I believe that Hawkins started getting flayed after season 2, especially after the Snowball '84. Something has changed in season 3.
My main reason is that Will was slowly pushed to the edges of the supernatural narrative in season 3 and totally in season 4. His sexuality arc was more apparent in these two seasons and while I absolutely have no problem with that, it's obvious that his connection to the UD was reduced to goosebumps and the hivemind. His trauma was also not explored deeply. His connection to Vecna was only shown in season 5. Idk if this was supposed to be a plot twist though.
Anyway, we know that Will overcame the Mind Flayer's possession in season 2 when his loved ones reminded him of their cherished memories with him. His birthday, Castle Byers, Mike and Will's first meeting and becoming friends... It is essential that Will is reminded of the fact that he is loved and remembered. And that is what made the MF to lose possession of Will ultimately.
And in exactly the next season, everybody is forgetting Will and moving on with their lives? Even Mike suddenly wanted to be grown up and not spend time with his friends anymore.
I'm not trying to sideline Mike's character arc, or any other characters' journey, in any way! So hear me out.
Will was forgotten by his friends; Mike was being pretty rude to him and he was going through his trauma alone while still grasping at DnD to live a childhood he was forcefully robbed of.
Will destroys Castle Byers, which has been his sactuary for years, in an attempt to 'grow up' and not be 'stupid' anymore. And remember it's the building of Castle Byers that Jonathan reminded him about in season 2. But then... Castle Byers is never mentioned again. Never. Not even Will thinks about it. How come?
In season 4, Mike arrives at the airport on March 22nd aka Will's birthday date.
Joyce, Jonathan, Mike, Dustin, Lucas, nobody remembered it. This is yet another memory Will is reminded of in season 2. (I'm still skeptical about the exact date of Will's birthday I must admit) Everybody is forgetting him. It's highly unlikely to me that Mike just forgot his birthday. He noticed every single microexpression of Will's at the Rinkomania so he was not ignoring his boy.
Then comes the "it was the best thing I've ever done" scene... While we know that Mike was not being completely truthful in the 'confession scene', does Will know it?
Again I'm not saying that the other characters' actions ultimately lead to Will's own arc. Mike is going through his own problems, just like Jonathan and Joyce.
But the emphasis is there.
We are shown Will destroying Castle Byers as an act of self-deprecation and anger at himself. We are shown the date at Rinkomania on the recording, reminding us that it was Will's birthday. We are shown Mike and Will side by side on the same frame as Mike 'confessed' to El. We are reminded of Will and his memories, all taken from him. Leaving him vulnerable and forgotten. Like he is being erased from the narrative.
Will is constantly made to feel like he is insignificant, that he is not accepted. And isn't that exactly what the Mind Flayer wants? To take over his mind and body? To make him another Henry Creel.
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Why Sorcerer's Ending is CG Proof(from a narrative structure perspective)
Hey guys what is so up.
So, among us CG truthers, it’s common knowledge that the ending of season 5 was made to be bad on purpose. This isn’t something that really needs any more proof, but I have another piece of evidence I haven't personally seen anyone else use that I’d like to share.
A couple months ago I made this post in which I went over narrative structure in ST, specifically the Midpoint. I described the Midpoint as something that tends to do three main things: change the narrative in some significant way(like in a twist or step forward for the characters), mark the switch where the protagonist goes from reacting to acting, and raise the stakes.
However, there’s another trait common to Midpoints that I left out on purpose so I could bring it up in this post.
Basically, Midpoints can oftentimes be a “fake out victory” or “false defeat.” They’re frequently the point in the story where the audience is led to believe that either the heroes have their win in the bag, or that they’re screwed. The fake out will tend to appear good in tragedies, and bad in stories that end happily. Not all stories necessarily have Midpoints that obviously fit this, but they’re pretty common.
As an example, in ST s1, the characters find Will’s dead body, leading them to believe that it’s over, they lost, and they won’t be able to accomplish their goal of bringing him back. It’s a false defeat, because Will isn’t dead and they do succeed in bringing him back in the end.
If they had instead wanted to end the season with Will never being found, they could’ve had a plot beat around the same point where all the characters(and us as the audience) are convinced that they had found him, or were about to, only for it to be later revealed that it wasn’t him and he was dead the whole time. That would be a false victory type midpoint.
To me, this concept gives extra proof towards CG being intentional.
