#original meta

Okay, so I've been more of a "Dean's view of Destiel is like a girl in a homoerotic friendship who dosent know why they like their bestie so much and so intensely," kinda truther, and wasn't sure if Dean was shown to KNOW he loved Cas ROMANTICALLY on screen. But this episode proved to me that he def knows he loves Cas period, maybe more than he understands, or differently, even if he doesn't know that its romantically.

I truly think he was going to tell Cas he loved him. I don't know why else Cas would stop him, assuming he didn't want the empty to take him because he was so happy. Dean looks like he had something else to say beyond what he (verbally) prayed for when Cas says he heard his prayer.

(and it almost sounded like he mumbled 'I love you' when he dropped to his knees. like I know he didn't but I had to pause and rewind).

This is obviously the scene where Roy stops Kimblee from further provoking Riza in Ishval. But when I look back to the history that leads to the moment right there, I realize there’s so much more going on in Roy’s mind as he lifted Kimblee’s military jacket. (For deeper analysis, I’ll be using specifically the manga as reference.)

To understand Mustang’s actions in this scene, we have to look into his relationship and history with Riza Hawkeye. As pointed out by many before, it doesn’t seem like Roy and Riza had a particularly close relationship before Ishval, as evidenced by Riza referring Roy as “Mr. Mustang” at his father’s grave and their exchange there was civil at best. During that particular flashback, Roy famously tells Riza about his patriotic dreams, which, we all know, moves Riza enough to show him the tattoo on her back. Yet, if we look more closely into their exchange, it is highly possible that Roy subtly coaxes Riza into giving the secrets of flame alchemy to him. (@mylieutenant has made similar observations in this post and this. I’ll try to expand a little on that.)

Before we go on, we have to remember that Roy Mustang is a very complex character. Roy cares about the wellbeing of others, but he also doesn’t hesitate to use people to get what he wants. This is the guy who wants to see Edward and Alphonse get their bodies back (or else he wouldn’t have assisted them in their search), but also doesn’t hesitate to hit Ed in the face just to paint himself as a convincing villain after he allegedly burned Maria Ross. So it isn’t too surprising if we see him manipulating Riza into showing the research notes to him. The clue that gives away Roy’s intention is shown in the following panels:

Berthold Hawkeye told Roy where to get the research and, more importantly, how to get the research before his death. I don’t believe it is by coincidence that Roy tells Riza his motives to join the military later at the funeral, which he specifically ends at “In the end, I wasn’t able to be taught master’s secrets”. (And it’s not really something you tell the bereaved family member either, and just after her father died. It does seem a bit out of the blue when you think about it. Roy-boy is impatient.)

Roy’s line in the above panel has two implications: 1) after having successfully coaxed it out of Riza, he says it as a confirmation of his teacher’s last words; 2) it would have sounded innocent in Riza’s eyes, since she doesn’t know what her father’s last words/instructions to his apprentice were. But we, as the reader, would be suspicious, because we know Roy knows about the research and that his teacher’s daughter has it. It would seem that Roy carefully chooses which words/phrase to use and this further proves he has been orchestrating the conversation to his favor. Still, that doesn’t mean his actions are not out of good intention. Roy does want to use alchemy to help the people in Amestris. He said so to his master before he started coughing out blood and we have the entire manga to prove his goal is genuine. But it is also shown in the story how Roy would use whatever it takes to work for that good he envisioned, and at his master’s grave, he needs to master flame alchemy so as to turn that dream into reality, and so he crafted a speech, and he chose his words with care. Moved by his rhetoric, Riza Hawkeye reveals his father’s secret to him.

Then he went to Ishval. His dream went to shatters and he betrayed her trust by using flame alchemy to kill innocents. And she witnessed it with her own eyes as a soldier deployed in Ishval.

Try putting yourself in Roy’s shoes when he sees Riza in the battlefield. He talked her into giving him the secrets of flame alchemy. She gave it to him by showing her back, which doesn’t just represent the neglect and abuse his teacher placed on his daughter, but also a deep level of trust. No woman would willingly show her naked body to anyone unless she trusts that person. Revealing herself half naked to him shows Riza’s huge amount of faith in him and his dream. And on top of that, it is his dream, that dream he shared with her at the grave, that inspires her to join the military. The manga doesn’t specify why Riza would end up being a soldier, but it’s not hard to infer from what is provided in the story. Riza was a girl with nothing. She didn’t have money (Roy had to pay for the funeral), she was estranged from other relatives and the only family she had died. So when her father’s student told her that joining the military can help Amestris and its people, that there’s an opportunity out there to make something of her life and do some good in the world, it’s only natural that she’d believe it and join the military herself. When you see it from his angle, it would seem like he is the one guilty of causing the hurt and suffering she’s experiencing.

