Trains in Anime (and other random opinions)

Marinette: You really think I could lie to my boyfriend like that? And to my BFF? And to the whole world?

She sounds and looks angry when she says that, which is an expression she didn't have when asking why she would've lied about Monarch. Obviously YMMV on the exact nuances of the tone (I would classify it as a mix of offended and indignant), but it's undeniably the tone of someone unjustly accused of something horrible.

And she is accused of something horrible. Alya's accusations are serious. Marinette is aware that lying about Gabriel being Monarch to Adrien, Alya and the entire world is a bad thing. So for Alya to imply such a thing about her best friend? To even consider that Marinette is such a horrible person who would be willing to do any of it?

Try to imagine for a moment accusing someone you're really close and love of being a pedophile. Not a fun experience, right? Leaving aside how half this site is so conflict avoidant that even telling someone a valid criticism to their face is something they can't do, accusing someone you love of something bad isn't easy for the accuser.

For one, there's the entire aspect of trying to reconcile the the person you love doing something horrible, which is complex and a big reason (although far from the only one) why it's unfortunately common for loved ones of abusers (who aren't being abused) to not believe victims.

But more importantly in our case, what if you're wrong? What does it say about you that you thought so lowly about the person that you were willing to consider that they could do something so horrible? Those are not the kind of things you're supposed to think about the people you care about. Many would consider it justified to reconsider whether you should actually be friends with someone who accuses you of something like that.

This is what Marinette is banking on. If Marinette was innocent, then Alya's accusations are an insulting. Alya knows Marinette, she's her best friend. Hell, she knows Marinette is a superhero! She should know better than to think that Marinette is capable of such a thing.

(If you doubt that this is the train of thought which is expected in such a situation, I recommend you go and check the reactions to Heartfixer. Quite a few people were pissed at Adrien for believing his girlfriend was cheating on him when he saw it with his own eyes. Most of their arguments boiled down to "Adrien knows Marinette and how much she loves him, he should've known better than to suspect she would be capable of such a thing.")

By acting indignant and offended, Marinette is implicitly making Alya to be the bad guy in this situation. Alya is the one doing something wrong here by thinking about Marinette so badly. She's shifting the blame, so that now Alya has to defend her actions (accusing Marinette) rather than Marinette having to defend her actions (gaslighting her boyfriend and lying to everyone).

And once Alya has to defend her action, she's implicitly accepting the premise that she's doing something wrong that needs defending in the first place. That would allow Marinette to keep pressing Alya about her being the bad guy for accusing Marinette, which would serve two purposes: 1) It derails the discussion away from Marinette's misdeed 2) If Alya is the bad guy for accusing Marinette, they could "resolve" the conflict by coming to a compromise where Marinette graciously forgives Alya for accusing her so long as Alya doesn't do it again.

This is a full-on manipulation tactic. Marinette isn't attacking the idea itself, she's exploiting human feelings and tendencies (such as the desire to not feel like the bad guy) in order to get Alya to drop the topic without Marinette ever needing to admit to anything. She's unfairly placing blame on Alya when all Alya did was try to hold her accountable. She isn't trying to defend herself, she's trying to make Alya feel bad enough that she stops asking questions.

This tactic ends up not working because instead of turning defensive, Alya is fully willing to own up to her opinion of Marinette.

Alya: Do I think Marinette Dupain-Cheng would do anything in order to protect other people even if it means ruining her own life? Alya: Yes.

I'm going to ignore how even in this Alya is framing Marinette as someone selfless and heroic, because that has to do more with with the show's bonkers moral framing of the big lie (which is its own can of worms) rather than the actual dynamic of the conversation.

But despite the dubious way the writers went about it, this is still Alya justifying her opinion and owning up to it. She rejects Marinette's framing of Alya accusing her being a deplorable liar and instead gives her own framing which is more accurate to who Marinette is as a person but still supports Alya's accusations.

(Ignore that Marinette is a massive liar and that Alya's interpretation is far more charitable than many would agree with. As said, this is the show's weird morality at play. As far as the narrative is concerned, Marinette is a long suffering noble hero who's willing to do anything for the people she loves, even if it means getting her hands dirty. So Alya's framing is very in line with who the narrative claims Marinette is.)

We also get a zoom in on Alya's face and a sound cue to indicate to us that what Alya is saying is not trivial. This is a serious thing to admit. Yet Alya says this calmly and with conviction. There's nothing about this that Marinette can attack.

So once again she switches tactics.

Marinette: Don't you think my life is enough of a disaster as it is? Alya: Why would you say that? Marinette: Because clearly *starting to speak in more panicked/stressed tone, sounding on the verge of tears* everything is falling apart! I couldn't defeat Hawkmoth and get his miraculous back, so now there's this holder of the butterfly miraculous. A new Hawkmoth, who's more dangerous than ever! They even attacked me and my family! Marinette: *starting to cry* I've never seen my parents so afraid. I'm scared too, Alya! We have to stop them, before I can't go on anymore. But we have nothing on them, we know nothing about this new butterfly miraculous holder! Whether they're a man, or a woman, or what their name is, or what they really want!

