Day Dreamer

short answer: not necessarily

long answer: the meereen portion of the story has to wrap up fairly quickly in twow, which is a lot to handle considering daenerys has to treat with the dothraki khals, return to meereen, wrangle the dragons, deal with the political situation there alongside her allies & enemies, likely come into contact with victarion to some degree, meet tyrion (yes i believe tyrion and dany will meet here for reasons to follow), and decide to leave for westeros with arrangements for whoever comprises her host.

for all this to occur i have a few theories of what might shape the first half of daenerys and tyrion's twow arcs:

the dragons are now large enough that daenerys will believe them relatively ready to make the journey

victarion's arrival breaks the blockade by sea, putting daenerys in a better bargaining position

victarion's arrival with the dragonbinder horn results in the loss of a dragon or some other dragon-related difficulty (no i don't think victarion will abduct daenerys herself, rather the red priest moqorro is simply using victarion to lure dany to westeros)

daenerys' bargaining position in meereen begins with an exile/seizure of property/imprisonment of a large swath of the ghiscari meereenese nobility. twow is meant to be "darker" for every character, thus i no longer see daenerys attempting the sort of assimilation she did throughout adwd. however theorizing that she will bring violence to meereen only to leave is equally unconvincing. what i predict will happen is that a mutual de-throning will come to pass, where both daenerys and the meereenese ruling class will be exiled from the city-state with a separate council (not a mere 'flip' as seen in astapor) set to rule. if barristan survives then somehow i think he won't be returning to westeros - a military force will remain in meereen with him or his trainees in the mix. daario however will d!e

but leaving meereen ≠ going to westeros. tyrion will be the one to convince her to return to westeros without delay, just as he pushed young griff to do the same. perhaps the motivations will be different but the same result - whether this is being a bad influence depends on the reasoning but ultimately their return needs to happen

tyrion i see as coming into play during the negotiations above, maybe as a neutral observer on behalf of another party's interests. during this time daenerys will not immediately accept tyrion's service nor will he immediately feel any sort of loyalty or admiration towards her. if i had to guess i'd think their relationship will slowly build on a few components:

their shared proficiency for politicking and (decision to slowly abandon) the use of self-deprecation as a tool during negotiations. a recognition through the other

dany's willingness to take tyrion's advice - despite the lack of trust and barristan speaking against him - when his advice is sound

daenerys' relationship with her freedpeople, particularly young women as tradespeople, sex workers, hostages etc who will all bring to mind women in tyrion's past (tysha, shae, sansa)

the shape of his forthcoming interactions with the dragons

perhaps a shared past of abuse by family members they were once willing to forgive and serve yet no longer

secrets don't stay secrets forever: i do believe it will be revealed that daenerys called off the lions in the pit, although not until a later point

whether he will be a quote unquote bad influence i think has more to do with tyrion's current mental state. i honestly do not believe he meant to sabotage young griff by sending him to westeros so early, it's just that at the time he was motivated by cersei and jaime's betrayals and didn't think it would actually come to pass. tyrion's advice is never truly bad, however his evolving feelings towards westeros/house lannister/the future as a whole mean that it's clouded by human elements. tyrion's arc in which he's faced rampant ableism, humiliation, and betrayal by those he loved only to meet daenerys who deeply values the marginalized, and reunite with jon snow who befriended him so long ago, cannot simply disregard all of the pain and failure he's faced. there should be a gut cautiousness in tyrion, a kneejerk reaction not to give his heart/loyalty away too easily, an instinct to protect himself.

all of that and a desire for love and respect anyway. his dream of simple happiness that he can never quite stamp out even when it makes him feel stupid, the continued will to live & be appreciated. speaking from a reader's perspective, i want tyrion to be rewarded for harboring those hopes.

for daenerys month day 16: familial relationships

"Who is it that I owe my life to?"

"You owe me nothing, Your Grace."

-ACOK, Daenerys V

COMFORT IN SHARED LANGUAGE

"We were, Your Grace," old Whitebeard replied. "The Magister begs your kind indulgence for sending us in his stead, but he cannot sit a horse as he did in his youth, and sea travel upsets his digestion." Earlier he had spoken in the Valyrian of the Free Cities, but now he changed to the Common Tongue. "I regret if we caused you alarm. If truth be told, we were not certain, we expected someone more . . . more . . ."

"Regal?" Dany laughed. She had no dragon with her, and her raiment was hardly queenly.

-ACOK, Daenerys V

"Sheep are obedient," said Arstan when the words had been translated. He had some Valyrian as well, though not so much as Dany, but like her he was feigning ignorance.

-ASOS, Daenerys II

BEDTIME STORIES

The hours crept by on turtle feet. Even after Jhiqui rubbed the knots from her shoulders, Dany was too restless for sleep. Missandei offered to sing her a lullaby of the Peaceful People, but Dany shook her head. "Bring me Arstan," she said.

When the old man came, she was curled up inside her hrakkar pelt, whose musty smell still reminded her of Drogo. "I cannot sleep when men are dying for me, Whitebeard," she said. "Tell me more of my brother Rhaegar, if you would. I liked the tale you told me on the ship, of how he decided that he must be a warrior."

-ASOS, Daenerys IV

KEEPER OF THE FAMILY LEGACY

She turned to Ser Barristan. "You protected my father for many years, fought beside my brother on the Trident, but you abandoned Viserys in his exile and bent your knee to the Usurper instead. Why? And tell it true."

"Some truths are hard to hear. [...] forgive me, my queen, but you asked for truth . . . even as a child, your brother Viserys oft seemed to be his father's son, in ways that Rhaegar never did."

-

Jaehaerys. This old man knew my grandfather. The thought gave her pause. Most of what she knew of Westeros had come from her brother, and the rest from Ser Jorah. Ser Barristan would have forgotten more than the two of them had ever known. This man can tell me what I came from.

-

The old man hesitated. "A knight of the Kingsguard is in the king's presence day and night. For that reason, our vows require us to protect his secrets as we would his life. But your father's secrets by rights belong to you now, along with his throne, and . . . I thought perhaps you might have questions for me."

