#predatory hypnosis

Welcome! I'm going to be putting together a series of posts detailing predatory files--what makes them predatory, and what to watch for. It's my hope that this will spread awareness of the sorts of suggestions that are red flags from the get go as well as guiding people away from dangerous people in the community.

For this first installment, I'll be talking about hypdom's "intro" file Sigil. This isn't the worst of his files by a long shot (we'll get to those...), but it still exhibits some red flags, and it's important to look at the beginning to understand how files build on each other and how seemingly innocuous suggestions can build into much more sinister ones.

If you're unfamiliar with hypdom, he's a predatory hypnotist who's been around for a long, long time in the hypno community largely keeping quiet and doing his best to appear safe. I've personally worked with some of his victims, though, and can say he's absolutely not someone you want to be involved with. He ignores boundaries, does not seek consent, negotiates in trance, breaks down safeties, victim blames, instills fear and anxiety to protect himself and his suggestions, and has had significantly negative impacts on the lives of people he's played with.

(And, honestly, his files aren't even particularly good! If you're going to get addicted to something, there's better out there. There's a reason Sigil has a "this is the best file you've ever watched" suggestion in it! Good files stand on their own.)

Unfortunately in cases like this it's frequently one person's word against another's, so I hope by discussing his files it'll be clear he's someone to avoid.

Let's get to it...

Red Flags

Always Listen to the End

"And you're always going to listen from the beginning to the end of any of my files."

This is excessively bad. It's just one line, and it might be easy to miss or not think anything of, but this is a keystone of the foundation. It's attempting to embed the suggestion in the listener's mind that regardless of how they feel of a file they'll always listen all the way through. There's absolutely no reason for this suggestion other than to set the listener up for shady suggestions in later files as well as ensuring if they start to listen they'll continue listening.

Make no mistake. This is bad and any file setting something like this up should absolutely without reservation be considered predatory.

Focuses on Weakening Resistance

"See how resisting just makes you weaker" "The more you resist, the faster you drop" "Completely unable to resist the sound of my voice" "It's so hard to keep resisting because it just makes your mind weaker"

Resistance inductions are a thing, and this isn't necessarily uncommon, but it's still a red flag to immediately set in at weakening resistances. This is very much phase 1 of predatory hypnosis, introducing resistance play as part of trance and slowly wearing down resistances--particularly in a file set to be listened to repeatedly. We'll see plenty of this in later files also.

Directing to Contact the Creator

"You're going to feel like this is the best file you've ever watched, and you're going to want to tell me so."

Any file that directs you to contact them should immediately be considered shady and predatorial, but this file takes it one step further adding a suggestion that this is "the best file you've ever watched." The direction is a little insidious also, as it's not "You want to contact me" but "You want to tell me this is the best file you've ever watched," reframing the contact to make it a bit more likely you'll reach out.

Addiction

"Feel how good it feels just to listen to my voice again and again." "Desperate for (my voice). Addicted to it." "You listen to me. You need it. You want it. You want it." "Loving my hypnosis. Needing my hypnosis." "You need this, don't you." "Every time you see one of (my symbols), you're going to want to come back here and listen to this again." "Feels so good to drop for me over and over, again and again." "You love to listen to me, don't you." "You're going to find that you want to come back here very soon. Maybe right now." "You're going to watch this file again, aren't you. Maybe right now."

The one thing that's actually advertised on these files, though the "might" is a bit light considering how heavily it pushes addiction both to this file and his hypnosis in general.

This sort of thing might seem fun at a glance if you're into mind control, cnc, and the like, but it can be extremely dangerous. Especially with a hypnotist and set of files like this where you start in, things seem fine and safe, and then eventually they're not, but the addiction's set in and every time you try to pull away you find yourself coming right back. This'll become more clear as the files progress also.

