Unbetitelt

Maybe this is a bit niche to talk about, but I´ve seen a few edits with El and her ending being compared to Lucy Gray´s ending in "The ballad of songbirds and snakes".

This post is NOT to criticize people who make those edits (I love them, they´re really beautiful) or the people who have that view on El´s ending. I just want to share my thoughts about this comparison, as I, personally think, it´s a great starting point to discuss why El´s ending doesn´t Work:

To understand this, let me get into the circumcstances of Lucy´s ending:

She wants to run away with Snow

She expresses that she wanted to run away for a long time but was scared of being alone as that would´ve probably lead her to go back to the Covey

As far as we know from Snow´s POV, she isn´t affected that much by leaving (She says the Covey are going to be okay without her and that district 12 probably wasn´t going to be save for her much longer)

At the end (if she survived, which we don´t know), she´s left with 3 choices: Either be killed or dragged back to the capitol by Snow, go back to the Coveys where she would be discovered instantly, or run away by herself. If she survived, there is no other option than running

The ending is forshadowed with the poem that she´s named after: at the end, you also don´t know if the girl in the poem survived. Similar to Lucy´s ending, we don´t have enough context to question whether she survived or not. Snow was in the forest alone and doesn´t even know if any of his gunshots hit her. Anything could´ve happened from there. He also looses her track and breaks down on the forestground. So again: Not enough clues to even have a guess. And you are not supposed to have an answer. It is supposed to be an eternal mistery that haunts Snow

Now with El, it´s a bit different:

She builds her support system over the years, a family and close friends and adapts to her life outside of the lab

We are told multiple times that she is not the monster and that she deserves a life beyond Hawkins and the UD

She ALREADY ran away alone! And you know what happened? She had every option to disappear completely, stay with Kali, or her aunt and mother or literally anything else. And she CHOOSES to go back. She is miserable without her friends, Mike and Hopper. And you are trying to tell me that she would be fine, IF she survived and ran away?

We are shown that there is a POSSIBILITY to hide her. They managed to do that for YEARS.

We are supposed o question what happened when she died. There´s supposed to be a logical answer as to how she could survive, but BOTH options do not make sense

Mike is not repressed homo, he is a depressed hetero for El 😭 but unfortunately media illiterates infest ST fandom like plagus so now Mike Wheeler who is forever pining after his dead girlfriend, Mike Wheeler who has trouble articulating his feelings because of his upbringing, Mike Wheeler who is a guy of action more than words, Mike Wheeler who has only ever loved and will always love El, Mike Wheeler who is a complex character is mischaracterised again because he is not the fanfiction™ Mike Wheeler Byl/rs read about on AO3

#FreeMike from them please......poor guy

Heyy😊, thanks for reaching out first of all. Sorry you got stuck in my asks for that long😂😂.

You bring up a very great point: why would Mike happily envision a future for Will with with someone else if he's supposed to be harbouring romantic feelings for him?

I also never liked the vibe that I got from some of the B/lers where Mike's flaws are only acceptable or reasonable when they stem from internalized homophobia. Like, twist and turn it however you want. But at the end of the day, you have to make up your mind: either you think he's an irredeemable asshole or you think there are explanaitions for his behaviour. But saying that there's only ONE acceptable reason is just a bit icky to me (again, I know, it's not all of them doing it).

And I also find it annoying how SOME of them try to act like the victims now and say they would've liked Mileven if it were only for XYZ and that they were queerbaited: No, because bad representation does not equal queerbait. And the proof they had was either things that could be taken multiple different ways or randome stuff that didn't have any connection to the romance plotline. Especially after that documentary, I think everyone needs to realize that the Duffer's aren't the genius masterminds like some of them thought.

Anyway imagine being so unemployed and dumb to have let S.N.L of all things ragebait you. No wonder #they thought mike was in love with will or would ever cheat on jane, by*ers are high on fanfics and hearsays its like most of them are 13 or something. Really embarrasing psst.

I didn't see all of snl, as I can't watch it where I live. So I only saw bits and pieces. But I saw the Bylers ripping the actors apart for it.

You're truly right about the hypocricy: If you're willing to defend someone who makes fun of the suffering of others, you shouldn't be mad about a joke that isn't even ABOUT Will's sexuality but rather about how the scene was executed. Something that the whole fandom has critiqued and made fun of. It's not about the content, it's about how they handled it.

