Byler is a horrible and forced ship. Whoever disagrees with me is RIGHT.

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@bylersthewise
Byler is a horrible and forced ship. Whoever disagrees with me is RIGHT.

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Guys, I realize people are coping with a lot of feelings, but don't use that as a jumping off point for further disappointment.
There is no implication Mike is closeted. They slammed the door shut on that when they made his entire finale arc about him being terrified to lose El.
Mike is sad at the end, as they all are, because the only hope they have for El being alive is Mike's suggestion that she used trickery to escape. But it means that, even if she did get out, they will never see her again. They're also moving on from their childhood, with an implication that this might be their last ever D&D session before they go their separate ways and, quite possibly, never see each other again (except for Lucas and Max).
I think the whole escape story is ridiculous and contrived. Kali didn't create an illusion to make people think she was bleeding out. That was real, even in Mike's story version of it you can see the blood stain. I can't say I have the expertise to know how long someone in that condition would last, but surely it's not as long as she had. And that doesn't even call into question how El got far enough away from the kryptonite to be able to use her powers, while also contacting Kali to have her create an illusion from quite a distance away. Even if she somehow managed that, it's quite the leap of logic to assume Kali would have the strength to do it.
It reads a lot better as Mike's own coping strategy, right up to El just happening to find a place with waterfalls. Let's not even bother getting into how she would have managed to get somewhere with no ID, money, or other resources. That just adds onto the suggestion that none of the stories Mike tells are necessarily looks into what actually happens in the future.
They legit made Mike's character entirely centered on El, a girl he met when he was 12, who he inexplicably fell in love with while searching for his missing best friend.
But they didn't explain why he always treated Will so much differently than anyone else, including her.
They didn't explain why he was such a crappy boyfriend to her in two consecutive seasons. No repressed homosexuality, just an emotionally stunted teen.
They didn't reveal anything about the painting lie. Will actually did successfully save their relationship by giving El credit for his own feelings. Mike may well still believe she commissioned the painting.
They didn't address why their relationship was so sketchy in season 5. I suppose the implication is that, in a switch from season 4, El was the one holding back this time, being too obsessed with stopping Vecna, with Mike desperately waiting for her to give him what he wants. There is an implication that she's the one who couldn't say "I love you" this time around.
They didn't give Will any character depth. At the end of it all, he was just "the gay one." Even his art skills were only incidental to the plot, giving him the ability to draw things out to advance the story. The one time is was used for his own character development was with the painting, and we saw how that ended for him. Even his ending story didn't include that aspect of his personality. They could just as easily shown Will meeting a boy in an art class or something.
They didn't give Will's connection to the Upside Down or his trauma any significant attention. His sorcerer powers were just an extension of his existing Vecna radar, and the only addressing of his trauma was his "you were just a kid, like" moment. There was never anything special about Will. He was just an unlucky kid who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
They didn't appropriately handle his feelings for Mike. Despite, by all logic and reasoning, getting over Mike at the end of season 4, he had hope again in season 5. They could have, and should have, ending that part of his story then and there, continuing with struggling to accept himself. It would've worked still with the whole Tammy thing, as, now knowing Mike would never love him back, Will would have been struggling worse than ever. But, no, they had him become hopeful to the point that he hit on Mike, his best friend who he knew full well was dating his sister. They seriously left it at an implied confession with an unspoken rejection. The whole "best friends" bit wasn't even originally in the script. It was just going to abruptly end with Will's coming out.
So, yeah, a ton doesn't make sense (and that's just with this one aspect of the story, I have a lot of other criticisms). But that doesn't mean we should be wasting our energy trying to rationalize it all. It's over now, and it's time to move on. At the end of the day, the Duffers either fell ass backwards into all of this subtext, or it was intentionally done to make us think Will had a chance just as he did. I honestly can't even be sure of which one.
So, don't try to make sense of it all. It's just a fool's errand.
What was the point of El being described as looking like a boy? Who knows, but it's not what we thought.
