#quest design

What are some (simple) things in a quest / dungeon you'd actually consider downloading?

after I 100% Skyrim, I'm going to make some quest mods for practicing level design. Especially interested in your little wishlists or story ideas, don't hold back!

I can't reblog a really great post I just saw for some reason (tumblrrrr *shakes my fist*), but hmmmm yeah not only do I completely agree, but I think I might expand on why I feel so much annoyance towards TotK's quest design philosophy at some point, because it does extend past the fundamentally broken setup of trying to punch a pseudo-mystery game on top of BotW's bones, where the core objective was always explicit and centered and stapled the entire world together; or the convoluted and inefficient way it tells its story through the Tears, the somehow single linear exploration-driven quest in the entire game.

Basically: I'm talking about the pointless back-and-forths. There were a lot of them, a lot that acted against the open world philosophy, and almost none of them ever recontextualized the environment through neither gameplay abilities nor worldbuilding nor character work.

I'll take two examples: the initial run to Hyrule Castle (before you get your paraglider), and then the billion back-and-forths in the Zora questline.

I think?? the goal of that initial quest to Hyrule Castle is to familiarize you with the landmark, introduce the notion that weapons rot, tell you about the gloom pits, and also tell you that Zelda sightings are a thing? But to force any of these ideas on you before giving you a paraglider is, in my opinion, pretty unnecessary. I think the reason it happens in that order is to prevent Link from simply pummeling down to the gloom pit under Hyrule Castle and fight Ganondorf immediately while still introducing ideas surrounding the location; but genuinely, the Zelda sighting makes the next events even more confusing? Why wouldn't you focus all your priorities in reaching the castle if you just saw her there? Why lose time investigating anything else? Genuinely: what is stopping you from getting your paraglider and immediately getting yourself back there, plunging into the depths to try and get to the literal bottom of this? (beyond player literacy assuming this is where the final boss would be, and so not to immediately spoil yourself --which, in an open world game, you should never be able to spoil yourself by engaging with the mechanics normally, and if you can that's a genuine failure of design)

I think, personally, that you should not have been pointed to go there at all. That anything it brings to the table, you could have learned more organically by investigating yourself, or by exploring in that direction on your own accord --or, maybe you think Zelda is up there in the castle, and then the region objectives become explicitely about helping you reaching that castle (maybe by building up troops to help you in a big assault, or through the Sages granting you abilities to move past level-design oriented hurdles in your way, etc). Either way: no need to actually make you walk the distance and back, because the tediousness doesn't teach you anything you haven't already learned about traversal in the (extremely long, btw, needlessly so I would say) tutorial area.

But to take another example, I'll nitpick at a very specific moment in the Zora Questline, that is honestly full of these back-and-forth paddings that recontextualize absolutely nothing and teach you nothing you didn't already know. The most egregious example, in my opinion, is the moment where you are trying to find the king, and you have to learn by listening in to the zora children who do not let you listening in.

So okay. I think Zelda is great when it does whimsy, and children doing children things guiding you is a staple of the series, and a great one at that. But here? It does not work for me on any level. Any tension that could arise from the situation flattens because nobody seems to care enough about their king disappearing in the middle of a major ecological crisis, except for children who are conveniently dumb enough not to graps the severity of the situation, but not stressed out enough that it could be construed as a way for them to cope about it and make anything feel more serious or pressing. It feels like a completely arbitrary blocker that isn't informed by the state of the world, doesn't do anything interesting gameplay-wise with this idea, doesn't build up the mood, and genuinely feels like busywork for its own sake.

This is especially tragic when the inherent concept of "the zora king has been wounded by what most zoras would believe to be Zelda and is hiding from his own people so the two factions do not go to war over it" has such tension and interest and spark that the game absolutely refuse to explore --instead having you collect carved stones who do not tell you anything new, splatter water in a floating island, thrud through mud who feel more like an inconvenience than a threat or, hey, listen to children playing about their missing king less than a couple of years after being freed from Calamity Ganon's menace. It feels like level designers/system designers having vague technical systems that are hard-coded in the game now, and we need to put them to use even if it's not that interesting, not that fun or not that compelling. It's the sort of attitude that a lot of western RPGs get eviscerated for; but here, for some reason, it's just a case of "gameplay before story", instead of, quite simply, a case of poorly thought-out gameplay.

