What are your thoughts on mtefil wrath arc this far? Personally, I'm completely confused that's the character we've been building up for since vol 1? Poor Lisa.
Sad. Disappointed. Angry. Annoyed. Disillusioned. A swarm of negative emotions swirling inside me lol. I used to look forward to reading Ekuoto every other Tuesday, but it's gotten to the point where I dread opening the chapters.
Having the penultimate (lesbian) villain be a rape and femicide victim to make her sympathetic, and then have her be a radfem and a terf while having had very minimal in-depth discussions of feminism and zero trans characters up to this point is crazy. To have her constantly spout truths about gender and class inequality, while making her be the conductor and cause of mass slaughter and rape to invalidate everything she says, is crazy. To have one of the demon lords who has misogyny as a key part of his character (though they all are in varying ways) be a major player in taking her down is crazy!
I hadn't thought about it until now, but to have THIS mini arc of ALL arcs be the arc with the LEAST female character involvement! Is! Crazy!!! Barbara and Leah are background cutouts rn. Charlotte, Manon, Becu? Barely a whisper of them. Even Asmodeus and Leviathan aren't really around in a relevant way.
It's so so difficult and painful to believe this is what Arima had planned all these years. Has been setting up all these years. Did something happen between now and then?? Because it's truly breaking my brainnnn. I'm so confused too anon. So so confused...
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Collection of the extra files from vol.1 to vol.15. Please tell me if there are any dead images so I can fix them. I'd also appreciate it if the pics weren't spread around online too much. Thanks! //
I don't if it's just me but I found the "conclusion" of Lisa/Imuri's relationship to be disturbing and oddly mean-spirited. I guess it depends on whether on not we'll see Lisa again and if that last page is meant to be seen as foreboding but idk Lisa's both lives end with her being infinitely forgiving/encouraging towards the person that got her killed (the second time on purpose), a person that just barely cares about her and seemingly never thought of her again after she burned at the stake. Maybe it has to do with the fact that Imuri's thoughts on Lisa are barely touched on and so surface level but it just feels disturbing to me, like Lisa's only purpose in life is to be a stepping stone. I don't know maybe that uncomfortable feeling could be mitigated if Lisa is somehow allowed to participate in the continuing chapters, but I have a feeling she will be quickly tossed away and forgotten about until her plan against Satan takes place and the quickly forgotten about, again.
It's definitely not just you. If this Lisa's conclusion is meant to be taken as beautiful and final it says something really unsettling about the work's view on women. It's not that there aren't problems here and there, mainly with how Imuri's character is handled, but it's salvageable depending on this specific arc. And it just goes destroying every other female character, and then has Imuri grow a little bit as a compensation. Lisa died as a stepping stone in every meaning of the word. The negotiation with her paints the pope as a virtuous martyr. Her revolution unites the Vergilius witch faction and the church against Satan. The battle with her elevates Marco Belphegor and Mikhail, two misogynists and an ignorant priest, completing the first two's character journey and fleshing out the latter's philosophy. Her uterus and plan for Satan are Chekhov's guns. Her status is a literal stepping stone for Satan's final boss. And in her dying moment, she doesn't even get to think about her revolution or the result of her hundreds of years of effort. We're supposed to accept that Lisa, who criticizes Joshua for choosing Imuri over the world and ultimately chooses to kill Imuri to take out Belphegor, accepts her end with the only accomplishment for women being Imuri accepting herself so she doesn't ruin her newest boyfriend. Imuri during the entire fight is rendered to the background, one panel to seem worry for Lisa, and her first thought in this chapter that compels her to act is still about Joshua. No self reflection on her treatment of Lisa in the past after literally walking through it, most of the reactions and effects of seeing Lisa's backstory are again from Joshua. Imuri comes out still insensitive to Lisa's suffering and barely understands or cares about Lisa at all, if she does then it's barely shown. Lisa is never her priority, she even lamented about it twice, and she remains never a priority till the end.
Imuri's sacrifice in "The Finale", JoshImuri's happy ending in "All's well that ends well" and Joshua's death in "The End" can be fake-outs but somehow "The Final Battle" where the main heroes consist of female members as supporters and the male members as leaders who take the main stage gathered with a redeemed villain to defeat the wicked witch with the help of the heroine's charm in the last moment and the hero dealing the final blow with a sword isn't, a fake-out? This is pure shounen slop I know this is a shounen but spending your entire manga subverting common tropes just to have your feminist strawman defeated in the most shounen battle to ever battle is insane. Please tell me this is all Satan's script because anything this guy explicitly meddles with feels superficial and fake like Joshua and Imuri's relationship.
Arima wanted to write yuri soo badšššš
Lisa's arc is honestly the most dissapointing mtefil arc there HAS EVER BEEN. Making the female fillain who's arc is rooted in her experience with men just END at the hands of men is soo stupid im gonna cryy brooššš
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The difference in his speech bubbles. Joshua is bold when condemning Lisa as "going too far" (which she does) but seems unsure when coming up with any other rebuttal. He says the same thing as the Pope in a worse way and acts surprised when Lisa is understandably not convinced. Like he has no right to talk about how things are improving when he even admitted to being ignorant himself.
