#plotgate

Well, unless Trevorrow is full of shit, his recent interview proves that Palpatine’s return wasn’t a pre-planned fixed point, but it was JJ’s idea. Palpatine coming back was never part of Trevorrow’s script.

I believe the general idea was always to bring the story full circle to one final epic good vs evil fight that would fix the wrongs from the past permanently and wholly and give Ben the chance to *finish what Anakin started*, but perhaps the evil in question was originally conceived to be Snoke, as Palpatine’s ideal heir and successor, rather than Palpatine’s being literally back. 

Rian, certainly not without some prior consultation with JJ and/or Kathleen Kennedy, removed Snoke as an option. Trevorrow was probably given the “bring the story full circle and make it a climax and conclusion to the entire 9 movie saga” guideline, but also had enough creative freedom to... fuck it up and be fired. JJ, on the other hand, might have always had Palpatine in mind in *his* ideal concept of the sequel trilogy’s plot, and once given the opportunity, made it happen exactly the way he wanted it. Or maybe it’s something he only came up with after Rian’s decision to kill Snoke off. 

Lucasfilm trying to figure out the Sequel Trilogy:

Right, I’m back and plan on reopening my asks soon-ish. Before I do that, though, I just want to address a few of the big dramas that unfolded in my absence. This is mainly so that I won’t end up addressing these questions through various ask replies, so if I don’t respond to your message it’s probably because I’ve said the last thing I’m going to say about it here. Onward!

On #RomanceGate

As we have previously established thanks to a tweet from David Kamp with the full, unedited transcript of the excerpt of the interview pertinent to romance, the published Vanity Fair article did not fully reflect what Rian was actually trying to say about the question of romance in Episode VIII. The Vanity Fair article said this:

FIVE THINGS THAT ARE NOT IN THE LAST JEDI

A big, central-to-the-plot romance. For all the fan-fiction fantasies of “Reylo” (an imagined union of Daisy Ridley’s Rey and Adam Driver’s Kylo Ren) or “Stormpilot” (the same, for John Boyega’s ex-stormtrooper Finn and Oscar Isaac’s pilot Poe Dameron), Johnson says that The Last Jedi offers “no one-to-one equivalent of the Han-to-Leia, burning, unrequited love. In our story, that’s not a centerpiece.”

And this is what was actually said between Kamp and Johnson in the interview:

Now, what initially seemed to rule out any inclusion of romance in The Last Jedi actually suggests something quite different - Rian seems to be saying that he was keen to include a big, sweeping romance, but that when it came to it the characters didn’t seem to be in the right place for that to happen. He doesn’t at all rule out subtle traces of romance or flirtation (as Kamp highlights in his tweet), thus the classic ‘wait and see’-style response. 

It is also very important to point out that the references to Reylo and StormPilot were clearly Kamp editorialising. While terms like ‘imagined’ and ‘fan-fiction fantasies’ sting to anyone familiar with all of the misogynistic BS female fans have to deal with for daring to be interested in the human relationships in these stories, as I see it the references to popular ships are simply there to provide context for the mainstream audience and boost SEO rankings. Rian Johnson has been very emphatic about distancing himself from Kamp’s phrasing, and the full quote makes it clear that no specific relationships were raised in the context of the original interview.

So, while I still think we need to be cautious and keep expectations for an overt Reylo romance in The Last Jedi low (as Rian says, there is no central romance plot in his film), I certainly think that the full quote should relieve the anxiety that love and attraction won’t be in play to some extent. Although I don’t think that we’re going to get a Reylo kiss (that’s my opinion re. The Last Jedi - come back to me after December to get my thoughts on Episode IX), it clearly isn’t out of the question that The Last Jedi will progress Rey and Kylo so that they are ready for a full-blown romance in the next film. I can’t stress enough that Rey and Kylo end The Force Awakens on different sides, with Kylo having killed his father and Rey having just slashed Kylo’s face open. They both have huge personal journeys to go on (Rey has to come into her own in the Force, and Kylo has to wake up to Snoke’s evil and show remorse for his terrible mistakes) before they can truly go on a journey together. Essentially, to progress from the current state of affairs to a consummated love affair in the space of a single movie would, to put it mildly, be pushing it. 

