I've seen people interpret this as them being in the TCM, and I don't doubt they might have hung out with some members (Chris Morris, for example). Because the TCM wasn't an official group, it didn't matter who was "in" or not. Therefore, it's easy to dismiss Dylan and Eric. It's also possible Eric and Dylan were viewed differently by the group, as they appeared to have a different perspective than the rest of the TCM.

Besides this, Dylan might have looked up to the TCM for their self-expression and unapologetic nature, which Joe Stair seemed to embody. I have seen sources that say he was bisexual, but his sexual identity doesn't matter in this context. The incident of him and Eric Dutro allegedly grabbing each other and making out in front of jocks was provocative and unapologetic, regardless of his identity. If this was his way of acting, it could have influenced the type of person Dylan wanted to be.

Joe was interviewed after Columbine; he smiled and chuckled, which didn't help the third-person shooter theory. However, this could simply be nervousness or fear. A seemingly forgotten detail is that Joe was actively blamed for the mass murder, both directly and indirectly credited as a force behind the shooting. He would undoubtedly react in some way.

Note that he was later interviewed in a Japanese Trench Coat Mafia documentary where he seemed much calmer.

I don't think there isn't any truth to the third-person shooter theory. I personally think some TCM members knew more than they let on. For example, the jokes about shooting up the place or hurting people might in reality have sounded different than TCM members are letting on (this is speculation, though).

They wouldn't share this information while being blamed. These were teenagers, more than just stereotypical "goth" kids who enjoyed nerdy/odd things. They were already shunned, and I can only imagine how they felt during the reconstructed temporary satanic panic of 1999 after Columbine.

I don't have a conclusion besides mentioning Joe's impact on Dylan, maybe Eric, and Columbine itself. So take my open thoughts and process them however you want.

Be respectful

“I am a former member of the Trench Coat Mafia. Ask me Anything.”

Q(1):

How strange is it getting older? Does high school even feel like it really happened?

A:

It’s really weird. I doubt I’ve peaked as a person yet but it still kinda feels like my glory days are behind me.

It feels normal whenever I think about normal stuff, but whenever i remember that I’m part of a lore surrounding one of the most infamous schools in America, I kinda start to dissociate.

Q(2):

Do you know about or follow r/columbine ?

A:

I’m subscribed to the sub on my main account, and I follow it, but I never comment on anything because

1. I don’t want people to dig up info on my from my personal account and

2. I doubt anyone would believe me without me doing a whole lot of explaining, which I’m doing here. I cross posted this post there and it should be approved by the mods soon, so who knows? Maybe I’ll start to be able to inform people better.

Q(2):

I had crossposted this post to that sub a few minutes ago and it’s showing up, but would be nicer to see it posted from you. If yours shows up I will delete my cross-post’

A:

Thanks.

Q(3):

Did you really call yourselves the trench coat mafia? Were you there on the day of the shooting? What happened from your perspective if you were? What were Dylan and Eric like?

A:

According to our “mythos” some guy older than us wore a trench coat to school one day and a few people started copying him. One day some kid sarcastically asked them if they were a “Trench Coat Mafia” and the name stuck. So yes, to answer that question.

Nope. Skipping class to smoke weed and watch TV like a bunch of kids were doing that day.

This is the big one. Dylan was a real intimidating looking guy on the outside, but didn’t seem that threatening if you actually talked to him. The guy radiated intelligence and I believed for some time that he was some kind of savant due to his problem solving ability. He would literally be one of the last people I expected to go postal like that. Eric, on the other hand, was just a standard guy. Real talkative and charismatic. Lots of girls liked him even though he wasn’t anywhere near the top of the social hierarchy and I’m sure he was aware of it. I remember another guy in TCM telling me that brooks brown had reported him to the police because he threatened to kill his entire family or something but I didn’t believe it because brooks sort of had a reputation as a compulsive liar. After the shooting though, I realized there were probably signs of narcissism or a god complex that I just didn’t pick up.

Q(3):

Thanks for answering. This is fascinating to me, I got very involved in this case a few years back. Did you ever know the shooters family or home life? I’m mostly interested in Eric, as his parents did not speak out or anything after the incident. Did any of your friends get injured in the shooting

A:  

You’re welcome.

