#theory time

⚠️Chapter 5 Spoilers below the cut⚠️

I'm gonna preface here and say I theorize a lot but i usually express those ideas through art better than text, but I have no time to try and draw this idea. So here we go:

Go Youngeon says his black goat mask is the symbol of a devil.

Kim Soleum calls him an “ideal” Daydream employee because his traits align with their ideology (he’s selfish, does everything for personal gain, climbs over others, etc.).

His surname, Baek (백), matches the first syllable of Baekilmong, 백일몽 (“Daydream Inc.”). The hanja for 백 usually reads as “white” (白).

We all know Daydream Inc. is a pharmaceutical company. Since antiquity, the snake has symbolized pharmacy—coiled around a cup or bowl—and you still see it on storefronts, prescription bags, and professional insignia. There are also “feathered serpents,” which is interesting because, in the Jisan Village arc, Saheon had a feather pinned to his shirt.

Soleum’s test-subject name is 130666, and some fans noticed that if you sum the digits, 1+3+0+6+6+6 = 22 → 2+2 = 4. In Korea and other Asian countries, 4 is considered worse luck than 13 and is associated with death. Soleum’s birthday is also Sept 13th, and 13 → 1+3 = 4!

This is where it gets interesting: in Korean, 4 is 사 (sa), the same syllable in 백사헌 (Baek Saheon). "Sa” is also homophonous with “death.”

Around ch. 220, Soleum stumbles into a bunker of the Church of the Luminous Unknown. Braun oddly comments how there are no goats, sacrifices, or pentagrams (the usual “devil” symbols). Searching for a way out, they discover the bunker is right underneath Jisan Village—right where Saheon's from! The well there also turns out to be a sort of portal between places. Coincidence? I think not!

Saheon is a classic “white/black lotus” or “haraguro” (하라구로) character: nice and polite on the outside, but scheming (sometimes wicked, even) on the inside. Recently, they released official gsgw merch that included the employee orientation notebook with the line that said: “Act as Baekilmong-in, with strict ethics and a sense of social responsibility.” Ironic, isn’t it? Daydream couldn’t be further from ethics and responsibility. But it strangely fits Saheon’s vibe: white and “ethical” on the outside, shady on the inside, being able to easily turn on you at any time.

Saheon also pops up in almost every arc—Manor of the Blind, Mountain Lodge, Tamra, Mermaid’s Tomb (even the current one)!

And a final interesting detail: I saw tweets saying Soleum’s silver ring has a snake pattern. I don’t personally remember this, but in Dark Exploration Records, Soleum’s current ring belonged to an unidentified employee who had been in Segwang High, Tamra, and Segwang City. Could it be Baek Saheon (or his some kind of alternate self)?

I definitely saw more interesting details, but I’ll stop here before this spirals into something huge and I go down the rabbit hole with it, lol. Hope this was fun and gave you some things to think about ☺️

(have a nice day)

Something Something Doppelganger~

As I promised, I shall explain my idea of Forneus being a former vessel of the red crown!

First of, the most obvious reason, Narinder might have grown frustrated with his siblings killing off all his former vessels, so he figured, perhaps one akin to him in resemblance the most, would make them more conflicted.

It worked perfectly of course, and his siblings hesitated moreso in harming her.

The only one who didn't hesitate as much was Leshy, due to obvious reasons, sensing her primarily off on smell, he could tell that she was a different feline.

However, Narinder didn't grow fond of her solely based on her appearance alone, she was a very competent and vicious one, (before pregande that is) and managed to defeat the youngest Bishop. Although, Narinder being merely a century or few into his imprisonment, still struggled with his guilt and ordered her to spare him. (Though, Leshy definitely got mocked for being weak by his siblings later) ✌️ 🐸)

Forneus was one of the most loyal vessels. Still is, despite all that had happened. (Which is also canon, she is one of the very few NPCs aligned with him. It is specifically stated that she is the only other character who's alignment is "Worships The One Who Waits" the other one being Ratau, who himself was a vessel)

Forneus VOLUNTARILY gave up the red crown, unlike Ratau who was (technically) demoted for his insubordination. When she had her kids she realized... maybe there's more to life than just that, so she seeked penance.

Narinder was upset with her choice, but decided not to punish her. Although, he did say that she would lose all her powers and semi-immortality. She was persistent.

Forneus begrudgingly, but willingly gave up her children, once Shamura promised they'd be taken in by her god. She doesn't know all the details though, as stated in canon.

Shamura made her immortal again, and gave her ||something || to hold onto, if she ever got a chance to see her kids again, it would be returned to its rightful owner.

