Unfearing of blade at the throat, manifesting the visage of courage
Unyielding to conniving treachery, protecting the crown of honor
Unblinking of eyes burning bright, upholding the cornerstone of reason
Unbending from wounds to flesh, forging characters of tenacity
Undaunted of risking life to protect, embodying corpus of sacrifice
Taking only the key concepts--courage, honor, reason, tenacity, and sacrifice--it should be abundantly clear how closely Mydei hews to these virtues and how they've informed his character arc so far, but I think it's particularly interesting: Mydei's story also intentionally refutes the traditional Kremnoan interpretations of those virtues.
I'll talk more about sacrifice later, but the other virtues are very apparent:
"Unfearing of the Blade at the Throat"
I barely have to say anything, do I? I doubt there's anyone who would question Mydei's courage given what we see in from 3.0 to 3.1. Without flinching, Mydei was willing to plunge into single combat against Nikador, despite knowing that he would almost certainly die a countless number of times while trying to hold the god off. Even knowing that Phainon was literally losing his mind in Nikador's coreflame trial, Mydei was willing to jump into the trial himself to save Phainon, again without a single ounce of hesitation. Mydei has lived a life where he has constantly faced death head on, where he has needed to stand up against impossible odds over and over again.
Clearly, he fully embodies the classic Kremnoan notion of charging into battle without wavering, of never backing down from the challenge, and of never shying away, even when loss is imminent. On the surface, we can easily say that Mydei parallels Nikador in this manner, and that Mydei gracefully fulfills his people's expectations for a leader to be absolutely undaunted in combat.
But then the game takes another track and tells us that Mydei is not only what he seems on the surface. With direct confirmation, the game tells us that Mydei is not fearless.
In fact, he's flat out terrified--not of combat, but of history. He is frightened of his own authority, of the responsibility he bears toward others, of choice that has been left in his hands. He is afraid of making the wrong choice, and for both 3.0 and 3.1, we see him do the exact thing a Kremnoan king--an embodiment of Strife--should never do: he wavers. Multiple characters criticize him for this hesitance, even Phainon, who jokingly scoffs at the idea of Mydei breaking his people's traditions, only to backpedal when he realizes Mydei is serious.
The conclusion of Mydei's arc in 3.1 is not the trial with Nikador. It's not Mydei's becoming a demigod. It's not Mydei's battle with Flame Reaver. It's Mydei finally making up his mind and committing both himself and the Kremnoan people to the dead opposite path expected of a blood-stained conquering nation. Mydei's definition of courage directly opposes the traditional Kremnoan definition, and therefore also opposes their interpretation of Nikador's "unfearing" virtue.
Rather than charging into battle without flinching--Mydei's courage demands the Kremnoans surrender the fight instead. Instead of dying, now they have to live. This is what makes it so fascinating that Krateros actually reacts to Mydei's brand of courage with terror:
Kremnoans know how to throw their lives away without hesitation. But asking them to embrace peace? Change? To survive? They are unprepared and entirely out of their realm of experience.
Mydei's courage parallels Nikador's--but also utterly inverts it.
"Unbending from Wounds of Flesh"
Tenacity, too, should be very obvious. Of course Mydei fits the traditional Kremnoan interpretation to a T--he takes every hit and stands right back up again. Very little needs to be said about Mydei's willingness to keep going even if it kills him, then to come back swinging even after dying. In the eyes of the traditional Kremnoan people, who could possibly be a better example of tenacity than someone whose body can't even be stopped by death itself?
The implication of the original Kremnoan virtue, linking tenacity to being "unbending from wounds," is that physicality is what matters. Before all else, to be able to battle without ceasing is the aspiration, while other aspects of the soul, other elements necessary for meaningful lives, are left under-developed or entirely eschewed. You keep going into battle or you might as well not keep going at all.
But Mydei once again challenges this notion, as his character revolves around a central conflict whose answer is "peace"--he doesn't want the Kremnoans to have to show the type of tenacity they most ferociously believe in. Like Mydei's courageous decision to lead his people away from their own faith, Mydei's actual tenacity appears most clearly in his ability to face Amphoreus's cruel world with empathy.
Given everything he has experienced in his life, Mydei is the character in Amphoreus who has the most right to be jaded, to believe that people are inherently cruel, that nothing in their dying world can be improved, and that there's no meaning to life other than to suffer. He was murdered by his father who also murdered the mother who loved him. He suffered ten thousand deaths drifting miserably in the abyss of the Sea of Souls, entirely alone--yet he clung tenaciously to that life that promised nothing but more suffering, dragged himself free of that hell and kept going. He embraced friendship and found himself a family, only to lose every tiny shred of joy he had cobbled together for himself as they died in front of him in horrific ways, one after another. He became the crown prince of a fallen kingdom, leading refugees into a city that hated and mistreated them for years while he served as fodder for battle, all while knowing that his own ultimate fate would be to surrender his remaining humanity to become an avatar for calamity, ensuring his own future would nothing but endless pain and loneliness.
The man had absolutely nothing to live for (except for the fact he can't die, I guess), but instead of surrendering to despair, he's the one joining in on the Flame-Chase Journey, telling Aglaea that he admires her most because she managed to light the flame of hope in people--even in him.