Not every quest in the game is like this! I think the tone worked much better in the sidequests overall, that are self-contained and disconnected from the extremely messy main storyline, and so can tell a compelling little tale from start to finish without the budget to make you waddle in a puddle of nothing for hours at a time. It's the only place where you actually get character arcs that are allowed to feel anything that isn't a variation on "very determined" or "curious about the zonai/ruins", and where you get to feel life as it tries to blossom back into a new tomorrow for Hyrule.

But if I'm this harsh about the main storyline, it really is because I find it hard to accept that we do not criticize a structure that is at times so half-assed that you can almost taste employees' burnout seeping through the cracks --the lack of thematic ambition and self-reflection and ingeniosity outside of system design and, arguably at times, level design-- simply because it's Hyrule and we're happy to be there.

There's something in the industry that is called the "wow effect", which is their way to say "cool" without saying "cool". It's basically the money shots, but for games: it's what makes you go "ohhhh" when you play. And it's great! The ascension to the top of the Ark was one of them --breathtaking, just an absolute high point of systems working together to weave an epic tale. You plummeting from the skies to the absolute depths of hell is another one; most of the dungeons rely on that factor to keep your attention; the entire Zelda is a dragon storyline is nothing but "wow effect" (and yeah, the moment where you do remove the Master Sword did give me shivers, I'll admit to this willingly) and so is Ganondorf's presence and presentation in the game --he's here to be cool, non-specifically mean, hateable in a non-threatening way and to give us a good sexy time, do not think about it too hard. What bothers me is that TotK's world has basically nothing to offer but "wow effect"; that if you bother to dig at anything it presents you for more than a second, everything crumbles into incoherence --not only in story, but in mood, in themes, in identity. This is a wonderfully fun game with absolutely nothing to say, relying on the cultural osmosis and aura of excellency surrounding Zelda to pass itself off as meatier than it really is. This is what I say when I criticize it as self-referential to a fault; half of the story makes no sense if this is your first Zelda game, and what little of that world there is tends to be deeply unconcerned and uncurious about itself.

And no, Breath of the Wild wasn't like this. Breath of the Wild was deeply curious about itself; the entire game was built off curiosity and discovery, experimentation and challenge (and I say this while fully admitting I had more fun with the loop of TotK, which I found more forgiving overall). The traversal in Tears of the Kingdom is centered around: how do I skip those large expanses of land in the most efficient and fun way possible. How do I automate these fights. How do I find resources to automate both traversal and fights better. It's a game that asks questions (who are the zonais, who is Rauru and what is his deal, what is the Imprisoning War about, where is Zelda), and then kind of doesn't really care about the answers (yeah the zonais are like... guys, they did a cool kingdom, Rauru used to run it, the Imprisoning War is literally whatever all you have to care about is who to feel sad for and who to kill about it and you don't get a choice and certainly cannot feel any ambiguous feelings about any of that, and Zelda is a dragon but we will never expand on how it felt for her to make such a drastic and violent choice and also nobody cares that's a plot point you could *remove* from the game without changing the golden path at all).

NPC Escort design has evolved since players had to escort the Defias Traitor to Sentinel Hill way back in 2004. We usually break it down based on the goal of the quest.

If the goal is to protect the escorted NPC, then no real changes are necessary - the player is supposed to stay with the NPC and deal with the threats that appear along the way. If the quest is a "walk and talk" where the NPC provides exposition along a path to show the player certain locations or the NPC follows the player to certain locations, we will often boost the NPC to match the player's speed if the player gets too far ahead. This can cause some strange animation/visual artifacting depending on how fast the player is moving (just how do we expect this NPC to catch up to the player realistically?), so games that place priority into maintaining visual fidelity (e.g. Red Dead Redemption) will have more difficulty with this than games that are ok with players seeing some animation silliness (e.g. World of Warcraft).

The difference between these types of quests is a bigger deal than most players think - the fundamental gameplay is different, so the considerations must also be different. Players tend to lump them together in the same "escort quest" category, but they're quite different at their core. Protecting an NPC from external threats is very different from having NPCs follow the player or get to certain locations and provide exposition along the way.