Never met the Harris’s or Dylan’s dad but I did meet Dylan’s mom a couple of times. I would seriously consider her one of the nicest ladies I ever met. I still feel terrible for her getting blamed for the shooting because it truly wasn’t her fault Dylan turned out the way he did.

I had a few acquaintances get hurt, no real friends, although I assume due to how closely knit our friend group was they would’ve been aiming for them.

Q(4):

 How was the situation with weed at Columbine? Did only certain groups smoked or did everyone and how easy was it to get?

A:

Weed was very easy to get, lots of people would literally sell inside the school (myself included). As for how many people were smoking weed regularly, I wanna say maybe 20% of the entire student population during the time I went to school there.

Q(4):

Thank you for taking the time to anwser, i had a few more questions regarding this topic if you would like to anwser them. Do you still smoke weed? What was the usual place where everyone would smoke? Did most people just smoked joints or bongs? And what did the other students think of the people who smoked weed?

Thanks in advance

A:

Yes

Wherever we could but usually a house (preferably without parents

Joints were easier to conceal but bongs still popped up from time to time.

The stoners were pretty much ignored by everyone else. I do remember when we got into a fight with the jocks once they teamed up with us and we whipped them. But otherwise, it was a pretty standard clique.

Q(4):

Thanks for the reply ! One more question about the group photo of the trenchcoat mafia, why are Dylan and Eric not on the picture?

A:

 They weren’t official “members” but they still hung out with us.

Q(2):

Do you still stay in touch with Sue K?

A:

I’ve seen her in passing once, but I just nodded to her. If I see her again I might strike up a conversation.

Q(5):

Are you still known as the "Kid that used to be part of the same group as the Columbine shooters" there in Littleton?

A:

Yes, but people hardly ever talk about it.

Q(6):

Do you think Chris Morris or anyone else knew it was gonna happen? He always seemed particularly suspicious to me. I assume that E&D asked him to participate and he said no and didn't believe they actually would do it. It would be crazy to me if nobody was told of the plans beforehand in a manner like that

A:

Fuck yes. Chris and some of the other guys were acting all weird starting in February, and a person who shall remain unnamed tried to get me to make pipe bombs under the pretense that they were going to "Blow stumps out of the ground". I refused, obviously.

I maintain to this day that some members of the TCM helped them plan the shooting and gather materials based on their behavior over those last couple months and how they were talking about some "event". If they were actually in the school? I don't know. I'm open to this theory based on what i know, and if anyone wants to give me some info or theories or whatever i might be able to link some stuff together. I know Pat Mcduffee tried telling me about how there were more people involved but i didn't really listen to him because i was still grieving Eric and Dylan.

Edit: I just remembered that Chris's mom was a cop. Really makes you think.

Q(7):

Do you believe the “Basement Tapes” were really destroyed? or know anything about the basement tapes?

A:

Honestly, I think Jeffco is just saying they were destroyed to get everyone off their back. I have no idea why they won’t release them, as the “copycat” excuse is complete bullshit because they made no effort to censor Eric’s webpages that literally had working instructions to build pipe bombs in them.

I hope someone is able to leak them or has a copy laying around somewhere, because they need to be released. I never saw them, but I repeatedly asked to and was denied several times.

Q(8):

Do you still live in the area?

A:

Around there, yes.

Q(9):

Did you all did activities like practicing with guns, or only some of you ?

I already met young and older people who dresses in black, but just hang out, without messing with others.

Black Trench coats where a trend in the 80's and 90's.

Did you regularly dress in black, or just wear the coats as school ?

Black clothing and trench coats still are stigmatized these days.

Note: I do care about the victims, not just the fashion stuff.

A:

Only some of us would. There were lots of members that couldn’t handle any violence. The go to location was a place over in Douglas county on a mountain, which is where Eric and Dylan filmed the “rampart range” video. I can actually point out a tree I shot with a sawn off in the first 30 seconds. Also, I assume they both got the pipe bomb idea from us, considering we would make those and ignite them out in the mountains and Chris was the first one to tell them that.

Regularly. Some of us didn’t actually wear all black along with our trench coats. I remember one guy would sometimes wear a tie-dye shirt under it. I doubt it was really about the color and more of just the way we wanted to be seen. I could’ve probably worn a brown one and been accepted.