Knowing that only more suffering lies ahead of him, Mydei still ferociously embraces the life he's been given and the heavy honor he bears in guiding others on the right path. Rather than just racing mindlessly into battle, again and again into the same cycle of conquest, Mydei's truest example of tenacity is his ability to "take the first step," moving forward mentally and emotionally toward the future he dreams of for his people.
"Unyielding to Conniving Trickery"
Just as with all of Nikador's other virtues, Mydei clearly embodies the traditional Kremnoan definition of honor: He's honest, straightforward, and reviles those who use trickery to achieve their goals. To that end, we can see his act of patricide as the ultimate example of Mydei upholding the very classic Kremnoan definition of honor, killing a conniving schemer, his father Eurypon, to avenge an honorable warrior, his mother Gorgo.
Yet even as he accomplishes what he views as a necessary act--a duty to his mother's memory--Mydei does not react to the deed as other Kremnoans expect. Krateros rejoices at Mydei's decision to kill his father, but Mydei's only response is silence. Later, as I mentioned above, he discusses the pursuit of vengeance with Phainon and warns Phainon that revenge can never bring joy or closure.
In the ruins of Castrum Kremnos, when Phainon and Mydei debate the intersection of honor in combat, Mydei at first challenges Phainon's soft-hearted view with the traditional Kremnoan definition--but then, when Phainon claims that Mydei doesn't believe in his own people's tenets--Mydei remains silent again, tacitly agreeing with the truth Phainon has revealed.
Mydei is a deeply honorable character. Certainly the Kremnoans would have no scruples saying that about him, if only his surface actions are considered. Yet at his core, Mydei's definition of honor ultimately rejects everything the Kremnoans stand for, seeing absolutely no meaning in their pointless battles or their excuses for bringing harm upon others. Recognizing that nothing is truly gained even during the most justifiable of killings, Mydei's own sense of honor makes all of Kremnos's sacred history look like nothing but a record of historic evils.
"Unblinking of Eyes Burning Bright"
"Reason" is the virtue missing from Nikador, the one that up and wanders away while the Black Tide moves in. We're introduced to Nikador's reason as an entire embodied concept through Gnaeus. Through Castorice's interactions with Gnaeus, we're led to believe that Nikador was once fair and just, capable of staying his blade in respect of worthy opponents and of discerning the schemes of lesser men. The virtue, in the classical Kremnoan interpretation, seems to lie in being judicious, in knowing when to strike to always secure victory.
Mydei, of course, is not an unreasonable person. (He's more reasonable than the cranky/tsundere stereotypes he gets in fandom, anyway lol.) As I mentioned in the first part of this post, when Phainon wants to go charge straight into fight Nikador, it's Mydei who demonstrates this virtue of reason, reminding Phainon that they simply don't have the resources to tackle the fight. In 3.1, it's Mydei who reasons out what is going on in the first coreflame trial and determines how to solve their issue, find Phainon, and safely escape. Tactically, Mydei clearly demonstrates the ability to keep up with his opponents' moves, strategically divide forces, and see through enemy bluffs. By all accounts, he's a perfect picture of traditional Kremnoan "reason" too.
Yet, once again, Mydei's particular sense of reason puts him at odds with Kremnoan beliefs--because he is smart enough to see the bigger picture. What does victory in one, two, three battles mean? What does winning one war mean, if the next war is already on the horizon? What purpose does dying in noble combat even serve in a world that is already ending? Mydei applies his reason not to the short-sighted conquest of prior Kremnoans but to the longer view of the future, recognizing the futility and inevitability of the rise and fall of nations. For this clear view of history, Krateros warns Mydei that the ultimate consequence of his own intelligence will only be more suffering for him:
Like Nikador's reason standing alone, Mydei's reason sets him entirely outside the Kremnoan faith, causing him to recognize the inherent failings of a cultural system of wasteful violence enforced for over a thousand years. Looking at his own people with a discerning eye, Mydei ends up accidentally separating himself entirely from the familiar confines of his people and their traditions--like Gnaeus, struggling but unable to return to the whole.
On the surface, Mydei represents an excellent embodiment of classical Kremnoan virtues. As Eurypon says in the Kremnos flashback, Mydei bears the seeds of all of Nikador's virtues, stepping unflinching into battle, refusing to surrender in the face of death, approaching every duel with honor, and knowing when and where to strike. But at every turn, he also rejects and exceeds the confines of his people's interpretations of those virtues, using courage to stop battles rather than start them, tenacity to take the first step on a journey toward a more peaceful future, honor to reject the cruelty of Kremnos's callous views on death, and reason to grasp the broader context of making meaning in a dying world.
Mydei should be understood, at his core, as a character of extreme contradictions--both the "most and least Kremnoan of them all." Examining the way his character parallels while also wildly deviates from Nikador's perfectly encapsulates the core conflict of Mydei's character arc, the place where who the world expects him to be--crown prince of Kremnos, demigod of Strife--clashes directly with who he wants to be--the revolutionary remembered for freeing his people from despair into a true "Era Nova" of hope.
