Back on my Chuck v Krok brother bullshit. Back on a lot of my bullshit actually.
Ava points out that you were truly omnipotent, omniscient, all-powerful, WHATEVER, you wouldnāt have to build anything, youād just reach for it. Krok has to build something to return to the early moments of the universe to show Ava. You know who didnāt? Chuck. When Chuck was still masquerading as the Big Malevolent Thing, before he figured out how to speak to everyone, he moves Ava through time and space to observe the beginning of The Diner Famās stories. Caspar, Leif, Gloria, and even her own final moments before being whisked away on a time traveling dimension spanning diner. Chuck places her at a point in time and space that allows her to talk to Effie and Zebulonās granddaughter. The real physical earth Effie and Zebulonās granddaughter. Effie and Zebulon, the radio pastors, who were made anew as waves by Chuck.
Krok canāt do that. He has to make things to help him do that. So either heās a complete liar, which I doubt, or heās a half-liar out of pride/fear. I think⦠Krok lost something when he came into being. Because he existed before the universe, he can break its laws, but that also means he has very little ownership over what he can make it do for him. He tried to make a star, but he made a rock. The universe is not his sandbox. The sandbox came after him, and is someone elseās. And I think that someone else is Chuck, his little brother.
Iāve already talked about how the diner fits into this before as a possible creation of Chuckās if weāre treating Chuck like God and Effie and Zebulon like a pseudo Adam and Eve (separate beings with their own identity that sprung forth from the same⦠matter for lack of a better word, even though Effie and Zeb are waves. You get me). Iām more interested in Krokās creation: Clementine.
Pulling that god metaphor down to this paragraph with me, but like, if God (Chuck) made man in his image, and that gave us Effie and Zeb ā two people who can manipulate the world around them, but with the same limited and almost childlike (in innocence) knowledge of universal laws as Chuck. Effie and Zebulon never ājust say thatā when they perform their miracles ā they donāt talk about wrapping a ship in oxygen, or triggering safety locks, they just do it ā because itās intrinsic. The same way when you know a language and speak it long enough, it gets hard to define certain words because you just know. Itās intrinsic. The same way Chuck doesnāt have words and understanding of the universe despite observing it and existing at all moments in all spaces throughout time. So what does that say about Clementine and Krok? Like, really.
If Krok yearns for pure existence, he could just have that. Ava finally points that out, out loud. If he was truly all powerful, he could just do it. He could return everything to nothing. Except he canāt. He has to build something to even observe the beginning. He can go everywhere, do anything, except return home to fix it all. And gee, doesnāt that sound like fucking Clementine? A walking wound, personified damage to the fabric of time and space. Time and space that Chuck wants fixed because, hello, this is his house. His body. His everything. You fuck with Chuckās sandbox and you fuck with him. It IS him. Heās universally extent. All time. All space. Clementine fucked with that, broke that, trying to get back home and creating a paradox while doing it because sheās Krokās creation, the guy from before time and space. The guy who canāt seem to manipulate the universe correctly because he came before it and lacks power in the way he seems to wish he had it.
Krok mentions underestimating his little brother, which suggests a blind spot. And hereās what Iām curious about. Thereās a bi-directionality here. Libuza couldnāt anticipate Krok because she could only ever observe the few fractions of fractions of seconds at the very very beginning of the universe. Krok existed before, therefore the numbers canāt account for him. But, as weāve already established, Krok canāt seem to manipulate the universe in a truly omnipotent way. Why is up for debate, but I am curious about how his fear is involved. So this is my question⦠was Krok stripped of his power or did he never have it because he was not created when the universe was created, he simply came into observable being when it was created? Which leads to the question Ava is fixated on. Why is there something instead of nothing? It suggests a third party. Someone other than Krok (the before) and Chuck (the after), someone or something THEN. That very moment that everything changed. Because like, as much as itās neat to wrap all these disparate pieces of information up together with a bow the fact still remains that Krok is afraid of something. Something that needs to be flung across time and space. Something that canāt be killed ā but with the underlying suggestion that this thing canāt easily cross time and space either. Because if it could, the guns still wouldnāt matter. It could just zap itself right back. So thereās this secret third thing thatās equally as powerful as Krok and Chuck, but limited in some way.
Also, as an aside, also kind of stuck on Ava helping Clementine recreate a universe from scratch when shit got super ultra mega broken. It means something that Ava is the one that FOUND the diner, the shape of it made by the math surrounding it. It means something that Ava is the one Chuck speaks to. It means something that he takes her back to her final speech as a professor being shoved into emeritus status where she says, āAs we struggle to understand the universe, we may need to consider the idea that the universe is struggling to understand us, that our curiosity about the cosmos may be reciprocated.ā (Which Chuck all but confirms. He sees a lonely Caspar and makes Effie and Zebulon for him. He agrees that he needs them just as much as they need him. A hunter and a dog, each better at something than the other).
Basically I just need to know if Ava is the mother of the universe lmao. Like, it is very important to me that observation is central to the discussion. Krok emphasizes there was nothing to observe because the universe came into being because nothing was. There was no time, no space, no ideal of observation. But the moment the universe is created, when matter overpowers antimatter, in a way, observation is integral to its existence because thatās a concept that sprung into being alongside it. And so I come back to Ava, fixing the paradoxical woman and the universe sheās broken by making her start over. Were Avaās eyes open when she was doing her guided meditation? Because Clementineās were closed and she was picturing it all in her mind to fix it, but Ava was still outside of that, existing in a space where there was nothing. Not even space until she taught Clementine how to make it. No time until Clementine began to move the space.
Is there a reality where Ava and Clementine are Krok and the secret third thing lmao? They were in another universe together when Caspar finds them. Ava would technically have existed before the universe and watched it unfold around her as Clementine remade it. But the time and space that exists infinitely is Chuck. So who the fuck is the Clementine in this equation and is THAT who Krok is afraid of? The one that made the thing that came into observable existence. Whoās THAT.