Another thing to note here is the final suggestion. "You're going to watch this again...maybe right now." Keep in mind this file's weakening resistance and increasing obedience and the final suggestion does not offer an out. No "If you want to" or "If you feel like it". Just "Maybe right now." Which might seem like an out, but it's actually a gentle push back in. (And don't worry! This push will become much less gentle as we go further into his files.) This is outright unsafe and unethical, leaving a listener to loop an unknown number of times.

Final Words

Hopefully this gives some insight into things to watch out for in files. As mentioned above, a very important thing to remember is that frequently files will build on each other with the "starter" file laying a groundwork and each file after progressively layering more and more suggestions. It's not just the first file that matters but every file the hypnotist has created, particularly when the files are building addiction and a need to listen.

Make sure if you're going to listen to files that (if you can safely) you skip the induction and deepener and check the suggestions in the middle to see what you're getting into. If you can't, ask someone you trust who's familiar with hypnotic suggestions to check them out for you. Going in blind may seem fun and sexy, but it's a surefire way to end up in a bad situation.

In one of your posts about predators and which predators to avoid, you mention the hypno professor. There are a few people who go by that name! Which one to block?

Thank you for your time!

You're not disturbing me at all. Thank you for the question!

My apologies, I got the name wrong. "Professor Mesmer" is the person to watch out for. I'll fix my post. A very candid video about Professor Mesmer, the B--mbi files, and what's it's like to be groomed and slowly boiled by a predatory hypnotist can be found here (YouTube link). TW: trauma, sex slave, cult, drug use, b--mbi file discussion.

Something I’ve seen far more than I’d like in the hypno community is unethical hypnotists. I’m not speaking of the people who send spirals or scripts or attempt to use triggers on people. I’m talking about people who embed themselves within the community, look and act like someone who’s safe to play with, maybe create free files to use, but are in fact slow-moving, methodical, abusive personalities. These people are extremely dangerous, and it’s not hard to get mixed up with them because they seem fine on the surface. They have lots of subs who’ve worked with them. They make files. The community knows them. Etc., etc. Nimja, Neural Nets and Pretty Patterns (now Deep Dream State and Neuroplex), and Hypdom (who runs the safe hypnosis blog) are all excellent examples of abusive hypnotists who’ve done a lot of damage within the community.

In an attempt to combat this, I’ve put together a list of potential red flags in play that people have spoken to me of or I’ve personally seen used in abusive situations. Things to watch out for and stop if you see them. This is by no means comprehensive, and some of these can be perfectly fine in safe play with a person who has your best interests at heart. This exists only to spread awareness.

Many of these are also general D/s or relationship red flags, but they bear equal weight in hypno play.

Remember when playing that you are the one in control and can always say no. If you feel like you can’t, consider that a red flag. If they don’t listen. Red flag. More than anything, before playing be sure you have safeties. They’re not the be-all end-all of play, but they provide a solid buffer. If you’ve never played before, research and talk to people. Don’t just listen to files or fall in with the first dom(me) that contacts you. And vet your hypnotists. No matter how nice someone is. No matter how big a name they are. No matter who they are. No matter who may have recommended them or said they’re safe. Don't trance with them if they make you feel uncomfortable. Don't trance with them if they exhibit *any* red flags. Even if intense/cnc play is what you enjoy, make sure it is with someone safe who has your best intentions at heart, and continue to evaluate that throughout your time with them.

Making themselves your sole source of information and discouraging seeking outside information

This is a prime way to groom you and feed you misinformation, downplaying risks or outright not informing you of what's being done to you. One of the easiest things you can do to protect yourself is to educate yourself. Do your research ahead of time. Know what you’re getting yourself into. This may take time and effort, but it’s a very important step to protecting yourself. If they say "Oh, don't worry about that." Or "That's perfectly normal. Everyone does that." RESEARCH. Do not simply take them at their word. Especially if it sets off any alarm bells, no matter how small.