Make MIKE be targetted by Vecna. Don't get me wrong, I loved what they did with Holly and Max, but it just created many issues for other storylines. It wouldn't magically solve everything buuuttt:

It would dispose of the need to age Holly up, thus erasing that plothole

It would leave room to explore Mike and actually give him agency when he was practically the only character who had none. And with the children later on it would delve into his leadership

It would give the party room for emotional scenes and reconnecting. Because, let's be honest, no one besides Nancy and Mike had PERSONAL stakes whilst saving Holly. But it would SHOW Mike as integral part of the group that's now missing. And you would be able to explore the dynamic between the core characters (maybe, the core party travelling to the UD to save Mike whilst the grown ups are on the right side up? And you could still have the emotional bond between Will and Robin before they go to the UD or after they get back.)

It would make SO MUCH narrative sense: Vecna HEARD and SAW how Mike's words saved El. He has a close connection to both El and Will. To not take that advantage basically served on a silver plattern is actually kinda stupid.

It would give us more time to explore the main ensemble cast instead of needing to establish new characters. And you could still have Derek and Holly starting a new party at the end of the series. It would just take up much less space.

Not the finale itsself but what went wrong with it: It is shown so many times that they scetched out the finale late in the production, when presumably the first four episodes were being shot. Meaning, that they themselves wrote the season without knowing where it would end up. That's why many things were left hanging up in the air till the end and everything felt rushed.

Nitpicking a couple that you don't like (which is your godgiven right) doesn't change anything about the outcome. The writers had Mileven as a couple till the last second. The intention was that they were seen as romantic. Like it or hate it, but the way this ended? The only thing you COULD say is that they did a poor job of writing them in general this season. As they did with other couples as well.

They make fun of Millie maybe or maybe not having botox

They talk about Finn and Noah being in a relationship (you should never EVER ship actual people that are not in an official relationship, that's basic respect. And that's not about gender, you shouldn't do this for Finn and Millie either. Like, saying they're cute and fit well together is one thing but actually talking about a relationship is completely different)

They make fun of the last Mileven scene. Which, yeah, you're allowed to have your own oppinion on it, but the way they do it is just unnecessarily cruel? Like saying the it was goofy etc. when it' very important to most Milevens (I think) as it's the LAST we got.

Because NO MATTER what, don't you think Mike would want closure AT SOME POINT? Like, imagine if he truly moved on (maybe even with someone else), though that thought tears my soul open because it's what he would deserve but I'll forever miss Mileven. Wouldn't he still want closure eventually?

El was such a huge part of his life. Losing her was his biggest fear (I can't repeat that enough because the Duffer' appearently forgot) !!! And you really want me to believe that he's forever going to be content with not knowing?

Especially because living with this idea that she's still alive is very likely to severely hold him back if it's not true. Because he'd forever conciously or unconciously wait for her to some capacity.

Because another thing that just occured to me: Kali's and El's powers are completely different. Now you're asking, why is that important? Because the whole reason why Kali said they needed to go on the suicide mission was that someday the military would find her and kill her friends like they did with Kali. But Kali a) unfortionately did not have the support system El had. I mean, they managed to hide her effectively several times. And she got caught again by the military ONCE because: she didn't have her powers. And the reason why she even was on their radars again in the first place was because she needed to fight the upside down and therefore exposed herself again. Also Dr Owens is still SOMEwhere. b) as I said before has completely different powers. Hers (as we all know) create illusions. She can only defend herself with them to a certain extend. Because if someone gets behind the illusion, that's it. But El? Did you see how fast she got rid of ALL the military guys in that scene? She's far more powerful in combat than Kali (no shade against Kali, just stating the facts). So their chances in these scenarios aren't really the same to me? Maybe I'm really stupid. If I am, you can tell me in the comments XD.

Overall plot and characters:

I think all in all, it wasn't the perfect climax and certainly not as epic as they teased. But I think they did the best they could with the way everything was set up up until that point. But I get if people don't like it, I also have my problems. Though I loved the epilogue for most of the characters. I think the storylines overall ended in a satisfying way. Ik, this is not that long, but I think there have been and are going to be people who talk about the overall plotlines better than I ever could. So I'll leave it with that.

Now...Mileven...:

To say I'm devestated is a bit of an understatement. Yes, these are fictional characters but the way they ended this is just so heartbreaking and unnecessarily tragic. Because no matter how you look at it, this is tragic for both of these characters:

If El's actually dead:

She killed herself with the bomb Mike build

Mike's canonically biggest fear came true

Hopper lost another daughter

Will and Jonathan lost their sister

The Party lost their mage

Mike either never truly moves on or

He does and even though it would be the best for him in this scenario, that still hurts from a shipping perspective

If El's still alive:

She's either seperated from the people she loves the most for the rest of her life

Or she makes it back at some point but everyone will have moved on without her

Like, what was the point of her entire arc then? What was the point of Hopper's speech about fighting for something beyond all of this? What was the point of her learning more about live outside of the lab?

