Via's Corner

It's supposed to be a fandom space for adults :3

I really struggle making friends and joining pre existing communities is even harder so I thought i'd open my own community to make meeting people easier!

It's still pretty barebones but it's supposed to be a chill space to have fun!

I need you to imagine this as a conversation between Dream and Nightmare in a scenario where Nightmare actually wants Dream to stand up for himself and be his own person instead of being used by everyone around him. In this scenario Nightmare got over his beef with Dream because he saw how everyone else treated him and how he slipped into a deep depression and couldn't handle seeing him breaking himself like that. At the end of the day Nightmare is still his brother and, after all, isn't it Nightmare's entire thing to collect broken things?

CW for mentions of self harm and suicide attempts within the lyrics

Nightmare: Break the chains, take off your muzzle, stop being so damn nice

You please every-fucking-body but yourself, you know that right?

You let every person that you've ever known just suck you dry

And yet you wonder why you always feel so empty inside

Dream: But no, it's not my fault, I was raised to be kind

Nightmare: It's not your job to be everybody's ray of sunshine

Dream: But if I'm not nice, they'll leave

Nightmare: Let them

Dream: I need them

Nightmare: No, you don't

They think that you're just not digestible, so let them fucking choke

Dream: I just can't be that person

Nightmare: Why? Just be like this

It's not the end of the fucking world if they think you're a bitch

Dream: Stop it

Nightmare: Why? You know I'm right, you know that's why I'm here

You're done with all their shit and this is your fucking year

Babe, I'm here to help you, come on, just let me out

I was sent here from Hecate and I need to see this through

Imagine everything that you and I will get to do

I'm done watching you cry, I'm done watching you scroll

Every tear feels like a drop of acid burning through my soul

Dream: I'm sorry

Nightmare: I've watched you on the ledge, I pulled you back every time

I was the only one there for you when those assholes crossed the line

I was the scream that saved your life, I was the voice you found years later

I'm the home you fucking built so you could feel a little safer

So I can't just sit and watch while you carve up your thighs

I can't just give up on you, I won't let you fucking die

I won't let you fucking die

The rest of the song also fits incredibly well but this fits the best

"Im Strom der Zeit ist alles gleich. Gut und Böse, Tag und Nacht, Hass und Liebe. Was du daraus machst liegt allein an dir"

Translation:

"In the stream of time everything's the same. Good and evil, light and dark, hate and love. What you do with it is up to you alone."

Now the quote continues, or has a second part rather. And that just reminds me of every single rivalry and fight there is in the multiverse. From Ink and Error to Dream and Nightmare to other rivals i have forgotten right now

"Das Gute erkennt man nur, weil es auch böses gibt. Und Stärke zeigt sich dann, wenn auch das Schwache siegt. Der Hass ist so alt wie diese Welt, die Liebe ist ihm vorangestellt."

Translation:

"Good can only be recognized because there's evil. And strength only shows if weakness wins, too. Hate is as old as this world, love came before."

We know that Chara thinks very lowly of humans, meaning their home probably wasn't great which would explain why they ran away and climbed a wholeass mountain.

Then we have Frisk, a kid we have barely any info on but the fact that in the pacifist route we can say "I have nowhere to go" is pretty telling.

I do enjoy the take in Undertale Yellow that Clover was investigating a missing kid, but i think that'd be the exception and not the rule.

On that note, the entrance to the mountain is probably closed off, too. A precaution set after the war and kept going afterwards as tradition and superstition by the locals. Meaning besides the already incredible feat of climbing a mountain, you'd also need the intent to bypass the barriers closing off the mountain path.

I wholeheartedly believe Chara's incident started a rumor that the mountain is where kids go missing and are killed by monsters and the other 7 children went from there.

"But according to Toriel they all left to go home" Yeah, because they're children. Children are rarely coherent or rational in their decisions, especially when they're scared. Or maybe the stay at the ruins, perhaps a long talk with Toriel about their home situations, gave them new hope to face everything, a new outlook at life, and they wanted to try again and keep living instead of throwing it away. That's why they left the ruins and eventually met their fate.

Alphys, Mettaton, Papyrus and Undyne all never saw a human before meeting Frisk. Or at the very least Undyne never really knew much about them until Alphys began showing her manga. This either implies that a very long time passed between the last human and Frisk or they all died incredibly quickly. Given how trigger happy Sans would've been before if not for the promise to Toriel and his job as a judge i can't help but wonder if he killed the other humans or if there really was just an incredibly long time in between fallen humans.

