Belle's Domain

Yeeaaahhh... for me it was the 2018 changes that turned it into a show that's just - not the same show. I think it's that it's no longer telling the same story - Trevor Nunn's allegory for systemic racism just isn't there anymore.

Controversial opinion but - Andrew Lloyd Webber is one of the best composers in the world. Arlene Phillips is an amazing choreographer. I wouldn't ask either of them to engineer the sound design, because it's not what they're experts in. So why are they directing the show? And not even touching on "Creative Dramaturg"! How much did Luke Sheppard get to decide on the Wembley show with the influence of the "Creative Dramaturg"? Because it didn't feel like Wembley had a strong story to tell, and more than the 2018 show had. So many questions, so many plot holes. So many undefined characters...

What's so frustrating was Andrew Lloyd Webber talking about "stripping the show back to its 1984 roots" - YES that's what you need to do! But did you do it? NO! I'm pretty sure that the original score, libretto, notes, all the references, were lost in the storage fire in the mid-1990s, and the only material they had to work with for the update was the 1984 cast recording, the 1993 cast recording, and the 2012 touring script! Because the fan community has bootlegs, and we KNOW that, for example, Rolling Stock was NEVER that slow onstage, it just weirdly ended up slow on the recording. the 1984 recording is what, 3/4 of the show? and all the recit, the story telling, is cut.

The 1984 show wouldn't really work now, it needed some tweaks. the 2012 show DESPERATELY needed work, it was not a good version! (apart from orchestrations, it did sound good!) But where we are now is so far from the original it's hard to recognise, because it's just not telling a big story the way Trevor Nunn did.

Going through this made my day!

That's so cool that it's archived images! My site was so visual, archives that don't include pictures are pretty weak.

There's a mix in there, of fan art and programme art... am I missing it, or are these images not on the wiki??

Also, I edited them for black backgrounds. Should I use the white background originals on the wiki? Or black that works with the design better?

Because John Napier's English! The Bochum production started off with costumes made in New York, exact replicas of the Broadway costumes made by the same people, and they trained the German wardrobe team to replicate them. Unless very specifically directed otherwise, the German costumes remained exact carbon copies of those original Tony award-winning costumes! (hmm, wonder why they didn't make that a publicity point? It's a big award!)

John Napier's designs are mixed media collages, photographs photocopied and drawn and painted over. They're referencing toy trains, mostly, more than real engines, from the elements people have identified.

I got to see his retirement exhibition 10 years ago, and getting up close and personal with these designs was AMAZING.

My photography sucks, but it wasn't exactly great conditions!

There was also this interesting sculpture - made using real costume pieces if I remember correctly!

Are these the pics you mean? This is a case of substitution - for whatever reason, Maria Jane Hyde wasn't available for the rehearsal at which these photos were taken, and someone else had to cover for her - now, I am not 100% sure I'm remembering correctly, but I believe this is Voyd as Pearl! She was Arlene's assistant setting up the Bochum production. I think she's actually wearing a Joule wig - but with Voyd, it might have been her real hair! Either way, it wasn't intentionally a look for Pearl, just they needed someone to blend in in group shots like these.

That's a good question... I'm really bad at trivia and "common knowledge" because surely everyone understands how hydrogen is formed in stars, but name a footballer, who that?!

Famous cast members is gonna be fairly deep down - there's a lot of UK TV actors but not many internationally famous (unlike, say, Richard Armitage was in Cats)... the Las Vegas production was the first legit residential Musical Theatre show in the city, that's pretty cool and foundational for the direction the city went in.

"Did you know every character is on skates?" has gotta be at the top...

No, me neither... maybe the argument is making Caboose money focused means that having an actual Money Truck as well would be confusing? But I don't think it would confuse people except wondering why Caboose wants cash?!

I know the new London version of the rap was added in 2003 but I don’t think it was that version because they kept saying “hey du” which parent the new stex lyrics, the lighting was also duller compared to the 2003 rap, like literally just the base yellow.

I can’t find the playlist anywhere so maybe I’m just imagining this lol

I wont deny that their relationship is unhealthy and toxic, but i want to know your stance on it as well, if youre alright with that? /nf

Yeah, the Greaseball/Dinah relationship is actually the most dated and problematic element of the original show imo. Domestic Violence was just accepted in the past, an unfortunate unavoidable character flaw. So when it was written, it was a little old fashioned but not questionable - part of showing that Greaseball is an asshole. But fortunately this is one way our culture is improving! It's no longer acceptable, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen anymore.

The trouble is, Domestic Violence is a cycle... a spiral. When the victim breaks away, the abuser will love-bomb them, apologise, grovel, beg for forgiveness, swear they've changed, they're different... and then... old habits die hard. The abusive behaviours come back worse than ever once their victim has forgiven them and taken them back. Maybe the abuser can learn to change their behaviour with a lot of work, but the vast majority of the time, it's worse than before. When Dinah accepts Greaseball back, those who know how it goes see that she's only going to be abused more. The show doesn't give us nearly enough depth to write Greaseball actually changing and learning how to have a healthy respectful relationship, and 99.98% of lived experience says it's gonna go badly.