What was the point of Mike being utterly incapable of having both El and Will in his life? Who knows, but it's not what we thought.
What was the point of having Mike feel unable to be himself with El, but coming back to himself when Will got fed up with the charade? Who knows, but it's not what we thought.
What was the point of the repeated closet imagery, up to the point of Mike's closet getting obliterated? Who knows, but it's not what we thought.
What was the point of Mike not writing to Will and then getting nervous about the painting at the airport? Who knows, but it's not what we thought.
What was the point of Mike needing Will's feelings to be able to give El the love she wanted? Who knows, but it's not what we thought.
The subtext was always there, but I guess it was always an accident. It ends up depicting Mike as someone who was just a real shitty best friend and boyfriend, nearly destroying both relationships in the process. It would've been such a great reveal to learn that he was just quietly dealing with internalized homophobia as he attempted to force himself to be normal, but that's not what it was.
And what will probably really twist the knife is that the Tales from '85 spinoff will likely try to retcon Mike and El's relationship as one that was much healthier than ever depicted on the show.
But that shouldn't mean people feel compelled to try to "fix" any of this. By all means, if you enjoy writing fanfics or drawing fanart, enjoy creating some AU stuff. I wouldn't dream of stifling someone's creativity, and it can be helpful to the healing process. The pain we feel is legit, after all. Many of us have become very emotionally attached to these characters and the story we thought we were being told. Having such good representation on a mainstream hit show would have been such a breath of fresh air, a real big step for popular media, as a whole.
But, please, do not let yourself be taken in by theories that there's something still there. They weren't prevented from telling the story they wanted to tell. They didn't leave any bread crumbs to follow. So, don't let yourself obsess over trying to make sense of it by reading between lines that aren't even there.
well yes
A golden ticket for every member of my fav community
Calling it now, next episode we'll have a scene of Mike sitting down talking to Will about his new powers (considering Mike is THE person who locked eyes with him upon the revelation + he's the one who TOLD Will he might have powers, this convo HAS to happen) & Mike gets all googly eyed blabbering about how cool it is that Will can do that and Will jokingly says "Oh so I wasn't cool before?" in that newly acquired cheeky & flirty confidence he exhibited when he shoved Mike's chest in ep 4, and Mike gets all panicked and flustered and says "No! I mean, of course you were!" and starts going on a ramble about everything that has ALWAYS been cool and amazing about Will, only to suddenly realize Will is smiling at him trying not to laugh & Mike realizes "oh. You were joking." and Will laughs and Mike realizes fuck. Fuck fuck

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A real Byler never speaks ill of my baby
I just want to remind everyone that Will Byers, at 12 years old, hungry, exhausted, terrified, managed to elude a demogorgon and its psychic master for the better part of a week. This likely wasn't due to luck, either. This boy shot a demogorgon in the face when most adults would be frozen in fear. He wasn't going down without a fight.
One has to keep in mind that this is the first thing they wanted us to see about the final season. They wanted us to know two things before we got into the action:
Will is important, for reasons we don't yet know (and he probably doesn't either).
Will is a survivor, resilient and resourceful, not the weak "annoying" kid a lot of people made him out to be.
there's absolutely no fucking way that “you think I'm a monster too” is winning over “but you make me feel like I'm not a mistake at all, like I'm better for being different.”
there's absolutely no fucking way that “its not fate, it's not destiny, it's just simple dumb luck” is winning over “it was the best thing I've ever done.”
there's absolutely no fucking way that “you never say it” “i say it” is winning over “i didn't say it” “you didn't have to.”
there is absolutely NO. FUCKING. WAY. That “she’s gonna realize that she doesn't need me anymore” is winning over “so, yeah, I need you, mike, and I always will.”
It's so obvious which ship should be endgame???
just did seven billion lines of will byers main character cocaine and it feels FANTASTIC

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Bylers watching Mike and Will kiss during 5x08: guys this is giving me byler doubt 😔😔😔😔
This is so real.
@nobylerdoubt better buckle up.
