‼️-17 DNI‼️Triple Pupil

This is a project I've been working on for a while, spurred by how often I see panels floating around with no source and trying to place batjokes moments in wider contexts. I assume it would be useful to other people, so I thought I'd share!

Link: Batjokes in Comics

What this spreadsheet IS:

A list of significant moments regarding the relationship between Batman and Joker in comics, ordered by cover date. (But you can sort your own view.) [EDIT: I've split it into different sheets by eras to reduce scrolling. But there's still much scrolling.]

Again, an ongoing project. It is not yet a comprehensive list. It may never be a comprehensive list, because there's so much content for these two characters.

Searchable not just by cover dates, titles, and creator names, but notable quotes and descriptions to help pinpoint events.

Full of spoilers.

Time-consuming. I check every issue so I know the sheet is accurate. Current planned entries are cobbled together at the bottom.

Open to feedback. If there's an entry you really want to see, feel free to send me enough information about the issue to look it up. It still may take me a while to get to it, though.

This spreadsheet is NOT:

An exhaustive list of absolutely every single time Batman and Joker are in the same comic. It may get close, but if they merely appear in the same issue and nothing of interest happens with them, it's not included. (For example, issue #2 of TDKR is left out.)

A list of recommendations. Comics I hate are in here. [EDIT: OK I've highlighted some I would suggest in green.]

A list of only "romantic" moments. Negative interactions are included.

"The knife goes in. I feel it. I make him feel the same."

"I made this wretch. I have to mind him."

"You do care!"

"You'll never be sad, and you'll never be lonely. You'll always have me to dance with. I know you can hear me."

"I can."

If you’ve heard of the impromptu Q&A panel Lee Majdoub hosted during Sonic Expo Atlanta and have been gnawing at bars to see it…

Today’s your lucky day!

Here is the FULL panel recorded by SleepySheepy and graciously shared with the community. The video is on the Stobotnik Archive channel, but reuploading and sharing clips is 100% permitted.

Currently, captions are auto-generated by YouTube, but I’ll be editing them in the coming days to ensure accuracy.

Currently in europa,

any recommendations for activities?

Is this a regular European activity? Strange how I’ve never heard of this. How am I even going to get that bat and clown here!!!

I’ll be back with updates…

Luckily, Matt Fraction's run doesn't go in the direction you assumed. And it's made me realize some things.

Batman ISN'T controlling in this run. He worries initially about Joker's well being, but when Joker explains the situation and how he wants to continue his treatment, Batman respects it. It's not like a Scott Snyder story where Batman drags Joker back into their routine. Unlike what we're used to, Joker here separates the trauma of his crimes from his relationship with Batman. And Batman's willing to grow their relationship to keep up the change.

And Batman isn't in denial(holy shit). Ofc DC won't let Batman call it 'love', but Batman seems to be on the same page as Joker about their relationship.

Unlike what we'd assume, Bruce hasn't shown any signs of rationalizing to himself what their relationship is because now no else needs to know how he feels. It's such a good feature from Fraction deciding not to use internal monologue, Batman never has to justify anything to the readers so he doesn't have to justify it to himself. And his family hasn't found out so he doesn't have to justify anything to them either.

Yes he's reaching out his hand to Joker, yes he's sneaking in to tell him he's(Batman's) safe, yes he let's Joker state how complicated their relationship is and listens closely, and the beautiful thing is he doesn't have to tell us why. He doesn't have to be in the closet due to the readers reading all his thoughts. He can be more comfortable.

Zeller knows about their interactions and he gives her what she may need to justify it/ignore it, but through his actions we can see Batman knows it's a lie. He knows Joker is important to him. He can pursue what he wants now with Joker. (when I say Bruce is with Zeller, it makes more sense after you've read the run, they went on ONE date and Bruce admires her dedication to her patients, but that's about it)

Matt Fraction's batjokes is the utter opposite of what Snyder does. And Batjokes here isn't a homophobic metaphor at all.

It's very refreshing

(ofc no shade intended towards scott's batjokes)

Source of this in the original post.

And since I don't see discussion on this expression, I want to share my piece as said in the reblog and see what everyone has to say about it and the original comment:

Wait, What do people genuinely think of this comment? I genuinely ask because I personally like it a lot.

The Joker can be seen as a caricature of the homophobe's view on queer people and Batman as a very very closeted side. Like Joker is the embodiment of what Batman fears he might become if he stops repressing himself, which is an obvious lie, just a delusion.

The phrase of Batjokes being a "homophobic nightmare" has not left my mind ever since I encountered it and I need to know what everyone else thinks of it.

@just-kidding-kid

I'm curious how Matt Fraction's run fits into this interpretation.

Joker is being separated from the demonic stereotype of homosexuality while still wanting a pursuing a relationship with Batman, and Batman mutually wanting a relationship back. Their struggle now is simply hiding it. Zeller can't know they're working together or about Batman's secret visits, and Batman would never discuss the more personal parts of their talks genuinely with his family(implied; they wouldn't accept a close not-enemies relationship of Batman and Joker easily after everything he's done. We aren't even sure any of them know he's gone to see Joker at all).

