#rw fp

What is important to note is that in vanilla, FP's creation wasn't necessarily "widely hated on" by most of the people. The discourse surrounding his creation was mainly caused by the shaded citadel down there, they didn't really like a big huge box casting the citadel in shadows.

Relevant pearl reading (white pearl) : "We, of the Five-hundred-and-ninety-second High Convocation of the True Anointed Citadel, do hereby demand, with full force of Law and Religious doctrine, an Immediate end to construction of the Apostate Superstructure Abomination. To place shadow upon the Divine Body of the True Anointed Citadel is outrageous blasphemy and cannot be tolerated, no matter the circumstances..." Clearly this was ignored.

"Clearly this was ignored" it seems that the citadel was a minority, FP's own creators had no problem discarding them to build him at least. They didn't all call him an abomination, it was an insult from specific people.

I also find the exterior pearl relevant :

This one has plain text. Let me cut the lengthy introductions...

"...we will not consider the Current Situation acceptable. Although our community is Blessed with an ever shrinking Population, and we can Almost Glimpse that Glorious moment when the last of us has joined our most Admired peers, we must still (at All Times!) maintain Good Relations with our Iterator.

The Moral Argument: Five Pebbles is our Creation, and we have Parental Obligations towards him. As an Iterator, he is also a Gift of Charity from Us to The World (unable to reach Enlightenment by itself - being composed mostly of Rock, Gas, dull witted Bugs and Microbes - and towards which We thus have Obligations).

The Practical Argument: Despite You being family, I must Beg Forgiveness for the Blunt Vulgarity - but We are (for as long as we Remain) Dependent on Five Pebbles for Water, Nectar, Energy, Void Fluid and All other Vital Resources. By Now, living on the surface is Laughable. We are Across the River and have Kicked out the Boat.

I therefor ask you to Do Anything in your Might to stop the House(We both know which House) from Further Obstruction! They have less than forty members on the Council, but still Tilt the spiritual Discourse with Our Iterator in a direction that most obviously Displeases him, and is hardly High Held by anyone in the Community either! We can not Risk this!"

And then there are polite farewells. None of us really miss the times when their cities were populated. Imagine having skin parasites that also ask for advice and have opinions...

I'm sorry, that was disrespectful. They were our parents after all.

This one is interesting because it's mitigated.

On one side, there is a faction that does antagonise FP (unclear if related or not to the citadel), they seem to be a minority but still brings a spiritual discourse with FP in a way that "obviosuly seems to displease him". On the other side, the pearl is about someone asking them to cut it out because this is really not in their best interest to alienate the guy they live on + brings up the parental obligation + says this attitude is not "held high by anyone in the community".

Moon also says that none of them really miss these guys so it's possible he was not the only one with discourse issues. The wording of "we have parental obligation toward him" seems cold but it's also possible that it's simply a very matter of fact way of saying that they can't just abuse their creation.

This is not to say he was best buddy with his creators and citizen, tbh there is little to work on there. He seems to share the same frustration as most iterator about them (the dialogue between him and SRS at least implies that his feelings are not really unique, even if his projects later weren't popular. And then Moon says that no iterator really miss the day they were populated.)

But globally it seems like a nuanced situation.

Now as far as his relationship with other iterators goes... Tbh the closest you get to anyone being mean to him is UI sharing pictures of his rot "probably to be mean". Tbh it's hard to judge UI since this, with a pearl name cameo, is all we get about them. Not even sure if it was anything personal or not.

And well, second closest is when his group are discussing "some eratic pulse guy who has a strange behavior..." but they don't know it's him.

I was talking pre moon accident, but even after this we don't have much to work on because the only records we have is the Hunter pearl (in which NSH talks in joking ways) and Moon herself, and she does not seem inclined to insult him despite everything even if she is clearly bitter about it (i mean i know that Moon is not the kind to insult easily, but she did insult their parents once). She even speaks fondly about him sometimes.

Only thing she brings up about her feeling about him initialy being built next to her is the one shoreline pearl record (which says that water was deemed enough to build a second iterator) in which she says "not a good idea in insight". Which, she is sitting in her own corpse because of this so this is very fair lol. She is not even being like "he should never have been built" she is commenting on how they should have been more careful about his placement.

