#thaw!soot

so i've already been over thaw!quackity's enneatype, but now i'm going to add a few things here that i forgot to mention before. and after that, i'll analyze what thaw!soot's type is and then compare it to quackity's :]

thaw!quackity

ok, so read the original post if you want to learn more about what this all means, but just to review, thaw!quackity is a 8w7 with a sp/sx subtype. he's part of the aggressive stance and gut/anger triad, which means he struggles the most with anger and he expresses this outwards, against people.

but there are other triads that i didn't even mention in my last post. there's harmonics, which is how we handle conflict and not having our needs met, and there's object relations, or basically, how our parental wounds manifest and affect ourselves and others.

for harmonics, quackity is an 8, which is reactive. reactive types are the most emotional under stress, and since 8s are in the anger center of intelligence, their most emotional reactions have to do with anger. reactive types very deeply need to share their emotions with other people, so they're usually very emotionally honest (though 8s still refuse to let themselves get vulnerable with this honesty). when they face conflict, their emotions get brought up in it too, in contrast to the competency harmonic, where the arguments tend to stay more objective, or the positive harmonic, where conflicts tend to be avoided at all costs, but when they do happen, emotions get suppressed in favor of maintaining peace.

and in object relations, quackity falls under the 'rejection' category. this means that he rejects one aspect of himself, and he compensates this rejection by overemphasizing something else. in the case of an 8, he rejects his need for unconditional love and nurture, and compensates by acting much tougher and more independent, as though he didn't even need anyone to show him these things anyway (even though he very much did, and still does)

there's also tritypes. this is a stack of a leading/core enneatype (what i've been talking about up until now) along with two other enneatypes in the different centers. so quackity's core would be an 8, in the body triad, but he also has an enneatype for head and heart that, when all 3 of them merge, interact in unique ways to form a tritype for him.

for thaw!quackity, i'd say that he is a 835. this is sometimes called the 'solution master'.

one of the ways that the components of these tritypes interact is through the different triads of each enneatype.

for example, the 3 and the 5 are both part of the competency harmonic, so for both of them there's an emphasis put on being objective and doing things properly. 3s demonstrate this by repressing their soft feelings so they can be more productive, usually having a very good (and questionably healthy) work ethic, and 5s do this by seeking knowledge and trying hard to be detached from things. we already talked about 8s and the reactive harmonic, which is the opposite of keeping conflicts objective, so his core 8 kind of counteracts the 3 + 5 emphasis on objectivity a bit, though he still can separate his emotions from things when he needs to, and these non-leading types can definitely still be seen in quackity's conflict resolution. we definitely can see the 3 in how he (and now q) handles his internal conflicts, with his tendency to become a workaholic to avoid his feelings and stay productive, though he's started catching himself more on this little habit of his.

also, 3 and 8 are both in the aggressive stance, while 5 is withdrawing. this means that for 3 + 8, they are oriented against others when they need to get their needs met, they have a very strong sense of self, and are very action-based in getting what they need, while the 5 needs to move away from others to preserve themselves and their energy. 5s are much more detached from the world than the other types included here, and they meet their needs solely through themselves, and have difficulties with actually taking outside action for themselves.

in object relations, 5 and 8 are both in the rejection category, so they distract themselves from the pain of not getting a need met by amplifying another. in the 5's case, they likely didn't have a good sense of belonging growing up, so they try to take on everything by themselves, and work to protect themselves (usually through accumulating knowledge), but this makes them reject the vulnerability of the human condition, and makes them unhealthily independent. 5s settle for things that are known, rather than the unpredictability of love and vulnerability. meanwhile, 8s didn't get much unconditional love or nurture as a kid, so they amplify their toughness and act invulnerable, completely rejecting any need for these things, settling for being feared or respected, instead of loved. the 3, meanwhile, is in the attachment category, because they are very concerned with being likeable to others, to the detriment of their own well-being. 3s care the most about their image, and they are willing to be and do whatever it takes to get "unconditional" love from others, though they tend to just settle for being admired if they can't have that. they focus intently on being marketable to others as a person, and they get really ashamed when they do something to bring their "value" down, even when they're just being a normal human.