Isolating you from others

This’s a pretty common abusive tactic but bears mentioning here also. Any hypnotists trying to prevent you from talking to other hypnotists or members of the hypno community should immediately be suspect. Things like “other hypnotists are dangerous; you’re only safe with me” “other files are dangerous; only mine are safe” should be considered red flags.

In bad hypno play this can also go as far as giving a variety of suggestions, such as “people will think I’m making it up” or “I shouldn’t talk to people” or any number of variations on those themes.

Not setting up safeties

This may seem obvious, but if they don’t set up safeties for you, that should always be a massive red flag. No matter how you’re playing, safeties should always be mandatory. Playing without safeties is the equivalent of rope play without scissors nearby or D/s without a safe word. You wouldn’t do those things, so you shouldn’t play without safeties.

"Limits and safeties aren't for me"

Never ever trance with anyone who says this. If you're into cnc or intense play, the hypnotist should always have safeties set up and always respect your limits. They are your limits. Not the hypnotist's.

Subverting safeties

This can come off as or be presented as fun play. You enjoy cnc/intense play, and it's so sexy and hot to set up safeties and then have your hypnotist subvert them. This is not safe play! This is a way for a hypnotist to groom you to the point where your safeties are no longer safeties. It's a way to train you to do what they want no matter what. It's insidious because it can be fun for a long time. It can feel completely innocent. But eventually they *will* begin pushing you harder and harder into things you don't want, and your ability to say no will be so eroded by the constant subversion of your safeties that you'll be unable to.

Ignoring your boundaries

If you set a boundary any boundary and they ignore it, get out immediately. It doesn’t matter how small. If they ignore one, they’ll ignore all of them.

This can come in a lot of forms, some more subtle than others. For instance, if you set a boundary but they continually talk about it and try to push for it, they’re not respecting your boundary.

“Punishing” you for enforcing limits or boundaries

A fairly common abusive tactic is to punish you in some way when you try to enforce a boundary. This is particularly common with prevalent members of any community, since you might want their attention. Usually it comes in the form of withdrawing their attention, becoming unhappy with you, becoming cold in conversations with you, or similar behaviors. This can leave you feeling like you did something wrong and wanting to fix it, sometimes by compromising on your boundaries and allowing them to have what they asked for even if you didn’t want it.

Don’t fall for this! If they become unhappy when you enforce a boundary, it’s a red flag! If they withdraw from you for enforcing limits and boundaries, it’s a red flag!

If you establish a limit or boundary, hold to it until you are ready to change it. And remember that change should happen without any influence. If you have suggestions active when you decide to change a limit or boundary, they should not accept it until you’re fully back to yourself out of trance with no suggestions active and a discussion has happened to ensure you’re really OK with changing that boundary.

Telling you things are fine when you’re scared or not OK with what’s happening

This one’s pretty simple. If you feel scared during a session, that’s not OK. They might pass this off as “edge play”, but if you didn’t agree to be scared ahead of time or ask for it in the ways they’re doing it, then it is not OK.

Same for if you’re not OK with what’s happening. Any feeling at all of “I don’t like this”, “this makes me uncomfortable”, “I’m scared”, etc., is an excellent sign that you do not like what’s happening to you. You should not feel these things in a safe, ethical trance.

Negotiating under trance or with suggestions/triggers active

Negotiation should NEVER happen under trance, just as it should never happen during a scene. When you’re in trance, you’re not in a state of mind to be able to make decisions or give consent. Any scene should be negotiated ahead of time.

Similarly, and likely more importantly all triggers and suggestions should be disabled during negotiation. If this isn’t the case, you’re not able to give consent. Especially when much of hypnokink revolves around obedience/arousal triggers. Always be fully lucid and unaffected when negotiating.

Heavy resistance play, particularly in many varieties

This is frequently another grooming technique for the express purpose of teaching you you can't resist and building to eventually attempting to break your limits. If you've discussed it ahead of time and have solid safeties, that's OK. But go into this aware of the potential effect of eroding your ability to say no.

