#tag for reference

However, I got a bit of a mystery on my hands and I was wondering if you knew of any episode in Alien Force or Ultimate Alien that may have caused this.

In the middle of watching Alien Force and/or Ultimate Alien something I suddenly grew a very huge disliking for Ben 10 and I came out of it specifically hating Kevin. And heavily disliking Ben and Gwen.

Now I do remember very much loving Ben as a character so I thought this was odd. The adversion was so bad that I refused to participate in anything Ben 10 related even when Omniverse came out and my sister had to practically beg me to watch it.

I have been slowly getting through Alien Force now and haven't quite got to Ultimate Alien yet. I am much less picky than when I was 10 and younger so while I much prefer OG and Omniverse, I still do enjoy Alien Force Ben, even if the first episode of season 3 or so really tried to make me hate his guts. Issue is I still can't figure out what caused me to hate Ben 10 so much when I was younger.

Grant it, I recognize that the discouragement of my parents may have had something to do with it but I don't think it was entirely that. And since I really liked Ben I was wondering if there were any episodes where Ben is written not as well as usual and Kevin just kind of sucks that would appear really bad to a 10 year old or younger? Because so far I'm getting nothing and it's nagging at me but I think that's just because I'm older now and not so easily swayed by little problematic things characters may do sometimes.

I love these characters now and will still love them even if AF isn't quite my favorite version of Ben 10 and it's been quite a fun watch so I'm very sad I didn't get to enjoy this when I was younger.

Sorry if this is odd I'm just really trying to figure out what happened and I figured a fellow Ben lover might be able to give some insight.

wow, proof that Ben 10 is hated for no reason? what did I tell u fandom

No seriously, I thought about this for a while, but the fact that it bothers you to feel that way is a good sign, actually, because you realize there’s something not right about that. You love these characters. That doesn’t have to mean that you agree with them all the time or have to unapologetically forgive everything they do because they’re special to you like I do. But despite their flaws, you love these characters. You don’t want to believe there’s any good reason to hate them. 

Before I continue, I have to put this out there. I hold myself back from being a huge bitch about it, but this kind of thing has been happening in the fanbase for years. Not just because of one popular user or creator, but because the way that being popular in itself is enough to persuade the majority to believe what is being said is correct, accept that it is undeniably correct, and worth going around repeating. Victims of the fandom repeating the same take over and over until it gets ingrained in everyone’s brain syndrome. And then majority rules, even if it shouldn’t. 

Which is depressing, because a lot of the fanbase who does repeat these takes are clearly impressionable. Which means they’re often younger. If you’re active in internet fandoms, this is practically inescapable. 

The Ben being a bad boyfriend argument is a great example that I’ve beaten to death at this point. Do you know how many times I’ve come across people who liked him as a character, even had a crush on him, and still believed this was true? Didn’t question it? Didn’t take a look at the circumstances which painted him in a negative light undeservingly? Didn’t recognize that the series literally had him try to resolve those conflicts and make things right, which would ultimately point to meaning he isn’t nearly as bad as they say? 

To answer your specific question at the end there, I wouldn’t say Ben has ever done anything so horrible it was beyond understanding or logical explanation. This is because, in Ben 10 especially, conflicts are presented in order to be resolved. Not for chaos's sake, but in order to learn from them. Or, in order to cement the same lesson time and time again as a running theme of the show. In order to have several instances as proof of that lesson, not to make it seem as though the titular character is so stupid he forgets what he’s learned. It is much stronger proof, I think, to have several instances of a recurring behaviour pattern than only one lesson learned one time. This actually establishes consistency in characters. Whether they’re consistently problem solvers, consistently confused by customs foreign to their own, or even consistently abusive and toxic, just to name a few. 

I don’t analyze them often, but Gwen and Kevin were kind of inconsistent during those arcs, too. It’s not just Ben to some extreme degree. I can make less sense of Gwen and Kevin trashing Ben's boyfriend skills than I can of Ben’s “overconfident” attitude or him getting so serious about his responsibilities that he considers taking down threats permanently. I guess watching characters who should otherwise be able to understand being forced to villainize another character even when it doesn't make sense can cause them to come off unlikable.

There was a tonal shift during Alien Force’s season three and Ultimate Alien. I won’t deny that. That did have an impact on the characters. But that being said, I wouldn’t say it ruined the characters. 

If there is any reason for what you might have felt, besides real life factors, perhaps it was a mix of the slight changes in creative direction behind the scenes and negative fan feedback that affected your viewpoint subconsciously. Being younger and more impressionable can have that effect, even if you don’t realize it.

“I Fall Apart” - Post Malone

“No School” - Adore Delano

“What Do I Say” - Landon Tewers

“Two Coffins” - Against Me!