She did! She doesn't fully begrudge Narinder for them being kinda fucked up, but she is dissapointed. To be fair, he did go insane in there. (He does eventually apologize to her for that, as does Shamura..maybe)

_____________

And that's all I have for now! I'll need to hyperfixate more on this. :>

And that character I say is Rudy.

Art made by Soulmeshart on twitter. Super talented guy.

It probably needs some level of explanation as to why I believe it's him. More so than with other ones. And I want to delve quite deep into that. And I want to start with Delving into why I do not believe it is Dess or Carol.

For Carol it is quite simple. Timing of her coming to the Holiday household and the Church Dark World. There is just no way she would go there so quickly as we can go right to the Church after we are kicked out of the house and the Dark World was already created there. And honestly she feels like the most obvious red herring of all time.

The second one is Dess and there IS quite a few evidences pointing to her, like being left handed like the mouse in her room implies and the bat, but I feel like those may be a red herring as well. Also... we DID in fact I say heard Dess before and she is trapped. We see her talk within the game code and we hear her in Spamton Dialogue.

It is I say quite clear it is meant to be Dess. She is there in the code and we get her dialogue from one character who breaks the 4th wall more than any other. Which means if Knight was Dess then it would have to be her body being a puppet or some sort of amalgamation that has no mind of it's own and Knight itself HAS a mind, it can think, plan, input codes (which Dess herself probably would never know) and also can walk in Light World and hide there. And Susie's implication about Knight in Light World being quite powerless I feel like is very relevant as well.

And that part about Light World. I think that one is the most important because of another thing. It would genuinely make the story NOT work because Dess being gone I say is HUGE part of the game and I say it is big part of Kris's motivation as well as I feel like Kris is working with the Knight BECAUSE of Dess and we can see that with Chapter 3 world having many hidden references to her, how she is gone, her name. Kris may not show it, but Dess is always at the back of their mind much like on Noelle's and I feel like it may be guilt that drives Kris.

I will explain it later in another post. Basically I feel like Egg rooms are the key to that where they represent grief inside of Kris's mind and I think that grief is part of what happened to Dess and Kris feeling some sort of guilt and Knight being Dess would honestly make this not work at all. Because the HUGE part of this story is "Find Her". Not to mention that Kris is preventing us from even seeing who the Knight is and why would an option to ALMOST see Knight's face even be added if it's someone like Dess who we NEVER saw before. It makes no sense from writing standpoint.

Now unto the man of the hour himself. Rudy. Why I think he most likely is the Knight. First off let's start with some stuff he is made of. He is one of the few NPCs who has his own laugh and coughs which is honestly strange because no other character in those games has those unless they are VERY important to the plot much like Susie or Lancer, that already shows that there has been quite a bit of effort put into him. And one thing to note on his sprite as he laughs is that he moves his left hand during it which is weird considering that he is using his right hand to drink in Chapter 4. Could be oversight or it could be Rudy just hiding from more people his real good hand.

But those are minor things and another one I want to bring up is his confidence. He always talks about kicking somone's ass and even with Susie he seems VERY confident they can do that despite their sickness which could be Toby's little thing that we will have recontextualized later on. Also he has connection to every single code source. He regularly attends church and even in his current state is able to go there, his best friend is former chief of police and his wife is the mayor. Every single one code is pretty much in his reach. Something I think Dess Knight would NOT have and if this is Dess Knight I don't think this thing would even be capable of inputing any codes.

But those are minor things compared to my next point which is bigger which is chapter 2 and Queen. Because Queen from Chapter 2 given what we saw in chapter 4 is clearly based on Carol. Her design heavily features blue much like Carol does, she is VERY protective of Noelle and we NEVER see Queen genuinely hurt Noelle. In fact all she wants is make Noelle happy.

And I think THAT is a HUGE evidence for why Rudy could be the Knight. Because I feel like Queen is how he sees Carol. Very over protective, control freak, but also very quirky (given Carol's sword collection) and sometimes absent minded. This is not a perspective I feel like anyone who is not connected so closely with Carol could ever make Queen into. It has to be someone who knows her on a very intimate level, even more so than her children. And Rudy fits that. I think it is shown well as well with what Queen says about Noelle

To be so overprotective and yet still seeing someone as strong as well. What is more parent like than this? It fits Rudy extremely well and his personality WOULD influence Queen to see Noelle like this. Someone to be protected, but has a lot of potential as well.

Not to mention how much she HATES Berdly which is something Rudy does as well. Also he confirms in one dialogue about him that he HAS a window in his room through which he potentially could sneak out from.

And in Chapter 1 the old classroom is most likely where Rudy himself also attended alongside Alvin and Asgore so they would have emotional connection with it that would allow them to create the Dark World there as well. And in chapter 4 probably their memories of Gerson would also influence how that Dark World looked because most likely Rudy was his student and he was the person that probably made impression on everyone.