7. The Person Who Matters Least to Mydei is Mydei
Okay, so wait--what about "sacrifice"? It almost goes without saying, but I left the last virtue to its own point because "sacrifice" is the single most important trait of Mydei's character.
This is true in two entirely different ways: Mydei's life and philosophy were shaped almost single-handedly by the sacrifices of others--first, by his mother fighting to the death in an attempt to avenge him, and then by the sacrifices of each of his five friends in turn, who died insisting that Mydei should live on in their place. Knowing of his mother's sacrifice and witnessing his friends' deaths were clearly the life-altering experiences driving Mydei's departure from the Kremnoan faith.
Even as he tried to fulfill his friends' wishes by taking up his place as the crown prince of Kremnos, it's from these losses that Mydei truly learned the meaningless of the central tenet of Kremnoan belief, "valorous death before glorious return." There was nothing valorous in the deaths Mydei was forced to watch--the people he loved died pointlessly, fighting essentially for a cause and nation that had already rejected them. By watching everyone he cared for sacrifice themselves on the altar of Kremnoan ideology, he--the sole survivor, the one always, always left behind--was forced to confront the real reality of a culture that chooses to romanticize death, that hinges self-worth on a willingness to kill and be killed, that exists entirely as a war machine dependent on its ability to bring pain and suffering to others.
Even as he loved Kremnos for being the nation to birth him, the nation to embrace him, and the nation to need him--I think Mydei must have hated Castrum Kremnos in equal measure. This, I think is core to understanding Mydei's relationship with his own self-identity as Kremnos's prince: He loved what Kremnos could have been, while despising what it had become.
In the sacrifices of his comrades, Mydei found the very opposite cause his friends expected of him--he found his will to tear down their entire nation's thousands-year-old system of wasteful bloodshed.
But, another contradiction: While hating the sacrifices others were willing to make for him, Mydei has also proven himself to be an exceedingly, unflinchingly giving person. There is no aspect of himself, his own happiness, or his own freedom that Mydeimos is not willing to sacrifice if it means protecting the people, the land, and the world. If by giving something of himself, he can improve the lives of those who deserve it, Mydei will always choose to take the suffering of others on himself.
We see this selflessly giving nature from his earliest memories. His first character story impresses that even from his time as a tiny child, he was willing to aid others with no thought of reward, at his own expense even, helping drowning fisherman make it to safety but never seeming to be able to make it out of the Sea of Souls himself. By 3.0, we're told that Mydei and the Kremnoan detachment had become Aglaea's blade, carrying the brunt of Okhema's battle against the Black Tide and the raving titankin. Despite the fact that Mydei has reservations about Aglaea's orders, he follows them essentially without question, even when he knows this will put him at risk of pain and death:
But 3.1, of course, is what truly hammers the extent of Mydei's self-sacrificial behavior home. In 3.0, we see Mydei flat out refuse the coreflame of Strife several times. Mission text for the game tells us that he has "an absurd extent of hesitation and objection to accepting the god's authority," but Mydei also insists repeatedly that his hesitation doesn't have to do with worrying about himself. Instead, he says that his only hesitation is his people. Whether this is true... more in a second, but for now:
Mydei does not want to accept his destiny to become the demigod of Strife because he fears it will bring harm to those he cares for, the Kremnoan people he has fought for and died (many times) to protect. He is afraid he will perpetuate the exact same cycle of needless violence he despises if he loses his self-identity to the soul of Strife. He is, he claims, perfectly willing to sacrifice his humanity and self-identity as "Mydei" to become "Amphoreus's Guardian"--but only if he can do so while still ensuring a real future for the Kremnoans. Sure, this seems like a noble goal, but in all of this, there is no talk of Mydei's life, Mydei's freedom, or Mydei's dreams. It is only ever "what is best for the Kremnoan people" and "what is best for Amphoreus."
In essence: What Mydei wants does not matter, because Mydei's only spoken concern is the needs of other people.
For me as a fan of this character, the first half of 3.1 was viscerally discomforting. As players, we have the oh-so-pleasant privilege of starting 3.1 watching Mydei be systematically manipulated into sacrificing his own autonomy. I absolutely love Aglaea and Tribbie, but I won't sugarcoat it: by word and action, both of Okhema's demigods knowingly stripped Mydei of his agency:
First, Aglaea insults and pressures Mydei, calling him foolhardy and essentially suggesting that if Amphoreus falls, it's going to be because of Mydei's indecision. She essentially drops the responsibility for all of Amphoreus on his shoulders:
Then, Mydei confronts Tribbie about the even harsher truth, that both Aglaea and Tribbie had knowingly gambled with Phainon's life strictly to push Mydei into that corner:
Yet even after all this, even knowing that Aglaea and Tribbie have just doomed him to an end in pain and misery, what does Mydei say? "I have no intention of condemning you for it." He knows the meaning of the Flame-Chase Journey and understands that his autonomy was never going to stand up to the prophecy. He just lost every hope he might have had of living the life he dreamed of--and what does he still say? "It's okay. I don't blame you." Goddamn Mydei, won't you stand up for yourself at least a little?
