I want to compare a scene from Hazbin to a somewhat similar scene from Avatar. They’re extremely different, but they both regard the shows general conflict of violence vs peace.
In “The southern Raiders” we get this exchange about whether or not Katara should have killed Yon Rah.
Aang: Zuko told me what you did. Or what you didn't do, I guess. I'm proud of you.
Katara: I wanted to do it. I wanted to take out all my anger at him, but I couldn't. I don't know if it's because I'm too weak to do it or because I'm strong enough not to.
Aang: You did the right thing. Forgiveness is the first step you have to take to begin healing.
Katara: But I didn't forgive him. I'll never forgive him.
This exchange is hardly perfect. The showrunners infamously said that Aang was being her moral compass here, which is just not the truth at all, and we get this sort of implication afterwards that it would have been bad for her if she’d made the other choice.
But even with all that aside, it’s an interesting and mature moment. The episode almost sets up a whole “I am imparting the lesson” moment with Aang saying Katara choosing to leave Yon Rah alive was the right thing, and that forgiveness is good. But she doesn’t decide “You’re right, I did the right thing.” she says “But I didn’t forgive him” and just like that the dichotomy of the episode is broken. She didn’t choose revenge OR forgiveness. And that’s okay.
But in the end, Avatar’s debate was pitched at 12 year olds, it had no choice but to bluntly tell you that obviously it would have been bad to kill someone. Anyone who’s treating Avatar as the height of mature storytelling needs to broaden their horizons. Hazbin by contrast should be able to explore these ideas with much more respect and maturity. I mean there’s no one stopping them, so they should at least be able to lean more towards challenging the audience. Right? Right?
Anyway here’s a scene from “new pentious” about whether or not we should go to war or seek redemption.
Vaggie: Are any of you here for redemption?
Female Guest #1: I thought this hotel was where we came to kill angels.
Female Guest #2: Yeah, who cares about redemption? That sounds like work.
Charlie: No. I-I know angels aren't like, the best, but we shouldn't kill them. We need to be better than them, right?
Female Guest #2: [Gasps] Oh, my God!
This exchange is fucking stupid.
Notice how before, it was Aang and Katara. Two named characters who were invited to feel equal amounts of sympathy for, presented in as respectful a manner possible by the narrative, both of their perspectives taken seriously. This sequence has Charlie bouncing her ideology off of an unnamed figure who is portrayed as vapid and lazy. She’s not angry, she’s not even bloodthirsty, she’s just too lazy not to kill her oppressors.
And the conversation does not even consider the idea that you can be a better person AND fight the Angels, even though Charlie literally did that last season. And I am not cherry picking. This comedy sequence is one of the only times this debate happens. The character of Vox does not get debated on the issue, he simply speaks over everyone while they uselessly sputter “that’s not true” over and over again.
And the comedy of this scene is specifically used to have Charlie and her ideology presented as the straight man to the crazy people who disagree. This does not happen in Avatar in ANY scene involving a moral dilemma. Even if you could argue an episode is being biased, it never presents an ideology as a funny joke except on the great divide, understood to be the worst episode of the show, and one that never carried over into the rest of the show. That argument over redemption vs war is the central conflict of the series.
That’s right, Hazbin is less mature in its handling of its themes than a show for twelve year olds