-ASOS, Daenerys VI

"If I send the Brazen Beasts into the pyramids, it will mean open war inside the city. I have to trust in Hizdahr. I have to hope for peace." Dany held the parchment above a candle and watched the names go up in flame, while Skahaz glowered at her.

Afterward, Ser Barristan told her that her brother Rhaegar would have been proud of her.

-ADWD, Daenerys V

Of Daenerys Targaryen, no trace had been found. Some swore they saw her fall. Others insisted that the dragon had carried her off to devour her. They are wrong.

Ser Barristan knew no more of dragons than the tales every child hears, but he knew Targaryens. Daenerys had been riding that dragon, as Aegon had once ridden Balerion of old.

"She might be flying home," he told himself, aloud.

-

Barristan Selmy had known many kings. He had been born during the troubled reign of Aegon the Unlikely, beloved by the common folk, had received his knighthood at his hands. Aegon's son Jaehaerys had bestowed the white cloak on him when he was three-and-twenty, after he slew Maelys the Monstrous during the War of the Ninepenny Kings. In that same cloak he had stood beside the Iron Throne as madness consumed Jaehaerys's son Aerys. Stood, and saw, and heard, and yet did nothing.

But no. That was not fair. He did his duty. Some nights, Ser Barristan wondered if he had not done that duty too well. He had sworn his vows before the eyes of gods and men, he could not in honor go against them … but the keeping of those vows had grown hard in the last years of King Aerys's reign. He had seen things that it pained him to recall, and more than once he wondered how much of the blood was on his own hands. If he had not gone into Duskendale to rescue Aerys from Lord Darklyn's dungeons, the king might well have died there as Tywin Lannister sacked the town. Then Prince Rhaegar would have ascended the Iron Throne, mayhaps to heal the realm. Duskendale had been his finest hour, yet the memory tasted bitter on his tongue.

-ADWD, The Queensguard

PROTECTIVENESS

"Your Grace," said Ser Barristan Selmy, the lord commander of her Queensguard, "there is no need for you to see this."

-ADWD, Daenerys I

Ser Barristan watched with ill-concealed apprehension. "You should not linger here overlong, Your Grace. The Astapori are being fed, as you commanded. There's no more we can do for the poor wretches. We should repair back to the city."

-ADWD, Daenerys VI

My brave captain. Even so, of late he grew too bold. On the day that he returned from his latest sortie, he had tossed the head of a Yunkish lord at her feet and kissed her in the hall for all the world to see, until Barristan Selmy pulled the two of them apart. Ser Grandfather had been so wroth that Dany feared blood might be shed.

-ADWD, Daenerys VIII

Drogon roared full in her face, his breath hot enough to blister skin. Off to her right Dany heard Barristan Selmy shouting, "Me! Try me. Over here. Me!"

-ADWD, Daenerys IX

TELLING JOKES

"Ser Barristan," she called, "I know what quality a king needs most."

"Courage, Your Grace?"

"Cheeks like iron," she teased. "All I do is sit."

-ADWD, Daenerys I

She turned her back upon the night, to where Barristan Selmy stood silent in the shadows. "My brother once told me a Westerosi riddle. Who listens to everything yet hears nothing?"

"A knight of the Kingsguard." Selmy's voice was solemn.

-ADWD, Daenerys III

UNSEEN GESTURES OF AFFECTION

Dany climbed into her litter frowning, and beckoned Arstan to climb in beside her. A man as old as him should not be walking in such heat.

-ASOS, Daenerys II

The servants' steps were the quickest way down—not grand, but steep and straight and narrow, hidden in the walls. Ser Barristan brought a lantern, lest she fall.

-ADWD, Daenerys II

The old knight took pains not to look at her bare breast as he spoke to her.

-ADWD, Daenerys III

That made her laugh. "How fare your orphans, ser?"

The old knight smiled. "Well, Your Grace. It is good of you to ask." The boys were his pride. "Four or five have the makings of knights. Perhaps as many as a dozen."

-ADWD, Daenerys V

Daenerys would need protectors her own age about her after he was gone, and Ser Barristan was determined to give her such.

-

Daenerys Targaryen had preferred to hold court from a bench of polished ebony, smooth and simple, covered with the cushions that Ser Barristan had found to make her more comfortable.

-

Clean as he had ever been, he rose, dried himself, and clad himself in whites. Stockings, smallclothes, silken tunic, padded jerkin, all fresh-washed and bleached. Over that he donned the armor that the queen had given him as a token of her esteem. The mail was gilded, finely wrought, the links as supple as good leather, the plate enameled, hard as ice and bright as new-fallen snow.

Ned did not feign surprise; Robert's hatred of the Targaryens was a madness in him. He remembered the angry words they had exchanged when Tywin Lannister had presented Robert with the corpses of Rhaegar's wife and children as a token of fealty. Ned had named that murder; Robert called it war. When he had protested that the young prince and princess were no more than babes, his new-made king had replied, "I see no babes. Only dragonspawn."

-

[Robert's] voice had grown so loud that his horse whinnied nervously beneath him. The king jerked the reins hard, quieting the animal, and pointed an angry finger at Ned. "I will kill every Targaryen I can get my hands on, until they are as dead as their dragons, and then I will piss on their graves." Ned knew better than to defy him when the wrath was on him. If the years had not quenched Robert's thirst for revenge, no words of his would help.

-

"Treachery was a coin the Targaryens knew well," Robert said. The anger was building in him again. "Lannister paid them back in kind. It was no less than they deserved. I shall not trouble my sleep over it."

AGOT, Eddard II

"Robert, I ask you, what did we rise against Aerys Targaryen for, if not to put an end to the murder of children?"

"To put an end to Targaryens!" the king growled.

-AGOT, Eddard VIII

"Rhaegar… Rhaegar won, damn him. I killed him, Ned, I drove the spike right through that black armor into his black heart, and he died at my feet. They made up songs about it. Yet somehow he still won. He has Lyanna now, and I have [Cersei]." The king drained his cup.

-AGOT, Eddard X

Robert could be merciful. Ser Barristan was scarcely the only man he had pardoned. Grand Maester Pycelle, Varys the Spider, Lord Balon Greyjoy; each had been counted an enemy to Robert once, and each had been welcomed into friendship and allowed to retain honors and office for a pledge of fealty. So long as a man was brave and honest, Robert would treat him with all the honor and respect due a valiant enemy.