Then we get to watch Mydei grow desperate. His freedom and future are already bought and sold. He knows he's running out of time, and he still hasn't found a way to protect the people who are relying on him. He practically begs Krateros to help turn the Kremnoans away from their path of bloodshed, and what does he get from the closest thing he ever had to a father figure?
A extremely cutting guilt trip, and, maybe even worse, a thinly veiled threat to withhold regard:
This might as well be a father saying "You have disappointed me."
Mydei has no one to turn to in these early scenes. Again, not a shipping post, but his only genuine ally, Phainon, isn't here to be his back up, leading to scene after scene where Mydei is treated like fate's chew toy. Players get to watch every single character who is indebted Mydei for his service and who has every reason to respect his wishes instead turn on him and push him into doing things he doesn't want to do.
(Okay, I'm lying, this is a little bit of a shipping post: I can't help but laugh, because the plot of mid-3.1 is literally "Phainon comes back for one scene and almost single-handedly solves Mydei's central character conflict by sending him to talk to Chartonus." He really said "I gotchu, man." 😂)
In Mydei's final goodbye to Castorice, we even see this unhesitating self-sacrificial nature when Mydei thoughtlessly offers to let Castorice kill him just so he can help with her own goal of pursuing Thanatos. Castorice is quick to rebuke him because, unlike Mydei, who has come to view his uncountable number of lives as nothing but currency to be spent in service to others, Castorice desperately values life. She chides him for being so willing to sacrifice himself, but he basically deflects, claiming it's an aspect of all Kremnoans rather than reconciling with the fact that, by this point, he's basically given up on trying to have any regard for himself.
In the end, Mydei manages to find his way forward, making the final, devastating difficult call to dissolve the dynasty and end the history of Castrum Kremnos. This is framed as Mydei reclaiming his agency, making the choice that he knows is right over the choice everyone expects of him. This is what Mydei wants for his people.
But what is the final outcome here for Mydei? The Kremnoans staying safe in the holy city wasn't Krateros's wish, nor the detachment's wish--it wasn't even the young Kremnoan children's wishes to stay in Okhema. It was Mydei's wish to live peacefully in Okhema with those he cares about, finally free of the shadow of Kremnos's bloodstained history and the madness of the path of Strife.
The life that Mydei secured for the Kremnoans is the life he dreamed of living.
And now the only Kremnoan who doesn't get to live that dream is Mydei.
Mydei went to Castrum Kremnos knowing he would likely never return. He went knowing his own death was already signed and underlined in future records of history, either at the hands of enemies from the Black Tide or at the hands of the person he trusted his deepest secret to. He knew that he would spend the rest of his life alone, engaged in the very same endless war he wanted to stop, the strife he did everything to spare his people from.
He sacrificed his own humanity, his entire life--everything he fought to claim as his own--all to protect other people. (I.... love this character so much...)
Nikador's last virtue is sacrifice. If you want to understand Mydei's character, just remember: Mydei is the kind of person willing to sacrifice everything he has.
8. But the Fact that "Mydei" Exists Means Something
Okay, but with all of that said, the true tragedy of Mydei's story is that he wasn't completely selfless. If he genuinely had no thoughts for himself and lived only for the happiness of others, his actions in 3.1 wouldn't be framed as a sacrifice in the first place.
Mydei's decision was difficult, and his ultimate departure was saddening, because he did have some regard for his own life. Mydei had dreams that didn't involve becoming the demigod of Strife. There were things Mydei was looking for in the world that now he will never get the chance to find.
And nothing more clearly tells players this than the existence of the name "Mydei."
Unfortunately, the effect of Mydei's name change is a little bit lost from the original Chinese to English: In Chinese, while "Mydeimos" is the same as in English (Màidémósī/迈德谟斯), "Mydei" is actually "Wàndí" (万敌), functionally an entirely different name. This works in Chinese because the use of specific characters allows the meaning of the name to stay the same (the "My" in Mydeimos means "ten thousand" and so does "万") while the sound of the name changes noticeably. In English, just using an abbreviation doesn't have quite the same effect unfortunately, but obviously the English translators didn't have the same options.
Anyway, the point is that in the original text, Mydei didn't just ask the Chrysos Heirs to use a nickname; he literally gave them an entirely different name--almost an entirely different identity. This distinction is reflected in his very first voice line, where he introduces himself as both "Mydeimos, the crown prince of Castrum Kremnos, and Mydei, the warrior of Okhema," as if these are two different people.
Mydei was essentially inventing a different life for himself, a life where he didn't have to be a prince but instead could be just a regular warrior, where he wasn't "of Castrum Kremnos" but "of Okhema."
At the end of 3.1, Mydei's return to Castrum Kremnos is framed as "returning home." The mission description suggests this, and when Mydei returns to Castrum Kremnos, he's greeted by his mother's voice and answers her turn.
But this is actually bittersweet, because the game tells us repeatedly that Mydei has deeply conflicted feelings over whether to think of Castrum Kremnos as his home. In 3.0, Phainon insists that Mydei must be feeling extreme homesickness while exploring the ruins of Castrum Kremnos, but Mydei's conflicting backstories make it unclear whether he ever truly lived in Castrum Kremnos as a child.