“Halloween” - Siouxsie and the Banshees

“White Lies” - Alice Glass

“Heartshaker” - TWICE

“Tell Me How” - Paramore

“Space Monkey” - Placebo

“Man in the Box” - Alice in Chains

But it’s always been fucked up, one of a laundry list of ways that their participation in fandom is harmful and unhealthy. And I can’t be calm about it now. Partly because my emotions are basically an open wound in general, but also because that wound is particularly raw when it comes to lies and manipulation.

That these blogs, and that conscious--ramblings post was reblogged by almost every big larrie i can think of, think it’s appropriate AT THIS TIME to make completely fucked up accusations against all antis as a whole - everyone who fucking disagrees with them and speaks out against them - that they think it’s appropriate right now to MAKE SHIT UP and spread lies to encourage hate against the people who oppose them... I know this is just a stupid fucking fandom and it’s just a stupid fucking ship and that as harmful as I think Larries are, as bad an influence as I think they are on fandom in general and the trends that will define fandom in the future, they won’t actually have that much impact. But I can’t handle seeing them do this. I can’t ignore the way they’re demonizing me to discourage their followers from considering alternative perspectives.

And I can’t express my fears for the world at large right now, but I can articulate how I feel about this. Again, I’m very glad that Larries and antis and the 1D fandom at large seem to agree about being anti-Trump. I’m glad we’re more or less united about the things that really matter. I’m not in any way trying to say that they’re like him. But their attitudes towards people who disagree, their approach to alternative perspectives, their approach towards information and evidence, these can be a huge problem. And even if they can’t do harm in this fandom context like they can do in more serious contexts, I do not like to see this behavior. The people who made and reblogged those posts without thinking about who they might be including in their awful accusations, without caring about whether they were accurate at all, they should be ashamed of themselves. They should absolutely be ashamed.

And one last fucking note before anyone tries to pretend that antis somehow do the same thing: we are pointing to specific posts, specific behaviors, specific quotes. We are talking about ideas and trends that are widespread. When we point to misogynist behavior, we’re talking about posts mocking Briana and Danielle that get hundreds of notes and come from some of the most popular bloggers. When we talk about ignoring boundaries, we are talking about an approach to the personal lives of strangers that is inherent to Larrie as a conspiracy theory. That’s why we can talk about Larries in general - not the shippers, but the conspiracy theorists. Because the things we talk about aren’t just coming from a few random assholes. They are coming from the loudest and most influential voices.

ugh yeah, I wasn’t on anti/larrie tumblr at all until just now but I believe you. Even though antis are often referring to actual things that we can cite popular, “mainstream” larrie blogs as saying, the comparisons to these super serious issues are just inappropriate and needlessly divisive. Making anything about this election related to Larrie is just so inappropriate and I have no time for it.

That said, the way these big larrie blogs CONSTANTLY post shit about antis without ever, ever, ever reading our fucking blogs - and bragging about it!! - is still outrageously shitty and fucked up and irresponsible. And for them to make some of these comparisons KNOWING they don’t actually read our blogs is horrific. If one or two blogs said shitty things, I don’t know how many notes they got, but for FUCK’S SAKE it so clearly does not justify this piece of shit post. 

“things antis have said about us post the election… just shows that they care about nothing but us” is she fucking kidding?? Is it me that’s out of touch? Am I wrong when I say these posts don’t describe any of the antis I know? Not that I could find these anti blogs that are apparently so horrible because LARRIES NEVER PROVIDE LINKS TO SUPPORT THEIR ACCUSATIONS. They just expect their followers to believe them blindly, AND THEY DO. DO PEOPLE SEE WHY THAT UPSETS ME RIGHT NOW? That post has 350 notes and it looks like almost all of them are from Larrie blogs.

“Some of them are so hateful that they disagree with us on principle” WHO? Who is this? How dare they just say “some of them” and let their followers assume this is normal and common among antis. Or bromanceshmomance saying here, “There are different level of anti. The ones who obsessively follow us and send us messages and just dedicate their blogs to larries are the ones we’re talking about” OK this is a side blog but they don’t get that, so presumably this means me. They’re explicitly making it clear that I am included in this. That’s the group they’re talking about. Not a few specific blogs, not one blogger, not whoever may have actually made these comments. No, why actually discuss the ACTUAL FUCKING PROBLEMATIC BEHAVIOR when you can be super vague and unhelpful and include EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH YOU in your condemnation.

THAT IS FUCKED UP. And conscious–ramblings includes the nasty little comment suggesting that anyone who still objects to Larries doesn’t care about anything bigger in the world? To further demonize and discredit anyone who speaks out against them so they can continue to spread their lies and hatred and pretend, as they always fucking do, that they just care about “two boys in love.” FUCK THEM.

Ugh sorry I turned this answer into another rant. Because I am upset and angry and disapprove of any antis who would try and use this election to score points about Larry or demonize Larries. And apparently that happened and I didn’t speak out against it at the time, because I was grieving and staying away from fandom. I don’t want to be in any sort of “community” with any antis who would do that, and I hope anyone who did so has reconsidered it.