This was something else: poison in the dark, a knife thrust to the soul. This he could never forgive, no more than he had forgiven Rhaegar. He will kill them all, Ned realized.

-AGOT, Eddard XII

If Robert Baratheon had found out about Jon being the child of Rhaegar & Lyanna, the child Lyanna died after giving birth to, and that Ned had hid Jon from him all these years: he would throw Ned into a cell and order Jon killed.

Robert is not rational when it comes to the Targaryen family. Lyanna was someone he viewed as his property & revenge for her belonged to him, a thought that was in many ways his greatest fantasy & only comfort. There is a point of no return for Robert, where his anger overcomes all reason, where even Ned his closest childhood friend seems to fear him. Ned knew better than to defy him when the wrath was on him. It would be a personal betrayal, for Ned to have done this. This he could never forgive.

He wouldn't see Jon as the boy Ned raised for 14 years, would he? He'd see Rhaegar, Rhaegar "winning," Rhaegar's victory. Rhaegar's children were babies yet Robert says their deaths were deserved and doesn't even consider them children. Over a decade later, they still rouse his anger. They were extensions of Rhaegar so they had to die. Why is Jon different? To Aegon, to Rhaenys, to Daenerys who Robert actively has a hit on; would have gladly killed before if he'd been able? What makes him different than the other dragonspawn?

Thoughts?

i haven't watched the show & in general i don't like to pay too much attention to what actors say of characters they play. i'm very hesitant to participate in celebrity/stan culture where effectively some dude's opinion is given influence over mine by virtue of them being famous. i only ever talk about asoiaf, it's supplemental materials, & the creator's informing thoughts on here cause that's all i feel confident in/informed enough to speak of

that said i'm also confused by your question a bit, the Ned would be disappointed in Jon for bending the knee to a Targaryen part seems a stretch. we can walk through how i approach it:

"Daenerys Targaryen has wed some Dothraki horselord. What of it? Shall we send her a wedding gift?"

-

"He would say that even a million Dothraki are no threat to the realm, so long as they remain on the other side of the narrow sea," Ned replied calmly. "The barbarians have no ships. They hate and fear the open sea."

The king shifted uncomfortably in his saddle. "Perhaps. There are ships to be had in the Free Cities, though. I tell you, Ned, I do not like this marriage. There are still those in the Seven Kingdoms who call me Usurper. Do you forget how many houses fought for Targaryen in the war? They bide their time for now, but give them half a chance, they will murder me in my bed, and my sons with me. If the beggar king crosses with a Dothraki horde at his back, the traitors will join him."

"He will not cross," Ned promised. "And if by some mischance he does, we will throw him back into the sea. Once you choose a new Warden of the East—"

The king groaned. "For the last time, I will not name the Arryn boy Warden. I know the boy is your nephew, but with Targaryens climbing in bed with Dothraki, I would be mad to rest one quarter of the realm on the shoulders of a sickly child."

Ned was ready for that. "Yet we still must have a Warden of the East. If Robert Arryn will not do, name one of your brothers. Stannis proved himself at the siege of Storm's End, surely."

-AGOT, Eddard II

ned's first reaction to robert bringing up the potential threat of viserys/daenerys is complete dismissal and a sinking feeling that robert has lived in the past so long that it's now the only language he speaks. this whole conversation (which i've only excerpted) has ned continuously brushing off robert's blustering in favor of addressing a more pressing issue: the wardenship of the east, and the lannister influence over robert's court. ned's dogged practicality clashes with robert's quickness to rage

the divide there is obvious. robert is in many ways still fighting the rebellion. ned has put down his weapons and catalogued the scars. it irks him that the lannisters benefitted from treachery & dishonor, and when ned sees gregor clegane (who raped elia and killed baby aegon) in king's landing he watches the man with "disquiet," against his own explicit policy of not listening to nor judging men based on rumor (speaking of! daenerys' dragons are, of course, little more than rumor in westeros)

"Robert, I ask you, what did we rise against Aerys Targaryen for, if not to put an end to the murder of children?"

"To put an end to Targaryens!" the king growled.

"Your Grace, I never knew you to fear Rhaegar." Ned fought to keep the scorn out of his voice, and failed. "Have the years so unmanned you that you tremble at the shadow of an unborn child?"

-AGOT, Eddard VIII

i think it's clear enough by now. ned does not share robert's deep hatred of all things targaryen. he rose in rebellion because he was pushed to the brink, the murder of his father & brother among other northern noblemen by aerys, lyanna missing, the call for his and robert's head by aerys, injustice after injustice and even then, ned was fighting aerys specifically—you can listen to grrm's thoughts on the matter here if you'd like. he cites the fact that ned was "radicalized" by a "personal grievance," i.e. reluctant to conflict until the situation became personally unbearable, despite the immorality of aerys' actions pre-dating rickard/brandon's executions. ned's clashing with the lannisters is not dissimilar in that, despite his distaste for them being 14 years old, he's only moved to act when his loved ones (jon arryn/robert/bran/sansa and arya) are affected.

AGOT Bran I also comes to mind, where we get a crash course in ned's ideas of justice, ranging from theon's hostage/ward presence, to swinging the sword himself, to the conversation he has with bran about bravery and duty.

to answer your question on whether ned would change his mind about assassinating daenerys should news of dragons hatching come to him, let me bring into context ned's three dealings with potential threats he takes seriously:

first, AGOT Catelyn I, where they speak of mance rayder king beyond the wall as well as the supernatural Others, who ned immediately dismisses as a fairytale (another clue on how seriously he'd take rumors of dragons hatching):

["]The day may come when I will have no choice but to call the banners and ride north to deal with this King-beyond-the-Wall for good and all."

"Beyond the Wall?" The thought made Catelyn shudder.

Ned saw the dread on her face. "Mance Rayder is nothing for us to fear."

"There are darker things beyond the Wall." She glanced behind her at the heart tree, the pale bark and red eyes, watching, listening, thinking its long slow thoughts.