Now you may also say that "Well it couldn't be him because he is sick" and to that I say two things. First one is "Isn't that weird that THIS is the only evidence against Rudy being the knight?" and another is "Do we even know what this illness even is?"

Because both are very telling. Because without the illness Rudy becomes REALLY good candidate here. He is someone who obviously would Aura Farm (which is funnily enough how Toby called the sprite of the Knight at the top of the stairs). He is someone the gang COULD take on in Light World which is why The Knight became desperate and summoned a Titan.

And... It does give Knight a very good motive that ties them with Kris as well. Dess. A father OBVIOUSLY would do anything to get their daughter back and in this case, a father would go deep into the darkness to find her and possibly... that creates illness within them. And that would make sense. Going deep into darkness making Rudy ill. And that illness manifesting itself on their body in Dark World as well.

Because Knight is honestly REALLY withered in Dark World. They are strong, but they look like they are seriously rotting. When they roar their stomach opens and I think that could be representing Rudy's illness and with the eye in the center of their stomach some kind of tumor or something. Going so deep into Darkness, becoming ill and risking your life just for a chance of getting your Daughter back.

What is more fatherly than that? And that connects with Kris as well and what I said earlier. Dess is ALWAYS at the back of their mind. Clearly carrying some sort of trauma which gives them motivation to work with the Knight. Finding her. And I think it makes sense why Spamton showed that to Kris as something they are afraid of. Being afraid for her.

Not to mention that Rudy would also be able to hide behind closed doors in the Church. They are sound of mind to do that unlike what Dess Knight would be. And once they leave the Dark World in 3 they probably knocked out Undyne well before that and ran as fast as they could (maybe also still on some level with effect of Dark World on them) to the Shelter. After all Undyne's spears stop at some point when we chase after them.

But there is another detractor. Why the bat? And I think that is another thing. Who's to say Dess did not get her thing for bats FROM Rudy? It does make sense as he seems to be very close with their children and is interested in what they are interested in. And given he was a friend with a HUGE guy like Asgore they may have also be interested in sports too and that could have been carried from him to Dess and now they keep the bat out of sentimentality for their daughter. Not to mention also it makes FAR more sense for Kris to hide Knight's face from us if it is someone we already know and Rudy we definitely do know.

And another few things I want to add are more about potential. For instance with Prayer Kris does for RUDY. When on normal route we pray for Noelle, Kris chooses to pray for Rudy and imagine the double meaning behind it if Rudy IS the knight. That would add so much to that one piece of interaction.

And potential for chapter 5 where I say we will know about Knight's identity as I feel like chapters 3-4-5 were meant to be Knight trilogy before Nintendo made the call to Toby. The Knight being Rudy would add another layer to Chatper 5 beyond jealousy. It would add a theme of fatherhood. How far can a father go for their own family? Which could be powerful theme to tie both Rudy and Asgore, especially if the Knight ends up finally seriously hurting Kris and Asgore sees this. That would be powerful because we would then be able to witness not only Asgore in a very serious position, but also show us the Knight as a very complex character.

Who's goals are not just "I end the world LMAO" or "Am insane puppet kill me please". It is compelling narrative, a father simply doing everything in their power to find their daughter. And Rudy being the Knight would also explain how Asgore has the shard in chapter 5. Obviously he would take something that could help his case from his best friend. And most likely Carol is in on it as well and uses her resources to help Rudy as well because it is her daughter as well. And like that you get immediately more complexity for BOTH characters.

Also on final note. I just do not trust any character that is this chill and nice and likeable in a story like this. I got that right in Spiderverse and they came out rather close together.

So that is my theorizing here. The potential of Rudy being the Knight, evidence and what this could mean for the story and interesting directions this could take it in. I may be wrong, but I am quite confident in this. And even if you all do not agree I still thank you for reading all this shite.

Also may post some more things here. I tend to write fics most of all. Recently made my first one for Deltarune here

The shadow placement, very similar to the shadow play done with luka (the alien shadow looked like it was kissing Luka and ivan-alien shadow looks like it's "eating" Ivan , probably a metaphor for ... Yea)

The unbuttoned shirt very discreetly revealing sensual parts

Him missing a belt

The overall mood and expression just screams sex appeal and Ivans expression and body language too is so sultry... You don't have that in normal performance.

The text at the bottom left... what do they mean by "asset"

Ivan and Till both were assaulted (all this is assumption) Till fought back but Ivan was docile, Ivan knew what Till had just gone through and went to comfort him.

Lastly, Ivan KNOWS how to use his looks and did get into relationships (plus he "seduced" the girl interested in Till)

Also i don't know exactly how to say this, but all the card on and around ivan look like "invitatios" and make him look like merchandise