English translation in red

Immer kommst du zur falschen Zeit auf die Welt

(You’re always being born at the wrong time)

Dein erstes Wort ist "ich" und nicht "du"

(Your first word is "me" not "you")

Dein Pate ist die Liebe, die nur einen Sommer hält

(Your godparent is the love that only lasts one summer)

Er passt dir nicht, dieser gold'ne Schuh

(This golden shoe doesn't fit)

Deine Eltern tun sich mit Worten weh, treffen immer dich dabei

(Your parents hurt eachother with words and always hurt you with it)

So sterben die Gefühle, wie ein Schmetterlings im Schnee

(This way feelings die, like a butterfly in the snow)

Zu früh geboren, doch stolz und frei

(Born too early, but proud and free)

Halbkind

(Halfchild)

Deine Mutter ist die Sonne, dein Vater ist der Mond

(Your mother is the sun, your father is the moon)

Halb Sonne, halb Mond, halb Kind und ganz allein, wie Halbkinder sind

(Half sun, half moon, half child and all alone, as halfchildren are)

Halbkind

(Halfchild)

Deine Mutter ist fern und heiß

(Your mother is far and hot)

Dein Vater ist nah und kalt

(Your father is near and cold)

Selten jemand der dich liebt

(Seldom someone who loves you)

Und du suchst Halt

(And you look for stability/support)

Wie der Blick deiner Augen, endlos und weit

(Like the look of your eyes, endless and wide)

So schwebst du zwischen hier, hier und dort

(You float between here, here and there)

Gleich weit entfernt von Kälte, gleich weit von Zärtlichkeit

(The same distance from coldness, same distance from tenderness)

Du bleibst nicht hier und du gehst nicht fort

(You’re not staying and you won't leave)

Halbkind

(Halfchild)

Deine Mutter ist die Sonne, dein Vater ist der Mond

(Your mother is the sun, your father is the moon)

Halb Sonne, halb Mond, halb Kind und ganz allein, wie Halbkinder sind

(Half sun, half moon, half child and all alone, as halfchildren are)

Halbkind

(Halfchild)

Deine Mutter ist fern und heiß

(Your mother is far and hot)

Dein Vater ist nah und kalt

(Your father is close and cold)

Niemand der dich wirklich liebt

(Nobody who truly loves you)

Und du suchst Halt

(And you look for stability/support)

Halbkind

(Halfchild)

Deine Mutter ist die Sonne, dein Vater ist der Mond

(Your mother is the sun, your father is the moon)

Halb Sonne, halb Mond, halb Kind und ganz allein, wie Halbkinder sind

(Half sun, half moon, half child and all alone, as halfchildren are)

Halbkind

(Halfchild)

Deine Mutter ist fern und heiß

(Your mother is far and hot)

Dein Vater ist nah und kalt

(Your father is close and cold)

Selten jemand der dich liebt

(Seldom someone who loves you)

Und du suchst Halt

White is also a color that symbolizes purity and red, while having many meanings, in this case clearly stands for sin. Everything that's red is something that makes the purity fade. His own blood, the scarf of his dead brother and the determination he got out of desperation. He was pushed and forced into the sin that would later define him as he got desperate to commit. Maybe that wasn't necessarily the intention with the design but i like looking at it that way.

Also the contrast between red and white is just really pretty which is another thing that ties his design together!

And that's just his color scheme! I can't explain why but the pixels hiding his eye somehow manage to make him look even prettier and more otherworldly.

9 years and i finally had a fucking realization

Sans is comic Sans

Sans the comic

Comic is a short word for comedian

Because I've always just imagined he pulled an Elsa with it

No it makes sense i promise

Like

For one i think the canonical "the original Nightmare is dead and he's only the corrupted evil eldritch cryptid thing" is such a lazy cop out and takes any possibility of depth from Nightmare. Because now he's just evil and cruel for the sake of being evil and cruel. Like even most cartoonishly evil villains have more layers than that.

It's so much more interesting to keep the original Nightmare, just incredibly badly damaged. Morally grey characters rule. Like yes, he's still incredibly cruel and ruthless, but at the same time he actually has to deal with the pain he went through and, more importantly, the consequences of his actions as well as somehow dealing with his own emotions. Because as a completely unrelated cryptid he doesn't have any of that nuance. The cryptid doesn't have the connection to everything that Nightmare actually has. So many possibilities go lost with this.

He doesn't even need a redemption arc. Just let him suffer through conflicting feelings. How he deals with them is still up to how you write him. He can push everything he doesn't like or understand far down and continue on the same path he already is. That in itself is already much more interesting than whatever the fuck canon is doing.

But my favorite way for this to go is cutting Nightmare up into 3 phases. Early Nightmare, crisis Nightmare and late Nightmare.

Early Nightmare is the one that is active when he corrupts, fights Dream and takes in the other Bad Sanses (primarily the Murder Time Trio, although only Killer can go for this as well) as minions. He's fully cruel, sadistic, ruthless and acting fully and knowingly as a villain. He's pushing everything down that doesn't currently fit in his world view, probably not even aware of these feelings because he never explored them. He's protecting himself by being in massive denial.