I mention it because the whole "big sister" emphasis is a DP thing, in vanilla it's a group chat nickname, she is not specifically HIS big sis and not his admin. They both refer to each others as "friend" and "neighbour".

I also guess that the Suns-Wind dialogue in the subterranean pearl counts as "post problems", and tbh it seems that wind and suns are mostly worried about both pebbles and moon.

From what i am seeing, in vanilla he had some issues but he was not specifically an ultimate black sheep.

Now for downpour...

Well it gets a bit funny because DP did change the way they are written a few times.

Main changes in pebble's context there are that he was created to make more place for Moon's citizen (in vanilla he was just created there because the people judged there was enough water) and that she is his administrator and has more power over him.

In the spearmaster campaign it is said that it caused him to feel like he was born in the shadow of his big sis, didn't want to be told what to do and seeked independance.

In those broadcast NSH basically says he is an immature and rude teen.

I've expressed my feelings about the DP characterisation a few times, i think it brings interesting themes but i am very much not a fan of how it's done and the general infantilisation. It feel overdone to throw every morally grey character under the "basically just an angry kid" bus idk.

But right now it's not about my feelings.

Of course in this campaign NSH is not very charitable to FP which, is not really unfair in this situation.

I was mainly talking about the pre-moon accident times though, and in DP there is the notion that he feels the need to prove himself (some of this attitude can be seen in the arti campaign too in pearl reading) and was globaly defiant. It's not too hard to imagine it would put him at odds with each others. NSH also says he never liked FP's attitude toward Moon, which probably implies some tension in the group.

interestingly though, most we get about this in game is NSH and SRS talking about it, other iterators don't have much to say about him beside "hey this guy whose rot was leaked, this was Moon's junior right?"

As for how the people felt about him...

A point of interest is his own record of the exterior pearl, in which he mentions "It is no secret that my construction was a point of great controversy. Many council members worked vehemently to prevent me from ever coming into being. Their stance was so unfaltering that even after construction was complete, a number of Houses still denied transfer and remained behind in her city out of protest.

This rift caused frequent feuds and tensions amongst the community. Those of the opposition would never yield to those who supported the so called "Apostate Superstructure Abomination". But to say I found their actions displeasing? Not quite.

While certainly more violent and disruptive, they at least provided me interesting cognitive challenges to use my time on. As opposed to the endless rituals and pleasantries of the monks of my own Houses, which I found to be the most wearisome of all."

It seems that Downpour added that "many council members" (of Moon's city) hated his birth. He mentions the "abomination" nickname in this dialogue, so would it mean that in DP's version Moon's council and the citadel are the same orgnanism? It's interesting because on one side, it could mean that "oh it was just these guys again" but also he does say that "his creation was a great point of controversy", which would be different from the citadel emiting an objection that was more or less ignored. Interestingly in DP he is like "actually i wasn't bothered by this". And also mentions that his own Monk were more pleasant (even if he thinks it's boring)

Interestingly though, he also does say that his biggest haters stayed behind instead of living on him, so it would still be an extrapolation to say that ALL of his citizen hated his guts. I feel like it also could be nuanced, Moon's council is not "everyone" either and this pearl originally implies they don't have many seats.

So to summarize:

In vanilla it seems that.. there is no indication he was particularly disliked to begin with (by most of his citizen and his group i mean, the citadel hated his guts) He had some troubles but it seems not the kind of uncommon troubles, and whatever records we get of a discourse about it is balanced by either being ignored or someone asking "please can you not displease our iterator?" and other iterators don't have much in particular to say about him.

Downpour is diving into this idea of him being particularly contrarian, seen as a rude kid and also he was built as an auxiliary structure and added more on "factions hating his ass", but even so it seems it was not an absolute thing and a good part of his citizen didn't participate in this. DP also creates a bigger divide in his local group, with NSH who didn't see him under a good eye even before.

In both version though, despite their difference, it seems like it was a nuanced thing.

To be clear, my stance on DP is that i totally buy the whole "it's an alternate universe" thing. I don't like everything (like some character writting in some cases) but i like other things and i certainly don't ignore it or think it's full of bad idea, though i do not consider it "default canon" since vanilla has other vibes sometimes, its not just a sequel. They are truly different, to me. An alternate canon no less valid, but well, alternate. They are different to me which is why i personaly think it's interesting to analyse them separatedly when talking about the characters (unless you're talking from one particular standpoint i guess).