Speaking for myself, I would be ecstatic if The Last Jedi simply shows Rey and Kylo developing empathy and perhaps even compassion for each other. Rey has already defeated Kylo in a duel, so their journey together going forward won’t simply be one of antagonism - as J.J. said in his commentary (which was recorded after he had read the script for The Last Jedi), Kylo is “a character who [Rey’s] going to have a very interesting relationship with moving forward”. In short, I have no fear that the dynamic between Rey and Kylo Ren is going to remain static or be less important going forward. Rey and Kylo are crucial to each other’s stories, and we have every reason to believe that Rian is honouring that. 

On #PlotGate

These are the tweets that started the famous #PlotGate:

Now, this actually didn’t worry me at all. But why would I - one of the people who has written thousands of words analysing the minutia of The Force Awakens - be unconcerned by the suggestion that Rian could do whatever the hell he wanted in The Last Jedi? Why am I not freaking out when there doesn’t seem to be a plan for the trilogy?

Well, the simple answer is that I’m not alarmed because these kinds of sentiments are far from new. From the very beginning, the narrative has always been that each filmmaker has a considerable degree of freedom to tell the story they want to tell. For a great explanation of how the early development of The Last Jedi worked, see this quote from J.J. Abrams from November 2015 (particularly the bold bits):

The script for VIII is written. I’m sure rewrites are going to be endless, like they always are. But what Larry and I did was set up certain key relationships, certain key questions, conflicts. And we knew where certain things were going. We had meetings with Rian and Ram Bergman, the producer of VIII. They were watching dailies when we were shooting our movie. We wanted them to be part of the process, to make the transition to their film as seamless as possible. I showed Rian an early cut of the movie, because I knew he was doing his rewrite and prepping. And as executive producer of VIII, I need that movie to be really good. Withholding serves no one and certainly not the fans. So we’ve been as transparent as possible. Rian has asked for a couple of things here and there that he needs for his story. He is an incredibly accomplished filmmaker and an incredibly strong writer. So the story he told took what we were doing and went in the direction that he felt was best but that is very much in line with what we were thinking as well. But you’re right—that will be his movie; he’s going to do it in the way he sees fit. He’s neither asking for nor does he need me to oversee the process.

There are endless quotes from J.J. and Kathleen Kennedy supporting this picture, and I think this is exactly as it should be. Rian is not making The Last Jedi in a vacuum - he is building it on the foundation set by The Force Awakens, and had a say on the development and presentation of that film so that it would weave seamlessly into his movie. Rian even reiterated this sentiment himself in the main Vanity Fair article on The Last Jedi:

J.J. and Larry and Michael set everybody up in a really evocative way in VII and started them on a trajectory.

Rian is insistent on stressing his independence as a filmmaker at every stage because people are keen to paint him as a slave to the Walt Disney Company’s whims. At every turn, he has to deal with people assuming that The Last Jedi will repeat the trick played by The Force Awakens by mirroring its famous and beloved antecedent - for The Force Awakens this was Star Wars, and people expect it to be The Empire Strikes Back for The Last Jedi. Understandably, Rian wants to stress that The Last Jedi is his baby - it’s infused with his own creativity rather than studio notes and nostalgia. 

But, at the same time, that doesn’t mean that Rian can do whatever the hell he wants. I can almost guarantee that Rian would have received furious correctional notes if he had tried to pitch a story where Rey Rey Binks died in the second act. There will be certain strands established in The Force Awakens that The Last Jedi will nurture and evolve, and Rian will be taking pre-existing characters and relationships and building on them further. As Pablo appeased an anxious fan on Twitter:

In short, there absolutely is collaboration - between the individual filmmakers, and between the filmmakers and Lucasfilm. Rian is free to tell the story he wants to tell, but that story has a baseline in The Force Awakens and also has a responsibility to establish a platform for Colin Trevorrow to build on with Episode IX. The filmmakers are talking to each other, and there is absolutely collaboration and handoff between them so that these film will ultimately make sense as a trilogy as well as on their own terms. 

In other words, I really don’t see much to worry about. I have seen nothing but praise for the script for The Last Jedi, and Rian’s filmography amply demonstrates his talent as both a writer and a director. 