you can definitely see this with how quackity is with all of his masks around everyone, how he always shifts his body language to be less threatening when slime's around because he wants him to be comfortable around him, how in his first pov chapter, he literally is having a Breakdown over a nightmare, but he's more concerned with not digging his nails into his palm bc he knows the patrons will notice and question it, and he wants them to revere him and focus more on spending their money and less on questioning his authority. even him making a point to not take off his shoes anymore now that q lives with him is an example of this... i could honestly go on and on about quackity being just Such an 8 + 3 type, it's literally so him, man.

the 5 + 8 combo makes the 3 much more power-seeking, the 3 + 5 makes the 8 more competent, and the 3 + 8 makes the 5 much more aggressive, so these 5s are more likely to actually get things done.

all 3 of these types are the ones that are arguably the Worst with emotions; 3s, even while being in the heart triad, detach themselves from their emotions to be more efficient and impressive, 5s put a much higher emphasis on logic than feelings, because feelings are too messy and unknown for them to want to deal with, and 8s think that their emotions make them weak so they tend to only let themselves feel anger. when they're all paired together, you get one very emotionally illiterate motherfucker (/affectionate), particularly when none of them are integrated, or even aware of these problems to begin with.

they're a very blunt type, and are extremely good strategists, but they also have some deep struggles with being truly vulnerable with others.

thaw!soot

ok, so we've gone over quackity's type and tritype, so now let's find soot's.

i implied last time that soot is an 8. but! i did some thinking, and actually, 4 is WAY more fitting for thaw!soot's core type (cc!wilbur saying a few years ago that eight, from sleeping at last's enneagram-themed album, being a fitting song for c!wilbur is still so true, but i really do think that 4 is a better type in thaw!wilbur's case. 8 is still very much in his tritype, but we'll get to that later...)

4, the individualist/romantic type- this type puts a massive emphasis on their self-image. they feel fundamentally different from everyone else, in both good and bad ways, and they may get overly attached to these differences of theirs, either by thinking that they don't deserve good things because they believe there's something inherently wrong or broken with them, or else by viewing other people as shallow when compared to them. 4s want to create and have beautiful things around them, and to find ways to express their intense emotions to others. they're very often very articulate and poetic people.

withdrawn stance- this type has a tendency to withdraw in order to protect their feelings and sense of value. being a withdrawing type, 4s have a tendency to focus on what happened in the past, and hold tightly onto the things that hurt them, constantly ruminating on how they could have done something differently. they often don't need other people to help them make decisions like the dependent stance does, instead making decisions in the privacy of their own hearts.

heart triad- also known as the shame or image triad, this triad is most concerned with who they're supposed to be to themselves and others. they feel intense shame when they don't measure up to that idealized image, and are very aware of their own emotions, sometimes to a painful extent. being in this triad causes 4s to feel a heavy amount of shame about how they are as a person, and they cope with this by putting more focus on their individuality and/or by living in a fantasy world where they don't have to deal with the bad parts of life, or themselves. 4s can feel extremely empty, incapable and ashamed because of this center.

4w3- these types are both in the heart triad, so they are very people-focused, and struggle with intense shame. the 3 wing makes these types of 4s much more ambitious and even more image-conscious than other 4s are. the aggressive stance of the 3 causes the healthy 4s to be more outwardly productive (though an unhealthy 4w3 can become stagnant, since unhealthy 4s often fall into major depressive episodes, and the 3 disintegrates to a 9, which is a Very unmotivated type when unhealthy).

sx/sp instinctual variant- sexual types are the types that crave stimulation and strong chemistry with other people. they need energy and deep connection in their relationships. these types often come off as more aggressive or emotionally intense, and sx 4s have no qualms being vocal about their needs, and may express their feelings of rejection, anger and frustration to mask how sad they really feel. meanwhile, self-preservation types adjust the environment around them so that they can feel more comfortable. these types need more security in their relationship, but there's less of an emphasis on it for wilbur here, since sx is the dominant one for him.

