why would cindy want to save Courtney for last and remove all her loved ones so that only Cindy is in her life??
oh what a good totally unprompted question anon đ buckle up bc this is gonna be long <3Â
for starters, we all know that cindy never had a normal childhood. as we learned from recent flashbacks, cindy originally hated and feared her father, and had actually run away from him along with her biological mother.
in between then and present day, cindy had somehow killed her mother (accidentally, most likely, and possibly due to her father) and been brought up to crave her father's validation above all else. however, dragon king saw cindy as nothing more than a failed experiment, and never gave her the love and attention she obviously craved. no matter what she did in an attempt to assist the isa and her father, she never received that validation she so desired and was viewed as a pawn and someone who could never do anything right.
enter courtney, who entered blue valley knowing nothing about it or its residents. cindy saw courtney as a potential friend, and first attempted to "recruit" her through her usual manipulation and aloofness. when it turned out that courtney was not the bitchy popular gymnast that cindy was expecting, at first cindy didn't know what to do with her. she went back to treating courtney like everyone else at the school, until the chemistry experiment scene in shiv part one. cindy was so caught off guard by courtney's unrelenting kindness that she found herself opening up to her, and when she wasn't immediately rejected, brushed aside, or made fun of for it, she softened up to courtney even more.
this led to cindy inviting courtney to hang out homecoming, for once actually believing that someone might want to be close to her not out of fear or desire for power but because they actually liked her. all other relationships in her life (her father, henry, jenny) had been built off of manipulation, but this wasn't the case with courtney, and cindy knew this especially well because she HAD tried that at first and it hadn't worked--courtney had approached her knowing about cindy's misdeeds but choosing to believe that cindy might still have good in her.
this was also likely the first time cindy had felt like she was anyone's first choice: henry was hung up over yolanda and dragon king was hung up over cindy's mom, and she was well aware that neither of them particularly wanted her. courtney, on the other hand, could have chosen many others, friends or potential partners, to go to the dance with, but instead she chose to hang out with cindy.
and so when courtney decided to go with cameron to the dance anyway, the betrayal must have been multiplied by 100. cindy viewed this as the ultimate rejection and confirmation of her fears, and first she reacted with coldness, then grief once she was alone, then rage for her to channel her pain into. she lashed out by attacking stargirl, intending to kill her, but upon finding out it was courtney underneath the mask, she couldn't bring herself to do it (although her fleeing the scene after hearing pat could have been viewed as her being too hurt by sir justin to finish the job, i chose to interpret it differently).
now that she had some leverage over courtney, cindy reverted back to her old view of things in which manipulation was the only way she could get what she wanted. she came to visit courtney knowing the whole time what her secret identity was, but visiting in the guise of friendship. cindy was aware that courtney knew who she was too, so the only rational reason cindy had to visit was to deliver her âthreatâ and reveal that she knew courtneyâs secret identity. that could have been revealed immediately or even just through text or some other means, so my hypothesis is that cindy wanted to spend more time with courtney as friends before she decided her course of action. cindy could have easily killed courtney there given her numerous wounds, lack of her cosmic staff, and barbaraâs blindness to what was going on, and indeed, that wouldâve been much easier and more convenient for cindy.
when cindy opens up to courtney about how she was hurt by courtneyâs cancellation of their plans (âand then cameron asked you to the dance, and you were bailing on me tooâ), itâs in a moment of vulnerability, and in a way, sheâs testing how courtney will react to it knowing what she does now about cindy. when sheâs still not met with revulsion or mocking, cindy takes that as a go-ahead, and later on the audience and courtney both get a glimpse of what she wants and is there for when she says, âi think if things were a little different, youâd be a lot more like me actually.â cindy sees both some of herself and the potential for a relationship (in whatever form it comes in) in courtney, and although she knows theyâve been placed on opposite sides of the conflict theyâre facing, she wishes they werenât. as she expresses just one line later, cindy really needs a friend right now, and she wants courtney to be that friend.