His smile was gentle. "You listen to too many of Old Nan's stories. The Others are as dead as the children of the forest, gone eight thousand years. Maester Luwin will tell you they never lived at all. No living man has ever seen one."

second, ned's growing belief that the lannisters are behind both jon arryn's death and bran's fall, and how robert would react to it:

This was the boy he had grown up with, he thought; this was the Robert Baratheon he'd known and loved. If he could prove that the Lannisters were behind the attack on Bran, prove that they had murdered Jon Arryn, this man would listen. Then Cersei would fall, and the Kingslayer with her, and if Lord Tywin dared to rouse the west, Robert would smash him as he had smashed Rhaegar Targaryen on the Trident. He could see it all so clearly.

third, ned's plan to use theon as a means of getting balon greyjoy's fleet should there be war to come:

When the door had closed behind him, Ned turned back to his wife. "Once you are home, send word to Helman Tallhart and Galbart Glover under my seal. They are to raise a hundred bowmen each and fortify Moat Cailin. Two hundred determined archers can hold the Neck against an army. Instruct Lord Manderly that he is to strengthen and repair all his defenses at White Harbor, and see that they are well manned. And from this day on, I want a careful watch kept over Theon Greyjoy. If there is war, we shall have sore need of his father's fleet."

so basically: a heavy reluctance to conflict. a deeply-held confidence in the martial power of the north to preserve itself. a miscalculation of how the recent conflict in which balon greyjoy's sons were killed or taken hostage might have permanently soured any possibility of allyship between the north & the iron islands.

so do you see that i do not think word of queen daenerys nor rumors of her dragons would necessarily move ned to any sort of proactive violence? the concept of 'swinging the sword yourself' is also one that makes me strongly disagree. ned would never agree with the idea of assassinating daenerys targaryen, or anyone really. it's not his moral code nor is it really his game

[T]he man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die.

"One day, Bran, you will be Robb's bannerman, holding a keep of your own for your brother and your king, and justice will fall to you. When that day comes, you must take no pleasure in the task, but neither must you look away. A ruler who hides behind paid executioners soon forgets what death is."

-

That brought a bitter twist to Ned's mouth. "Brandon. Yes. Brandon would know what to do. He always did. It was all meant for Brandon. You, Winterfell, everything. He was born to be a King's Hand and a father to queens. I never asked for this cup to pass to me."

-

It was all too much. For a moment Eddard Stark wanted nothing so much as to return to Winterfell, to the clean simplicity of the north, where the enemies were winter and the wildlings beyond the Wall.

i also would just pose the question of why ned would be disappointed in jon for bending the knee at a moment when the north is in dire straits, the lannisters hold power in king's landing, and winterfell is occupied by the boltons? how does this square?

daenerys coming north & displaying concern for the northern people in a direct parallel to alysanne whose visit remains fondly remembered would, i believe, be a metric ton of goodwill that jon would have to be much less adept than he is not to recognize. robb, ned's actual narrative successor, made the mistake of not allying himself with renly, remember? and keep in mind jon's relationship with northern xenophobia (against the wildlings), in the middle of descending winter/Others, during a war built on many a personal grievance of his own (deaths of ned and robb, his missing siblings, theon greyjoy's role in winterfell's usurpation) has him stuck between a rock and a hard place already.

oof this is a whole essay now, isn't it? i'll wrap it up but here's two last quotes regarding northern attitudes, to be put in context of daenerys' potential involvement there:

"Renly Baratheon is nothing to me, nor Stannis neither. Why should they rule over me and mine, from some flowery seat in Highgarden or Dorne? What do they know of the Wall or the wolfswood or the barrows of the First Men? Even their gods are wrong. The Others take the Lannisters too, I've had a bellyful of them." He reached back over his shoulder and drew his immense two-handed greatsword. "Why shouldn't we rule ourselves again? It was the dragons we married, and the dragons are all dead!"

-

hi and sorry for the long response time (I could begin all my answers with that sentence, lol).

I haven't seen the post in question so I can't really say anything about it! well, in general I would say the Lyanna parallels are multi-pronged as follows: 1) Lyanna as the archetypal Stark woman within the larger Northern mythos, which brings her in line with Arya, Alys Karstark, the Mormont women, Danny Flint etc. and includes the interplay between women & their male relations, in particular their "brothers"; 2) Lyanna as she exemplifies ASOIAF's thesis on love/love v. duty, her being no small part of the lead-in to Snowstorm's relationship which will tangle with ideas of gender, home, belonging, how we dance with the inevitable, how we live with the irresolvable, and so on; and 3) the existence of the maternal lineage.

When I say the maternal lineage I am not only referencing Jon as the son of her body, though that is important and I think Jon learning about his mother Lyanna will be what allows him to step around the wall of his upbringing to finally be at peace with claiming the Stark name. In AGOT Jon is denied two things by Ned: his mother's name and the surname Stark. Because of this, Jon dreams of Ned giving him the sword Ice which symbolizes claiming him fully (a lack that yes, did always exist between Ned and Jon) as a Stark, and he dreams of his mother, whose face he can "almost" see. By ADOS Jon will have both of those things, a bittersweet fulfillment of his childhood yearning.

However there is a larger idea of a maternal lineage in ASOIAF, as in, a spiritual lineage of women displaying various degrees of defiance, whose shoulders the young upcoming proto-feminists of the series will stand on and whose ambitions will be fulfilled. Most obviously this is about Arya and Daenerys. Really the whole Fire & Blood book is a telling of Dany's legacy/lineage, although the expansive (and often Queer) female nature of it is something that teases you until you give chase. And specifically I would write Dany's such lineage as like, the Amethyst Empress, Daenys the Dreamer, The Conquerors (all three), then the trio of female claimants in Queen Rhaena, Rhaenys TQWNW, and Rhaenyra. This is not to say Dany doesn't have other foremothers or that her forefathers are in anyway less meaningful to her story, actually Rhaegar and Aegon the Conqueror are two of if not the most important parallels she has to pre-series characters. Of course, Rhaegar & Lyanna are also spiritual ancestors to Dany because they are the prototype of her love story with Jon. That falls under category 2.