Mind! Resistance play can be a lot of fun. What I’m talking about is specifically play that’s designed to make you unable to resist, not simply fun/sexy play.

Dissociative play

Dissociative play involves dissociating your sense of self. Frequently this is used either for that “riding in your body but unable to control it” feeling or to create separate personalities. The latter in particular is extremely dangerous. Both forms of this play can be used to dissociate “you”, leading to a “you” that doesn’t have the same limits, automatically obeys the hypnotist, becomes active without your knowledge to do things like listen to files, or various other things.

If you’ve negotiated this ahead of time, that’s fine! (Though I’d still caution against dissociative personality play as much too dangerous.) If not, this can be a point where things start getting scary or not-fun as you feel yourself “trapped behind glass” or other similar feelings.

Presenting suggestions designed to encourage permanent trance state as fractionation

This can be fairly insidious. Things like counting you up into trance from trance instead of counting you up to being awake. Over time, your mind will learn it never actually comes out of trance. It just exists in an always-suggestible, foggy, obedient state. This is exactly where predators want you, as it makes it easy to control you.

If you find yourself dissociating or having a hard time coming fully out of trance when counted up--ESPECIALLY if they leave you like that afterward--they’re likely working you toward a persistent trance state.

Presenting trance state as not trance

Some hypnotists might have a variation of trance they use and call something else. “Half trance”, for instance, is one I’ve seen used and had several people mention. “You’ve been counted halfway up, so you’re not really in trance.” This is very untrue and another piece of disinformation. In reality, you’re in a very deep, fractionated trance, constantly taken down and then counted “up into trance”, back down, back “up into trance”, etc.

These can take a lot of forms, so just keep in mind that if you’re not fully out of trance, you’re still in a suggestible state. Everything said in that state should still be considered a suggestion. Especially consider attempted negotiation in these states as a major red flag.

Hurting you for any reason

Unless you’ve agreed upon and negotiated these things ahead of time, hurting you in any way is never OK. Abusive hypnotists will frequently frame hurting you as “for your own good” or as “a punishment.” Hurting you can take a variety of forms from causing feelings of discomfort, causing you to feel anxiety, making you cry, insulting you, locking away special memories, taking parts of you away, or even denying you things you enjoy.

There is no situation where hurting you is “for your own good.” If they hurt you at all, it’s a very good sign you should be getting out ASAP.

Adverse reactions

You’ll probably be told these are normal. Just things that happen. These are not normal. In most cases, these are the predator slipping up and you fighting back. They can also be the result of dangerous play, such as dissociative play.

This said, adverse reactions can happen for other reasons in rare situations. Emphasis on rare.

Something to watch for is how the hypnotist handles it. If they soothe and pacify you back to a docile state, that’s probably a huge red flag. As mentioned, the reaction was likely due to you fighting back against something you didn’t like or want, and their soothing you is getting you to let that go or forget what they attempted. In many cases what they attempted will also be passed off as normal and nothing to worry about.

Suggestions like "You can trust me” “you feel safe around me” “you love me” “you care about me”

These can be innocent, but they can also be setting a foundation for the hypnotist to manipulate you as they go along. If someone opens with them, it’s likely something to worry about. If they’re a play partner you trust and has your best interests at heart (a daddy wanting his little to feel safe, perhaps), then it can be perfectly fine.

Always treat suggestions attempting to manipulate how you perceive the hypnotist and what they’re doing as suspect and potential red flags. Especially if they come very early on.

Telling you files are "safe" or"nothing to worry about"

Vet your files. Always. Skip the beginning and listen after. If you don't trust yourself to do that (and I'd recommend not for more intense files or for anything from hypnotists you’ve listened to before), check with someone else in the hypno community that you trust to vet them. @pruningthemindsgarden has an excellent post on this and has volunteered to vet files if needed.

Feeling like you can’t say no

It feels good to let go, right? To let your hypnotist take over? Maybe to get into some fun mind control scenes? And maybe you think it’s really hot if you’re not able to say no at all. That can be fun.