Why does Satan have her uterus. Ominous. My scariest thought is he has it to birth himself into the world but that may be a stretch. Why does he have that. What do u need that for Satan.
I actually quite like her critique of Priest here. While I wanted Priest to live his own life, it is true that he tried to destroy the world, then has so far not put much thought into what he should or can do to improve the world. Heās wanted to prevent Baba Yaga from being brought back, but thereās been limited action outside of that. And Lisaās description of the improvements of the world is correct. Historically speaking, I canāt think of a single rights movement that improved from a top down way. Certainly itās true of feminist movements. I think people sometimes forget how recent certain things like womenās suffrage are for example. For example, Switzerland only had universal female suffrage on a federal level starting in 1971, and it wasnāt until 1990 that women in all cantons had the right to vote on the canton level. If you look in Europe broadly, people often cite Mary Wollenstonecraftās A Vindication of the Rights of Woman as one of the first texts that can be considered feminist (although the term is anachronistic). Sometimes 19th century womenās suffrage movements are also considered the first feminist actions. But if you look back, youāll also see plenty of textās considered proto-feminist, such as Arcangela Tarabottiās Paternal Tyranny and Christine de Pizanās The Book of the City of the Ladies which also express anti patriarchal sentiment. Thatās centuries after centuries of writing and movement discussing frustration with gender oppression. And thatās solely looking at the European context. I also find Lisaās attitude regarding her own awareness of the harm sheās caused but a willingness to bear responsibility for it interesting and it reminds me of something but I canāt remember rip.
Iām still fascinated by the fact that they donāt seem to know each other but thereās all these bizarre connection moments. Maybe Mikhail knows another soul part of Baba Yaga? Maybe itās just that Mikhail whoās implied to have a Slavic background knows Baba Yaga from folktales?
Also another connection of Mikhail to witchcraft since heās commanding Charās familiar here.
Another ominous Mikhail moment in which Mikhail says something loaded, in this case with the face completely obscured. Will we finally get Mikhail backstory?
This I find interesting in that it harkens back to the beginning of the arc and the idea of having passion for some cause. Both Imuri and Josh are currently in a state of disconnect. It seems weāre heading towards an Imuri choice being made. Also yayyy confirmation that the one ex boyfriend with the sword really was a separate guy and it wasnāt just that his design and backstory got retconned or something. Interestingly, the Japanese terms that Imuri uses are ę ¼å„½ćććŖ for Lisa and åÆęććŖ for Mikhail. Obviously åÆęć is the term Mikhail frequently uses, but I just think itās interesting to note that it has a more feminine connotation, whereas the term Imuri uses for Lisa has a more masculine connotation. Theyāre not strictly gendered terms but they do have gendered connotations.
The Japanese title is å«ć³, which is translated as Cry Out but from what I can see seems to be the Japanese translation of The Scream by Edvard Munch. Iām guessing this is because of the Mandrake thing.
Anyway I suspect we are getting an Imuri focus -> her relationship with Satan focus -> Satan focus sort of deal with this.
Near the transition from the Pride to the Wrath Arc, I tried to type up a post clarifying MTEFIL's weird position in religion-based fantasy. Mainly it doesn't just take aesthetics from Christian mythology but genuinely tries to engage with Christian values without just replicating its rhetoric.
Most Christian art falls into two camps. The first is propaganda, often with a goal of evangelism which not only carries certain values but affects its thematic depth. It is hard to really break new ground when your focus is on repeating an already established message. The second camp more takes the aesthetics of Christian mythology to have its own fun and is pretty common in anime/manga. I enjoy this type plenty but most gun-toting nun series don't evoke the same moral worldbuilding that makes MTEFIL stand out.
In MTEFIL evil is ever present and easy to define, to viscerally understand and interact with. Meanwhile connection to that which is good and divine is not only vague and distant, but is often facilitated through institutions that everyone knows are corrupt and just as bad as what it claims to fight. It's a moral quandary I find more interesting and more relevant to how people in real life engage in religion and other organized structures. In a world where Sin is real and undeniable but God remains unknownable and connected to so much injustice, what do you do? Losing your religion might help heal the trauma, but it doesn't stop demons from eating you.
It's also why I never expected an "attack and dethrone God" style plotline. Even though the demon lords are presented as rebels of Heaven, the offer of an eternal paradise never really meant much to MTEFIL's themes. The plot goes to hell and back yet remains unconcerned about eternal damnation. Still I was excited to see how it would try to thread the needle and solve its quandary.
But the issue I saw in the horizon and the Wrath Arc has laid bare is that the solution liberal Christian denominations use to ease their dissonance weren't really available to a narrative like MTEFIL. Liberal Christian denominations can reinterpret their texts, declare certain traditions irrelevant to their current lives, or read certain biblical myths as metaphorical. But when you accept that Adam and Eve are real people in order to make your super-powered priests work, well that gives you a lot less wiggle room to ignore what it means to be made from another's spare rib.