(dis)integration- like every type when under stress, 4s first take on the unhealthy aspects of their own enneatype, in this case they can become very rigid, moody, depressed, controlling, overly prideful and have more pity parties. and if their stress is particularly intense, or if it lasts for a while, they may eventually go to their disintegration point, which is 2 (kind of interesting how 2 is the integration point for an 8 and the disintegration point for a 4... ;]), so they begin to take on the unhealthy aspects of this enneatype too, becoming more clingy, manipulative, controlling, overly sensitive, codependent and overreaching, they also act out more, push and pull with people, and feel more like a martyr. integration, on the other hand, causes 4s to act more like a healthy 1, becoming more emotionally stable, objective, and principled than 4s usually are. they become much more grounded when they integrate.

tritype- 468, the 'the truth teller'

the thing that stands out the most for this tritype is that every single type that makes it up is part of the reactive harmonic, and they are in Entirely different triads everywhere else. so the big common thread between them is the fact that they are extremely emotionally expressive on all fronts. this makes them respond Immediately to anything that they perceive as a threat, regardless of whether it actually is or not. they are very skilled when faced with life-or-death situations. their arguments are always very emotionally charged, and they probably have the best instincts out of any other tritype, being very sensitive to Any potential threats out there. there is a constant sense of urgency that leads their actions, and they have very fast reaction times, which is sometimes useful, but other times, causes them to be seen as "too much" for it, particularly when the situation doesn't seem like a life-or-death one. 468s are great at finding flaws in things, and are also not ones to hesitate in voicing their concerns. (think: atol!soot Immediately picking up on a loophole in quackity's vow that could damn him)

when these types are stressed, they become even more reactive than usual, and may become more anti-social and defensive if people don't actually listen to the concerns they present. though 468s have a tendency to alienate people when they bring their concerns to light, which causes others to not want to listen to them, or even to be offended by it. these types have a very strong tendency to see things as a matter of black and white, causing them to come off as even more intense, and to see their fears as much bigger than they actually are. they have immense difficulty with self-soothing, because the dependent stance of the 6 causes them to need others to validate their fears.

these types deeply struggle with letting go of things, whether it's their deep emotions and feelings of betrayal, letting go of their total control of the situation and handing it off to somebody else, letting go of the need to convince others that they're right, or letting go of the things that they believe to be true. whatever it is, things tend to build up easily for these types, with the intense emotions from each type easily overwhelming them and putting them into fight or flight mode. it's only by letting go of their worries that they will start to actually find some peace. "if i can't have l'manberg, no one can" is a very good demonstration of this type's inability to let go of things, to the point where it ends up hurting both them and others. and atol!soot shows some good growth in this department, when he actually trusts that tubbo will be able to handle l'manberg, and so he steps down, but Doesn't head to the button room to destroy it all like he does in most of the other versions of the story, he lets it happen, and l'manberg and its people are way better off as a result of that. there's a reason why new l'manberg had so many more financial difficulties in thaw vs atol, and it has to do with wilbur actually finding peace and letting go.

since wilbur's type is led by a 4, this makes him much more emotional. expressive and argumentative than this tritype when it has different leading cores. this variation of the tritype is very often mistaken for an 8 core (and that's what happened to me with him before, go figure), since these types have massive fears of being misled and being powerless, and these fears only intensify with the core 4's extreme passion for everything. it also makes them very defensive and fiercely loyal to those they are attached to, and as a result, causes them to come off very 8-like, moreso than even this tritype with an 8 leading, since the non-leading types actually soften the 8's harsher characteristics.

and now have some object relations analysis

4- frustration. 4s developed a strategy of believing that anything outside of themselves is shallow, due to the frustration they developed for not getting protected or nurtured causing them to focus on themselves.

6- attachment. 6s don't like blindly following rules or guidance, and costantly feel the need to double-check things that seem certain to others, even their own brains can't be trusted sometimes. they usually turn to their support systems to listen to their worries, and for a sense of confidence in their concerns, though it also depends on the Kind of 6 for how much they take the opinions into account. 6s are the most motivated by fear, and are very prone to scrutinizing everything. they always need to have a backup plan, and constantly run through worst-case scenarios of everything in their heads.