Those stresses Marinette is crying over are all very valid.

They're also utterly irrelevant to the conversation.

Like, just to put this in perspective, this is Alya asking Marinette "did you lie to me and gaslight your boyfriend?" and Marinette responding "my life is such a disaster" and starts crying.

None of the things Marinette speaks about have anything to do with the big lie. If the thing she was crying to Alya about was how hard making the decision to lie to Adrien was, or how stressful keeping it a secret had been or anything at all that's related to the big lie, I would be willing to read it as a genuine reaction that's only accidentally manipulative. That she burst under the pressure of Alya's questioning because of how stressed she is, and her tears are more an expression of her emotional turmoil rather than an attempt to fish for sympathy.

But that's not what happened.

Instead, the things she cried about was how much of a failure she is as Ladybug and how scary it was for the butterfly holder to target her personally.

Again, all things that she's genuinely very stressed about. But they're not things that the conversation reminded her of. Nor are they things that she was so preoccupied and bothered by that she was already on the verge of spilling them to anyone.

We saw her in the scene right before this conversation. The things she was preoccupied by and anxious about were the big lie and feeling like she's lying to everyone. She didn't bring up these topic even when she interacted with her parents (who were reassuring her of how supportive they were), where it would be the perfect opportunity to talk about it. If nothing else, her parents fully understand feeling scared because the new butterfly holder attacked them personally.

Marinette is choosing to bring those things up.

There are two possible reads here.

Either Marinette is just so stressed by the sheer act of Alya pressing her for answers about whether she lied or not, that she places it as equivalent to all those things she ranted about that make her life a total disaster. And so she starts crying because Alya is supposed to be her friend but here she is, adding even more stress to Marinette's life and helping ruin it.

Or she's bringing it all up with the intention of distracting Alya from pressing her about the big lie.

We don't actually have to wonder which read is correct because the show outright tells us.

Marinette: I never lied to you. Alya: Technically, you didn't. You just kept the truth from me and manipulated me so you wouldn't have to answer my questions.

Alya is framed in this scene to be the one cutting through Marinette's bullshit and saying the truth as it is. We're supposed to see her words and actions as giving Marinette a reality check. Therefore, we're supposed to take her assessment here as a correct read of Marinette's motivations in the scene. This is further supported by how Marinette doesn't even try to deny this.

The manipulation Marinette pulls here is two fold. She hijacks the conversation with something very emotional, stuff that Alya can't simply brush aside and return to the original conversation without feeling like a jerk.

And she tries to get Alya on her side by fishing for sympathy. Can't Alya see how much her best friend is dealing with? How her life is a complete and utter disaster so she needs to be coddled and reassured to let her know she's not alone? How can Alya keep on criticizing Marinette and adding to her burdens when Marinette is already suffering so much, doesn't she have a heart?

This time, the manipulation works.

Alya may be angry at Marinette, but that's still her best friend. She cares for her. She can't stay unmoved when she sees how bad Marinette is feeling.

*Alya's expression turns sympathetic and she approaches Marinette, dispelling the mirage in the process, and lays a hand on Marinette's shoulder.* Marinette: I've had this idea but it's very dangerous and I don't know if you'd wanna hear about it.

That's a very manipulative line. Marinette is implying that Alya wouldn't want to hear about Marinette's idea to stop the butterfly holder because Alya is angry at Marinette.

She's creating this false association where "being angry at Marinette" = "putting Paris in danger", and "helping save Paris" = "being on Marinette's side and not questioning her about the big lie".

If Alya continues pushing now, she would be doing it at the expanse of catching the butterfly holder.

Alya: If it can help save Paris, of course I wanna know.

But Marinette knows Alya would never do that. She's a hero, so she would pick helping Paris over questioning Marinette. That's the exact thing Marinette is counting on.

The entire thing is textbook DARVO (Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender), which is a classic manipulation technique that often comes out in response to being held accountable.

Marinette started out by trying to deny this was possible. Then she attacked Alya by implicitly placing her as the bad guy for accusing Marinette of horrible things. Finally she hijacked the conversation by painting herself as the real victim in all of this because her life is just such a disaster, you see.

And it worked. She did manage to get Alya to drop the topic and instead go and comfort Marinette. She got exactly what she wanted out of all of this.

For the short term, at least. But Marinette tends to only think about solving the immediate problem in front of her without ever thinking about the consequences beyond that. See: Her being upset that the boyfriend she gaslighted the entire season to think positively about Gabriel now thinks positively about Gabriel.

This wasn't just predictable, this was the outcome she was actively working towards. Marinette just never stopped to consider what achieving this outcome would actually be like.