Crisis Nightmare is beginning to have clashing feelings. He finds himself beginning to care, beginning to hurt and beginning to truly feel. His mask of sadistic cruelty and might is cracking and the humanity in him begins to peek through. He's at so many conflicts. "I once cared for Dream but he hurt me" "They're my minions, tools, so why do I feel protective over them?" "Why do i feel bad for what I've done to them?" "Why does the pain not go away and why does hating feel so heavy?" This version of him decides Nightmare's entire development going forward. He's confused, the child that never had a chance to grow up is finally getting a voice and it overwhelms him. Either he pushes all of this down and doubles down on his behavior or we go to late Nightmare.

This Nightmare has found ways to cope. He is allowing himself to care and let his guard down. He wants to make sure the misfits under his wing are taken care of, nobody cared for him so he could be different and care for them. It puts him at a disadvantage but it makes his heart hurt less so it's a win. This Nightmare is also more mature, mellow and emotionally intelligent. He's had so, so many years to figure out who he is and what he wants. He could reconcile with Dream or at the very least move on and do what he has to do for the sake of balance in the multiverse.

Point is though, he reflects, matures and deals with his boatload of baggage. Man has centuries for that, he quite literally lives outside of time and by the time him and Dream fight he's already had 500 years of stagnation when it comes to his personal development, so why not let him grow up at the prospect of responsibility and having to deal with actual people on a day to day basis?

Up until like, what, 2022/2023 i didn't have Nightmare on my radar at all. I knew he existed but didn't particularly care for him. Then i read Blue joins the Bad Sanses by @/darkxsoulzyx and how they wrote Nightmare and I loved that characterization so much because it adds so much depth to him. It was eye opening to me tbh.

And isn't that the point of Undertale to begin with? You always have choices. You can always make a good choice instead of a bad one. No one forces you to make a bad one. At any given time you can be better, even if your track record is horrible. Why shouldn't we hold AU characters to the same standard?

Like there's obviously bad ones no questions asked. In and out of AUs. Like what the early fandom did to Blue/Swap Sans or how heavily people infantilized Papyrus or how Chara was turned into a literal demon even though they did literally nothing to warrant that or literally every character blogthegreatrouge ever wrote

But like

Then there's takes that are hated that i can't quite get behind.

There used to be an uproar in the community about how fanon Sans' reaction to Papyrus' death was unrealistic as canon Sans doesn't appear to care that much, instead now shifting into the other extreme where he doesn't give a fuck about Papyrus' death at all. And like- where did people gather that Sans didn't care? Iirc in every neutral judgement or phone call he calls Frisk a dirty brother killer. He may not be outwardly emotional towards Frisk but that doesn't mean he can't grieve off screen. Sans and Papyrus are incredibly close and the idea that Sans wouldn't be all that bothered if he died is arrogant and lacking empathy imo. "But why does Sans only fight in the Genocide route" Because Sans generally avoids confrontation. He takes the path of least resistance and gives up quickly. Man's depressed and hopeless. But in genocide he HAS to do something. He's the only one who CAN do something given his powers. He's weak but in his own terms he's determined and he cheats at every turn. I really hate people making Sans this apathetic creature who doesn't have any big feelings when he's the opposite of. I replayed undertale pacifist recently and there was a great line from him. This is slightly paraphrased but "Papyrus likes to nag me on how lazy I am even though i'm the farthest thing from". We need to stop looking at the surface of a character and really analyze how they act before we throw them from one extreme to the next.

Or another thing where i really adore fanon is fanon Dreamtale, as talked about at length in a previous post, and i also really like the current fanon Underswap Sans. We abandoned Blueberry, turning him into a meme/parody for the most part, and now have a really interesting and competent character in Blue. Is he still mischaracterized from what his creator originally envisioned? Probably. But he's still really nuanced and three dimensional. The current version of him has turned him into a favorite of mine.

There's so many more instances of where a fanon interpretation is viewed as bad but I don't see an issues with it because especially when it's a community effort the character ends up nuanced and interesting.

The Undertale fandom is so incredibly creative, with AUs too. Is it just a glorified OC maker at this point? Yeah. But it doesn't change all the masterpieces that came of it. We need to give ourselves more credit. The fandom is too big and too old so people will always dig out bad stuff and people will always call this community cringe and bad. But in all honesty? Most people here are really chill. A few bad apples don't ruin the batch. I've been in this fandom on and off when i was in 6th grade in 2017. I've witnessed a large part of what this fandom can do and has experienced. The worst people we've weeded out and we evolved their works from what was sparkly garbage to something more worthwhile and fun. Or everyone that landed in a cringe compilation back in the day was literally just a child and grew up by now.