What’s not fun is when you want to say no and can’t. Maybe you feel worn down, like there’s just not fight in you anymore. Maybe you find that when you try to say no, you rub or edge and just make those feelings go away. Maybe when you try to say no, you find yourself right back in files feeling good and happy.

These are all signs of someone manipulating you past your limits. Many of them come from some of the play listed here, such as intense files, resistance play, dissociative play, subverted safeties, etc. All those things can seem fun, but when you start to hit the hypnotist’s endgame, this is where you’ll be. All that resistance play? It taught you you can’t say no. Those subverted safeties? You’ve been taught that your safeties don’t work for this person. All those files? Now you’re nice and conditioned to obey, edge, circle back into the files, or whatever else they’re set up to do. That dissociative play? Now you’re just a passenger in your body.

This is one of the biggest red flags possible, and unfortunately by the time you get here, you’re likely in rough shape. Don’t let it get this far. And if it does, seek out someone you trust to help.

Keeping you in trance when you don’t want to be there

If you want out of trance, you should be able to come out. Period. There is no time when it’s right for a hypnotist to keep you there against your will.

Not always is this obvious either. In some cases, an abusive hypnotists may present it as being for your own good, such as “you need to stay in trance if you’re feeling bad so I can help you”. This is not correct! If you want up, you should be able to come up. Always. If they’re trying to hold you there, there’s a good chance they’re trying to apply suggestions to smooth over a negative reaction to something they did.

In almost all cases, what this should look like is shutting down the trance entirely and talking with you about what happened, what you didn’t like, if boundaries and limits need to be changed, etc.

Consider being kept in trance against your will to be no different from using a safe word and having it ignored.

Controlling what you say to others - especially telling them you’re fine

This is another “this can be fine” warning, but again when negotiated ahead of time. Though if they’re having you tell people you’re OK, there’s probably something bad happening.

I’ve seen this one several times where an abuser has set up situations where the victim is to say only what they’re told. In an abusive situation, this frequently comes as scenarios where people are contacting the victim to ask if they’re OK and the abuser is directing them to say everything is fine, that nothing is wrong.

This can start as a hot scenario, but it’s just another case of undermining established safeties. For instance, if you have someone checking up on you and your hypnotist undermines that safety so you’ll always tell them you’re fine, then it’s no longer a safety.

In some cases this might even come as the hypnotist doing some form of risky play, telling you to say everything is OK, and then advising you to simply not talk about that if you don’t want people to worry.

Using files that direct you to contact the hypnotist

Periodically you’ll find free files with suggestions that involve contacting the hypnotist. Many of these files have fairly intense themes, do not come with any safeties, and only give vague descriptions of what they’re doing. In fact many don’t even tell you they’ll be guiding you to the person who made the file. This should be a red flag! The person creating the file did not have you listen to a safety file first or set up safeties in their files. Instead they subjected you to intense suggestions and then sent you to them. The really insidious thing here being that once that “contact me” suggestion starts taking hold, so are all the other suggestions, making you an easy target.

For instance, one file I recently vetted has very heavy subliminals involving mindless obedience, permanent obedience (red flag!), and not wanting to think--all bound directly to the hypnotist. It also gives suggestions to loop the file (not uncommon), listen to the file when you’re feeling stressed (red flag!), and come back to listen to the file anytime you try to resist (major red flag!!). In addition it anchored an “automatic without thought” suggestion to reinforce the obedience whenever the user looked in a mirror, and it used affirmations to solidify the thoughts in the user’s mind. Finally, it directs the user to contact the hypnotist.

All of this together leads to a VERY dangerous situation. Through listening, you’ve already been heavily conditioned to obey the hypnotist without thought, to reinforce the suggestions through a daily behavior, and most importantly, to listen to the file when you try to resist. This means that when you do contact them and maybe something about them puts you off you’re already conditioned to listen again and again until that resistance is gone. If they’re smart and work slowly and methodically, you won’t see the bad things coming until it’s too late.