at the end of that scene, cindy reveals her knowledge of courtneyâs identity, and claims that sheâs only keeping this from her father because she doesnât want to get sidelined (which doesnât make sense--narratively, cindy has told her father everything she knows out of the hope that it will make him proud of her--and itâs much more likely that cindy just canât bear the though of courtney dying), and she tells courtney, âiâll be back. after i kill your friends.â
i believe that itâs only the buildup before cindy says this that convinces her to not turn courtney in or kill her right then and there. courtney is the only person who has been kind to her of her own volition and without any ulterior motives, and cindy still clings to that desperately despite courtneyâs âbetrayalâ and the reveal that courtney is, essentially, her enemy. compared to her reactions to henry, her âboyfriendâ who she was forced to date, dying (she literally did not care), and her father, who she tried to gain the approval of for years, also dying (she literally killed him), it just seems.... weird, right? i mean, why would cindy spare courtney when she has no qualms abt killing ppl she has much more of a relationship with? unless.... thereâs something more đ
then, much later, in 2x06, we see that repeated again. when cindy calls courtney to bait her into coming to the school, she says âi want to hurt you. not right away, though. first your friends and then your family. and after youâve watched them all suffer, then you.â strange that this is repeated right? cindyâs had so many chances to kill or hurt courtney, but she hasnât really done so seriously since their fight when she didnât know it was courtney đ¤
which leads me, finally, to my conclusion... i think that cindy repeatedly threatens to kill courtneyâs family and friends but not her, and rarely actually hurts her, because all she wants is courtney alone. in her warped mind, she believes that she can make courtney into her friend and ally and possibly more if she just manages to make sure that sheâll never have to worry about courtney turning to someone else..... which she believes she can accomplish by killing everyone else courtney is close to đ why courtney, you ask? well, like i said, because courtney was the first to show genuine kindness to her without wanting something from her!!Â
even when cindy is pulled into the shadowlands, she calls out for courtney--not one of her team members, not eclipso, but courtney, her supposed enemy.
and, as we see in the show, courtney stills rushes in to try to save her. despite everything cindy has done and all thatâs happened between them, they are tied together and so maybe, just maybe, cindy wasnât completely deluded.
maybe courtney would have forgiven her, or at least still tried to rebuild their broken relationship.
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got bored and did an analysis on the cards from episode 3!! Thank u to @talk3tiv3 for bringing this up (i have a better explanation for u now) also @canary-warriorâ and @psycho-crazy-pineapplesâ yall are responsible for this insanity!!
Disclaimer: idk much abt cards and apparently they work best when u analyze the connections between them but like i donât have that energy so im only explaining the ones in the episode and how they relate to each scene!
Three of diamonds- Professional card that emphasizes the importance of staying on your mission and not getting distracted by other opportunities. Context + meaning: The scene starts with William Zarick ignoring Jordanâs phone calls and itâs known that they are planning Project New America (their mission). Then Joey runs back into his house and shows his dad the trick he wants to close his magic act with. His dad shows him how to use distractions to make his act better. Itâs obvious that William is letting his family duties distract him from his ISA mission which is why Jordan kills him.
Three of clubs- Luck card that overrides all negatives and bad luck and it usually leads to success.
Context + meaning: In the halls, Joey uses Courtney to practice his magic act and asks her to pick a card, she picks this one. Later in the episode, we see Jordan blow the three of clubs out of Joeyâs hand and when he reaches for it, he is hit by the car. This card is the main indicator that Joey is dead and it shows how Joeyâs death is the reason Courtney continues on her journey. She explains to Pat, âa kid died today and thatâs exactly why we have to Pat.â The events of this episode, not exactly good luck, leads to bigger and better things. Courtneyâs outrage in this episode leads to her recruiting the JSA, against Patâs wishes. Therefore, Joeyâs death is the catalyst for the whole formation of the JSA.
Seven of hearts- Dream card that represents sweet dreams and imagination in the sense that one must imagine their ambitions before planning.
Context + meaning: Joeyâs magic trick doesnât go as planned so in order to protect his feelings, Courtney lies to him. He then lets her keep the seven of hearts card for good luck. Courtney is seen clutching on this card later in the episode, and before she decides to assemble the new JSA. The main significance of this card is being able to imagine the ambitions before jumping in head first to make them happen. We see Pat tell Courtney about the old JSA in their glory days. The fascination in her expressions is directly linked to the meaning of this card, she realizes the dangers but also the benefits of starting her own JSA. The episode ends with her bringing those imaginations to life when she and her staff take the former JSA items with the intention to recruit new members.
So basically, the cards were hints and easter eggs to foreshadow the events of the episode.