8- rejection. i've already talked about this before. 8s didn't get protected when they were young, so now they act tougher, like they don't need to be protected anymore.

comparison

so, what does thaw!tntduo have in common with each other? of course they both share the 8 in their tritype, but it's a core type for quackity only. 4s and 8s do have a lot in common, though. they're both reactive so they express their emotions in very intense ways compared to the other types, and, as i mentioned a bit ago, they both share a point at 2, though 8s go there and take its healthier traits when they're relaxed, which is the exact opposite of what 4s do.

they also both have the same 2 instinctual variants, but sp is dominant for quackity, while sx is dominant for wilbur.

also, quackity is an 835, while soot is a 468. notice how their heart types, 3 and 4, and their head types, 5 and 6, only have a difference of 1? yeah, they're in each other's wings. this is a whole other thing that i'm not really going to get too much into rn, but i'd argue that the wings (because there Are actually wings and instincts for each part of the tritype) for quackity's other types are 5w6 and 3w4, and vice versa for soot.

quackity has a withdrawing head type, so when he's scared, he gets more inward about it, getting lost in his head, trying to logic his fear out without bringing others into it. his thought processes have a bigger emphasis on building off of the past. meanwhile, when wilbur's scared, he's more likely to share the fear with others, and he's more geared to what's going on in the present. wilbur also has a withdrawing heart type, so he can get stuck in the past (but moreso about his regrets rather than fear) and lost in his emotions quite often. quackity's heart type, on the other hand, is aggressive, so he's much more worried about outward identity rather than inward, and his motivation is much more future-focused. them having each others' wings does cause them to have some of each others' traits, though they still tend default to their actual type.

they also both have aggressive and withdrawn stances in their tritypes, but quackity has two aggressive stances, and they're both higher than his withdrawn stance, while soot has one of each stance, with withdrawn and dependent being higher than his aggressive type. i could Totally compare these stance combinations to their matriarchal archetypes rn but dont worry, i'll spare you guys from that, i'm pretty sure y'all get the idea by now ;p

both of their core types integrate to a dependent type, but soot's is in the competent harmonic, while quackity's is in the positive one. this causes soot to become more objective and balanced than he was before, while quackity gets more reassurance that people are good and that it's going to be okay (this also can apply to soot too, since he has an 8 in his tritype, but i think he's already Kind of there, since he has 'tommy' and 'things working okay' overlapping pretty dang closely in his brain, he just needs to be able to apply it in a more relaxed, further reaching way, like how he's started to do in atol)

but what about the relationship dynamics between type 4s and type 8s? well, they're the most emotional types in their centers, so they are both very passionate and intense, and chase excitement and feeling alive in relationships. both these types have a ton of intensity, which can work out well for them to have someone who can match their passion. but they also both don't want to be controlled by others in any way, and 4s have a tendency to dominate emotionally, which 8s may perceive as a threat, and it works the other way around too, with 8s striving to dominate socially, and 4s disliking that. confrontation has the potential to sprout easily between the two of them, with arguments quickly becoming a battle on who has the most control. often, these arguments of theirs will tend to spiral out of control and replace any real connection, since anger is also an intense emotion, just like love. things will work out a lot better between them if they learn to control their impulses and regulate their emotions more, so that they won't end up feeding this vicious cycle and burning themselves when they fan the other's flames too much so they can bask in the warmth for a bit.

i could go on, but yeah, basically, tntduo are both led a lot by their emotions, but quackity is led by his anger, while soot is led more by his shame and negative self-image. both of them are still very image-conscious, even if quackity's core isn't in the image triad like how soot's is, and both can still be very aggressive, though for quackity it's because his core's in the aggressive stance, while for soot, it's moreso because of the things that add onto his core type, like his wing, instinctual variant, and tritype.

the ruler/matriarch

^

passive shadow aggressive shadow child-devouring hag ice queen

the ruler (or matriarchal) archetype, at its purest form, is seen as a healthy mom* who is emotionally available to her kid, but also gives them enough room to grow into their own person, and not just an extension of herself. if the mother doesn't give them enough space, she becomes the shadow archetype of the child-devouring hag. and if she gives them too much space, she falls into the shadow archetype of the ice queen.

*while this archetype is a feminine archetype, and i use feminine terms here, just like with any other archetype, it can be for anyone regardless of their gender.

the matriarchal archetype isn't always a parental figure, but this is a very easily observable example, and both thaw!soot and thaw!quackity do demonstrate this, with thaw!tommy for the former (since soot basically raised him too) and thaw!slime for the latter. though, of course, i will go into more detail on the other avenues that this archetype is seen in too.

.

.

.