The Great Byler Shift
There's been a quite a bit more drama lately in the Mileven/Byler "war," yes. But has anyone noticed the discourse starting to shift away from "Bylers are delusional" toward "the show would be ruined if Byler happens"?
Like there low-key is a growing acceptance of the possibility that Byler will happen.
A recent TikTok:
WHY IS THIS??
First, the last few months have seen a spate of new Byler creators! The fanbase is becoming more and more confident in expressing our views.
But I think people can probably guess the most recent precipitating events:
The new sunset/sunrise footage of Mike and El. We canNOT tell much from teaser footage because we don't have context. But for those of us who'd been following the discourse from toxic Milev"ns, they were SO SURE that the leaked footage of Finn and Millie on a rooftop was a purely positive romantic scene. (Some mentioning a village and waterfalls!) But El's complex expression in the teaser and the sunset/sunrise imagery (strongly implying transition and change) made clear that it's more than it seems. To go from near certainty about that scene to seeing this HAS to shake them and question everything they'd been so confident about before.
The "Dinner with who?" teaser. If the creators are openly teasing a love triangle, then this SHATTERS everything Milev*ns have been saying. There was supposed to be ZERO possibility of Byler because "Mike is straight" and the whole romantic plot supposedly ended with Mike confessing his love. In the comments to Matt Multiverse's new TikTok (which is about to hit 2 million views btw), the pushback isn't "your delusional" -- it's "Finn said his mom so..." They're actually engaging in a debate! Can you believe the character growth?! /hk And interestingly, most of the commenters don't give a damn about the Mileven/Byler war and are freaking out about Steve and El dying. Believe it or not, most of the audience is apathetic toward the Byler/Milev*n war. And that's exactly where the Duffers wanted people to be coming out of Season 4.
If the show creators continue to not dispel the Byler rumors and continue to TEASE the audience, and as broader and broader sections of the General Audience start talking about the possibility, the next phase of the Great Byler Shift will be various shitty people crying that ST "is gonna go woke" and saying "it was forced." And that's what VICTORY looks like, because they've already started to accept it probably happens. And once Byler happens, the Duffers are almost certainly going to go on record showing how they prepared Byler from Seasons 1/2 and this will be CONFIRMED. The haters really will have nothing to stand on. Like the doomed people on the Titanic, the only thing left to do with your sinking ship is to scream.
They will be shitty, sure. But know this: after 30 years in radical politics I say with certainty: the people with prejudice and bigotry on their side are ALWAYS louder and more arrogant given the numbers they represent.
I'm certain that if Byler is explicitly hinted in Volume 1, then the majority of viewers will see it'll be so much more satisfying than Mileven ever was, which left many feeling tepid.
If Matt Multiverse, a straight guy, can go from saying "It was always Mileven" to being genuinely giddy talking about Byler...
... If Andrew from Reel Rejects (a large reaction channel with 1.4 million subscribers) can say "Look at these adorable love birds" and "I'm telling ya, I feel like these two are gonna get it on" about Mike and Will in their recent reaction to 4x8 (at timestamp) ...
... then we KNOW that the General Audience will do what it almost always does: it follows and cheers for the relationships in fiction that the writers have properly made you want to cheer for. They cheered for Robin and Steve being a platonic instead of romantic relationship. They will cheer for Mike and El being one as well. They will cheer for Will -- the boy who's accepted he's unworthy of love -- getting the love of his life.
I think late 2024 already saw the cracks in the Milev*n armor, with Noah's "you couldn't tell if it was romantic" slip-up at Upside Down Con. But I think we're about to see entire parts of the armor start to fall.
-teambyler
Byler Doubt™
There is not a SINGLE MOLECULE in my body that has Byler Doubt bro, It’s actually alarming 😬 My spleen? Byler. My left pinky toe? Byler. My mitochondria? Powered by Zesty Bowl Cut Boy crying in a van.
I could never write “If the Duffer Brothers don’t make Byler canon it will be so stu—” STOP. DELETE. REJECT. I don’t even allow that thought to RENT SPACE in my brain.