Arya is obviously the character who is most explicitly compared to Lyanna. It's done on purpose, Arya is one of George's favorite types of romantic heroines to write, and it's so illuminating a tether that I have written a post on them already! In part, this is how Lyanna's arranged in-text because if she was multiple times explicitly compared to Jon it'd be a dead giveaway, but also because the gender of Lyanna's story is crucial. Jon will touch that liminal space when he takes a backseat to Daenerys or Arya's right to rule, but yeah, Lyanna Stark Jr. always had to be a girl. Ergo Arya is the only character who I would say holds a candle to Jon when it comes to having a relationship to Lyanna. I have seen in the past Robb and Sansa be linked to Lyanna but often in frustrating ways, because while they do evoke certain similar scenarios/themes they themselves receive little to no meaning via this specific connection. Which is the point of parallels! "Characters exist to create literary discourse, not the other way around." So I would say there are certainly moments when such parallels could be made, however, it's a more appropriate and impactful reading to say these scenarios highlight the tensions which permeate multiple layers of the character's social settings, or emotional connections to other living characters, and less so about how Lyanna Stark haunts the three categories I explicated above.

I'll do two examples and them wrap this up. Robb's premature death is clearly foreshadowed throughout ACOK, though it does not happen until a book later. Lyanna also dies young. So does Jon, a book after Robb. Robb does things like say a verse of the Jenny of Oldstones song (a song which is important to the Rhaegar/Lyanna story and the general lineage of romantic relationships in ASOIAF). Jon receives the story of Bael the Bard from Ygritte, with him unknowingly positioned as 'the blue rose' (a symbolism which will be repeated for him). Robb falls into bed with Jeyne in grief over his two dead brothers (which is likely how Rhaegar & Lyanna's sexual relationship got kickstarted as well) and then, strongly evoking the emotions he experienced growing up a bastard half-brother who his own mother overtly disliked, he marries her in case she's pregnant. This breaks a valuable marriage alliance he previously brokered and is one of several factors in kicking off the Red Wedding. Jon is unfaithful to his vows but he hides his Night's Watch cloak beneath his other belongings, symbolizing the complexities of infidelity/honor, body/heart. After Robb is murdered, Jeyne Westerling fights to keep the crown Robb had made for her. Jon does not choose to stay with Ygritte; rather, the woman he decisively breaks his vows for is Arya, to rescue her from a forced marriage to a man Jon knows is monstrous.

Of these, I would honestly say that while Jon is clearly in the footsteps of Rhaegar & Lyanna, Robb's more impactful connection is to Ned's legacy, to his mother, and to Jon. As the lawful firstborn son, Robb is caught in the tension between Catelyn and Jon while needing to step into the shoes of his father far earlier and in more fraught circumstances than anyone expected. That's a situation Ned was caught in, too. Robb's reckoning with his father's choices while he seeks vengeance for his father's unjust execution is a really compelling story. The fact that a big part of Ned's deal was grappling with the specter of Lyanna in his life, of his choices in rearing Jon in a home where doing so came between him and his wife, is inescapable in AGOT, and it bleeds into Robb's life as well as that of every other Stark kid. I wrote about the whole Jon/Catelyn/Starklings shakedown here, actually.

With Sansa, I do not usually find those parallels revealing. I think they are surface-level, which is fine, and mostly in service of ships I either disagree with the possibility of ever happening (Jonsa) or don't personally connect to (Sansan, which I actually do think will ~happen~ to whatever extent). Also, I think many of the common Lyanna parallels honestly do Sansa's evolving story a disservice. 1) On Sansa & Ned. 2) The example I will get into here: the one of tourney roses. Loras Tyrell gives Sansa a red rose before riding a mare in heat in a joust against Gregor Clegane, who raped/murdered Rhaegar's wife and children. Rhaegar Targaryen crowned Lyanna Stark with blue roses at a tourney at Harrenhal. Is this a parallel which positions Sansa as the romantic heroine of said tourney?

Yes and no. The imagery is crystal clear. Sansa receives a red rose as the beautiful "unplucked" maiden whose flowering notes her as newly available. Loras's mare in heat is another nod to burgeoning fertility. Gregor's big sword is his massive dick, it's men's brutality, a metaphor Germ has never shied away from, and the final tilt is missed, and Sansa is not crowned. Sansa's rose an unfulfilled promise where Sansa is left without a husband (despite wearing Loras's flower), the Hound instead taking the purse and the unexpected love. Sansa's imaginings of her wedding/husband/wedding night v. the grim realities of her dealings with adult men are really present in her chapters, so in this case we are pointed as readers in a very obvious direction: Joffrey's coming abandonment/violence/her ongoing discourse with Sandor.

The reason this is not a Rhaelya parallel is because the end point for Sansa doesn't resemble Lyanna, for whom the blue roses do represent love and consummation. After all, they symbolize her son with Rhaegar, Jon. And blue roses are specific in-universe for their unique resilience and connection to Winter while red roses are moreso connected to passion, attraction, they're bright but quick to wilt/fade. I am not convinced you can fully come to the appropriate conclusions about Sansa's experience with the tourney if you are putting her in a Lyanna shaped hole, or vice versa. They just have very different symbolisms.

Total sidenote but, there is a portrait which IMO very much brings Sansa to mind. It's maybe Whistler's most famous works and it depicts an unmarried woman dressed in all white, but in scandalous disarray (for the time). Her undress implies that she has gained an intimate knowledge of the world... it's disappointing, not what she expected. Flowers have fallen from her hand onto the wolf skin (a conquered animal).

Wooooord anon i know we all tend to go on and on about “I want my bride back” but here are my Top 5 Arya being territorial about Jon moments:

5. Edric Dayne: Jon Snow is my milk brother       

Arya: first of all you’re from DORNE second of all who the hell do you think you are claiming Jon as your brother

4. Sansa: Poor Jon he gets jealous because he’s a bastard

Arya: hdu talk about him like that in front of God, the Septa and Princess Myrcella

3. Ned: Where did you get this sword?

Arya:

Arya: it’s actually Godric Gryffindor’s sword

2. Lommy: You probably stole that sword

Arya: Did you just call Jon a thief I WILL FIGHT YOU

1. Lommy: i bet Gendry is that traitor Hand’s bastard

Eddard Stark went to the window and sat brooding. Robert had left him no choice that he could see. He ought to thank him. It would be good to return to Winterfell. He ought never have left. His sons were waiting there.