On the Courtney & Cindy body swap idea... do you think Cindy would like being Stargirl? Like enjoy being thrust into this role, where she kind of gets to be a leader to the new JSA, but also having to constantly do the right thing? Because despite how merciless she can be, I think thereâs a part of her that would love being a real hero, even if it annoyed her at times. I mean, I think that she would find it really frustrating not to have her superpowers anymore, but that would make her even more determined to master using the cosmic staff. I could also see her, starting off, becoming Stargirl just to annoy the real Courtney. Kind of like, âI can do you better than youâ type of competitiveness and superiority. But like you said in your reblog, I really donât think that Cindy would actually want to swap back. Yeah she would miss her body and powers, but not her life. I also think, that after a while, she would probably take Courtneyâs body shopping for a new wardrobe lol. Because Cindy & Courtneyâs style choices are very different. I would just love to see a scene where Cindy as Stargirl & Courtney as Shiv are fighting, and Cindy taunts Courtney during it by constantly calling Courtney âShivâ or âCindyâ. And then we get the reversal of their short fight in the Season 1 finale, where Cindy blasts Courtney with the cosmic staff and we hear Cindy walk over and whisper to Courtney: âBelieve me, youâll be feeling that for days even with your powers.â I would love your thoughts on this! Also, do you think when each of them suit up in each otherâs respective costumes for the first time, there would be a moment where they look in the mirror and be like: âI could get use to wearing this.â or âHow does she stand fighting in this thing?!!â
yeah like. as much as cindy likes to put other ppl down and make fun of them, that's essentially a survival mechanism for her because if she pushes everyone away, she doesn't have to worry that they'll get close and hurt her. so if she was placed in this position as leader of the jsa, i think she would really thrive off of actually being liked and not simply feared.
like psychologically??? cindy's combo of mommy and daddy issues means that she definitelyyyy has trouble trusting ppl but when she sees how the jsa are actually friends and not just coworkers, she ends up softening a little bit up to them. i think her growing closer to the other jsa members and just really enjoying people wanting to be around her would really make her reconsider villainy tbh- like we see that a big part of why she finally snapped and turned to full-fledged villainy was because courtney rejected her and she kind of gave up any last hope she might have had that she could find someone who actually liked her for who she is and not just someone who hung around with her because they were scared of her.
i think this whole experience would also influence her not wanting to switch back too because she definitely has a huge fear of rejection and not being enough, and so she'd realize how nice it was to be liked and want to continue on this charade forever because she knows that the jsa wouldn't want to be her friends as cindy. while she's in courtney's body, however, she can continue to live this idealized life that she's grown quite attached to.
YESSSS i would love another fight scene- whether it was earlier on when they were still getting the hang of each other's powers or later where they were more used to it and settled in, i'd like to see how that dynamic would play out. and would the cosmic staff obey courtney's body, or courtney's subconscious??? because i think that kind of dilemma would be really interesting to see play out as well.
them suiting up as each other would be a really nice moment too- just like the characters we traditionally see in these outfits knowing it's all wrong, and maybe trying to put their own spin on it so it's more their style?? i'd love to see it.
it's literally canon that cindy is queercoded, specifically in her interactions w courtney (meg delacy confirmed it in one of her ig lives i believe), but courtney herself as a character has not been queercoded despite what seems like numerous occasions of her having super not-straight interactions w friends (like yolanda) and foes (like cindy). sure, she's had these not-straight moments, but i feel like this is again geoff enforcing a "gay people are evil and straight people are good" narrative.Â
starcat's interactions (especially the bedroom scene) seem gay to me and many other viewers, but could still also be construed as "gal being pals." again, geoff johns is a straight man who seems like he has very little knowledge of women so i feel like when he looks at their scenes he's thinking something along the lines of, "they seem to be very good friends :)"Â
cindy and her dynamic w courtney IS super queercoded and even more obviously so, but you'll notice if you pay a LOT of attention to all of their scenes (as i, unfortunately, do) that cindy is the one who usually initiates these visibly-not-heterosexual moments where it seems incredibly obvious that thereâs an underlying tension between them that transcends just being simple rivals who hate each other (after all, theyâre two sides of the same coin, and both of them have admitted that if their situations were different, they couldâve ended up in each otherâs places) and courtney is the receiving party of these, so geoff can cling to his "courtney is a poor straight girl being terrorized by this predatory obsessive lesbian!! donât worry she doesn't reciprocate though :)"Â
cameron's intrusion into starshivâs dynamic to ask courtney out only furthers geoffâs agenda, as it gives courtney a straight relationship to affirm her heterosexuality AND comes in between cindy and courtney hanging out and courtney possibly becoming Corrupted. in other words, cameron is not really a character in his own right--he barely has a personality other than painting and being a villainâs son, after all--but an agent through which this narrative of Good All-American Heterosexual Purity versus Evil Predatory Homosexual Deviance can be accomplished.