Look for a second at the Midpoint of s5 by itself, which is the ending of Sorcerer. Do you guys remember the discussions people were having after s5 volume 1? I remember a whole lot of “Vecna is so cooked” type of vibes. The ending of that episode gave us both a superpowered Will and the return of Kali, which everyone assumed meant that Vecna and the MF were screwed. It also had a lot of Byler moments that had Bylers hopeful for the rest of the season. Additionally it was the point where Will comes the closest to fully accepting himself that he does in the whole series.
Hmmm… sure seems awfully victorious for an episode in the middle of the season, doesn’t it? So much hope, and then it ended… like that. Terrible, but with hints that it was that way on purpose. What else could you call Sorcerer except a “false victory?” In a way, it wasn’t just a false victory for the characters, but for us as the audience too.
It’s funny, because I remember after volume 1 thinking something like(as well as seeing others say), “Wait, but if that middle episode ended so hopefully for them, doesn’t that generally foreshadow the ending being tragic?” and then being like “nahhh why would they do that that doesn’t make any sense lol it’s probably fine.”
…Whoops.
I will say that there is one part of Sorcerer that reads as more “false defeat” than “false victory,” which is the plot point of the kids getting kidnapped. But, that moment is part of what I would argue is the one subplot that does end the season on a positive note. Yes, Holly and Derek and the other kids are possibly all still trapped in Camozotz with the rest of them by the end, but they are no longer Henry’s main target, and they are no longer separated from their friends and family. The story ends in a better place than it was in the middle, meaning that for that subplot specifically Sorcerer works as a false defeat.
But for the rest; Will’s powers/self-love arc, the crazy amounts of Byler, Kali’s rescue, all honestly could, and maybe should have been considered foreshadowing for the tragic ending just because they were all so victorious for the characters, while happening right in the middle of the season.
Making Sorcerer a false victory type Midpoint overall.
The thing I like about this evidence, is that it’s something you can’t really write off as a coincidence in the way you technically can but logically shouldn’t with most of the other evidence in season 5. You could maybe argue if you’re not thinking very hard that all the small details in the finale that point to cg were somehow done by accident but like… the basic plotline of an entire episode didn’t fall out of the sky, lmao. Like, the other things didn’t either, but this especially didn’t.
And you also can’t claim that the creators no longer understand or somehow forgot this very simple and fairly common narrative choice, because they proved themselves understanding of it not just in season 1, but literally the season before.
In season 4, the Midpoint is Dear Billy, where Max temporarily escapes from Vecna. The story leads the audience to think that Max will be fine and that her curse is broken, only for the story to end with her dying temporarily and going into a coma. It’s a very neatly written example of false victory.
Why the hell would they be perfectly capable of writing a false victory type Midpoint literally last season, and then suddenly forget in this one, but then also somehow do it successfully again anyway?
And when you think about it, don't Dear Billy and Sorcerer just feel similar in a way? At least, in the purpose they serve in their respective seasons. Hmmm. Veryyy interesting.
It’s just another way that s5 was made to be the way it is very intentionally. The entire season was written to end tragically, in the very bones of its story.
To me personally, this fact also proves LWG, because the rest of the show is not written that way. And that’s not just because of its optimistic themes and tone. In my last post I argued that the s4 finale was the Midpoint of the show as a whole. And when you look at how it progresses the narrative arcs of the characters and relationships, it just works way too well as a false defeat type Midpoint, especially for Mike’s relationships with both Will and El.
But in order for it to actually work as a false defeat, it needs a good, victorious ending that effectively proves that defeat to be… well, false.
So my question is, if they really did intend for the show to end tragically, why would the creators understand narrative conventions well enough to be able to set up the tragedy of the season’s end using its Midpoint, but then for some reason forget that very same principle when it comes to setting up the tragic ending of their story as a whole? If they really have known what their ending was going to be for so long, and did intend for it to be tragic, they easily could’ve had a false victory for the characters before s5, or at the very least not given them a possible Midpoint that is written like an obvious false defeat. The story has been set up to have a positive ending overall for a hot second. S5 doesn't disprove that, if anything it shows that they do know how to properly write and set up tragedies/potentially "cynical" endings.
I’m telling y’all, there’s a reason I’ve never doubted CG or LWG. The story has been preparing itself for it like a pregnant woman taking birthing classes for a while. Season 5 was just another step in that process. And to me, it being June now doesn't disprove that.
I was just rewatching s1ep1 and I found something very small yet very strange.
(The pics are not so high quality sorry)
Here, you can see the two coca-cola classic cans on the table behind Will.
Then we cut to Dustin, then Will, then Dustin as the kids prepare to leave.