(AGOT, Eddard VIII)

Compare as well the way that Ned once described his relationship to his own foster brother (deeply ironic, in this context. As an aside) with his initial hopes for Jon and Robb:

Ned shook his head, refusing to believe. “Robert would never harm me or any of mine. We were closer than brothers. […]”

(AGOT, Eddard II)

Lord Eddard seemed much younger this time. His hair was brown, with no hint of grey in it, his head bowed. “… let them grow up close as brothers, with only love between them,” he prayed, “and let my lady wife find it in her heart to forgive …”

"No less do I love mine." Ned thought, If it came to that, the life of some child I did not know, against Robb and Sansa and Arya and Bran and Rickon, what would I do? Even more so, what would Catelyn do, if it were Jon's life, against the children of her body? He did not know. He prayed he never would. - Eddard, AGoT

I do think that it will play an important role in pushing forward Jon Snow as a possible candidate for KITN. Without that decree, Jon will not in any way be relevant to the politics of the North.

IMO, the only reason Jon even became King on the show is because that’s a book plot. Considering how much Benioff and Weiss wanted Queen Sansa, considering that there is no way the North would have made bastard Jon Snow king when Ned Stark’s legitimate eldest daughter was sitting right there, and considering that the show hand-waved away both of Sansa’s marriages,  I think KITN Jon Snow is a book plot that they inserted in there without the writing to back it up.

And then there’s the things GRRM has mentioned in interviews:

I have a question, since Robb actually  legitimized Jon and named him his heir for Winterfell and the North  before the Red Wedding (granted no one knows about this and is still  alive or free, the Greatjon knows as does Edmure, but I dont see them  getting out of the Twins any time soon and Catelyn would probably die  before telling anyone) does this make Jon's rejection of Stannis' offer  moot?

Edmure and the Greatjon are prisoners, true... but you are forgetting  the envoys that Robb sent to Howland Reed... Galbart Glover, Maege  Mormont, Jason Mallister... they are all alive and free.

As to what is and is not moot... the key point is, only a =king= can legitimize a bastard......

GRRM SSM, August 06, 2000

It is GRRM who brings up that Glover, Mormont and Mallister are still out there and alive and free and were witnesses to the will. I think this implies that this point is going to be relevant.

GRRM has also stressed that at the end of the day, might is right. Meaning, whomever has the most houses and armies supporting them is who gets to be King. Robert Baratheon’s will was torn up to make Joffrey Baratheon king. The same can be done to Robb’s will. And that is even without considering that Robb was considered an enemy traitor and not a king by the Lannisters and Stannis.

I had forgotten that all the others signed and  witnessed Robb's decree. Also, wasn't Robb a King when he signed the  decree? Granted not king of much, with the North lost but he was a King  wasn't he?

He was a king in his own eyes and those of his followers... in the  eyes of the Lannisters and Stannis and =their= followers he was a rebel,  traitor, and would-be usurper.

GRRM SSM, August 06, 2000

On inheritance in Westeros:

Well, the short answer is that the laws of inheritance in the Seven  Kingdoms are modelled on those in real medieval history... which is to  say, they were vague, uncodified, subject to varying interpretations,  and often contradictory.

A man's eldest son was his heir. After that the next eldest son. Then  the next, etc. Daughters were not considered while there was a living  son, except in Dorne, where females had equal right of inheritance  according to age.

After the sons, most would say that the eldest daughter is next in  line. But there might be an argument from the dead man's brothers, say.  Does a male sibling or a female child take precedence? Each side has a  "claim."

What if there are no childen, only grandchildren and great  grandchildren. Is precedence or proximity the more important principle?  Do bastards have any rights? What about bastards who have been  legitimized, do they go in at the end after the trueborn kids, or  according to birth order? What about widows? And what about the will of  the deceased? Can a lord disinherit one son, and name a younger son as  heir? Or even a bastard?

There are no clear cut answers, either in Westeros or in real  medieval history. Things were often decided on a case by case basis. A  case might set a precedent for later cases... but as often as not, the  precedents conflicted as much as the claims.

The Wars of the Roses were fought over the issue of whether the  Lancastrian claim (deriving from the third son of Edward III in direct  male line) or the Yorkist claim (deriving from a combination of Edward's  second son, but through a female line, wed to descendants of his fourth  son, through the male) was superior. And a whole family of legitimized  bastard stock, the Beauforts, played a huge role.

The medieval world was governed by men, not by laws. You could even  make a case that the lords preferred the laws to be vague and  contradictory, since that gave them more power. In a tangle like the  Hornwood case, ultimately the lord would decide... and if some of the  more powerful claimants did not like the decision, it might come down to  force of arms.

The bottom line, I suppose, is that inheritance was decided as much  by politics as by laws. In Westeros and in medieval Europe both.

GRRM SSM, November 02, 1999

I have seen some people state that no one can be disinherited and that legitimized bastards come after legitimate children. As seen above, GRRM has left all this deliberately vague. It’s very possible, that Robb’s will disinherits Sansa and legitimizes Jon, decreeing him as Jon Stark, KITN and Lord of Winterfell - directly putting him ahead of the rest of his siblings. People can be disinherited in Westeros - the question is if being disinherited will be recognized by everyone else.

Reasons for why this is possible - Robb Stark was adamant that Tyrion should not get Winterfell through Sansa. Even Catelyn was agreed on this. Robb would not have allowed for any loop holes for this to happen in his will. And second, Catelyn was strongly against Robb legitimizing Jon and naming him heir precisely because it would put Jon ahead of her children. I can see this as a plot point in the North in the next book.

Questions with the will:

Robb assumed that Bran, Rickon and Arya were all dead when it was written. Many houses like Manderly now know that this is not true. Rickon and Arya will both be back in the North in the next book. So will Robb’s decree still hold true if it’s drawn up with false information?

It all comes down to which house supports whom. I get the feeling that with GRRM’s SSM above, that houses Glover, Mormont and Mallister may push for King Jon Snow. Manderly and others may move for Rickon. And of course there is no way that Littlefinger and Vale Lords would acknowledge or accept Sansa’s disinheritance as valid. Littlefinger does not even acknowledge Robb as king.