They contain a lot of great quotes from production members that they’ve made before and after the release of TFA. I just picked some interesting quotes here and there but I read through them all and now I’m really tired.😴

J. J. Abrams: “The script for VIII is written. I’m sure rewrites are going to be endless, like they always are. But what Larry and I did was set up certain key relationships, certain key questions, conflicts. And we knew where certain things were going. We had meetings with Rian and Ram Bergman, the producer of VIII. They were watching dailies when we were shooting our movie. We wanted them to be part of the process, to make the transition to their film as seamless as possible. I showed Rian an early cut of the movie, because I knew he was doing his rewrite and prepping. And as executive producer of VIII, I need that movie to be really good. Withholding serves no one and certainly not the fans. So we’ve been as transparent as possible. Rian has asked for a couple of things here and there that he needs for his story. He is an incredibly accomplished filmmaker and an incredibly strong writer. So the story he told took what we were doing and went in the direction that he felt was best but that is very much in line with what we were thinking as well. But you’re right—that will be his movie; he’s going to do it in the way he sees fit. He’s neither asking for nor does he need me to oversee the process.” (November 2015) 

J. J. Abrams: “There were things that we – at the very beginning of the process – were outlining and discovering and we just knew would be in ‘Episode 8’ or ‘9’. A couple of those were things I was so excited about getting to do, but realised early on that there was no way we could shove them into ‘Episode 7’. Then of course Rian Johnson came along and is incorporating some of these things very closely to what we were thinking about – and in other cases things that we would never have imagined.” (December 18, 2015)  

J. J. Abrams: “We didn’t write a treatment [for the next episodes] but there are countless times we came up with something and said ‘oh, this would be so great for Episode VIII!’ or ‘That’s what we could get to in IX!’ It was just that kind of forward moving story. But we knew this had to neither be a backwards moving nostalgic trip only nor a beginning of a movie without a satisfying conclusion, and that was part of the balancing act — embracing what we have inherited and using that where and whenever possible to tell a story that hasn’t been seen yet. We also knew that certain things were inevitable in our minds but that didn’t mean it would be inevitable for whoever came in next. When Rian [Johnson], who I admire enormously and adore, came on board, we met and talked with him about all the things we were working on and playing with, and he as a spectacular writer and director has taken those things and has written an amazing script that I think will be an incredible next chapter, some of which incorporating things we were thinking of and other things are things we could never of dreamed of.” “There were a handful of things we talked about that were going to be helpful to him. Some were very easy to do, and some things were things that I didn’t want to do for other reasons, but I tried to be as accommodating as I could.” (December 15, 2015)

J. J. Abrams: “Larry and I had a bunch of thoughts of where certain things could go and we shared those things with Rian Johnson, who’s directing VIII. He had things that he came up with where he asked if it was possible if we could make some adjustments with what we were doing at the end, most of which we did — there were just a couple that didn’t feel right, so he made adjustments — but it was just collaboration” (January 8, 2016)

J. J. Abrams: “Well, when Lawrence Kasdan and I were working on the story, we had a sense of where we thought things would go. So of course there a number of things we use and set up. And it’s wonderful to see how Rian Johnson has taken our story. Of course we had meetings and stuff beforehand, but he’s taken it and really made it his own and continued the story his way. But there are, of course, many things in this film that are very clearly part of a continuum.” (SFX magazine January 2016)

J. J. Abrams: “ I’ve been very lucky to work with people, like, in the case of The Last Jedi, Ryan Johnson, who is a filmmaker who doesn’t need a babysitter. He needs to be given the room and the space to do what he wants to do. We collaborated really well from the moment he came on, but this is his moment to tell his story.” (May 15, 2017) 

Lawrence Kasdan: “[J .J. Abrams and I have] not really [sketched out the next episodes]. [The Force Awakens] sets up a lot of stuff. There’s a lot of people to deal with. And Rian took on that job and he’s going to change it, because he’s Rian. And I’m sure Colin will change what Rian does…. These movies will all be so different. Rian Johnson is a friend of mine — he’s going to make some weird thing. If you’ve seen Rian’s work, you know it’s not going be like anything that’s ever been in Star Wars.” “We talked about [the ending of the new trilogy] — and there’s a certain thing that people who are involved with it feel should happen. There’s a kind of movement that happens. But it’s not in your control. It’s going to veer off with Rian, and it’s going to veer off another way with Colin.” (December 22, 2015)