Riza’s words here are heavy-laden with regret and guilt. She regrets that she has trusted his words enough to show him her father’s secrets and join the military. She feels guilty that she helped Roy become a murderer and by joining the military herself, she has also killed thousands. In Roy’s part, her question would seem like an accusation: his dream, the one he used to acquire his master’s research and which also inspired his master’s daughter to become a soldier, is a lie. And Roy knows the meaning behind her question, he knows he didn’t honor her trust to him. The carefully crafted words he said at his master’s grave have now paid the price, and the price is a girl’s innocence.

So when Kimblee asks Riza whether she feels pride in her skills as a sniper at war, Roy doesn’t hesitate to step in and cut Kimblee off. He has hurt her enough and if he can stop adding more to the guilt and burden within her, if he can just ease, even for a bit, the damage he has inflicted on her, he would do it. 

Yelling at Kimblee is the least he can do.

Nice URL!

I’m not much of a multishipper, so I particulary don’t ship it (just like I don’t ship Jackie with anyone but my OTP, same for all my favorite characters). However, as a Jackie fan I think romantic Donna/Jackie would actually work out pretty good.

Donna is a very passionate and respectful woman, she loves deeply but doesn’t let it blind her like Jackie’s love may do to her sometimes. They would find balance in each other, kind of how Jackie found balance in Hyde. 

That’s also a clue to know DJ may work out, that Donna is similar to Hyde but is able to express her feelings easily and will express love, say it, show it, openly, which may make Jackie really happy. There would be lots of PDA with these two, I’m sure.

Jackie understands Donna more than she thinks. She also listens to her and is always willing to do anything for her. In a relationship, I think Jackie would always be thinking on Donna before doing things and would like her opinion on stuff, valoring it more than anyone else’s.

Just watched Like Minds for the first time. Going into it, I really did think that Alex/Nigel were like a couple or like murder husbands, and were going to kiss or whatever. That not happening makes the theme of Nigel representing what Alex wants to be even more clear to me. Alex is scared to be what Nigel is, but also needs him to balance out his own impulses that he represses.

Because Alex might be bi and repressed, but Nigel was straight gay, and way more open to affection than Alex was, in his own twisted way... Nigel kills himself, causing it all to implode, and showing how Alex's repressed feelings (not just with his sexuality, but also his violent tendencies) are how the plot moves. I know that sexuality is not a big theme in this, but the tension and queer undertones are hardly undertones with Alex and Nigel.

I dont want to make it seem like repressing queerness is the same as repressing evilness or literally being homicidal. But it does expand on that theme of Alex needing Nigel, even if he doesn't want to admit it at first. Plus, with Alex being totally complicit, and Nigel being a true part of his identity, it makes sense that he could represent not only the homicidal side of Alex, but the non-repressed queer side.

4/5 stars for this on my first watch, but likely more like a 4.5 on a rewatch

For context, I knew about why lamp before watching, but in the context of the show its kind of even more telling.

This is a bit of a long one, but scroll down to the conclusion to see my thoughts.

Dean's secret love of dancing and ballet is shown in 7x16 with the cursed ballet shoes, and comes back again in this episode. In 7x16, he was ashamed of being a ballet fan, the cursed shoes put him in danger for loving ballet, and even are a beacon of danger for him personally (which is some homophobic queer coding).

After his dream in this episode, Dean says that he always thought he could be a good dancer if he wanted to be.

So, he has a dream sequence after which he admits something to himself that he doesn't want to admit in previous seasons, notably in the last season where he is noticeably homophobic... I am not a Dean knows truther, but I do think that the dream means something subconscious, and the lamp being his partner, as well as the song is significant.

This sequence was very much giving hayes code queer coding. Dean's whole character honestly has a lot of it. I would say that his fear of femininity and secret appreciation of it, combined with all his queer movie references do queer code him in a somewhat outdated way.

Dean gains the confidence to dance on his own, but chooses to dance with a lamp. Given that the dance invokes imagery of a time where censorship of queerness was really damn high, with the song being by a queer man about misbehaving, while Dean is doing something that he saw as "misbehaving" when it comes to his image, I think that this is trying to invoke that previous queer coding and show how it ties into Dean's journey.

At the end of the sequence, after dancing with the lamp (Castiel represents light often in the show), Dean climbs up the stairs, showing the progress that he has made. IN AN EPISODE CALLED HEROS JOURNEY.

To me, this seems like showing his character development from 7x16 where he was afraid of showing his love for ballet (and was homophobic lowkey), to this episode, where he is no longer homophobic, and is open to having a partner in his life, even a male.

