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yk what while i'm on the discourse path. might as well note on my personal read of noelle and kris's relationship
some ppl portray noelle as very bitter/bothered by kris's presence so she could be alone with susie but. like. she wants them there for the festival too. she literally says that it feels easier with them there. and at the tiniest signal she gets about kris wanting to initiate any sort of interaction with her or remembering The Good Old Times, she immediately goes "oh gosh..... π₯Ί kris remembers how we used to run.... βΉοΈ"
noelle longs to get closer with susie, yes, duh, obviously, and cherishes the moments of alone time her and susie get. but she lowkey yearns to be close with kris again too. as time goes on, it feels more and more like noelle's words about things being "forced" between them are about her feeling as if kris was forced to hang out with her (one evidence i see of this is it being her idea to vote themselves as festival king and queen)
and kris clearly has a lot of reserved fondness and care for noelle, they just seem to be repressing them in the normal route and only showing anything outwards when we put her in danger in the weird route, with them going to her house to comfort her and take off the thorn, or running off with her when you abort the route, or how angry and scared they get as we progress (ex. bathroom scene in ch4, church candles in ch4, beginning of ch5)
this might've gotten lost in-between the jokes about tar and feathers somewhere, i think, that kris and noelle used to essentially be best friends, and that them freaking her out or acting chaotic might be due to the fact that. you know. noelle notably likes scary and freaky stuff, and that it would help her to not feel sad (kris and noelle's ferris wheel ride in ch5 after casting a vote for them)
so idk. i'm not gonna dictate how people should interpret stuff but it just feels like some are conflating the kriselle leg of this weird krusielle love triangle we've got going on to "they're jealous of each other because of susie", and it sort of downplays the canon complexity and faded closeness these two share imo, or reserves it to only the weird route, not allowing normal route kriselle to be abnormal about each other like they deserve to. that's just how i see it tho.
tl;dr prime krusielle activity is when all of them are kinda jealous of the other two at all times and want to be closer to them both at the same time, and none of them know how to communicate due to noelle's low assertiveness, susie's lack of experience in relationships and kris's Doomed Fucking Fate Because They Have Torture Nexus Scheduled At 10PM In The Shelter or smth, and excluding kriselle from this whole weirdness is like being mean to a puppy
If you think about it, Friend, as well as cats in general, being associated with Gaster makes perfect thematic sense, considering Gaster's associated with the devil while Toby's self insert in utdr is a dog and also, in a sense, god. Something something dog is god backwards and cats are seen as the opposite of dogs something something
I log off social media for one day and suddenly we got a massive new Friend and egg man lore drop and Gaster went from being a pirate to being Gru but with cats for minions
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Right when I thought that the "Asgore hitting Dess with his car" meme couldn't be topped, pirate Gaster is created. This might be the pinnacle of comedy I fear.
The funniest thing about my snowgrave edition kriselle playlist is that, after updating it for chapter 5's release, the latter part of it literally looks like this:
(spoiler warning for chapter 5's weird route)
"You'll never guess what happens to them by the end of this route" ahh playlist
While I've seen people compare Gaster to the Nowhere King from centaurworld before for obvious reasons, I've yet to see anyone point out the similarities between the Nowhere King and Dess or even Noelle at this point, especially after the ending of chapter 5's weird route. And it's such an obvious connection to make too, as both of them are also literally deer.
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I genuinely believe at this point that whatever Kris, Susie and Noelle have going on is meant to be Toby's commentary on heteronormativity as well as monogamy-normativity (ig there's not really a word for that....though there probably should be) and how they limit society's view of romance and love in general.
The festival in particular felt to me like a way to really drive this point home with the king and queen voting stuff. Because it really feels like this 3 way dynamic between them would've had a way better chance at thriving if the world they live in wasn't explicitly designed for couples between a man and a woman. And it feels pretty intentional that hometown is as non-inclusive as it is.
I mean the game already has a ton of explicitly gay characters and couples and it's not like the concept of polyamory hasn't been acknowledged in the game either, so it's not unreasonable for me to think that Toby's doing all this deliberately. Because Krusielle really does feel like a love triangle that could be resolved with polyamory and that none of them realize it yet because they don't live in a world where that's the norm.