Lawrence Kasdan: “We didn’t [plan the next episodes]. We should have, but we didn’t.” “What we thought was it was a big enough job to wind up with something we really like.” “It fulfilled those desires to get back to a certain spirit.” “Nothing is settled at the end of this movie, so that suggests ‘Episode VIII’ and ‘IX.’ But we did not say we had to lay that out. That’s someone else’s job.” (December 16, 2015)

Kathleen Kennedy: “George had done a sketch of the story he had in mind, but that was done for the sale of the company. It wasn’t really a document to sit down and start developing a movie from.” (Empire magazine – October 2015)

Kathleen Kennedy: “We haven’t mapped out every single detail yet. But obviously everybody’s talking to one other and working together […] that collaboration is going to guarantee that everybody’s got a say in how we move forward with this.” (December 7, 2015)

Kathleen Kennedy: “[Lucasfilm Story Group head] Kiri [Hart] has been very good about creating a narrative timeline, and having everybody involved in a certain narrative understand where it might fit. That’s become important to the way we talk about these stories.” (December 12, 2016) 

Kathleen Kennedy:  “No [J. J. Abrams didn’t do a treatment for future Star Wars episodes], because at that point we were sitting down and talking about where this might go, even as early on as with Michael Arndt. We were sort of plotting out, because obviously if you know up front that you’re building the pacing inside a trilogy structure, we needed to have some sense of where this saga was going without locking in on things and leaving room for creative development. But we had to have some sense of where we were going.” (December 17, 2015)

Kathleen Kennedy: “Yup [Rian Johnson came in and gave notes while The Force Awakens was in development.]” “Yes. We talked a little bit about [setting up plot points for VIII and seeding things], but we didn’t end up doing a great deal of that — but we did talk about that. And Rian did come in very early and he read, and came and visited the set. J.J. and him had a lot of conversations. I think Colin will end up doing more of that more-so with Rian as he develops Episode IX.” (December 17, 2015)

Kathleen Kennedy: “Part of it is Rian Johnson [to push the series forward in new directions]; I love his talent [and] his commitment to these stories, and his understanding of the mythology that George [Lucas] created. It’s really something that I think you’ll see that he takes these characters [and] develops their complexities. He’s not afraid to try things that move this into a more complex universe, and I think that’s great. I think that’s what [Star Wars] needs.”(April 14, 2017)

Pablo Hidalgo, he of the witty Tweets wrecking Reywalker (exhibit 1), cat lover and Lucasfilm Story Group top banana, was recently at Comic Con Chile for a panel called “Mysteries of Star Wars”. One of our Spanish-speaking members from Reylo Skyforum has made a recap/translation of the panel. Behold the wisdom gleaned from this video.

Pablo (PH) opened by revealing that he wrote the captions that appear under the Annie Leibovitz photos in the Vanity Fair spotlight of The Last Jedi. He went on to scroll through the photos and added commentary about the characters and filming process as follows:

About Kylo Ren:

“Here are the bad guys in The Last Jedi -  Kylo of course, carrying the scar that he got from Rey. Kylo has a lot to prove. Even though the First Order was successful in a lot of what it did in TFA, you can't forget that Kylo was defeated by a newcomer. The Last Jedi starts off right where TFA ended, and he has to go visit his boss. We can all imagine how that's gonna turn out."

Audience member question: “Does Kylo Ren know that Darth Vader turned good in the end?” PH: “I think Luke would have told him. He may only have heard a certain side of the story from someone else, and he decided to choose what he chose to believe.”

About Luke/Mark Hamill:

Luke's gloved hand is touching "an ancient Jedi book" in the trailer.

Ahch-To is the site of the first Jedi temple, but the stone hut featured behind Rey and Luke in the VF picture is not a temple. PH: "The island is home to caretakers, and these aliens live in those huts - so Luke hasn't been entirely alone."

“The space siblings (Luke and Leia) have moments (in The Last Jedi) as well.”

nothing, just that Rian responded to some more questions on twitter relating to the parts in the Vanity Fair article where he talked about how there was very little direction given to him on the plot or story for Ep. 9.

plotgate tag for your reading.

also my post about it early on in reading the VF article

http://reylosource.tumblr.com/post/161024683611/what-the-story-group-does-not-do-hart-said-is

so, you know, i want to TALK TO KATHLEEN GOD DAMN KENNEDY TO SEE WTF IS GOING ON OVER THERE AT LUCASFILM