Then, in 3.1, Mydei's scene with the children is obviously meant to be an evocative parallel. The children insist that Kremnos is their home, but Mydei pauses and asks them: "Can a place you've never seen be called your home?" This scene is important, because it is clearly intended to parallel Mydei's own situation. Most characters in the story--including all the Kremnoans--view Castrum Kremnos as Mydei's home, but he was thrown into the sea from the time he was an infant. Even if he returned to Kremnos after that, it could only have been under a false name, hiding his existence from his father the king. Is he himself holding on to the notion of Kremnos less for what it is and more for what he feels it's supposed to mean to him? Merely because of tradition and history? Was Castrum Kremnos ever really his home, or has Mydei's home always been the people he loves?
When Castorice asks him if he's returning home at the end of 3.1, Mydei struggles to answer the question, making it clear that he doesn't truly believe that Castrum Kremnos is his home anymore:
But if Kremnos isn't his home, then where is? (Oh, you wandering lion...)
I'd like to point out that Mydei's "About Self" line isn't "About Self: Castrum Kremnos." It's "About Self: Holy City." In this voice line, he expresses his surprise about the new life he managed to create in Okhema, how he never would have dreamed of ending up there as their ally one day. But in the same breath, he laments that "Okhema cannot be a home for everyone," because, as he discusses later in his "Annoyances" voice line: "Castrum Kremnos and Okhema have long been at odds. A spear can pierce the enemy king, but it cannot resolve the deep grudges of the people." Mydei is vexed by the barrier between the Kremnoans and the Okhemans because he doesn't want his two nations to be at odds. He wants Okhema to be a welcoming place for the Kremnoans--himself included.
The game tells us that Mydei was a person who was looking for a home, and that he wanted Okhema to be that home.
Mydei admits to Phainon that he is (they both are) naive, always wanting the best for everyone:
What Mydei believed was "the best for everyone" was a peaceful place. A place his people could prosper, a place where they could live on without needlessly wasting their lives on the battlefield, where, like the Mountain-Dwellers pushed from their homes in Chartonus's story, there would at least be a future for the Kremnoans that wasn't just "valorous death."
But Mydei wanted all that for himself too.
In "As I've Written," the author writes that Okhema was the final gift Mydei gave to his people--but in doing so, he had to sacrifice the chance to keep Okhema as a home for himself.
Mydeimos was willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for his people without hesitating. He was willing to throw himself into danger over and over again, even when it would kill him painfully numerous times. He was willing to face his deepest fear and take on the coreflame of Strife to protect Amphoreus, despite knowing that the cost would be his personal happiness and freedom. He did so almost entirely without regard for his own life, unwavering in his sense of duty to others.
But the existence of "Mydei" meant something: a small, secret wish for a different future, to become someone who could live freely in a world without meaningless, endless violence, unchained from the evernight at last, surrounded by the people he cared for and who cared for him in turn.
Many people are worried for the numerous death flags surrounding our favorite prince... but the truth is that "Mydei" is already dead. That hoped-for life died the moment Mydeimos accepted the coreflame of Strife and surrendered his humanity, the moment he returned to the empty darkness of a fallen kingdom, where only a throne of blood was waiting, bidding farewell to any dream he ever had for a softer future.
9. Deeply Affected by Okhema's Discrimination
All right, that was bad. So you know what I'm going to do now? Make it worse.
I truly believe that part of the reason Mydei did not fight harder against his fate is that, even as he made his decree telling all the other Kremnoans to stay in Okhema and adapt to their ways... He didn't know how to do that himself. Even as he wanted to make Okhema his new home, he didn't know how to make the holy city accept him. (He probably doesn't know how to make himself feel at home anywhere, really.)
"As I've Written" says that cruel rumors followed him everywhere he went in Okhema, even though he never raised a hand against anyone in the city:
His voice line "Annoyances" suggests that Mydei is frustrated that he could kill what was likely one of Okhema's greatest enemies, Eurypon, and yet still the city would not forgive the grudges of the past. In 3.0, one of Mydei's first lines to Phainon is to remind him that Okhemans and Kremnoans still don't get along, even as he also says "I'm not in a place where I'm free to change that."
In 3.1, we see that despite serving the city faithfully as frontline soldiers for years, dying for Okhema's cause, the Kremnoans are still so mistrusted that the Council orders higher ranking members like Krateros to be placed under surveillance. In 3.0, the Kremnoan NPC Aeleus basically ends up running off from Okhema (to his implied death) simply because the Okhemans would not accept his relationship with one of their own. At the very beginning of 3.0, one of Phainon's first lines is chiding Mydei for not protecting "Okhema's citizens," but the way the line is framed accidentally excludes Mydei from being counted among those citizens, something which Mydei calls Phainon out for.
In 3.1, what the Kremnoan children tell Mydei is pretty devastating: they're being ostracized so badly, they can't even think of the place where they were born as their home.
At the end of 3.1, Mydei is even shocked to see that people other than the Kremnoans have come to see him off, seeming genuinely surprised that any of the Okhemans would respect him enough to want to say goodbye.