ESPECIALLY, because, hear me out: the reason El "needed" to die was the military possibly finding her. And maybe I'm stupid, but that didn't even seem like such an inevitable thing to me. Like, there COULD have been solutions for that, at least that's how I feel like (e.g. her wearing a failsave at all times, a pill maybe, so if the military cought her she could take that or something along those lines. Ik, it's not a perfect solution but the fact that they didn't even talk about stuff like that really didn't make it seem like something that's COMPMETELY and UTTERLY unsolvable. Like, they killed the mindflayer and saved the world. Dealing with the military seems like a smaller deal to me.)

And also the fact that all of this was introduced IN THE SECOND TO LAST EPISODE. There was no time to explore this the way it needed to be. They knew how they wanted to end the story when they wrote the scripts. And they decided to sideline her, seperate her from the group again and again and not give her meaningful scenes for a proper sendoff.

And HOW open ended it is also buggs me. So open ended in fact the fandom can't even decide what actually happened. And I'm REALLY confused. Because Mike's theory on how she could've survived partially makes sense and partially doesn't. For example the part with the krypronite at the gate: the military expected El to be there, so it would make sense that they were active. So, how could she have used her powers? That's a logical question to ask. And with Kali having a change of heart and realizing what El will lose: We SEE that in the scene with Hopper. That's not made up by Mike, unless I'm supposed to believe all of this is how he remembers it and wrote it down and somehow only changed those SPECIFIC things. On the other hand, Hopper not knowing about a plan between El and Kali whilst he was with them the entire time doesn't really make sense. You see how contradictory all of this is?

And don't even get me started on the metaphor thing. A) It doesn't align with the rest of the narrative of the past seasons. They showed El growing more and more, becoming part of a family, going to school. Yes, she was severely bullied and that was horrible, but that's not a unique experience (it's always horrible, but sadly many people go through that is what I'm trying to say.) But she had the potential to live a relatively normal live. Like, that wasn't completely off the charts for her. And the narrative always said that she wasn't the monster and deserved happiness. B) That metaphor could've been included without that tragic ending. It is basically already embedded in the fact that the kids are growing up to do different things apart from one another. Or you could've let Mike and her break up and grow individually (would've not been a fan of that either, but better than what we got at least). Reducing her to an object or obstacle like that is just a disservice. Because aside from her and Mike, every other character got a relatively satisfying ending. And they didn't kill off any of the main characters before. Why do that now, with no proper set up, no time for proper resolution and an unnecessarily open ending?

Yeah, I've seen that too😂😂. And it's because they are in almost EVERY fandom. Like, there are sooo many posts about Byler in the PERCABETH tag. Like, of course you have other interests and you can make comparisons to ships you like, but dragging that into EVERY fandom space you're a part of is just a bit annoying tbh.

Idk how the overall story is going to go, as I've always been really bad at guessing this.

But one thing makes me really nervous: Mike being completely absent in ALL of the footage. And of course Ik that there's only so much that they showed, only snippets and moments. But the scenes in the tank? And the shot with El walking with Murray, Kali and Hopper? Those feel like moments where Mike should be present, right beside her. And he isn't. Which means, they split up within the group again -> EVEN LESS time for meaningful moments before yk EL AND KALI GO ON THEIR MISSION.

Like I said, maybe they really edited him out of those scenes (for some reason) or they do have moments elsewhere throughout the episode. But if they really get nothing AND we get the fakeout death ending, I'm gonna be pissed off. AT LEAST give them screentime ffsake. If you have to roll with that ending, AT LEAST make it as emotional and angsty as possible.

Ever heard if Max's letters? Not a peep, not even to say "She's not really dead, so we won't read them." Or "We threw them away". NOTHING (Could be that I missed a scene, so correct me if I'm wrong).

Or that storyline where Max pointed out directly that Mike was the ONLY person sensing El in the void besides the flayed? No explanaition in sight. You could say it's because of their feelings but that kinda raises more questions? That's also only my guess, so officially in the show no one gives even a guess as to why that's possible. Or if you could potentially develop that further. Especially because it could've been a cool way to make Mike more of an active part in the missions. Just imagine having Mike being able to communicate with El when they're in the UD. Seems like a pretty valuable skill to have.