Q(10):

what do you think about the “condoners” of the shooting?

edit: if i was unclear, i mean like the tumblr fangirls and edgy potential school shooters

A:

I can understand it, as it probably comes from a place of thinking they could fix them or prevent them from doing what they did. However, I doubt that if they were actually there at columbine as high school students they would’ve of even cared about them. Where I draw the line, though, is when you start to believe they were innocent or what they did was a good thing. It’s fine to be interested and research something, but it’s not okay to glorify or condone something like that.

Q(11):

 DELETED COMMENT

A:

Yes. Bullying culture at columbine was fucking awful and it had to have played a part in the shooting. Jocks once tossed a cup of horse shit on them and threw tampons soaked in ketchup at them. Brooks brown got hit in the head with a baseball bat by some jocks in a truck. They would literally try to set people clothes on fire.

And the big thing was, the school administration wouldn’t do shit about. I’m sorry, but at that time, CHS staff wouldn’t do shit if you were being bullied unless parents involved and made a scene. There was a case of a jock stalking some girl and her having to get a restraining order, and the school still tried to get him a football scholarship. I apologize for getting angry, but it still enrages me to this day the amount of bullshit that the kids the teachers liked got away with.

Q(12):

I got to watch Frank Deangelis speak at a conference several months ago. He's a very compelling speaker. What's your opinion of him, especially given the culture at Columbine at the time of the shooting?

Thanks for doing this!! I'm a school shooting witness/survivor and know just how hard it can be to speak up about.

A:

He’s obviously a changed man since the years before the shooting, and having 12 kids and a teacher die in the school you’re responsible for will do that.

I respect him for making that vow to stay as the principal all these years but It doesn’t take away from his inaction towards bullying beforehand.

Q(13):

Was bullying really bad at Columbine? Did you ever see Eric or Dylan get bullied? Did you ever see them bully anyone?

Did you know any of the victims or anyone who was injured?

Do you remember anything specific about them? Not in general, I mean like a time you hung out with them, a conversation you had with them, etc? Anything that really sticks out after the massacre?

What was Eric and Dylan’s friendship like? Did either seem to be influenced by or copy the other?

A:

Already answered that somewhere else.

Already answered. A couple of acquaintances.

Eric actually told a bunch of people his plans to bomb the school but I didn’t take it seriously. I might elaborate in an extra comment because I’m not in a really comfortable position to be making super long comments right now. As for Dylan, a couple of months before the massacre, I remember he asked me what i thought happened after we died while listening to Siamese Dream in his car. I replied that I assumed we just found some sort of peace and got to hang out with a bunch of other dead people and just chill. He told me that he hopes that it’s some kind of beautiful trip across the universe that you get to take with the people you love.

They just seemed like best friends. I thought it was kinda weird that they had so many differences yet were so close with each other, but I guess they hand their plans for a rampage tying them together.

Q(14):

At the time, did you expect Eric and Dylan to amass such a huge following like they have today?

What were you thinking when Sol Pais flew up to the Denver area and bought a shotgun a few days before the 20th anniversary, causing schools across the area to shut down?

A:

No. Didn’t even think they would be household names.

I felt bad for her. No one in the right state of mind buys a shotgun and threatens to shoot up a school for no reason.

Q(15):

Are you still friends with the other Trench Coat Mafia members ? What music did you guys listen to?

A:

The whole group dissolved after the shooting and I heavily distanced myself after I started to believe that they knew more about the massacre than they were letting on. I still know a handful of guys who were associates but a huge chunk of the actual TCM just fell off the map after 4/20.

There wasn’t a standard musical genre for the group. Vaguely, most of the members like industrial music and nu metal. Dylan liked NIN, and the chemical brothers. Eric like Rammstein and KMFDM. Eric liked some NIN songs but didn’t find them enthralling enough for him. Dylan was more open to different musical genres and I let him borrow one of my Slowdive CD’s once. I can go more in depth in music if you want me to

Q(15):

What do you mean exactly when you say " I started to believe that they knew more about the massacre than they were letting on." ?

I read about them listening to all those bands, except for Slowdive, interesting ! I thought they only liked industrial music.

Thanks for taking the time to answer x

A:

  When I get home I’ll make an in depth answer but let’s just say some very fishy shit was going  on with the TCM and it’s affiliates in the months leading up to the shooting.