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During the fifth anniversary of The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt’s launch, Polygon released an opinion piece in summation of the game’s impact. There was an exhaustive discussion of the Witcher franchise, and how the production for Witcher 3 was made to take step significantly beyond its precedents. In my experience with games that have an open world, the player is expected to spend hours upon hours exploring, levelling up, and doing quests pertinent to the story while ensuring that it involves enough mundanity, and despite being one of the earliest of its kind in the community, Witcher 3 managed to check off all boxes and perhaps even exceed them. The writer collected insights from a quest designer from CD Projekt Red which thoroughly helped in further elaborating on the game’s main objectives from an insider’s perspective. Whilst the game poses as a great challenge to improve, understandably so, as it comes as a rule with most media that the third in succession is either redundancy or completely detached from its original objective. As such, it was relieving to find out that the third of this series has completely advanced in user immersion without risking its remarkable aspects from its previous narrative formats in Witcher 1 and 2. Reading the article, I found myself agreeing with the observations used to describe the game experience such as its ability to make the player feel involved in such a way that they are in a natural environment, where everything is alive and constantly at work. These details made it seem as though the world was not formulated in code and softwares, rather, a mirror of reality where the results can be preceded by small, seemingly irrelevant actions we forget to take into account. 

I’ve been playing Pillars of Eternity recently, and just like the first time I picked up the game it has failed to enchant me, but nevertheless it is a decent game, not gonna hate on it.

One thing it advertises for is that choices matter, you’re bound to chose sides over time, and will have an impact. And the game, being from Obsidian, after all, tries hard to make good on that promise.

But having completed one of the Act II quests I can see that in adding replay value some of the quest designers have fallen into a trap, and I think it’s an avoidable one... (From here on, spoilers for Pillars of Eternity)

Quests for the Quest have been quested!

Congratulations to @custommagiccardsinsta and @ceta-maelstrom!

@custommagiccardsinsta - Necromantic Ambitions is just one of those treats where you look at a custom card and you know - you know - that there’s wonderful design potential there. This isn’t perfectly designed templating by any means, I’ll say that much, but it’s fantastic in the grokability and intrigue it creates. The card itself is pretty fun as heck, kitchen-table awesomeness and potentially fantastic in a build. As for where my concerns are: Is the sacrifice an activated ability, or rather, should it be as long as you have the missions completed? Or should it be an instant reward, which would be easier, and if so, is there better wording to allow responses? Note this mechanic, and go nuts with it.

@ceta-maelstrom - I’m a sucker for Alara, and Quest for the Nexus happens to be a card that both touches on that AND is perfectly at home in the set. It could never replace the craziness of Maelstrom Nexus, but hell, it’s just good. The first wording is a little clunky, but again, grokable, and I don’t really know how else you’d word it. Everything that Alara would want to do is on this card. Five-color players would love it. It takes a decent amount of time to work up, but that’s okay. In general, great, fun, and flavorful <3

This was difficult. Again, there were...a LOT of good entries this week, seriously. You’ll see what I mean in the commentary. Lots of commendation.

The Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion came out nearly 13 years ago and i’m not going to sit here and write about how people unfairly point out its flaws, it’s got plenty, some that were obvious at the time and some that have been shown with age, i’m here just to talk about some of the smaller things that endure about it to this day.  

It’s well known that the writing and character design in Elder Scrolls IV is uh....interesting, with weird looking characters spouting off bizarre out of context lines at best, and unintentionally threatening mundane statements at worst.  But it’s these same wacky ass lines that lend the game a massive amount of charm that isn’t present in further games in the franchise.  One of my all time favorite quests in the game is stumbling upon a town where everyone's turned invisible from the botched experiment of a nearby wizard, and the only thing the towns weirdos seem to be worried about is that people may mistake their village as haunted if it keeps up.

On the other hand, if you were just to be talking about the games visuals i’d still argue the game is still a hell of a sight, despite it’s obvious age.  For 2006, the sheer level of draw distance is extremely impressive and does so much more than it could have to really sell this game as a huge world you’re free to explore.  While it’s obvious that trees and other defining features vanish at a far distance, for the time it was a big deal.  Also of note is the games overwhelming use of bright colors, something that quickly fell out of favor in the 7th gen consoles.  It’s downright weird at this point to see a game that embraces bright greens of trees or a seemingly always vibrantly blue sky in that era of consoles, where dull browns and grays often took the lead (even if the Elder Scrolls follow up of Skyrim!)