All of them clearly have some feelings for each other (complicated as some of them might be), but all of them are also deeply afraid of the possibility of the other two being closer to each other than they themselves are to either of them that their jealousy is ironically the thing that drives them further away from the other two and it's a big driving force for them. The "inferno of jealousy" could very well apply to all three of them given the circumstances.
I have yet to see anyone pointing out how fitting Noelle and Kris drowning in the lake in the weird route is thematically, considering the symbolism of ice and water in this game.
While ice symbolizes preservation and stagnation, water instead represents fluidity and change, so Noelle dragging Kirs into the lake in order to break themselves free from the bounds of their world and rebel against their predetermined fate is brilliant.
Noelle has been defined by her family's ice related theme her entire life, but now that she's regaining control of her narrative (or that she at least thinks she is), she managed to melt away the ice that was keeping her chained by realizing and embracing the fluidity of her choices and the amount of agency she actually has in her life.
Ngl, even though at first I thought that this chapter didn't have enough lore and was too much gameplay and silly fun, the more I think about the reveals and confirmations we got, the more I feel like I was wrong about this opinion, because this chapter was actually kind of insane. So I compiled a long list of all the insane lore and character info we got in this chapter because someone has to (though I will probably miss some things).
(Obviously spoilers for chapter 5 ahead):
In this chapter we literally got:
β’ Dessriel confirmed canon
β’ Explanation about what the shadow crystals are
β’ Undertale Sans being from Deltarune confirmation, along with the reveal that the drawing he had in Undertale was Susie's
β’ Krusielle all have feelings for each other (though very complicated ones for the most part) confirmed
β’ Rudy probably dying
β’ Woody theory technically true
β’ Friend interaction where they directly do damage to the fun gang (even though Friend ended up being less relevant than we thought they'd be in this chapter)
β’ We now know how flowers, which are soulless living organisms, manifest in the dark world
β’ Ralsei being heavily implied to be trans
β’ Onionsan's implied death
β’ Craziest weird route yet, with an even crazier ending
β’ Undeniable confirmation that Kris can't live without the soul (though I'd argue we already knew that, but I guess that one is for the former deniers of that fact)
β’ Reveal that doing the weird route results in chapter 6 being skipped entirely and that there's a "side B" of chapter 7, whatever that means (secret second ending perhaps?)
β’ Some very interesting scene and dialogue changes in the aborted weird route and the implication that this is going to be yet another separate route of its own (kinda like the neutral route of undertale perhaps)
β’ Jevil references all around, despite him not being directly acknowledged
β’ More Gaster references (though atp that one is less unexpected)
β’ So. Much. Freedom leitmotif. Everywhere. (What does this mean?)
β’ We supposedly got the last egg from the man (which I feel has to mean something)
β’ The reveal that the Knight (or A Knight, since atp I don't even know if there's only one) opened fountains even long ago, something Ralsei wasn't aware of
β’ Asgore's plan being stopping the Knight for something that happened in the past that ruined his life (the implication being that the Knight already existed and was opening fountains when Dess disappeared, or at least that Asgore thinks they did)
β’ Mew Mew being a secret boss and paralleling Kris (also I'm pretty sure she's implied to be the mysterious shop keeper as well)
β’ Just generally many undertale connections, way more than usual at least (and it doesn't even seem to be as a joke or as a fun reference anymore....)
β’ Shelter code being the date of Undertale's launch but with a different year (which people speculate is 1997 due to Spamton mentioning it before)
β’ The devastating reveal that Susie sleeps in castletown and probably lives there entirely
The funniest thing about my snowgrave edition kriselle playlist is that, after updating it for chapter 5's release, the latter part of it literally looks like this:
(spoiler warning for chapter 5's weird route)
"You'll never guess what happens to them by the end of this route" ahh playlist
Anya is live and ready to show you everything. Watch her strip, dance, and perform exclusive shows just for you. Interact in real-time and make your fantasies come true.
β Live Streamingβ Interactive Chatβ Private Showsβ HD Qualityβ Free Actions
Free to watch β’ No registration required β’ HD streaming
What if the theory that Ralsei is Kris' horned headband is true and the reason Ralsei is probably trans is because he represents a part of Kris (like an idealized version of them or something)? What if his arc of coming to terms with his gender identity (and identity in general) is paralleling the one Kris had to go through and is still probably going through?
blakekathryn
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