I wish they would be brave enough to change the ending of Dinah's story - she stays strong, and doesn't go back to him. It would be such a good example to teach people that you're strong enough to stand alone! Don't change anything up until the very end, instead of the "Greaseball you're hurt?!", restore the Buffy and Ashley "I love it when romance occurs on the railroad..." with lyric updates. Just have Dinah with the other coaches, looking on, but not interacting with Greaseball. She's made up her mind, he's not her problem anymore!

It's sometimes necessary to SHOW the bad shit from the bad guys. Character flaws are needed to tell the story, why is Greaseball so intimidating? because he's a bully. But that doesn't stop him being a super charismatic character! You can enjoy a character who is still a bastard, liking the character is not approving all their behaviour. Telling a good story needs to show us the bad stuff.

i was wondering if u have any pictures of bobby collins as any of the characters, mayhaps??

honestly everything I have and more is on his page on the wiki - https://starlightexpressmusical.fandom.com/wiki/Bobby_Collins

I know, the ads are awful! I was following the drama of the Minecraft wiki moving off Fandom - obviously several orders of magnitude bigger than our theatre world - and they had significant issues, primarily that due to the open license of fandom.com, they can keep everything that's already there, you can't get them to CLOSE the wiki just because the original editors want it closed. The community just has to *KNOW* the other address is the better one!

And that runs into one of the biggest advantages of using fandom.com wikis - the SEO is fantastic. Any search will take you to the wiki in the top results, it's super easy to find. Even if we move the wikis, those links to the old site will remain, and the new one will be far harder to find. Not such a problem for existing fans who love the shows enough to bookmark the wiki, but the majority of the visits are apparently new visitors. IDK how fandom tracks that, if it's logins or cookies, but both wikis are about 90% new hits.

The other advantage of the fandom.com hosting is the ease of use... comparatively, at least, for someone as mid-tier technical as me! It's got plenty of problems but they do seem to genuinely be fixing bugs.

1: do you know if there is any way of obtaining the sheet music for a whole lot of locomotion/nie genug and I do/für immer? I know that there is a music booklet that has I do in it it was released from last year, but I haven't been able to find archive of it, and I know that there has been rehearsal booklets that have been found online I was able to find one from bochum 1992 where it still had dein freund and one from london 1997, that had the new lyrics and plotline that cut C.B, but I'm looking for a more legal way of obtaining it. A friend and I want to rewrite of starlight 2013 to make it less sexist as we both really like that version of the show and miss it.

2: so the photo below it's currently a favorite of my friend, mainly because of how dynamic it looks, and I and I was wondering what cast this is from specifically who's playing Rusty and who's playing caboose

That photo is such a spoiler! I love it! It's Kapa Kitchen and Bernie Blanks, from Bochum 1989. They must have staged it to some degree for 1989 colour photography, but it does feel so dynamic, action packed!

I am based in London, and no, I've not seen the Broadway revival... a couple of friends who are big fans of Cats LOVED it though!

So I'm just wondering, would I be better sitting with my family the second to fourth row back of the parkett spinny seats? Or am I better moving us to the part of track side closest to where Hash/Manga crashes?? This is on the assumption you've seen the German production but I'm just genuinely curious, I don't really have long to decide before both tickets are gone! And I'm also not allowed to go back for the evening show, or at least I haven't asked yet 🙈😅 any advice as to if I should go with the trackside manga crash area or a row or two back but still in the parkett I'd really appreciate it!

honestly there's not a bad seat in the theatre! Only some are quite over-priced :P Trackside is always good! This is quite an old seating plan from when they added the spinny chairs, I don't know if the price bands are still the same, but like - I wouldn't want to pay top price for halfway back in mittel-tribune, but I've sat there for the tech show at the open day and it's a great view! My fave value for money is the back row of the Parkett, because it's on a slope you're almost at track level and loads of action is *RIGHT THERE* behind you The spinny seats are honestly kinda distracting, I'm not a huge fan, though you do have tons of legroom!

I don't think you'd have a bad time with the original seats tbh, anything trackside is good, and the Parkett is well below stage level. Plus experiencing it with your family is important (unless you have someone who can. not. stop. talking...) You're not far back, and you don't have any restricted view the way you do from the closest to the stage.

Here's that central trackside view, pre-show, it's pretty awesome! Everything laid out in front of you. Only possible downside is for the finale when all the Parkett audience stands up, you're gonna have to stand up too!

This is near Hash Crash - amazing, but you do lose a little bit of upstage right, where you can see more clearly into the wings opposite, you lose as much on this side.

I don't think I've got any photos I've taken from inside Parkett, but your head is at knee-level at best so you're looking up at everyone - amazing to see close-up, but you can't keep track of what everyone's doing all around you.