The next shot is this where we see the New Coke can behind Will. This was strange because there is no scene break, these frames are just moments apart. There should be no reason to change cans randomly. Plus if I remember correctly, New Coke was launched in '85.
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Stranger Things fandom: You should watch this show paying attention to detail.
Cg Believers: Okay, so I watched it paying attention to every detail and analyzing everything I could, from the entire series, The First Shadow, Tales from '85, the documentary, even interviews with the cast and nerds, and even that damn radio station WSQK, and all the details indicate that the show isn't over and there will be more episodes.
Stranger Things fandom: Not like that, you stupid, delusional freak, you all just have mass psychosis, move on you dumb fuck
Season 5 should've resolved the previous plotlines, not introduced new ones
Season 5 should've focused on the actual main characters, not a bunch of new ones
Season 5 should've had the apocalyptic theme they left off season 4 in, not just covering the upside down with metal bars and call it a day
Season 5 should've had the core four be together, not being seperated again
Season 5 should've given Jane independence, not making her entirely dependant on men like she had always been and not even making her last moments about herself.
Season 5 should've developed Steve and Nancys platonic bond, not forcing Steves romantic feelings again
Season 5 should've either bought Will and Mike together or fixed Mike and Jane, not just ignoring their problems and leaving it ambigious if they were dating to queerbait us
Season 5 should've given Will a love interest, not an imaginary epilogue boyfriend
Season 5 should've focused on Mike and Nancy, not Holly
Season 5 should've created new iconic moments, not try to recreate prior seasons iconic moments (and fail)
Season 5 should've given Lucas his own arc, not just make him Max' boyfriend
Season 5 should've made Erica a main character, not sideline her give her a total of 15 minutes screentime
Season 5 should've made the painting pay off, not just abandoning it yet still putting it in the epilogue
Season 5 should've focused on being its own thing, not just nostalgiabait
Season 5 should've been for the outcasts and freaks, not the tiktok fans who probably forgot about the show until the trailer came out
I'm not big on speculating about dates, but I just rewatched some of s4, and this scene/dialogue stood out to me
I immediately thought that it could potentially be read in a meta way. I could be wrong of course, but I just find this such a fun concept. Like, I kinda hope we'll get CG confirmation/reveal of more content realeasing in august (8 months after the show ended).
The audience (minus the few cg-believers that are left) would be Joyce, whereas Hopper would be Stranger Things as a whole (and also the cast/crew talking to the fandom, since so many people were dissapointed with the finale. Especially bylers, who have kind of collectively claimed to never forgive the Duffers etc).
Also, we have Will's potentially real/original birthday in August.
And Kali/008 and her powers of illusion... Wouldn't the 8th month be the perfect time to end that illusion? To burst the reality
Idk, I might have to be careful getting my hopes up for this, cause it is lowkey making a little too much sense to me right now... Idk, I just think this is such a fun opportunity, and I lowkey hope It's an actual hint/easter egg. Please let this be a smart moment and not me clowning
Speaking of clowning, on a Taylor-tether level, it would mirror 1989 (Taylor's Version) announcement...
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so all these years they could keep their seasons and scripts under wraps but suddenly for season 5 not only did the entire epilogue leak on twitter, plus the first trailer, but now the scripts have been leaked too...and I'm supposed to believe this is a coincidence?
the fact that they want to make us believe that Vecna needed Will to find Max is so stupid because couldn't your stupid ass look inside the mind of idk Max's mother? Or even just GUESS that someone in a trance would be in a fucking hospital???? you can invade the minds of random kids in all parts of Hawkins but checking inside the minds of a few hospital workers or ppl near her is too complicated???? 😐
Most underrated Byler proof is that those two boys jump every time someone walks in on them alone like what are y’all doing that’s got you so jumpy? Just all around startled that the other people who live in the house they’re currently in are also in the house. And it’s every damn time no matter where they are because no matter what’s going on they’re constantly being interrupted eye fucking each other which on some level they must both know would look weird to another person lol
Feels like when a little kid tells you unprompted the exact thing they most certainly did not do in order to exonerate themselves lmao like boys please take a breath sit still and quit telling on yall self
“You cant even write it mike” is such an interesting line given the finale
None of the characters really knew what happened with els death, including mike (who filled in the gaps with his imagination bcs it doesnt make sense for el to have had the time or energy to pull mike into the void with the siren things, BUT it literally could not have been kali and if it WERE she would not have made her imaginary el confess her love for him??)
So regardless of what happened, that interaction with el was mikes imagination, he wrote that scenario (even if it was just his guilty conscience torturing him)
Yet he still couldnt write himself telling el that he loves her
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