YOLANDA GOING FROM BEING AFRAID TO JUMP OFF THE BUILDING IN EP 4 TO JUMPING OFF IT IN ORDER TO SAVE COURTNEY!!!!!
I DIDNâT EVEN NOTICE THIS ANON U LITERALLY GALAXY BRAINED HERE. wtf the character development over time and the fact that in both situations she draws her strength and bravery from courtney...... god if they arenât gonna be canon in s2 then what is the point anymore
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henry is a fuck up and he's trash for what he did. yet that is why his last words are SO fucking important. that no matter how bad someone is, no matter how bad the things someone else does, pls do not stop thinking that ppl are good. yes henry is wrong for what he did, pls don't stop believing in others because of him. that unwavering faith in humanity is so much better than cold cynicism & it's something that courtney believes & that's what makes her such a good hero.
yes!!! a message that jakeâs stressed a lot on a couple of the lives he did yesterday was that henry wasnât looking for forgiveness, he was just apologizing bc he knew what he did was bad (âheâs basically like saying, âlook, you donât have to forgive me, i just want you to know how sorry i am.ââ), and i think thatâs a really important distinction. henry didnât do good things in the past and he never managed to fully make up for that, but he still believed that people are intrinsically good and that he should work to do good, selfless things even if they cost him his life and he never even got the change to know if yolanda and the jsa had forgiven him.
that was the best hot take to end âno nuance novemberâ hahah. but on a more serious note, i completely agree with you. my mind is constantly going between starshiv or starcat (as in which do i ship more) and cameron is just...there? when i think of the show and ships, i think hournite and courtney w either yolanda or cindy, never cameron, so he just seems irrelevant. but hey maybe thatâs the point and geoff will come thru and give us the lesbians. one can dream đ
oh word!! i feel like maybe if cameron had been given more character development and scenes with and without courtney prior to him asking her out, it might have felt more organic and natural, but as it is, he appeared as some random nice guy who did art and was icicleâs son and it seemed pretty ooc both for him to ask courtney out after only interacting with her like three times for maybe a minute at most for each and for courtney to accept when she had already made plans with someone else (cindy) and again spent very little time with him previously. in general, cameron seemed to just be a convenient character to make sure the viewers were assured of courtneyâs heterosexuality (given that she chose cameron over cindy, who had enough romantic tension with her already that she needed a counterbalance in cameron) as well as, in a minor sense, cameronâs (because geoff couldâve chosen any minor male character to make courtneyâs love interest, but he chose the one character on the show whoâs queer in one of the comics--again pushing the âgood/nice people are straightâ agenda).Â
I like Barb and all, but when she told Jordan ânobody dies because ppl think the wrong thingsâ I lost SO much respect for her. Like lmao that was the dumbest thing she couldâve said. People thinking the wrong thing is the biggest non-accident or disease related cause of death in world history, Barb! Ugh I miss woke ISA
like i love barbara but like. as jordan said âyeah but they do!â i mean literally thatâs EXACTLY what causes most non-natural deaths. war? the way that people think. disease? as we can see RIGHT NOW, even that can be politicized and so many deaths can come of it bc of the way that ppl think. starvation? the fact that food (something we all need to live) costs money is a product of capitalism and in turn, the way that ppl think!! hate crimes? the. way. that. people. think.
the fact that the only person who acknowledges this (that the way people think is exactly what kills people) is jordan, the villain who is clearly being portrayed as deranged and having lost it by then only makes me feel more iffy about it. the way that people think has always killed other people, and the fact that it was almost played off as âwow look at this crazy dude who thinks that politics and the way that people think could ever kill ppl bc i as the writer/director/showrunner/whatever am not in a group that is discriminated against and thus have never been in a situation where iâve had to confront the fact that peopleâs opinions do in fact have an effect on their life and the way they interact w other ppl.â esp in this current political climate where we are finally acknowledging that black people get killed every day bc of pplâs bigotry and internalized prejudices, it feels really tone-deaf to claim that discrimination doesnât kill.Â