I don't even really think a liberal Christian pov would be a satisfying or interesting direction for MTEFIL to go, but what we currently have isn't either. Just like the demon lords, Lisa is a clearly defined character whose Wrath is given more thought and depth beyond just "angry bad." But unlike the demon lords, she's able to nuke the world and still come out looking more morally principled than the others because she at least believes in something. Which ironically, our protagonists haven't really demonstrated.
And I won't act like MTEFIL hasn't punched its way through handling its thematic questions. It's not like Beelzebub was defeated by demonstrating the values of restraint and generosity. But there's a fascinating dissonance to the antagonist's position being the most developed and nuanced, citing real life history, while our heroes keep looking for a bigger power upgrade that will bring her down.
This far in I don't have any hopes of it subverting its centrist positioning. But even if the next chapter suddenly did an entire 180 and everyone agreed with Lisa, it doesn't change the fact it's spent a lot of pages in boring stagnation. We're over 100 chapters into this narrative but it doesn't feel like it is getting any closer to really digging into the juiciest bits of its premise. Even if the politics were less eye-rolling that would be disappointing.
Thereās something vaguely interesting in file #95 from the volume 15 that just released but Iām reading it through google translate so like Iām not really fully understanding it. It has something to do with Satanās possession of Dante not being entirely stable and it has something to do with Virgilius? There seems to be the implication it has something to do with why Verge was kept around in the first place by Baba Yaga but idk. There were only three case files this volume, one is from Bel and itās about him intervening (but he mentions something about someone he hates informing him about the situation? I wonder who that is?) (itās possible the implication is Verge since file 95 implies Verge was ferreting out information for a period of time but the witches didnāt know to who, and heās said something about a plan in recent chapters), the other is another Henry (Josh coworker) and Josh other coworker about the apocalypse seeming scary.
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The two women who should have the most to say to Lisa are reduced to supporting roles for a man to speak directly that they are not interested in addressing her points. In the ideal world this ought to be intentional but with the current level of writing I'm not even sure anymore.
New chapter Lisa is being too sympathetic again so they'll have her kill a character (Marco) to emphasize that she's crazy andĀ she needs to goĀ down. And since every character from the conservative faction of the church is getting an entire chapter dedicated to their development, at this rate Nicholas is going to show up to fight Satan and have his redemption by saving Joshua or something.
I donāt know what I was expecting from this chapter, but I wasnāt expecting Marco backstory LOLL. Mother Rosa mention⦠please come backā¦. We also now have a better approximation of Marcoās age, since heās clearly still a child but older than 12 when Josh was 12.
Lisa seems to be actively in the process of dying for more power. āWe have no interest in arguing with youā and the focus on methods I find interesting. In previous arcs and and specifically recently with Charlotte, the idea of violence as a tool to get to the negotiating table has been brought up. However, here we can see that even now there is no negotiating going on. Interestingly, there is also no focus on what methods they do think she should use. Thereās a complete disinterest in engaging with her on any level. They neither agree nor disagree with her ideas, and while they disagree with the extent of her violence, thereās no expression of what outlet they do think should occur for her expression of ideas. Barbara and Leah both have been shown to understand gender based oppression, and oppose it, but theyāve also been uninvolved in enacting any sort of systemic change. If violence is a no go, or at least this extent of violence, what is the appropriate level of violence or alternative methods that they hold should be used? Again, none of the cast outside of Lisa has expressed what they specifically think an ideal world should look like, and what the appropriate methods for accomplishing that are. Whether thatās a weakness of the story or a purposeful critique, Iām not sure yet.
I had thought that there had been a direct reference to the Hammer of Witches, but hadnāt screenshotted it and forgot it was Marco! Itās kind of incredibly fitting. The Hammer of Witches, or Malleus Maleficarum is one of the most influential texts on witchcraft in Europe. It was written by Heinrich Kramer, a Dominican Priest, who was misogynistic to a degree that was notable even in the 15th century when he was alive. Like, he was so misogynistic that other theologians were condemning him in his time, including a bishop. One of the Popes did like his work though. He deeply disliked women, and the Malleus Maleficarum is one of the works most influential to tying ideas of witchcraft to women, and specifically womenās sexuality. Ideas of women have shifted over time, and in this specific time period misogynistic constructions of women held them to be excessively sexual and insatiable, and also more easily susceptible to sin as they were held to be less capable of reasoning then men. Heinrich Kramer did not disagree, and the Malleus Maleficarum is a deeply misogynistic text that is obsessive about womenās sexuality in much of the same manner that Marco talks about Imuri. That itās the weapon he uses against Lisa is immensely charged, whether on purpose or otherwise.
The Japanese word he uses for aspiration also translates to longing, but it is a different word than the word used for longing in the chapter title. Idk enough about Japanese to make any commentary about that, but if anyone who does has any thoughts Iād be interested in hearing them.
Chapter ends with Lisa offering up her uterus, her reproductive organ, which also feels incredibly charged on a gender level. Sheās been tied to ideas of pregnancy (c section headless woman, the story of the curse of Eve, swallowing the fetuses, her status as a lesbian in a time period and society that valued her primarily in her availability to men including in the range of reproductive labor). Really wondering where thatās going to go.
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