Even more telling, Mydei's own allies, his fellow Chrysos Heirs, admit that they've completely neglected the situation of the Kremnoans, turning a blind eye to the discrimination and hardships Mydei's people have been facing for years.
But all of this really culminates in the first coreflame trial. Although I've seen lots of people talking about how Mydei's fear was losing his friends, including Phainon, I think a lot of people kind of blanked over the fact that Mydei didn't just fear losing his friends--he specifically feared that his people would become the victims of hate crimes. The entire setting of the first trial for Mydei was watching the Okhemans turn on the Kremnoans, hurling slander and literally beating Kremnoans to death in the streets.
(This last one was particularly harsh, as Mydei clearly holds Chartonus in high regard--seeing someone he cares for act frightened of him and tell him there's no place for him in Okhema clearly shook Mydei even more than seeing the shade of Perdikkas die again.)
Mydei confirms for Tribbie that in Nikador's trial, he saw his "greatest fear," something that "terrified him." But Mydei wasn't just frightened of losing his friends--if it was only losing his friends that he feared, then like Phainon was, he would have been transported to the past and relived their real deaths. Instead, we specifically see a new fear: Mydei is terrified of Okhema's xenophobia, terrified that his people (and himself) will eventually be entirely rejected, losing their last refuge in a dying world.
Part of Mydei's greatest fear is the belief that no one wants him, that there is no place in Amphoreus for the "beast spurned by all."
This, of course, makes Tribbie's comment about how she and Aglaea have sidelined the Kremnoans' concerns all the worse--while treating him as a friend and ally, the Chrysos Heirs seem to have largely failed to do anything to address the prejudice Mydei was facing. In fact, we even see this mirrored in the bath scene later; yes, it's light-hearted but also, in the broader context, it isn't the greatest of looks: Even though Phainon is obviously being dumb, everyone automatically believes Phainon when he pins the blame on Mydei, and they confront Mydei as if the whole thing were his fault.
Mydei is an incredibly resilient and enduring person. He has faced the entire world as his enemy and still come out on the side of good. He certainly would not allow the opinions of plebeians to sway him. Nothing others could say or do would force him to bow his head.
But... I don't think Mydei was as immune to Okhema's discrimination as he liked to seem. The fact that he created an entire new name for himself, that he swore his loyalty to Aglaea and kept every promise he made to Okhema and the Chrysos Heirs, and yet still couldn't find a way to make Okhema his home... The fact that dream he had for his people's future was essentially for them to be able to live the exact same lives the Okhemans already do, in peace and prosperity, and yet even while living among them for years, the Kremnoans hadn't been able to reach that level of comfort... The fact that his last wish to Phainon was for him to be the bridge to finally help the Kremnoans adapt to life in their new nation...
Phainon's comments about what happened to the Mountain-Dwellers after they left their homes almost seemed to suggest that he fully understood the dangers of the action Mydei had just taken--like the Mountain-Dwellers, committing the Kremnoans to a future in Okhema does mean exposing them to further prejudice and mistreatment. Mydei accepts this as fact, suggesting that he knows just how much his people might suffer from the choice forcing them adapt to a foreign culture's expectations. And yet Mydei excluded himself from that need, and now will likely never--in this life at least--have the opportunity to grow to fit the place he expects his people to one day call home.
The fact that so much of Mydei's story revolves around this conflict between the two halves of his life, his two nations, suggests that this issue did affect him significantly, likely for years. I think it is actually one of the key reasons Mydei struggled so severely with his decision over the Kremnoans' future--and over his own future. If Okhema had accepted Mydei with open arms, treated him with respect and affection, if the holy city had given him a real home for possibly the first time... I don't think the story would be where it is now. Mydei was so willing to give up his own life and freedom at least in part because he felt like he had no other options, and some of that feeling certainly comes from believing he had no place in Okhema. Mydei was convinced that the other Kremnoans would eventually adapt and be accepted by the Okhemans, but I don't believe he ever thought that acceptance would apply to him.
It wasn't just the prophecy that drove Mydei away to Castrum Kremnos.
I think Mydei's character should be best understood as someone who, even while refusing to ever give in to the hurtful comments and behavior of others, was at least very much aware of, and shaped by, a lifetime of discrimination for beliefs he didn't even hold.
10. Stranger Danger/"I Won't Say I'm in Love~"
All right, with those wonderfully depressing points out of the way, why don't I end with some comedic relief? There's one last thing I want to say about Mydei's characterization:
He's kind of shy.
😂😂😂Okay, okay, I'm kidding. Mydei isn't actually shy by the average definition of shy folks (nervous, struggling to assert themselves, cracking under the slightest scrutiny). Mydei isn't going to ever make himself smaller or run away when someone tries to approach him, of course not.
But Mydei is reserved. It seems that he does not usually befriend people easily, is slow to trust, and keeps himself aloof, particularly among those he doesn't know well. It's easy to see this in the flashback from early on in Phainon and Mydei's acquaintance, where his responses to the conversation are exceptionally stand-offish, devolving into just one-word answers to try to free himself from the awkward small talk with a stranger.