Q(16):

Do you have any clue if they were into Aphex Twin?

A:

Funnily enough, i tried to turn Eric on to more electronic music by giving him selected ambient works and music has the right to children by boards of canada but he said it was too boring.

Q(17):

I can see how he wouldn't be the type to like these things. But I always thought he would be someone who would like "Come to Daddy".

Q(18):

When did you first find out it was those two doing the shooting and what was your initial reaction?

A:

Basically, i got called by one of my friends who told me to turn on the fucking news because "some shit just went down". I switched it on, and lo and behold, reporters everywhere, cops, and people running out of the school, and a reporter said there was a shooting at columbine. i initially believed that Eric could've been involved, but i seriously didn't expect to see Dylan's yearbook photo show up when they started to talk about suspects. As for my reaction, well, let's just say it wasn't pleasant. I woke my mom up after i screamed out "FUCK!" and dropped my glass of apple juice.

Q(19):

Thank you for the AMA. It is nice to hear your level headed analysis.

Have you seen the movie Elephant by Gus Van Sant? Do you think it's an accurate portrayal?

Also, why do you think the boys ended up in the library? Didn't they want to kill jocks?

A:

Elephant was good but you need to keep in mind that it strays heavily from the actual events leading up to shooting and the shooting itself.

Absolutely no idea. That question still bugs me to this day.

Q(20):

DELETED COMMENT

A:

Yes.

If I thought they were serious, at that time in my life the idea would have been slightly appealing but I probably wouldn’t have aided them.

Q(21):

  Obviously the Trench Coat Mafia wasn't the scary thing people said it was but how did you guys feel about it being portrayed as this marauding gang that was full of goth kids. How true/untrue was that and how did you and other members feel getting raked over the coals in the media shortly after the shooting?

What kind of music (specific bands if possible) did you like in High School? I always thought it was crazy that Brooks Brown was a Juggalo back then.

How are you holding up now? Obviously you have no real reason to feel remorse or guilt in any way but it feels like every year we have another shooting where the shooter idolized Eric & Dylan, is it weird that so many people idolize two of your old friends and they became folk anti-heroes in a way?

(If no other question you'd wanna answer please answer this one) If you could go back to a point in time before that day with Eric and/or Dylan, what would you say to them?

A:

It didn't really matter because as soon as the media said that Eric and Dylan were members of TCM the whole group just fell apart. Some people were angry, some people were sad, some people just stayed silent. I personally felt mad, not because they were slandering us, but because they basically put a target on our heads. A guy i knew got picked up by cops for wearing a trench coat. Jocks were talking about revenge, and nobody could wear black for two weeks after 4/20 for fear of being attacked.

NIN, Korn, Aphex twin, Tool, Deftones, KMFDM, Smashing Pumpkins, Slowdive, My Bloody Valentine, Alice in Chains, Boards of Canada, Radiohead, Marilyn Manson, Pigface, SPK, Throbbing Gristle. Lots of stuff.

As good as one can after all I've been through.

As Marilyn Manson said, I wouldn't of said anything. I'd of listened. Because maybe if we all listened things wouldn't of turned out the way they did.

Q(22):

How did you sleep the night after the shooting?

A:

I didn't sleep for two days after finding out it was Eric and Dylan. Eventually i stole some ambien from my parent's medicine cabinet, but i wouldn't say that i felt well rested after waking back up.

Q(22):

Very understandable. I wouldn't have been able to sleep either. Wish you best of luck.

Q(23):

Thank you for doing this. Could answer some questions people have:

Do you recall anything that could have given you a hint or anything that could have tipped someone off?

How are you doing now? Hope all is well.

A:

As I’ve said before, Eric wasn’t very fucking inconspicuous about wanting to do some shit. He told pretty much everyone who knew him that he was planning to do something to CHS, but as far as I know, everyone played it off because they thought he was joking and because it was a different time period where stuff like that wasn’t taken as seriously. In this day and time kids can make “don’t come to school tomorrow” jokes and get fucking arrested.

Q(23):

Thanks for responding.

Q(24):

Did being part of TCM have any sort of impact on your life as you grew up due to the affiliation? Also how’ve you been doing? I can’t imagine it was easy growing up knowing what people you knew did.

