#sh lilith

I agree to an extent. I think there is a way to put a spin on Lilith while using her new “feminist icon” image. Because while the legend of Lilith has been revisited by modern-thinking audiences and given a new meaning, Lilith on Shadowhunters is very much a demon. A greater demon, with personality and goals, but a demon still. I wouldn’t have changed that.

In any case, I still agree that Lilith wasn’t given the nuance she could’ve had. I don’t mind exploring how her misogynist curse (inability to conceive) destroyed her psyche after all these years. It’s an interesting concept, considering she is known as Mother of All Demons. 

But I would’ve been interested in seeing the female characters challenge Lilith’s feminist-dressed agenda. In 3A, Lilith talked a big game about not kneeling to a man, how a man ruined her, and all that jazz. Only, she didn’t mind hurting women - or sexually abusing men. I wish Clary or Izzy or Maia had called her out on that. Clary, especially, since Lilith put the Twinning Rune on her without her consent. 

Another thing that could’ve been done is contrasting Lilith with Maryse, as both are mother figures. Even bring on Jia, talk a little bit more about Jocelyn. If we’re going to explore motherhood, make it a theme of the season. Contrast the different mother figures on the show. 

Lilith literally said “Lift that sword and come to Edom with me. I need your Mark to protect me from Jonathan. Do me this one favor I'll bring your brother Abel back to life."

I believe Lilith is the strongest demon because she is the first demon in the Shadowhunters’ lore. She’s the Mother of All Demons, after all.

I don’t think it matters what they were before becoming demons or who was created first. For example, we know the Seelie Queen was there when Lilith was still human but Lilith is stronger than her now. I think we just have to accept that, when it comes to Shadowhunters, that’s how things are. 

Anonymous said: lilith didn't want to hurt magnus because she was scare by asmodeus and azazel didn't care and hurts magnus ? so in this demon contest it's 1) asmodeus 2) azazel 3) lilith i believe the mark of cain can banish every demons not only lilith.

Think feudalism, nonnies. Edom is the kingdom. Lilith is the monarch. Asmodeus is a vassal lord. So is Azazel. It’s better for Asmodeus when Lilith is not in Edom bossing him around, but he’s still subservient to her. That’s why he was happy when Lilith was on Earth: he doesn’t have to answer to anyone while she’s gone. 

For Lilith, it’s better when Asmodeus is not causing trouble. That’s why she didn’t kill his favorite child. She doesn’t fear Asmodeus, she fears the effort and destruction that a war against him would entail. Even if she is stronger than him, that doesn’t make Asmodeus weak. If she can avoid a direct conflict, she will. 

As for Azazel: he is not stronger than neither Lilith nor Asmodeus. But his goal was to take the Mortal Cup, which would make him able to control demons. If you can control demons - Asmodeus included -, you can anger them and it makes no difference. Besides, Azazel kills and hurts for sport. He doesn’t seem the type to think his actions through like Lilith does.

In any case, according to the show canon, the order of power is: Lilith > Asmodeus > Azazel. We know that because we are told so by a character known to be an exposition vessel: Magnus.

Magnus: Asmodeus isn’t just a greater demon. He’s the most powerful Prince of Hell.

(...)

Magnus: Whoever did this is definitely from Edom. But, judging by the energy signature, it’s not my father. 

Alec: That’s a good thing, right?

Magnus: I’m afraid not. This magic is very old and very evil. The demon responsible is as powerful as they come. Not like anything I’ve seen before.

Alec: So, worse than Asmodeus?

Magnus: Much worse.

302: The Powers that Be

I disagree that the Ressurection Rune makes Lilith’s plan ridiculous. Mostly because Lilith - a demon - wouldn’t be able to dwell with Angelic Runes. Why should she care about a method she can’t use? Also, Clary didn’t bring Valentine back to life. She turned him into an undead, a corpse with conscience. That’s not what Lilith wanted to do with Jonathan. 

In the show, there are a few ways to cheat death. Necromancy, Demonic Rituals, the Ressurection Rune, the Wish. Each of them has its pros and cons. But none makes the other superfluous; much like a sword doesn’t make a bow and arrow superfluous in a fight just because both weapons kill.

Mostly those. But also, I have a love and hate relationship with how the character was written. Anna Hopkins did an amazing job with what she was given, even if most of it was exposition. Sometimes it was good exposition, like when Lilith talked to Jim about her husband while she watched the newborns, or when Lilith confronted the Seelie Queen. But some was terrible. I still don’t get why Lilith would be spilling out her backstory to the Owl, but I guess the audience needed to know it and that was better than her talking to herself.

I also loathe the decision of making Lilith sexually assault Jace in order to possess him. We don’t see the Owl kissing his victims, so why would Lilith? Because she’s a female demon? That’s so fucked up and it made me drop my interest in the character immediately.

Though there were also really cool parts. Lilith’s “love” for Jonathan is compelling. Her calm and collected demeanor is very menacing. I adored the whole arc of her going to Magnus’s and tricking him into giving her the anti-love potion. When she simply showed up at his door and easily manipulated Magnus into letting her in? I got serious chills. 

I guess my biggest problem with Lilith is that it took too long for the heroes to find out she was there. That meant dragging out her scenes being Evil™. Whenever she was in a scene with a hero (not in her possession) she was absolutely great. Whenever it was just her or just her and the Owl, she was boring or disgusting in a bad way.

Would Lilith be a good stepmother, though? She was a shitty mother to Jonathan and she literally gave her blood to get him. I don’t want to know what she’d do to Magnus.

What I can see happening is Magnus and Lilith joining forces in a “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” sort of way. And that would honestly be a shot on the foot from Magnus’ part. Lilith is worse than Asmodeus or, at least, that is what the show wants us to believe.