The only UNIVERSE where Byler isn't canon is the one where Barb is alive and Vecna works at Starbucks 😭
s5 almost kiss would go crazy…
I genuinely think that after ST5 all us Bylers should get together and like... solve a cold case or smt, I think we'd be good at that

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here are some friendly reminders incase you had byler doubt
the duffers are not bad writers
the duffers have never written an unrequited love trope that spanned past one season
the blocking of the final shot of s4
the duffers didn't need to make will in love with mike to write an effective arc about his sexuality
mike and el's relationship is at a standstill
mike needs to be needed, and will always will need mike
el needs/wants independence, which clashes with my previous point
mike and will spend most of their time with each other this season
noah said something 'finally goes right' for will this season
finn said that mike's cluelessness in the van scene will 'pay off'
it took 12 hours to film the van scene (a 3 minute scene), meanwhile the duffers told finn to add whatever he wanted to mike's monologue, and the majority of it was improvised
the duffers could very easily come out and deny any possibility of byler happening, but they won't
whenever the cast is asked about mike and wills relationship in season 5, they stumble around the question, claiming they are trying to avoid spoilers
noah is a gay man, and therefore, likely understands how much queerbaiting sucks, and would most likely not participate in queerbating
homophobic comments about will in season 1 were always directed towards to mike
el did not understand what a romantic relationship was in the 1st season when mike kissed her, and therefore, the relationship is not stable or healthy
during mike and will's fight in rink o mania, the song playing in the background is quite literally called in the closet
the duffers are extremely detailed, and it is extremely unlikely that any tiny details pointed out as 'byler proof' are just coincidences
the outfit that mike shows up in at the airport is said to be 'a shitty knockoff' basically calling cali mike a shitty knockoff of the real mike (ty argyle)
the objective romantic tension of mike and will's scenes. ex: crazy together, i didn't say it/you didn't have to, 'we will' in s4 epilogue
mike constantly looking at wills lips (which is definitely intentional, unless finn has a crush on noah, lmao)
mike being able to hug dustin perfectly normal during eddies campaign in 4x01, but suddenly becoming awkward about hugging will the literal next day
mike straight up lied in his monologue when he told el that he loved her from the moment he saw her. in reality, mike wanted to send her to penhurst (a literal mental institution), and was truly only concerned about finding will
when will went missing, mike immediately went out looking for him, and continued looking for him after receiving proof he wasn't dead. yet, after literally seeing el after she had supposedly 'died' all he did was try and call her for like 3 minutes every night
mike's character is generally considered to be very likable in s1 and s2 when he's not in a relationship with el, but 'insufferable' in s3 and s4 when he is in a relationship with el
after being el says 'i love you too' to mike in s3 epilogue, he does not reciprocate, keeps his eyes open, and ends the scene looking disgusted and confused
in s3, after el broke up with mike, max says that mike is going to be running to her, begging her to take him back, implying this is how you're supposed to deal with a fight in a romantic context. however, mike does not do this. instead, he makes lays around in his basement and makes misogynistic comments about women. however, after he gets into a fight with will, he bikes across town in a thunder storm just to apologize to will.
"our son with a girl?" -ted wheeler
in his book, dustin states that el and mike never seemed to have anything to talk about with each other. in contrast, will states "talking to you is always easy" in his letter to mike
while talking about mike and wills relationship, noah said "you could never really tell if it was something romantic or just a really special friendship" meaning that you are supposed to question the closeness of mike and will's relationship
giving will a bf/love interest that is not mike in s5 would simply be lazy writing
mike rejecting will would not give any purpose to the plotline of will being in love with mike
no characters in the show actually like m*leven
while talking about lucas and max's relationship, caleb said "it's not like mike and eleven, it's real"
in s4, m*leven is paralleled to st*ncy, while byler is paralleled to jancy
might add to this later if i remember anything else
“Its not like Mike and Eleven, its real” HES CRAZY FOR THAT HOLY SHITTLE TITTLEBERRIES
how it feels opening byler tumblr every morning