All this deliberate vagueness regarding inheritance would also apply to when Daenerys comes to Westeros with a claim to the Iron Throne. Whomever has the most armies and support among the houses would have the better claim. With her dragons, Dany easily wins this one.

Day 6: Love is the bane of honor, the Death of duty.

“and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's name”

1. Rhaegar is above sexual promiscuity associated even with Ned's own best friend. Such commendation would not be (bitterly) acknowledged if he thought of a man capable of much worse sex crimes, especially in a personal grievance where Ned is subjective. Rhaegar being someone thought of as capable of sexual depravity is struck out.

1a. "The Tower of Joy, he named it" - the "melancholic" Prince.

2. Lyanna was "willful" and just like Brandon "it led her to an early grave". Lyanna is thought of as active in the circumstances of her death. That death we know would be childbirth. Lyanna being someone having a pregnancy forced on her is struck out.

2a. Lyanna speaks against her engagement that seems to go forward against her openly spelling it out. A reason why she would remove herself from her family.

cw csa; cw rape

sorry this is going to be long. so his murder of shae is about tysha. sort of his entire life revolves around what happened to tysha. she is a formative memory the way jon being ned stark's son is foundational to his conception of the self or the way dany's memory of having had a home once in braavos - in a house with the red door and the lemon tree - is what her identity is founded on. what tyrion has known all his adult life is that when he was thirteen he deulded himself into believing that anyone could possibly love and accept him as he is. tywin made him believe that tysha was a liar and then made him a witness to her rape and finally forced him to be directly complicit in it. he sexually assaulted his son and told him it was his fault for having been deceived. tyrion does not see it that way, i think, because he doesn't have the language to talk about it but it's a traumatic experience, he feels immense guilt and humiliation whenever he thinks about tysha (“He gave her to his guards. A barracks full of guards. He made me … watch.” Aye, and more than watch. I took her too … my wife …)

a couple things going on here which will define his character moving forward - this is a lesson from tywin about tyrion's worth, he's being cast as this abject figure as he's sexually humiliated and made to believe he can only have transactional relationships - it's why he seeks out sex workers. but the memory of tysha and the love they had before tywin distorted it is also something he's forever trying to recreate. this necessarily involves unwanted projection of course, it's pretty clear with how he treats shae, who was never interested in anything more than simply conducting business but it's a big part of the reason why he's so taken with her.

I’m free of Tysha now, he thought. She’s haunted me half my life, but I don’t need her anymore, no more than I need Alayaya or Dancy or Marei, or the hundreds like them I’ve bedded with over the years. I have Shae now. Shae. —A Clash of Kings, Tyrion VII

the other thing is that whenever we see tywin interacting with tyrion he's trying to deny him independence he should have as an adult, indeed his anger with the tysha business is largely about tyrion getting out of his grasp and making a decision for himself. so this experience is also a lesson about how nobody outside the family will love or accept tyrion, that he owes his life and loyalty to house lannister. which is really how noble houses work in westeros but it's made especially clear to tyrion that because of his disability, tywin is doing him a favour simply by keeping him alive and that he has no recourse outside the family -

Had I been born a peasant, they might have left me out to die, or sold me to some slaver’s grotesquerie. Alas, I was born a Lannister of Casterly Rock, and the grotesqueries are all the poorer. Things are expected of me. My father was the Hand of the King for twenty years. My brother later killed that very same king, as it turns out, but life is full of these little ironies. My sister married the new king and my repulsive nephew will be king after him. I must do my part for the honor of my House, wouldn’t you agree? —A Game of Thrones, Tyrion II

so he does his part by perpetuating dynastic violence. the tyrion we see in acok is basically the sole power behind the lannister regime (grrm called him a 'villain' in 1999 when acok came out and what he obviously meant was that he is an antagonistic force against the starks (and stannis) in that book. i also find he does more harm in it (than say, adwd) simply by virtue of assisting the lannister cause. ignores the night's watch's warnings of a great danger beyond the wall while doing it) and if he thinks tywin will ever accept him or show him any affection for loyally serving their family he's completely mistaken, as he slowly realises over the course of asos (But it is high summer for House Lannister. So why am I so bloody cold?)

then he's framed for joffrey's murder and the trial is this grotesque repetition of the tysha incident. he's once against being publicly, sexually humiliated - tywin coerces shae (coercion is implied i think but either way) into revealing his sexual exploits and all his deep seated insecurities in front of the entire court and he's viciously mocked for it. then jaime tells him the truth about tysha and it's the kind of knowledge that destroys his world, his entire conception of the self is revealed to have been a lie and not only did jaime assist in its telling (personally i don't blame him much because he was also a teenager following his father's orders) he also adds insult to injury over here:

Jaime handed him the ring of keys. “I gave you the truth. You owe me the same. Did you do it? Did you kill him?” The question was another knife, twisting in his guts.

jaime too, on some level, bought into some of the ableist preconceptions about tyrion, or at least that's certainly the impression he gives tyrion here by even bothering to ask this question - that he thinks him capable of joffrey's murder. tyrion now feels betrayed by his entire family, including the brother he loved unconditionally, has been publicly humiliated at court, and climbs up the steps to tywin's chambers to finds shae over there - it's tysha all over again. he's sought to recreate what he had with tysha for almost his entire life and what he's handed is an almost perfect repetition of the aftermath. he had this thing with shae, and sure most of it was harmful projection on tyrion's side but tywin once again invades and like, colonises his personal life - renders something previously beautiful into an ugly and deeply shameful experience. where it differs from the original memory of tysha is that tyrion kills shae of his own accord, not because his hand was forced by his father. he strangles her with the hand's chain of office which is like this manifestation of all the power he had over her in acok as hand of the king but tywin is reinstated as hand in asos so it's also shae being victimised and dehumanised by both men in the end.