Also, given the episode prior having him forgive Cas in purgatory in a very romantic moment (and almost tell Cas he loves him (probably in a misguided "platonic" way) in my opinion), this demonstrates his subconscious thoughts to me. He wants Cas to be his partner, whether consciously or obviously in a romantic way, or just in a coded way.

CONCLUSION: This is a dream, so it is subconscious on some level, but to me, this is giving subliminal messaging for his own thoughts that he might repress. He wants Cas to be his partner but not in a way he knows. This also shows how his own mind is full of repression and coding that means a lot that he simply does not have time to unpack, which ties into the rest of his queer coding the audience sees a lot. His internal repression written like the Hayes Code, like how he is written, and the media he consumes.

Still, he has made a lot of progress in his own hero's journey. He is still repressed, but he is not homophobic anymore. He is more open to the possibility of seeing men in a romantic way

Chuck might be controlling him, but he is growing beyond the mold that he has been written into in his own mind. Which also ties into Cas and him rewriting Chuck's plans. He is repressed to the outward world (though we saw his inner thoughts) earlier but is growing to make it less internal now (7x16) because of his own queer love (and identity). He is inching towards queerness in a way that gets past Chuck and the CW.

Rowena telling Dean and Cas that she's picking up on a vibe (divorce) between them and telling them to fix it is so funny. They're only standing pretty close not really close. And Michael is in a relationship with Adam lmaoooo.

"Since when do we get what we deserve" killed me.

In 5x14, as much as I really do think that Dean is so empty that he just doesn't desire anything, I also do think that he is love hungry. The camera showing him when Cas says that is really notable to me. He wants to feel loved because it allows him to be valued, a part of a feeling even if he can't feel.

He's way more flirty with Cas in this episode, including that nod and look at Cas' lips in the first part of the episode. It does seem to be a bit patronizing/jokey, but more playfully flirty honestly to me. Still, its very subdued. His desires when extenuated are still mild. You can also see this with him going after Cas after waiting like 2 seconds when facing Famine most clearly. Thats not much at all.

His desire is just a different kind than everyone elses. Dean never really tries to find love much on the show, and he feels too dead inside to really want to try. Thats why Famine thinks he wants nothing. He's just too damaged to let himself care, and the one thing that he wants is something that relies on others feelings not his. He can't really make people love him, so his actions in response to famine are super mild. The most he can do is flirt and be around and hope that sparks feelings.

I think its just interesting because he could've been overconsuming in whatever could make him feel (or fake feeling) this episode. But he's not.

I love how they try to reheat so many Destiel nachos like Bert and Ernie, Thelma and Louise (with Dean referring to him and Sam), and even the whole like Dean almost kills Cas but can't thing with Sam and Cas, and it still doesn't feel romantic. Half because W***est is nasty and I can never see it in a romantic way, but also because of the context. Which makes it even more queer, because Dean knows how to say stuff in a brotherly way, and yet doesn't.

Dean says that Bert and Ernie are gay before mentioning them to Cas. He asks if Cas wants them to hold hands and sail off a cliff like Thelma and Louise when comparing them. Dean brings up the potential romantic nature of these relationships when comparing them to him and Cas, but not when he compares him and Sam to them. Hell, he doesn't seem to be into the comparisons with Sam and more using them to mock Sam. He asks Sam if he wants to dress up as Thelma and Louise in a joke-y way. Obviously I don't ship Sam and Dean, but even if they were not brothers, these scenes are not flirty in the slightest.

And I mean, the Cas is about to get stabbed by a Winchester but doesn't scenes are crazy different. Cas is way more focused on in the Sam scene, while in the Dean scene it is like a 50/50 split between them. Sam is overcoming a spell and overcomes it because he doesn't want to fail any of the people who he should be fighting for, especially Dean. Cas focuses on Sams own emotions and motivations to stop him from killing him. Not their relationship.

Dean overcomes almost killing Cas because Cas says please.

It is clear that one scene is mad romantic and the other... is not. Sam doesn't overcome the spell because of Cas. These are not parallels that reveal the similar nature of these characters relationships, but that they are two different ones.

So yeah. Season 14 reheats a ton of Destiel nachos. Not sure if its to fight those queerbaiting allegations by showing that "this does not have to be romantic" because its in the context of brothers (which is fucked up because you made obvious queer subtext taboo in far retrospect), or because the writers are just lazy. But the funniest part is that it doesnt work.

Dean knows how to make these references in a straight dude bro joke-y way and didn't with Cas. That makes it even more queer in retrospect lol. The show knows how to make platonic moments even when its like a character breaking another character out of a curse (romantic trope). They just chose to make Dean and Cas be far more tropey and obviously romantic, with camerawork and also dialouge.