One of the places people are most likely to find Mydei in Okhema is withdrawn, keeping to himself all the way up on the farthest corner of the roof. He even flat out asks why the Trailblazer would ignore his obvious wish for alone time. Even in 3.1, when taking a photo with the Trailblazer, Mydei is pretty awkward about it, saying that he doesn't take photos often, which suggests that he doesn't put himself out there much, even on Okhema's World Wound Web. (Maybe he's just hiding behind his cute chimera tiktoks instead; I am a Fig Stew truther lol.)
But I think perhaps the funniest indicator of Mydei's reserved nature are the scenes in Castrum Kremnos in 3.0. Although the Trailblazer is obviously not the most talkative character in Star Rail, Mydei goes almost that entire sequence without speaking more than a single sentence directly to the Trailblazer. Literally, the only line of cutscene dialogue he says to the Trailblazer for an entire two hour sequence of the patch is "Think what you want." Every other line in the entire Castrum Kremnos sequence is instead spoken to Phainon; sometimes he even speaks about the Trailblazer but goes right over Trailblazer's head to talk to them through the medium of Phainon.
Even Mydei's voice lines start with bare bones, one-word answers; his greeting to the Trailblazer is just "Mhm," despite clearly having no issues speaking full sentences to people he knows better.
Mydei really said "I don't talk to strangers."
Which, honestly? Totally fair of him. When you're an exile from your homeland which is ruled by a king who tried to kill you and every single other surviving nation on the planet hates your guts, it's not like a lot of the strangers you meet are going to end up being friendly. Mydei has obvious reasons to be aloof and to withhold his thoughts from people until he's certain he can trust them. He even has reasons to not be that well adjusted; the first nine years of his life were spent with virtually no human contact, and then even after that, he was taken in by the Kremnoan exiles who were already predisposed to support him no matter what his ability to connect with others was like. It's perfectly understandable for Mydei to not be the most talented social speaker and to tend to keep to himself.
But it's also just so humorous in practice--an undying prince of a conquering nation, one of the lead warriors of Okhema, rife with the pride of Castrum Kremnos, refined in both body and manner... And he's just awkward with people he doesn't know well. As much as it might be influenced by a tragic past, it's also a charm point.
Hell, Mydei's a little bit awkward even with people he does know well, at least when it comes to trying to express himself. Of course, the bath scene is the best example of this. Mydei comes up with literally five different options for things to say to Phainon and then ultimately scraps them all because "None of those sound right." (What he goes with in the end honestly isn't any better lol.)
Mydei was clearly trying his best to find the correct words, and the fact that he hesitated over picking the "right" answer tells us that he's not always as confident in communicating with others as he might initially come across. He's not just trying to come up with the first thing possible--he's trying to find the right thing to say because he is considerate and invested in in being understood by those he actually cares about. Krateros accuses Mydei of using words alone to try to end the Kremnoan dynasty, but the truth is that if Mydei were better at expressing himself--more eloquent and more persuasive--he likely would have faced less opposition for his beliefs.
When characterizing Mydei, I think he reads very much as the kind of person who can say the exact right thing in the exact right moment when it comes to, say, earth-shattering duels with the gods--the kind of person who can speak with poise if there's a challenging political or martial situation afoot. But in closer settings? In those personal conversations where he can't assume a distant, military commander stance and fall back on the expected answers of a warrior prince? The places where what he says really matters, emotionally, to the person on the other side? A lot tougher battlefield.
I think Mydei really is someone who comes across as distinctly reserved--not always because he's aloof or untrusting, but because sometimes he just doesn't know what to say or how to say the things he's feeling and thinking. It's cute, okay?
And you know what else is cute?
It's true that Mydei isn't classically shy, but his marketing has shown us that there is one scenario that he absolutely can't handle: Mydei can't even hear the word "romance" without getting flustered. (The gap moe is so, so real; I am not immune to your propaganda, Hoyo...)
In the 3.1 special program, just the rumor that Nikador once had amorous feelings is enough to leave Mydei stuttering, and in his weibo animation, when the "princess" demands that Mydei act charming, he completely falls apart, so much that he can't even get the sentences out straight and blurs them into a nonsensical mess.
Mydei, fistfighting a god: For me, it was Tuesday.
Mydei, being asked on a date: This is how it ends.
I know it's popular to make jokes about Mydei having his harem, but honestly, if just hearing the word "pretty" makes him panic, I'm not sure how he would ever have managed it. 🤣
Of course, this gets even funnier when we remember that Mydei is also the male character who most consistently brings up talks about emotions and the importance of recognizing and embracing them, who chides Phainon for trying to hide his sadness during their goodbye, and who casually drops half of Amphoreus's most romantic lines. Mr. "If there's chance in the next life, you should come visit my library" can't handle "Do you wanna dance together?"
Make of all this what you will; I don't have a deeper meta analysis of this that wouldn't be better put in a ship post, but in terms of characterization, I think the way Mydei communicates, struggles to communicate, and the places where his communication completely breaks down are all great indicators of the overall person the dev team was trying to convey:
Someone who cares for other people, even more than he cares for himself, but who still, and perhaps always, longed to find a place to belong, loved ones to come home to, and those who will listen to both the words he says and the ones he can't quite get out.