(You may think “this wouldn’t happen to me”, but this has happened and does happen to people. Why assume you’ll be the exception? Play safe. Vet your files and hypnotists!)

Intense brainwashing subliminals in files

It's been said by many people before, but it bears repeating. Those fun brainwashy bits? Choruses of voices bombarding you with catchy phrases in sing-song tones? The ones that make you feel so good to listen to and they're not really trance, so it's fine, and you didn't feel anything after a listen or two, so it's fine? Those are slowly and effectively wearing grooves in your mind one listen at a time until they're stuck there. They can and will change your thoughts over time, especially when you have a hypnotist using and reinforcing them.

As with some other things above, these can obviously be quite fun! Just know ahead of time what you’re getting yourself into and be aware of what you’re listening to! Especially if a hypnotists tries to pass off brainwashing subliminals as “safe” or “nothing to worry about”, that should be a red flag!

Addiction or obsession suggestions

These are extremely dangerous. Especially ones binding you to the hypnotist! Many of these have insufficient content warnings, are designed to be highly addictive, and will lead you right into the hypnotist's waiting arms. If you want that, that's fine. But VET THEM FIRST. Very thoroughly. And if they ever give you pause, stop immediately.

The worst effects of these come when the hypnotist inevitably leaves. At this point you’ve been heavily conditioned that you NEED them, and now they’re gone from your life. Subs have had fairly significant meltdowns from this sort of conditioning. Protect yourself.

Any file with “if you try to resist, you’ll listen again” suggestions

These might seem fun at first, but the problem is that you’ll listen. And listen again. And listen again. And it’ll all be in fun. But eventually you’ll want to stop, and the suggestions will have taken hold. At that point, there’s a good chance you’ll circle back into them.

By the time you decide to resist, it might be after talking to the hypnotist and seeing red flags. But you’ve already been listening, so when you try to resist you just go right back into the file to wear your resistance away even further.

“Permanent” suggestions

Outside of POSSIBLY safeties, there’s absolutely no reason to pose suggestions as permanent or to have any suggestions to make suggestions permanent. This is malicious/abusive play 101. If anything in a session or file is posed as permanent, it’s a huge red flag and a good sign bad things are happening.

Suggestion-protecting suggestions

Outside of safeties, there’s never a good reason for these. Ever. Likely by the time it gets to them, you’re already pretty deep in their control, but every red flag you can identify will help you muster the resistance you need to break free.

These come in a variety of forms. They can be as basic as making it feel “wrong” to remove them or making you feel like you want them to more complex things like tying arousal and edging to your suggestions so when you think of them, you edge mindless.

“It’s OK. We made a backup.”

This is classic textbook abusive behavior. It’s designed to make you feel safer. It’s not so bad to do all those risk dangerous things you otherwise wouldn’t want done, because there’s a backup, right?

Wrong. In most cases, this is nothing more than a tactic to get you to push you further. Even if the backup did function (I’ve yet to see one that did), the predator has no intent of taking you back to it.

Another note here. Frequently that “backup” is made after you’re already deep in their control. It’s not a backup of you without suggestions and triggers. It’s you after they have their hooks in you. I’ve seen multiple subs reverted to their backup when a predator “leaves”, leaving them with considerable numbers of triggers and suggestions. In particular, addiction and file-listening triggers that ensure the victim remains bound to their control in case they decide to come back.

“Only I can take suggestions out.”

This is pure nonsense. Subs are fully able to take suggestions out, and saying otherwise should be considered a red flag. This isn’t to say that getting help removing this is bad. Some subs find this easy, and others have some trouble. It’s posing it as something you can’t do that’s dangerous and a red flag. Even in what feels like a purely consensual situation, it’s a bad idea to prevent suggestion removal. What if that person were to get hit by a bus tomorrow? It’s just not safe.

Removal techniques that don’t work