.

the child-devouring hag - soot

the hag archetype is the pinnacle of smothering and codependency. people with this archetype tend to constantly search for the high of something to help them through life, whether through actual substances or through people. hags are terrified of being alone with themselves. they also tend to exert a scary amount of control over their kid, and drain the kid so that they can get the kid's 'youth.' this can sometimes be the more physical youth, like what we see mother gothel from tangled do, but it can also be that of their mental youth, like the hag preventing their children from learning important things for themselves because of their overprotective and obsessive nature.

hags are the classic example of the helicopter parent trope. the parent constantly hovers around their kid, causing the kid to not experience valuable learning moments for themselves because of the parent's need to protect, also alienating them from their peers and causing the kid to grow resentful of the parent for not treating the kid like their own person. a lot of the time, by the end of the story, the hag is faced with retaliation from the child, either by the child finally telling them how they feel, getting cut off, to straight up being offed by them. though there can be darker endings where the child stays with the hag too.

and we can see all of these traits of the hag in thaw!soot. whether it's the unhealthy attachment he has to tommy and how he basically holds onto him like he's his sole lifeline (which is definitely the most prominent example we see in literally any version of wesker's wilbur), but we can also think of the obsession that he has with quackity and las nevadas, or even the actual substances that he uses. but whatever it is, revy uses things to help himself get through life and escape his thoughts, although this is never that healthy for anybody involved.

and we've already seen how scarily possessive he gets over theseus, how even when thes asks to just go on a little walk, wilbur invites himself along with him, forcing himself into every aspect of his life, and not letting him do anything on his own. soot doesn't treat thes as his own person, but as something of his, and this, i think, best exemplifies how he fits into the hag archetype.

-

the ice queen - quackity

the ice queen is someone who tries so hard to protect themselves from getting hurt that they create an environment of hostility, often inadvertently to some extent. they're numbed by their intense emotions and push people away so as to not risk getting hurt again. ice queens are overly fluent in human nature, and become a blizzard of bitterness because of their distrust of mankind. while the hag is overly smothering with the ones they care about, the ice queen is the exact opposite. ice queens push people away so they don't get the chance to see their vulnerabilities, instead of unhealthily clinging onto those people to help feel better about their vulnerabilities, like what the hag does.

thaw!quackity is literally all of this to a T. he puts on all of these different masks for people, but none of them Ever show him vulnerable. he keeps his true feelings away from others as best as he can, causing him to be both renowned and feared in las nevadas. and the few people who do make it to his heart he would fight the entire world for. because he does care so much, but he's just so scared of showing that to people that he doesn't absolutely trust (and even during the softer moments he has with his trusted people, quackity's currently always the one doing the comforting, he doesn't let his guard down long enough to warrant getting comforted himself. because he's scared of being seen as "weak' by anyone.)

but see, quackity doesn't want everyone to be so scared of him, he still wants to be treated like a person. but he doesn't know the intentions of all these people, so he instead defaults to putting on the mask of someone who people would be far too scared of to even think about crossing. he acts all scary and untouchable, and and pushes people away from seeing the more human parts of him, because humans are weaker than ram hybrids , and he doesn't want to feel weaker ever again.

so he ices his heart from both himself and the world, making him seem emotionally constipated at best, and hostile at worst. (this is an entire other tangent entirely, but note that wendigos are also often depicted as having hearts of ice.) and while his heart does thaw (lol) a bit when he's with his cared ones, he still doesn't open up about himself all that much. his blizzard of bitterness stops for his cared ones, but the coldness doesn't entirely, because that's what he's comfortable with. which, it makes sense why all the people he cares about can see the good in him. this means that they have the capacity to stay warm, even in his instinctual coldness, so they aren't uncomfortable with it and still treat him like an actual person. which, that means a lot to quackity. he hasn't been treated like a person in so long, he's so often just been seen as either a pathetic doll or a ruthless monster. so q, tommy and slime all not seeing him as either of those, but as an actually trustworthy person 1000% contributes to him deciding to not be as harsh with them as he is with others. yes, there are other factors too, but this is a common thread i've noticed with all of them.

-

i think the fact that thaw!tntduo are really just two sides of the same unhealthy coin only adds to how distinctly they build off of each other in their dynamic, and it also explains how easily the conflicts can arise between them. because they're literally the two different extremes of the same exact archetype. they have so much in common. and yet, are so incredibly different at the same time. it's all just so interesting to me.