A:

Yes. If employers search up my name (not giving that shit out) they find a TCM group picture from the yearbook. I can't work serious jobs and several of my friends have no idea of my background or how i was friends with two of the most infamous human beings alive. It's a pretty heavy burden to bear, but i manage.

Q(24):

Yes. If employers search up my name (not giving that shit out) they find a TCM group picture from the yearbook. I can't work serious jobs and several of my friends have no idea of my background or how i was friends with two of the most infamous human beings alive. It's a pretty heavy burden to bear, but i manage

Q (15):

I guess you know that already but you have the legal rights to get search results linked to your name (that you think threaten your privacy) deleted from the Internet.

A:

Are you serious? I’ll definitely look into that if it’s true.

Q(15):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten

Removing the TCM photo and its caption will be tricky of course but you shouldn't let your full name appear anywhere linked to the massacre if it gets in the way of you getting a job.

A:

Thank you! I had no idea about this. I might have to head over to r/legaladvice soon.

Q(25):

  DELETED COMMENT

A:

Disappointment and sadness towards the shooter and the victims, anger towards the media and pharmaceutical companies.

Q(26):

how much different do you think your life would be if it never happened? how did the school/community cope afterwards? did you personally know any of the victims?

A:

 I might have a decent job, and I wouldn’t have as much weight on my shoulders.

We didn’t have school for weeks afterward, I just stopped going for the rest of the year, and according to friends when school went back in the only thing people did was just talk and vent to each other. I guess that’s how everyone recovers. Just talk and vent.

Some of my acquaintances were injured, and few people i knew in passing were killed.

Q(27):

How would you feel about some sort of columbine movie? Obviously it would be made with respect and include accurate info about the shooting, victims, and the perpetrators.

A:

It would be nice. Might draw more awareness to mental health and hopefully provide an unbiased picture of both Eric and Dylan’s behavior before and during the massacre.

Also, Trent Reznor should do the soundtrack but I doubt he would due to the shit he got from the media after the shooting.

Q(15):

Were you friends with Eric Veik ?

A:

Yes. Not much I can say except he was pretty smart and people started saying he helped plan it afterwards. I don’t believe it based on how much the shooting fucked him up.

Q(28)(referring to question above):

Or if not, what do you think about that guy?!

A:

I feel bad for him.

Q(29):

DELETED COMMENT

A:

Yes. It’s good, but she needs to understand that dylan wasn’t as innocent as she thinks.

Q(30):

I was wondering if you had any close friendships/relationships with any of the kids that were killed?

A:

No close relationships although some people I would consider acquaintances were hurt.

Q(31):

i’m curious about Eric and Dylan’s behavior around animals. Had you ever witnessed either of them interact with animals? Did you have a sense of the type of relationship, if any, they had with their family pets? Are you aware of either of them exhibiting any negative behaviors directed toward animals, including wildlife?

A:

I actually have a story for this one.

We had been detonating pipe bombs out in the mountains, and I came up with the idea to tape one of the bombs to a tree to test the damage. We did that, and when it detonated it blew a chunk out of the tree and knocked out some baby birds. We all believed that if we touched them, their mom would abandon them, so we decide just to put them out of their misery. I stomped some, Eric stomped some, and Dylan stomped some.

Eric stomped them quickly and seemed very nonchalant about it. Dylan, however, said that he was just putting them out of their misery, and said he felt better for some reason after stomping them.

I believe that was the defining moment in my friendship with them, and foreshadowed their actions at columbine. Eric was silent, and was almost machinelike in the way he stomped them. Dylan actually vocalized to the birds by saying “this is only going to hurt for a little bit” before stomping them. It chills me to my very core that I saw a part of the people they would later become out there in the mountains.

Q(32):

Were Eric and Dylan good bowlers?

A:

Pretty standard as far as my knowledge of bowling goes.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

LINK TO THE AMA: https://www.reddit.com/r/casualiama/comments/fom8or/i_am_a_former_member_of_the_trench_coat_mafia_ask/

(THIS IS NOT EVERYTHING ON THE AMA, BESIDES COMMENTS LIKE  “answered this already” AND OR UNIMPORTANT UNANSWERED QUESTIONS)

Be respectful