"Lord Tywin had me go last," he said in a quiet voice. "And he gave me a gold coin to pay her, because I was a Lannister, and worth more." After a time he heard the noise again, the rasp of steel on stone as Bronn sharpened his sword. "Thirteen or thirty or three, I would have killed the man who did that to me." —A Game of Thrones, Tyrion VI

and tyrion kills tywin this time. there's nothing else tywin can use to control him anymore, so tyrion kills him. and it's not even a moment of personal victory because tyrion has nothing else to live for - the meaning of his life that was derived from serving his family, dies along with tywin. that's all i think is going on with his relationship with and eventual murder of shae and no, i don't find this ableist the way the whole premise of "tyrion turning into the societal bogeyman everyone made him out to be" is ableist. it's one very specific instance of tyrion perpetuating a cycle of violence and abuse. and i don't have much trouble wondering how exactly he'll come back from it because of what i said here and because martin sends him east to dany.

the central issue with tyrion is that he'll never get recognition or be the hero he has always wanted to be under the chivalric paradigm. chivalry is for able bodied men who can perform violence and beautiful damsels who remain in their towers and tyrion is excluded from that construction of heroism (same goes for many of our main characters, "cripples, bastards, and broken things") he's a societal other cast out of westeros itself and dany's court is where you go once you're finished with chivalry and its false promises - see, barristan and how dany represents a chance to correct his mistakes with aerys. people talk about how he's only seeking her out of this desire for revenge but dany is also a personally relevant symbol of hope to him.

If I drink enough fire wine, he told himself, perhaps I'll dream of dragons. When he was still a lonely child in the depths of Casterly Rock, he oft rode dragons through the nights, pretending he was some lost Targaryen princeling, or a Valyrian dragonlord soaring high o'er fields and mountains. Once, when his uncles asked him what gift he wanted for his nameday, he begged them for a dragon. "It wouldn't need to be a big one. It could be little, like I am." His uncle Gerion thought that was the funniest thing he had ever heard, but his uncle Tygett said, "The last dragon died a century ago, lad." That had seemed so monstrously unfair that the boy had cried himself to sleep that night. —A Dance with Dragons, Tyrion II

people take this to mean he'll be a dragonrider and i don't know about that maybe he will be but on the simplest level it just refers to dany!! dany is the dragon he wanted as a neglected and lonely child. dany who has a similar experience with otherness, who also refuses easy categorisation (mother of dragons, mother of monsters) and there's a certain freudian element at play here wherein tyrion kills his father and goes looking for someone who is a mother to all who have been dehumanised.

"[A]nd this Mother of Dragons, this Breaker of Chains, is above all a rescuer.”

—A Dance with Dragons, Tyrion II

They wept and moaned, they begged for an end to pain, they cried for help and wanted their mothers. Tyrion had never known his mother.

—A Clash of Kings, Tyrion xv

Mhysa, they called her. Someone told him that meant Mother. Soon the silver queen would come forth from her city, smash the Yunkai’i, and break their chains, they whispered to one another. And then she’ll bake us all a lemon pie and kiss our widdle wounds and make them better, the dwarf thought. He had no faith in royal rescues.

—A Dance with Dragons, Tyrion X

Lions. They were going to set lions on us. It would have been exquisitely ironic, that. Perhaps he would have had time for a short, bitter chortle before being torn apart.

—A Dance with Dragons, Tyrion XI

“You swore to me that the fighters would be grown men who had freely consented to risk their lives for gold and honor. These dwarfs did not consent to battle lions with wooden swords. You will stop it. Now.”

—A Dance with Dragons, Daenerys IX

bottom 3

(cw csa; cw rape) it's not really brought up anymore outside certain reddit circles i think, but when adwd came out and the prologue had varamyr talk about the three taboos a skinchanger must never commit (Abomination. To eat of human meat was abomination, to mate as wolf with wolf was an abomination, and to seize the body of another man was the worst abomination of all) a lot of readers noticed that bran's already implied to have partaken in survival cannibalism beyond the wall and is obviously absuing hodor, which led to speculation that he'll be committing the third taboo as well. it's bestiality that is being prohibited here but for some reason it led to this claim that he'll be skinchanging into hodor and sexually assaulting meera in twow. what if a mouse drove a kia sorento.

egg doing summerhall is pretty bad for all the reasons i listed. and it's one of those wouldn't it be fucked up??? bits of speculation because this fandom looks at house targaryen's reign as three hundred years of constant misrule. we had a genuinely woke king and people were like but what if his wokeness... led to evil...

anything to do with the great empire of the dawn. idgaf about the great empire of the dawn sorry

top 3

bran is the three eyed crow in his dreams. this one is technically mine, bloodraven is not the 3ec is a pretty popular theory but the answers people come up with are like what if it was The Great Other wouldn't that be fucked up etc. i talked about this the other day - my alternative is that it's just his subconscious, it manifests as a crow because the broken tower from which he fell was described as being frequently visited by the birds, and bran always stopped to feed them corn. the final line of the chapter where he falls is: "Crows circled the broken tower, waiting for corn." - i have detailed reasoning for this one which i might get into later but short answer, this is very compelling to me because that would make his holy grail quest narrative about like, simply self affirmation. the grail he went looking for beyond the wall is himself. the narrative is also kind of deliberately casting doubt over the 3ec's identity, bloodraven actually never claims to be a crow. bran has three kinds of dreams: the tree dreams where a weirwood calls to him (this is bloodraven), the wolf dreams (sharing summer's skin) and the crow dreams (?) plus there's this : "He liked it better when the torches were put out. In the dark he could pretend that it was the three-eyed crow who whispered to him and not some grisly talking corpse." why does he feel the need to reassure himself?

lady stoneheart orchestrating the second red wedding. i like this one because it makes thematic sense and because i find catelyn to be somewhat inspired by kriemhild in the nibelungenlied. after her husband siegfried dies (siegfried would be robb here who sort of takes the role of husbandson in her chapters once ned dies) kriemhild is cast as this vengeful widow who orchestrates the deaths of everyone involved in his murder during a feast at atilla's court. no way to know if it's intentional but i find it interesting. i first made the kriemhild comparison during asos's epilogue where stoneheart mutely points in accusation to emmett frey, have wondered if it was modelled after the famous scene in the poem.

arya tying up the riverlands plot threads. the arya speculation scene is great, i like several different popular theories involving jon and cat: that she'll leave the faceless men for jon, be reunited with and then crowned by stoneheart in the riverlands, and then crown jon in return. it's all strictly working with the text without making any wild leaps and is correct about catelyn and jon being the two bonds that arya's chapters are most preoccupied with, so i expect some of this will happen.