With this they're sort of moving past the homophobic undertones already. The other part now might be interpreting Joker's rehabilitation in this context. Joker's not lost his homosexuality at all, he still loves Batman, but he's being healed of the eccentric part of his persona, it may be best to interpret it literally as him stopping being a murder and nothing else. (there's probably more to say on this)

On another note, I'd like to point out how Bruce is dating Zeller. Explicitly, it's shown he decided to get to know her to learn about the crown of storms and figure out her motives. It was framed as Bruce having been suspicious that she would be a new villain in Gotham or that she is abusing her patients. Then Joker encourages him to continue going out with Zeller and he listens. Joker wanting him to get to know Zeller is presumably to continue knowing what's going on in his life (as he talks with Zeller about in Issue 6, trying to get her information on Bruce), and I wonder if our world's greatest detective realized that. Tying this to Miller, I'd say he admires her dedication to helping her patients, but it may not ever be much more than keeping track of what she's up to.

I admit, I am not fully caught up with Fraction's run. I am not suprised that Zeller is under suspicion. Personally, the idea of a device that physically alters brain patterns at her whim screams "I AM EXPLOITING MY PATIENTS". After all, how can a patient offer ongoing meaningful consent if their perceptions and thoughts can be altered?

MOVING ON...

I am curious about Fraction's run though because it moves their relationship into a different place, most importantly, one without violence, or even conflict! How do they (especially Batman) rationalise their relationship when the usual rituals which enable their interaction are removed? Batman can't hide behind JUSTICE to explain why he feels moved to see the Joker.

Perhaps that's why he's entered this relationship with Zeller. By making her a suspect and involving himself with her, he gets himself closer to the Joker and once again has him within his locus of control. And how defendible is his position? If she's innocent, "well, I'm just a normal guy pursing a nice, Straight, morally acceptable relationship! Nothing suspect here!" and if she's guilty, "I always knew it. It was for justice!". Both options leave a back door for him to claim it has nothing to do with the Joker at all. The closet strikes again!

But, again, I haven't caught up entirely. From what I've seen though, Fraction is a writer who recognises and even enjoys the queer subtext of Batman and Joker. I've seen a smattering of quite intimate moments shared between Batman and Joker in the comic which defintiely beg the question "Why would you do that if you didn't care?". It'll be interesting to see how far he stretches this situation, and whether anyone will call out Bruce on his behaviours towards Joker and how he is using Zeller as a way to get closer to him.

Bruce seems to almost want to unpick it as an evil plot so he can return to status quo, so he can get his fix and remain firmly in his closet. A Joker who is "good", or perhaps a better word is passive, would force him to act, not react, in the relationship and re-evaluate how he feels and acts towards him. Defintely a good axis to break free of this homophobic narrative and like you say, Fraction has already scored points for not doing the whole "Insane = gay" things (Criminality = Insanity = Homosexuality...its the Batman trio!). I only hope he brings it home!

(Subtextually, of course, this is DC we're talking about)

And yes this was inspired by onebadnoodle's drawing

This is such a COOL IDEA, you're right!! That art is amazing, oh my god. I didn't know of it. The Joker Who Can't Laugh. The Unsmiling Joker. Freaking galaxy-brained take right here and I need this in my life very badly.

How would he end up like that though... Hm. Funny thing is, Joker has a canonical tendency to take on different identities, other than Joker, when he thinks Batman is dead. So this falls within a conceivable realm, I just feel it'd take some very specific circumstances for how Bruce dies. If he died on accident or someone else killed him, Joker would more likely hunt them down, destroy everything, kill himself -- he wouldn't change himself. Batman Who Laughs as a concept is a Bruce whose brain has been rewritten to work like Joker's. It's not a combination of them, it's a Batman who agrees with Joker's methods. But what would a Joker who agrees with Batman's methods look like?

Ironically, something like Red Hood, maybe? He'd kill, but with a twisted version of Bruce's code. And if Bruce becomes Batman Who Laughs via him killing Joker, which symbolizes him breaking his one rule irrevocably and going dark -- the opposite for Joker wouldn't be killing Batman, I feel. Or rather, it wouldn’t be that on purpose. If Batman is tempted by the darkness (Joker's "Kill me and become like me"), Joker should be tempted by the light (Bruce's "I can help you"). It's what Snyder and then King have alluded to in other comics: the fact Joker wants to be stopped, that deep down he wishes Bruce would prove him right, that the world does make sense and that there is hope. So, my first instinct for a Joker Who Can't Laugh's backstory is a world in which Bruce managed to help him. Maybe a form of rehabilitation; maybe a trigger made Joker face his past and gain back some of his empathy; but all of it would have Bruce at the center, he'd be the one helping. And within this kind of context, if Joker had a relapse and acted out in some way, killing Bruce by mistake -- that might get him to become a Joker Who Can't Laugh. He'd hate himself (or his Joker identity) enough to change it, and incorporate parts of Batman in it (because with Bruce dead, this is the closest thing he's got left of him). I can entirely see Bruce dying in his arms dramatically and making him swear not to kill himself, but to keep trying to be better in his absence, help himself, help people. And then Joker taking on another identity that's not villainous, but it's certainly not a good guy, either.

The Joker can be seen as a caricature of the homophobe's view on queer people and Batman as a very very closeted side. Like Joker is the embodiment of what Batman fears he might become if he stops repressing himself, which is an obvious lie, just a delusion.