Mydei isn't a brawn over brains brute whose temper pops off every single time he gets mildly annoyed, or someone who lives his whole life in the training arena and takes every chance he can to start petty arguments. He isn't especially grumpy, machismo, or repressing his feelings, even when he's not always capable of realizing just how justified those feelings are. He's not unnecessarily aggressive or particularly rash, and he's definitely not dumb muscle. He is self-sacrificial to a fault...
But he is also a character of true extremes, combining an incredible capacity for violence with a longing for peace, a desire to do his duty to others while still wanting to keep something for himself, a pragmatist who understood the futility of fighting fate while still, deep down, harboring the idealized dream of a kinder future. He is the one who always asks to talk, but also struggles to find the right words; the one who embodies every tenet of his people's faith, only to reject everything that faith stood for.
Mydeimos, the crown prince of Castrum Kremnos, and Mydei, just the warrior of Okhema.
The man that you are. ❤️
One of my favorite Star Rail characters, beyond a doubt.
Seriously, it kills me when I see people hold scientists up as pinnacles of logic and reason.
Because one time the professor I was interning for got punched in the face by another professor, because mine got the funding, and told the other professor his theory was stupid.
This same professor told me to throw rocks to scare the “stupid fucking crabs” into moving so we could count them properly.
Two professors hiding around a corner and snickering, “Shhh, here she comes!” While a female professor approached and, when she finally found them, she proceeded to scream while pointing from one to the other, “You! I called your office but you weren’t there! So I tried to call YOUR office to figure out where HE was but YOU weren’t there!”
Two grad students standing outside a closed and locked door yelling, “Come out of the damn office. You haven’t left for days. If you didn’t have a couch in there I’d be concerned as to where you were sleeping!”
A religious studies professor apologizing for being late to class because, “security stopped me because I’m dressed like a hobbit”
Watched a professor snort the results of my experiment to determine if I had the right final compound.
Two archeology professors toss priceless fossilized teeth back and forth in an attempt to figure out who is smarter by “guessing the type of tooth and species of animal before it lands”
Multiple fully degreed individuals throw dry ice at one another in an attempt to be first to use the lab/get that piece of equipment/or change the iPod song.
A genetics professor build furniture out of stacks of paper and planks of wood because she is that far behind in grading papers/responding. One of the impromptu furniture pieces housed a fish tank.
I could go on but I think that covers the larger portion of the insanity…
- I have had a professor buy a huge fuckoff bottle of rum during fieldwork in Costa Rica and let the undergrads get wasted because “you’re not underage in Costa Rica and we’ll be up all night with the bats anyway!”
- Same professor hung a bat from her headlamp and wore it as a decoration for an entire night.
- A whole swarm of older women - and these are women with PhDs and world-renown bat experts, the bigwigs - all, to a woman, go to the formal charity dinner at an international research symposium in Toronto in late October dressed in skimpy Batgirl costumes. Because Halloween was that weekend, you see.
- At a different conference, a professor get blackout drunk and pass out on the side of the road.
- “Yeah, we have to say we did it properly for the grant but to be really honest, Miracle-gro works better.”
- Teaching lab: we had liquid nitrogen for a demo, and after class the professor, the other TA, and I spent a good two hours freezing and breaking things in it.
a chemistry class begins with 30 students nine months later just six of us left sitting on tables dipping paper into contaminated chemicals to see what happens when we burn it teacher making idle suggestions while he marks our work
“go to the fume hood thing, yeah now put some potassium in chlorine” can i burn the results sir? “fuck it sure whatever its tainted anyway”
The prof I’m working for just asked me if I knew how to pick a lock, and when I responded “yes” she replied, “see, this is why I hire the former delinquents instead of the suck-ups. You’re actually useful.”
“Security stopped me because I’m dressed like a hobbit.” I would bet anything this has happened to Dr. Medievalist.
Semi-related non-academic anecdote: The concert hall security guys tried to throw out our violone player in between performances this spring because they thought he was a homeless guy. Despite the fact that he was wearing concert black… and carrying a violone. There is no more obvious instrument.
One of my English Professors admitted that sometimes “you just have to do a soliloquy” and would phone up the main office of the department on the internal phoneline to recite a Shakespearean monologue at them. No greeting, no warning, just “To be or not to be”.
we were once tasked to create a chemical reaction and then set the fumes alight in my sophomore chemistry class. she did not tell us that lighting oxygen is FUCKING LOUD.
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ok no the fact that flame reaver most likely has some connection to mydei is legitimately driving me nuts because there is no way the moon/sun/eclipse imageries are merely a coincidence now that they are a relevant motif in mydei’s character trailer. all of which continues to support what i have been inferring re:the golden scapegoat lore. too many things for it to be just by chance. this is how flamedei can be real
This's just a rumor but who else in Amphoreus matched such specific descriptions (a man in black with a sword who speaks strangely)
This boy who was so talkative and bright. Who was able to win numberous debates now so isolated that he's hardly able to talk ...